Tradeskill Changes, Feedback, and Playtest. [Archive]

Glendral

09-21-2006, 11:50 PM

Greetings all,I wanted to post to let you all know exactly where the tradeskill devices can be found and that we will be holding a playtest this afternoon and tomorrow afternoon to gather feedback. We have seen the numerous threads already posted about these changes and want to get some concentrated feedback from the playtests. I will make separate posts for the playtest feedback on each day. For now here are where the tradeskill devices can be found.<p><font face="Courier New" size="2"><b>Freeport</b></font></p><p>The writ givers, tradeskill recipe vendors, and the newbie trainer can be found in either East Freeport or North Freeport.</p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2"><b>Freeport</b><b> North</b></font></p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Shop Name<span> </span><span> </span>Chemistry Table<span> </span>Sewing Table<span></span><span> </span>Forge<span></span><span> </span>Workbench<span></span><span> </span>Woodworking Table<span></span><span> </span>Engraved Desk<span></span><span> </span>Keg & Stove<span></span>Torlig's<span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>2<span></span>Fine Clothiers<span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>3<span></span>Oracle<span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>2<span></span><span></span>Blue Building<span></span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span></span>2<span></span><span></span>Jade Tiger Inn<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>2<span></span>Academy<span></span><span></span><span> </span>2<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>3<span></span>Temple of War<span></span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span></span>2<span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>1<span></span></font></p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2"><b>Freeport</b><b> East</b></font></p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Shop Name<span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span></span>Chemistry Table<span></span><span> </span>Sewing Table<span></span><span> </span>Forge<span></span><span> </span>Workbench<span></span><span> </span>Woodworking Table<span></span><span> </span>Engraved Desk<span></span><span> </span>Keg & Stove<span></span>Hallard's Bolt<span> </span>2<span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>2<span></span>Trader's Holiday<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>2<span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>1<span></span><span></span>Armor by Ikthar<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>1<span> </span>1<span></span><span></span><span></span>Freeport Observer<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>3<span></span>Seafarers Roost<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>2<span></span>The Emporium<span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>2<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>1<span></span><span></span>Poison Shop<span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>3</font></p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2"><b>Freeport</b><b> West</b></font></p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Shop Name<span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>Chemistry Table<span></span><span> </span>Sewing Table<span></span><span> </span>Forge<span></span><span> </span>Workbench<span></span><span></span> Woodworking Table<span></span><span> </span>Engraved Desk<span></span><span> </span>Keg & Stove<span></span>Gurb and Ironstars<span></span><span> </span>2<span></span><span> </span>1<span></span><span></span>Fine Leather & Hide<span></span><span></span><span> </span>1<span></span><span></span><span> </span><span></span>1<span></span><span></span>Backalley Brewhouse<span></span><span></span><span> 1 </span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span></span>1<span></span>Blood Haze Inn<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span><span></span>1</font></p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2"><b>Freeport</b><b> South</b></font></p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Shop Name<span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>Chemistry Table<span></span><span> </span>Sewing Table<span></span><span> </span>Forge<span></span><span> </span>Workbench<span></span><span> </span>Woodworking Table<span></span><span> </span>Engraved Desk<span></span><span> </span>Keg & Stove<span></span>Block and Tackle<span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span>1<span></span><span></span><span> </span>2<span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span>1<span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span>2<span></span><span></span></font></p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2"> <b>Qeynos</b></font></p><p>The writ givers, tradeskill recipe vendors, and the newbie trainer can be found in either North Qeynos or South Qeynos.</p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2"><b>Qeynos North</b></font></p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Shop Name<span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>Chemistry Table<span></span><span> </span>Sewing Table<span></span><span> </span>Forge<span></span><span> </span>Workbench<span></span><span> </span>Woodworking Table<span></span><span> </span>Engraved Desk<span> </span><span></span>Keg & Stove<span></span>The jewel Box<span></span><span></span><span> </span>1<span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span>2<span></span><span></span>Call to Arms<span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span><span></span>2<span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span>1<span></span><span></span>Clothespinners<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>2<span></span>Fhara's Furnishings<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span> 1<span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>1<span></span><span></span>Sneed's Trading Post<span></span><span></span><span> </span>1<span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span>1<span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>2<span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span>1<span></span><span> </span><span> </span>2<span></span><span></span>Voleen's Bakery<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span>2</font></p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2"><b>Qeynos South</b></font></p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Shop Name<span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>Chemistry Table<span></span><span> </span>Sewing Table<span></span><span> </span>Forge<span></span><span> </span>Workbench<span></span><span> </span>Woodworking Table<span></span><span> </span>Engraved Desk<span></span><span> </span>Keg & Stove<span></span>Maile's Exchange<span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>1<span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span>1<span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span>1<span></span><span></span>The Tin Soldier<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>3<span></span>The Herb Jar<span></span><span></span><span> </span>3<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span>2<span></span>Bag n'Barrel<span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>2<span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>2<span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span>1<span></span>Lion's Mane Inn and Tavern<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>1<span></span>Food on Foot<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span><span></span>2<span></span><span></span>Mage Tower<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>4<span></span></font></p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2"><b>The Elddar Grove</b></font></p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Shop Name<span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>Chemistry Table<span></span><span> </span>Sewing Table<span></span><span> </span>Forge<span></span><span> </span>Workbench<span></span><span> </span>Woodworking Table<span></span><span> </span>Engraved Desk<span></span><span> </span>Keg & Stove<span> </span>In Range<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span>2<span></span>Antonica's Pottery<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span><span></span>1<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span><span></span>1</font></p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2"><b>Qeynos</b><b>Harbor</b></font></p><p><font face="Courier New" size="2">Shop Name<span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>Chemistry Table<span></span><span> </span>Sewing Table<span></span><span> </span>Forge<span></span><span> </span>Workbench<span></span><span> </span>Woodworking Table<span></span><span> </span>Engraved Desk<span></span><span> </span>Keg & Stove<span> </span>Echoes of Destiny<span></span><span></span><span> </span>1<span></span><span></span>Fish's Alehouse<span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>1<span></span>The Hall of Steel<span></span><span></span><span></span><span> </span><span></span>3<span></span><span></span><span>Harbor Cache<span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span></span><span> 2</span></span></font></p><div></div>

EtoilePirate

09-21-2006, 11:54 PM

As a dedicated player and, what's more, a dedicated Test player, I really appreciate the quick response to the feedback.Now too bad I won't be home from work tonight in time to log on. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

Eveningsong

09-21-2006, 11:58 PM

Doh, the one day the entire week I won't be home at my regular time <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Hopefully they patched today so that people won't crash when they submit their /bug and /feedback <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

the flu

09-22-2006, 12:02 AM

Any way to reformat the list please? it's too wide for my screen resolution so the lines wrap around, throwing off what I'm sure was a nicely formated table in an office document <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

Copperheadr

09-22-2006, 12:06 AM

Where will the fuels vendors be , related to the location of the crafting locations ? The fuels vendors were always close to the actual crafting locations, so a crafter would not have to run around half the city and loading areas just to buy a piece of coal...that would be highly incovenient !

ironman2000

09-22-2006, 12:09 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Copperheadr wrote:<BR>Where will the fuels vendors be , related to the location of the crafting locations ? <BR><BR>The fuels vendors were always close to the actual crafting locations, so a crafter would not have to run around half the city and loading areas just to buy a piece of coal...that would be highly incovenient !<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I was wondering the same thing, fuel vendors and book merchants that used to be outside of the instances?

AlkonTheWarrior

09-22-2006, 12:10 AM

<DIV>How about brokers? Now there will just be one or 2 instead of one in every home town in the TS instances?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, pretty much the entire server on an alignment side will be using 1 or 2 brokers?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think the lag in Qeynos Harbor is bad now -- wait until the zone is packed with tradeskillers and people at the broker.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why is this being done?</DIV>

Pullo

09-22-2006, 12:16 AM

FWIW, tradeskill writs are still down on test since the outdoor patch.

Walker0

09-22-2006, 12:18 AM

<P> Just out of curiosity, will carpenters timed writs get a time extension in the future to cover the time spent scurrying from one crafting area to the next? Having to use woodworking station, a forge, and the loom makes it a bit of a pain.</P> <P> As far as I can see, Sneed's trading post is the only one that will have the required stations, and I would hate to see all the carpenters on a server packed into one spot. :smileysad:</P>

VampireWookie

09-22-2006, 12:28 AM

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Walker001 wrote:<div></div><p> Just out of curiosity, will carpenters timed writs get a time extension in the future to cover the time spent scurrying from one crafting area to the next? Having to use woodworking station, a forge, and the loom makes it a bit of a pain.</p><p> As far as I can see, Sneed's trading post is the only one that will have the required stations, and I would hate to see all the carpenters on a server packed into one spot. :smileysad:</p><hr></blockquote>Don't forget about the Work Bench. We need that for vases, and urns and stuff.This is truly the stupidest idea ever. NQ / SQ / QH are already lagged all the time, and now instead of having crafters spread out in 6 zones, you're gonna shrink it down and force them into the already laggy zones? What is this change supposed to accomplish? It makes absolutely no sense and is a great burden on the players. I can't think of one benefit this brings. I finally get back into crafting with the writs, and now this? <span>:smileysad:</span></div>

Eveningsong

09-22-2006, 12:29 AM

Well the last tier the work benches are used for is T3, the first tier that has writs, so I'd think that having a forge rather than a work bench nearby a loom and woodworking station would make a lot more sense.

AlkonTheWarrior

09-22-2006, 12:33 AM

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eveningsong wrote:<BR>Well the last tier the work benches are used for is T3, the first tier that has writs, so I'd think that having a forge rather than a work bench nearby a loom and woodworking station would make a lot more sense.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What would make a lot more sense would be to scrap this whole idea. Then again, I don't think they are interested in making any sense, since thinking about this (the removal of TS instances) for less then 30 seconds, anyone who has ever crafted or even played EQ2 would realize this is an awful idea.</DIV><p>Message Edited by AlkonTheWarrior on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:34 PM</span>

VampireWookie

09-22-2006, 12:35 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Eveningsong wrote:Well the last tier the work benches are used for is T3, the first tier that has writs, so I'd think that having a forge rather than a work bench nearby a loom and woodworking station would make a lot more sense.<hr></blockquote>Ahh, I'm only level 30 so that explains why I don't know that, but it still holds true for the level 20-30 writs.</div>

Ironha

09-22-2006, 12:47 AM

<P>I really wish I had something positive, or at least constructive, to say. :smileysad:</P> <P> </P> <P>I can give you my feedback without bothering to playtest. It's kinda like a waiter bringing a poo sandwich to your table. No need to take a bite, you already know it's a really bad idea.</P>

Stormdove

09-22-2006, 12:54 AM

<P>There is usually a merchant near the tradeskill station who will sell you fuel. Also near the station is a table or clipboard where you can pick up your writ after talking to the writ givers. Earlier today the writ givers were not giving writs, someone said that would be fixed today. There are crafting trainers who sell books in NQ, SQ, QH (Devona Ironforge) and I don't know if there is one in EG. There are brokers in NQ, SQ, EG, QH I didn't find any anywhere else. </P> <P>I'm pretty much not happy about the changes, will log into my test characters and try them out but my characters live in Willow Wood. They like it there, they have their houses there, bank there, buy/sell there, tradeskill there. My provie on live even has her own stove&keg in her room there. I have 9 tradeskillers, I don't want to have to traipse all over zones looking for the least occupied station. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I want to be able to go to my favorite tradeskill instance and hang with the others in their favorite tradeskill instance. As much as I dislike the crowding now that most of the instances are gone, it will be even worse when there are none. I always liked going into the different tradeskill instances, each character had her own favorite, and seeing other scholar types or craftsman types or outfitter types doing their thing. It gave me a sense of community to see the same names working in the instance with me time after time. Now it's so crowded its too laggy but do you have to take away the last shreds of that community feeling of seeing the people you chat with in crafting channel?</P> <P>We crafters like to hang together and congratulate each other on our dings. Scattering us across the city is just not good. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

Snapdragyn

09-22-2006, 12:55 AM

<P>For the love of the still-missing Bristlebane, WHY?! What the heck are they THINKING with this change?!</P> <P>CONS</P> <P>1) Increased lag in city zones as crafters run around.</P> <P>2) Greater inconvenience to crafters needing multiple workstations as they'll be more spread out.</P> <P>3) Greater inconvenience to crafters running to broker to buy components or sell items unless they add a bunch (see 'lag' above).</P> <P>4) Greater inconvenience to crafters buying books after a crafting ding unless they add a bunch of book vendors (see 'lag' above).</P> <P>5) Potentially greater inconvenience to crafters in buying fuels unless they add a bunch of fuel vendors (see 'lag' above).</P> <P>6) Greater inconvenience to crafters running to the bank for that component you forgot or just dinged into being able to use as they'll be further away (unless the plan is to add these to villages as well, thus increasing lag there also).</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>PROS</P> <P>1) Getting to stare at something other than the crafting dungeon? Since I'm really paying more attention to the crafting window when I'm crafting than the scenery, I'm hard-pressed to list this as an actual pro.</P> <P>2) Um...?</P> <P> </P> <P>Guys, seriously -- please, please, PLEASE scrap this idea now! It's worth losing the fuel cost to save that harvested rare [Players' Favor]! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

3C HAVOK

09-22-2006, 01:09 AM

<DIV>I agree, I do not realy like this change at all. There are now no Brokers or supply people in the smaller cities. I craft out of my "crafting house" in CH where i have all the stations set up in a room. I did this cause the house my main has is in SQ and with no instances to get supplys it was the best thing i could thing of. I now and back in the same boat, I have all my craft stuff in one place yet i have to zone hop to buy fuel and things off the broker. Not a good change at all imo.</DIV>

Canston

09-22-2006, 01:13 AM

<P>I still think this is a horrible idea. I cannot imagine what lead up to this considering they haven't really said. If your trying to free up space by removing all the small instances why not make a large instance per city? If your saying that the reason you did this is because the looks were bad, redo the Instance look. Paint the walls, polish the floor, add windows and curtains. Better yet change the appearance of the crafting window since that is what were looking at 95% of the time while crafting. This is likened to moving your desk out into the middle of the parking lot because your tired of staring at the cubcle walls. Not very practical but I agree it would be nice. </P> <P>I'm not going to waste much more of my time communicating my displeasure because history has showed you could care less what we think. I will say that I have been very loyal to EQ and EQ2 and beg your re-consider this change. I'm not much for cutting and running so I'll stick it out to see what happens. I will say that if this isn't tweaked a good bit I will be greatly disappointed in your effort.</P> <P> </P>

Kordran

09-22-2006, 01:15 AM

<DIV>As long as they don't eliminate the tradeskill instances, I don't really see a problem. My guess is that most folks who are leveling will still go their town instances. The outdoor stations will be more convenient for players who are placing orders, and the crafters filling those orders. For some folks, zoning is a painful process, either because of their system or their network connection. I really don't see legions of players crafting outside, at least once the newness wears off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If they do stick with removing those instances, and completely replace all of them with outdoor stations, now <STRONG>that</STRONG> would be a stupid move on their part. I presume that one of the reasons they used instances in the first place was to help minimize lag in the cities, and even with the recent changes they've made to try and reduce lag, I don't see that issue as having been completely mitigated.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want to add outdoor crafting stations, great, go for it. But leave the existing tradeskill instances intact. Give players <STRONG>more</STRONG> options, don't just re-arrange the deckchairs, please.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Kordran on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:18 PM</span>

Devilsbane

09-22-2006, 01:17 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snapdragyn wrote:<BR> <P>For the love of the still-missing Bristlebane, WHY?! What the heck are they THINKING with this change?!</P> <P>CONS</P> <P>1) Increased lag in city zones as crafters run around.</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>For the Sake of the Gods get more memory if you worried about lag!</FONT></P> <P>2) Greater inconvenience to crafters needing multiple workstations as they'll be more spread out.</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>The majority of tradeskills only use multiple stations between </FONT><FONT color=#cc0000>level 3-19! Sorry Carpenters and Weaponsmiths you are SOL!</FONT></P> <P>3) Greater inconvenience to crafters running to broker to buy components or sell items unless they add a bunch (see 'lag' above).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>In Qeynos every greater city zone already has a broker! We do need a bank branch in South Qeynos and Elddar Grove!</FONT></P> <P>4) Greater inconvenience to crafters buying books after a crafting ding unless they add a bunch of book vendors (see 'lag' above).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>Stations without book sellers, come on the Devs have some common sense (don't they?).</FONT></P> <P>5) Potentially greater inconvenience to crafters in buying fuels unless they add a bunch of fuel vendors (see 'lag' above).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>Stations without fuels and supply clerks, come on the Devs have some common sense (don't they?).</FONT></P> <P>6) Greater inconvenience to crafters running to the bank for that component you forgot or just dinged into being able to use as they'll be further away (unless the plan is to add these to villages as well, thus increasing lag there also).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>Every greater city zone in Qeynos already has a bank except South Qeynos and Elddar Grove!</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>PROS</P> <P>1) Getting to stare at something other than the crafting dungeon? Since I'm really paying more attention to the crafting window when I'm crafting than the scenery, I'm hard-pressed to list this as an actual pro.</P> <P>2) Um...?</P> <P> </P> <P>Guys, seriously -- please, please, PLEASE scrap this idea now! It's worth losing the fuel cost to save that harvested rare [Players' Favor]! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>A little more knowledge about the city zones and thought before you post next time please. :smileywink:<BR></P> <P>Did I mention we need a bank branch in South Qeynos and Elddar Grove?!</P><p>Message Edited by Devilsbane on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:51 PM</span>

Kordran

09-22-2006, 01:24 AM

<DIV>Yes, South Qeynos needs a bank. North Qeynos needs a mender. Supposedly there's some sort of "grand vision" on their part about why they intentionally shorted the various city zones, but I have yet to figure out what that is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It sounds like they're taking the steps to make every city zone as useful as the slums, which is a good thing (it always killed me that it was always the most convenient to stay right where you were when you became a citizen, living in your 5sp hovel... as soon as you move into the city proper, it becomes this needless series of trade-offs...) But they need to do it completely, and not some half-baked solution. Every city zone should have all of the basic amenities: banker, broker, mender, city merchant, etc. And each city zone should have "bells" to each of the other zones. Forcing multiple zone loads to move from one area of the city to another is just poor design, not "immersion" or whatever nonsense they might think it is.</DIV>

Ever-Befallen

09-22-2006, 01:25 AM

IMO this change is fine, as long as the indoor tradeskill instances stay. I don't want to be forced outdoors, as it seems like a hassle. I wouldn't mind using a machine outdoors here or there, when leaving my room in NQ for example, but sometimes it's good to use the indoor ts instances to check broker quickly, or just to craft all in one spot.

Tuppen

09-22-2006, 01:27 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devilsbane wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snapdragyn wrote:<BR> <P>For the love of the still-missing Bristlebane, WHY?! What the heck are they THINKING with this change?!</P> <P>CONS</P> <P>1) Increased lag in city zones as crafters run around.</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>For the Sake of the Gods get more memory if you worried about lag!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Gee. That's helpful. Not everyone has money to throw around to by RAM just to improve their framerate </FONT></P> <P>2) Greater inconvenience to crafters needing multiple workstations as they'll be more spread out.</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>Only level 3-19 crafters need more the one station!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Not True. Carpenters still need to use multiple stations for writs into t6 at least. Probably t7, but my carpenter is only 63.</FONT></P> <P>3) Greater inconvenience to crafters running to broker to buy components or sell items unless they add a bunch (see 'lag' above).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>In Qeynos every greater city zone already has a broker! We do need a bank branch in South Qeynos and Eddar Grove!</FONT></P> <P>4) Greater inconvenience to crafters buying books after a crafting ding unless they add a bunch of book vendors (see 'lag' above).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>Stations without book sellers, come on the Devs have some common sense (don't they?).</FONT></P> <P>5) Potentially greater inconvenience to crafters in buying fuels unless they add a bunch of fuel vendors (see 'lag' above).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>Stations without fuels and supply clerks, come on the Devs have some common sense (don't they?).</FONT></P> <P>6) Greater inconvenience to crafters running to the bank for that component you forgot or just dinged into being able to use as they'll be further away (unless the plan is to add these to villages as well, thus increasing lag there also).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>Every greater city zone in Qeynos already has a bank except South Qeynos and Eddar Grove!</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>PROS</P> <P>1) Getting to stare at something other than the crafting dungeon? Since I'm really paying more attention to the crafting window when I'm crafting than the scenery, I'm hard-pressed to list this as an actual pro.</P> <P>2) Um...?</P> <P> </P> <P>Guys, seriously -- please, please, PLEASE scrap this idea now! It's worth losing the fuel cost to save that harvested rare [Players' Favor]! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>A little more knowledge about the city zones and thought before you post next time please. :smileywink:<BR></P> <P>Did I mention we need a bank branch in South Qeynos and Eddar Grove?!</P> <P>Message Edited by Devilsbane on <SPAN class=date_text>09-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:22 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

Devilsbane

09-22-2006, 01:28 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kordran wrote:<BR> <DIV>Forcing multiple zone loads to move from one area of the city to another is just poor design, not "immersion" or whatever nonsense they might think it is.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Are you too good to take the quickest route between greater city zones 'the down below' like everyone else?

Eveningsong

09-22-2006, 01:28 AM

<blockquote><hr>Devilsbane wrote:<blockquote><hr>Snapdragyn wrote:2) Greater inconvenience to crafters needing multiple workstations as they'll be more spread out.<font color="#cc0000">Only level 3-19 crafters need more the one station!</font><hr></blockquote><p>A little more knowledge about the city zones and thought before you post next time please. :smileywink:Did I mention we need a bank branch in South Qeynos and Eddar Grove?!</p><hr></blockquote>Wrong <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Carpenters need 4 stations up to T3, 3 up to T6 and 2 in T7 (loom and woodworking). Most of the writs I've done have involved from 2 to 4 stations (depending on the level, I have a T4 and T7 carpenter). Weaponsmiths also use 2 stations fairly high (monk stuff takes a loom), and a few others may as well. I highly agree though, if TS stations are not going to be available in racial areas, they absolutely need to put a bank into SQ (I thought there was one in EG already lol).

Devilsbane

09-22-2006, 01:34 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tuppen wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devilsbane wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snapdragyn wrote:<BR> <P>For the love of the still-missing Bristlebane, WHY?! What the heck are they THINKING with this change?!</P> <P>CONS</P> <P>1) Increased lag in city zones as crafters run around.</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>For the Sake of the Gods get more memory if you worried about lag!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Gee. That's helpful. Not everyone has money to throw around to by RAM just to improve their framerate </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00> </FONT><FONT color=#cc0000>You should have went Station Exchange server! That would not be a problem. Transfer your high level crafters and I am sure that will not be a problem for you in the near future.</FONT></P> <P>2) Greater inconvenience to crafters needing multiple workstations as they'll be more spread out.</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>The majority of tradeskills only use multiple stations between level 3-19! Sorry Carpenters and Weaponsmiths you are SOL!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Not True. Carpenters still need to use multiple stations for writs into t6 at least. Probably t7, but my carpenter is only 63.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00> </FONT><FONT color=#cc0000>Sorry to hear that, must have been over looked by the Devs in the revamp.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>That is strange the weaponsmiths need the loom. Tailors should have been given those hand wraps.<p>Message Edited by Devilsbane on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:00 PM</span>

Looker1010

09-22-2006, 01:36 AM

So now I need to remember what machines are in which locations and who does and does not sell fuel. Sorry guys, I'll stay in the dungeon where I have all I need in one place. This is particularly an issue for carpenters who need all but the scribing desk to make their wares.I posted what's above with insufficient information. I went to bed the night before I posted with tradeskill instances still where they had always been. Had not logged in on test when I posted here. Had no idea the dungeons were totally gone.This is a terrible idea. 1. The villages were communities with players seeing and visiting with each other, usually in the bank. If the loss of the tradeskill instances is permanent it will mean the death of all the villages. Why go there if not to craft?2. This will be very bad for player merchants. We used to run up to the broker to buy odds and ends while crafting. Now there are no brokers in most crafting locations.3. My carpenter wound up working outside Sneed's in NQ, in the rain. Is this supposed to enhance player experience? It was utterly ridiculous. Standing there in the pouring rain crafting. Bah.<p>Message Edited by Looker1010 on <span class=date_text>09-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:45 AM</span>

Kordran

09-22-2006, 01:37 AM

Kordran

09-22-2006, 01:39 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Looker1010 wrote:<BR>So now I need to remember what machines are in which locations and who does and does not sell fuel. Sorry guys, I'll stay in the dungeon where I have all I need in one place. This is particularly an issue for carpenters who need all but the scribing desk to make their wares.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The real uproar is that it looks like they're at least testing the removal of those tradeskill zones. If it goes live, you won't have a "dungeon" to go to.

Devilsbane

09-22-2006, 01:40 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kordran wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devilsbane wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kordran wrote:<BR> <DIV>Forcing multiple zone loads to move from one area of the city to another is just poor design, not "immersion" or whatever nonsense they might think it is.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Are you too good to take the quickest route between greater city zones 'the down below' like everyone else?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Sorry, I don't crawl through sewers for anyone. So, the answer to your question is, "yes, I am". :smileytongue:</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>It is getting on my nerves to have to clean my boots after the trip. The addition of bells to the greater city zones would be nice. :smileywink:<BR>

Devilsbane

09-22-2006, 01:44 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kordran wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Looker1010 wrote:<BR>So now I need to remember what machines are in which locations and who does and does not sell fuel. Sorry guys, I'll stay in the dungeon where I have all I need in one place. This is particularly an issue for carpenters who need all but the scribing desk to make their wares.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The real uproar is that it looks like they're at least testing the removal of those tradeskill zones. If it goes live, you won't have a "dungeon" to go to.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>/bonk Devs</P> <P>Do not remove the tradeskill zones. Give us choices, not take them away. :smileymad:</P>

Loredena

09-22-2006, 01:45 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devilsbane wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snapdragyn wrote:<BR> <P>For the love of the still-missing Bristlebane, WHY?! What the heck are they THINKING with this change?!</P> <P>CONS</P> <P>1) Increased lag in city zones as crafters run around.</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>For the Sake of the Gods get more memory if you worried about lag!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#6666ff>This will also affect adventurers</FONT></P> <P>2) Greater inconvenience to crafters needing multiple workstations as they'll be more spread out.</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>Only level 3-19 crafters need more the one station!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#6633ff>Really? My level 34 carpenter will be surprised to hear that -- she uses the woodworking table, the forge, and the sewing machine. And every writ she has done has used 2 out of 3.</FONT></P> <P>3) Greater inconvenience to crafters running to broker to buy components or sell items unless they add a bunch (see 'lag' above).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>In Qeynos every greater city zone already has a broker! We do need a bank branch in South Qeynos and Elddar Grove!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3333ff>Again, also an inconvenience for non-tradeskillers. My Guardian for instance is bound by the Nettleville Hollow bank, and zones into the tradeskill instance to use the broker. I'm not thrilled at the idea of going into Qeynos proper every time I want to purchase something.</FONT></P> <P>6) Greater inconvenience to crafters running to the bank for that component you forgot or just dinged into being able to use as they'll be further away (unless the plan is to add these to villages as well, thus increasing lag there also).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>Every greater city zone in Qeynos already has a bank except South Qeynos and Elddar Grove!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3333cc>My S Qeynos home owner goes to Nettleville to bank already, and the tradeskill broker there to shop. Guess it won't affect her too much, but still irritating.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Devilsbane on <SPAN class=date_text>09-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:26 </SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text><FONT color=#3366ff>Sadly, I can't think of any pros either.</FONT></SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text><FONT color=#3366ff></FONT></SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text><FONT color=#3366ff>Cons: reduced convenience. Increased lag. Increased likelihood of access to stations being blocked by caster pets stuck in doorways. Significant reduction in the tradeskiller community (as others have said, I like seeing and chatting with other crafters, and the level-up congrats). Harder writs for those who have to use more then one station. Decreased access to broker.</FONT></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

Loredena

09-22-2006, 01:48 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devilsbane wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kordran wrote:<BR> <DIV>Forcing multiple zone loads to move from one area of the city to another is just poor design, not "immersion" or whatever nonsense they might think it is.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Are you too good to take the quickest route between greater city zones 'the down below' like everyone else?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I never use the down below either. It has nothing to do with being 'too good', frankly, I get lost every time I go in there. And I would say the same is true of the Freeport equivalent. Besides, I suspect there are a few low (adventurer) level tradeskillers who would have to fight their way through every time they want/need to move around the city. Seems a bit silly to me.

