A mathbook perspective on non-consumable goods

[Shunidar]

<DIV>With the crafter love from the patch this morning, I wanted to take a relatively objective on roughly how many non-consumable goods the average crafter has to offer the average adventurer.  I will exclude any suggestions or opinions from this post, just rough calculations.  <P><SPAN>This is by no means a X class has it worse than Y class, but I think it does offer some perspective on the archetypes.  The following "guesstimations" are assuming each of the 4 adventure archetypes occupy 25% of the adventuring player base.  This is by no means an account of who has it better as not all crafted goods are created equal.  In other words, this does not take into account how useful made items are or how many of these crafted items you might use dropped or heritage items for.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>How it works:  I calculate out how many NON-consumable goods a crafter has to offer the adventuring player base per tier.  The number underlined and bolded, represent how many good that crafter is capable of offering an average adventurer in any given tier (20-29, 30-39, 40-49).  This makes no calls on how useful that item may or may-not be.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><U><STRONG>Scholar Class</STRONG></U></SPAN><SPAN>:</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Sage:  offer roughly 14 spells per subclass they service in each tier.  That is 50% of the archetypes at 14 spells per toon (14*0.5), that gives roughly <SPAN><U><STRONG>7</STRONG></U></SPAN> non-consumables sages are able to offer the average adventurer.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Jewler:  offer 7 slots of jewlery to 100% of the archetypes and 25% of archetypes arts at ~14 arts per class.  That gives about <SPAN><STRONG><U>10.5</U></STRONG></SPAN> non-consumables per your average adventurer.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Alchemist:  offer ~14 arts per tier to 25% of the archetypes.  This gives about <SPAN><U><STRONG>3.5</STRONG></U></SPAN> non-consumables to the average consumer.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><U><STRONG>Outfitter Class</STRONG></U></SPAN><SPAN>:</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Armorer:  Can offer 7 pieces of armor to 14/24 subclasses (~58%).  This yields about <SPAN><U><STRONG>4</STRONG></U></SPAN> non-consumables to the average consumer per tier.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Weaponsmith:  Can offer 1, sometimes 2 (1.5 for argument) pieces of equipment to 22/24 subclasses (excluding monks and bruisers...and I am unsure about bruisers.  (feel free to correct me).  The weapons that weaponsmihts make overlap with the weapons a woodworker can make, with the exception of scouts who cannot use wooden weapons.<SPAN>  </SPAN>If everyone who can use both (16/24 classes or 66.7%) go half with woodworkers and half with weaponsmiths, that adjustment comes out {(.667*1.5*.5)=0.5} That yields <SPAN>1.38-.5 = </SPAN><SPAN><U><STRONG>0.88</STRONG></U> </SPAN>non-consumables per consumer.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Tailor:  Can make 7 armor pieces for 41.6% (10/24 subclasses) per tier.  Tailors are also responsible for making backpacks, which is 6 more for everyone.  That is <SPAN><U><STRONG>8.9</STRONG></U></SPAN> non-consumables per consumer.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><U><STRONG>Craftsman Class</STRONG></U></SPAN><SPAN>:</SPAN></P> <P>Woodworker:<SPAN>  </SPAN>Woodworkers provide crush weapons to 18 of the 24 subclasses, of which they share the business of 16 subclasses with weaponsmiths (that is until handwraps are properly implemented).<SPAN>  </SPAN>That calculation is all of 1.5 weapons for 2 subclasses and half of the business of 14 subclasses.<SPAN>  </SPAN>So far, that comes out to a bit less than 0.7.<SPAN>  </SPAN>They can also provide a shield to all archetypes (although scouts rarely use roundshields, they will be included in this demonstration (so, +1 overall).<SPAN>  </SPAN>The can also provide a bow to 7/24 classes I believe (+0.3).<SPAN>  </SPAN>Overall, woodworker can offer about <U><STRONG>2</STRONG></U> items to the average adventurer.</P> <P>Provisioner:<SPAN>  </SPAN>They have <U><STRONG>0</STRONG></U> overall non-consumable items to offer.<SPAN>  Not a fair comparison in this model as they are consumables only by design</SPAN>.</P> <P>Carpenter:<SPAN>  </SPAN>A bit of a special case, and not a fair comparison here.<SPAN>  </SPAN>(not that carpenters don’t need love)</P> <P><U><STRONG>Summary:</STRONG></U></P> <P>Armorer: 4</P> <P>Weaponsmith: 0.9</P> <P>Tailor: 8.9</P> <P>Woodworker: 2</P> <P>Alchemist: 3.5</P> <P>Jewler: 10.5</P> <P>Sage: 7</P> <P>Again, let me stress, I do not mean this post as an X class has it better than Y class.<SPAN>  </SPAN>It is merely a VERY rough numerical comparison of about how many NON-consumable goods a given artisan has to offer in comparison to other artisans.  Many of these classes that offer few non-consumables make up for it with very useful goods or lots of consumable items.  I will reserve judgement, however, on the nature of that usefullness in comparison to other classes in this thread.</P></DIV>

