Thanks for the feedback.

[Glendral]

<div></div><p><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>Greetings all,</span></font></p><p><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>            I want to thank you all for your feedback and assistance with the playtest that we held on the Test server. We had some internal discussions and have made a few decisions that I thought I would share with you.</span></font></p><ul><li><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span> </span></font><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in. We still may remove them in the future but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that. The devices that are in the main city zones are staying in as well.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>We are looking at a lot of the feedback we got from the playtest, /feedback, and the boards for possible implementation. <span class="810242900-27092006"> Among the topics we're discussing include adding</span><span class="810242900-27092006"> </span>more bankers and brokers in other zones, cost of the tradeskill devices you can purchase for your house, etc.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>I have added a Work Order Clipboard that you will be able to purchase from either the Coalition of Tradesfolk or the Ironforge Exchange once you have amiable <span class="810242900-27092006">faction with </span>either of them. </span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>I added/fixed a number of merchants that were missing tradeskill fuel in the city zones.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>I know about the problem in the Clothespinners, in North Qeynos, with the collision between the desk and the loom,<span class="810242900-27092006"> and</span> this has already been fixed internally. Unfortunately since <span class="810242900-27092006">this fix requires changes to art assets that are already locked for this update</span>, we won’t be able to get it out <span class="810242900-27092006">until </span>Game Update <span class="810242900-27092006">29</span>.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>The wholesalers on the Queen<span class="810242900-27092006">'</span>s Colony and the Outpost of the Overlord will once again correctly begin you on your path as a crafter.</span></font></li></ul><p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span> <font color="#ffffff">Thank you all again for your assistance and feedback.</font></span></font></p><div></div>

[Piltow]

Thank you for the quick reply to the feedback.

[Ceruline]

Glendral, you must be miscommunicating. After all, I have it on reliable authority that our feedback *never* makes a difference.You just can't go around breaking the rules like this.<div></div>

[EtoilePirate]

Hey, maybe now the people who say SOE never listens to the players will shut the heck up!(Nah.)In all seriousness though, thanks for the response to the playtest.  I know a lot of people, myself among them, really wanted to be out there doing what Test does best, and it's nice to see the response.<div></div>

[Xalmat]

And who says the dev team doesn't listen to feedback?

[selch]

<blockquote><hr>Glendral wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>Greetings all,</span></font></p><p><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>            I want to thank you all for your feedback and assistance with the playtest that we held on the Test server. We had some internal discussions and have made a few decisions that I thought I would share with you.</span></font></p><ul><li><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span> </span></font><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in. We still may remove them in the future but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that. The devices that are in the main city zones are staying in as well.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>We are looking at a lot of the feedback we got from the playtest, /feedback, and the boards for possible implementation. <span class="810242900-27092006"> Among the topics we're discussing include adding</span><span class="810242900-27092006"> </span>more bankers and brokers in other zones, cost of the tradeskill devices you can purchase for your house, etc.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>I have added a Work Order Clipboard that you will be able to purchase from either the Coalition of Tradesfolk or the Ironforge Exchange once you have amiable <span class="810242900-27092006">faction with </span>either of them. </span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>I added/fixed a number of merchants that were missing tradeskill fuel in the city zones.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>I know about the problem in the Clothespinners, in North Qeynos, with the collision between the desk and the loom,<span class="810242900-27092006"> and</span> this has already been fixed internally. Unfortunately since <span class="810242900-27092006">this fix requires changes to art assets that are already locked for this update</span>, we won’t be able to get it out <span class="810242900-27092006">until </span>Game Update <span class="810242900-27092006">29</span>.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>The wholesalers on the Queen<span class="810242900-27092006">'</span>s Colony and the Outpost of the Overlord will once again correctly begin you on your path as a crafter.</span></font></li></ul><p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span> <font color="#ffffff">Thank you all again for your assistance and feedback.</font></span></font></p><div></div><hr></blockquote>Thank you so much for understanding the Tradeskill communities concerns and act for it.

[Goldenflig]

<DIV>Thank you for asking for feedback during playtest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you for sharing the results of the internal discussions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Understand that the TS instances may be removed in the future, and hoping the same amount of cooperative spirit exists (from players and developers both) to help implement whatever the new plan may be then. :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Goldenflight on <span class=date_text>09-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:03 PM</span>

[Mheryl]

Thank you SO much for making it possible for US to make a difference.  We love our tradeskills, and we should always be the judge if a major change like that should be implemented or not, and what changes should be made.  I know you guys know what you're doing, but if you don't craft 24/7 like most of us do, it's easy to miss what's important to US as crafters!  Great news on all fronts today =)

[NiamiDenMother]

Many thanks for taking the time to listen, and to communicate, especially with such good news!  It is greatly appreciated.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Sarkoris]

<DIV>Great news all around, both on listening to the feedback and communicating so well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sark.</DIV>

[Lyriel]

<P>Glendral,</P> <P>Thank you for taking the time to truly listen to us, offering suggestions, quickly passing on the decisions once made, and letting us see the shape of things to come while acknowledging that there has to be more work before removing the tradeskill instances. That you really communicate <EM>with</EM> us, not just talk <EM>to</EM> us, is very much appreciated. It is plain that you care about the people involved in the game you help create, and are willing to go beyond just 'doing your job.' It makes me hopeful that, if I must give up my beloved Charter of the Truthbringer, I will have something suitable and workable in its stead. </P> <P>Lyriel</P>

[Eriol]

<blockquote><hr>Glendral wrote:<ul><li>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in. We still may remove them in the future but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that. The devices that are in the main city zones are staying in as well.</li></ul><hr></blockquote>This is good, and bad. Good that the instances are coming back, but it worries me that you think you can EVER take out the instances. Just when you're discussing it, remember this: it's not the AVERAGE load you need to worry about, it's the peak, and how often that peak happens. Not to mention how lagged the city zones are when they're nearly EMPTY! I have a couple of characters on Test, and it's bad enough WITHOUT lots of people around.<blockquote><hr>Glendral wrote:<ul><li>I have added a Work Order Clipboard that you will be able to purchase from either the Coalition of Tradesfolk or the Ironforge Exchange once you have amiable faction with either of them.</li></ul><hr></blockquote>Clarification: will this be able to give you the quests too, or just the "start the timer" event? Great to be able to craft from home with timer, but kinda "blah" to have to zone a lot to get and finish the quests too. I don't know how hard this would be but the mechanisms are already there if you really wanted to do it (there are item-triggered quests already, and "coin from the sky" quest rewards as well). Zoning is tough on some people's computers. I'm not one of them, but I know there are a number of people for which that IS the case, and so I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to at least look in to it.Otherwise, glad you re-thought the idea of canning the instances. It would be a disaster without them.

[Looker1010]

A huge thank you, to you Glendral, and Sony. The crafters spoke clearly and with one voice and you listened to us. I could write thousands of words but the two sentences above say it all. Thanks again!

[FaerieKiss]

<DIV>Thank you Glendral, for listening *hugs*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jaina/Hildy/Souki/Hexia/Lilene/Nira of Test Server</DIV>

[FreezerBurn]

Thank you for working with the crafting community!  My question now is with the new crafting machines staying in the city zones, are there any plans now to 'finish' out some of the city zones?  Such as adding all the machines to all the city zones and adding banking support to each as well.  I do hope so since I would love to make the Elddar Grove my crafting haven if all the machines and trainers were there as well as a banker.  Thanks once again for all of your work!<div></div>

[Lakaah]

Thanks for listening to our feedback and concerns.<div></div>

[DangerousOne]

I was impressed at the time of the test with Glendral's willingness to take feedback. It is encouraging to see that the provided feedback has been taken on board. I am especially pleased as the current solution is exactly the one I wanated to see, the new stations plus retention of the instances; giving us as a choice. With the city stations available as an option, I may well craft in them from time to time. I also like the idea of a work order clipboard for our houses.Thank you SoE for listening. Having created a couple of characters to look at this new changes and seeing that feedback can make a difference, I am very motivated to continue to keep going on the test server.