Devilsbane

09-22-2006, 01:54 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Loredena wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devilsbane wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kordran wrote:<BR> <DIV>Forcing multiple zone loads to move from one area of the city to another is just poor design, not "immersion" or whatever nonsense they might think it is.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Are you too good to take the quickest route between greater city zones 'the down below' like everyone else?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I never use the down below either. It has nothing to do with being 'too good', frankly, I get lost every time I go in there. And I would say the same is true of the Freeport equivalent. Besides, I suspect there are a few low (adventurer) level tradeskillers who would have to fight their way through every time they want/need to move around the city. Seems a bit silly to me.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>How can you get lost? When you zone in one of the greater city zones is opposite of you and the other two are in the same room, as is the new Cave entrance. :smileytongue:<p>Message Edited by Devilsbane on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:56 PM</span>

Loredena

09-22-2006, 01:58 AM

<DIV>Trust me. I can get lost <STRONG>anywhere. </STRONG>It's a true skill. Or something.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My mother's favorite line about me, from when I was driving her somewhere, is "Oh, I know where we are now! I've been lost here before!"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously, there's a restaurant I've been to three times, always while lost. I'd pull in to the plaza to check my map, notice the restaurant, and eat dinner before continuing....</DIV><p>Message Edited by Loredena on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:00 PM</span>

Devilsbane

09-22-2006, 02:02 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Loredena wrote:<BR> <DIV>Trust me. I can get lost <STRONG>anywhere. </STRONG>It's a true skill. Or something.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My mother's favorite line about me, from when I was driving her somewhere, is "Oh, I know where we are now! I've been lost here before!"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously, there's a restaurant I've been to three times, always while lost. I'd pull in to the plaza to check my map, notice the restaurant, and eat dinner before continuing....</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Loredena on <SPAN class=date_text>09-21-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>03:00 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Okay you need the EQ2MapInterface!</P> <P><A href="http://maps.eq2interface.com/" target=_blank>http://maps.eq2interface.com/</A></P>

Killerbee3000

09-22-2006, 02:03 AM

they should just give us writ starter npc's for our houses, then i woudnt give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about if there are any crafting stations at all anywhere. but as that isn't going to happen just let the crafting zones open, and if some dev thinks they ugly, call up your art team and get them to redo their look.<div></div>

Nahlis

09-22-2006, 02:05 AM

I've been playing since the game opened and never did much tradeskilling up until the change that did away with sub-components. Now I LOVE to craft (have a 40th Jeweler as my highest so far). If these changes go into effect I guarantee you I'll never see another crafting level. The lag would be horrible, moving from zone to zone to get a broker, merchant, my house, armor repair, etc. is just another inconvenience. Yea, I'm just one guy, but ya asked for input... there it is.

Piltow

09-22-2006, 02:06 AM

<P>I can't believe nobody has done the math on the number of machines. We lose 7 instances with 3-6 stations each 21-42 total.</P> <P>We will now have 7 stations TOTAL for each type not 21-42. Can anybody say CROWDED?</P> <P> </P>

Kyrsten

09-22-2006, 02:22 AM

<div></div>This change sucks, please reconsider.<div></div><p>Message Edited by ShadowRayven on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:24 PM</span>

Lydiae

09-22-2006, 02:26 AM

<P>I need to see how it works out before I pass judgement. As long as a broker, writ NPC's and a fuel vendor are in the same zone it should be OK. Book vendors and a bank would be nice, but we don't have them in our tradeskill instances now, so it's a wash. I like the idea of seeing people and having them see me - might mean extra business when buyers know where to look for the crafter they need. It's kind of like setting up shop.</P> <P>It's probably a minor concern but with the extra exposure to the general population I hope there won't be crafter-hating griefers jumping up and down on top of you and what-not; distracting you from your work and generally making nuisances of themselves.</P>

Animox

09-22-2006, 02:29 AM

<P>Everytime I decide that this game cannot be broken any further, someone comes up with a ridiculous idea like this. Let's take a self-contained, easy to use location and spread it out across several zones--what a great idea! Not.</P> <P>At this point I don't really care what you add to the game, but don't subtract the instances that have worked perfectly for 2 years.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

Prrasha

09-22-2006, 02:30 AM

Aye, we've had 60-ish posts between the threads here (and a few more on eq2.eqtraders.com), and they're all negative, except for a couple "quit yer whinin'" posts that don't actually give any good reasons for this change.This deserves to go the way of the TT harvesting change. Straight into the bit bucket.At a minimum, leave the existing crafting zones as they are, including writ givers, and add this to it. That way, the crafters who want to craft in the open (that's what the test message touted, so I assume someone asked for it, even if nobody here did) can, and the other 95% of us can go about our business. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Thanks.

Snapdragyn

09-22-2006, 02:37 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devilsbane wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snapdragyn wrote:<BR> <P>For the love of the still-missing Bristlebane, WHY?! What the heck are they THINKING with this change?!</P> <P>CONS</P> <P>1) Increased lag in city zones as crafters run around.</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>For the Sake of the Gods get more memory if you worried about lag!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>Silly me, of course I shoudn't complain when the game I pay to play is changed in such a way that I would have to spend more money to keep playing it at the same quality of performance.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>(Hint: sarcasm!)</FONT></P> <P>2) Greater inconvenience to crafters needing multiple workstations as they'll be more spread out.</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>The majority of tradeskills only use multiple stations between </FONT><FONT color=#cc0000>level 3-19! Sorry Carpenters and Weaponsmiths you are SOL!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>Well that's OK since they pay a lower fee than the rest of us, right? Oh wait, no they don't! Perhaps their opinions actually DO matter then.</FONT></P> <P>3) Greater inconvenience to crafters running to broker to buy components or sell items unless they add a bunch (see 'lag' above).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>In Qeynos every greater city zone already has a broker! We do need a bank branch in South Qeynos and Elddar Grove!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>'Has a broker' != 'has a broker as close as they are in the current instances'. My comment about 'running to the broker' is still valid.</FONT></P> <P>4) Greater inconvenience to crafters buying books after a crafting ding unless they add a bunch of book vendors (see 'lag' above).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>Stations without book sellers, come on the Devs have some common sense (don't they?).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>So they're going to add a book seller for every individual station, instead of the current 1/instance entrance? How exactly is that going to make more sense?</FONT></P> <P>5) Potentially greater inconvenience to crafters in buying fuels unless they add a bunch of fuel vendors (see 'lag' above).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>Stations without fuels and supply clerks, come on the Devs have some common sense (don't they?).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>See previous comment.</FONT></P> <P>6) Greater inconvenience to crafters running to the bank for that component you forgot or just dinged into being able to use as they'll be further away (unless the plan is to add these to villages as well, thus increasing lag there also).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>Every greater city zone in Qeynos already has a bank except South Qeynos and Elddar Grove!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3333ff>See #3 above.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>PROS</P> <P>1) Getting to stare at something other than the crafting dungeon? Since I'm really paying more attention to the crafting window when I'm crafting than the scenery, I'm hard-pressed to list this as an actual pro.</P> <P>2) Um...?</P> <P> </P> <P>Guys, seriously -- please, please, PLEASE scrap this idea now! It's worth losing the fuel cost to save that harvested rare [Players' Favor]! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>A little more knowledge about the city zones and thought before you post next time please. :smileywink:</P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>The knowledge & thought that went into my post were fine, TYVM.</FONT><BR></P> <P>Did I mention we need a bank branch in South Qeynos and Elddar Grove?!</P> <P>Message Edited by Devilsbane on <SPAN class=date_text>09-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:51 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

Melena

09-22-2006, 03:14 AM

<P>First, I'll describe my typical tradeskilling and adventuring day.</P> <P>My Sage's soul is bound between the Bank and the Blood Haze Inn. I sign on in West Freeport, I check the broker in the Blood Haze Inn (where my room is also located) for my day's sales, I check my mail outside the Inn, I visit the bank to make a deposit and check/replenish my tradeskill supplies. I head to the Coalition Instance, do some writs, make some stuff, buy some advanced books on the broker and maybe a spell or two. Viola! That's it. If I decide to adventure I zone to East Freeport and catch a bell or zone right out into the Commonlands. This is the height of convenience for me. Max I zone 3-4 times.</P> <P>My Carpenter is still in the Willowood, as is her room. Her day pretty much goes like the Sage's Day. The only exception is she has to zone into the Tradeskill instance to check the broker.</P> <P>I created a character on Test just so I could form my own opinions. If this change goes live my characters will be zoning multiple times through lag infested areas. My Carpenter running from building to building to perform rush orders that have included in the past THREE different stations.</P> <P>I WOULD MUCH RATHER KEEP TRADESKILL INSTANCES. This is a horrible change.</P> <P>My only suggestion would be that if this HAS to go forward each city zone gets 1) every station 2) bank 3) broker 4)writ giver 5)book seller Optionally, the city zones need more diverse housing options. </P> <P>This will be the end of any of my tradeskillers living in the villages. Why would they? I'll give up their rooms and bind them in the most convenient city zone to do my craft - as will about 100 other people - again adding to the LAG. </P> <P>Zoning is painful and slow. The city zones are STILL laggy. Please please please don't make me zone 5-8 times when 2 times used to do the trick.</P> <P> </P>

Seffrid

09-22-2006, 03:16 AM

<P>This has all the hallmarks of a major disaster, and coming so soon afer kneeing all crafters in the groin with LU24. Bad news.</P> <P>I thought prior to reading this thread that the new outdoor tradeskill stations were going to be in addition to the existing crafting centres. Do I now understand this is not the case and that all the existing centres are going? That's crazy if true.</P> <P>Two alternative approaches make more sense in my view.</P> <P>First - re-open all the closed specialist crafting centres as normal ones. That would spread the load.</P> <P>Two - keep the existing crafting centres as they are but create duplicates when the population reaches a certain level.</P> <P> </P> <P>Listen to your customers, SOE, they don't want these changes. Where is your explanation and justification for them?</P>

Goldenflig

09-22-2006, 03:31 AM

<DIV>Immediate feedback after less than 10 minutes exploring NQ:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Summary:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Buildings need easy access in and out and AROUND. Placing crafting stations inside already small places, crowding them with the tables, placing them in buildings (furniture store) that are already laggy, is going to turn off new customers and new crafters. Feedback from 2 other guildmates (relatively new to the game) looking over my shoulder: "I'm not taking up crafting." </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The areas feel cramped, crowded and claustrophic. Not someplace I would want to spend a lot of time crafting at for hours at a time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Suggestion:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Set the crafting up outside or in one large warehouse/barn style building.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And if the stations are set up outside, consider putting all of the same ones in one location (e.g. place 3 provisioner stations outside the bakery)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Notes:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Putting obstructing tables and crafting stations<STRONG> </STRONG>inside the broker house is going to cause problems. People use horses in there already. Blocking the side to the broker (with a loom) and to the front (with a table) will create a traffic jam. Imagine characters piled in there with pets (with collision).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) The furniture store is probably one of the laggiest locations inside NQ (has memories of crashing repeatedly there everytime entering.) Placing 2 crafting stations upstairs in an extremely small area is not going to help. Someone new to the game, who does not understand how to tweak for performance is going to have issues.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) The bakery is also cramped/crowded with only 2 stoves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4) Ditto the Tailoring shop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5) The chemistry table upstairs next to the Stylist (barber/make over NPC) is a "cute" idea. Once again, concerns about crowding, cramped spaces.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good points:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like having all the crafting in one town. Reminds me of DAoC, when all the crafters hung out together in the middle of the main city [outside], chatting, being social, watching life go on around them outside, and able to sell their wares easily. When the devs put in housing, and allowed crafting inside the houses, the main cities died, and crafters felt "cut off". </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Very happy thinking about getting out of the crafting instance, without having to zone in and out constantly. Big plus.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please consider moving the stations from inside the buildings to areas outside or to one large building.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>edit:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One luxury request:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please also consider adding a "bell" or "crafting" teleporter to get from apartments/houses/other zones to NQ now. It will be quite annoying have to do EXTRA zoning through either QH---> SQ----> NQ or from homecity--->Baubble/Willow----> Elddar Grove-----NQ. Defeats the purpose of eliminating some of the zoning in/out of the crafting instance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Goldenflight on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:34 PM</span>

Rhona

09-22-2006, 03:38 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Lydiaele wrote:<div></div><p>It's probably a minor concern but with the extra exposure to the general population I hope there won't be crafter-hating griefers jumping up and down on top of you and what-not; distracting you from your work and generally making nuisances of themselves.</p><hr></blockquote>That could have an attrractive side benefit, though. The feared situation could result in the city zones becoming no-duel, no-pet, no-mount, no-fireworks, etc. zones if there were too many griefers enjoying themselves around the open-air crafting stations.The cup's still half full <span>:smileywink:</span>Rho</div>

Goldenflig

09-22-2006, 03:51 AM

<DIV>One last suggestion:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I'm guessing right, and eliminating instances is a hardware constraint issue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Consider setting up one, large, centrally located, or easily accessed CRAFTING ZONE/ CITY, similar to the lower portion of Nettleville (e.g. Nettleville Market). Or to one large crafting warehouse. Leave the TS access doors in place in the various zones, funnel them all to this one instance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not cramped, not confusing, has access to bells, bank, broker, mailbox, etcetera. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Large enough to handle the crafting population without causing lag/crowds or crafters sitting on top of each other or other players accessing non-craft related NPCs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P> <P> <P>If you are planning on keeping NQ as the only crafting zone, please consider shifting the crafting stations in/around/closer to the Ironforge Estate. Running over to get writs to the other end of town is an unnecessary time sink. Unfortunately, doing that could impact people zoning in from Elddar Grove. <P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Goldenflight on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:24 PM</span>

missionarymarr

09-22-2006, 04:09 AM

<P>I must admit if they remove the TS instances that is most likely going to make things very inconvient and the truth is this isn't what players were asking for in the first place. Players from what I have seen have been asking to get TS devices set up in some of the adventuring zones not to get rid of the instances. I really hope if they rethink this decision quickly and prove they are willing to listen to complaints from players again and at the very least not allow the removal of TS instances to go to live.</P> <P>If they do for whatever reason feel they need to remove they need to let us know why this is happening. So far it just seems to me to a stupid change with little thought to what it would cause to happen. </P>

Littl

09-22-2006, 04:59 AM

PLEASE PLEASE Don't remove crafting instances <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I like crafting in Willow Wood's crafting instance with my friends and lots of people around. It's very social and the whole reason I play this game. And I love the fun sounding music in the crafting instance. Please don't take it out.They also took out the Isle's solo crafting instance where you learn to move furniture, harvest, and craft in the basement. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Now they have the same instance as them all. I liked how it was something different. And my memory of it was nestalgic. I remember doing a heritage quest that took me back there and I was feeling very nestalgic about it. I was also very saddened when they remove the boat ride some time ago. I thought it was great for newbies to see an awesome boatride on the ocean aboard a boat.

Shazzie

09-22-2006, 05:37 AM

<div></div>Oh, you're adding tradeskill equipment outdoors in the major city zones? That's nice. Oh, you're removing the tradeskill instances in the villages? That is not nice. That is horrible. That is awful. That is... gotta stop here before I go on a spiel and get banned. So... I really, really hope you have no plan to remove those instances. I'm a Carpenter primarily, so I spend my time on 3 tables, and occassionally a 4th. I have no interest in running across an entire city zone to do my work. I want everything I need close at hand. I have that, in the instances in the villages. I would NOT have that outdoors in the major city zones. As it is, I'm often sharing a table with 1-3 other people, no matter which tradeskill instance I pick. Having far fewer tables to choose from, will mean I'll be sharing with far more, and that will become highly inconvenient. Especially when you're dealing with people on horses and carpets. Oh yes, horses and carpets. These aren't allowed in tradeskill instances. They ARE allowed in city zones. I really DO NOT want to have to deal with horse butt in my face when I'm trying to craft. Leave me my tradeskill instance. I've got everything close- all the tables I need, a vendor, a broker, and my writ givers. I do NOT want to move outdoors for full-time crafting. Not interested. At all. No horse butt for me, I get enough of it in the banks as it is. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Shazzie on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:49 PM</span>

selch

09-22-2006, 07:30 AM

<blockquote><hr>Shazzie wrote:Especially when you're dealing with people onhorses and carpets.Oh yes, horses and carpets. These aren't allowed in tradeskill instances. They ARE allowed in city zones. I really DO NOT want to have to deal with horse butt in my face when I'm trying to craft.<hr></blockquote>Oh yes <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> that's a terrible terrible issue <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Breezy

09-22-2006, 08:04 AM

This is an awful idea. Most of us avoid the bigger cities due to lag already. The new crafting areas are too cramped and crowded. Please do not take away our crafting cellars.<div></div>

Ragnaphore

09-22-2006, 08:05 AM

<DIV>If the TS instances are indeed removed it's really a bad idea.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There's not enough TS stations planned. Sure it will be fine on Test with its very low population but not on - most - live servers. Waiting for a free forge/desk or whatever isn't fun. Been there, done that in early EQ1 :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And what about the "village" brockers ? If they are removed with the instances it's going to be ugly. Even more so in Freeport as West FP is the only zone with both a brocker and a bank (and a mender and now some TS stations....)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't get me wrong, I'm not against having TS stations outside but not at the expense of the villages instances as they have far more utilities than just tradeskilling - the ones in NQ and WFP can be closed tho. </DIV>

Devilsbane

09-22-2006, 08:14 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snapdragyn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devilsbane wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snapdragyn wrote:<BR> <P>For the love of the still-missing Bristlebane, WHY?! What the heck are they THINKING with this change?!</P> <P>CONS</P> <P>1) Increased lag in city zones as crafters run around.</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>For the Sake of the Gods get more memory if you worried about lag!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>Silly me, of course I shoudn't complain when the game I pay to play is changed in such a way that I would have to spend more money to keep playing it at the same quality of performance.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>(Hint: sarcasm!)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>I suffered for 12 months, was totally shut out of QH and could not play more then two area before having to restart. I understand the lag problems. If you want to play the best graphical game either get enough memory to play it or go play the cartoonish WoW. </FONT></P> <P>2) Greater inconvenience to crafters needing multiple workstations as they'll be more spread out.</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>The majority of tradeskills only use multiple stations between </FONT><FONT color=#cc0000>level 3-19! Sorry Carpenters and Weaponsmiths you are SOL!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>Well that's OK since they pay a lower fee than the rest of us, right? Oh wait, no they don't! Perhaps their opinions actually DO matter then. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>They should have been more vocal before the revamp and had the devs cut them to one type of crafting station.</FONT></P> <P>3) Greater inconvenience to crafters running to broker to buy components or sell items unless they add a bunch (see 'lag' above).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>In Qeynos every greater city zone already has a broker! We do need a bank branch in South Qeynos and Elddar Grove!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>'Has a broker' != 'has a broker as close as they are in the current instances'. My comment about 'running to the broker' is still valid.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff> </FONT><FONT color=#cc0000>How you ever crafted in freeport, their instances have at least three floors. If you play a class without safefall you have a heck of a run up and down those stairs. I would say it is half the length of SQ.</FONT></P> <P>4) Greater inconvenience to crafters buying books after a crafting ding unless they add a bunch of book vendors (see 'lag' above).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>Stations without book sellers, come on the Devs have some common sense (don't they?).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>So they're going to add a book seller for every individual station, instead of the current 1/instance entrance? How exactly is that going to make more sense?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>We already have to zone to buy books. As for the walk to the book seller see response to #3.</FONT></P> <P>5) Potentially greater inconvenience to crafters in buying fuels unless they add a bunch of fuel vendors (see 'lag' above).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>Stations without fuels and supply clerks, come on the Devs have some common sense (don't they?).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>See previous comment.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>See #3 above.</FONT></P> <P>6) Greater inconvenience to crafters running to the bank for that component you forgot or just dinged into being able to use as they'll be further away (unless the plan is to add these to villages as well, thus increasing lag there also).</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>Every greater city zone in Qeynos already has a bank except South Qeynos and Elddar Grove!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3333ff>See #3 above.</FONT></P><FONT color=#3333ff><FONT color=#cc0000> <P>See #3 above.</P></FONT></FONT> <P>PROS</P> <P>1) Getting to stare at something other than the crafting dungeon? Since I'm really paying more attention to the crafting window when I'm crafting than the scenery, I'm hard-pressed to list this as an actual pro.</P> <P>2) Um...?</P> <P> </P> <P>Guys, seriously -- please, please, PLEASE scrap this idea now! It's worth losing the fuel cost to save that harvested rare [Players' Favor]! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>A little more knowledge about the city zones and thought before you post next time please. :smileywink:</P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>The knowledge & thought that went into my post were fine, TYVM.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>At least you are being consistant........</FONT></P> <P>Did I mention we need a bank branch in South Qeynos and Elddar Grove?!</P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>We still need a bank branch in South Qeynos and Elddar Grove!!</FONT></P> <P>Message Edited by Devilsbane on <SPAN class=date_text>09-21-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>02:51 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p>Message Edited by Devilsbane on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:15 PM</span>

Shenyen

09-22-2006, 08:15 AM

I think i can see their intention for removing the tradeskill instances - there are too many of them, getting rid of them will save hardware for the next expansion. Additionally, if they get rid of the tradeskill instances, this will be the first step for somything even better - getting rid of the villages. If there is no real use in living in a village (because you won't be able to craft there, no broker etc.) you'll move to zones like Qeynos Harbor. If enough people left the villages, they can complete something they began when they removed all those quests in the villages - removing those zones, saving hardware for EoF AND creating a need to buy the expansion, because those zones will contain quests like the removed village-quests, better places for crafting etc.And now the con's for the changes to the crafting and the possible removal of crafting instances:- More lag in cityzones, because of all those crafters crafting there- More lag in cityzones, because of all those characters at the brokers- Crafter writs (added only a few weeks ago) will be broken or much harder for some archetypes, because of their need to use more than tradeskill-thing (forgot the word^^)- Crafters have a harder time creating pristine goods, because of more lag- Crafters have a harder time creating anything at all, because of pets/horses blocking themTell us some pro's or scrap this change, alternatively, add those places to craft outside the instances, BUT KEEP THE INSTANCES, DON'T REMOVE THEM.We want MORE Options, not less!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<div></div>

LlaineDuBo

09-22-2006, 08:32 AM

I just... I can't imagine why this seemed like a good idea. I'm a firm supporter of the "all TS doors lead to one instance" idea if they make a big warehouse type area with supplies and such. I'd also be okay if they just added a particular outdoor area within the cities where everybody goes to craft (perhaps similar to the island in EFP with the fence).While the goal, as it was explained to me, is to make crafting more "social" by putting people outside... things are so friggen far apart that you're only going to be able to see the same people who would be crafting next to you ANYWAY. Might as well put in the subclass instances again.<div></div>

Pullo

09-22-2006, 08:47 AM

<DIV>This post is intended to address crafting, on test, in the current version of the build. I am not going to take the approach of others and assault the change. I wil, rather, approach this from the standpoint of what is and is not working and further, what it might take to make this approach workable. I fully realize though that the ultimate answer may indeed be: roll it back. In the interim though, I'll try to stick to constructive observations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This post comes after several hours this evening crafting with each of the crafters in my sig (all in their 50's) in North Qeynos.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Tradeskill writs are broken (which I believe is known), this hinders the ability to evaluate a number of issues.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Saygeri the Stylist in North Qeynos (sells Chemistry fuels) does not buy items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. Clothspinners in North Qeynos has an obstructed path as you move to the left on entry. Apparantly a table and the main desk are too close together blocking Barbarians from passing through.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. The chemist table (in point #2) as well as the loom and lathe in the furniture store have far too little workable space. More than two people in these areas will be packed which suggests significant problems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Recommendations</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A. More crafting stations throughout North Qeynos.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>B. Why can't the invoice tables dispense crafting writs. With the new system it just doesn't make sense to run to a writ provider on a distant side of a zone and then run back to your station to pickup the invoice. Either have the NPC in a crafting area (i.e. at the forge for armorers and weaponsmiths) dispense the writ or have the clipboard/table dispense the writ. We have other quests which begin with inanimate objects (several on the docks of Thundering Steppes), why not with this now?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>C. If everyone is being pushed out of the newbie zones into the city zones, each of the city zones need balanced services. A banker in SQ for instance would help. Basically QH, NQ, SQ, and EF should each have a broker, writ giver, and banker. As it currently stands NQ is going to get all the crafters split amongst the numerous different tradeskill instances. Better dispersion of ancillary functions in the major city zones will help a lot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>D. In the prior build, writs with multiple stations weren't a big deal. Now they are deal breakers. Carpenters, in particular, but also weaponsmiths are now in position where a certain percentage of writs simply cannot be completed as the right blend of stations don't exist in a single location. Further, you don't know which stations you need until hitting the clipboard meaning you can't pick the ideal crafting spot until it's too late. Solution - address TS writs so that they force to a single type of crafting station.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>E. Particularly if the clipboards can become 'writ givers' instead of writ advancers, it would be nice if the clipboards can then become craftable and house placeable. This will allow some people to craft/writ in their own houses if they feel lag is too significant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyhow, these are my observations as of the current build. There haven't been more than 23 people in NQ while i was crafting (and 11-13 was more common), so I can't comment specifically on lag. Also, my system has a pretty solid card and memory so I'm probably not the right person to address lag issues. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll add to this as I have better numebrs and a chance to work with writs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not conviced this is a great idea, but trying to keep an open mind...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Goldenflig

09-22-2006, 10:29 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pullo wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Recommendations</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/snip</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>B. Why can't the invoice tables dispense crafting writs. With the new system it just doesn't make sense to run to a writ provider on a distant side of a zone and then run back to your station to pickup the invoice. Either have the NPC in a crafting area (i.e. at the forge for armorers and weaponsmiths) dispense the writ or have the clipboard/table dispense the writ. We have other quests which begin with inanimate objects (several on the docks of Thundering Steppes), why not with this now?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/snip</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>E. Particularly if the clipboards can become 'writ givers' instead of writ advancers, it would be nice if the clipboards can then become craftable and house placeable. This will allow some people to craft/writ in their own houses if they feel lag is too significant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><EM><STRONG>If</STRONG></EM> this change must absolutely go forward (and I stand by my earlier suggestion to leave the TS doors in the towns near apartments/bank/mailboxes and access one large crafting zone/city/warehouse), then I totally agree with these two ideas to help mitigate some of the impact.<BR></P>

