Tradeskill Suggestion [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Larogi

09-25-2006, 06:23 AM

<DIV>First, DO NOT REMOVE the current tradeskill zones in the villages, yet!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Second, If you would like to create open space TS buildings within the city, then lets redesign some current buildings or create new ones. Here are some examples:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Carpenters</DIV> <DIV>Create a building for each type of tradeskill. For instance, a carpenters building that would have all 3 crafting stations for them. When you frist walk in there would be a desk with a clerk (broker or a carpenter broker that only shows wares of carpenters) and in the front of the building you would see examples of some of there wares. I believe there is a building already like this in NQ, but it needs to be redesigned. The upstairs/downstairs or behind a curtain would be the location of the crafting stations. This would then give the sense of what it seems you are trying to do and that is give a more realistic approach to trade skilling.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jewelers</DIV> <DIV>Again, there is a jewelry store for this in NQ and its layout is nice on the first floor and the upstairs would need to kick out the barber. This would be the location for the work benches.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Weaponsmiths</DIV> <DIV>There is probably not a building that I have seen anywhere that would work. So you would have to either redesign a current building or create a new one for weaponsmiths. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Armorers</DIV> <DIV>There are a few building that could work, but the layout would need to be redesigned.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could keep going on but I think you get the idea of what I am trying to say, if not I will list it via bullets:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Create building for each Tradeskill</LI> <LI>First floor or front of shop should be examples of wares for tradeskills</LI> <LI>Desk with a tradeskill specific broker at front of store front(I know that we can do this through search functions already, but it would make it easier for us that find it cumbersome because of the lag between clicking and typing)</LI> <LI>Adjacent seperate room for the crafting stations. (This could be through a curtained door or stairs, please no door you have to open....It is nice to see people working while shopping)</LI> <LI>Fuel Clerk - In the crafting room have a clerk that will sell you all fuels</LI> <LI>Book & Writ Clerk - In the crafting room have a clerk that sells you all your books and when you talk with them you can get TS writs</LI></UL> So you will have 3 - NPC's for each building and the look of a true trade building designed around selling there wares. Please devs give your feedback............I think this is what you are wanting, but you are trying to slap it into the current buildings and it looks terrible. When you go into the buildings you have slapped the crafting stations into, think in real life terms how absurd it would look to you, let alone unprofessional. I think you need to scrap your current plans that you have on test and either look at what I have proposed or create an open forum and let us know what you are wanting......We love this game and there are many pasionate players out there that would really be able to give you great imput on what you are trying to accomplish with tradeskilling. Just don't ignore us! I would like this thread to not be about how much you don't like the proposed changes on test, but true thought on how to create a specialized tradeskill shop/store. Let see some of the creative juices out there.

Jackula

09-25-2006, 06:50 AM

<div></div>I checked out the Tailor Shop in NQ to make some bags and armor for myself today. The space is very cramped. Walking access to the left side is blocked, at least for my large barbarian female, so expect to have people jumping around you to get by rather than take the long way around.I also found it odd to have an alchemist table in the top area of the jeweler shop. That's where the barber currently is. "Pardon me, love. You don't mind if I mix together some poisonous ingredients beside you while you're getting your make-over do you? That fine Ranger down in the lobby needs them right away." You are correct. It is odd to have both the barber and craft table in the same space.Again, that space is incredibly cramped. I don't think I'd like to be in there with more than one other player using it.I would propose an open warehouse building with all the craft stations in them, each in their own area. But we already had that, didn't we? <div></div>Message Edited by countjackula on 09-24-2006 08:51 PM

Calthine

09-25-2006, 09:43 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> countjackula wrote: I checked out the Tailor Shop in NQ to make some bags and armor for myself today. The space is very cramped. Walking access to the left side is blocked, at least for my large barbarian female, so expect to have people jumping around you to get by rather than take the long way around. Message Edited by countjackula on 09-24-2006 08:51 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> It's blocked for my wood elf too.