[Elorah]

<DIV>THANKYOU!!!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now we only need a fuel vendor for the house and I will be all set...  :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I am too happy right now to really think of that.</DIV>

[ZeyGnome]

<P>Thank you Glendral.  This sounds like a much more sensible approach.  </P> <P> </P>

[Lizziebeth]

Thank you Glendral for getting back to us so quickly.  Thank you also for taking the time after the test last night to get our opinions on things.<div></div>

[Kethaera]

Glendral,Thank you SO MUCH for listening to us and passing on our concerns! This means so much to so many people that SOE was willing to back down on a decision for the good of the community. I know it's been a tough position for you personally, and unfortunately you took a lot of abuse at the hands of unhappy people during the playtest, but you handled it remarkably well and you went to bat for us. It's been an honor working with you on the playtest, and thanks again for being willing to listen to us and respond so quickly.~Kethaera<div></div>

[Rijacki]

WOW!  totally not the response I expected even in my most optimistic!  Thank you! Yes, take more time to plan how to encourage more interation between us all to build a better whole community. <div></div>

[SilkVelvet]

<DIV>Thankyou,</DIV> <DIV>               My boyfreind was very disturbed at the TS instances disappearing, and the thought of having to craft in the city zones.... he said he's cancel his account first, so he's going to be very happy.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>               The clip board thing sounds interesting.... and dropping the price of the ts machines.... ultra cool, what about lowering the guild level required or making it faction based, you know, max out your faction with the tradeskill societies to be able to buy the elaborate.... I think that would be more appropriate as they are crafting tools....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>               With you mentioning adding banker to various places.... <quote> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>We are looking at a lot of the feedback we got from the playtest, /feedback, and the boards for possible implementation. <SPAN class=810242900-27092006> Among the topics we're discussing include adding</SPAN><SPAN class=810242900-27092006> </SPAN>more bankers and brokers in other zones, cost of the tradeskill devices you can purchase for your house, etc. <end quote></SPAN></FONT></LI> <DIV>those 'other zones' wouldn't happen to include the TS instances themselves would they?  If they do, don't forget the mailbox too!!! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's another suggestion, what about adding crafting stations in the Maj'Dul courts? there's not really much else for seasoned players in those now they've done the quests there, and there are some players that have made Maj'Dul thier home, so having somewhere to craft there would be useful oh, but then there's have to be a crafting association for MD, and all the trappings to go with it.... hmmmm that would be cool</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>                    Anyway, thanks again, </DIV> <DIV>                                 </DIV> <DIV>                                       Silk</DIV>

[Writer Cal]

Thanks for listening to our concerns and keeping us updatesd on the decisions.  I very much appreciate it.  It looks like we're headed towards some great changes that leave people plenty of options.  :smileyvery-happy:<p>Message Edited by Writer Cal on <span class=date_text>09-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:18 PM</span>

[EQ2Playa432]

I would like to add my thanks as well. <div></div>

[Kimage]

<DIV>WOOT!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you very much!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the lag is my main concern --- about this. that is all</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks again for getting back to us on this!!!</DIV>

[Zaldor]

<P>Thank you for the response.</P> <P>I would also like to thank the community for letting the devs know how they felt about this situation.  Without the uproar I'm afraid these changes would have all gone through.</P> <P> </P> <P>Zaldor - I play Everquest2</P>

[illaria]

Thank you Thank you Thank you for pushing back the changes after realizing how unhappy it was making people. <div></div>

[Granite monkey]

<P>  Thank you very Much for the chance to voice our concerns about the recent changes you have implimented. I think it is long past due to incorperate bankers and brokers in all city zones. It normally makes no differance to me inside or out as long as There are resources close by.  I think you guys do a great job. And Im glad there are devs that do care.  Thumbs up to you Glendral. :manvery-happy:</P> <P>                                 </P>

[Eueadan]

<DIV>More importantly, thank you for listening Glendral.  I think leaving the devices in the main city zones + leaving some of the instances is the best compromise implementation.  I think leaving options open to allow players to do what THEY want to do in their adventures is the best strategy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you!</DIV>

[Prrasha]

...what they said. Much thanks for listening and acting on the results of the playtest and the community's feedback.

[Jackula]

Thank you for posting a response so soon after test.  It eases my immediate concerns and I appreciate not having to wait a long time for that.  I look forward to testing the next round of changes when they come.<div></div>

[Heattanu]

<P>I continue to be impressed by the SOE dev responsiveness to reasonable player concerns. I feel optimistic that they will do right by tradeskillers.</P> <P>A lot of credit is also due to the tradeskill community for voicing a united and constructive  (mostly) protest against the initial changes. I was very impressed by the turnout at the playtest. It shows me that tradeskilling has really been revitalized by the revamp and has good player participation. Hopefully, this will convince the devs to put more effort into this area of the game.</P>

[Purr]

<P>Just one Word which says it all</P> <P>THANKS !</P> <P>Purr~</P>

[zdr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Heattanu wrote:<BR> <P>I continue to be impressed by the SOE dev responsiveness to reasonable player concerns. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I am not... althought this is the first time I`m happy with the way things were handled.<BR>

[SweetiePie]

<P>Thank you so much for listening and leaving our ts instances in.</P> <P>thanks!</P> <P>Linnette</P> <P>(the much happier templar)</P> <P> </P> <P>p.s.  Oh, and I forgot to say that it would be great if the tradeskill devices were lowered in cost and status.  </P><p>Message Edited by SweetiePie on <span class=date_text>09-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:37 AM</span>

[Cybrdroyd]

Alright...thanks.  Now don't get cocky!  :smileyvery-happy:

[Bridgeplay]

<DIV>Does this mean that the tradeskill instances in the home areas (Baubbleshire, etc) will be taken away, either eventually or as soon as is practical?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Bridgeplay on <span class=date_text>09-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:39 AM</span>

[Ishetig]

Thanks for listening to us, and leaving us with a way to keep crafting fun and in the game.  <div></div>

[Finora]

<DIV>/hug</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you Glendral, this is good news.</DIV>

[Dynaen]

<DIV>I never got a chance to post my thoughts, but I'm glad to see the instances are currently not being removed.  I'll try to provide some constructive critisism and ideas for the future.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) If you want us out of our dungeons to show off our wares, there needs to be a "Person crafted <insert item name here with link>" in some sort of chat window.  Like Bobsmith crafted pristine imbued xegonite short sword.  I started playing here at launch, left for WoW for about a year and half, came back here about 4-5 months ago.  I remember in WoW if you happened to be running by a big city and saw someone craft something, especially something that required a rare recipe, you thought wow, soandso has that rare recipe and just made that rare item!  I doubt anyone is gonna go stand by a forge and check out a cluster of horse butt and ask hey can anyone make x?  Its not interesting to watch people craft.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) On that note, its absurdly easy to find anyone to make anything currently.  Almost everyone has every single recipe.  Any 70th level crafting class is more than likely going to have what someone needs made.  There is no variety whatsoever.  In WoW, there were rare recipe drops, some extremely rare, or recipes that required you to get extremely high reputation/faction with a certain group to get.  Things like that would make crafting much more interesting and add variety.  I'd love to see some difficult or time consuming recipes put into the game that rival raid gear, which WoW did, the items just took a LOT of components.  Instead of 1 xegonite cluster, require an amazing item to take 50 xegonite clusters, a few raid drops, and a slew of other materials, and make the recipe a fabled drop or something.  Honestly crafting while easy and somewhat entertaining, is flavorless and dull with the lack of variety in items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) One of biggest irritations with the removal of the specialized tradeskill instances a few updates ago was being stuck in the same instance with people who had no idea how to craft.  Coming with that (all my characters are Freeport based), I'm constantly getting stuck unable to go through doorways because people have their pets in doorways, along with a constant chorus of "OOH, AAH, UHHH, ARGH!" because people have no idea how to use the counter icons properly.  I miss my old quiet outfitter instance when I'd see 2-3 people at most in there.  I can't imagine the mess that removing the instances entirely would make, let alone the aggravation of getting stuck and hearing nonstop noises of people taking damage or necros doing mana drain rituals on their pets while crafting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4) While I admit a crafting dungeon doesn't make much sense, making the dungeons actual buildings would be a bit nicer and more flavorful.  Put them above ground and not in a basement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At any rate, thanks for listening to the players on this one.</DIV>

[Uther2000]

<div><blockquote><hr>Glendral wrote:<div></div><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span> </span></font><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in. We still may remove them in the future but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that . . </span></font><div></div><hr></blockquote>Maybe they should consider one zone for each city for tskilling, accessible from any bell in the starting zones as well as the city zones.Who knows why SOE is going this route anyway, I have not found a clearly defined reason yet.</div>

[Littleflame]

I have been following the progress of this, and I must say this is very good news.Thank you for listening the community, at least for now.68 Provisioner59 Carpenter