Finora

09-22-2006, 10:49 AM

<P>I am also in the boat with the people who can't BELIEVE someone actually thought this was a good idea and not only that but that they got the support to have it patched in (even on test).</P> <P> </P>

Pherra

09-22-2006, 12:16 PM

<P><FONT color=#99ccff>Ever notice how the devs will ask for our oppinion but then never give an answer to anything said in the thread they created?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ccff>Kind of gives the impression that they just pretend to care about us (the people who fill their paychecks)!</FONT></P>

ReviloTX

09-22-2006, 12:42 PM

<DIV>Yea, this change is REALLY dumb, however since I own all crafting stations for my house it won't really bother me too much. In fact, put a merchant-fuel guy in NFP and I'll be extatic. Maybe they can give me a way to charge an entry fee to my house and people can come use mine, hehe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, seriously though, this change is about hardware. They need servers for the new xpac zones, and you don't really expect them to BUY some do ya? Come on this is SOE were talking about.. just like the server mergers when KoS came out, this change has to do with money, and the TS instance servers are most likely the least used.. so they go by the wayside and we get new zones in EoF.</DIV>

missionarymarr

09-22-2006, 01:13 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ReviloTX wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yea, this change is REALLY dumb, however since I own all crafting stations for my house it won't really bother me too much. In fact, put a merchant-fuel guy in NFP and I'll be extatic. Maybe they can give me a way to charge an entry fee to my house and people can come use mine, hehe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, seriously though, this change is about hardware. They need servers for the new xpac zones, and you don't really expect them to BUY some do ya? Come on this is SOE were talking about.. just like the server mergers when KoS came out, this change has to do with money, and the TS instance servers are most likely the least used.. so they go by the wayside and we get new zones in EoF.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I rally hope they give us an explanation if this must go forward. I also really hope it is not this one I keep hearing to save hardware for the expansion. I have a real problem with that. Unless they are then willing to give the expansion away for free. I mean one of the reasons we pay for expansions is so they can add the additional hardware they need to handle the new zones and other stuff they are adding to the game. <BR></P>

missionarymarr

09-22-2006, 01:26 PM

Nilliam

09-22-2006, 01:45 PM

This is a really horrible change. That is all. <div></div>

FininCuthalion

09-22-2006, 01:47 PM

<div></div><font color="#ffff00">Well... you can put in as many crafting tables as you want, and where you want... but please DO NOT remove the crafting instances!</font>

Allowin

09-22-2006, 02:00 PM

i guess it was a good idea to quit TS'ing after all. i quit making armor shortly after they nerfed playermade items to the point they are worthless.they are phasing out ts'ing as we move along. i dont exactly know why (other than the fact thats how 90% of the money in this game got here) so i guess they want us to go adventure to get money now. but if this was the plan, why wait till now to change everything.......nevermind. i forgot this is sony were talking about.first they made player made items worthless. then they made it to where you loose money if you craft something and sell it to the vendor. then they noobed up ts'ing, then they did away with seperate zone inside city's, then they removed the neutral crafting stations (goodbye everfrost crafting) now they are removing crafting zones all together.....is everybody just blind or do you not see where this is heading?the idiot dev whos in charge of the ts'ing must have been teased as a child or his mom made him wear homemade clothes to school or something. but this by far is the dumbest in a long line of dumb ideas/nerfs to ts'ing.mark my word. the world of ts'ing (as little of it thats left) will soon be a very distant memory.now only if they put as much time into banning botters/farmers as they do trying to find way to screw the game up.....i would be happy.<div></div>

Allowin

09-22-2006, 02:18 PM

also, let me run some numbers by you brain dead devs.your saying there will be 6 scribe tables in the entire server for a sage to use?. 2 in north qeynos and 4 in south qeynos?thats 6 tables for a entire population of sages from qeynos?/who all sage listed over 100 names (capped at 100, so there could be anywhere from 101 to thousands) on a thursday night at 2:00 am cst on my server.now you figure the population picks up 10-20X on weekends. being its everybody's off day. now you figure in over 1000 sages on a server at any given time on a weekend. and lets say 5% of all sages on the server whos logged in want to craft. you have 50 people trying to use 6 stations?so on a given day, your going to have an average of 10 sages per crafting table...explain to me how exactly this is a good idea?you better make crafting tables very very very cheap from the city merchant (400k status and 1pp is not even close to a goal somebody can achieve) or your going to p.o a TON of people.....seriously. to the dev who thought this up, are your subscription numbers so high that your willing to give up even more so you can live out this dream?<div></div>

Kordran

09-22-2006, 03:11 PM

<DIV>No question that it's a bad idea, but calling the developers "brain dead" is counter-productive. I think they're getting the picture that this should not go in the game as-is; there's no need to insult them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Stormdove

09-22-2006, 03:52 PM

<P>I would like to suggest that anyone from live who is following this thread please make a test character for the purpose of testing this. If we can get enough people on the server to actually show them how crowded/inconvenient/laggy this would be on live maybe we can get the instances put back in. I like Willow Wood, I like living there, I don't want to have to basically live in NQ and never see my room again <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It's not so bad for my test characters but my live characters--its just going to ruin how they live <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It was bad when they closed down all the instances but one in WW, I had to start crafting in Ironforge Exchange because of the lag and it just felt wrong. I always felt they were maybe going to do a redesign of the instances or something, I was waiting for them to be put back in because it was just intolerable to think they were going to leave it the way it was. And now to remove tradeskills/brokers entirely from the neighborhoods?</P> <P>Please put crafting back in the villages. This is where our characters LIVE. We don't want to lose our homes, some people are saying you are aiming to remove the villages, this would take so much out of the feel and flavor of the game. To remove the tradeskill instances and villages to make room for expansions is so not right. Every longtime subscriber who plays the game for the sake of the game (nothing against the get to level cap as quick as possible guys, but they are going to hit cap and move on) has a favorite zone or zones for their characters to live in. Mine is Willow Wood. My husband prefers Graystone Yard. My gnome actually prefers Baubbleshire although she crafted in Willow Wood before it got too laggy. Others have said they prefer Castleview Hamlet. To take crafting away from the village is to take away a large part of my characters lives from their homes. </P> <P>Please listen, I moved to EQ2 in November 2004 after playing EQ1. These are the only mmo's I've ever played. This is what I do to relax and recharge from the stress of everyday. Don't take away crafting from the villages.</P>

Kizee

09-22-2006, 03:55 PM

<P>Once again SOE is changing stuff just to change stuff. :smileyindifferent:</P> <P>Really bad change...keep it as it is please.</P>

Wingrider01

09-22-2006, 04:01 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devilsbane wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snapdragyn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devilsbane wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snapdragyn wrote:<BR> <P>For the love of the still-missing Bristlebane, WHY?! What the heck are they THINKING with this change?!</P> <P>CONS</P> <P>1) Increased lag in city zones as crafters run around.</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>For the Sake of the Gods get more memory if you worried about lag!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>Silly me, of course I shoudn't complain when the game I pay to play is changed in such a way that I would have to spend more money to keep playing it at the same quality of performance.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>(Hint: sarcasm!)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>I suffered for 12 months, was totally shut out of QH and could not play more then two area before having to restart. I understand the lag problems. If you want to play the best graphical game either get enough memory to play it or go play the cartoonish WoW. </FONT></P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I am sure that a lot of players would love to put more memory in my systems - what is your credit card number so you can buy it for them? Don;t reference the old adage that if you can't afford the memory maybe you should not be playing the game - EQ2 stand alone or station access is still the cheapestROI of any form of entertainment.</P> <P>Remember not all people have the disposible income to allow purchase of the additional memory, not to mention the fact there are motherboards and systems still in use that the chipsets only allow 1 gb of memory with a mazimum stick size of 512meg.</P> <P>The is the classic IBM attitude of the 70's - if ot does not perform well, through more hardware and money at it. </P> <P>The fact is this change will make both trade skilling and walking through the city zones a nightmare, there are already issues with tradeskilling and the reactive spells used for them due to server / client / instance response time degregation.</P> <P>Maybe a better alternative would be to lower the cost of the in-room high end trade skill stations to next to nothing and remove the required status to purchase them. Would not mind putting the stations I need into my mains room and letting all my toons have access to the stations</P>

Dessellion4

09-22-2006, 04:36 PM

<P>Solved it - I know why they're doing it. The changes to the ts system were so successful that everybody's crafting and no one's adventuring. Now they need to get everyone out of crafting and back on the adventure trail.</P> <P>Must be it.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>BUT IT'S BLOODY STUPID!!!!</P>

StevusX

09-22-2006, 04:48 PM

<DIV>I dont suppose there is any chance of some one quickly getting a job at SOE and, oops, wiping their hard drives before this goes live ? :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can not believe what a bad idea this :smileymad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Don't remove TS instances please, change them, improve them, DON'T remove them.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Really really getting fed up with soe's mucking about with TSing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>TSing used to be a significant part of my play, alas no more...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As other people have said - if you want us out of the "dungeons" then put outside TS areas in other zones - The villages in Antonica, Thundering steppes, Commonlands, Rivervale, Majdul, etc and by the docks in LS, EF, and so on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So much more sensible.</DIV>

Xylian

09-22-2006, 05:07 PM

<P>Everyone is missing the real point of the change - This is not so much about the forced removal of tradeskill instances from the starter zones but the removal of "convenience" from those starter towns and 1 room apartments. They are moving that "convenience" factor to the city proper and to 2-3-5 room houses in those zones to give players a reason to trade-up houses and regain the "convenience" that most crafters have enjoyed for almost 2 years. Notice how the writ givers are only in the city zones with more expensive houses? Notice how the bulk of the tradeskill devices are in the same two zones with a few exceptions and none are in the zones with 1 room apartments?</P> <P>This really is just SoE adding another money sink into the game in the name of "convenience". </P>

Ebjelen

09-22-2006, 05:11 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pherra wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#99ccff>Ever notice how the devs will ask for our oppinion but then never give an answer to anything said in the thread they created?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ccff>Kind of gives the impression that they just pretend to care about us (the people who fill their paychecks)!</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This is normal. First you ask for feedback and then you <STRONG>LISTEN</STRONG>. It's only been 24 hours or so. That's actually too short a time to get any info back from the devs. How quickly everyone has forgotten the the discussion and tweaking that went on during the last GU.</P> <P>I don't like the idea of moving into the city zones at all. I run an nVidia 5900 chipset that already stutters in the city zones. I can live with it for now, but worry about the consequences of having to spend more time in the 4 city zones.</P> <P>I understand that this move will reduce the number of active city zones freeing up some hardware/db space. With the removal of 36 crafting instances in GU26, the devs probably got a good feel for how much resource they would be freeing up. But then every one was still moving into other crafting zones. The remaining 12 crafting zones were not shared and so were able to handle the crowding a bit better.</P> <P>My guess is that since we haven't created multiple instances of any of those TS zones, SoE feels they are under-used and can therefore be shut down. Hey, that hacker-n-slasher department has to earn their pay somehow.</P> <P>I don't really know how much the lag will increase. It's a smaller jump this time: 48:12 in GU26, thats a 4:1 ratio; 12:4 this time that's only a 3:1 ratio.</P> <P>P.S. I'm purposely leaving out the society instances. I'll think about the math a bit more.</P>

madha

09-22-2006, 06:03 PM

<P>So are the TS instances gone forever or just a bug lots of people are asking and noone has said a thing useualy you guys drop a nugget trying to explain bugs that effect people's playing, but not a peep. While the minnimum memmory specks on the box be changed casue noone with the system on the EQ2 box will be able to craft, i have a family to feed not going to spend a ton of money upgrading just so i can craft. And who asked for this change non of the Devs craft and they are usualy the ons who put stupid changes out that noone asked for..</P> <P> </P> <P>Maybe you got feedback that the TS zones where boaring and old, and you came up with this sloppy solution. People like the zones add paint put some paintings in.. Make a contest to design a pretty TS instance that doesnt lag. Remove the 8 or 9 rooms in the TS instances and shrink them down a bit, remove the doors and wallkway to the alchamy tables.. Do you realy need a room of 6 stoves, Can you put the forge any farther away? How many tailor tables do you need ina zone? In other words put some effort into reduing the zones. You can make the zones anything just keep them a TS intance zone, bring them above ground but still a zone.</P> <P>What happens to the crafters when a guild desides they have had it with the lvl 70 epic 4 pally gaurds and decides to teach them a leason? or when Pets get stuck in doors and people cant leave? Or when people try to greif the crafters by dueling close to them? or when the brooker in Q harbor breaks down casue 400 people are using him at the same time?</P> <P>You might want to say if this ias a bug or intended realy fast people are a bit ticked off.</P>

Kasandria

09-22-2006, 06:11 PM

<P>I will miss The Baubbleshire and Starcrest a lot. You know that is where all this is going. If they were just trying to force folks to move into bigger housing they would set limits on how long a toon could live in the starter houses. So then, how long will it be until they decide that Qeynos and Freeport could be just one big city? After all, Maj'dul and the new Kellethan will be just one zone. Obviously, this game is slowly dying if they can't afford to actually expand the game during an expansion. </P> <P> </P> <P>Adding some stuff to the city zones to make them more convenient is a fine idea. But if I'm right then the variety and interesting scenary currently available will be going away, the convenience of TSing is pretty much dead, along with writs. </P>

Khrunk

09-22-2006, 06:17 PM

<DIV>i like my tradeskill instance this is the lamest idea ever for removing them, a sick sick joke</DIV>

DeathEater024

09-22-2006, 06:20 PM

<P>For me I dont mind having to craft out in the open so much but what I do wish is they had every kind of table in every zone. With me not being able to sell a lot of the merchandise we make now, minus the really good rare stuf that seems to me if you price it for profit but reasonably you sell every time, and remembering that not everyone has a level 70 toon, that can spend 1g a week, forcing us to get houses in differnt zones is messed up. I was getting ready to buy a house in west freeport but I do most of my crafting on my provi now, and west freeport dosnt get a keg. I dont want to have to zone in to a differnt place to craft, then zone to a differnt area to sell. It just dosnt seem right. I dont know but I loved my zone, in longshadow witch is why all mycharacters find there homes there. I dont mind I guess crafting wherever but can I get my "CALL TO THE OVERLORD" spell to take me into my new home zone instead of the starting village.</P> <P>BAH, when did they add binding LOL I feel like a dope. </P> <P>For the love of good if you are going to take crafting out of the starting towns in freeport at least open up the colelation of trades folk zones and keep them open for those of us that love to craft in the basement. </P> <P>If not I guess I'll just be spaming writs untill I can buy some stuff to put in my house,lets see thats a lot of writs for a loom, akeg, a forge, and thats just to get started. BADDDDD IDEAAAAAAA PY PRECIOUSSSSSS BRING ME THE ROOTSESSSS</P><p>Message Edited by DeathEater024 on <span class=date_text>09-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:42 AM</span>

Finora

09-22-2006, 06:39 PM

<DIV>After running around a bit on test again, trying to find the new locations for stuff (basically pretending I was a newbie who didn't have friends in game). The crafting tables are inconvient. They would be quite hard for anyone new to the game to locate unless they asked or ran around or read about them on the message boards (not typically anything I would want to have to do when I first get a game).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Their placement in the buildings around town is no different from a visual point of view than crafting in our dungeons. This isn't a change to allow crafters to 'craft outdoors' in open spaces. That is for sure. They are in far more cramped and no more visually</DIV> <DIV>appealing areas than the old instances. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I doubt that the lag for the entire zone will change much, I do know that I will have to turn down my graphics settings if I ever hope to do any crafting at any of those stations though. I can't even imagine the lag that my wood worker would have trying to craft at that table in the SQ broker room. I lag just going in there to check the broker. Not to mention that room was too small before when people are in there using the broker. It is going to be a nightmare with the crafting stations and that table. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I keep crashing upon zoning/hitting various and sundry commands/ etc so I'm done playing on test for the moment, but I never did find a stove and keg in Qeynos nor is a location for stove and keg listed on the Dev list for Qeynos. Surely Qeynosians can cook still?</DIV>

Aevarine

09-22-2006, 06:39 PM

<P>That has to be one of the worst ideas i've heard. Apart from making even more lag in already lagged as hell zones, we'll now have to do even more running around(unless their idea to fix the economy mess-up from the tradeskill changes is to put us off crafting completely).</P> <P> </P> <P>I'm perfectly happy with the Instances thanks(although moving those trainers inside would be great so we don't have to keep zoning in and out to get new recipes).</P> <P> </P> <P>Though the major services in each zone(like a bank in SQ <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) and easier travel between zones would be great.</P>

DeathEater024

09-22-2006, 06:45 PM

<P>Blah and not to mention the NPC's that talk inside certain buildings, would you like to by something today. BLAHHH</P> <P>Personally unless you are going to set these zones outside and nothing different buildings what's the point. :smileysurprised:</P> <P>Message Edited by DeathEater024 on <SPAN class=date_text>09-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:45 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by DeathEater024 on <span class=date_text>09-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:49 AM</span>

Aevarine

09-22-2006, 06:50 PM

<DIV>After reading the bit about new people trying to find things, it reminds me a LOT like EQ1. So, we're going back to the 500+ people shouting "Where's the loom?!" etc(I remember having to try to find the crafting equipment in Kelethin, that was a nightmare).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, while we're complaining about TS Instances: Those doors are just a pain(In the head usually as it closes in my face for the 20th time). How about archways or something(or just pulling them off the frame, before we do, lol).</DIV>

Bozidar

09-22-2006, 07:02 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Calendri wrote:<BR> <P>I am also in the boat with the people who can't BELIEVE someone actually thought this was a good idea and not only that but that they got the support to have it patched in (even on test).</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed. It's actually such a bad idea i'm laughing about it. I can't see it for myself, but i've read enough. this is one of the bigger poop-nuggets i could imagine them laying..<BR>

Noaani

09-22-2006, 07:29 PM

<DIV>I dont craft on my only toon on test, so havn't really had a chance to test this out, but after reading this thread, and the others, I have a few things to say.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This change, in and of itself, seems rather pointless. You are taking people out of zones that are (compared to other zones) rather empty, and dumping them in zones that are already full and lagging at peak times. Also, you are taking the convenience of having a broker, fuel and book merchant within seconds of crafting stations away from everyone that crafts. If things go the way they are now, you are also making certian writs a lot harder for a few TS classes, to the point where some will not be completeable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, I am willing to bet this is just part of a much bigger plan. If you add crafting stations to places other than the city propper zones, that will help address lag a lot. Add crafting stations to the racial villages, add them to The Crossroads, add them to Windstalker Village, Thundermist Village, Rivervale, Maj'Dul, the Windgazer Hideout, those tent sites in Feerrott near the entrance, everywhere. Even turn the forge room in Permafrost in to a place weapon and armor smiths can work in relative peace. Also, let people buy writ givers for their houses. Fuel merchants would also be nice, but not nearly as important as writ givers, since fuel merchants should go in to all city zones. Probably the best thing you could do with this change, however, and as much as it has been thrashed before, put in guild halls so people can craft in peace there. Make it so guilds can have everything they need for crafting, TS merchants, brokers, writ givers and bankers. And more importantly, do it at the same time you take the TS instances away. Not a few GUs after.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I like the idea of being able to run through a city zone and see crafters hard at work, it adds a lot to the immersion from an adventurers point of view, but forcing it on everyone that wants to craft is not the way to go</DIV>

Kizee

09-22-2006, 07:33 PM

<DIV>If they go thru with this lamebrained idea I hope they double the times it takes for the timed writs since we will have to put up with huge lag.</DIV>

Loredena

09-22-2006, 07:41 PM

As someone has been a developer, and now a systems analyst, for 20 years. I'm going to go to the basics here, a question we have yet to see answered by the development team.What is the problem you are trying to solve?Knowing that would go a long way towards evaluating the solution. Right now, this change looks like a solution in search of a problem. Certainly this isn't a change I've ever noticed being requested by the players.<div></div>

Lexli

09-22-2006, 07:57 PM

<div></div>Double post.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Lexli on <span class=date_text>09-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:59 AM</span>

Lexli

09-22-2006, 07:58 PM

Please do NOT implement this. As if lag and travel time aren't enough of a reason to avoid the big cities, now you are going to crowd god knows how many people in the zones and make it worse?I was so happy when the last tradeskill changes went in (new combine system). My wife and I have been leveling all of our crafters to 70 to get ready for EoF. If this is actually put in the game, there is no way in hell we will do any sort of crafting. If you MUST put these things in, please do NOT [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with the instances.<div></div>

DeathEater024

09-22-2006, 08:19 PM

<DIV>"Hermit Crafters Rejoice" Crafting stations and brokers have been removed from your beloved starting zones, along with melting the ice flow, this was done to get you outdoors and out into the world. <P>Except I am in a smaller space with less stations to craft at, and still inside. </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>That was just a fake line but it would be just like that for the update notes I bet. Worst Idea for crafters ever. Why don we just lower all the stats on everything we make again especially mastercrafted cause its way better then fabeled gear. BLahhh</FONT></P> <P>:smileywink:</P></DIV>

Maroger

09-22-2006, 08:46 PM

<DIV>Why won't they give us a reason why they are doing this. I know they have the power and they can do anything they want -- and to hell with what the players think even though they ask us our opinion that is just a sick joke on their part.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I haven't read one message from someone who likes this -- any chance it won't go live??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why<FONT color=#ff9999> </FONT><FONT color=#66ff33>DO THEY WORK SO HARD TO KILL TRADESKILLING</FONT>?????</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Aevarine

09-22-2006, 08:57 PM

Maybe they're trying to fix the "everything overstocked and underpriced" problem by making it so hard or annoying to craft that we won't do it anymore.

lyndonuk

09-22-2006, 09:25 PM

Why the hell place TS things in zones with no banks!Why the hell add more lag to the already lagging city zones!How about you get some brains?<div></div>

Kordran

09-22-2006, 09:27 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kasandria wrote:<BR> <P>So then, how long will it be until they decide that Qeynos and Freeport could be just one big city? After all, Maj'dul and the new Kellethan will be just one zone. Obviously, this game is slowly dying if they can't afford to actually expand the game during an expansion. </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm fairly sure they'd never actually merge Qeynos or Freeport (or in reality, eliminate one, since they're on separate continents). However, if they could work out the technology to combine all of the zones in the city without massive lag, then heck ya. I'd love to see them as big as they are, but completely zoneless in the interior. Multiple zones to get from one area to another is a serious annoyance, so the approach that they've taken with Maj'Dul and (apparently) Kelethin will be the right one. Of course, compared to Qeynos and Freeport, Maj'Dul is extremely small. More of a "hamlet" than a city.</P> <P>As far as them expanding the game, the word is EoF is going to add more than 20 zones, with zones for all tiers. Presumably you'd be able to level from 1 to 70 and never leave Faydwer. I call that expanding content. :smileytongue:</P>

Maroger

09-22-2006, 09:43 PM

<DIV>How about doing something that players would really like!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Lowering the prices on the Elaborate in-house crafting stations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Make the crafting stations available to non-guildies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. Abolish Times writs ( no one can finish them with all the scattered TS stations)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. Raise the reward on the untimed writs as that is all anyone will have the time to do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff99>Here is what I know you developers REALLY want to do.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1, Make tradskilling so unrewarding, so time-consuming that players will drop it and then you can remove from the</DIV> <DIV>game altogether. Think of the money and maintenance costs you will save!!:smileymad::manmad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And while you are at it, how about giving us the REAL reason for the nerf instead of the BS you put in the patch notes!! If you think anyone believes that reason, I have a bridge I want to sell you!!</DIV><p>Message Edited by Maroger on <span class=date_text>09-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:45 PM</span>

Kordran

09-22-2006, 09:57 PM

<P>I don't know that the price (in gold) for elaborate stations needs to be reduced, but the status requirement is pretty high for casual players. Aside from doing any HQs, 500K status is about 100 writs (more for lower level folks, less for higher level) and of course, it also requires that you also be a member of guild. For just one item, I can see where that would be daunting.</P> <P>I'm sure some folks here will say that 500K status is nothing; for people who are members of high level guilds, who have done a lot of HQs and are used to grinding writs, true enough. But for a player who's in their 20s and just interested in crafting in their one room apartment, it's a serious obstacle to something that would make that aspect of the game more fun for them.</P> <P>Of course, if they did reduce or eliminate the status requirement, you'd hear howls of protest from the other side of the fence. It's kind of a no-win situation for SoE at this point and probably best to just leave it as-is.</P>

ReviloTX

09-22-2006, 10:31 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Loredena wrote:<BR>As someone has been a developer, and now a systems analyst, for 20 years. I'm going to go to the basics here, a question we have yet to see answered by the development team.<BR><BR>What is the problem you are trying to solve?<BR><BR>Knowing that would go a long way towards evaluating the solution. Right now, this change looks like a solution in search of a problem. Certainly this isn't a change I've ever noticed being requested by the players.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Your not going to get an answer to your question, because they don't want you to know the answer. But I've said it once in this thread already so let me repeat, they need more servers for the new zones in the xpac.. that's the problem they are solving.