Winter

09-25-2006, 09:45 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Larogi wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could keep going on but I think you get the idea of what I am trying to say, if not I will list it via bullets:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Create building for each Tradeskill</LI> <LI>First floor or front of shop should be examples of wares for tradeskills</LI> <LI>Desk with a tradeskill specific broker at front of store front(I know that we can do this through search functions already, but it would make it easier for us that find it cumbersome because of the lag between clicking and typing)</LI> <LI>Adjacent seperate room for the crafting stations. (This could be through a curtained door or stairs, please no door you have to open....It is nice to see people working while shopping)</LI> <LI>Fuel Clerk - In the crafting room have a clerk that will sell you all fuels</LI> <LI>Book & Writ Clerk - In the crafting room have a clerk that sells you all your books and when you talk with them you can get TS writs</LI></UL> So you will have 3 - NPC's for each building and the look of a true trade building designed around selling there wares. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Okay... I do agree that the new format is incredibly cramped. Literally, it is a great idea and it makes more sense than crafting instances, but it will be very awkward with an increased population. I'll address each point in a moment... I could be COMPLETELY wrong in my assumption, but I think their decision was partially influenced by the fact that tradeskill instances needed separate servers. Or at least this is what I have been told by a fellow player - I could be wrong, so please don't take what I say necessarily as truth. -Having a building for each tradeskill, I definately agree with. Sort of like a warehouse where citizens can outsource their talents TO the local vendors. I think this is a great idea. I think, the problem lies in the possible disruption of the cities current layouts. -As for the first floor having examples of goods, etc... Well... It's a great concept, but I do think this is more of a presentation issue than an issue of function. It's a great idea, but I think the first focus should definitely be accomodating many crafters at once. The risk here also is that it could look terribly cliche if not done right... Or, it could look extremely boutique-like. -I think a broker should be available in each of these areas, but I don't necessarily think they need to be tradeskill specific. Perhaps, however, the broker could default to the corresponding tradeskill. I think that would be a better idea without too much change to the broker system. Granted, I don't know how feasible this would be for the devs - I don't know how much programming would go into such a venture. -This is once again more about presentation in the end. As far as presentation goes, I think it is a wonderful idea, but it is a matter of priority and space I think... hmmm... Perhaps a large glass window through which you can see a hint of the crafting going on. At the same time, I imagine that some people may not have strong computers and seeing a lot of activity at once could slow their computers greatly. Some players already have trouble when tradeskill instances get crowded - imagine that upon entering a store. -You know, I think a fuel clerk is a fabulous idea. I do think it would be even better if it was specific to a tradeskill. I'll explain why I think they should be tradeskill specific in one of the following bullets. -A book and writ clerk? I think the writs would be better handed out by the main vendor of the store. I think having a tradeskill specific clerk that has the relevent fuels AND books would make more sense. I personally think writs should be handed out by the people running the store in front as logically, they would know what is needed. -I do think there should be an apprenticeship building that caters to new tradeskillers. If you are new, haven't decided on a tradeskill yet, etc, it would be nice to have one place to go to where you could learn all about each path AND craft some items to work up skill. Perhaps there could be a representative from each professions' union or organization to explain more about the profession to the new tradeskiller. It would be nice for the new tradeskiller to then be able to take an apprenticeship and work their way up to their chosen path. Then, they could graduate from this school of sorts and move out to the store that requires their tradeskill. Anyhow, these are my opinions <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I hope everything makes sense. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Keep in mind again that I'm not an expert of any sort, I am just trying to look at your proposal with an entire server population in mind. However, I also don't know the limitations placed upon the devs, the limitations of their tools, or how this would affect server, zone, or personal computer performance. Anyhow, my 2 cents. *hugs Larogi*