[Goldenflig]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dynaen wrote:<BR> <DIV>I never got a chance to post my thoughts, but I'm glad to see the instances are currently not being removed.  I'll try to provide some constructive critisism and ideas for the future.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) If you want us out of our dungeons to show off our wares, there needs to be a "Person crafted <insert item name here with link>" in some sort of chat window.  Like Bobsmith crafted pristine imbued xegonite short sword.  I started playing here at launch, left for WoW for about a year and half, came back here about 4-5 months ago.  I remember in WoW if you happened to be running by a big city and saw someone craft something, especially something that required a rare recipe, you thought wow, soandso has that rare recipe and just made that rare item!  I doubt anyone is gonna go stand by a forge and check out a cluster of horse butt and ask hey can anyone make x?  Its not interesting to watch people craft.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>2) On that note, its absurdly easy to find anyone to make anything currently.  Almost everyone has every single recipe.  Any 70th level crafting class is more than likely going to have what someone needs made.  There is no variety whatsoever.  In WoW, there were rare recipe drops, some extremely rare, or recipes that required you to get extremely high reputation/faction with a certain group to get.  Things like that would make crafting much more interesting and add variety.  I'd love to see some difficult or time consuming recipes put into the game that rival raid gear, which WoW did, the items just took a LOT of components.  Instead of 1 xegonite cluster, require an amazing item to take 50 xegonite clusters, a few raid drops, and a slew of other materials, and make the recipe a fabled drop or something.  Honestly crafting while easy and somewhat entertaining, is flavorless and dull with the lack of variety in items.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) One of biggest irritations with the removal of the specialized tradeskill instances a few updates ago was being stuck in the same instance with people who had no idea how to craft.  Coming with that (all my characters are Freeport based), I'm constantly getting stuck unable to go through doorways because people have their pets in doorways, along with a constant chorus of "OOH, AAH, UHHH, ARGH!" because people have no idea how to use the counter icons properly.  I miss my old quiet outfitter instance when I'd see 2-3 people at most in there.  I can't imagine the mess that removing the instances entirely would make, let alone the aggravation of getting stuck and hearing nonstop noises of people taking damage or necros doing mana drain rituals on their pets while crafting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4) While I admit a crafting dungeon doesn't make much sense, making the dungeons actual buildings would be a bit nicer and more flavorful.  Put them above ground and not in a basement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At any rate, thanks for listening to the players on this one.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Don't want to interrupt the wonderful flow of this thread, I feel compelled to respond to this idea with a huge word of caution: don't do it.</P> <P> </P> <P>WoW crafting requires 2 things: need to get to level 40 in experience in order to attain the highest level of crafting (level 300) and money.  Getting to 40 is relatively easy in a game where the max level (currently) is level 60. Getting to level 300 in crafting is, I'm sorry, a joke. All it takes is money, material from the AH and 2 days of crafting max. I've rolled, gotten to level 300 crafting, deleted the profession and started over for a total of 13 times. Crafting there, like the level 1-59 experience is easy.</P> <P>Crafting after that becomes  like the end game in WoW: hitting a glass ceiling.  Those rare patterns and materials often require raid groups. The threshold for getting faction is a horrible grindfest. never mind the Thorium Brotherhood Weapon/Armor  Crafting for Dark Iron items took almost a full group to fight through an instance (BRD) to get to the forge to be able to craft. Btw, it helped if the crafter was level 60 (highest level of adventure in the game).</P> <P>What this meant was: (A) Raid guilds had the edge on crafters, raw materials, and setting prices at the Auction House. (B) small guilds under 40 would have a difficult time helping crafters  (C) Casual players and solo players had an extremely hard time attempting to reach those levels, if it was even possible for some of them.</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#00ccff>The crafting in EQ2 takes an approach that was best-practice in other games: crafters do NOT have to be adventurers, nor raiders in order to progress and make meaningful contribution to their community.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00ccff>Having said that: if you'd like crafters to find a way to achieve rare or difficult  patterns THROUGH plying their trade (e.g. by crafting) let's talk.</FONT> :smileyhappy:</P> <P> </P> <P>/turns thread back</P> <P>/apologizes for the interrupt again</P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Goldenflight on <span class=date_text>09-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:33 PM</span>

[Kordran]

<P>Thank you, for both listening to us and to letting us know what's going on.</P> <P>You guys have made the right decision here. And I personally have no problem with the idea that eventually tradeskill instances may be removed, as long as the infrastructure can handle it and it significantly <EM>improves</EM> the gaming experience for crafters (in other words, not simply making a change for the sake of change, etc.)</P>

[wullailhuit]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Glendral wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>Greetings all,</span></font></p><p><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>            I want to thank you all for your feedback and assistance with the playtest that we held on the Test server. We had some internal discussions and have made a few decisions that I thought I would share with you.</span></font></p><ul><li><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span> </span></font><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in. We still may remove them in the future but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that. The devices that are in the main city zones are staying in as well.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>We are looking at a lot of the feedback we got from the playtest, /feedback, and the boards for possible implementation. <span class="810242900-27092006"> Among the topics we're discussing include adding</span><span class="810242900-27092006"> </span>more bankers and brokers in other zones, cost of the tradeskill devices you can purchase for your house, etc.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>I have added a Work Order Clipboard that you will be able to purchase from either the Coalition of Tradesfolk or the Ironforge Exchange once you have amiable <span class="810242900-27092006">faction with </span>either of them. </span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>I added/fixed a number of merchants that were missing tradeskill fuel in the city zones.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>I know about the problem in the Clothespinners, in North Qeynos, with the collision between the desk and the loom,<span class="810242900-27092006"> and</span> this has already been fixed internally. Unfortunately since <span class="810242900-27092006">this fix requires changes to art assets that are already locked for this update</span>, we won’t be able to get it out <span class="810242900-27092006">until </span>Game Update <span class="810242900-27092006">29</span>.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>The wholesalers on the Queen<span class="810242900-27092006">'</span>s Colony and the Outpost of the Overlord will once again correctly begin you on your path as a crafter.</span></font></li></ul><p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span> <font color="#ffffff">Thank you all again for your assistance and feedback.</font></span></font></p><div></div><hr></blockquote>Oooh Oooh....if the cost is reduced on house TS devices....can I refund my exisiting set for the old SP and buy new ones at the new price...like we did for the mounts?I also would like the TS items above ground to be in a house , not an instanced house but something similar to the various banks etc in the zones (but larger obviously) , there are so many unused buildings in all the zones , having a door that closes on an open space should also cut down on graphical lag for people passing and those inside the building.</div><p>Message Edited by wullailhuit on <span class=date_text>09-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:05 AM</span>

[Larogi]

<DIV><FONT color=#3366ff>Thanks for the wonderful news! :smileyvery-happy:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3366ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3366ff>I look forward to seeing what the final product is going to be. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3366ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3366ff>I would like it if you could purchase the tradeskill stations either based on faction or some type of quest, not on guild status. This truly limits your audience. </FONT><FONT color=#3366ff>If you want more to be buying them to put in their homes then you need to make it so it is not so far out of reach.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3366ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3366ff>Another thought is to be able to purchase from broker via your home, but at a higher % so you encourage everyone to visit the local broker. Say like lower the broker to 15% and charge in home broker fees to 25%.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3366ff></FONT> </DIV>

[Calthine]

I've often thought that the home workstations should be available from the Tradeskill Factions at a reduced cost.

[Feydakeen]

<DIV>Devs DO listen !!!</DIV> <DIV>Thanks !</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/cheer</DIV>

[Seffrid]

Many thanks both for the update and for taking on board such unanimous concerns. Lesser companies would have ignored them and driven their own vision through regardless.

[StevusX]

<P>Thank you for listening and thinking.</P> <P><EM>Kepp it up :smileywink:</EM></P>

[Pherra]

<P><FONT color=#99ffff>Thank you Glendral!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ffff>Being one of the people that had suggested that SOE doesn't listen and only asks for our oppinion out of courtesy I would like to extend my apologies and graditude. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ffff>And as this is one of the first time's I have seen our feedback responded to in such a clear manner, maybe the rest of the team can learn something. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ffff>There may be thousands of us playing the game, but it's nice to know that you do care.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ffff>Thank you!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ffff>*curtsie*</FONT></P>

[xOnaton1]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Glendral wrote:<font color="#ffffff"><font size="2"><font face="Arial">...</font></font></font><div></div><ul><li><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span> </span></font><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in. We still may remove them in the future but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that. The devices that are in the main city zones are staying in as well.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>We are looking at a lot of the feedback we got from the playtest, /feedback, and the boards for possible implementation. <span class="810242900-27092006"> Among the topics we're discussing include adding</span><span class="810242900-27092006"> </span>more bankers and brokers in other zones, cost of the tradeskill devices you can purchase for your house, etc.</span></font></li></ul><hr></blockquote><a href="http://images.google.com/images?q=%22and+there+was+much+rejoicing%22&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images" target="_blank">And there was much rejoicing!</a><span>  :smileyvery-happy:   Thanks!Bankers would be very welcome in the zones that don't have them. Brokers are currently in the 4 main city zones (just ask any guard for a "broker" ) and all the crafting zones.Othesus - Dirge - Lucan DLereVaspar - Fury - Lucan DLere</span></div>

[Dynaen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Goldenflight wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Crafting after that becomes  like the end game in WoW: hitting a glass ceiling.  Those rare patterns and materials often require raid groups. The threshold for getting faction is a horrible grindfest. never mind the Thorium Brotherhood Weapon/Armor  Crafting for Dark Iron items took almost a full group to fight through an instance (BRD) to get to the forge to be able to craft. Btw, it helped if the crafter was level 60 (highest level of adventure in the game).</P> <P>What this meant was: (A) Raid guilds had the edge on crafters, raw materials, and setting prices at the Auction House. (B) small guilds under 40 would have a difficult time helping crafters  (C) Casual players and solo players had an extremely hard time attempting to reach those levels, if it was even possible for some of them.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I know *exactly* what you're talking about in WoW, and I did it all as a casual (as in non-raider, I played quite a bit).  Had a 60 rogue, stealth-mined BRD for Dark Iron Ore and BOTM.  Transferred it all to my priest hammersmith.  Duo'd down to the bar in BRD with a warlock buddy when I had bags and bags full of ore and BOTMs to turn in.  Hit Exalted with the Brotherhood, became the first person able to make the Ebon Hand on my server, was still the only one who could make it when I quit.  Pretty sure the Ebon Hand I crafted the day I got the recipe was the first one in the entire game, I had saved up all my cash and bought up cores on the market before they skyrocketed because I knew the recipe was coming from the test notes.  I did it all as a non-raider (nor did I buy ebay cash or anything like that).  Can be done, and I did do it.</P> <P> </P> <P>Doing something like that made me feel much more accomplished as a crafter than I have in this game.  I've got a 70th level Armorer, Tailor, and Provisioner.  And every other 70th level crafter of those classes has the exact same recipes and can do the exact same things I can.  There's zero variety.  People don't need to show off their wares.  They can do /who armorer 70 all and find 5-6 people and ask if they're busy or not busy.  And the crafted gear is mediocre at best, it's worse than it was in EQ1, and that's saying a lot.  Nothing crafted has ever made me think "wow, that's a great item!", more like "eh, I guess that'll do until I get something better."</P> <P><BR> </P>