Rijacki

09-22-2006, 10:36 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Kordran wrote:<div></div> <p>I don't know that the price (in gold) for elaborate stations needs to be reduced, but the status requirement is pretty high for casual players. Aside from doing any HQs, 500K status is about 100 writs (more for lower level folks, less for higher level) and of course, it also requires that you also be a member of guild. For just one item, I can see where that would be daunting.</p> <p>I'm sure some folks here will say that 500K status is nothing; for people who are members of high level guilds, who have done a lot of HQs and are used to grinding writs, true enough. But for a player who's in their 20s and just interested in crafting in their one room apartment, it's a serious obstacle to something that would make that aspect of the game more fun for them.</p> <p>Of course, if they did reduce or eliminate the status requirement, you'd hear howls of protest from the other side of the fence. It's kind of a no-win situation for SoE at this point and probably best to just leave it as-is.</p><hr></blockquote>I don't grind nothing but writs (and my eyes would bleed if I did) and I raid (getting status for named kills), but I still have only been able to afford ONE crafting station. I have bought very very few status items, too. I am not a casual player, I jsut -hate- grinding the same exact thing for days and days and days and days and.... which is necessary if you want more than one elaborate station (or some of the higher titles) and are obtaining it on your own. In fact, I plan to "level lock" my wizard at 64 as soon as she reaches it so I can do the Easy Button writs to get some items.The cost of the elaborate is VERY prohibitive.</div>

HazlenutElf

09-22-2006, 11:01 PM

<DIV>Just want to add my voice as one that thinks this looks like a bad idea for all the reasons already stated, the lag, the inconvenience, everyone crowding around 2-3 stations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you have a reason for doing this and a plan for replacing the lost instances, crafting stations and brokers please tell us. Otherwise, please leave what few crafting instances we have alone. Adding more is fine but please don't take any away.</DIV>

Eueadan

09-22-2006, 11:17 PM

<P>Glendral,</P> <P> </P> <P>I don't know if this is the case, but I am BEGGING you to please leave the tradeskill instances in the game. I am NOT suggesting that this change should not go though, I am just asking that you consider leaving the tradeskill instances in as an alternative for people to use.</P> <P>I hope the reasoning for this is obvious:</P> <P>(1) Crafting involves periodic "crafting events" that you have to counter/respond to within a set period of time.</P> <P>(2) Zones like Qeynos Harbor, South Qeynos, etc. are so horrendously laggy for many of us, that you can sometimes barely move in them. Personally, I use the down under to travel through Qeynos because the lag is so bad. Lag makes it IMPOSSIBLE to counter tradeskill events.</P> <P>(3) Crafting instances, on the other hand, are small zones that exhibit virtually no lag. This makes it painless to craft, because you don't have to worry about lag messing up your mastercrafted items. I love the crafting instances for this reason.</P> <P> </P> <P>Please, please, PLEASE do not remove the crafting instances in this change... You have no reason to take them out (if people do not want to craft in the instances, they can use the city stations you are adding) and every reason to leave the crafting instances in the game (because many of us love the instances and WILL use them).</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Eueadan on <span class=date_text>09-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:24 PM</span>

Jaimster

09-22-2006, 11:30 PM

<P>I would love to try the changes, but I keep forgetting that trying to get the game unwindowed or checking my persona info boots me to desktop immediately <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Soooo, I will just add that for bad ideas this one seems to take the cake.... unless we are all mistaken in the belief that they are removing the tradeskill instances in the towns altogether. And if you're going to "keep us out of the dungeons and in fresh air" actually do that please, instead of squeezing us into buildings... for example, North Qeynos, the guy outside with the anvil, banging away at armor or a weapon... stuff like that would be very cool, but only if they are in an open space and not upstairs in a teeny tiny room.</P> <P>There are so many open spaces in Elddar Grove and North Qeynos especially that you could set up equipment in if you must do this. </P> <P>But crafting in the rain? Are you serious? Who in their right mind would do this?</P> <P>Maybe there's some rhyme and reason to all of these changes (that is for the betterment of players), but you might want to enlighten folks before they get really upset and angry at the thought that this change will go live. From this perspective, with no other comments or responses or info, it's a bloody moronic change.</P>

BK613

09-23-2006, 12:10 AM

<div></div>Just want to add my voice to the hew and cry NOT to remove the crafting instances. No crafting instances IMO, because of the lag, will probably kill TSing in this game. Which is a pity because TSing just now, with the writs and removal of the sub-combines, became interesting to do. <div></div>

Generic123

09-23-2006, 12:28 AM

<P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff>While there are certainly some wrinkles that need to be ironed out this change is an absolute necessity if this game is going to survive. <SPAN> </SPAN>The biggest single problem with EQ2 and the reason why it will shortly have fewer subscribers then EVE is that the game seems empty even with lots of people logged in. <SPAN> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>A successful MMO *NEEDS* hubs of activity. <SPAN> </SPAN>Cities that actually mean something and places you go where you see crowds of other people otherwise you may as well be playing a single player game.<SPAN> </SPAN>Currently the biggest activity hubs are buried in dungeons and spread out in the suburbs so most people never see them.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3><FONT color=#ffffff>Lag can be dealt with, vendor and bank positions can be dealt with, even equipment locations can be dealt with but empty cities are the kiss of death for an MMO because it leads people to believe no one plays. <SPAN> </SPAN>EQ2 desperately needs to bring people into it’s cities and create a vibrant lively atmosphere.<SPAN> </SPAN>This is one huge step in that direction and it can’t come soon enough for my liking, even if there are going to be some short term problems that need to be addressed.</FONT> </FONT></P>

Eueadan

09-23-2006, 12:52 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Generic123 wrote:<BR> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Currently the biggest activity hubs are buried in dungeons and spread out in the suburbs so most people never see them.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>A couple of responses:</P> <P>(1) Crafters are not statutes, art, or other such "pretty things" that should be used to improve the look of the environment for others. They are REAL PLAYERS, just like non-crafters. They have just as much right to enjoy their game as you do, and should be allowed to craft wherever they want (whether that is in a dungeon or otherwise). There is absolutely no reason to punish crafters and make their lives harder just so that you, personally, can see some people standing motionless by a crafting station as you run by. I'm sorry, but I think that is dumb.</P> <P>(2) Lag is not "easily fixed." If that is the case, it would have been fixed a LONG time ago. When I began playing this game at launch, there was no lag at all in Qeynos Harbor (at least on my computer). Now the devs have added SO much crap to that zone through all the expansions and the such, that (using the EXACT same computer and configuration) I can barely move in it. It has been that way for months, and if I were a betting man, I would wager the lag will continue to increase there throughout the next year without being fixed. Adding more stuff (i.e. crafting stations) is only going to exacerbate the problem, especially if every crafter in the game is forced to craft in the main zones.</P> <P>(3) To my knowledge, the ONLY places you can find brokers are the towns. The ONLY places you can pick up writs is in town. The ONLY place you can sell items is in town. The ONLY place you can buy (most) things is in town. I'm sure there are a bunch more "only's" that I don't have the patience to think of right now.</P> <P>All of those are vital activities that force most players into town at least once a night. Why isn't that enough?</P> <P>(4) If Qeynos and Freeport are becoming less populated, I submit to you that it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with crafting. People have been using crafting instances since launch, and nothing has changed that has caused more people to migrate there. Instead, the Devs have, by adding Maj Dul and the Exile town, DOUBLED the number of towns for people to hang out in. Moreover, because Maj Dul and the Exile town are (a) cooler looking, and (b) newer, than Qeynos and Freeport, it only makes sense that lots of players are hanging out there instead of the main towns.</P> <P>In fact, the problem is only going to get worse with the next expansion, as the addition of Kelethin will give a 5th town for people to live in.<BR></P> <P>(5) Considering that Qeynos Harbor, South Qeynos, and North Qeynos are some of the laggiest zones I have seen in the game due, partially, to the huge number of players that hang out in them, I totally disagree with your premise that there is no "hub" that people visit in EQ2.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Eueadan on <span class=date_text>09-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:56 PM</span>

Rast

09-23-2006, 12:56 AM

<DIV>Just when I think crafting can't get worse...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm dumbstruck by the idiocy of the devs... Not only will this increase lag for EVERYONE, but also compresses the number of stations that are available down even further. Remember, we used to have 4 zones in each newbie village with 3+ stations for each type. That was 12+ stations per starter town and there are what? 6 starter towns? So that was a total of 72+ stations of each type... Now they are going to have a grand total of 7 per type???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And those who say crafting isn't dying, look at the complete compression of our areas and then think again. We are seeing in the BEST case a 90% reduction in crafting area from the pre LU24 patch. Of course you are going to see a lot more people, you could lose half the crafters and STILL see more because the crafters have less and less choice...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*shakes head in disgust*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is amazing how far something can fall when the PTBs get it in for it eh?</DIV>

Aeslyn

09-23-2006, 12:58 AM

<DIV>I was really hoping they were going to put in a "bazaar" type area, where there would be everything you could need/want for crafting in one place (tables, writ givers, order benches, banker, broker)... a wide open area with tents set up, where customers know they can go if they are looking for a crafter, and easily find someone with a LFW tag up at the appropriate station.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe even add a title for crafters after a certain level "the Carpenter" or whatever that goes on when LFW.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This spread all over the place stuff is a mess. And yeah, I'd be one of those people crafting on my horse (because I like my horse). And I agree, it's going to be ugly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Better to turn all those doors in the sub-zones to point at one big bazaar area. Make it pretty. Give us lots of stations, no doors, and all the stuff we need. Make it better, or at least good. Not worse. Please.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Maroger

09-23-2006, 01:10 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Generic123 wrote:<BR> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff>While there are certainly some wrinkles that need to be ironed out this change is an absolute necessity if this game is going to survive. <SPAN> </SPAN>The biggest single problem with EQ2 and the reason why it will shortly have fewer subscribers then EVE is that the game seems empty even with lots of people logged in. <SPAN> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>A successful MMO *NEEDS* hubs of activity. <SPAN> </SPAN>Cities that actually mean something and places you go where you see crowds of other people otherwise you may as well be playing a single player game.<SPAN> </SPAN>Currently the biggest activity hubs are buried in dungeons and spread out in the suburbs so most people never see them.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3><FONT color=#ffffff>Lag can be dealt with, vendor and bank positions can be dealt with, even equipment locations can be dealt with but empty cities are the kiss of death for an MMO because it leads people to believe no one plays. <SPAN> </SPAN>EQ2 desperately needs to bring people into it’s cities and create a vibrant lively atmosphere.<SPAN> </SPAN>This is one huge step in that direction and it can’t come soon enough for my liking, even if there are going to be some short term problems that need to be addressed.</FONT> </FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Not sure what you may have been smoking, but this will really make EQ2 look empty. All these crafting stations in town with NO ONE at them. Also not sure how a chemistry station in the 2nd floor of the mages building will make the town look busy. Also many of these crafting stations are tucked away, hiding in buildings -- not sure how that makes the town and the game look busy.</P> <P>The Newbie zones <FONT color=#cc0033>WERE ALWAYS BUSY AND FULL OF PEOPLE</FONT>. This seems designed to make them less full of people and un-busy. So now a newbie arrives from this island to an absolutely deserted zone -- how is that supposed to help!!</P> <P>This is NOT an necessity as it will still make Freeport look empty -- also you may be dreaming of a PoK type center -- but it ain't going to happen unless they bring back the real PoK.</P> <P><BR> </P>

Jerr

09-23-2006, 01:48 AM

<P>Another bad idea that takes no consideration of the crafting community. Please give us some Dev's who actually craft and like this part of the game.</P> <P>Getting very tired of the continual shaft. If you remove the instances and only allow us to use these outside stations, that will only prove we have people in charge who have zero interest in crafters and the role they play in EQ2.</P> <P>And I thought nothing could be worse than LU#24.</P> <P>Cheers,</P> <P>Jerril</P>

Kasandria

09-23-2006, 02:04 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kordran wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kasandria wrote:<BR> <P>So then, how long will it be until they decide that Qeynos and Freeport could be just one big city? After all, Maj'dul and the new Kellethan will be just one zone. Obviously, this game is slowly dying if they can't afford to actually expand the game during an expansion. </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm fairly sure they'd never actually merge Qeynos or Freeport (or in reality, eliminate one, since they're on separate continents). However, if they could work out the technology to combine all of the zones in the city without massive lag, then heck ya. I'd love to see them as big as they are, but completely zoneless in the interior. Multiple zones to get from one area to another is a serious annoyance, so the approach that they've taken with Maj'Dul and (apparently) Kelethin will be the right one. Of course, compared to Qeynos and Freeport, Maj'Dul is extremely small. More of a "hamlet" than a city.</P> <P>As far as them expanding the game, the word is EoF is going to add more than 20 zones, with zones for all tiers. Presumably you'd be able to level from 1 to 70 and never leave Faydwer. I call that expanding content. :smileytongue:</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Appologies I meant that Qeynos would be one big city and Freeport would be one big city. While that might seem fun to you it sounds like a lot of lag to me. I like the hamlets. They have a much nicer feel.</P> <P><BR> </P>

Lilj

09-23-2006, 02:06 AM

<P>I went into Test with one of my crafters. The TS instances in the villages are gone as of now, I will assume they really intend to remove them.</P> <P>I then went to NQ to check the zone out. Sneeds is the most logical place to craft, the shop has a broker, the bank is close by and it has several stations. And when I stood there I realized I would never craft there.</P> <P>Sneed's has 1 alchemist table, 1 loom, 2 engraving tables and 1 jewelerbench (and 1 woodbench outside). I then imagined stuffing the whole TS instance I know from Willowwood in there plus all the people at the broker inside Sneeds little shop and I shivered. Then I imagined all the pets, horses and animals that would also follow and I cried.</P> <P>For the first time ever I begin to wonder if I should stop crafting.</P> <P>I can only join the growing amount of people saying 'please don't implement this', please don't.</P> <P> </P>

Raveller

09-23-2006, 02:07 AM

<P>How many months have you been whining about crafting for now, Jerril? Nine or ten? I lost track.</P> <P>While I think eliminating the factory dungeons and scattering crafting stations around town is a good idea, I think a better idea would be to make personal crafting stations more accessible by offering non-guilded versions for purchase. We have non-guilded housing options, and non-guilded horse options, so why not non-guilded crafting station options? Anyone ever found out the logic behind crafting stations (and there is no purpose to stations less than the highest quality) having the highest status point cost of any item in the game and also requiring guild level 25?</P>

Lydiae

09-23-2006, 02:17 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xylian wrote:<BR> <P>Everyone is missing the real point of the change - This is not so much about the forced removal of tradeskill instances from the starter zones but the removal of "convenience" from those starter towns and 1 room apartments. They are moving that "convenience" factor to the city proper and to 2-3-5 room houses in those zones to give players a reason to trade-up houses and regain the "convenience" that most crafters have enjoyed for almost 2 years. Notice how the writ givers are only in the city zones with more expensive houses? Notice how the bulk of the tradeskill devices are in the same two zones with a few exceptions and none are in the zones with 1 room apartments?</P> <P>This really is just SoE adding another money sink into the game in the name of "convenience". </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Come on now, why? Because they can turn virtual mone into real dollars? :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>Anyway, the more I think about it, though, the more apprehensive I am about having horses, pets and carpets in my face when I'm trying to craft. I hate when people keep them up when they visit the bank/merchant/broker as it is.</P>

Seffrid

09-23-2006, 02:55 AM

<P>I don't expect the devs to make a final decision on any of this at this stage of the testing, but I do strongly feel that this thread alone, not counting the others just like it, has reached the stage where someone ought to come on here and explain the reasoning behind the changes and the perceived benefits of them.</P> <P>I've played pretty well every MMORPG there is, have frequented pretty well every forum, and read a good many threads about planned changes in those games, and I don't off-hand recall a single issue that attracted such unanimous criticism. There is virtually not a single person that wants these changes, and there's certainly not a single person that truly understands the reasons for them being put forward (although there's some interesting speculation in this thread).</P> <P>All the other changes that have happened to this game over the last couple of years attracted posts on both sides of the argument, these changes have only produced a critical side, no-one has felt able, it would seem, to come up with anything sensible that is remotely positive about them. Even the NGE changes to SWG had some supporters, not many it's true, but some. These changes have none.</P> <P>It's time for an explanation, please.</P><p>Message Edited by Seffrid on <span class=date_text>09-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:57 PM</span>

WinterHotfoot

09-23-2006, 03:17 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> missionarymarr wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pherra wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#99ccff>Ever notice how the devs will ask for our oppinion but then never give an answer to anything said in the thread they created?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ccff>Kind of gives the impression that they just pretend to care about us (the people who fill their paychecks)!</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I am of the opinion that is not a fair statement to make about this thread just yet. I don't like the change myself yet look at what time the thread was created. Also look that they also posted a message saying the testing of this change was being put off until monday. Therefore I would wait until sometime tomorrow before I would really get to mad about them not responding to the complaints in this thread. <BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Well, now that this change has been posted on the EQ2Players site as being a done-deal (check the GU28 Preview), I think it is now more than fair to make that statement. The fact that this change was announced to the world before even testing it hints that they intend to push it through, despite what you think of it. That they made a public announcement before addressing concerns here pretty much solidifies that hint into evidence. Most likely, the only thing they want test to do is to find out which of the new stations and vendors are bugged.

Looker1010

09-23-2006, 03:18 AM

My eyeballs are bleeding but I just read every post in this thread. Never has the playerbase been so united, so in agreement about anything as their view of the crafting changes currently on test.There is virtually universal agreement that this is a monumentally bad idea that must not be implemented. We don't care what the reasons are; the end result is the same no matter why you are doing this SOE. Crafters have been the proverbial redheaded step-children from day one in EQII when we all discovered that, regardless of promises made, pure crafters were not a viable class. We learned to live with that and the many crafting changes made in the past two years, some good some not. This change, and the loss of the original crafting instances, is something most of us cannot and will not live with.My personal view is that a weekend of silence, with no input from the devs, will only fuel the misery and outrage.

Zaldor

09-23-2006, 03:39 AM

<P>Well, this has the potential to be the last nail in the coffin. If this goes through...my desire to play this game any longer will go the way of the tradeskill instances...</P> <P>One more vote for "do not remove the tradeskill instances"...</P> <P>I liked going to a specific place to tradeskill...</P> <P>What's next? Gnolls...orcs...and other mobs in town to kill so you don't have to go "way out into distant lands" to kill them? </P> <P> </P> <P>Zaldor - SOE really puts the FU in FUN</P>

Wyrmypops

09-23-2006, 04:20 AM

<DIV>Another voice here, adding to the united players, a barely audible cry of "<EM>Don't do this</EM>!"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm incredulous. That any one person could have thought this was a in any way a good idea. But to have had other dev's agree, and put it to test... amazing. </DIV> <DIV>At least, having been on test, and feedback given, it can be taken as an unwelcome change the ramifications noted - thus, not gone ahead with. Right? That is a purpose of the test server as much as ironing out code issues.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I actually <EM>ain't</EM> bothered about a dev landing to explain the thinking behind it. Quite evidently, the playerbase are not cretins and <EM>have</EM> considered the ramifications, and there's blatantly many negatives. What I want is a dev landing to say "<EM>sorry, yeah, dumb idea, moving on</EM>." </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it's a server/cost issue to do with the expansion. We're paying for the expansion already.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it's a convenience issue regarding the suburbs and central city zones, make the suburb TS instances more like sweatshops and the central TS instances more attractive options. Use more of the faction schtick with the central instances, dependant of varous status factors, sell cheaper fuel to reinforce the idea. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If people have complained about the TS instances. Reread the compaints. Remove the doors from inside Qeynosian TS instances. Put in elevators to the Freeport instances. Whatever. Address the concerns, don't throw your hands in the air in give up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Honestly, this is such an obvious and epic bad idea, do the devs get checked out for Corporate Sabotage? Any getting a second paypacket from Blizzard or something? </DIV></DIV>

SideshowBob

09-23-2006, 04:24 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Liljna wrote: <P>I went into Test with one of my crafters. The TS instances in the villages are gone as of now, I will assume they really intend to remove them.</P> <P>I then went to NQ to check the zone out. Sneeds is the most logical place to craft, the shop has a broker, the bank is close by and it has several stations. And when I stood there I realized I would never craft there.</P> <P>Sneed's has 1 alchemist table, 1 loom, 2 engraving tables and 1 jewelerbench (and 1 woodbench outside). I then imagined stuffing the whole TS instance I know from Willowwood in there plus all the people at the broker inside Sneeds little shop and I shivered. Then I imagined all the pets, horses and animals that would also follow and I cried.</P> <P>For the first time ever I begin to wonder if I should stop crafting.</P> <P>I can only join the growing amount of people saying 'please don't implement this', please don't.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <FONT size=6>Q F E</FONT></P> <P>Every single word of that post is EXACTLY how I am feeling right now. Right down to the wondering for the first time ever if I should stop crafting. </P> <P>I also just logged off the test server, to see for myself first-hand what they have done to the crafting instances and these new 'outdoor' stations.</P> <P>First off, I traveled to Baubleshire - where all my toons crafted, regardless of their race. Yep, the crafting instance door was gone. Completely.</P> <P>Then I went to Qeynos Harbor. And tried finding the crafting stations. It was atrocious. A single stove in the QH Inn? Stuck in the corner where two people were standing in front of it crafting. I can only imagine how much fun it's going to be trying to get to that station with 5 people on horses, carpets, and with their pets crowded around. </P> <P>I also had the exact same feeling that I get when I come upon a node that someone else is already harvesting. I did NOT want to craft at that station. Some people may like feeling crowded and cramped, and standing on top of one another, but I don't. And that was just with two people at the station. It already looked crowded. One was a Barbarian and the other was a High Elf. Imagine how Freeport will be with Ogres and some of the other larger races... Two of those toons can effectively take up an entire table. Add their huge horses into the equation, and NO THANK YOU!</P> <P>I also found the QH chemistry table in the Alchy shop. One table... I never did find any other types of crafting stations, but I'm sure once I am forced to look for them, I will. Hopefully there will be at least one of every type of station in every zone. Also never did find the writ giver or the crafting trainer. But I'm sure we will find them once we're all forced to. :smileymad:</P> <P>I seriously fail to see the reason for this change. It's horrible, HORRIBLE! And I do speak from first-hand experience, like many others here in this forum, and like EVERYONE else who is giving their opinion on the change that forces us out of our convenient crafting zones.</P> <P>For those of you who disliked the doors in the Qeynos crafting instances -- get used to more doors. Every crafting station was in some kind of building. Which leads me to the next point: The Devs have basically tried to put lipstick on this PIG of an idea by saying, "Hey look, all those potential customers will be able to witness your crafting skillz because you're all going to be out in the open (like some heifer on an auction block? Like some trained monkey in a circus?)" No they're not. We're still going to be behind closed doors.</P> <P>Why not do as someone else said a few posts ago: MAKE CRAFTING BAZAARS? An area out in the open under brightly colored tents, with several of each type of crafting station, writ givers, fuel and component vendors, a broker -- you know, basically those things we already had in the instances. Maybe make it like a Craft Fair? Make it kind of like the merchant area in Qeynos harbor, where you can find the armorers, tailors, etc who sell the non-player crafted goods. I don't know... It's just that <STRONG>ANYTHING</STRONG> has got to be better than this current clusterF*u@k.</P>

FaerieKiss

09-23-2006, 04:32 AM

<DIV>Add me to the list: please please, put the tradeskill zones back in. Sure -add- them out in the major city districts, it is nice to have options, but please - add the zones back in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hildy</DIV> <DIV>Test Server</DIV> <DIV>Unholy Trinity</DIV>

Magic

09-23-2006, 04:38 AM

<P>Not meaning to buck the trend, I'd like to wait until the change actually happens before I knock it. In my crafting experiences, I've never, ever, seen more than three other players in the same crafting instance with me. This is in Stonestair Byway and Graystone Yard. I can't imagine there being any appreciable lag with so few crafters in the same area. But if pets and rides do cause lag, it would be polite for their owners to dispell them while in the crafting area. Let's hope that everyone is polite.</P>

Colin

09-23-2006, 04:47 AM

<P>There is nothing I can add here that hasn't already been said, and much more eloquently and civil than I ever could. My feelings about these proposed changes, is best left unsaid. Suffice to say, I think this is a horrible idea and it boggles the mind that not only one dev thought it was brillant but they actually got approval from supervisors.</P> <P> </P> <P>I was really looking forward to EOF but now, I doubt I'll buy it. Why give soe any more money to support getting the shaft? May start looking into that "other" game with the soon-to-be-released date approaching.</P> <P> </P> <P>edited to remove unnessary venom</P> <P>Message Edited by Colin52 on <SPAN class=date_text>09-23-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:53 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Colin52 on <span class=date_text>09-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:55 AM</span>

Eueadan

09-23-2006, 04:49 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aljola wrote:<BR> <P>I can't imagine there being any appreciable lag with so few crafters in the same area.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The problem is that the lag is ALREADY there... That's why I think it is crazy that they are actually trying to "play test" this. You can log onto any server and run through Qeynos Harbor, and you will lag (that is, unless you have the fastest computer on the market). This is BEFORE crafting stations or extra crafters are even added to the zones.</P> <P>It just doesn't make sense that they wouldn't just add the new stations (without taking the old crafting instances out) and let players choose what best suits them. That way EVERYONE gets what they want.<BR></P>

Goldenflig

09-23-2006, 04:49 AM

<EM></EM><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aljola wrote:<BR> <P>Not meaning to buck the trend, I'd like to wait until the change actually happens before I knock it. In my crafting experiences, I've never, ever, seen more than three other players in the same crafting instance with me. This is in Stonestair Byway and Graystone Yard. I can't imagine there being any appreciable lag with so few crafters in the same area. <FONT color=#ccff00>But if pets and rides do cause lag, it would be polite for their owners to dispell them while in the crafting area. Let's hope that everyone is polite.</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>I've stopped crafting in Castleview with my High Elf, because I don't enjoy sitting 3-4 deep at every loom. I end up in Baubbleshire, being very very careful to sit while I'm in front of any NPCs (in the crafting instance and in the bank) so I don't obstruct them from any shorter characters nearby. Luckily, all the rest of my tribe of crafters are either gnomes or halflings, so we are rarely more than 1-2 per station at worst.</P> <P>As for horses/pets and people being polite:</P> <P>I would encourage you to find the several threads on the Gameplay forum where there are people advocating for autodismount<EM> inside buildings only. </EM>The posters that disagree have mostly resorted to attempts at shaming, denial, name-calling and in a one case, an even stronger stance on now deliberately staying mounted because ot the concern.</P> <P>Given the overall maturity level of this game compared to others, it was sad reading; I no longer pin hope on politeness of other players. :smileytongue:</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Goldenflight on <span class=date_text>09-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:53 PM</span>

Talona

09-23-2006, 05:01 AM

Adding my 2p...I don't like this in it's current state. I also can't see anyway to make me like it.On a live server, i can imagine how crowded and laggy this will mkae crafting.There has to be a better way to do THIS!Well I'm saying that, what is THIS? What is the goal of doing this?