[goboy]

<DIV>Interesting, however, it would be nice to see consumables listed as well.  Example, sages provide 7 non-cosumables an 0 consumables.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It would also be interesting to see what percentage of the classes are supported by a profession.   Sages can provide goods to 50% of the player base.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only reason I list Sage as my example - it is the only one that I do know for certain.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[tesarei]

<P>sages offer patterns </P> <P>wich is a consumable. so i would not sa they have no consumable items </P> <P>yes i know subs can now be made by any class.</P>

[goboy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> tesarei wrote:<BR> <P>sages offer patterns</P> <P>wich is a consumable. so i would not sa they have no consumable items</P> <P>yes i know subs can now be made by any class.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Well, consumables I was thinking of would be poisons, potions, food, etc...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All the subcomponents can be made by every class - so there is no real difference there.  And as a sage, I have never been asked for a pattern.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Shunidar]

<DIV>The only problem with trying to add consumables in a "math book verson" of crafter viability is that it is difficult to numerically quantify how many of a certin consumable people will use and how many players would buy, even if the consumable was worthwhile.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The purpose of this post was not to dictate who had it worse than who, but rather, based on what a particular subclass has to offer on a relative scale.  Using this scale, I was hoping people would draw conclusions such as "well, since provisioners have the fewest non-consumable goods, they should therefore <U><EM>should</EM></U> have the most useful consumables to compensate."  I think if you step back and look at classes with low scores here, you should decide "does this class have something to compensate for this low non-consumable score?" and you get a good idea about where crafters stand in relation to each other.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Who really needs a "hex doll" in this situation?  Who already has stuff to compensate?</DIV>

[goboy]

<P>I understand, however, you are only showing one side of the equation.  You are also assuming that everyone who reads the post will know what every crafter class has to offer. </P> <P>And I would argue that the way your post was constructed, it does lend itself for people to make direct comparisons with who needs what - and it is very incomplete.</P> <P>Take jewelers, how much of what they can create is better then dropped/quested jewelry.  That is a HUGE part of the equation.  It matters little if they can make 100 non-consumable items if none of those items are sellable.</P>

[Kwoung]

FYI, on Test at least (last I checked) Tank classes make up almost 50% of the population, with healers, mages then scouts following. That could definately toss your calculations off, as it gives Alchemists what you said was the sage non-consumable market and lowers the sage market accordingly. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, they are interesting numbers, but what exactly do they mean? Without numbers for consumables, subtracting drop item replacements for non-consumables and just flat out popularity and need of particular items, comparisons of the different professions just don't work.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kwoung on <span class=date_text>03-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:29 PM</span>

[Shunidar]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> goboy wrote:<BR> <P>You are also assuming that everyone who reads the post will know what every crafter class has to offer. </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Basically, yes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess the only other thing I can say is that, as I said above, this is <U><STRONG>not</STRONG></U> an attempt to quantify how <U><STRONG>useful</STRONG></U> a crafter or thier goods are.  This is merely a comparison of roughly how many non-consumable goods the average crafter has to offer the average adventurer.  The usefulness of a particular crafted item is a matter of <EM>balance</EM>.  The number of non-consumable goods the average crafter has to offer is more easily quantified and is a matter of <EM>design</EM>.  For instance, you don't <EM>design</EM> a crafter with an assumption that more people will have more fun playing fighters than pirests.<BR></DIV><p>Message Edited by Shunidar on <span class=date_text>03-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:14 AM</span>