[missionarymarr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pherra wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#99ffff>Thank you Glendral!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ffff>Being one of the people that had suggested that SOE doesn't listen and only asks for our oppinion out of courtesy I would like to extend my apologies and graditude. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ffff>And as this is one of the first time's I have seen our feedback responded to in such a clear manner, maybe the rest of the team can learn something. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ffff>There may be thousands of us playing the game, but it's nice to know that you do care.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ffff>Thank you!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ffff>*curtsie*</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>To be fair this isn't the first time they have listened and not allowed a change they were planning to make it to live. They also listened when complaints were made when they planned to changed some of the nodes in KoS to Tier 6. Quite a lot of complaints were made about that and they actually responded quite a bit quicker to the complaints if I remember right and reversed them. They have also shown a couple of times were they have listened to complaints but made the changes for the reasons they had stated they were changed in the first place. Getting rid of the newbie quests in the village was one they got rid of them because they wanted all quests to be more meaningful, I wish they hadn't got rid of them but they did give us a reason they were making the change. Also with getting rid of the crafting stations in Everfrost they gave us a reason. Mainly because the way they were put in was such that people could fall through the world causing some Customer service issues so they got rid of them from there. Now that said they have sort of promised before this change started that they do plan to add some crafting stations to other places other then cities such as Thundering Steppes and such. Hopefully we can expect to see some of those soon.</P> <P>I would say I think that personally it would have been wiser for SOE to have started to get stations in those places first before start adding them to the cities. Even with the reason they say they wanted to get rid of the instances. I think having some of the stations in zones a little closer to where adventurers are going to be will help with the community problem they feel there is.</P> <P>In the end though I really do feel that the biggest problem with Crafting not interacting with adventurers is the fact that crafted items aren't all that good compared to dropped. I can see some more interaction coming with adornments and such in EoF as long as they are only able to be crafted. That said I really feel if they want crafting to be more used they need to reexamine crafted items and give them something of a boost. They also need to look at adding imbues for the newer sets of crafted armor they added that is supposed to give players more of a choice about what to wear. I also feel they might even look at allowing some different choices on what sort of effects imbues can have. Such as maybe such things as crafted items that can have Flowing thought or such. Overall I really hope once EoF comes out that they start to really expand the amount of things a crafter can make and really start to allow crafters to contribute by giving players more choice about how to outfit there characters. I really think the main problem with the game overall is lack of choice everything is to generic we need to start to see lots of more choices especially if it means that we start to see more of certain armors or items are geared to one class rather then what we have now were everything is more general to an Archetype. The system we have now in some ways I think can harm certain classes that maybe need to really raise slightly different stats then the majority of their archetype yet can't find armor that allows that yet still gives them the defence and such they need.</P>

[Tanesha]

<div><blockquote><hr>Glendral schrieb:<div></div><p><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>Greetings all,</span></font></p><p><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>            I want to thank you all for your feedback and assistance with the playtest that we held on the Test server. We had some internal discussions and have made a few decisions that I thought I would share with you.</span></font></p><div></div><hr></blockquote>Thankyou ever so much!<blockquote><hr>Glendral schrieb:<div></div><ul><li><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span> </span></font><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in. We still may remove them in the future but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that. The devices that are in the main city zones are staying in as well.</span></font></li></ul><hr></blockquote>Please do not remove all of them, even in future. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />cu,Tanesha</div>

[Stormdove]

<DIV>Thank you so very much <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[MrWolfie]

<P align=center><FONT color=#ffff33 size=6>THANK YOU!</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Madmoon]

<DIV>Well done, listening to the Crafters.  And well done and thank you, all, who participated on the test.  This interaction between players and developers gives me great hope.</DIV>

[madha]

<P>You can put the crafting stations in the racial towns, alot of the buildings there have no use, since the removal of the fed ex quests.. I think the Sage shop in Willow wood is just used to buy languages now.  But if you do put tradeskill stuff out of the instances make sure you redisign the buildings they go in. MOst of the placement on test is just tossed in to a  fully decorated room, dont do that revamp the building remove everything in it and start from scratch..</P> <P>I would love to be able to craft in places like nettiville with all their building that are empty just toss ina brooker to the starting cities and you wouldnt see so much static or people up in arms..  But not do what EQ1 did and only have certain stations in certain zones, bad idead there. </P> <P>Can you make just a general purpase npc.. what i mean is NPC joe is standing there you hail him and geta  few pop ups. Brooker Fuel seller, Tradskill trainer. </P> <P>If you want to do something for TS people just revamp the TS instances to have more flow and be prettier.  ANd dont make me craft in my house for some reason i have like 30 cats and they stink the place up... Thats why my rents been do for awhile now</P>

[RandomWalk]

<P>I'd like to add my thanks Glendral for listening to our feedback and responding to it so promptly.  Thanks also to all who participated in the play test.</P> <P>Aeriel of Runnyeye</P> <P> </P>

[Saihung23]

<P>Thank You Glendral for taking in as much feedback as possible and using it in regards to this change.</P> <P> </P> <P>I, like others, was apprehensive that wholesale changes were going to be implemented with no due regard to player opinion.  It was wrong to make that assumption.</P> <P>Just the simple fact that the test of these changes were done in the manner in which they were should have been a big bright shining clue that this was a still incomplete change...and as such would require more time and thought.</P> <P>I read your response to the opinions expressed by players and am excited to see what you guys will come up with in order to get the crafting done in a more communal way.</P> <P>Your ideas and solutions seem to be taking the more important concerns and problems into consideration....with a work ethic like that I am sure the final product will be very player friendly.</P> <P>Good Luck and Thanks Again.</P>

[Oakum]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RandomWalk wrote:<BR> <P>I'd like to add my thanks Glendral for listening to our feedback and responding to it so promptly.  Thanks also to all who participated in the play test.</P> <P>Aeriel of Runnyeye</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I have to echo the first reply. How dare you listen to us, now 90 percent of all who posted about the changes have pry their foot out of their mouth. Most of those posters are hiding in their homes until they can get the taste out of their mouth. lol.

[Xaqari]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakum wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RandomWalk wrote:<BR> <P>I'd like to add my thanks Glendral for listening to our feedback and responding to it so promptly.  Thanks also to all who participated in the play test.</P> <P>Aeriel of Runnyeye</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I have to echo the first reply. How dare you listen to us, now 90 percent of all who posted about the changes have pry their foot out of their mouth. Most of those posters are hiding in their homes until they can get the taste out of their mouth. lol.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Adding my thanks to the list!  No clue who has to pry feet out of your mouth... we all expressed grave concern and let out pleas for them to reconsider.  Guess what?  They have!  That gives us chance to rejoice and to thank them.

[Goldenflig]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dynaen wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Goldenflight wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Crafting after that becomes  like the end game in WoW: hitting a glass ceiling.  Those rare patterns and materials often require raid groups. The threshold for getting faction is a horrible grindfest. never mind the Thorium Brotherhood Weapon/Armor  Crafting for Dark Iron items took almost a full group to fight through an instance (BRD) to get to the forge to be able to craft. Btw, it helped if the crafter was level 60 (highest level of adventure in the game).</P> <P>What this meant was: (A) Raid guilds had the edge on crafters, raw materials, and setting prices at the Auction House. (B) small guilds under 40 would have a difficult time helping crafters  (C) Casual players and solo players had an extremely hard time attempting to reach those levels, if it was even possible for some of them.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I know *exactly* what you're talking about in WoW, and I did it all as a casual (as in non-raider, I played quite a bit).  Had a 60 rogue, stealth-mined BRD for Dark Iron Ore and BOTM.  Transferred it all to my priest hammersmith.  Duo'd down to the bar in BRD with a warlock buddy when I had bags and bags full of ore and BOTMs to turn in.  Hit Exalted with the Brotherhood, became the first person able to make the Ebon Hand on my server, was still the only one who could make it when I quit.  Pretty sure the Ebon Hand I crafted the day I got the recipe was the first one in the entire game, I had saved up all my cash and bought up cores on the market before they skyrocketed because I knew the recipe was coming from the test notes.  I did it all as a non-raider (nor did I buy ebay cash or anything like that).  Can be done, and I did do it.</P> <P> </P> <P>Doing something like that made me feel much more accomplished as a crafter than I have in this game.  I've got a 70th level Armorer, Tailor, and Provisioner.  And every other 70th level crafter of those classes has the exact same recipes and can do the exact same things I can.  There's zero variety.  People don't need to show off their wares.  They can do /who armorer 70 all and find 5-6 people and ask if they're busy or not busy.  And the crafted gear is mediocre at best, it's worse than it was in EQ1, and that's saying a lot.  Nothing crafted has ever made me think "wow, that's a great item!", more like "eh, I guess that'll do until I get something better."</P> <P><BR> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Grats on that! Tell me, how did you manage to take down the boss mob so you could get to the forge? If you were wearing blues, awesome job! Took 4 of us to get to the forge (druid, pally, warrior, dps) and we were hardcore players.</P> <P>Point was: you needed to be the highest level adventurer in the game, and you required materials that could only be accessed from raiding. Glad you managed to acquire them before the raiders figured out to (a) either hold on to them or (b) "skyrocket" the price. </P> <P><BR>As I said before: </P> <P><FONT color=#00ccff>The crafting in EQ2 takes an approach that was best-practice in other games: crafters do NOT have to be adventurers, nor raiders in order to progress and make meaningful contribution to their community.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00ccff></FONT><FONT color=#00ccff></FONT> </P> <P>I agree that crafting needs to have value and a sense of accomplishment. I just don't believe you need to be an adventurer to do so. (Yes, I do both.) Talking about adding rare/difficult/variety would be a a great topic for another thread! </P> <P><BR></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[DerykRenaln]

This is good news Glendrel! Thank you for listening to some people in the community's concerns. I know alot of people suffer from lag and other issues, so it's good that you are leaving TS instances in. Please continue to value our feedback, it's much appreciated.