missionarymarr

09-25-2006, 10:36 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Winter wrote: Okay... I do agree that the new format is incredibly cramped. Literally, it is a great idea and it makes more sense than crafting instances, but it will be very awkward with an increased population. I'll address each point in a moment... I could be COMPLETELY wrong in my assumption, but I think their decision was partially influenced by the fact that tradeskill instances needed separate servers. Or at least this is what I have been told by a fellow player - I could be wrong, so please don't take what I say necessarily as truth. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Okay see this I can't agree with. I don't understand how the idea of Crafting instances are all that bad. First they do all have entrances from the villages that lead into. And with all the times you have to zone to different areas to begin with I just don't see the problem. Especially since each different village lead to it's own instance. Now I admit if they had all lead to the same instance no matter what yes that would be a little unrealistic but I personally feel the instances are fine the way they were. To tell you the truth they were even better way back before they got rid of the specialized instances. Now if this change is about freeing servers for the new expansion as I heard lots of players say. My comment would be then why will we have to pay for the new expansion. I really think this is a change that just wasn't well thought out and hopefully the DEVs will listen to the players and still put in all the crafting locations in the cities and maybe rearrange some of them to be better located and also leave the Tradeskill Instances in.

Larogi

09-25-2006, 11:06 AM

I want to thank you for you VALUED input. I think if we give the devs suggestions on the tradeskills instances, instead of criticism maybe we will find a possible better solution for what they are trying to do and what we as users are wanting from the game. __________________________________________________ _____________________________________________ -Having a building for each tradeskill, I definitely agree with. Sort of like a warehouse where citizens can outsource their talents TO the local vendors. I think this is a great idea. I think, the problem lies in the possible disruption of the cities current layouts. <UL> <LI>A solution would to put the tradeskill shop only in one of the city zones for instance the Jewelry Shop in NQ, keep that there since it exists (Justs needs remodeling...expansion). They were planning on putting 8 workbenches between the city zones, lets put all 8 work benches in the Jewelry Shop. </LI> <LI>Split up the tradeskill professions amongst the city zones. (i.e. Armorer or weaponsmiths would have their shop at the Hall of Steel.....granted this would need remodeling, also) (i.e. Carpenters could get a new building in Eldar Grove maybe even along with the wood workers) just some thoughts. </LI></UL> -As for the first floor having examples of goods, etc... Well... It's a great concept, but I do think this is more of a presentation issue than an issue of function. It's a great idea, but I think the first focus should definitely be accomodating many crafters at once. The risk here also is that it could look terribly cliche if not done right... Or, it could look extremely boutique-like. <UL> <LI>Yes, this would be a presentation issue, purely cosmetic, and it could be a fun way to create unique looking shops for each tradeskill.</LI></UL> -This is once again more about presentation in the end. As far as presentation goes, I think it is a wonderful idea, but it is a matter of priority and space I think... hmmm... Perhaps a large glass window through which you can see a hint of the crafting going on. At the same time, I imagine that some people may not have strong computers and seeing a lot of activity at once could slow their computers greatly. Some players already have trouble when tradeskill instances get crowded - imagine that upon entering a store. <UL> <LI>I was really trying to avoid the constant opening and closing of the door like they had in the tradeskill instances in Qeynos. It was a lot nicer moving around in the Freeport tradeskill instances.</LI></UL> -You know, I think a fuel clerk is a fabulous idea. I do think it would be even better if it was specific to a tradeskill. I'll explain why I think they should be tradeskill specific in one of the following bullets. <UL> <LI>I agree whole-heartedly that inside the tradeskill shop their is a fuel clerk that has all of the fuels needed for that tradeskill.</LI></UL> -A book and writ clerk? I think the writs would be better handed out by the main vendor of the store. I think having a tradeskill specific clerk that has the relevent fuels AND books would make more sense. I personally think writs should be handed out by the people running the store in front as logically, they would know what is needed. <UL> <LI>This makes sense.........So we would be looking at 4 NPC's (Fuel Clerk, Book/Recipe Clerk, Writ Clerk and Broker). If I am understanding you then the writ clerk would be the main vendor and give possible apprenticeship quests for those trying to learn or understand the tradeskill.</LI></UL> -I do think there should be an apprenticeship building that caters to new tradeskillers. If you are new, haven't decided on a tradeskill yet, etc, it would be nice to have one place to go to where you could learn all about each path AND craft some items to work up skill. Perhaps there could be a representative from each professions' union or organization to explain more about the profession to the new tradeskiller. It would be nice for the new tradeskiller to then be able to take an apprenticeship and work their way up to their chosen path. Then, they could graduate from this school of sorts and move out to the store that requires their tradeskill. <UL> <LI>This would probably be served best on the islands, of course, and one location in Qeynos and Freeport. </LI> <LI>If we go with an apprenticeship quest, this would allow for people to be sent to the specialized tradeskills stores before they decide on their profession and then when they decide they would receive this profession from the main clerk after completing a writ to prove you want to be that profession.</LI></UL> __________________________________________________ ____________________________________________