Devilsbane

09-23-2006, 07:49 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wingrider01 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devilsbane wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snapdragyn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devilsbane wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snapdragyn wrote:<BR> <P>For the love of the still-missing Bristlebane, WHY?! What the heck are they THINKING with this change?!</P> <P>CONS</P> <P>1) Increased lag in city zones as crafters run around.</P> <P> <FONT color=#cc0000>For the Sake of the Gods get more memory if you worried about lag!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>Silly me, of course I shoudn't complain when the game I pay to play is changed in such a way that I would have to spend more money to keep playing it at the same quality of performance.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff>(Hint: sarcasm!)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>I suffered for 12 months, was totally shut out of QH and could not play more then two area before having to restart. I understand the lag problems. If you want to play the best graphical game either get enough memory to play it or go play the cartoonish WoW. </FONT></P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I am sure that a lot of players would love to put more memory in my systems - what is your credit card number so you can buy it for them? Don;t reference the old adage that if you can't afford the memory maybe you should not be playing the game - EQ2 stand alone or station access is still the cheapestROI of any form of entertainment.</P> <P>Remember not all people have the disposible income to allow purchase of the additional memory, not to mention the fact there are motherboards and systems still in use that the chipsets only allow 1 gb of memory with a mazimum stick size of 512meg.</P> <P>The is the classic IBM attitude of the 70's - if ot does not perform well, through more hardware and money at it.</P> <P>The fact is this change will make both trade skilling and walking through the city zones a nightmare, there are already issues with tradeskilling and the reactive spells used for them due to server / client / instance response time degregation.</P> <P>Maybe a better alternative would be to lower the cost of the in-room high end trade skill stations to next to nothing and remove the required status to purchase them. Would not mind putting the stations I need into my mains room and letting all my toons have access to the stations</P> <P><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>A crafter's job is to make equipment (hardware) that allows players to better battle mobs. So if we used your attitude...</P> <P>Give all your plat away to non crafters so they can afford better equipment! No wait a sec not all classes can fight every mob with the same effectiveness. So lets have the devs nerf the mobs so everyone can kill them with the same effectiveness.</P> <P>Talk about classic antiquated attitudes..... :smileytongue:</P> <P><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

Arwen0

09-23-2006, 10:06 AM

<P>Here is my 2c on the new tradeskill changes.</P> <P>This is the WORST change I have seen yet to the game!</P> <P> </P> <P>How is placing workbenches in already small and crowded buildings better than the tradeskill instances?.......IT ISN'T! This will only make matters worse for crafters. The tradeskill instances were just fine the way they were. Imagen how crowded and laggy it will be with 10-20 players in the jewelry shop in NQ at one workbench all trying to craft at once. It WILL be a disaster!</P> <P> </P> <P>I have read many posts where people say get more ram, get a faster machine if you have lag issues. Well while that can help, it will not cure all lag! Lag is caused by many different factors like network traffic/speed, how much of a load the server has, computer hardware, ram, etc. Lag is also caused by how well the graphics engine can render the content. The more pollygons you render, the higher lag is likely to be, plain and simple.</P>

Jerr

09-23-2006, 10:19 AM

<DIV>But Arwen-Raveller said he liked the idea-of course that's one person out of 78 so far. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Raveller-who pulled your dummy chain? Why the personal attacks-of course that's nothing new for you. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seeing as how your the only one who likes the new idea, I guess i'll put your ideas where everyone usually puts them-in the garbage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>cheers,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jerril</DIV>

Eueadan

09-23-2006, 10:52 AM

<P>Ok, I hopped on the Test Server and spent 5 or so hours playing with this tonight...here are my initial thoughts:</P> <P><U>Initial Stuff:</U></P> <P>I rolled a new character to play on tonight, figuring it made some sense to start from the beginning...most crafting after 30 is the same as the rest, and I'm sure that will get tested a bunch. I rolled the char in Qeynos, and I spent most of the night in South Qeynos (I will do NQ another night).</P> <P>My system specs: P4 3ghz, 1 gig ram, Radeon 9800 pro graphics card (128 ram), 300 gig raid0 HD</P> <P> </P> <P><U>Implementation (for those that havent hopped on TS yet):</U></P> <P>As Glendral said, the new stations are located in shops and stores in N. Qeynos, S. Qeynos, Eldaar Grove, and Qeynos Harbor. However, Eldaar Grove and QH only have a handful of stations in them, so I seriously doubt many people will actually craft there. NQ and SQ have some of EVERY station, so I everyone will craft in one of those zones by default (i.e. they will be too lazy to look up which zones have which, so they will migrate to the zones that have all). South Qeynos has houses, so I see it becoming the main hub.</P> <P>I thought the overall implementation was good. The locations of the stations were intuitive: If you need a forge, you go to the armor/weapon shop. If you need a loom, you go to the general goods shop (where they sell backpacks). Knowing the layout of SQ by heart, I found it mostly easy to find the stations without having to look anything up (with a couple of exceptions).</P> <P>In SQ and NQ, there are 3-4 of every type of crafting station, and they are generally much more spread out than they were in the crafting instances. I have no idea how crowded these things will get when the instances go away and everyone flocks to them, but the number of stations didn't bother me at all tonight.</P> <P>By or near crafting stations, there are 2 things: (1) a merchant who sells fuel (filaments, candles, etc), and (2) a work order clipboard to retrieve your work order (I believe this replaces the desk). 75% of what you need is nearby...so far so good.</P> <P>One note on the merchants...In the Herb Jar, there is a "Jewelry" merchant by the workbenches that sells CANDLE fuel. It takes COAL to make Jewelry. I assume that is a bug. If you are testing these things, you might run around and check the merchants to make sure the devs got the right fuel on them.</P> <P>On the far east side of South Qeynos (in front of the fountain of storms), I found an area where there were 4 crafting NPC in a row: the Crafting Trainer, the Rush Order Person, the Work Order Person, and the Tradeskill Delegate. They are easy to find and get to once you know where they are.</P> <P>NOTE: To be clear about crafting instances...they are GONE as of tonight. The doors to them have been removed, and they don't currently exist on test.</P> <P> </P> <P><U>My General Overall Comments:</U></P> <P>(1) I didn't hate the new stations. I thought they were implemented well and kinda cool at times. I made armor in an armor shop....kinda cool. Given time, I might grow to like them.</P> <P>(2) I did, however, hate the running... As an example, lets say you are a scribe. The work order NPCs are located on the FAR EAST side of SQ. The only scribe tables in SQ are located in the mage tower on the FAR WEST side of SQ. Now, my new character isn't high enough level to do work orders....yet. However, I did run the noob crafting quests, including the scribing portion, and back-and-forth back-and-forth back-and-forth running across the whole length of the zone was annoying.</P> <P>(3) There is no bank in SQ. Considering the rare stock that I keep in my live crafters' banks, and my tendency to get to the crafting station having forgotten something I need from the bank, that is going to be annoying beyond all compare. SQ needs a banker (unless I am blind and you already put one in).</P> <P>(4) I also don't think there is a broker in SQ, at least not one that I saw. Not critical, but further increases the Forrest Gump forever run-ning.</P> <P>(5) Since the stations are in houses, you are still staring at a wall. Not much of a scenery change from the crafting instances if you ask me.</P> <P>(6) The current implementation is going to drive noobs NUTS. On the isle, you get a quest to talk to a tradeskill delegate. With all the changes, new players will arrive in a suburb of town (1) with a note that tells them to "visit one of the following tradeskill societies" (none of which exist anymore), and (2) no tradeskilling representatives within 3 zones. How does the noob find the delegate? When the noob does find the tradeskill delegate, they are told to make something at a crafting station. How do they find the crafting station? Nothing tells them where to look. Even better, when they get to crafting station, the recipes call for coal, candles, filiments, etc....how do they figure out where to get those?</P> <P>I know this isn't rocket science, and that any person of average intelligence should be able to figure it out. However, as most players know, possessing average intelligence does not keep people from asking (I won't say dumb) questions in /ooc. Not that there is anything wrong with asking questions, but this is going to increase the noob spam quite a bit.</P> <P>(7) Lag. As predicted, it's there, and it's annoying. For most of tonight there were a total of 50-80 people on the WHOLE test server. There were only 2-6 people in SQ each time I looked. However, South Qeynos still lagged me pretty bad several times.</P> <P>As an aside, before I get a dozen wise cracks on lag: Yes I have optimized my graphics settings as much as I can. Yes I have defragged my hard drive. Yes I have updated my graphics drivers. No I am not going to turn my graphics settings any lower...it doesn't help, and if I wanted crappy graphics I would play WoW. No I am not buying a new computer. My system is 2 years old, and is the same or better than most people playing EQ2, if the devs can't fix the lag then they don't need to be making the problem worse by adding stuff to laggy zones.</P> <P>While crafting tonight, there were several times tonight I would get huge lag spikes and end up clicking on my backpack 4-5 times to open it. There were several times I would have to push the button for a crafting buff 2-3 times before it would work because of lag. There were several times crafting would "hang" through a lag spike and I would totally miss a crafting event (as well as the opportunity to counter it). In the all the running, I would generally lag like mad, which tended to drive me nuts.</P> <P> </P> <P><U>Overall:</U></P> <P>I generally liked the new stations. For the shops they sat in, they spruced things up. Cool idea.</P> <P>To me, all the running wastes precious game time, and that is something I really don't have enough of. Over half of my crafting experience tonight involved running from place to place. I'm not sure I want to be forced to do that on a nightly basis.</P> <P>I think the TS change is bringing to light a problem that most players don't report: Lag. For me, unfortunately, SQ, NQ, and QH are just constantly and consistently laggy. In my experience, they are laggy for a BUNCH of other people too. Most of us don't know anything about lag, and it's really hard to /bug "the screen is hopping around please fix it," so I assume no one is reporting it. In my case, I have been fighting lag in these zones for over a year and never report it...I just try to avoid the zones as much as possible.</P> <P>Tonight, the lag wasn't SO bad that I wanted to turn the game off. However, it was bad enough that it had me really annoyed several times. Considering that these new stations are going in, it might be worth a look....</P> <P> </P> <P>Off to bed with me...I hope this helps...</P><p>Message Edited by Eueadan on <span class=date_text>09-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:55 AM</span>

Calthine

09-23-2006, 11:13 AM

<P>A nice review</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eueadan wrote:<BR> <P>(4) I also don't think there is a broker in SQ, at least not one that I saw. Not critical, but further increases the Forrest Gump forever run-ning.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The broker is in a building across from the stables - there's a loom upstairs, and a WW table and another station downstairs.<BR></P>

baka-neko

09-23-2006, 01:55 PM

@Eueadan : Very nice review.My system is about equal to yours and I usually avoid zoning to the <i>bigger</i> parts of Qeynos and Freeport because I do not like my client lagging in there.Lag just does not <i>feel</i> right in a fantasy world.Well, the lag aspects aside, on what purpose have the TC-Instances been closed?When I first read the update-notes telling me I could craft outside I thought that it was a cool idea (wich I still believe it to be), but after realizing that this would take away all the TC-Instances I didn't get why any game-designer should even think about it.Honestly, I spend a lot of time within those instances, and a whole lot of other people do as well.Not only for crafting, though I really craft a lot, but I also go there to check the broker very frequently.So the only reasonable conclusion for me is, that the TC-instances are currently redesigned so that every suburb gets its own look-and-feel instance, like smaller crafting-tables in the Baubbleshire and Temple-Street or even a completly new crafting-desk for the still-to-be-introduced new crafting-profession coming with EoF.In hope of the best, fearing the worst, we'll probably have to wait for an answer from the devs ... or the next Patchlog telling us, that the gnomes opened up our TC-Instances again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Lakaah

09-23-2006, 02:36 PM

Just adding my voice to the chorus of No's.This will cause lag in North and South Qeynos to be unbearable, especially in conjuction with the lack of brokers in the hamlets. I also have little desire to have horse patties dropped on my head while I'm crafting..<div></div>

madha

09-23-2006, 03:26 PM

<DIV>DId they get enough negative feedback on this to revert the change or said anything about it being a bug? <BR>Does /feedback and /bug work in test yet?</DIV> <DIV>My wife has decided to not play if she is made to craft in lag, i think its more her problem with SOE deleting zones and doing a slight of had thing saying look we fixed a long standing problem, wich i have never seen as a problem. </DIV> <DIV>Pretty soon people who dont pay their rent on their apartments on time will find all their hosue stuff sitting in the mail box and their house closed, or their house stuff deleted,,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>HAs blackguard left yet or does SOE not have a community relations person yet? havent had any consturctive posts on this and alll the post started by the Tradskill devs i doubt he looks at.</DIV>

Allowin

09-23-2006, 03:52 PM

<div></div>you can also start getting ready for them to close down even more multiple instance places. they merged the servers so they could use those to make pvp servers. they didnt plan ahead for the release of kos by adding any hardware. thats why the lag in most kos zones are beyond playable.they are getting ready to release a new expansion with even more zones and areas to explore. they are closing down all the ts'ing zones to scab off hardware space for those new zones. they are trying to get away from adding any new servers and raise cost for a game that has a slowly dying population.and for those of you who dont know, sony has purchased the rights to host the new game vanguard: saga of heros. im sure there will be even more "areas" that will be getting skimped out on to free up more bandwidth/hardware for that game.the lag in any raid zone is just stupid as is. i raid euro times and my server is lucky enough to have only 1 end game euro guild. we pretty much have the zones to ourself most days. but ask any cst/pst guild what its like trying to do DT while 2 or 3 other guilds start zoning in. the lag gets so bad that alot of mobs are pulled and either die or the raid wipes before 1/2 the people know whats happened. not to mention the overload that causes the zones to crash on a regular basis. i cant count the times ive seen labs or another T7 raid zone crash and watch my friends list go crazy with log in/outs only to be followed by a rush of curse words and general slander remarks towards sony in the 60-69 or 70 channels. locked out for 5 days 20 hours on a zone because sony keeps gimping the hardware to try and save money.lets call a spade a spade sony and for once in this games history tell the truth. your closing down the ts zones to free up hardware for the new expansion. just like you merged the servers to make room for the new pvp and exchange servers.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Allowin on <span class=date_text>09-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:54 AM</span>

missionarymarr

09-23-2006, 04:54 PM

I must admit this lack of response from the devs is getting annoying. I mean it has been over a day and we haven't even had a DEV come and give us a reason why they are removing the TS instances. Wake up devs with this many complaints it is over due to respond to what the people paying your company to play this game are saying.

Kasandria

09-23-2006, 05:05 PM

I had not even considered the loss of brokers. Unless they allow purchasing from your market board in your room this is a game stopper. Imagine all the folks shopping on Sunday mornings and you trying to TS...<p>Message Edited by Kasandria on <span class=date_text>09-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:06 AM</span>

selch

09-23-2006, 05:14 PM

First of all I want to end this debate from my side by offering following:a.) Crafting outside is a good idea...b.) Crafting inside city zones is a bad idea... (LAG, mounts blocking, pets blocking)c.) Crafting in suburbs might be a good idea if no-mount, no-pet, no-duel (no-pet exception of PVP) inside suburbs could be implemented again, suburbs are often smaller and no need for minutes of run from a table to another.d.) Brokers outside in suburbs is also nice.

Wingrider01

09-23-2006, 05:22 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devilsbane wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> <P>A crafter's job is to make equipment (hardware) that allows players to better battle mobs. So if we used your attitude...</P> <P>Give all your plat away to non crafters so they can afford better equipment! No wait a sec not all classes can fight every mob with the same effectiveness. So lets have the devs nerf the mobs so everyone can kill them with the same effectiveness.</P> <P>Talk about classic antiquated attitudes..... :smileytongue:</P> <P><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>ROFL this was a very long reach for a response, still cannot figure out exactly what your response is supposed to mean. exactly what does it have to do with real life hardware that technically cannot be upgraded or players that do not have the readily disposible income to make a purchase of additional memory?</P> <P>Talk about left field responses<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

Caliphon

09-23-2006, 05:43 PM

<div align="left">Add my voice to those that <b>hate</b> the current crafting changes on test! Also, i dont know when this update will go live but it just occured to me that Halloween is coming up...and with halloween comes all the events in NQ (haunted house, etc.) If its anything like last year,,the entire server population is going to be in NQ and SQ , either doing halloween quests or trying to craft. Oh joy.... </div>

Bratface

09-23-2006, 05:59 PM

Why the change?While I do not like having to zone into the crafting zones I sure don't want them spread out all over the place.Why not just take all the stations and NPC's out of the crafting zones and put them in their hamlets, so each small city and everyone can have access to them all in a convienient location?What about people who group for power regen, with a chanter or bard? This mass spreading out of the crafting stations will totally ruin that option since they are so far apart.As player with every tradeskiller there is this is a nightmare of logistics trying to work without a centralized location with a handy bank.Honestly, for a game that says it wants to promote community and social interactions this is the worst thing you could do.<div></div>

Eueadan

09-23-2006, 06:12 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Calthine wrote:<BR> <P>The broker is in a building across from the stables - there's a loom upstairs, and a WW table and another station downstairs.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Thanks Calthine <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I remembered where the broker was in SQ as I was drifting off to sleep, but was too lazy to get up to make the correction :p</P> <P>Kinda funny...I'll bet that broker currently almost never gets used on the live servers. I'll bet that be becomes THE broker most crafters after this change... :p<BR></P>

Rijacki

09-23-2006, 07:00 PM

<blockquote><hr>Eueadan wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Calthine wrote: <div></div> <p>The broker is in a building across from the stables - there's a loom upstairs, and a WW table and another station downstairs.</p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Thanks Calthine <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <p>I remembered where the broker was in SQ as I was drifting off to sleep, but was too lazy to get up to make the correction :p</p> <p>Kinda funny...I'll bet that broker currently almost never gets used on the live servers. I'll bet that be becomes THE broker most crafters after this change... :p</p><hr></blockquote>Those who already have houses in SQ use her, she is quite busy most times of the day on Guk right now.<div></div>

Nari

09-23-2006, 07:03 PM

I really don't like this idea.<div></div>

Eueadan

09-23-2006, 07:19 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Rijacki wrote:</P> <P>Those who already have houses in SQ use her, she is quite busy most times of the day on Guk right now.<BR><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Are you being a house snob Rijacki? :p (just kidding)<BR>

kenm

09-23-2006, 07:53 PM

<div></div>Just when I think SOE can't think of anything to make crafting any worse they come up with crap like this.Can't wait to see what they come up with next.<div></div>

DeathEater024

09-23-2006, 08:25 PM

<P>I just thought when they said ourside and all over norath they ment that Places like the crossroads and maybe nek docks, or enchantedlands would have TS added in an outside of a building inviroment. Whats the point of moving them from one building to another. NO point this is a total mess. I have liked a lot of the changes since release and have not liked a few normally I learn to live with it. </P> <P>If this goes live I will be buy crafting stations for my house and mailbox to send fuel and raws, and I will just hermit myself in my own lag free zone. </P> <P>I wouldnt even mind if you added them to other zones but why kill the ones we have it makes no sense at all.</P> <P>Blahhh</P> <P>P.S. I dont want to sound like I am getting down on the DEV's you guys have a hard job and you can never make everyone happy. I dont like this idea but I would love to thank you for all the hard work you guys do put in.</P>

Finora

09-23-2006, 08:56 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eueadan wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Calthine wrote:<BR> <P>The broker is in a building across from the stables - there's a loom upstairs, and a WW table and another station downstairs.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Thanks Calthine <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I remembered where the broker was in SQ as I was drifting off to sleep, but was too lazy to get up to make the correction :p</P> <P>Kinda funny...I'll bet that broker currently almost never gets used on the live servers. I'll bet that be becomes THE broker most crafters after this change... :p<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>/chuckle</P> <P>That broker is hopping most times I'm on line. Not quite at bad as some others (the old willow wood one comes to mind) but almost always a few people there, mounts pets and all.</P>

mutschml

09-23-2006, 09:01 PM

<DIV>Why are all people so upset about SQ and QH? This sounds like Freeport doesn't even exist.</DIV> <DIV>So let me give you my comment about the situation in EFP. I just tried to go through the Tradeskilling quests in EFP.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The stations are more or less intuitive placed, each close to their shops. Except the sewing tables which are located in the furniture shop. While all stations are available pretty close together around the center, the stove and keg are placed down at the water in the inn. Thats logical but impractical, since it will require more running to the delegate for the quest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One bad thing is, the desk and workbench in the 'Trader's Holiday'. While there is a merchant in there, he only sells general goods, and no fuel. So I ran all around the area in search for a sage to buy the incense I need, and I actually found another desk (above Kirsteh the with), but the only merchant there was an alchimist (Zizwold). So no incense available in EFP.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besides the lack of incense, there is no banker in EFP. So that would require much running around.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Being a Euro player on an US Server, and FP based, I can't really speak about lag. So far the highest amount of people at the same time in a Tradeskilling instance was about 10 people.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think if I had the choice, I would still prefer the old instances. The new locations mean:</DIV> <DIV>- broker is further away</DIV> <DIV>- banker is further away</DIV> <DIV>- fuel vendor is usually closer</DIV> <DIV>- still need to find the guy who gives the writs. Every zone should have at least one.</DIV> <DIV>- tradeskilling in those houses are even more claustrophobic than the old instance</DIV> <DIV>- I miss the near death experiences in front of the forge I had when jumping down to the broker without safe-fall</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will check out the other FP locations and see if I can get my incense there now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the writ giver: Near every TS-station there is a sign to start the Work-Orders. It would be nice if they could give an option to locate the actual writ giver. E.g. you click it and you only have the option to dismiss it. 2 more options to show a trail to the 2 guys for the writs would help a lot, especially the newbies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I almost forgot: Please give us back the old instances!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit:I went to NFP, and found an incense vendor. happily i created the spell, and the next task is at the forge. Too bad there isnt any forge in NFP. Non in the Temple of War as it should be (bugged it). Ok, heading to WFP. I did the combine at the forge there, but well, no crafting trainer to advance the quest series. Well, the headquarter of the Coalation of Tradesfolk is located in WFP, but none there can advance the quest series, nor can they give you any Work orders. OK, back to EFP then, and finished the quests there. Gratz to my new little Scolar, Sebia.</DIV><p>Message Edited by mutschml on <span class=date_text>09-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:28 PM</span>

Pullo

09-23-2006, 10:13 PM

<DIV>Continuing the playtesting discussed in previous post.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>More crafting today using all four crafters in my sig (all tier 6 except the alchemist who is tier 7).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Having writ cliboards near crafting stations is quite convenient.</DIV> <DIV>2. Not having to zone between banker, book buying, and crafting is nice. </DIV> <DIV>3. No lag reported, however NQ populations fluctuated between 7 and 13. More testing is needed here.</DIV> <DIV>4. Sneed's is likely going to be a prime crafting area. All stations besides forge and stove can be found there, broker is at Sneed's, and banker is next door.</DIV> <DIV>5. Clothspinners has an obstructed path on left. The furniture loom (non crafting station) and the table obstructs larger races from movement. In addition this building is quite cluttered meaning folks are likely to avoid it (furthering clutter at Sneed's).</DIV> <DIV>6. The removal of the tradeskill instances in the newbie zones also means there are six fewer brokers per city. This will increase clutter around the remaining brokers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thoughts in general for North Qeynos.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. There appears to be a natural crafting hub around Sneed's and the Bank. It might be good to have a similar hub around the north side of the zone (closer to writ givers). Possibly add a few of the missing stations around the forge.</DIV> <DIV>2. There really appear to be 'too few' stations. Realistically it probably doesn't matter if 10 people all target the same station or 3 people each (and 1/3) target three adjacent stations, but the perception of a cluster is going to just expand the griping. Increasing the number of stations will help here. Possibly a trade pavillion in some of the zones where all crafting stations are under a tent (if such can be added, don't know).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thoughts in general.</DIV> <DIV>1. All four city zones need balanced services. Brokers, bankers, writ givers, and a full complement of crafting stations will give some space for overflow spread should it occur. As it stands, one city zone (NQ) is about to get 100% of the good-side crafting on most servers which is problematic.</DIV> <DIV>2. Multiple brokers per major city zone (two each on different sides of the zone) are advisable.</DIV> <DIV>3. What about a within-city gondola service (i.e. mariner bells) which allow fast zoning between QH, NQ, SQ, and EF? The Down Below is about to become a transit hub instead of a newbie dungeon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's it for this run. After Monday's stress test I'll try moving to some of the other zones and offering feedback there.</DIV>

Seffrid

09-23-2006, 10:21 PM

<P>Since my earlier posts, which were based very much on my experience of existing lag in the city zones, my hatred of horses in congested outdoor areas and buildings, and my love of Willow Wood and Scale Yard for their TS/Broker/bank/bell proximities, not to mention the wonderful atmosphere of the village TS instances, I have now created a Test Server character and had a brief look.</P> <P>Apart from confirming the loss of the village TS instances, I looked in the inn in QH and was dismayed to see just the one keg and stove awkwardly positioned behind two counters and obstructing a painting on the wall. If the devs had wanted to create the impression of simply dumping it randomly in an already full room they couldn't have done a better job. It was the way I'd place a stick of furniture in my apartment at the first attempt after consuming a couple of bottles of wine :smileywink:!</P> <P>This is so frustrating. The existing arrangements are fine. Ok, I'd be content to see the doors go from the Qeynos TS instances but frankly they don't bother me. Add a few outdoor TS locations in non-laggy zones and it'd be perfect. Removing the existing village TS instances is simply not a sensible option.</P> <P>If only someone would give a simple (and honest) account as to what is behind all this. It makes no sense apart from the cost-cutting redistribution of servers argument that has been speculated on already - and which simply isn't acceptable if true.</P> <P>I truly fear that we're reaching a stage many of us have seen before in this game, the stage where a letter from Smed is needed to indicate that he's realised the enormity of the issue, dictated what is to happen (ie the village TS instances are to stay open), and thereby keeps a good many disgruntled players still in the game.</P> <P>It's not as if the crafters were due a nerf, is it :smileywink<img src="/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

DeathEater024

09-23-2006, 11:53 PM

<P>BLAHHHHHHHHHHHH</P> <P>AGAIN I SAY BLAHHHHH</P> <P>If every station came with a fuel broker and its own writ giver and a broker that might work might maybe but I still hate it. </P> <P>don't you think everyone in TS suffered enough when we had all of our recipe's nerfed. Every single one.</P> <P>don't do this weird gimmick that's what is is a weird under thought gimmick. </P> <P>Lets go back to the way it was or I will be crafting in my house only.</P><p>Message Edited by DeathEater024 on <span class=date_text>09-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:53 PM</span>

Marawin

09-23-2006, 11:54 PM

<DIV>I also want to state that this present setup is very<STRONG> very</STRONG> <STRONG><EM>bad</EM></STRONG>. First off, TSing in hamlets had both charm and convenience. If you must do away with TS instances, establish a full compliment of stations (at least one of each type) and merchants/brokers in the each of the present hamlets as well as those presently planned for the main city environments. The hamlets can take the crowding pressure off the main city workstations/merchants/brokers and will be more supportive for newer players entering the game. Running around between the many city environments is very very confusing for the new player and this change will only inhibit their enjoyment of both the game and TSings. </DIV>

DeathEater024

09-23-2006, 11:59 PM

<DIV> "Now you can display your skill to all your potential customers, without having to work in cramped quarters"</DIV> <DIV>Direct quote from update notes</DIV> <DIV>How cramped do you think a stove will be when 10 players have to use it.</DIV>

Finnwizz

09-24-2006, 12:20 AM

<P>I have finally figured out what is going on here. And i am frankly surprised that Silelwen didn't catch or figure this one out first as according to his new sig, he is "The Self-Proclaimed Alan Greenspan of MMO Economies". (no slight Silelwen, your sig just played so well into this theory.):smileyhappy:</P> <P>If you all remember a little while ago, all the hamlet tradeskill society's merged to form a bigger competition to the coalition and ironforge. It was about that time that there was such a glut on the market of product that both the Queen and Overlord stopped issueing more writs for orders of goods and the societies had so many raws they didn't need anymore and stopped issueing work orders. The glut was so bad that even the merchants wouldn't give any cash for items except trade you for more fuel to make more.</P> <P>I think what happened was the hamlet societies and the coalition/ ironforge all got into such a price war that they all lost there shirts sort of speak and were not able to pay their rent. The bankers have forclosed on their buildings and all the equipment was sold at auction. Only a portion of the equipment was actually sellable due to the lack of maintenance from being in deficit. The queen and overlord seem to have had the winning bids for the remaining workable equipment. As anyone who has been to an auction would know, you only have 24 hours aprox to move the equipment out. So they bought the equipment and have had to hastilly find a place to put it hence the scattering through out the cities.</P> <P>So now we know what has happened and we can speculate that right now the queen / overlord's accountants and city managers are scurrying all over the place behind the scenes trying to figure out where they are gonna put everyone who moves in from the hamlets and to get refugee housing set up quickly due to what appears to be the complete and total bankrupty of all the hamlets.:smileysurprised:</P> <P>Seriously though I have to say, I live on the west coast of Canada and play on the EU Splitpaw server (newbie mistake at the beggining:smileyvery-happy<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. When i play most (normal) people in the EU are asleep I have a decent computer built for gaming and i still experience lag in QH, SQ, NQ when running through. How bad is it gonna be for those who play in peak server times. Unless everyone moves to EoF when it comes out (might be a good reason to wait 6 months let the lag die down over there:smileyvery-happy<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I will wait and see how it goes upon implementation (yes i still have the pair of glasses Calthine gave me:smileyvery-happy<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Personally I think the lag would be terrible except for the upcoming expansion and the expected exodus of a large player base to EoF. Time will tell.</P> <P>Until then Shakily holding onto my rose coloured glasses hoping they don't break like Calthines did:smileysurprised:</P>

crumpledmonkey

09-24-2006, 01:28 AM

ok first off i dont play on test so i cant use my own solution to this problem.when they have this test after it has been postponed nobody use the things.if everybody stands around or goes back to there home citys and stands by the doors of the old tradeskill imstance then soe might get the hint. if u guys on test use this stuff soe will say to themselfs we have a good idea lets push it to live servers.i know people will say they need the money and stuff but for just a couple of days dont use the stuff.dont make anything for adventures and get the adventures to start complaining they cant get any stuff made. hate to say it but u efect the adventures and soe might listen. GO ON STRIKE DONT USE THE STUFF.