[Rastaah]

Well as a newer player to this game, as of February...I can say this makes me feel much better as I was really worried about lag. Thank you for listening and acting accordingly and responsibly!!!We appreciate it and it is well noted in my mind for future reference.Thanks again

[Dorien_Lytefoot]

A very sincere thank you !!!! <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>

[Maroger]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Glendral wrote:<BR> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffffff size=2><SPAN>Greetings all,</SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#ffffff size=2><SPAN>            I want to thank you all for your feedback and assistance with the playtest that we held on the Test server. We had some internal discussions and have made a few decisions that I thought I would share with you.</SPAN></FONT></P> <UL> <LI><FONT face=Arial color=#ffffff size=2><SPAN> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#ffffff size=2><SPAN>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in. We still may remove them in the future but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that. The devices that are in the main city zones are staying in as well.</SPAN></FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>We are looking at a lot of the feedback we got from the playtest, /feedback, and the boards for possible implementation. <SPAN class=810242900-27092006> Among the topics we're discussing include adding</SPAN><SPAN class=810242900-27092006> </SPAN>more bankers and brokers in other zones, cost of the tradeskill devices you can purchase for your house, etc.</SPAN></FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>I have added a Work Order Clipboard that you will be able to purchase from either the Coalition of Tradesfolk or the Ironforge Exchange once you have amiable <SPAN class=810242900-27092006>faction with </SPAN>either of them. </SPAN></FONT></LI> <LI><FONT face=Arial color=#ffffff size=2><SPAN>I added/fixed a number of merchants that were missing tradeskill fuel in the city zones.</SPAN></FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>I know about the problem in the Clothespinners, in North Qeynos, with the collision between the desk and the loom,<SPAN class=810242900-27092006> and</SPAN> this has already been fixed internally. Unfortunately since <SPAN class=810242900-27092006>this fix requires changes to art assets that are already locked for this update</SPAN>, we won’t be able to get it out <SPAN class=810242900-27092006>until </SPAN>Game Update <SPAN class=810242900-27092006>29</SPAN>.</SPAN></FONT></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>The wholesalers on the Queen<SPAN class=810242900-27092006>'</SPAN>s Colony and the Outpost of the Overlord will once again correctly begin you on your path as a crafter.</SPAN></FONT></LI></UL> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN> <FONT color=#ffffff>Thank you all again for your assistance and feedback.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is a mixure of bad and good news. I am glad to see that the main instances in the cities are staying.</P> <P>I am gratified that you are looking into reducing the cost and hopefully SP required for home work stations. </P> <P>How about adding the work order slate to the City merchants? For doing a writ for the Coalition of Tradeskill we don't get that much SP as we do for doing adventure writs so it will take way to long to earn the SP to get this clipboard unless you make it very, very cheap.</P> <P>But do you still intend to remove the instances from the starter zones like Big Bend -- if so that is a bad idea and will hurt newbiew trying to learn to craft.</P> <P>Thank you for communicating back to us.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Rastaah]

<blockquote><hr>Goldenflight wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Dynaen wrote:<BR><DIV>I never got a chance to post my thoughts, but I'm glad to see the instances are currently not being removed.  I'll try to provide some constructive critisism and ideas for the future.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>1) If you want us out of our dungeons to show off our wares, there needs to be a "Person crafted <insert item name here with link>" in some sort of chat window.  Like Bobsmith crafted pristine imbued xegonite short sword.  I started playing here at launch, left for WoW for about a year and half, came back here about 4-5 months ago.  I remember in WoW if you happened to be running by a big city and saw someone craft something, especially something that required a rare recipe, you thought wow, soandso has that rare recipe and just made that rare item!  I doubt anyone is gonna go stand by a forge and check out a cluster of horse butt and ask hey can anyone make x?  Its not interesting to watch people craft.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>2) On that note, its absurdly easy to find anyone to make anything currently.  Almost everyone has every single recipe.  Any 70th level crafting class is more than likely going to have what someone needs made.  There is no variety whatsoever.  In WoW, there were rare recipe drops, some extremely rare, or recipes that required you to get extremely high reputation/faction with a certain group to get.  Things like that would make crafting much more interesting and add variety.  I'd love to see some difficult or time consuming recipes put into the game that rival raid gear, which WoW did, the items just took a LOT of components.  Instead of 1 xegonite cluster, require an amazing item to take 50 xegonite clusters, a few raid drops, and a slew of other materials, and make the recipe a fabled drop or something.  Honestly crafting while easy and somewhat entertaining, is flavorless and dull with the lack of variety in items.</FONT></DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>3) One of biggest irritations with the removal of the specialized tradeskill instances a few updates ago was being stuck in the same instance with people who had no idea how to craft.  Coming with that (all my characters are Freeport based), I'm constantly getting stuck unable to go through doorways because people have their pets in doorways, along with a constant chorus of "OOH, AAH, UHHH, ARGH!" because people have no idea how to use the counter icons properly.  I miss my old quiet outfitter instance when I'd see 2-3 people at most in there.  I can't imagine the mess that removing the instances entirely would make, let alone the aggravation of getting stuck and hearing nonstop noises of people taking damage or necros doing mana drain rituals on their pets while crafting.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>4) While I admit a crafting dungeon doesn't make much sense, making the dungeons actual buildings would be a bit nicer and more flavorful.  Put them above ground and not in a basement.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>At any rate, thanks for listening to the players on this one.</DIV><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Don't want to interrupt the wonderful flow of this thread, I feel compelled to respond to this idea with a huge word of caution: don't do it.</P><P> </P><P>WoW crafting requires 2 things: need to get to level 40 in experience in order to attain the highest level of crafting (level 300) and money.  Getting to 40 is relatively easy in a game where the max level (currently) is level 60. Getting to level 300 in crafting is, I'm sorry, a joke. All it takes is money, material from the AH and 2 days of crafting max. I've rolled, gotten to level 300 crafting, deleted the profession and started over for a total of 13 times. Crafting there, like the level 1-59 experience is easy.</P><P>Crafting after that becomes  like the end game in WoW: hitting a glass ceiling.  Those rare patterns and materials often require raid groups. The threshold for getting faction is a horrible grindfest. never mind the Thorium Brotherhood Weapon/Armor  Crafting for Dark Iron items took almost a full group to fight through an instance (BRD) to get to the forge to be able to craft. Btw, it helped if the crafter was level 60 (highest level of adventure in the game).</P><P>What this meant was: (A) Raid guilds had the edge on crafters, raw materials, and setting prices at the Auction House. (B) small guilds under 40 would have a difficult time helping crafters  (C) Casual players and solo players had an extremely hard time attempting to reach those levels, if it was even possible for some of them.</P><P> </P><P><FONT color=#00ccff>The crafting in EQ2 takes an approach that was best-practice in other games: crafters do NOT have to be adventurers, nor raiders in order to progress and make meaningful contribution to their community.</FONT></P><P><FONT color=#00ccff>Having said that: if you'd like crafters to find a way to achieve rare or difficult  patterns THROUGH plying their trade (e.g. by crafting) let's talk.</FONT> :smileyhappy:</P><P> </P><P>/turns thread back</P><P>/apologizes for the interrupt again</P><P> </P><P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Goldenflight on <span class=date_text>09-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:33 PM</span><hr></blockquote>Amen do NOT ever go with WOW's messed up TS'ing. Yucko.(was a closed beta tester for wow and played until this last Feb,the tradeskilling was horrid and was one appeal when I came to EQ2)Thank you for being YOU Sony hehe.