Despak

09-25-2006, 11:06 AM

Another thing is if you are doing this, move some of the decent NPC's that buy back at a decent rate. I use them to sell my grinded rubbish to to recoup fuel costs. The NPC's in the cities have the lowest buyback causing us to run all over the place now for a simple crafting session.Where are the tradeskill vendors being moved to? Where are the recipe books now?It's seemingly strange that you spend an age making the game easier and less time consuming and then you do this!Are you really trying to dissuade people from crafting?

Winter

09-25-2006, 11:28 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> missionarymarr wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Winter wrote: Okay see this I can't agree with. I don't understand how the idea of Crafting instances are all that bad. First they do all have entrances from the villages that lead into. And with all the times you have to zone to different areas to begin with I just don't see the problem. Especially since each different village lead to it's own instance. Now I admit if they had all lead to the same instance no matter what yes that would be a little unrealistic but I personally feel the instances are fine the way they were. To tell you the truth they were even better way back before they got rid of the specialized instances.</BLOCKQUOTE> Now if this change is about freeing servers for the new expansion as I heard lots of players say. My comment would be then why will we have to pay for the new expansion. I really think this is a change that just wasn't well thought out and hopefully the DEVs will listen to the players and still put in all the crafting locations in the cities and maybe rearrange some of them to be better located and also leave the Tradeskill Instances in. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Oh - goodness, please don't get me wrong. I don't think that tradeskill instances are necessarily a BAD idea, but I do think they are somewhat awkward. I do agree that the specialized instances were very nice, I just think the process of becoming a member, etc, was... cumbersome for lack of a better word. As for the server issue, that is a possible reason that *I* thought of. I'm not a dev, so I can't necessarily say that is the reason - it was speculation on my part... And as for the expansion, we must pay for the time and development cost spend on it - so that is rather irrelevent to the issue of server resources. Think of it this way... Tradeskilling instances have been riddled with issues in the past due to, and this is IF MY memory is serving me correctly, being on separate servers. Having tradeskilling areas on one server along with the city stuff could increase stability if this is the case. Once again, however, I am not a dev... and I am working purely off of things I seem to remember reading in the past.