DeathEater024

09-24-2006, 02:48 AM

<DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>"The crafters of Qeynos and Freeport have finally been convinced to come up out of their dark and dingy dungeons filled with industrial accidents waiting to happen! With the help of the Ironforge Exchange and the Coalition of Tradesfolke, a number of new tradeskill stations have been placed around the cities proper. Crafters can find a full array of tradeskill devices in Freeport East and Qeynos Harbor, but all city zones have appropriate devices available in locations that make sense. In addition, fuel vendors and writ takers have stationed themselves conveniently near the new devices."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>BLAHHHHH this is on the offical GU 28 update preveiw direct quote copied and pasted.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>God I dont think they cought the hint yet. Seriously</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Get out of the basment and into an INN LOL how stupid is this really I mean move from one building to another for no reason what so ever this is the dumbest thing to date. I am getting sick of no response from the DEV's on this very important issue. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I'm off on main to get enough status to craft in my house I suggest you all start to do the same.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>:smileymad:</DIV>

DeathEater024

09-24-2006, 02:53 AM

<DIV> <P><FONT color=#ff0000 size=3><STRONG>Dymus:</STRONG></FONT><FONT size=2> </FONT>Yes, we're planning on making more of the crafting devices available within the world at large, not just in the crafting instances.</P> <P>This will be especially true throughout the cities (which include Kelethin), but also in other locations throughout the world. Places like Windstalker Village, the Crossroads, Maj'Dul, and others may start getting some devices within the area which can be used by characters for crafting.</P> <P>Not everywhere will be as convenient as the tradeskill society locations with all the materials right at your fingertips, but it will give some room to branch out. In addition, some of the tinkering ideas we have been considering might allow you to create a tradeskill device nearly anywhere in the world for a short period of time for those emergency crafting needs</P> <P>To me this means that all of our original zones will be staying is that true thats what I want to know.</P></DIV>

Writer Cal

09-24-2006, 03:46 AM

<P>Getting crafting stations around town made me happy. Losing the instances upsets me.</P> <P>For a change of pace, I do like being able to run around the city zones and craft, at least in the middle of the night when lag is relatively low. But I'm really feeling the loss of the instances with certain crafting classes, especially when it comes to doing writs and doing them with my favorite class, carpenters.</P> <P>Carpenters use up to 4 different stations, woodworking tables, forges, workbenches, and sewing tables. I'll use SQ for example, since it's always been one of the nicest city zones in my opinion. First problem is that there seems to be no single building where you can find all of these stations. You can find woodworking table, loom, and workbench close to each other, but then you have to go down the street to a forge. Okay, then, the only merchants selling fuels near the woodworking tables don't sell the fuels we need for woodworking tables, sandaper. No, to get sandpaper, you need to go to the merchants down the street near the forges where there aren't any woodworking tables. Oddly, I haven't found this problem with other crafts, I can buy coal right next to forges, filaments right next to sewing tables, etc...</P> <P>So I have all my fuels and know where my 4 crafting stations are... I get a writ, maybe T5 for example, which 9 out of 10 times asks for goods made on multiple stations. Problem is, I don't know what stations that writ is going to ask for until I start the timer. So, unlike almost every other crafting class, I can't just go to one station, start the timer there, and be sure that it's the right one. I might start it near a woodworking table and then find out all the goods are made on a forge, or visa versa. So now my carpenter, unlike most other classes, is wasting a pretty decent chunk of time running around trying to get to the right station while a timer (that was tested and balanced based on the old instances) is ticking away. And this doesn't include the additional frustration of getting blocked out of buildings because of big races or people's pets standing in the doorway.</P> <P>It's a nice concept, getting us out of dungeons and out into town. But it's bringing in a whole host of other problems:</P> <P>-- Lag for a lot of people who can't afford top end computers.</P> <P>-- Double incovenience for certain classes.</P> <P>-- The fact that many of the stations are now crammed into rooms that are more cramped than the instances were.</P> <P>-- The fact that, most of the time, we're still staring at a wall just like we were in instances.</P> <P>-- No indication in the Starting a Tradeskill Profession quest of where the heck a crafter-to-be is supposed to go now. It still tells them to go to one of many village instances that no longer exist.</P> <P>Things that would help improve the situation:</P> <P>-- Give us back the instances so people have a choice, especially those without top end computers. Hell, even getting back one per city like the Ironforge Exchange off NQ would be an improvement.</P> <P>-- Go over fuel merchants again and make sure those near certain crafting stations actually carry the all the fuel required for those crafting stations.</P> <P>-- For balance across the different classes doing writs, a little switching around of station locations needs to be looked at. *points up to carpenter problem of having their stations scattered unlike some other classes*</P> <P>-- Something I would love is if, on top of the current setup, there were two centralized OUTDOOR locationd in each city that had at least one of each station and all the required NPCs, sort of open crafting markets. This would really get us out of the cramped spaces and in an area that promoted socializing. Maybe there could be tents over the stations to protect our work from the rain. Customers could walk up in person looking for someone to fill an order, a crafter could accept the order, make it right there, and people get to mingle together in the meantime. The reason I mention two per city instead of one is to avoid a QH broker situation where you have masses of people cramped around one broker and lagging each other out. Also, having at least one or more instances back would still be necessary for those with less than awesome computers. But it's an idea I think that could be fun.</P> <P>I wouldn't mind this change if it gave us choices based on our needs, but as it is right now, we have don't have any choices other than, to craft or not. And this is where the change gets an adamant Heck No from me.</P>

bks6721

09-24-2006, 05:16 AM

wow.. this puts me in a tough spot. My wife loves to craft. She says if the instances dissappear she's not interesting in playing any more. Hence, if she's not gonna play her account I will probably not play on my two accounts.. Thats 3 accounts (all 10 slot accounts).. I think I see where they are really trying to save system resources lately.. obviously too many paying accounts and they want to thin them out. shaking head... <div></div>

Galn

09-24-2006, 08:42 AM

<DIV>I'm not going to quit the game over this, but it will probably make me give up on crafting completely. With this new setup I'll be even less inclined to craft, especially since my main crafters are Tailor, Armorer and Weaponsmith, so my views of crafting are pretty grim already. I base ALL my characters in Willow Wood or Longshadow Alley, I only own a house in NQ for the extra slot to sell out of and hold guild meetings in. I do EVERYTHING I can in the two zones I list above. The main reason for this is zoning takes forever for me since I'm on dialup, especially with my high level crafters. Some of them take a full 2 minutes to zone, my non-crafters can zone in a matter of 30 seconds at the worst. Even though my system can handle two copies of the game at once the Qeynos zones still lag more than the villages, SQ and QH being the worst. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Galn on <span class=date_text>09-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:44 PM</span>

Braill

09-24-2006, 09:02 AM

<DIV>I dont like this change at all. It annoys me to no end when someone else wants to use the crafting device I am using. I dont want to see other people looking over my shoulder and I shutter to imagine the carpets and horses all over the place. And the one lone broker will be impossible to get to much less target once you get there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please dont do this thing. If you want to give people the option, fine add the stations- just leave the rest of us our crafting instances for some peace and quiet.</DIV>

Josgar

09-24-2006, 09:14 AM

I just logged onto test to check it out, quite frankly in north qeynos if they added a banker it would be perfect.How to reduce lag: well add more stations in more places. Which they will. Plus we could just turn our graphics down. I do it all the time when in heavy populated zones. Seeing how this is only part A it could get much better. Well thats just my 2 coppers.<div></div>

Lyriel

09-24-2006, 09:25 AM

<FONT face=Arial size=2> <P>They’re Redoing the Tradeskill Stations<BR>(with apologies to Lionel Bart)</P> <P>SOE’s got a plan, haven’t they?<BR>Joking apart – haven’t they?<BR>And tho I’d be the first one to say I’m usually impressed </P> <P>I’m finding it hard to think it’s as rosy as they paint…</P> <P>They’re redoing the tradeskill stations<BR>Can’t have crafting in our village any more?<BR>All the trials and tribulations!<BR>Better settle down and find my place in some store<BR>And patrons to give writs to me<BR>And run from them, and run to them…<BR>The zone, it will cause lag for me.<BR>Writ timers, they will die for me.</P> <P>A misery, this makes for me.</P> <P>I think I better think it out again </P> <P>Those writs you can keep, anyway<BR>I’d rather grind, anyway<BR>Left without an income in the world<BR>And I’m starting from now<BR>So how to keep leveling without doing writs?<BR>So, how?</P> <P>They’re redoing the tradeskill stations;<BR>I’ll quickly get all the status that I can.<BR>With that status, I’ll buy a station!<BR>To craft inside my house is my new plan.<BR>An elaborate desk – 500K<BR>My own mail box – 68K<BR>How long will that take, anyway??<BR>No broker for my room, you say?<BR>No banker in this zone, you say…</P> <P>Can’t have it all in my own room…</P> <P>I think I’d better think it out again!</P> <P>So where shall I go – somebody?<BR>Does anyone know? Nobody!<BR>All my dearest companions<BR>Have worked in the villages like me<BR>So at two years of this<BR>I should start crafting in big laggy zones?</P> <P>They’re redoing the tradeskill stations<BR>If you want to craft, then go outside you shall!<BR>It is such a huge frustration<BR>These new stations just face different walls.<BR>Just how many stations are there?<BR>How many crafters have to share?<BR>For fuels and books, I must look where?<BR>Can’t see the broker for my wares<BR>Just those with mounts who block my view<BR>Cramped quarters that I can’t get through</P> <P>Already on extreme performance<BR>My framerate doesn’t stand a chance</P> <P>I think they better think it out again!</P></FONT>

Rijacki

09-24-2006, 09:31 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Josgar wrote:I just logged onto test to check it out, quite frankly in north qeynos if they added a banker it would be perfect.How to reduce lag: well add more stations in more places. Which they will. <font color="#ffff00">Plus we could just turn our graphics down. </font>I do it all the time when in heavy populated zones. Seeing how this is only part A it could get much better. Well thats just my 2 coppers.<div></div><hr></blockquote>What is the point of getting a nice computer and getting upgrades and having detailed graphics in game if every time you turn around someone "informs" you that you can "jsut turn graphics down" in order to do -anything-.I spend $200 to $300 every couple months on my computer to be able to see the stunning graphics in-game. I -love- the details and the way things look so realistic and even glisten. I HATE being "required" to turn everything down to grey blobs against an indistinct background just to be able to do stuff in game.I will, too, will stop crafting, or will only craft in my home (which currently means only one tradeskill since I can't afford to get additional elaborate stations and refuse to do nothing but grind writs) if I am -required- to "just turn down graphics" in order to craft. I hate turning down graphics to blobs for raiding, but -that- is slightly more understandable.... but only barely and I'm annoyed at the necessity there, too.What, I repeat, is the point of having any high quality graphics in game if the advice to play is constantly "just turn down graphics"??</div>

Eueadan

09-24-2006, 09:32 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Josgar wrote:<BR><BR>How to reduce lag: well add more stations in more places. Which they will. Plus we could just turn our graphics down. I do it all the time when in heavy populated zones. Seeing how this is only part A it could get much better. Well thats just my 2 coppers.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I wholeheartedly disagree...<BR>(1) The lag is already there on live servers, even though the crafting stations are not...spreading the newly added stations out will not accomplish anything.</P> <P>(2) Turning your graphics settings down so the game looks like crap should NEVER be a solution to any problem in the game. EQ2 is built to be a very nice looking game...that is what people expect, that is what we pay for, and that is what the art team is paid to provide. I have a nice computer, and if EQ2 won't run on my computer properly without me reducing the graphical quality of the game to a minimal level, the game is worthless and the devs need to work on making the graphics work.</P> <P>I'm sorry, but saying "you should have to play an ugly game because the game coding is bad and lags" is not the right position any player should be advocating here.</P>

Josgar

09-24-2006, 09:47 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Josgar wrote:I just logged onto test to check it out, quite frankly in north qeynos if they added a banker it would be perfect.How to reduce lag: well add more stations in more places. Which they will. <font color="#ffff00">Plus we could just turn our graphics down. </font>I do it all the time when in heavy populated zones. Seeing how this is only part A it could get much better. Well thats just my 2 coppers.<div></div><hr></blockquote>What is the point of getting a nice computer and getting upgrades and having detailed graphics in game if every time you turn around someone "informs" you that you can "jsut turn graphics down" in order to do -anything-.I spend $200 to $300 every couple months on my computer to be able to see the stunning graphics in-game. I -love- the details and the way things look so realistic and even glisten. I HATE being "required" to turn everything down to grey blobs against an indistinct background just to be able to do stuff in game.I will, too, will stop crafting, or will only craft in my home (which currently means only one tradeskill since I can't afford to get additional elaborate stations and refuse to do nothing but grind writs) if I am -required- to "just turn down graphics" in order to craft. I hate turning down graphics to blobs for raiding, but -that- is slightly more understandable.... but only barely and I'm annoyed at the necessity there, too.What, I repeat, is the point of having any high quality graphics in game if the advice to play is constantly "just turn down graphics"??</div><hr></blockquote>It was just a suggestion. You dont "have" to do anything. But I always do that if I have to go into Qeynos harbor for extended amounts of time. Anyways I think that they are going to figure a way to balance it out.</div>

Eueadan

09-24-2006, 11:10 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Josgar wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>But I always do that if I have to go into Qeynos harbor for extended amounts of time.<BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is, I think, one of the key things that the devs need to take away from this discussion... People lag like crazy in the larger city zones, to the point where it requires many players to reduce their graphics settings to a minimal level to be able to function. Many people have probably not been reporting this, as (1) its sporatic so you can push through it if you are willing to endure some annoyance, (2) people probably don't view it as helpful or productive to /bug that a whole zone lags like crazy, and (3) you can avoid the zones relatively easily, so you can work around the lag without much effort.</P> <P>I think the first and foremost question that needs to be answered with these changes is: Can the devs do anything about the lag?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>NOTE: From experience, I had NO problems whatsoever with lag in the Qeynos City zones at launch, with the EXACT same computer and the EXACT same game graphics settings. I think the increased lag is the result of recent changes (within the last 6 months or so)...</P><p>Message Edited by Eueadan on <span class=date_text>09-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:13 AM</span>

Jackula

09-24-2006, 01:02 PM

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>My optimism glasses are broken on this round. Upon first hearing details of this change, I thought it would be great to be able to have some new scenery from time to time while crafting. Apparently, that isn't the case as all of the tradeskill instances have been removed. Hearing this, I could not help but wonder who thought this was a good idea and how many people had to agree to make it so. I am guessing more than a few. How could all of them be so out of touch with the player base? What I thought would be a nice addition in the form of alternate, optional scenery instead appears to be staring a different wall, not anything more scenic, while vastly increasing my inconvenience. Obviously, I'm not the only player to think this by looking at the all the responding posts here.Would it be so hard to get a Dev comment saying instances are being removed temporarily to encourage their testing only, or that this is something new SoE really wants the player base to try out and this is the reason why, etc? The lack of communication is fuelling this threads length and doing anything but dampening alot of worry and frustration from the crafting community.At this point you'll be lucky to see many happy open-minded testers showing up on Monday, but alot more likely to see a player base with a weekends worth of angst arriving to the test server with a flaming torch and pitchfork-wielding mob mindset ready to storm the castle of Dr. Frankenstein.Change is always bound to create some waves. When it is of this magnitude, be pro-active. At times, your communication skills as a company need more than just a little work. Right now would be a perfect example of this. You have enough experience in the MMO business to expect reactions, but also enough experience to know better. For that alone, this is a disappointment.p.s. - it <b>still</b> rains <b>inside</b> my house and SQ is unseasonably rainy so crafting in my own grey basement isn't a better improvement over the dungeon-esque tradeskill instance or your newly proposed and equally leaky version either*edited due to super mod filter being unable to edit out ancient dwarven curse words<div></div><p><span class="date_text"></span><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by countjackula on <span class=date_text>09-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:45 AM</span>

ironman2000

09-24-2006, 02:24 PM

I'm kind of curious who makes the decisions to do things like this? I hate to bring up bad decisions that weren't thought all the way through, in the name of making a game better but its starting to make me have a bad feeling in my gut, like the NGE over at star wars galaxies <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

MrWolfie

09-24-2006, 02:32 PM

<DIV><FONT color=#ffff33 size=6>DO NOT REMOVE TS INSTANCES!</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by MrWolfie on <span class=date_text>09-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:33 AM</span>

Ver

09-24-2006, 02:36 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrWolfie wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33 size=6>DO NOT REMOVE TS INSTANCES!</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>What he said.</P> <P>I am completely 110% against the removal of tradeskill instances.</P> <P>PS. The recipe booksellers should be INSIDE the TS instances <=== That's the ONLY change that needs to be addressed IMO.</P> <P> </P>

SilkVelvet

09-24-2006, 02:49 PM

<P>Hello Devs!! </P> <P> I had a run around on test and was totally galled at what they've done, the workstations have been dumped all over the place, with no real thought as to what goes with what, it would make more sense if you (the devs) really must take our ts instance zones away, open up some of those closed buildings in the city zones that no one can get into, like that lovely big round one in QH.... I know you're trying really realy hard, that would have made more sense than forcing more lag issues on us, unless you've developed a magic cure for EVERYONE's lag issues.</P> <P> Ok, I think I understand WHY you devs have done this, to make more space on the servers for the coming expansion, and also to give the slow zoners a better situtation for crafting, but maybe, you need to think about this a little more carefully. You see, if retaining the ts intance zones were an option, placing the banker and the mailbox inside theses zones make a lot more sense, over here int he UK, many of the larger supermarkets have banks, chemists(drugstore?) drycleaners, cafe's and WOW!!!!! sometimes even a post office(mail office)!?!?!?!? opposite the checkouts, oh yeah, even a travel agent at times. I don't know what it's like for you lot in the US, but that's what we have, and also, it makes more sense role play wiseto have those amenities in tradeskill instance zones.</P> <P> I do hope that you reconsider this major change to crafting, this one is worse than taking all the sub combines away and reducing the tradeskill zones by 75%, is, well, really really silly, stop fixing something that isn't broken, and focus on stuff that is, like the rendering distance bug with layers of armor winking in and out with minor changes in angle regardless of the distance, not pretty..... really not pretty</P> <P> Silk</P> <P>p.s.Oh yeah.... the cure that you devs did introduce for zones like QH is back and now I lag in every city zone.... I never did before... and that's on Live, never mind test. </P>

Jerr

09-24-2006, 03:31 PM

<P>Made my first test character-a female Dirge as I wanted to see new female run animations and first female character I have made. Have to admit its nicer to stare at a female character for hours on end.</P> <P>Also wanted to take Calthine's advice and do the monday test run for the new crafting station's locations.</P> <P>Went to QH and ran around lookng at the new stations.</P> <P>Went to SQ and had to run to the other side of the zone for all the crafting people (rush orders, work orders, trainer and delegate.) This could present a problem for new people trying to find the tradeskill delegate as you just have to search until you find them.</P> <P>I decided to make a jewler to make my spells and went to "The Herb Jar" as that was listed in the Dev's post for having some work benches. Had some Malachite and lead cluster from newbie isle and thought I'd make some of the three recipes I received. The work benches are upstairs and there is a Jeweler there by the name of Katlyn Paisley. Only problem is she sells all the candles but NO COAL. Go downstairs and and talk to guy down there-same thing-all the candles but again no COAL. So my idea of making a few items is put on hold.</P> <P>Gonna go look for a merchant that sells coal. Add to post after I look around some more.</P> <P>So far the amount of traveling and the No Coal issue at the work benches is a major drag. Keeping an open mind as much as I can-but so far this change is not doing well. BBL</P> <P>Cheers,</P> <P>Jerril</P> <P>Ok-ran to Mailes Exchange as that is listed as having the only other work bench. Downstairs is one work bench and one woodworkers table. Broker is here also. Go upstairs and a tailor merchant is there. She sells all the filament but again NO COAL near a work bench. Gonna go to forges as there has gotta be coal there. Ok went to Tin Soldier and got the coal. Two buildings away from work benches and a hassle.</P> <P>Please add coal to the jeweler merchants and add a Jeweler merchant in Mailes Exchange for the one work bench there.</P> <P>So far the disbursement of crafting stations and NPC's shows someone did this as an afterthought and didn't really think it out. </P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Jerril on <SPAN class=date_text>09-24-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:38 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Jerril on <span class=date_text>09-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:42 AM</span>

katalmach

09-24-2006, 03:32 PM

<P>Please do not put these changes through. Fine - you want to put tradeskill stations outside the tradeskill instances, that's ok - but do not remove the tradeskill instances. It would be a terrible mistake to do so.</P> <P>As a carpenter, I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to run from station to station across an entire city zone. I don't want to stand in the middle of a huge crowd all trying to craft from the same station in a cramped little room. I don't want to have to remember what NPC sells what fuel and from where, I don't want to have to remember what zones have what stations my various characters need, and I definitely do not want to see channels spammed with the question "Where's the workbench??", "Where's the writ NPC??" over and over again (and you know that's going to happen). Not to mention the lag - I already can barely get through places like Qeynos Harbour! (And don't tell me to get a better computer - so much money has already been spent on EQ2 and on my computer for EQ2 to run on it that it's ridiculous.)</P> <P>There is absolutely nothing wrong with the crafting instances (apart from the infamous double doors, but that's just a minor issue) and they should stay the way they are. Add crafting stations to various zones across the world - sure! But do NOT remove what we've got now, please.</P> <P>In fact, what you SHOULD do is leave Qeynos/Freeport as they are (with crafting instances) and add crafting stations to Maj Dul. The people who have houses there would probably love to see that done, and it might tempt more people to move there. That would be a much better idea than the abomination of a change that is on test right now.</P>

Jerr

09-24-2006, 03:56 PM

<P>Ok-not sure about this one. Went to Jeweler in NQ to check out coal fuel issue. Neither merchant offers any fuel but if you go upstairs you can buy all the candles from the barber.</P> <P>Maybe the Barber is expanding out and doing hot wax treatments? Candles and COAL need to be sold downstairs by the Jeweler merchants. Also very cramped quarters in this building for crafting space. Bench in the back left nook needs to be moved to where the table is on the right as you come in to give more room.</P> <P>Went to the other two benches listed at Sneed's and Sneed sells all different types of fuel--including COAL. So finally I find a merchant near a work bench that sells coal. Plus Broker in this building so I think so far this is were I will craft. Continuing on the search.</P> <P>Cheers,</P> <P>Jerril</P><p>Message Edited by Jerril on <span class=date_text>09-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:59 AM</span>

SanDalghi

09-24-2006, 04:43 PM

IF it is true that these changes have to do with freeing up server resources, and IF it is true that doing away with in-room crafting stations will become a necessary part of that-- to cut down on the number of people in instanced apartments--then all this talk of "just moving my crafting into my personal quarters" is going to require a New Solution.i'm just saying....<div></div>

DeathEater024

09-24-2006, 06:07 PM

I could be wrong with What Dymus said but I think if it goes live they arnt going to get rid of our instances just add additonal ones into the city proper as they put it. I think on test they just moved them out so we would test them and give feedback. Other then that its obviously a horrible idea to take them out.

Sisca

09-24-2006, 06:24 PM

First of all let me say that I'm primarily an adventurer not a tradeskiller. So for me having quick and easy access to the TS stations sounds like a good idea, especially if I can get to the bank, broker and station without zoning. Of course all of that easy access will be over-ridden by the fact that I won't be able to see the bloody station with all the displaced trade skillers hovering around it. Not to mention the added lag of having all these extra people in the zones I have to traverse almost nightly as I run around getting my city writs and turning in status items. Or worse in QH, the launching point for most of the mid/high end zones as well as the guild raids.So I have to ask who these changes are supposed to benefit? Obviously the tradeskillers don't really like them, they won't make the life of someone like me, the occasional tradeskiller, any better and I can't even see a huge benefit to people that are strictly adventurers. I mean, seriously, how many people looking for an armorsmith to make them some new T7 armor are going to go running around to the forges and see who's available? Wouldn't it be easier to just do a search for armorcrafters LFW or even simpler do what people currently do and ask on the Qeynos/Freeport trader and crafter channels?And while I'm ranting I'd just like to respond to Devilsbane's several posts suggesting people upgrade. One of those people was my wife. Her computer is an AMD 64 3800+ with an ATI 9800 Pro 256MB and with 2GB of system ram. Yes, I could upgrade her RAM to 4GB but she'd be [Removed for Content] if I did since every hardware test run over the last year has proven that increasing RAM above 2GB can result in a performance DECREASE. This is an effect of how XP addresses memory over 2GB and even going to the 64 bit version doesn't fix it - that's assuming you can get EQ2 to run in the 64 bit version - the issue is even more noticable in DirectX based programs.I have the same system and I lag in QH every time I run through, the docks or ok but trying to go outside of that area and I get serious frame rate lag. I also get lag in other city zones when they get crowded, even though I've never seen any lag in a TS instance with twice as many people. Speaking as someone that's actually building levels for an MMO, I can surmise that this has to do with the fact that the city zones just have more polygons in view because of the buildings and how the occlusion works. In other words it's an engine issue and really not something they can fix easily - though I'm not saying it's poor programing, I understand it's the nature of the beast.Just saying people should upgrade isn't always a reasonable solution and maybe you should, as you told someone else, understand the technology a bit better before you post.

Ceruline

09-24-2006, 06:49 PM

On the upgrading front, my brand new pc (Core Duo2, 4gb ram, 7950GX2...) will occasionally have framerate issues in the FP zones at my normal play settings. This is on Test, not Live. I can't imagine how bad East Freeport would be if things went Live as they currently stand.On the design end, I also consider myself more of an occasional crafter. That said, crafting is something I do when I want to experience a change of pace from adventuring. The seclusion of the dungeons was great for that. This isn't just an issue that affects crafters. East Freeport, a zone that everyone uses heavily as it has broker/fence/boats is going to end up as the crafting hub on the FP side (Better layout, and the writ NPCs are there). This is going to cause one of the more performance intensive zones to get even moreso - and make certain routine activities a chore for many players.<div></div>

Rijacki

09-24-2006, 06:55 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Sisca wrote:First of all let me say that I'm primarily an adventurer not a tradeskiller. So for me having quick and easy access to the TS stations sounds like a good idea, especially if I can get to the bank, broker and station without zoning. Of course all of that easy access will be over-ridden by the fact that I won't be able to see the bloody station with all the displaced trade skillers hovering around it. Not to mention the added lag of having all these extra people in the zones I have to traverse almost nightly as I run around getting my city writs and turning in status items. Or worse in QH, the launching point for most of the mid/high end zones as well as the guild raids.So I have to ask who these changes are supposed to benefit? Obviously the tradeskillers don't really like them, they won't make the life of someone like me, the occasional tradeskiller, any better and I can't even see a huge benefit to people that are strictly adventurers. I mean, seriously, how many people looking for an armorsmith to make them some new T7 armor are going to go running around to the forges and see who's available? Wouldn't it be easier to just do a search for armorcrafters LFW or even simpler do what people currently do and ask on the Qeynos/Freeport trader and crafter channels?And while I'm ranting I'd just like to respond to Devilsbane's several posts suggesting people upgrade. One of those people was my wife. Her computer is an AMD 64 3800+ with an ATI 9800 Pro 256MB and with 2GB of system ram. Yes, I could upgrade her RAM to 4GB but she'd be [Removed for Content] if I did since every hardware test run over the last year has proven that increasing RAM above 2GB can result in a performance DECREASE. This is an effect of how XP addresses memory over 2GB and even going to the 64 bit version doesn't fix it - <font color="#ffff00">that's assuming you can get EQ2 to run in the 64 bit version</font> - the issue is even more noticable in DirectX based programs.I have the same system and I lag in QH every time I run through, the docks or ok but trying to go outside of that area and I get serious frame rate lag. I also get lag in other city zones when they get crowded, even though I've never seen any lag in a TS instance with twice as many people. Speaking as someone that's actually building levels for an MMO, I can surmise that this has to do with the fact that the city zones just have more polygons in view because of the buildings and how the occlusion works. In other words it's an engine issue and really not something they can fix easily - though I'm not saying it's poor programing, I understand it's the nature of the beast.Just saying people should upgrade isn't always a reasonable solution and maybe you should, as you told someone else, understand the technology a bit better before you post.<hr></blockquote>I completely agree with the rest of your post but wanted to make a side comment. EQ2 does work on the 64bit version of XP. It's what I have on my primary EQ2 computer now. I jsut did (well a few weeks ago) an upgrade of motherboard, CPU, RAM, and OS. I'm still using my "old" graphics card which I bought a couple months previous: AMD 64 3000+, 2 Gb RAM, NVidia GeForce 6600 GT with 128Mb (AGP since I don't have a PCI-E slot, that's the next upgrade in a few months... this mobo was free, kinda).</div>

Seffrid

09-24-2006, 06:56 PM

<P>By way of further update on my testing, I just popped back into the inn in QH and there squeezed into the gap between two counters working away at the solitary stove and keg was a crafter on horseback.</P> <P>Whoever thought that it would add to the atmosphere of this game to have crafters working on horseback inside buildings really needs to wake up.</P> <P>This change is utterly awful.</P> <P>I simply cannot remotely believe that I will continue crafting if this all goes through. It is 100% rubbish. It has taken neat and atmospheric tradeskill stations and replaced them with arbitrarily dumped stations in the most awkward and unrealistic settings imaginable.</P> <P>As for the idea of putting them in open places like the Crossroads, that is nonsense. Who would realistically expect to come across such a setup in that kind of location? Removing them from an ice flow in Everfrost was the most sensible move even if done for the wrong reason, but adding them here, there, and everywhere? It will destroy the immersion. Total nonsense!</P> <P>If it ain't broke, don't fix it!</P><p>Message Edited by Seffrid on <span class=date_text>09-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:58 AM</span>

Captain Apple Darkberry

09-24-2006, 08:25 PM

<font color="#ff6600">The scattered crafting stations are nice, BUT ONLY IN ADDITION to having a crafting instance. The running around, zoning, trying to find who sells what, lesser number of stations, is a pain for someone who simply wants to go to THE CRAFTING INSTANCE and craft.Having station in the outside air is nice, but not if it means giving up the tradeskill instance where all is easy and convenient...Sorry for the shouting but I didn'a want a dev to read me first 6 words and say "Yay! We have second vote in favor of this mess, er.. ..improvement. Give it the green light!"And I'm taking bets on this nice tasty baubbleberry pie that says despite at least 90% of folks so far seeming AGAINST the change, that they will force it on us anyway. <waves warm bubbly pie around and points to the ratonga scribbling out odds on a chalkboard></font><div></div>

Vadja

09-24-2006, 10:47 PM

<DIV>After trying out the new stations in Freeport I have some comments to make about the crafting vendors: Many of the new merchants are also quest NPCs, Scribe Zizwold, for instance. Some were formerly just "flavour" NPCs. the problem is, when you click them to buy, they also offer the same quest or remark that they used to. This can become repetitive, but it's something else about this that really grates on me: These NPCs already have a role within the game, from a lore point of view. Not majorly important lore, but they are part of the theme of the city and add to the sense of immersion. Now they're moonlighting as fuel merchants? Maybe it's just me, but this seems so inconsistent, and such an ugly fix.</DIV>

Ebjelen

09-24-2006, 11:29 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AngryWhiteDog wrote:<BR><FONT color=#ff6600>The scattered crafting stations are nice, BUT ONLY IN ADDITION to having a crafting instance. <BR><BR>The running around, zoning, trying to find who sells what, lesser number of stations, is a pain for someone who simply wants to go to THE CRAFTING INSTANCE and craft.<BR><BR></FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You've got this backwards. Everything can be found in one zone with this change. Bank, bookseller, broker, Work Orders, Class trainers and the stations are now in one zone. Maybe not in every zone, but each city now has two zones setup like this. Previously you had to leave the TS instance, in otherwords zone out, to use the bank, buy books, and certify classes. Once you've found your various vendors the first time, you wont need to look so hard the next time. It's not like we didn't have to do this with the original system.</P> <P>This doesn't mean I agree with the change. It means I don't agree with people making up stuff for debate purposes, Maybe the zone is bigger, but that a matter of personal perspective.</P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff99>If you really disagree with these changes, then you'll show up for the scheduled playtest. If we get a decent number of people we might be able to demonstrate how crowded and lagged this change will make the cities.<BR></FONT></STRONG></P>

Jaimster

09-24-2006, 11:41 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ebjelen wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AngryWhiteDog wrote:<BR><FONT color=#ff6600>The scattered crafting stations are nice, BUT ONLY IN ADDITION to having a crafting instance. <BR><BR>The running around, zoning, trying to find who sells what, lesser number of stations, is a pain for someone who simply wants to go to THE CRAFTING INSTANCE and craft.<BR><BR></FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You've got this backwards. Everything can be found in one zone with this change. Bank, bookseller, broker, Work Orders, Class trainers and the stations are now in one zone. Maybe not in every zone, but each city now has two zones setup like this. Previously you had to leave the TS instance, in otherwords zone out, to use the bank, buy books, and certify classes. Once you've found your various vendors the first time, you wont need to look so hard the next time. It's not like we didn't have to do this with the original system.</P> <P>This doesn't mean I agree with the change. It means I don't agree with people making up stuff for debate purposes, Maybe the zone is bigger, but that a matter of personal perspective.</P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff99>If you really disagree with these changes, then you'll show up for the scheduled playtest. If we get a decent number of people we might be able to demonstrate how crowded and lagged this change will make the cities.<BR></FONT></STRONG></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Umm, you're not a carpenter are you? And whether it could, in theory, if we all planned incredibly well, be to our advantage because everything is in one spot, you're still not taking into consideration the reduction of tradeskilling tables. There's lag, there's people on horses and carpets, there's more people trying to squeeze into a small space to use two machines.</P> <P>If they were trying to make things more convenient, they would have just put a banker and a mailbox into the tradeskill instances!<BR></P>

EtoilePirate

09-24-2006, 11:42 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Ebjelen wrote: If you really disagree with these changes, then you'll show up for the scheduled playtest. If we get a decent number of people we might be able to demonstrate how crowded and lagged this change will make the cities.<strong></strong><hr></blockquote>Yes. Because 4 pm (or 5, or 6, or 7 -- and that's only counting the US time zones) isn't at all still the workday or necessary family dinnertime or commuting time for any working adults, right?I mean, if at all possible I'll rush straight home from work and log in. But I usually can't be in the game by that time most nights. And I'm quite frustrated that such a vital and necessary playtest is happening when such a relatively small percentage of the population is available.</div>

Seffrid

09-25-2006, 12:08 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ebjelen wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>You've got this backwards. Everything can be found in one zone with this change. Bank, bookseller, broker, Work Orders, Class trainers and the stations are now in one zone. Maybe not in every zone, but each city now has two zones setup like this. Previously you had to leave the TS instance, in otherwords zone out, to use the bank, buy books, and certify classes. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>All my Qeynos characters are bound in the bank in Willow Wood. They can enter the TS, deal with the broker, craft, use the recipe merchant and mail stuff to my other characters a darned sight quicker than if they have to run around a city zone. Moreover, once they're done it's a moment's run to the bell unlike in Qeynos. </P> <P>My Freeport characters use Scale Yard the same way. Similar considerations apply.</P> <P>And that's without taking into account the additional lag in the city zones compared to the villages.</P>

Seltha-Larren

09-25-2006, 06:41 AM

<P>Ooh, finally, I can craft from the safety of my flying carpet, wearing my level 50 fluff sparkly spell, how cool is that going to be!</P> <P>---</P> <P>In all seriousness, I like the concept of the change, I hated the TS dungeons with a passion, especially when you click them and then crash to character select like happens all too often. It's especially embarassing when you take 4 rare items from a customer to turn them in and then promptly log out. Real professional. So overall IMO this is a good change, the execution may need a few tweaks but overall it is a sound concept. The stress test monday will show them if they need to tweak anything in the town zones themselves.</P> <P> </P>

Rijacki

09-25-2006, 07:19 AM

<blockquote><hr>Ebjelen wrote:<div></div><p><strong><font color="#ffff99">If you really disagree with these changes, then you'll show up for the scheduled playtest. If we get a decent number of people we might be able to demonstrate how crowded and lagged this change will make the cities.</font></strong></p><hr></blockquote>So, do you recommend I take a sick day I can't really afford or that I tell my boss I have to take off from work 3 hours early when he's been wanting me to work 2+ hours over time every day? But wait, if I were "really" against this I should forget real life and show up. Totally not realistic.<div></div>

ironman2000

09-25-2006, 07:27 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Seltha wrote:<BR> <P>Ooh, finally, I can craft from the safety of my flying carpet, wearing my level 50 fluff sparkly spell, how cool is that going to be!</P> <P>---</P> <P>In all seriousness, I like the concept of the change, I hated the TS dungeons with a passion, especially when you click them and then crash to character select like happens all too often. It's especially embarassing when you take 4 rare items from a customer to turn them in and then promptly log out. Real professional. So overall IMO this is a good change, the execution may need a few tweaks but overall it is a sound concept. The stress test monday will show them if they need to tweak anything in the town zones themselves.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>There aren't nearly enough people on test to adequately test this out. Also, with all the lag, whats worse, accidentally crashing to character select before you start to craft or lagging out and screwing up a rare for a customer? I would say messing up the rare is far worse, and with all the lag thats sure to happen.<BR>

Brorimed

09-25-2006, 10:10 AM

<DIV>Just please dont implement this .. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There's nothing good about it !!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Brorim</DIV>

missionarymarr

09-25-2006, 10:21 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DeathEater024 wrote:<BR> I could be wrong with What Dymus said but I think if it goes live they arnt going to get rid of our instances just add additonal ones into the city proper as they put it. I think on test they just moved them out so we would test them and give feedback. Other then that its obviously a horrible idea to take them out.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I hope you are right unfortunately it seems to me that if that was the case a DEV would have popped in a long time ago to let us know that. I mean if this is the case they would have been smart enough to pop in once they started to see some of the complaints and let us know that this was to force people to test out the new tables and they weren't going to get rid of the TS Instances on live. Therefore it looks to me like the plan from them is to get rid of the Instances. I am hoping though that they will listen to the complaints on this and not allow the removal of the Instances to go to live. They have listened to players complaints before so there is some hope. If they don't change it we really need an explanation on why this is necessary and saying to free up server space is not in my opinion a good answer. For a couple reasons one part of the money they charge for expansions would seem to me should be spent on buying new hardware and such for the new zones and such. If the reason this needs to be done is to save server space it makes me concerned that the population for this game isn't enough to meet all the costs and as such I would be concerned that this game might be slowing dying. I hope I am wrong but we need a DEV to finally post in here on what is actually going on with the instances.</P>

Despak

09-25-2006, 11:15 AM

<blockquote><hr>EtoilePB wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Ebjelen wrote: If you really disagree with these changes, then you'll show up for the scheduled playtest. If we get a decent number of people we might be able to demonstrate how crowded and lagged this change will make the cities.<strong></strong><hr></blockquote>Yes. Because 4 pm (or 5, or 6, or 7 -- and that's only counting the US time zones) isn't at all still the workday or necessary family dinnertime or commuting time for any working adults, right?I mean, if at all possible I'll rush straight home from work and log in. But I usually can't be in the game by that time most nights. And I'm quite frustrated that such a vital and necessary playtest is happening when such a relatively small percentage of the population is available.</div><hr></blockquote>You are assuming it wwasn't done on purpose. This is SoE's true style. Now when most us workers are are out; there will be no overcrowding and no lag. They'll sit and BS to everyonwe how easy it was and then ignore us all as per usual.

Rijacki

09-25-2006, 01:01 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Despak wrote:<blockquote><hr>EtoilePB wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Ebjelen wrote: If you really disagree with these changes, then you'll show up for the scheduled playtest. If we get a decent number of people we might be able to demonstrate how crowded and lagged this change will make the cities.<strong></strong><hr></blockquote>Yes. Because 4 pm (or 5, or 6, or 7 -- and that's only counting the US time zones) isn't at all still the workday or necessary family dinnertime or commuting time for any working adults, right?I mean, if at all possible I'll rush straight home from work and log in. But I usually can't be in the game by that time most nights. And I'm quite frustrated that such a vital and necessary playtest is happening when such a relatively small percentage of the population is available.</div><hr></blockquote>You are assuming it wwasn't done on purpose. This is SoE's true style. Now when most us workers are are out; there will be no overcrowding and no lag. They'll sit and BS to everyonwe how easy it was and then ignore us all as per usual.<hr></blockquote>No, it was done on purpose. The SOE office is in San Diego. San Diego is in California which is in Pacific time. For most people, including those who work at SOE who would be observing this, the work day starts at 8am and ends at 5pm (with an hour unpaid lunch, of course). The playtest was set for as late in the standard work day of those who will be -at work- observing it so as to hopefully have at least a couple timezones of players (those in Eastern and Central in the Americas, at least) a chance to be done with their 8-5 work days and be able to log on. I live and work in California, too, depending on the employee category, there are laws about how many hours you can require someone to work without paying them overtime, even on salary, and then absolute limits on how many hours you can require over all.</div>

gm9

09-25-2006, 01:31 PM

The constant nerfs to crafting are tiring and demotivating. I do not like SOE's current vision of tradeskilling and where they are taking it. :smileymad:Having been an avid crafter with more crafting levels pre-LU24 than adventuring levels, nowadays I only craft if I need to for guildies. I hear the same from them as all. While many people level up crafters to help the guild out, they are all annoyed with it and find it supremely boring. This latest change only increases the annoyance factor by a good amount. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Oh, and of course I'm working at the time they scheduled the playtest as well. Not that I'm surprised.

ironman2000

09-25-2006, 02:26 PM

I wonder if this is the "Help out Vanguard by giving them new players" program? Ok well maybe thats a bit much but you get the point <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Sarduscious

09-25-2006, 02:39 PM

City zones are too laggy to craft in for anyone other than A) people with high end systems or B) people who don't mind playing the game with the lowest possible settings. Lag during the crafting process will lose pristine on an item every time for me, period. How that's suppose to 'show off' my skills to the public I honestly don't know. "Sorry, that mastercrafted item you wanted is only shaped so I can't imbue it, enjoy !! " etc.Having crafting stations in areas where people can sit on their horse is a REALLY bad idea. Especially in small interiors.On the AB server, the Temple of War is a common target for Qeynos guilds to come and slaughter guards for RP events. Crafting stations with a dozen people killing city guards next to them is another REALLY bad idea. If you're going to place crafting stations in the laggiest part of Freeport, under the laggiest possible conditions ( the rp events ) you might as well drop the entire mini-game of crafting and just have a giant 'craft' button next to the recipies in your book that will instantly give you the finished product.I have played this game since day 1, and have been a crafter with each of my characters even through the many changes I didn't agree with. This one however, will be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back for me in terms of weather or not I ever craft again. I can understand completely what the potential intent was with this change, but to be honest it's one change the game absolutely does not need.<div></div>

madha

09-25-2006, 03:20 PM

<DIV>Ok so every server should get together when this goes live and toss in some coin and buy crafting statyions , or some rich ubber guild can turn a house into a crafting instance with all the stations and let everyone use it.</DIV>

MrWolfie

09-25-2006, 04:23 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> madhatr wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok so every server should get together when this goes live and toss in some coin and buy crafting statyions , or some rich ubber guild can turn a house into a crafting instance with all the stations and let everyone use it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That'd be nice. But there's no brokers, TS writ givers, fuel sellers in anyone's houses...</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>Instead of implementing this rubbish, the devs should be working on GUILD HOUSES.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>Here are some of my ideas for them:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>Any guild should be able to initially purchase a guild house, quite cheaply, which would be huge houses in ALL major city zones, so guilds can choose where they want to be based ~ they can even be in neutral cities too. As the guild levels up they would unlock more features (which would have associated status costs, like the rent status of large houses/inn rooms).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>For example, the guild leader could create, name and place individual NPCs to fulfil certain roles (Bankers, Brokers, TS book sellers/fuel vendors, TS writ givers, Menders, Status relic purchasors, maybe even a Fence!)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>The guild bank could be further expandable by allowing crafted boxes to be stored in each of the four tabs (one tab at a time, again unlocked by guild level).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>Access levels could be set by the leader allowing non-guildies to come in and admire the guild's work.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>Guild members could use their status points to purchase the Crafting Stations, so all the guild's crafters could congregate.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>And the costs:<BR>Each of these special items needs to be unlocked by the guild's level, then they become available to the guild leader to create and place in the guild house. At that point they also require status rent (which would vary depending on how many unique accounts the guild has as members, to the normal minimum of 6).<BR>Which would mean the more members a guild has (in unique accounts, remember) the more status items they'd need to have in the guild house to allow the retention of the services they'd unlocked, thereby getting a majority of the guild members to contribute to the upkeep of the guild house and it's "perks". Small guilds would pay less status than large guilds, but large guild should have more resources to call upon. Hopefully, nothing gets priced out of reach for any guild but every item still requires some work and dedication.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>Now that's what I'd call a "Game Update".</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff></FONT> </P>

Kenazeer

09-25-2006, 04:36 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> countjackula wrote:<BR> Hearing this, I could not help but wonder who thought this was a good idea and how many people had to agree to make it so. I am guessing more than a few. <STRONG>How could all of them be so out of touch with the player base?</STRONG> <BR><BR> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Either they are completely out of touch or just don't care; both are equally disturbing. :smileymad:<BR>

Criesi

09-25-2006, 04:44 PM

<P>Well I finally got into crafting and now enjoy but not for much longer.</P> <P>I havent managed to read all 8 pages of people that dont want this to go ahead, but am I the only one looking at the bigger picture. Let me see,</P> <P>95% of starter quests removed<BR>crafting stations now removed from starter towns</P> <P>Lots of comments already about "no point in being in x village now". Maybe this is the real goal from SOE that the starter towns are no longer required once everyone has moved to the city to live and craft. By removing all the TS and the starter villages it will free up lots of server resources - but maybe I am looking to deep.</P> <P>I do like the idea of a customer going to a tailors shop to buy something from a tailor, but if SOE are going to make it work it needs more thought. It is bad enough seeing people sell rare clothing on the broking at half price of the rare, or someone under cutting you by 1c or 1s just so there top. Can you imagine what will happen when a customer walks into a tailors and says to the 30+ tailors there "can someone make x". A bidding war will break out - great for the customer but not for business.</P> <P>Have a rethink about making it work, fine tune it with the TS still open - once it is fine tuned then close the TS.</P><p>Message Edited by Criesi on <span class=date_text>09-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:45 PM</span>

Kenazeer

09-25-2006, 04:45 PM

<P>BTW...this is from the June 9 Producer's Letter</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gallenite wrote:<BR> <P><SPAN><STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>So.<SPAN> </SPAN>What IS next?</FONT></EM></STRONG></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>This past year has seen major improvements to EQ2's gameplay, including <FONT color=#ff0000>the relaxing of many systems we felt were <STRONG>restricting</STRONG> player freedoms.</FONT><SPAN> </SPAN>We're happy to report that the most drastic changes are behind us.<SPAN> </SPAN>What <FONT color=#ff0000>we’re focusing on for the foreseeable future is incremental <STRONG>improvements</STRONG> and additions, as opposed to <STRONG>wholesale systemic changes</STRONG></FONT>, to the game.<SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Good hunting.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>- Scott </SPAN></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Is it just me, or does this change seem counter to the assurances and attitudes expressed in this letter?<BR></P>

Seffrid

09-25-2006, 04:49 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrWolfie wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>Instead of implementing this rubbish, the devs should be working on GUILD HOUSES.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>Here are some of my ideas for them:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>Any guild should be able to initially purchase a guild house, quite cheaply, which would be huge houses in ALL major city zones, so guilds can choose where they want to be based ~ they can even be in neutral cities too. As the guild levels up they would unlock more features (which would have associated status costs, like the rent status of large houses/inn rooms).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>For example, the guild leader could create, name and place individual NPCs to fulfil certain roles (Bankers, Brokers, TS book sellers/fuel vendors, TS writ givers, Menders, Status relic purchasors, maybe even a Fence!)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>The guild bank could be further expandable by allowing crafted boxes to be stored in each of the four tabs (one tab at a time, again unlocked by guild level).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000><EM><STRONG>Access levels could be set by the leader allowing non-guildies to come in and admire the guild's work.</STRONG></EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>Guild members could use their status points to purchase the Crafting Stations, so all the guild's crafters could congregate.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>And the costs:<BR>Each of these special items needs to be unlocked by the guild's level, then they become available to the guild leader to create and place in the guild house. At that point they also require status rent (which would vary depending on how many unique accounts the guild has as members, to the normal minimum of 6).<BR>Which would mean the more members a guild has (in unique accounts, remember) the more status items they'd need to have in the guild house to allow the retention of the services they'd unlocked, thereby getting a majority of the guild members to contribute to the upkeep of the guild house and it's "perks". Small guilds would pay less status than large guilds, but large guild should have more resources to call upon. Hopefully, nothing gets priced out of reach for any guild but every item still requires some work and dedication.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff>Now that's what I'd call a "Game Update".</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ffff></FONT> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>How patronising is that to non-guildmembers?!</P> <P>Whatever solution is decided on for tradeskill stations, it should be a solution that is equally available to all who play the game, irrespective of guild membership. Of course there should be benefits from belonging to a guild, but it should not become a mandatory requirement of playing the game.</P>

msheaf

09-25-2006, 05:06 PM

Here is another vote to leave the TS instances in the villiages. <div></div>

Thicket Tundrabog

09-25-2006, 05:10 PM

Getting rid of tradeskill instances is a very bad idea!! I suspect some SoE folks are thinking "yup... players don't like changes and will complain. Once the changes are in place, most people will accept them." May I suggest that you are wrong this time.Personally, I will move to tradeskilling in my house where I have all tradeskilling stations. It will be less convenient, but I will have to adapt. Many (most?) players won't have this luxury.Many of the new tradeskilling stations are located in cramped spaces. Heck, I have to jump over furniture to get to one of the looms in North Qeynos.<div></div>

SanDalghi

09-25-2006, 05:44 PM

DeathEater024

09-25-2006, 05:58 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Seltha wrote:<BR> <P>Ooh, finally, I can craft from the safety of my flying carpet, wearing my level 50 fluff sparkly spell, how cool is that going to be!</P> <P>---</P> <P>In all seriousness, I like the concept of the change, I hated the TS dungeons with a passion, especially when you click them and then crash to character select like happens all too often. It's especially embarrassing when you take 4 rare items from a customer to turn them in and then promptly log out. Real professional. So overall IMO this is a good change, the execution may need a few tweaks but overall it is a sound concept. The stress test Monday will show them if they need to tweak anything in the town zones themselves.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#66ff00>You have crashed from clicking on a crafting station, wow I have spent 100's of hours crafting and haven't had this happen once and it's not like I am running a powerfully pc. Real professional would be to have a crafting society like we do, would you really let someone come into your inn's kitchen and cook a bunch of food and leave I mean common, and would you if you owned a store let someone come in and sale their wares for free. Blah I think not.</FONT><BR>

MrWolfie

09-25-2006, 06:15 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Seffrid wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrWolfie wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><FONT color=#ff0000><EM><STRONG>Access levels could be set by the leader allowing non-guildies to come in and admire the guild's work.</STRONG></EM></FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>How patronising is that to non-guildmembers?!</P> <P>Whatever solution is decided on for tradeskill stations, it should be a solution that is equally available to all who play the game, irrespective of guild membership. Of course there should be benefits from belonging to a guild, but it should not become a mandatory requirement of playing the game.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It was never my intent that the existance of guild houses be patronising to non-guildies. Just that if someone goes to all that effort to make a guild house and equip it and display trophies of their achievements, it's possible that they might want to show it off to people outside of their guild, and that they should be able to choose to do so ~ just like inn and house owners can already choose to set access levels to their houses. (and if guilds want to actually create an alternative to TS instances in their guild houses and open them up for the general public ~ why not give them to tools to do so?)</P> <P>Of course, none of this is intended to replace tradeskill instances. They should remain as they are and, in my opinion, the developers should get on with some other stuff that's more pressing...</P> <P> </P>

Yorath

09-25-2006, 06:56 PM

<P>Here is my 2 cents on this matter.<BR>Its bad enough that I have to run around between the my house and the TS instance and now THIS. Come on SOE. This is an insult<BR>I can't believe that you folks spent time on doing this and whats worse I can't believe players requested this.<BR>I would strongly recommend that you abandon this line of changes or at least leave the starter town instances on</P>

Allowin

09-25-2006, 07:05 PM

ok, after a good 2 hours of running around testing the new stations ill give my comments.***********disclaimer************im doing this from memory so give me a break. also, i typo alot...first zone i tried was qeynos harbor. went to the place where the mender is. close to the bank. it wasnt to bad. the forges were spaced out quite nice (the place has been totaly empty since the game was released so thats not a suprise) i think this might work...might being the key word. didnt see any writ givers or any tradeskill people at all. just a person to buy fuel from. the only problem i see is only 1 way in and 1 way out. if they add another door to the back side, it would help. 2 people on horses would make this entire building where you couldnt get into it.as for the ale house (fish ale house, where the 2 room apts are) thats a joke. theres no way in heck you could get in there and craft. the table is stuck between 2 bar counters with 2 npc's on each side. if 1 person stands between the counters, the only way to get to the station is to go around the sides and jump over the counters and wiggle past the npc's.the other place (across from the place to start a guild) is a joke. theres no use in even talking about it. no way at all to have more than 2 people craft there.in qeynos harbor i saw no tradeskill writ giver or anything. just fuel vendors close to the machines.next was south qeynos. after 20 mins of looking for machines i gave up after only finding a few of them. 1 was in the house across from the stable. the stations werent as cramped as the ones in the harbor but there was not much room.dont even get me started on the mage tower. THIS WAS THE STUPIDIST PLACE IN THE ENTIRE GAME TO PUT A CRAFTING AREA. you might as well stick them 200 feet underwater 400 feet from shore in antonica. standing there for 30 seconds having to listen to that stupid wooshing sound that the teleporters make made me want to kick my computer. not to mention your about 2 feet away from the teleporters. max of 2 or 3 people per machine. bump your mouse or keyboard and prepare to be sent up to one of the towers. and yet again i didnt see any writ givers, no bank or broker anywhere close. if you want to craft with your speakers on mute and your keyboard and mouse unplugged so you dont move, this is a fine place.north qeynos. which turned out to be the most promising place.spent 20 mins trying to find the machines and i still couldnt find them all. the only good point i could find from this whole change came from north qeynos. the forges at the armor/weaponsmith shop were outside. outside in the nice weather and green grass (except for when it rains) the old furniture shop is a joke. 2 tables up at the very top and cramed so close together if you try and get to the one close to the edge you wind up falling off the ledge and fall back down to the bottom floor. with just me in the building, it was already a pain to move around. the bakery was not any better. you have a ton of kitchen tables just slammed all together. there are 2 or 3 stove and kegs in this 1 room along with the counters, npc's and other visual object from before. get use to having jump over, around and through npc's and object to get to your station. not to mention they already have npc's standing infront of the tables already.the clothes shop was almost as bad as the mage tower. 2 looms shoved behind the counters that were already there. 1 of them you cant even get to. the object in the room are so squeezed together you get hung while trying to get to it. you have to get a running start and jump over a table and a chair to even get to the machine. the other one is stuck behind some stairs in a area thats not even big enough for the loom itself. total clutter.the jewelry place was a little better but still way too much clutter. everything feels like your in a sardine can. too much stuff shoved ijnto too little space. upstairs in the barber shop is 1 chem table. if any of you remember the barber shop, its too small without the chem table. now it looks like a storage closet.over all feeling...there is 0 difference in the way the crafting is now to what they are wanting to change in the way of visuals. your still in a cramped building staring at the same stupid brown wood walls just like the ts instance. theres no differenc there.as for space and showing off your ability...how many of you care what somebody looks like when they craft your item? every single crafter looks the same when your crafting. we ALL have the exact same visuals when we craft. all chemist stir the same bowl as the next. lvl 1 or lvl 70. all woodworkers hold the same exact piece of wood when they craft. they all do the same exact thing. lvl 1 to lvl 70. nobody can see any of the unique things that happen when we craft. my customers standing watching me craft cant see anything that i do. they cant see any of the reactions i do to a effect. they see nothing different than every other crafter of my class does. so sony can take that "plus" and shove it.all it boils down to is they are trying to skimp on server space and hardware for the new expansion and they are gonna do whatever they want to make up for it. i posted this for those of you who cant make it today to see for yourself. what i post, or what any of you post will not make a difference. they care 0 about how much of a pain this will be to the crafting community. this update will roll out when they want it to no matter how much complaining we do.all of these changes look like last second thoughts. 90% of the stations looks like somebody just dropped them there and ran off. total clutter. they removed none of the visual "junk" from any of these houses. they were all full of tables, chairs, stools, counters, npc's and other stuff that made them cramped before. now with the huge ts machines cramme din, its just overboard.they didnt care when they totaly screwed the game when dof was released. we all cried and raised cain but it didnt get changed.just like when they changed ts'ing. and when they changed the game again and again. they didnt care when we all cried to not remove the ts machines in everfrost and they dont care what we think now. they are going to do what they want and no amount of begging, crying or raising cain will change it.goodbye tradeskilling...you were fun while you lasted.you will be missed<div></div>