[VericSauvari]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xalmat wrote:<BR>And who says the dev team doesn't listen to feedback?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>the bards do <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Krontak]

<DIV>Thanks man.  I wasn't on for the test unfortunatly 'cause I rotate my playdays and well, that fell on an off day but the stories sound horrendous.  Thanks for not being oblivious to the fact that this change was not only affecting crafters, but making the cities lag for crafters and adventurers alike.  I hope you find a solution though.  I would think if there were a way to limit the surrounding area loading this would resolve quite a few problems.  Not only at crafting tables out in the open, but possibly with contested out in the overlands, allowing one to load say, a radius of 20 meters surrounding them.  Don't know if its even possible to limit it that little but fi the option were available, I would think alot of problems would be resolved...just a thought.</DIV>

[Thicket Tundrabog]

Thank you for listening to the crafters. I'm impressed. You did the right thing.<div></div>

[Loredena]

Thank you!  I appreciate both the dialogue during the playtest, and your clear and prompt communication regarding the results of the dev discussion.   Not to mention I'm happy about what that decision is of course <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[DaeXyn]

<DIV>Thank you for this. The decision to leave the burbs instances alone is a huge relief to me and many, but the demonstration of listening to player feedback and then extending the concepts to further accomodate them in the same vien (like clipboards, etc) is even more encouraging. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Great game.</DIV>

[MmoWarlo]

my suggjestion,and one i would LOVE to be implemented.ok,you went the right rout by letting us get tradeskill writs from our house,now give us an errand boy to go and buy us fuels/misc so we dont have to run back to the instances/tradeskill ppl when were out of fuel/misc stuff the tradeskill ppl sell.granted,this might make the timed tradeskill writs easier,as evrything will be right at hand,in yer home vault,but ppl that mass buy materials alrdy and craft in there homes are alrdy gettin that bonus.<div></div>

[Magic]

Thanks, Glendral, for all that you've done and are doing.  I appreciate having the tradeskill instances returned for the time being.  If possible, put a banker and recipe book salesperson in the tradeskill zone.  It's a wish of mine.

[tracheaspider]

<P><STRONG>Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for leaving the instances in!</STRONG>  Thank you for giving us a <EM>choice</EM> of where to craft.  And now you're talking about giving us <EM>more </EM>choices, like a realistic chance of crafting in our rooms.  That would be great.</P> <P>And thank you to all the people who helped add their voice to the objections.  So many reasonable, logical, well-thought-out posts!  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Arwen0]

<P>Thank you Glendral for returning the tradeskill instances.  I love Willow Wood and the thought of loseing the tradeskill instance there was unbearable.  Thanks for listening and working with the comunity.</P> <P>There is one recuring theme I have seen echoed in the threads on the forum that making the items we craft worth buying by adventurers.  Personaly I think this would help bring the comunity together immensely.</P> <P>Thaks again for listening and holding the playtest. </P>

[Korpo]

<div><blockquote><hr>Glendral wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>Greetings all,</span></font></p><ul><li><font color="#ff0000" face="Arial" size="2"><span> </span></font><font color="#ff0000" face="Arial" size="2"><span>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in. We still may remove them in the future but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that. The devices that are in the main city zones are staying in as well.</span></font></li></ul><hr></blockquote>Translation: Our idea didn't work, it wasn't well thought out, and we can't put it in. Look forward to the crafting stations in the city being removed in a year.</div>

[VampireWookie]

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Glendral wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>Greetings all,</span></font></p><p><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>            I want to thank you all for your feedback and assistance with the playtest that we held on the Test server. We had some internal discussions and have made a few decisions that I thought I would share with you.</span></font></p><ul><li><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span> </span></font><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in. We still may remove them in the future but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that. The devices that are in the main city zones are staying in as well.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>We are looking at a lot of the feedback we got from the playtest, /feedback, and the boards for possible implementation. <span class="810242900-27092006"> Among the topics we're discussing include adding</span><span class="810242900-27092006"> </span>more bankers and brokers in other zones, cost of the tradeskill devices you can purchase for your house, etc.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>I have added a Work Order Clipboard that you will be able to purchase from either the Coalition of Tradesfolk or the Ironforge Exchange once you have amiable <span class="810242900-27092006">faction with </span>either of them. </span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>I added/fixed a number of merchants that were missing tradeskill fuel in the city zones.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>I know about the problem in the Clothespinners, in North Qeynos, with the collision between the desk and the loom,<span class="810242900-27092006"> and</span> this has already been fixed internally. Unfortunately since <span class="810242900-27092006">this fix requires changes to art assets that are already locked for this update</span>, we won’t be able to get it out <span class="810242900-27092006">until </span>Game Update <span class="810242900-27092006">29</span>.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>The wholesalers on the Queen<span class="810242900-27092006">'</span>s Colony and the Outpost of the Overlord will once again correctly begin you on your path as a crafter.</span></font></li></ul><p><font face="Arial" size="2"><span> <font color="#ffffff">Thank you all again for your assistance and feedback.</font></span></font></p><div></div><hr></blockquote>Thank the maker!!!!  I really hope the instances stay (at least until I can afford the TS stations for my house)   Thanks for listening to the feedback, and proving once again why this is the best MMORPG around.   (Now just send me my beta invite for EoF please <span>:smileywink:</span> )What was the original reason/thinking behind the removal of the instances?   Just curious, because I really couldn't come up with one benefit, except not having to zone into the crafting instance but I'd rather do that than try to craft in the laggy NQ / SQ areas.   (and I'm running with 4 gigs of ram and a 512 MB Raedon X1600)</div><p>Message Edited by VampireWookie on <span class=date_text>09-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:23 PM</span>

[greenmantle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Glendral wrote:<BR> <UL> <LI><FONT face=Arial color=#ffffff size=2><SPAN> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#ffffff size=2><SPAN>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in. We still may remove them in the future but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that. The devices that are in the main city zones are staying in as well.</SPAN></FONT></LI></UL> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Thank you . </P> <P>While you are in a listening mood though about the road kill fury hat </P> <P>and the lack of roots and the ....:smileyvery-happy:</P> <P> </P> <P>Thank you</P> <P> </P>

[Hurgar]

Thanks alot

[Glendral]

<div><blockquote><hr>greenmantle wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Glendral wrote: <div></div> <ul> <li><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span> </span></font><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in. We still may remove them in the future but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that. The devices that are in the main city zones are staying in as well.</span></font></li></ul> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Thank you . </p> <p>While you are in a listening mood though about the road kill fury hat </p> <p>and the lack of roots and the ....:smileyvery-happy:</p> <p>Thank you</p> <hr></blockquote>It's rootses <span>silly :smileyvery-happy:</span></div>

[Kishia]

<P>A BIG Thank you for listening to all us crafters <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P> <P>I love to craft and was so happy when I logged in I did the /happy dance.</P> <P>again my thanks you have made myself and many others very happy.</P>

[EtoilePirate]

<div><blockquote><hr>korpo53 wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Glendral wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>Greetings all,</span></font></p><ul><li><font color="#ff0000" face="Arial" size="2"><span> </span></font><font color="#ff0000" face="Arial" size="2"><span>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in. We still may remove them in the future but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that. The devices that are in the main city zones are staying in as well.</span></font></li></ul><hr></blockquote>Translation: Our idea didn't work, it wasn't well thought out, and we can't put it in. Look forward to the crafting stations in the city being removed in a year.</div><hr></blockquote>Well that's not necessarily a bad thing.  I mean, I don't know how many people remember this but they tried multiple half-thought-out, half-implemented iterations of "combat changes" on Test for a solid 5 months before they finally stuck it onto the DoF Beta and LU13.  And I distinctly remember that one of those patches left my then-24 Assassin literally unable to fight anything, even in a duo.But I definitely prefer my skillset now to how it was 15 months ago.  It's just ... well, it's like writing, or drawing.  It's easier to have a first draft to throw out, or lines to erase, than it is to make the first mark in the first place.So if they take the time to think through real changes, fundamental ones, that would make everything better, and then spend a year planning how to implement them... well, there wouldn't be anything wrong with changing things then, that way.  It was really the combination of changes -- and changes without substitutions, at that -- that did this patch in.</div>

[Siriln]

Thank you Glendral, very good news indeed  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  .  My main worry was the lag involved, maybe a solution that works for everyone will be found in time.  And thank you to all the testers who mobbed Test, wish I coulda joined you.

[Jrral]

Thought: don't remove the instances, ever. Crafters need the lack of distractions too much to just be dropped out in the open. Some extensions might be good, though. City zones are too laggy already, but tradeskill stations out in the adventure zones would probably make a lot of adventurers and crafters happy. In Antonica, put them at say Sawyer Cabin and out in Windstalker Village. That'd put crafters closer to where the adventurers are "working", and give the two a reason to mix as adventurers level up, harvest things and need equipment, spells etc. upgraded or made and they don't want to schlep all the way back to the city. Carrots work better than sticks if you want to get the two paths to associate more.The exact mix of stand-alone stations and full tradeskill instances, that I'm not sure of.<div></div>

[Ebarel]

<DIV>Thanks for listening and not making the changes.</DIV>

[z3oslo]

You know the stations you can buy to your house?What if they can be placed ANYWHERE!You can just carry the station with you.Teammate 1: Dang! i dont have any invisibletotems left.Me: Not a problem sir! I have a tradeskill station with me *Clank* Here is your totem sir, that will be 102 pp! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Crafting stations when you want, where you want it FTW!Raiding will never be the same again, half the raid is pulling out the crafting station in front of the end boss <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Raidleader: Carpenters! On my command make 20 repairkits NOW! FEED THE CARPENTERS WITH POWER! FEED NOW! Alchemists! Get ready to make power potions! on my coooooommand!! NOW! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by z3oslo on <span class=date_text>09-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:22 AM</span>

[Bozidar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Glendral wrote:<BR> <UL> <LI><FONT face=Arial color=#ffffff size=2><SPAN> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#ffffff size=2><SPAN>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in. We still may remove them in the future but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that. The devices that are in the main city zones are staying in as well.</SPAN></FONT></LI></UL> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Can we have an answer as to why?  Seriously, please.