Winter

09-25-2006, 11:41 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Larogi wrote: I want to thank you for you VALUED input. I think if we give the devs suggestions on the tradeskills instances, instead of criticism maybe we will find a possible better solution for what they are trying to do and what we as users are wanting from the game. __________________________________________________ _____________________________________________ <UL> <LI>A solution would to put the tradeskill shop only in one of the city zones for instance the Jewelry Shop in NQ, keep that there since it exists (Justs needs remodeling...expansion). They were planning on putting 8 workbenches between the city zones, lets put all 8 work benches in the Jewelry Shop. (Makes sense, sounds like a good idea to me - it would have to be tested with a population though)</LI> <LI>Split up the tradeskill professions amongst the city zones. (i.e. Armorer or weaponsmiths would have their shop at the Hall of Steel.....granted this would need remodeling, also) (i.e. Carpenters could get a new building in Eldar Grove maybe even along with the wood workers) just some thoughts. (Yes - I assumed that is what you meant in the initial post. :smileyhappy: Fabulous idea.)</LI></UL> <UL> <LI>Yes, this would be a presentation issue, purely cosmetic, and it could be a fun way to create unique looking shops for each tradeskill.</LI> <LI>(Oh, I totally agree it would make it nice and creative. Perhaps it could even vary as more business comes along... and grow. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</LI> <LI></LI> <LI>I was really trying to avoid the constant opening and closing of the door like they had in the tradeskill instances in Qeynos. It was a lot nicer moving around in the Freeport tradeskill instances. (Yea, the doors can be a pain. I wonder if they're cosmetic or if they serve a purpose such as framerate, etc... hmm. No idea. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</LI></UL> -You know, I think a fuel clerk is a fabulous idea. I do think it would be even better if it was specific to a tradeskill. I'll explain why I think they should be tradeskill specific in one of the following bullets. <UL> <LI>I agree whole-heartedly that inside the tradeskill shop their is a fuel clerk that has all of the fuels needed for that tradeskill.</LI></UL> <UL> <LI>This makes sense.........So we would be looking at 4 NPC's (Fuel Clerk, Book/Recipe Clerk, Writ Clerk and Broker). If I am understanding you then the writ clerk would be the main vendor and give possible apprenticeship quests for those trying to learn or understand the tradeskill. (Essentially, yes - however I think Fuel and Books/Recipes should be on one clerk, creating the appearance that said clerk is a veteran tradeskiller themself... Kind of like a business manager/clerk, if that makes sense. Perhaps they could streamline it even further by having him give out writs AS a manager, but that could get extremely crowded for one npc.)</LI></UL> <UL> <LI>This would probably be served best on the islands, of course, and one location in Qeynos and Freeport. (Exactly! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</LI> <LI>If we go with an apprenticeship quest, this would allow for people to be sent to the specialized tradeskills stores before they decide on their profession and then when they decide they would receive this profession from the main clerk after completing a writ to prove you want to be that profession. (Sounds like a good idea... I was kind of thinking more about a job fair/workshop sort of setting, where a tradeskiller can learn about available profession, learn some skills, then move up to their chosen profession if that makes sense. They already require the creation of certain items to progress, etc, as a sort of quest... hmmm... Have to think on this.)</LI></UL> __________________________________________________ ____________________________________________ <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I apologize if my response was messy - I wanted to address each point again and it was taking too long to scroll up and down and up and down, type type type. LOL <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> *hugs Larogi* You've got some great ideas. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

DeathEater024

09-25-2006, 06:25 PM

Man I thought it was super cool back in the day as you progressed all the scholar's here all the weponsmiths here all the wood workers there. Everyone with their own society was they way it was ment to be. But if you wanted to you could go back and craft at your original place if you wanted to mingle. I still am dumbfounded that these were removed. But now that I like being in my instance with everyone, sometimes working our some deal between crafters, and now we will be scattered across biggerzones with less machines to use with more people trying to use them.

Winter

09-25-2006, 11:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DeathEater024 wrote: Man I thought it was super cool back in the day as you progressed all the scholar's here all the weponsmiths here all the wood workers there. Everyone with their own society was they way it was ment to be. But if you wanted to you could go back and craft at your original place if you wanted to mingle. I still am dumbfounded that these were removed. But now that I like being in my instance with everyone, sometimes working our some deal between crafters, and now we will be scattered across biggerzones with less machines to use with more people trying to use them. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> That's a very valid concern too. I don't know what to tell you <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Mighty Melvor

09-26-2006, 01:45 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DeathEater024 wrote: Man I thought it was super cool back in the day as you progressed all the scholar's here all the weponsmiths here all the wood workers there. Everyone with their own society was they way it was ment to be. But if you wanted to you could go back and craft at your original place if you wanted to mingle. I still am dumbfounded that these were removed. But now that I like being in my instance with everyone, sometimes working our some deal between crafters, and now we will be scattered across biggerzones with less machines to use with more people trying to use them. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> This is my concern too. What is the point of putting things into the cities? You still have to zone to these places! And considering that each hovel has 3 stations per skill, will we have 24 stations of each type spread out in the city? This just seems to be a nightmare in the making :smileysad: