Double jumping - concerns + suggestions for devs

[Cocytus]

<DIV>This can only be used while out of combat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How is this an exploit? The only thing this was good for was showing off and exploring places with ease. Not like someone is going to flee from a mob and use it as an exploit to get away.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All that double jumping did was making moving around in the environment more interesting. Nothing about it was an exploit. THe only time jumping was an exploit was back when you used LAG, not ITEMS IN THE GAME to jump higher. You could jump out of aggro, or completely out of the zone for a free evac.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>THAT is an exploit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Reconsider this change. Really. No harm has come from it other than MAYBE on PVP servers. And even there - the simple solution is to make it like Fae Fall. Make it cancel when hit. That would fix any possible exploitation on PVP servers.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Cocytus on <span class=date_text>01-23-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:17 PM</span>

[Cocytus]

<P>/wonders if devs will reconsider.</P> <P> </P> <P>I really think it'd just be a better idea to cancel this change, and instead make it so that the stilt boots cancel when struck.</P>

[Mycka]

hint: Maybe you're not supposed to explore places with such ease.

[JoarAddam]

<P>Probably a pain in the butt on pvp, especially if the other guy has boots and you don't</P> <P>but if someone is losing a fight they could still...</P> <P>/yell ... double jump... off a gigantic cliff...  or up to a ledge that was unreachable for melee combat....</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by JoarAddam on <span class=date_text>01-24-2007</span> <span class=time_text>05:17 AM</span>

[artophwar]

<SPAN><SPAN> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>B/C it was originally intended to make the player automatically fall when hit with any damage (dots throwing weapons) but when you do the super jump it bugs out and nothing can bring you out of the sky and back into melee range. This causes player to avoid being killed by other players in open fields. Also you can hit your sprint button then do the super jump press your sprint button again and you will be moving at sprint speed through the air without loosing any power. This is a huge exploit for classes with 70% or better sprints. The FINAL reason was that you can glitch your way out of any map by jumping to the ceiling and then over the side into untextrued space. This causes you to automatically evac to the front of a zone. You loose no armor, don't get any xp debt, and full immunity on pvp servers. All of these reasons were just side effects of the buggy boots.</SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></P></SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>

[Vulking]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Myckael wrote:</DIV> <DIV>hint: Maybe you're not supposed to explore places with such ease. </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00>clue: Maybe it makes the game more fun and doesn't hurt gameplay.</FONT></DIV>

[Kaknya]

hmm.. wonder if you could use this technique to jump the wall in to unrest...

[JoarAddam]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hammarus wrote:<BR> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Myckael wrote:</DIV> <DIV>hint: Maybe you're not supposed to explore places with such ease.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00>clue: Maybe it makes the game more fun and doesn't hurt gameplay.</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>clue, look at the post above yours</DIV>

[DobyMT]

yes, I wonder /em taps fingers together in a pyramid.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaknya wrote:<BR> hmm.. wonder if you could use this technique to jump the wall in to unrest...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Darenlok]

are u serious?  This was literally one of the very last few little fun things with any flavor left in the game.  Why do you have to go and take anything with any fun at all away SOE?  This is something I would rather quit over than anything else.Quit taking away things that have little to no impact on the game and fix stuff that we are ACTUALLY COMPLAINING ABOUT.And I come from a PVP server (nagafen) and 99% of the player base have them and use them all the time and it ISNT any sort of over balancing effect at all.And for the guy who said that they would be an obvious exploit in pvp if you just /yell well you <b><i>cant</i></b> /yell off pvp combat and just like in pve combat the boots have no effect at all while engaged in pvp combat.Seriously reconsider your nerfing the only fun item left in the game.Darenlok - Fury of <a href="http://www.fromthedeep.net/" target="_blank">The Kraken</a>

[Vilayet]

<P>You do realize, of course, that the only thing that matters to SOE is PvP for some reason.  </P> <P>EVERYTHING that ever gets changed/nerfed/etc is somehow tied to an "exploit" related to freakin' PvP....</P> <P>The PvE servers outnumber the PvP by like 10-1 and yet the entire game revolves around what can be "exploited" in PvP.</P> <P>PvP on a PvE server is primarily limited to dueling guildmates when bored, yet every single player in the games gets to feel the consequences of would-be PvP exploits.   </P> <P>Go SOE !!</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Thoral]

<div><blockquote><hr>BMBurton wrote:are u serious?  This was literally one of the very last few little fun things with any flavor left in the game.  Why do you have to go and take anything with any fun at all away SOE?  This is something I would rather quit over than anything else.Quit taking away things that have little to no impact on the game and fix stuff that we are ACTUALLY COMPLAINING ABOUT.And I come from a PVP server (nagafen) and 99% of the player base have them and use them all the time and it ISNT any sort of over balancing effect at all.And for the guy who said that they would be an obvious exploit in pvp if you just /yell well you <b><i>cant</i></b> /yell off pvp combat and just like in pve combat the boots have no effect at all while engaged in pvp combat.Seriously reconsider your nerfing the only fun item left in the game.Darenlok - Fury of <a href="http://www.fromthedeep.net/" target="_blank">The Kraken</a><hr></blockquote>LOL, if glicthing is the only thing fun for you in the game, maybe you should consider a game like Halo 2 where you there's all kinds of fun glitches you can mess with.  Everquest 2 is not really the place for glitching, in my opinion.</div>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BMBurton wrote:<BR><BR>are u serious?  This was literally one of the very last few little fun things with any flavor left in the game.  Why do you have to go and take anything with any fun at all away SOE?  This is something I would rather quit over than anything else.<BR><BR>Quit taking away things that have little to no impact on the game and fix stuff that we are ACTUALLY COMPLAINING ABOUT.<BR><BR>And I come from a PVP server (nagafen) and 99% of the player base have them and use them all the time and it ISNT any sort of over balancing effect at all.<BR>And for the guy who said that they would be an obvious exploit in pvp if you just /yell well you <B><I>cant</I></B> /yell off pvp combat and just like in pve combat the boots have no effect at all while engaged in pvp combat.<BR><BR>Seriously reconsider your nerfing the only fun item left in the game.<BR><BR>Darenlok - Fury of <A href="http://www.fromthedeep.net/" target=_blank>The Kraken</A><BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>are you complaining about the boots normal effect or the ability to jump into the zones ceiling using a known bug? because if its the former then i would have to say you are wrong since not many people used this ability. </P> <P>The fact is its a completely borken ability to jump that high. Yea i can jump into kelethin w/o waiting for an elevator and such but that is not an intended benefit for these boots. </P>

[lilmohi]

I can think of at least 6 places off the top of my head where you have to do some kind of quest or trigger something in order to move up to the upper level of the dungeon.  So aside from the fact that it can be exploited to bypass content, it generally isn't a good idea to have a method for players to easily move outside of game geometry.  Not only does that make the game look ugly and sloppy but it opens up a whole world of potential exploits.:smileywink:

[Brigh]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lilmohi wrote:<BR> I can think of at least 6 places off the top of my head where you have to do some kind of quest or trigger something in order to move up to the upper level of the dungeon.  So aside from the fact that it can be exploited to bypass content, it generally isn't a good idea to have a method for players to easily move outside of game geometry.  Not only does that make the game look ugly and sloppy but it opens up a whole world of potential exploits.:smileywink:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If any of those zones are like Mines of Meldrath, then those upper levels would not be spawned or they would also be blocked (Vaults for example, although I think that hole is too high to jump). Mines has an invisible barrier you can't get by until  you follow the script. Someone in my group once tried to jump up there to check.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sycosti]

NO NOT FIX THE BOOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span> <span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad: </span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span> <span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad: </span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span></span><div></div>

[seppuin]

<div><blockquote><hr>Sycostick wrote:NO NOT FIX THE BOOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span> <span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad: </span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span> <span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad: </span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span>:smileymad:</span><span></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Yeah i cant run from pvp by jumping ontop of griffon station without them.</div>

[Vulking]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>JoarAddam wrote:</P> <P></P> <HR> Hammarus wrote:<BR> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Myckael wrote:</DIV> <DIV>hint: Maybe you're not supposed to explore places with such ease.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00>clue: Maybe it makes the game more fun and doesn't hurt gameplay.</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>clue, look at the post above yours</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffcc00>hint: maybe under the conditions of PvP, yet PvP isn't supposed to affect PvE is it? And that is where 95% of the player base is.</FONT></P>

[Choombatta]

<DIV>I think the "jumping to places you should not be able to reach easily" comment was in reference to places like Living Tombs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are scalable walls to reach upper areas that you can only climb after completing a "mini" quest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Ice/Flame/Oil walls spring to mind right off the bat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Would the current function of the super leap allow you to leap to those areas without climbing the walls?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If so, then it is an exploit for sure.</DIV>

[Ventisly]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Kaknya wrote:<div></div>hmm.. wonder if you could use this technique to jump the wall in to unrest...<hr></blockquote>Yup, nothing over there except landscape, water and a few crows though.Jump boots movie I made before they removed the fun - <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=screen&message.id=27567"></a><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=screen&message.id=27567" target=_blank>Leaping Lizards</a><span></span>Gaktar Ssssaltytail (70 Guard/70 Provie/350 Tinkerer)<div>Five Finger Discount - The Everfrost Server's Crafting Guild</div></div>

[Gungo]

<P>To the above answer yes.</P> <P>Seriously i am not sure if people realise what they are fixing.</P> <P>it is not the boots normal function of leaping, they are fixing the super jump that allows people to jump Up very high into the zone geometry OR get to hard to reach places.</P>

[Cocytus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> artophwar wrote:<BR> <SPAN><SPAN> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>B/C it was originally intended to make the player automatically fall when hit with any damage (dots throwing weapons) but when you do the super jump it bugs out and nothing can bring you out of the sky and back into melee range. This causes player to avoid being killed by other players in open fields. Also you can hit your sprint button then do the super jump press your sprint button again and you will be moving at sprint speed through the air without loosing any power. This is a huge exploit for classes with 70% or better sprints. The FINAL reason was that you can glitch your way out of any map by jumping to the ceiling and then over the side into untextrued space. This causes you to automatically evac to the front of a zone. You loose no armor, don't get any xp debt, and full immunity on pvp servers. All of these reasons were just side effects of the buggy boots.</SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></P></SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes. I think instead of disabling double/super jump, they need to make it so it cancels when struck in PVP combat.</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Myckael wrote:<BR>hint: Maybe you're not supposed to explore places with such ease.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>What do you think most players would find more fun, the ability to use a double jump and overcome obstacles, and reach nifty heights, or being forced to go around obnoxious walls that are just out of jump height?<BR><BR>I think most would prefer a double jump...Maybe I'm too much of a Mario fan, I like jumping over things.</P> <P>I think versatility and variation is great to have in a game. Removing something that isn't a true exploit kills a bit of environment interaction/variation.</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JoarAddam wrote:<BR> <P>Probably a pain in the butt on pvp, especially if the other guy has boots and you don't</P> <P>but if someone is losing a fight they could still...</P> <P>/yell ... double jump... off a gigantic cliff...  or up to a ledge that was unreachable for melee combat....</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by JoarAddam on <SPAN class=date_text>01-24-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:17 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You cannot yell in PVP.</P>