[Bozidar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TKnarr wrote:<BR>Thought: don't remove the instances, ever. Crafters need the lack of distractions too much to just be dropped out in the open. Some extensions might be good, though. City zones are too laggy already, but tradeskill stations out in the adventure zones would probably make a lot of adventurers and crafters happy. In Antonica, put them at say Sawyer Cabin and out in Windstalker Village. That'd put crafters closer to where the adventurers are "working", and give the two a reason to mix as adventurers level up, harvest things and need equipment, spells etc. upgraded or made and they don't want to schlep all the way back to the city. Carrots work better than sticks if you want to get the two paths to associate more.<BR><BR>The exact mix of stand-alone stations and full tradeskill instances, that I'm not sure of.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That would be AWESOME in PvP... I hope you bought your gold for fuel... *GANK* <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Oakum]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> YankeeBoz wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TKnarr wrote:<BR>Thought: don't remove the instances, ever. Crafters need the lack of distractions too much to just be dropped out in the open. Some extensions might be good, though. City zones are too laggy already, but tradeskill stations out in the adventure zones would probably make a lot of adventurers and crafters happy. In Antonica, put them at say Sawyer Cabin and out in Windstalker Village. That'd put crafters closer to where the adventurers are "working", and give the two a reason to mix as adventurers level up, harvest things and need equipment, spells etc. upgraded or made and they don't want to schlep all the way back to the city. Carrots work better than sticks if you want to get the two paths to associate more.<BR><BR>The exact mix of stand-alone stations and full tradeskill instances, that I'm not sure of.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That would be AWESOME in PvP... I hope you bought your gold for fuel... *GANK* <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I am sure it wouldnt be hard for the dev's to make either a safezone and/or a no pvp flag of some sort with a timer dealing with crafting. Of course those who would want to kill people while they are helpless from trying to tradeskill and unable to watch thier surroundings would cry and whine a lot. </P> <P>Edit: Of course enroute to the safezone and or setting the crafting flag and after the timer was up they would be fair game of course. </P> <P>Besides, the game is mostly PVE and as the dev's have said, PVE will never be effected by PVP and if they did not put any in the overland zones due to PVP, then they would have broken their word. </P><p>Message Edited by Oakum on <span class=date_text>09-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:47 AM</span>

[Bozidar]

 Not for nothing but creating a Stove and Keg in windstalker would be pretty nice.. or being able to bring one there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Cahla]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Glendral wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> greenmantle wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Glendral wrote:<BR> <UL> <LI><FONT face=Arial color=#ffffff size=2><SPAN> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#ffffff size=2><SPAN>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in. We still may remove them in the future but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that. The devices that are in the main city zones are staying in as well.</SPAN></FONT></LI></UL> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Thank you . </P> <P>While you are in a listening mood though about the road kill fury hat </P> <P>and the lack of roots and the ....:smileyvery-happy:</P> <P> </P> <P>Thank you</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>It's rootses <SPAN>silly :smileyvery-happy:</SPAN><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Oh noes!  Don't takeses my rootses, precious!  =)

[DarkMirrax]

<DIV>excellent listening by soe ? my god things really are improving !!! :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[StevusX]

<DIV>QUOTE</DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>You know the stations you can buy to your house?<BR>What if they can be placed ANYWHERE!<BR><BR>You can just carry the station with you.<BR><BR>Teammate 1: Dang! i dont have any invisibletotems left.<BR><BR>Me: Not a problem sir! I have a tradeskill station with me *Clank* Here is your totem sir, that will be 102 pp! <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0><BR><BR>Crafting stations when you want, where you want it FTW!<BR>Raiding will never be the same again, half the raid is pulling out the crafting station in front of the end boss <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif" width=16 border=0><BR>Raidleader: Carpenters! On my command make 20 repairkits NOW! FEED THE CARPENTERS WITH POWER! FEED NOW! <BR>Alchemists! Get ready to make power potions! on my coooooommand!! NOW! <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" width=16 border=0></DIV> <DIV>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I LOVE this idea - would make the cost of the TS stations well worth it</DIV> <DIV>GO FOR IT SOE ! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Criesi]

<DIV>Well as someone who moaned and asked SOE to reconsider I would also like to say thank you for listening.</DIV>

[billit2]

Just wanted to add my Thank you to Glendral for taking the time to listen and work with us all <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Zaldor]

<P>You know, I've been thinking about this for a few days.  This is more like a stay of execution than "listening to the players".  If they were really listening to the players they wouldn't still be considering removing the instances in the future.</P> <P> </P> <P>Zaldor - I have characters on a server in Everquest2</P>

[circusgirl]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zaldor wrote:<BR> <P>You know, I've been thinking about this for a few days.  This is more like a stay of execution than "listening to the players".  If they were really listening to the players they wouldn't still be considering removing the instances in the future.</P> <P> </P> <P>Zaldor - I have characters on a server in Everquest2</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>There's nothing inherently sacred about tradeskill instances, and getting rid of them isn't in and of itself a bad thing.  The way they were going to implement it just had problems.  If they think this through, playtest it some more, listen to a lot of feedback, then I'm sure they could find a good solution that lets them get rid of the instances.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My suggestions...</DIV> <UL> <LI>Keep the Ironforge/Coalition instances</LI> <LI>remove the instances in the suburbs but add in buildings with all the machines, broker, fuel merchants, etc. in each of the suburbs</LI> <LI>remove the crafting machines from the city merchant, and add them as an ally faction reward at a reduced cost from the Ironforge/Coalition, OR leave them in at current prices at the city merchant and add them in at reduced prices from the Ironforge/Coalition</LI> <LI>add in fuel venders that can be placed in your house as an amiable faction reward from Ironforge/Coalition</LI> <LI>add in clipboards that can be placed in your house that both GIVE and START the writs as a faction reward from Ironforge/Coalition</LI> <LI>add in a broker board that you can buy from with a 30% broker fee as a status reward from the city merchant.</LI> <LI>add in a bank box (using the safe graphics already present in game) that can be purchased from the city merchant that allows you to access your bank slots.  This box should be VERY expensive, not something everyone can have in their home, in the range of 5 million status and 5pp, and should require a high-level guild.  Once placed, however, it should be useable by anyone with the friend level that comes into your house.</LI></UL> <P>And while we're at it, can we have greater customization of housing permissions?  I would like for anyone who comes in to my house to be able to use my mailbox (currently friend) and brokerboards (visitor), interact with pets , and access their house vault (trustee), but only trustees to be able to remove/place items.  Make the house permissions system kind of like the current guild permissions system: give us 3 different security levels (lets say visitor, friend, trustee) and a whole bunch of checkboxes that we can check or uncheck for different security levels.  So I might go down the list and under visitor, check 'use mailbox,'  'access house vault,'  'use broker board,'  'use writ clipboard (hopefully these are coming soon!)', etc., wherass under friend I might check those boxes plus 'interact with pets,' 'move furniture,' 'place broker container' and under trustee all of those plus 'deposit rent' 'pay rent' 'add/remove items' etc.  The mechanics already exist in the guild window.  Just adapt them to housing!</P>

[Zaldor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> circusgirl wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zaldor wrote:<BR> <P>You know, I've been thinking about this for a few days.  This is more like a stay of execution than "listening to the players".  If they were really listening to the players they wouldn't still be considering removing the instances in the future.</P> <P> </P> <P>Zaldor - I have characters on a server in Everquest2</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>There's nothing inherently sacred about tradeskill instances, and getting rid of them isn't in and of itself a bad thing.  The way they were going to implement it just had problems.  If they think this through, playtest it some more, listen to a lot of feedback, then I'm sure they could find a good solution that lets them get rid of the instances.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My suggestions...</DIV> <UL> <LI>Keep the Ironforge/Coalition instances</LI> <LI>remove the instances in the suburbs but add in buildings with all the machines, broker, fuel merchants, etc. in each of the suburbs</LI> <LI>remove the crafting machines from the city merchant, and add them as an ally faction reward at a reduced cost from the Ironforge/Coalition, OR leave them in at current prices at the city merchant and add them in at reduced prices from the Ironforge/Coalition</LI> <LI>add in fuel venders that can be placed in your house as an amiable faction reward from Ironforge/Coalition</LI> <LI>add in clipboards that can be placed in your house that both GIVE and START the writs as a faction reward from Ironforge/Coalition</LI> <LI>add in a broker board that you can buy from with a 30% broker fee as a status reward from the city merchant.</LI> <LI>add in a bank box (using the safe graphics already present in game) that can be purchased from the city merchant that allows you to access your bank slots.  This box should be VERY expensive, not something everyone can have in their home, in the range of 5 million status and 5pp, and should require a high-level guild.  Once placed, however, it should be useable by anyone with the friend level that comes into your house.</LI></UL> <P>And while we're at it, can we have greater customization of housing permissions?  I would like for anyone who comes in to my house to be able to use my mailbox (currently friend) and brokerboards (visitor), interact with pets , and access their house vault (trustee), but only trustees to be able to remove/place items.  Make the house permissions system kind of like the current guild permissions system: give us 3 different security levels (lets say visitor, friend, trustee) and a whole bunch of checkboxes that we can check or uncheck for different security levels.  So I might go down the list and under visitor, check 'use mailbox,'  'access house vault,'  'use broker board,'  'use writ clipboard (hopefully these are coming soon!)', etc., wherass under friend I might check those boxes plus 'interact with pets,' 'move furniture,' 'place broker container' and under trustee all of those plus 'deposit rent' 'pay rent' 'add/remove items' etc.  The mechanics already exist in the guild window.  Just adapt them to housing!</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well, the players sure seem to like the instances quite a bit.  Kinda pushes sacred.  In business, customers are sacred.  Unhappy customers is not a good thing.  Happy customers make more customers.  </P> <P>Not going to go over everything discussed in that other thread.  But I still think that by them simply saying they are still considering removing the tradeskill instances that they are not truly listening to the players.</P> <P> </P> <P>Zaldor - I have characters on an EverQuest 2 server</P><p>Message Edited by Zaldor on <span class=date_text>09-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:16 PM</span>

[CrazyMoogle]

 <blockquote><hr>Glendral wrote:<div></div><ul><li><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span> </span></font><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial" size="2"><span>First, we are adding the tradeskill society instances back in.  <font color="#6633ff">(This is good)</font> We still may remove them in the future <font color="#6633ff">(Not good)</font> but we definitely need to do a lot more work before we can do that.   The devices that are in the main city zones are staying in as well <font color="#6633ff">(Fine either way)</font>.</span></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff"><span>We are looking at a lot of the feedback we got from the playtest, /feedback, and the boards for possible implementation. <span class="810242900-27092006"> Among the topics we're discussing include adding</span><span class="810242900-27092006"> </span>more bankers and brokers in other zones, cost of the tradeskill devices you can purchase for your house, etc. <font color="#6633ff">(This is good)</font></span></font></li></ul><div></div><hr></blockquote>Part of the problem with the whole feedback system is that we almost never know exactly what SOE's reasoning is for making a certain game changing decision.  As such, it becomes nearly impossible to make suggestions that fall in line with meeting whatever goal your team is trying to accomplish, which makes the vast majority of player suggestions pretty much useless.It would be nice if we could know exactly what the reasoning and end goal is for trying to remove these tradeskill zones.  It's obviously not because you're trying to do what the players want as that much has been quite clearly demonstrated.  So if you want suggestions from the playerbase, those of us who subscribe to the game, why not give us a little info about what is the grand scheme you're trying to accomplish so we can make suggestions that fall under those guidelines?<div></div>

[xOnaton1]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>When asked WHY all these proposed changes, Glendral's response was: <font color="#ffff00"><strong> "We really just want to try and make crafting more of the community, rather than the hidden thing in the basement" </strong></font>and<font color="#ffff00"><strong> "The crafters are their own community, but separated from the adventurers.  We want to try and make it one big community."</strong></font><div> </div><div>He also added, <strong><font color="#ffff00">"Thanks again for the feedback, we will be discussing this.  I'll try to post on the forums when we have reached a decision."</font></strong></div><div></div><hr></blockquote><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=64938&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=64938&view=by_date_ascending&page=1</a></div>

[CrazyMoogle]

"<font color="#ffff00"><strong>"We really just want to try and make crafting more of the community, rather than the hidden thing in the basement" </strong></font>and<font color="#ffff00"><strong> "The crafters are their own community, but separated from the adventurers.  We want to try and make it one big community.""<font color="#ffffff">That's PR speak.  I'm interested in the real reason for making changes, whether they be technical, financial, or whatever.</font></strong></font><div></div>

[Zaldor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CrazyMoogle wrote:<BR>"<FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>"We really just want to try and make crafting more of the community, rather than the hidden thing in the basement" </STRONG></FONT>and<FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG> "The crafters are their own community, but separated from the adventurers.  We want to try and make it one big community.""<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffffff>That's PR speak.  I'm interested in the real reason for making changes, whether they be technical, financial, or whatever.</FONT><BR></STRONG></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>And besides, who really ONLY crafts anymore?  I'm sure back in the day this could have really been possible, but to say that there really is a wall between crafters and adventurers I don't think really flys anymore.  I'm sure there are people who ONLY adventure, and as such, they are the ones on the outside looking in.  And quite frankly, I have very little in common with these people.</P> <P>Zaldor - I once was a crafter only, but then I had to go out and harvest.</P>

[Krontak]

Did anyone get a difinitive answer as to why they attempted this change?  Was it to remove crafters from the dark dungeons or what it to bring life back into the cities?  Or, what it a mix of both.  Did any dev speak as to why this proposed change that didn't go completly through take place?

[Prrasha]

That was answered, in bright yellow letters, in all 3 of the posts just above yours, as well as further upthread. If people want to say "ah, but that's not the REAL reason.  Crafters out of the dungeons?  No!  Sony is short on hardware and needs fewer instances!  It's a conspiracy, I tell you!" ... I guess that's ok, but to say the reasons haven't been given at all is borderline silly. And if they wanted to kill instances, they can kill a lot more by removing in-house crafting and buying (no crafting stations... buy directly from the outside of the door for every container placed inside, rather than having to zone in...) than the whole 14 tiny zones they're removing by doing this. <div></div>

[Krontak]

<P>Well, if they want to make us part of the community then make Weaponsmithing a viable tradeskill.  I'm [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing embaressed to stand at a forge so people can point at me and laugh at me making [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] weapons out in public.  Allowing me to hide deep in the forge allows me to hold onto the last bit of dignity I have for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s sake!  I ain't no freakshow!</P> <P>Theres some feedback for ya!</P> <P>Anyways, I'm not convinced this was the real reason.  I find it hard to believe it was in our best interest.  Go speak to any weaponsmith out there and ask them if you think any of the recent changes were for thier best interest. </P> <P>My guess is this was the result of some brainstorm idea to make the city populations seem more lively.  Probably some high up boss wanted a virtual "tour" of where all this money's being pumped into.  Then the boss says,  hey, where are all the people?  Oh, they are all in instances.  We instance things 'cause systems can't handle our complex designs and lag all to hell, quote un quote.  I know, lets grab the tradeskillers and put them out on display.  I mean, honesly, how much of an impact would it have.  Well, they found out that this shift, from thier test, of a minority of the population, tradeskilling, ended up affecting everyones gameplay.  To me, this is the only reason this change wasn't put forward.  No vendors in easy to access locations, banks, mailbox's etc were just a side note that fortunatly came about from this experiment. </P> <P>I think the programmers need some ideas to bring life back into the cities if this is what thier real intention is.  I mean, who want's to play a game that seems dead.</P> <P>If you want players to enter the city then there has got to be some reward to going back to the cities.  The horse won't follow the carrot if the carrot is all gone.  Give us a carrot and we will come!  :smileytongue:</P> <P>So, just one idea.  Maybe with the re-invention of Gods, you could place temples in the cities.  Maybe praying for a given amount of time could give you an extra 5% to all stats or possibly give you extra rejuvination for a certain amount of time.  Once it begins to diminish you would have to re-visit your temple and pray to re-state your devotion and be rewarded once again with your reward.  This is just a basic concept.</P> <P>How about create market places within the large cities with discounts that you wouldn't otherwise get at your regular fence/brokers already located around the cities in the hopes crafters and adventurers alike would travel to the main cities for thier goods.  I mean why would you otherwise if everythng is available at the docks. </P> <P>I hoep you can see where I'm coming from.  Both of the ideas stated above don't "force" anyone into doing anything but are an option, which, imho, if adventurers and crafters were given, they would most likely accept and utilize. </P> <P>So please, lets not isolate any one playstyle when you come together and try to make a more perfect world.  If you took a different approach to making a more lively game, the response and most likely participation would be a positive one.  Anyways, back to work.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Krontak on <span class=date_text>10-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:19 PM</span>

[Magic]

<DIV>If the devs are still reading this thread, I'd like to suggest something that might bring life back into the cities and towns. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rather than having chest loot dropping from mobs, I'd like to see the NPC's in towns and cities reward me for my kills.  My journal would automatically tell me who to see for my rewards after the kills.  Body loot should work this way too, including coins.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I solo, so this seems pretty good to me.  But I like farming so I already see one problem.  I'd like to know what I'm going to get before going to the NPC.  If I kill a named for a specific loot item, I don't want to be surprised when I talk to the NPC only to find out that I hadn't earned it yet.  So if the journal could list all of the loot that's coming to me, I'll know when to stop hunting and cash in my kill tally.  I'd also like the option to delete any loot that I consider to be junk and not worth my time to turn it in for cash.  The turned-in reward entries in the journal would be cleared once the rewards are received.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the case of groups and raids, the loot would go into the leader's journal where he/she can divide it into anyone else's journals as they see fit.  It would seem to eliminate the need for backpacks while hunting, but you'll need them during reward retrieval unless the goods go directly in the bank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I haven't given this any more thought, so I welcome anyone's input on this.  Maybe this should start a new thread?</DIV>

[Siufu]

Is there any plan to add outdoor tradeskill tables to Maj'dul? Golden Sceptor seems to be a good place for crafting.<div></div>