[Gungo]

<P>Cocytus wrote:</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>Myckael wrote:<BR>hint: Maybe you're not supposed to explore places with such ease.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>What do you think most players would find more fun, the ability to use a double jump and overcome obstacles, and reach nifty heights, or being forced to go around obnoxious walls that are just out of jump height?<BR><BR>I think most would prefer a double jump...Maybe I'm too much of a Mario fan, I like jumping over things.</P> <P>I think versatility and variation is great to have in a game. Removing something that isn't a true exploit kills a bit of environment interaction/variation.</P> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff66>Thats funny because expansions usually have a difficult jump sequence in order to get quest and everytime it happened people would complain until it was fixed. <BR><BR>The staff for a quest on top of a building in maj dul was moved because it required a difficult jump sequence. <BR>The Hoolah starter required a difficult jump sequence. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff66>I thought those were fun requiring me to get it right. These boots will take the fun out of that. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff66>But jumping over the wall to unrest is a prime example of why super jumps are not intended it allows players to jump over geometry to places they are not intended to be. </FONT></P> <P><BR><FONT color=#ffff66> </FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff66>You are not going to win this battle. So i have no idea why you are still complaining. This is the third super jump bug in this game  I can remember. Each time producing a similar thread crying to leave thier exploit alone. Each time it gets reverted to its intended function. The game does not support a design in the Z axis. At that hieght zones are distorted and peopel get stuck in geometry. You will not get this feature until zones are made that support this function. THE END. </FONT></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>01-24-2007</span> <span class=time_text>04:01 PM</span>

[Angelrage]

<div></div>firedawg911 wrote:<div>Whats sad is there are alot of people on the fence on whether to quit this game or not.  You would think Sony would put other stuff ahead of something that nobody really was complaining about and majority of the people in the game actually enjoyed.<hr size="2" width="100%">The boots are fun.  Especially when there's nothing to do, no one to group, and you are ready to log.  At least you can explore by hopping around.  SOE needs to do something to make this game more enjoyable, and nerfing jumping boots isn't it.  You've got about 4 classes that solo PVP and everyone else is sitting around LFG.  C'mon get some dev's in game to see what the real problems are and fix those.  High lvls are quitting do to boredom.  About all there is to do at high lvl is raid, and maybe PVP, depending on your class.We need more raid instances, more contested mobs, and funner abilities, like jumping boots.  We need some reasonable class balancing.  And I do NOT mean nerf abilities other classes enjoy, with the exception of maybe one-shot kills.  I mean scale up the gimped abilities of the other 90% of classes to some degree.  Every class should be able to reasonably solo or PVP.  Otherwise, the game will start to die.  And I mean that sadly, because I love this game.  Stop nerfing the fun stuff people are enjoying.  Just balance so everyone gets a fair chance to enjoy.  Anyone can get jumping boots.  Whats the issue?  Is it the one-shot kill classes who hide in high locations from boots causing a problem?  Then maybe you need to look at the one-shot kill abilities as being the problem.  Not the boots.  Boots actually livened up a dying game.  Too bad the dev's don't even know it.</div><div></div>

[Brigh]

<blockquote><hr>Gungo wrote:<P>Cocytus wrote:</P><P><BR> </P><BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE>Myckael wrote:<BR>hint: Maybe you're not supposed to explore places with such ease.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>What do you think most players would find more fun, the ability to use a double jump and overcome obstacles, and reach nifty heights, or being forced to go around obnoxious walls that are just out of jump height?<BR><BR>I think most would prefer a double jump...Maybe I'm too much of a Mario fan, I like jumping over things.</P><P>I think versatility and variation is great to have in a game. Removing something that isn't a true exploit kills a bit of environment interaction/variation.</P><P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________</P><P><FONT color=#ffff66>Thats funny because expansions usually have a difficult jump sequence in order to get quest and everytime it happened people would complain until it was fixed. <BR><BR>The staff for a quest on top of a building in maj dul was moved because it required a difficult jump sequence. <BR>The Hoolah starter required a difficult jump sequence. </FONT></P><P><FONT color=#ffff66>I thought those were fun requiring me to get it right. These boots will take the fun out of that. </FONT></P><P><FONT color=#ffff66>But jumping over the wall to unrest is a prime example of why super jumps are not intended it allows players to jump over geometry to places they are not intended to be. </FONT></P><P><BR><FONT color=#ffff66> </FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><P><FONT color=#ffff66>You are not going to win this battle. So i have no idea why you are still complaining. This is the third super jump bug in this game  I can remember. Each time producing a similar thread crying to leave thier exploit alone. Each time it gets reverted to its intended function. The game does not support a design in the Z axis. At that hieght zones are distorted and peopel get stuck in geometry. You will not get this feature until zones are made that support this function. THE END. </FONT></P><P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>01-24-2007</span> <span class=time_text>04:01 PM</span><hr></blockquote>All these "people getting stuck in geometry" excuses.I have yet to get stuck. I always fall through the world in Qeynos when the roof / floor is not really there. I do like how the hills above CVH are real and you can stand back at the edge of oblivion and take nice screenshots.

[Koltr]

You are entirely right! PvP action is where the WOW types go to thrash eachother so they quit using exploits in PvE to make the more mature players gameplay miserable. Its pretty hard to actually make progress in a PvP server due to all the fragging going on, and players use anything and everything to thier advantage to cause mayhem. PvP servers only serve to provide a vent to those people who whould rather thrash another player than actually explore the game content.To nerf or completely eliminate an item due to a PvP exploit, begs the question, why bother to ballence at all with all the exploits occuring on PvP servers anyways?There is a certain group of players on Venekor for instance that take great pleasure in camping greenies at the qeynos griffon towers, killing new arivals willy nilly by using the multiple pet lag issue. In order to survive on arrival at the tower when faced with deep orange group opponents, you have to disable nearly every graphic enhancement and sprint away, whilst hoping that either they get disinterrested or somebody else arrives after you. This is just one of the many game features that fraggers and griefers use to make PvP servers a royal pain.Ballance can never be the achieved in PvP because the clients differ greatly in performance on different machines, and since the player toons interact on the basis of client side performance there can never be equity all other factors being the same.Asside from sending identical machines to every player, the game designers can better serve players by making the PvE experience more enjoyable, while letting the PvP chips fall where they lay. IMHO PvP is just jail for the antisocial or mascochistic element and does not provide a valid measure of ballance or equity.<div></div>

[BlackMaw60]

jumping with the gnomish stilt boots was one of the things i enjoyed the most of out this game. it requires some skill to be able to get a decent jump, and the level you can reach with THOSE BOOTS ALONE isnt really all that crazy. PLUS you cant use them in pvp, so its just a means of getting a position to ambush someone. I've had alot of fun fighting with these mostly because just about EVERYONE uses them on my pvp server, so someone will come after you in your hideout. i think it's ridiculous that this fun little bug gets nerfed so quickly, while dumbfire pets and brigand thugs have been used to exploit for MONTHS AND MONTHS<div></div>

[Mycka]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Brigh wrote:</P> <P>All these "people getting stuck in geometry" excuses.<BR><BR>I have yet to get stuck. I always fall through the world in Qeynos when the roof / floor is not really there. I do like how the hills above CVH are real and you can stand back at the edge of oblivion and take nice screenshots.<BR></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>In other words, you reached places you're not supposed to, or you wouldn't fall through the world. Hence the fix.

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Brigh wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <P>Cocytus wrote:</P><BR> <P><BR> </P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Myckael wrote:<BR>hint: Maybe you're not supposed to explore places with such ease.<BR><BR> <HR> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P><BR>What do you think most players would find more fun, the ability to use a double jump and overcome obstacles, and reach nifty heights, or being forced to go around obnoxious walls that are just out of jump height?<BR><BR>I think most would prefer a double jump...Maybe I'm too much of a Mario fan, I like jumping over things.</P><BR> <P>I think versatility and variation is great to have in a game. Removing something that isn't a true exploit kills a bit of environment interaction/variation.</P><BR> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________</P><BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff66>Thats funny because expansions usually have a difficult jump sequence in order to get quest and everytime it happened people would complain until it was fixed. <BR><BR>The staff for a quest on top of a building in maj dul was moved because it required a difficult jump sequence. <BR>The Hoolah starter required a difficult jump sequence. </FONT></P><BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff66>I thought those were fun requiring me to get it right. These boots will take the fun out of that. </FONT></P><BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff66>But jumping over the wall to unrest is a prime example of why super jumps are not intended it allows players to jump over geometry to places they are not intended to be. </FONT></P><BR> <P><BR><FONT color=#ffff66> </FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff66>You are not going to win this battle. So i have no idea why you are still complaining. This is the third super jump bug in this game  I can remember. Each time producing a similar thread crying to leave thier exploit alone. Each time it gets reverted to its intended function. The game does not support a design in the Z axis. At that hieght zones are distorted and peopel get stuck in geometry. You will not get this feature until zones are made that support this function. THE END. </FONT></P><BR> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><BR> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Gungo on <SPAN class=date_text>01-24-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:01 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>All these "people getting stuck in geometry" excuses.<BR><BR>I have yet to get stuck. I always fall through the world in Qeynos when the roof / floor is not really there. I do like how the hills above CVH are real and you can stand back at the edge of oblivion and take nice screenshots.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Exactly you prove my point entirely the super jump function is not designed to work in eq2. It provides distortion, cheap means to evac, pathing issues which can exploit mobs, yes you cna get stuck in geometry that was not intended for collision, access to areas unitended or by skipping content. Whether its fun or not it is a bug. How you handle the bug defines if it is an exploit. Either way it needed to be fixed, it was probably a simple fix. And complaining about the developers fixing obvious bugs is beyond childish. This is the third time this type of bug has come up. it is neither intended or condoned and is fixed swiftly. There is no point complaining about it each and every time it reappears. It is not a feature of eq2. It is a bug that takes deliberate effort by the player to use and abuse. It will get fixed  every time it appears becuase the game does not support this game at that height. Let it go.<p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>01-25-2007</span> <span class=time_text>01:06 PM</span>

[Cocytus]

<DIV>So tell me Gungo....Why exactly would you complain about something fun to use?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just because it's not designed to work doesn't mean it should be nerfed. IMO Sony needs to fix all the "geometry bugs", not nerf boots that add to fun just so they don't have to fix geometry.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lazy way out. And I for one am tired of it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>edit:<BR><BR>A better fix for this....instead of nerfing the jump on these, which is FUN, I don't give a [I cannot control my vocabulary] what any of you say...no reason to ever nerf fun...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, a better fix to this would simply be to disallow exploitation of them. Like a "cheap evac" being mentioned - well, it's just further proof that SOE needs to redo their geometry. It's very buggy - even in some cases without any kind of extra jump.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For example, if you're on a carpet when on your way to SoS in Tenebrous Tangle and you hit this one part of the slope that leads to it - you are shoved to the side and fall off the island. If you walk/run over that exame spot, you pass by, just fine and dandy and intact.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Cocytus on <span class=date_text>01-25-2007</span> <span class=time_text>03:25 PM</span>

[TalisX1]

<div><blockquote><hr>Koltran wrote:You are entirely right! PvP action is where the WOW types go to thrash eachother so they quit using exploits in PvE to make the more mature players gameplay miserable. Its pretty hard to actually make progress in a PvP server due to all the fragging going on, and players use anything and everything to thier advantage to cause mayhem. PvP servers only serve to provide a vent to those people who whould rather thrash another player than actually explore the game content.To nerf or completely eliminate an item due to a PvP exploit, begs the question, why bother to ballence at all with all the exploits occuring on PvP servers anyways?There is a certain group of players on Venekor for instance that take great pleasure in camping greenies at the qeynos griffon towers, killing new arivals willy nilly by using the multiple pet lag issue. In order to survive on arrival at the tower when faced with deep orange group opponents, you have to disable nearly every graphic enhancement and sprint away, whilst hoping that either they get disinterrested or somebody else arrives after you. This is just one of the many game features that fraggers and griefers use to make PvP servers a royal pain.Ballance can never be the achieved in PvP because the clients differ greatly in performance on different machines, and since the player toons interact on the basis of client side performance there can never be equity all other factors being the same.Asside from sending identical machines to every player, the game designers can better serve players by making the PvE experience more enjoyable, while letting the PvP chips fall where they lay. <font color="#ffff00">IMHO PvP is just jail for the antisocial or mascochistic element and does not provide a valid measure of ballance or equity.</font><div></div><hr></blockquote>Is this really our opinion? I find it hard to beleive that anyone could think that is the only reason to pvp. Might it be that people pvp because it is harder to kill people than mobs that are very predictable? I'm sure some pvp because they are antisocial or masochistic but I beleive that the majority of people who pvp do it for the challenge.Silat 65 Fury of Nagafen</div>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cocytus wrote:<BR> <DIV>So tell me Gungo....Why exactly would you complain about something fun to use?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just because it's not designed to work doesn't mean it should be nerfed. IMO Sony needs to fix all the "geometry bugs", not nerf boots that add to fun just so they don't have to fix geometry.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lazy way out. And I for one am tired of it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>edit:<BR><BR>A better fix for this....instead of nerfing the jump on these, which is FUN, I don't give a [I cannot control my vocabulary] what any of you say...no reason to ever nerf fun...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, a better fix to this would simply be to disallow exploitation of them. Like a "cheap evac" being mentioned - well, it's just further proof that SOE needs to redo their geometry. It's very buggy - even in some cases without any kind of extra jump.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For example, if you're on a carpet when on your way to SoS in Tenebrous Tangle and you hit this one part of the slope that leads to it - you are shoved to the side and fall off the island. If you walk/run over that exame spot, you pass by, just fine and dandy and intact.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Cocytus on <SPAN class=date_text>01-25-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:25 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Do you have any clue how these games work. Why in the world should developers spend time making collisions algorythms for the sky. Why should they spend developmental hours on animation for walls we will never see. All this does is increase lag by making the game provide countless useless points to render. thus slowing down performance. No it is you that has to understand this game is not ment to be viewed at that height. This is not a feature it is a bug. The cheap evac is a failsafe. It provides the means for people to evac to the safepoint in zone if they fall through geometry. In most cases you will never fall through the playable geometry space because collision codes are written into these objects. But in instances like people jumping into space and landing in places that were never ment for collision they can fall through world. </P> <P>There are plenty of "fun" bugs and exploits. But they are still exploits and bugs and needs to be fixed. It is fun for me to have the complete set bonus of items while only wearing one peice, it was fun for me to one shot kill epics in beta, it was fun for people to dupe plat. But it is STILL a bug/exploit. Your not superman you can't jump building in leaps and bounds. If you want to play a super hero play city of heroes.  The game obviously is not ment to be played at that hieght. The graphics are distorted, this is why we do not have true levitation in eq2. It is really that simple. The game does not support double jumps. Be happy you have the spring boot single jump feature in the first place. and stop crying about obviously unintended game mechanics. </P>

[Sluglord]

<blockquote><hr>Koltran wrote:You are entirely right! PvP action is where the WOW types go to thrash eachother so they quit using exploits in PvE to make the more mature players gameplay miserable. Its pretty hard to actually make progress in a PvP server due to all the fragging going on, and players use anything and everything to thier advantage to cause mayhem. PvP servers only serve to provide a vent to those people who whould rather thrash another player than actually explore the game content.To nerf or completely eliminate an item due to a PvP exploit, begs the question, why bother to ballence at all with all the exploits occuring on PvP servers anyways?There is a certain group of players on Venekor for instance that take great pleasure in camping greenies at the qeynos griffon towers, killing new arivals willy nilly by using the multiple pet lag issue. In order to survive on arrival at the tower when faced with deep orange group opponents, you have to disable nearly every graphic enhancement and sprint away, whilst hoping that either they get disinterrested or somebody else arrives after you. This is just one of the many game features that fraggers and griefers use to make PvP servers a royal pain.Ballance can never be the achieved in PvP because the clients differ greatly in performance on different machines, and since the player toons interact on the basis of client side performance there can never be equity all other factors being the same.Asside from sending identical machines to every player, the game designers can better serve players by making the PvE experience more enjoyable, while letting the PvP chips fall where they lay. IMHO PvP is just jail for the antisocial or mascochistic element and does not provide a valid measure of ballance or equity.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Well...I don't really know quite how to respond to such a diatribe. I mean, I play on Venekor, I came from WoW (and before that DAOC), and many games before that. I'm a PvP fan, and find that MMORPGs without vibrant PvP communities and content quickly become rather drab and boring. Like many other PvPers, I find fighting other players a lot more exciting and rewarding than pounding on mobs all day long. I like PvE content, I love the look and feel of the game, but in the end what keeps me doing instances and x4 raids all the time is the desire to outfit my character with the gear I need to kill other players more effectively, and to avoid becoming roadkill.Yes, I kill greens (and grays, if they're eligible and in the way). Yes, I camp cloud platforms in KoS when we know a group of enemies (Freeps or Exiles in my case, as I'm a Q) are coming through. Yes, my guild and others will form x4 raids to camp the entrance to an instance to keep another, enemy raid from getting in. We'll sweep through EoF zones catching people trying to advance quests. We'll prowl Mistmoore Cats ganking groups farming the names there. We all leveled to 70 in an environment where ou had to constantly look over your shoulder, where you could never go AFK safely, and where many adventuring sessions ended prematurely because the other side simply dominate the zone.And you know what? We like it that way. We're not sociopaths. We like challenge, competition, and yes, we like to kill you and take your stuff. We also don't complain (much) when it happens to us--that's what makes it challenging. As Qs we suffered under a huge Freeport superiority early on. Now, the Freeps are feeling some of that love as the pendulum has swung. It will swing back eventually. All of us though--Freep, Qeynosian, Exiles--have one thing in commong. Our PvE experience is enriched, not harmed, by the PvP environment. It might not be for you--clearly, it isn't, from what you've written--but to say anyone who likes PvP is some sort of antisocial misfit is, at the very least, silly.My signature seems not to work, but I'm Carnifax, 70 Warlock, Q side, Venekor server, Bel Vaka guild

[Wytie]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> artophwar wrote:<BR> <SPAN><SPAN> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>B/C it was originally intended to make the player automatically fall when hit with any damage (dots throwing weapons) but when you do the super jump it bugs out and nothing can bring you out of the sky and back into melee range. This causes player to avoid being killed by other players in open fields. Also you can hit your sprint button then do the super jump press your sprint button again and you will be moving at sprint speed through the air without loosing any power. This is a huge exploit for classes with 70% or better sprints. The FINAL reason was that you can glitch your way out of any map by jumping to the ceiling and then over the side into untextrued space. This causes you to automatically evac to the front of a zone. You loose no armor, don't get any xp debt, and full immunity on pvp servers. All of these reasons were just side effects of the buggy boots.</SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></P></SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>this make more since now, I can understand why they are removing it now, dam pvp'r where theres a will to explot there's a way......

[KBern]

<P>I think enough very well stated reasons have been provided for both the PvP servers and the PvE servers as to why these have been fixed.</P> <P>To keep calling it a simple "fun" bug is showing some of you are not reading, or not wanting to comprehend what you are reading.</P>

[Cocytus]

<DIV>Not really. Double jumping's fun, period. No reason to get rid of it other than geometry bugs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And guess what we should do instead? FIX GEOMETRY BUGS. Not take away double jumping.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>problem solved.</DIV>

[Choombatta]

Well, being able to 1 shot most Epic mobs would be fun too.Guess we should be allowed to do that also.As I stated previously ( assuming you either skipped over it or chose to ignore it ), there are areas you could leap to with this exploit that would be bypassing intended content.The Fire/Ice/Oil walls in Living Tombs require you to complete a quest before being able to reach the upper areas.With this bug, you could reach those areas without ever having completed the quests intended.Fun is not a reasonable enough reason to leave this bug in game.If it were, then allow us to 1 shot Epics too, because it would be fun.<div></div>

[Cocytus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Choombatta wrote:<BR>Well, being able to 1 shot most Epic mobs would be fun too.<BR><BR>Guess we should be allowed to do that also.<BR><BR>As I stated previously ( assuming you either skipped over it or chose to ignore it ), there are areas you could leap to with this exploit that would be bypassing intended content.<BR><BR>The Fire/Ice/Oil walls in Living Tombs require you to complete a quest before being able to reach the upper areas.<BR>With this bug, you could reach those areas without ever having completed the quests intended.<BR><BR>Fun is not a reasonable enough reason to leave this bug in game.<BR><BR>If it were, then allow us to 1 shot Epics too, because it would be fun.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What do you think the majority of players would get more fun from, the ability to jump onto the rooftops, or having to do the quest to set the walls on fire?<BR><BR>I'd imagine most would prefer jumping, maybe I'm wrong.

[Iseabeil]

<DIV>Jumping out of geography can potentially crash a server. If Im in a zone with say 6 days lock out and we have killed first named and server goes down because someone was having 'fun' and accidently caused a crash, then Im sure not having fun.</DIV> <DIV>For this sort of 'amusement' to be allowed, they would have to redo pretty much every zone in the game.. sounds like fun?</DIV> <DIV>When you make a 3D enviorment like a game, you have to add proper collision detection, and there is no reason whatsoever to add collision detection on places where theres not suposed to be any collision. If an area is unreachable why waste development time that can be used on better things that are meant to be part of the gameplay? EQ2 is <EM>not</EM> made for players to be able to jump such heights, if someone needs to jump that badly there are games that are designed for it. Sure, they could add collision detection to ever single area that isnt meant to be accessed but thats not done in 5 minutes and I think most would be much happier if that time was spent on fixing bugs and adding new content. </DIV> <DIV>Besides that, its an unintended mechanic that is being fixed, and using it is in all sense and purpose exploiting, just like any abuse of malfunctioning mechanics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[thark]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vilayet wrote:<BR> <P>You do realize, of course, that the only thing that matters to SOE is PvP for some reason.  </P> <P>EVERYTHING that ever gets changed/nerfed/etc is somehow tied to an "exploit" related to freakin' PvP....</P> <P>The PvE servers outnumber the PvP by like 10-1 and yet the entire game revolves around what can be "exploited" in PvP.</P> <P>PvP on a PvE server is primarily limited to dueling guildmates when bored, yet every single player in the games gets to feel the consequences of would-be PvP exploits.   </P> <P>Go SOE !!</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well, and you do realize that these are only bug fixes and tweaks, If SOE would have bothered as much in PvP as you seem to think they would have introduced PvP content like sieges and such things.. BUt the fact is they haven't...Everyhing should indicate that the only "real" focus SOE has is PvE</P> <P>I'm on Venekor(PvP) BTW</P> <P> </P> <P>/Rigmor</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Mycka]

Jumping higher than intended thanks to these boots was fun for 10 or 15 minutes, then it quickly got old and boring. Unless you're 12 years old, then maybe it might be funny a bit longer. I find completing quests much funnier and more entertaining than just jumping to reach a place.There's a lot of other fun things to do in this game. Just do them if you want to have fun. Whining about this fix is ridiculous and makes me think those who are upset with it are those who wanted to profit from it, and not just have fun, because well, jumping is not really that funny after a few minutes of doing it. Of course these people won't admit it.It was funny when I could lag the game in window mode and jump higher than intended too, in the first months after realease. When they fixed it I thought it was perfectly normal.Thank god the devs still have some common senses and fix stupid things like it.

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cocytus wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Choombatta wrote:<BR>Well, being able to 1 shot most Epic mobs would be fun too.<BR><BR>Guess we should be allowed to do that also.<BR><BR>As I stated previously ( assuming you either skipped over it or chose to ignore it ), there are areas you could leap to with this exploit that would be bypassing intended content.<BR><BR>The Fire/Ice/Oil walls in Living Tombs require you to complete a quest before being able to reach the upper areas.<BR>With this bug, you could reach those areas without ever having completed the quests intended.<BR><BR>Fun is not a reasonable enough reason to leave this bug in game.<BR><BR>If it were, then allow us to 1 shot Epics too, because it would be fun.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What do you think the majority of players would get more fun from, the ability to jump onto the rooftops, or having to do the quest to set the walls on fire?<BR><BR>I'd imagine most would prefer jumping, maybe I'm wrong.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>A lot pf players get more fun out of playing, not super jumping.  Go play COH and you can Super Jump all day.  It is not made to be in this game.</P> <P>As I said, lack of wanting to listen to the many valid reasons presented.  All you can say is how "fun" it is.</P> <P>And I am sorry, the fun excuse is pretty lame...I cannot imagine you spend all day yelling wee behind your keyboard while jumping around the game for hours. </P> <P>I am sure there will not be a huge influx of cancelled accounts because they fix this bug.</P>

[drealan]

I couldnt agree more...all pvp'ers should die irl imo. Crazed, maniacal, sociopaths imo that need to be shot... lmfao.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Koltran wrote:<BR>You are entirely right! PvP action is where the WOW types go to thrash eachother so they quit using exploits in PvE to make the more mature players gameplay miserable. Its pretty hard to actually make progress in a PvP server due to all the fragging going on, and players use anything and everything to thier advantage to cause mayhem. PvP servers only serve to provide a vent to those people who whould rather thrash another player than actually explore the game content.<BR><BR>To nerf or completely eliminate an item due to a PvP exploit, begs the question, why bother to ballence at all with all the exploits occuring on PvP servers anyways?<BR><BR>There is a certain group of players on Venekor for instance that take great pleasure in camping greenies at the qeynos griffon towers, killing new arivals willy nilly by using the multiple pet lag issue. In order to survive on arrival at the tower when faced with deep orange group opponents, you have to disable nearly every graphic enhancement and sprint away, whilst hoping that either they get disinterrested or somebody else arrives after you. This is just one of the many game features that fraggers and griefers use to make PvP servers a royal pain.<BR><BR>Ballance can never be the achieved in PvP because the clients differ greatly in performance on different machines, and since the player toons interact on the basis of client side performance there can never be equity all other factors being the same.<BR><BR>Asside from sending identical machines to every player, the game designers can better serve players by making the PvE experience more enjoyable, while letting the PvP chips fall where they lay. IMHO PvP is just jail for the antisocial or mascochistic element and does not provide a valid measure of ballance or equity.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Cocytus]

<P>Well...if they were to nerf the spring boots + stilts thing, honestly I wouldn't care.</P> <P> </P> <P>I really just hope they don't nerf the regular jump + stilts, as that's not nearly as high, and I'm yet to see that present geometry problems.</P>

[Wytie]

<DIV>Well I dont know about yall but I thought it was fun as hell jumping over lakes and other stuff on my way to do whatever, the best part was jumping right up to the top of a grif tower.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But most of all I love the boots cause they helped me build my safe fall up....</DIV> <DIV>This alone i will miss, cause i could jump higher then jump off to build up the safe fall ability....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But from a ranged attacker i could see it being used unfairly <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>/wonders off to look for next cool thing.....</DIV>

[SilkVelvet]

<P>well, here's my 2coppers worth.... fix the jumping bug on the dumb pvp servers but don't fix it on the pve servers where all the fun players are. And while you're at it SoE,..... stop inflicting stupid nerfs on the pve servers just because a bunch of pathetic little pvp players whine about the 'unbalance.' I've seen far too many players put off the game or abandon a character because they aren't an asset anymore. Like what you did to the rangers last year, that was nasty, VERY nasty, thankyou for making them playable again, you've made a lot of my freinds happy.</P> <P>I have used this bug to fool around and just basically have some fun while waiting on raids to gather. Myself and freind managed to get to very top geometry of the first big round room the other night, and while the raid was taking a break, we got right up there and I managed to get a close up look at some lovely artwork I had been admiring the other times I'd been in that room, i.e. the dragon fountain heads, very pretty, it's goven me some inspiration for some RL sculpting.</P> <P>I understand the whole 'you're not meant to be there' argument, but as an artist, I thoroughly enjoy getting close-up looks at stuff I normally can't, and it's also fun to see how they have positioned certain pieces of the scenery on the edge of some zones to create the mobile horizons. Like the bits for the castle in NQ, so when you get up there, you see bits of floating masonry and towers and stuff. Lots of fun, and very interesting, Yes, I had dreams of dropping over the wall into the castle grounds and maybe spot the real Queen Antonia. </P> <P>But then, I'm the sort of person that see's interesting patterns and stuff in the game and has to take screenies. Some of it, like the wonderful ceiling decorations in PoA I would love to have in my own house someday, get a nice big glass dome cieling and then paint it in a similar design to what they've used in PoA, that would make a VERY cool observatory. Getting up high enough to get screenies of the bits I like is a HUGE bonus for me.</P> <P>Besides, if it's an exploit that my good freind Thalius can get to the top of the claymore in NQ and threaten not to suicide off if he doesn't get a big enough audience, well, you're WRONG!!! It's good clean fun, and personally, I think there should be competitions for the funnest jumps and stuff, as this bug is hilarious.</P> <P>Silk,</P> <P>&0 Fury, BB Server... bouncing her way through the game and having lots of fun with the buggy boots of bounce!</P> <P> </P> <P>p.s. please please please PLEASE  don't fix them!!!</P> <P> </P> <P>Silk</P>

[Gungo]

This jump is NOT a pvp enable nerf. The first jump bug using window mode was nerfed prior to this particular occurance of it. At that time no pvp server was enabled and they still nerfed the lag enabled super jump. The second version came when Kos came out and people used the gnome stilt boots. The thier version now exploits the gnome tinkered boots. This is not a nerf to the boots normal function. This is a nerf to people equipping the boots in a manner to jump to abnormal and unneeded hieghts.

[Thoral]

So it comes down to this.  Everyone has to admit that this is obviously not an intended behavior.  Some people think that it is a cool effect even though it was unintended and should be left in.  Some people think that since it was unintended and has the potential to be exploited, it will be fixed.  The devs know (if they read this thread) that there is some demand for being able to jump high.I'm sure the devs will fix the bug, but maybe this thread will give them the incentive to add other means of high-jumping into the game that won't unbalance PvP or allow Z-axis exploits.For now, I'm going to go buy a bunch of parachutes and jump off clouds in KoS.  I would LOVE to see a guild parachute in and land on the roof of HoF to begin a labs raid.<div></div>

[Gungo]

<DIV>lol this same thread comes about everytime a super jump exploit makes it into game. The devs did add fun non z axis exploiting jumps w the tinkered boots (not exploiting them).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is a reason you can not go that high on the z axis. The zones are not made for this. In beta people complained that they could not climb the spires in gfay to jump off like they use to in eq1. One developer inquired to the zone designer why there was an invisible barrier preventing climbing. His response was the zone distorts at that hieght because the zone is not made for players to attain that hieght on the z axis. it really is just that simple that area is inaccessible because it is outside the zones playable space. THE END.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>01-29-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:50 AM</span>

[Cocytus]

<P>You're not getting it, though...</P> <P> </P> <P>Nerf the spring + stilts, fine. You still can't go THAT HIGH on the Z axis.</P> <P> </P> <P>I would prefer they left in the regular jump + stilts in midair for an extra boost...or hell, just gave us boots that made us jump higher. The [I cannot control my vocabulary] things DO NOT go that high. You jump maybe 10-15m in the air at most (on the regular + stilts. Spring + stilts is like 50m). This isn't like the original jump exploit where you jumped 3490752093549812517854m into the air, and it got higher the longer you froze the window. This is different.<BR></P> <P>I just like being able to jump extra high, but not ridiculously high like the original bug. Right now I'd be content with just the 10m or so jump you get from regular jump + stilts.</P> <P>I'll agree that it's not working as intended...but they shouldn't take it away anyway. If they do...</P> <P>Dammit. nerf em if you will but give us some new boots that let us jump HIGHER! :p</P>

[DarkMirrax]

well if you take away the double jump can you also remove fay glide please because that can also be used to reach places your not meant too and FD and invis .... etc etc etc etc etc

[DarkMirrax]

<P>changes like this are a bit daft imo  , nurf them in pvp sure its pvp after all but why bother in pve ? surly work on things that are actually broken ?</P> <P> </P>

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DarkMirrax wrote:<BR> well if you take away the double jump can you also remove fay glide please because that can also be used to reach places your not meant too and FD and invis .... etc etc etc etc etc<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>We are not talking about class given abilities that are planned for by the designers, we are talking about a bug that lets you exploit geometry.</P> <P>Try to stay with the conversation please though it may be difficult for you.</P>

[Choombatta]

<P>You can use Feign Death and Invisibility to reach areas not meant to be reached without completing a quest first?!?!</P> <P>Grasping at straws now aren't we?</P>