Ardenauk

09-25-2006, 07:46 PM

I left the game last year because of the crap that crafters had to put up with, at that time I was a crafter and very low lvl adventurer. Sony has always treated crafters like very poor second thoughts. I came back this year (only because I missed my in game friends) just after LU24, what they had done to crafters did not surprise me in the least, the new crafting is horrible, goodness knows what they thought they were doing. I decided the only way I could stay in the game was to become an adventurer which is what I now am, but silly me i also made another crafter to help out guildies. I have a lvl 70 sage and provisioner and a lvl 59 WW. The changes that they are now making are certainly for nobody's convenience other than Sony's, imagine the uproar if they were to do something similar to fighters, but yet again it is the soft target of the crafter that gets it. Why don't they just do away with ctrafting all together? As things stand they seem to be trying to make people give it up, so just be honest with the player base and get rid

Loredena

09-25-2006, 08:03 PM

<P><FONT color=#3366ff size=3>Some initial feedback.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff size=3>I spent the weekend leveling an alt on Test, and decided to attempt to look at the changes from the viewpoint of a brand new player.<SPAN> </SPAN>These are my thoughts as a result.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff size=3>While on the island, I saw and entered a tradeskill instance.<SPAN> </SPAN>I also acquired a note directing me to visit a tradeskill society in Qeynos, listing 6 societies.<SPAN> </SPAN>When I arrived in Nettleville I spoke with my Kerran mentor, which had me running around the village.<SPAN> </SPAN>During that time, I never saw the society, even though I looked for an instance like that which I had seen on the island.<SPAN> </SPAN>From Nettleville, my mentor sent me to Peat Bog, and from there I went to the Caves.<SPAN> </SPAN>The Caves quest line eventually sent me to Antonica.<SPAN> </SPAN>Note that at this point I am in my midteens and have not yet been in<SPAN> </SPAN>Qeynos proper.<SPAN> </SPAN>I have not found a tradeskill instance, or society, or tradeskill instructor.<SPAN> </SPAN>I have also not found a broker (and in fact am unaware of its existence, where I would have stumbled upon it in Nettleville previously) and have bought food and drink from an NPC provisioner.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff size=3>After a death in Antonica landed me at the Qeynos gates, I ventured in and explored a bit.<SPAN> </SPAN>I still never found a broker, but I did stumble upon the tradeskill NPCs.<SPAN> </SPAN>Of course, I was a bit confused – there were two, a tradeskill representative and a trainer (I think, not sure of names now).<SPAN> </SPAN>The one on the left, who I hailed first, gave me the level 3 book.<SPAN> </SPAN>But I was still level 1.<SPAN> </SPAN>The one on the right gave me the level 2 book, and dinged me to two.<SPAN> </SPAN>A bit confusing, since initially I only spoke to the first.<SPAN> </SPAN>Further, I missed entirely the dialogue regarding training that the first gave.<SPAN> </SPAN>Had I not been with someone else, who pointed it out, I would not have acquired the initial tradeskill quest – neither of the NPCs had quest markers, either the ‘I have one!’ nor the ‘ready for a turn in’.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff size=3>I also noticed that many of the buildings with merchants are now rather crowded with the addition of tradeskill work stations.<SPAN> </SPAN>Most especially I noticed it with the Spinsisters shop in NQ – two of us were doing a quest completion there while a single person was using the sewing workstation – it was very crowded, and I had to maneuver to click on the quest NPC.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff size=3>My first thoughts therefore are this:<SPAN> </SPAN>for a true new player, they are likely to be in their teens or even their 20s before figuring out how/where to tradeskill, and learning of the existence of brokers.<SPAN> </SPAN>I also noted that without brokers in the villages, it is likely that sales off of the brokers will decrease, especially on the low end, as 1st) new players don’t find the broker until much later and 2nd) as ‘browsing’ and impulse purchases decrease without being able to quickly access a broker in ones home village (how many people really rebind, or most especially rebind into a city rather then village zone I wonder).<SPAN> </SPAN>Sales from the village inn rooms are also likely to go down in preference to those from city inn rooms, but perhaps that is one of the hoped for results, to encourage moving out of the free inn rooms.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#3366ff size=3>I will give feedback on the initial tradeskill quest after doing it tonight during the play test.</FONT></P>

Oumana

09-25-2006, 08:05 PM

<DIV>My input as a 70 alchemist, 28 Armorer....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First, leave crafting in the instances, just remove the doors. There you go, no other change needed to <U><STRONG>where</STRONG> </U>we craft. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Second, before making this change, please FIX the issues identified in any of the tradeskill class forums here. I can point to tons of fixes, suggestions, etc that should be done before this. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We as crafters don't care about WHERE we are crafting, we care about WHAT we are crafting! </DIV>

Zaldor

09-25-2006, 08:08 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oumana wrote:<BR> <DIV>My input as a 70 alchemist, 28 Armorer....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First, leave crafting in the instances, just remove the doors. There you go, no other change needed to <U><STRONG>where</STRONG> </U>we craft. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Second, before making this change, please FIX the issues identified in any of the tradeskill class forums here. I can point to tons of fixes, suggestions, etc that should be done before this. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>We as crafters don't care about WHERE we are crafting, we care about WHAT we are crafting! </FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You know...I think you're on to something there. <BR>

Allurana

09-25-2006, 08:09 PM

WHY!?!Has there been any answer as to why?I have 9 crafters (1 of each). My lowest level crafter is currently level 50. That is right I have 9 crafter characters that are Tier 6 and higher.Why is the question I want answered.I have 2 high level adventure characters that I use to go out and harvest for all my lesser crafter characters. I had all my crafters located in ONE crafting instance. I had all my characters bound there. My main harvesters could call of qeynos to right outside the crafting instance WHICH HAS EVERYTHING I NEED except a mailbox.It has a fuel vendor, it has the writ givers, it has a broker all nicely located in 1 small little zone. Nice, neat, convenient.With the layout that is on test, doing work orders will take TONS more time just running around. Most the machines are located in buildings that people that don't craft WON'T go in. So what is the point of this psuedo new recognition that is being claimed?Please for the love of all that is sane and worthwhile, DO NOT remove the crafting instances or at least make a new crafting super zone with travel capabilities and all the appropriate NPC fuel vendors, book sellers, writ givers and brokers (and a mailbox).It is surprising that you can get anyone to craft anymore as it is since selling crafted items other than alchemy, carpenter and provisioner is next to impossible.The removal of sub-combines was a master stroke of genius, the removal of the societies was a good move since it wasn't being used.Please don't make this change as it currently stands.There really is no point to this change.1. Get your crafter seen - whatever I will be stuck in various buildings in zones people don't really want to go to unless they are getting writs or going to their house.2. Give the crafter a change in scenery - whatever again, when I craft my screen if filled with all my open bags the crafting machine screen, etc... I can't see anything other than that. I don't even see the nifty machine animation during the combine.YOU WILL BE MAKING IT MORE INCONVENIENT FOR CRAFTERS IF YOU DO THIS!!!!!I do not understand why a change would be proposed that does NOT have an upside. Is there other reasons that this is being proposed that we were not told about? Most of us are big boys and girls, I think we can handle the truth if there is other "secret" reasons. Help us to "buy in" to this change.This could have all been avoided a LONG time ago if you all would have put some prgramming time toward guild halls and allowing us to buy each machine, a fuel vendor, a writ giver, a mailbox and a broker for our guild hall.You could even have allowed us to do quests or buy with guild status a guild broker that could have a "tree" to its commission structure where the town gets a cut of the 20% fee and the guild gets a cut. like 50/50 or something.Something like that could foster the creation of crafting guilds, new guild rewards, give non-guilded adventures a reason to go to your guild hall (maybe a big quest or status purchase guild level related way to buy a broker that has the less than 20% fee).You could come up with TONS of neat ideas here. Ways to spread out the players, ways to make shopping the markets more interesting, ways to trully show off your crafters and crafting abilities.Come on Sony, I believe you all have been doing a GREAT job so far with your changes and suggestions. This one needs MAJOR re-thought before going live.Thanks,Allurana - Armorer 66Beauti - Alchemist 68Semina - Tailor 60Timbernoch - Provisioner 55Gild - Carpenter - 53Flamin - Sage 52Seminas - Jeweler 51Cabanka - Woodworker 50Hippitty - Weaponsmith 50Blackburrow Server

Kordran

09-25-2006, 08:21 PM

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Allowin wrote:<BR><BR>all it boils down to is they are trying to skimp on server space and hardware for the new expansion and they are gonna do whatever they want to make up for it.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Sounds like that could be one of the motivating factors. By eliminating all of the individual tradeskill instances, they're effectively removing about 15 zones from the game. I wonder if there's some architectual limitation or defect in the game's design they're trying to work around, that manifested itself with all of the new zones being added by EoF... if that's the case, I'd never expect to hear a developer discuss it (or this decision) publically.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Saihung23

09-25-2006, 08:29 PM

<P>umm...wow...I really don't like the sounds of this change.</P> <P> </P> <P>How will carpenters fare in rush orders when they have to run across a zone to get from a woodworkers table to a loom...</P> <P>I am sure that problem will be seen by other crafting classes as well...</P> <P> </P> <P>I like the idea of crafting in new areas...and reducing instances...but this is a poor way to implement it in my humble opinion.</P> <P> </P> <P>Please take the players suggestions and rethink this plan.</P>

Zaldor

09-25-2006, 08:33 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kordran wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Allowin wrote:<BR><BR>all it boils down to is they are trying to skimp on server space and hardware for the new expansion and they are gonna do whatever they want to make up for it.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Sounds like that could be one of the motivating factors. By eliminating all of the individual tradeskill instances, they're effectively removing about 15 zones from the game. I wonder if there's some architectual limitation or defect in the game's design they're trying to work around, that manifested itself with all of the new zones being added by EoF... if that's the case, I'd never expect to hear a developer discuss it (or this decision) publically.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>IF this is the reason then this bodes VERY bad for the future of this game. What will they remove for the next expansion (not really an expansion if you lose a chunk to gain a chunk, more like a "diversion")?</P> <P>I think what is telling right now is the lack of response from anyone on the payroll at SOE.</P><p>Message Edited by Zaldor on <span class=date_text>09-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:37 AM</span>

Cybrdroyd

09-25-2006, 08:41 PM

<P>I have to say that I was just on testserver. I walked around for a half hour until I finally found a crafting station, and only because someone showed me where, in east freeport. </P> <P>I am not and will not be happy with this change, devs, please don't do it.</P>

AnnMarieR

09-25-2006, 08:48 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Allurana wrote:This could have all been avoided a LONG time ago if you all would have put some prgramming time toward guild halls and allowing us to buy each machine, a fuel vendor, a writ giver, a mailbox and a broker for our guild hall.<hr></blockquote>Much as I agree with, or see the point, of most of what you said, PLEASE don't equate solving this situation with adding more Guild-only abilities..... its bad enough at the moment that solo's who do everything on there own, no help from others - with usually is one definition of a hero - are considered a nithing unless they are part of a guild so their recognition (SP) can be used. I love crafting... I sometimes adventure..... I've dealt with guild in the past on and off, sometimes it works out, sometimes not. I had to join a guild just to 'buy' a 650 SP ornate table mirror which doesn't even work properly (it reflects the floor, despite being angled up). Not everyone is a guildmember, not everyone wants to be a guild member. Of course, SoE might benefit from the guild-centric attitude, because more people will get a 2nd account just so they can have a solo-guild of 1-2... them and the 2nd account to invite the alts in.Currently, with the cost and guild-requiremnts, I'm stuffed if I wanted to put craft-stations into my house, I'm stuck with this new system if they go ahead with it.What I would be willing to do (Runnyeye Server), is I would buy a 2-3 room house, and if people would help me put the craft stations in (as trustees), I will make the 'house' a craft centre for anyone.It would be an inn-room/house TS instance.... they might remove the proper ones, but this way, we could have several plae where we all could work.</div>

Kordran

09-25-2006, 09:04 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zaldor wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>IF this is the reason then this bodes VERY bad for the future of this game. What will they remove for the next expansion (not really an expansion if you lose a chunk to gain a chunk, more like a "diversion")?</P> <P>I think what is telling right now is the lack of response from anyone on the payroll at SOE.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yup. Now, it could be some kind of issue where they know what they need to do to address the problem, but won't have the resources to implement the changes needed until after EoF is released. I think it's safe to assume at this point, with about 6 weeks to go before launch, that's what they're focusing on.</P> <P>It would be nice to know what their thinking was on this, and if the removal of the tradeskill instances was purely cosmetic, or if they decided it was necessary because of some technical issue. If it's strictly a cosmetic change, then it's pretty clear that it's something they should strongly reconsider <STRONG>not</STRONG> doing. If there's a technical reason for the change, then are they removing those instances as a temporary work-around until they resolve the underlying problem, or not?</P> <P>It's been several days now. Players are owed an answer by a developer on this issue, and what's going to be done to resolve it. Even if it's an answer that most of us won't like, that's better than silence, leaving players to their own conjecture.</P>

AlkonTheWarrior

09-25-2006, 09:07 PM

<P>Evidenlty, if you want a dev response to any input or feedback, you have to make nicey posts about fairy language or lore. </P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/tracker?role=Dev" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/tracker?role=Dev</A></P> <P>At least they seem to be spending their time wisely (sc=10000%). </P> <P>Anyone else find it a joke that this is where most of the dev responses lie?</P>

EtoilePirate

09-25-2006, 09:44 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>AlkonTheWarrior wrote:<div></div> <p>Evidenlty, if you want a dev response to any input or feedback, you have to make nicey posts about fairy language or lore. </p> <p><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/tracker?role=Dev" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/tracker?role=Dev</a></p> <p>At least they seem to be spending their time wisely (sc=10000%). </p> <p>Anyone else find it a joke that this is where most of the dev responses lie?</p><hr></blockquote>No need for that.You know that little box that shows you "recent logins?"There were red names logging in at 11:30, midnight, all weekend. Late. And this is their job; would you want to work a 24/7 workweek? I've got no problem with someone who works for a living not responding to their work over the weekend!</div>

Allowin

09-25-2006, 09:48 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Kordran wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Zaldor wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <p>IF this is the reason then this bodes VERY bad for the future of this game. What will they remove for the next expansion (not really an expansion if you lose a chunk to gain a chunk, more like a "diversion")?</p> <p>I think what is telling right now is the lack of response from anyone on the payroll at SOE.</p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Yup. Now, it could be some kind of issue where they know what they need to do to address the problem, but won't have the resources to implement the changes needed until after EoF is released. I think it's safe to assume at this point, with about 6 weeks to go before launch, that's what they're focusing on.</p> <p>It would be nice to know what their thinking was on this, and if the removal of the tradeskill instances was purely cosmetic, or if they decided it was necessary because of some technical issue. If it's strictly a cosmetic change, then it's pretty clear that it's something they should strongly reconsider <strong>not</strong> doing. If there's a technical reason for the change, then are they removing those instances as a temporary work-around until they resolve the underlying problem, or not?</p> <p>It's been several days now. Players are owed an answer by a developer on this issue, and what's going to be done to resolve it. Even if it's an answer that most of us won't like, that's better than silence, leaving players to their own conjecture.</p><hr></blockquote>remember when they merged the servers "for a better gaming enviroment'and they also said that it was to help the game and make the game grow?i was yanked off neriak server and thrown onto another server that i didnt care to be on. sure they offered to let me move to any other server of my choice for free.....any server but the one i was already on. remember that? remember when that happened? right before kos was released.. right before the pvp servers went live?they needed empty server to run as pvp, and they needed extra hardware to run the kos zones. so they dumped everybody into a smaller number of servers and all of a sudden we went from nice running servers (for the most part. even with the rare crashes) to lag filled, often crashing, heavy loaded servers..</div>

Dorien_Lytefoot

09-25-2006, 10:09 PM

<div></div>Well, I am on TC now and Ironforge Exchange has been removed as well.I have explored around and there doesn't seem to be an NPC to buy IE faction stuff from anymore either, so I guess thats gone too <span>:smileysad:</span>This was not thought out well at all.<div></div>

AlkonTheWarrior

09-25-2006, 10:09 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> EtoilePB wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AlkonTheWarrior wrote:<BR> <P>Evidenlty, if you want a dev response to any input or feedback, you have to make nicey posts about fairy language or lore. </P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/tracker?role=Dev" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/tracker?role=Dev</A></P> <P>At least they seem to be spending their time wisely (sc=10000%). </P> <P>Anyone else find it a joke that this is where most of the dev responses lie?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>No need for that.<BR><BR>You know that little box that shows you "recent logins?"<BR><BR>There were red names logging in at 11:30, midnight, all weekend. Late. And this is their job; would you want to work a 24/7 workweek? I've got no problem with someone who works for a living not responding to their work over the weekend!<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Re-read what I wrote. </P> <P>Did i say they didn't work? or work hard?</P> <P>I commented on WHERE they respond, not how often, or WHEN. </P><p>Message Edited by AlkonTheWarrior on <span class=date_text>09-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:23 PM</span>

Lizziebeth

09-25-2006, 10:34 PM

I just want to sound in on this .. I think it is incredibly .. well .. stupid. I wouldn't mind if you gave us the option of crafting out in the open or in our 'basement' tradeskill zones, but to force us out in to the cities is just wrong! The city zones in this world have more lag than any other zones in the entire game. I think it's really sad that folks are just telling others to get more memory and upgrade their computers so they can craft! Why not leave the old zones and let us choose for ourselves where to craft? I happen to have a very new and very powerful computer, and yet I still have to turn things down when in the big cities. Not only are the cities very laggy right now, but add in all the crafters and the lag is going to increase unbelievably. If your plan was to force us to buy tradeskill devices for our rooms, then why not simply lower the prices so more can afford them?<div></div>

Solento

09-25-2006, 10:47 PM

Gosh, I'm looking forward to this. Crafting station / merchant / broker / bank all in the same zone? Sounds like heaven to me. Getting some use out of the previously useless buildings in the city zones? Bonus.<div></div>

Maroger

09-25-2006, 10:53 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Solento wrote:<BR>Gosh, I'm looking forward to this. Crafting station / merchant / broker / bank all in the same zone? Sounds like heaven to me. Getting some use out of the previously useless buildings in the city zones? Bonus.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You are being sarcastic of course??<BR>

Kordran

09-25-2006, 10:55 PM

<P>I can't see where forcing players to craft in their homes would be the goal; in fact, it would seem that the relatively high cost and other requirements (personal status, guild level, etc.) would indicate the opposite. After all, if every carfter went into their own apartments to do it, that would make things significantly worse. Think of all of the additional instances that would create, complete with all of the stuff people usually have in their homes. It would exponentially <EM>increase</EM> server load, not decrease it.</P> <P>As far as the other poster's comments about the server merges, I can see where a merge would be considered a good thing on lower population servers; more people to play with can make the game more fun. However, it seems pretty clear that their client isn't capable of handling high load environments. The primary issue is that it appears to have a rather nasty resource leak whenever you zone. Zone enough times, and inevitably you'll "black screen" and crash to desktop. Folks who don't play for long stretches of time, or have higher end systems and more physical memory don't see it as often, but it's only really delaying the inevitable. It's why many folks will camp to desktop and log back in right before a raid, for example. In any case, if their client was actually capable of maintaining a reasonable framerate in high popluation areas, I think you'd have far fewer folks upset about this change (although the placement of some of the stations sounds like they leave much to be desired).</P> <P>The truth is, on Balanced settings with a pretty nice system, more than 30 players or so in an immediate area (all visible and within clip range) brings the client to its knees. If their long term goal is to make the cities look "busier" then they need to address the fundamental issues with the design of their client, first. Otherwise, it's putting the cart before the horse.</P><p>Message Edited by Kordran on <span class=date_text>09-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:58 AM</span>

Bhazell

09-25-2006, 11:13 PM

I just want to throw my 2 cp into this debate. I like to craft and moving out of the basements was never on my wish list of new crafting fixs. If the aim was to get us out into the open why did the TS iceberg in Everfrost melt? It seems that was crafting stations out in the open. All that would need to be added was a vendor to sell coal candles etc. and the 2 NPC's for the writs. A bank and broker would be nice but not really adeal breaker for me. But No the berg melts and we are now stuck in cramped buildings with about 1/3 of the machines we use to have. Great plan.

DeathEater024

09-25-2006, 11:15 PM

<P>here is some unconctructive feedback /<FONT color=#99ff00>pukes</FONT></P> <P>:smileysad:</P> <P><FONT color=#99ff00>lol</FONT></P>

Cerulien

09-25-2006, 11:39 PM

Put me down under the "worst idea ever" list. When I saw the test update that crafting stations were going in above ground, I didn't think much of it...great for those who live in the city zones. But removing the TS instances?!?!?! That is absolutely insane. Please don't do it. You might as well completely remove the racial home towns if that is the case.

Microphage

09-25-2006, 11:53 PM

<P>Item 1: Removal of all tradeskill instances and replacing them with a few scattered workstations is insane.</P> <P>Item 2: Ensuring more players spend more time in high traffic/high lag zones thus creating more lag is insane.</P> <P>Item 3: The devs are probably not insane.</P> <P>Speculation: Maybe they are not even planning to remove the TS instances on live, but are doing this test so they can get enough people to test the non-instanced versions. A bit of social engineering for a cause? :smileytongue:</P>

AlkonTheWarrior

09-26-2006, 12:18 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Microphage wrote:<BR> <P>Item 1: Removal of all tradeskill instances and replacing them with a few scattered workstations is insane.</P> <P>Item 2: Ensuring more players spend more time in high traffic/high lag zones thus creating more lag is insane.</P> <P>Item 3: The devs are probably not insane.</P> <P>Speculation: Maybe they are not even planning to remove the TS instances on live, but are doing this test so they can get enough people to test the non-instanced versions. A bit of social engineering for a cause? :smileytongue:</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I would agree with you, but, to quote the test update note</P> <P> </P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Crafting: No Longer Underground! ***<BR></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00></FONT></STRONG></P> <P>Unless they mean No Longer JUST Underground. And if that were the case, don't you think someone, anyone, would have posted that to stem the tide of 10+ pages and 10+ threads about it? </P> <P> </P>

Solento

09-26-2006, 12:55 AM

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Solento wrote:Gosh, I'm looking forward to this. Crafting station / merchant / broker / bank all in the same zone? Sounds like heaven to me. Getting some use out of the previously useless buildings in the city zones? Bonus.<div></div><hr></blockquote>You are being sarcastic of course??<hr></blockquote>Heck no. Yes, I have a concern about lag. Yes, I feel for the crafters that may have to run all over a large city zone to craft their goods. And yes, I know this is going to have a very <i>interesting</i> impact on Rush Orders.I also know that I've been itching to have access to a bank in a crafting zone for <i>ages</i>. I know that the tradeskill training merchants belonged in the same zones as the crafting workstations, not just outside the doors. I also know that I've felt there was a *lot* of wasted real estate in the cities with buildings you couldn't enter or shops you'd have no reason to ever visit. With some intelligent design behind the effort, this could make for some very dynamic and useful city zones. By "intelligent design," I mean specifically placing the crafting stations in practical spots relative to the necessary zone resources, be they merchants, writ-givers, or related crafting workstations. For example, tossing a loom in the back of the blacksmith's shop. If all of the resources necessary for a profession to do its job are in close proximity to one another...well, heck, the situation could be better than it ever was. I always hated having to run past the broker and up the stairs between the forge and the loom when making my weapons in Freeport.That being said, I think the current distribution of resources could use some redistributing. As is, the Block and Tackle in South Freeport seems to be the only building with a really useful spread of crafting stations (forge/loom access). A few more buildings given thought like this for the various professions, and I'd be very happy indeed.</div>

Tiegar

09-26-2006, 01:23 AM

<P>This is a most unexpected change. It seems to me, that the people in charge of this change have not considered fully enough how this change will impact the player community. First, in the recent changes to the crafting system, they made it easier, more fun to do crafting, then because more people started doing it, the prices on the crafted items went down the toilet, so there is really no incentive to put crafted items on the broker unless they are made with rare component items, and those items are priced so high that the people who could actually use them, can't afford them unless they have an ubber main character who has a lot of cash. Also, they reduced the tradeskill instances in the villages from several to one. Now, they are taking those away and moving them to zones that already have lag issues.</P> <P>If you want to make it easier to swallow these changes, there are a few ideas you can incorporate:</P> <P>1. Make sure there is a broker at each area where crafting is done.</P> <P>2. Make sure the scrolls vendors and component venders are also at each location.</P> <P>3. Make sure a banker is very near by, or in the tradeskills instance (if these are tradeskill instances.)</P> <P>People who want to do crafting, don't want to waste al ot of their valuable play time running around doing logistical stuff. They want to craft. If you Sony, are really interested in your game thriving, you need to really listen to your players because, guess what, there are other games out there which want your accounts to be their accounts. If you continue to screw over the people who play this game, they will go someplace else where they will be appreciated and treated better.</P> <P>Best regards,</P> <P>Now make it right <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Armous.</P>

tracheaspider

09-26-2006, 02:35 AM

<P>This is a <EM>horrible</EM> change! HORRIBLE!</P> <P>I didn't think anything of it when I read the Test update notes because I assumed the suburb craft instances would be left in. Imagine my surprise when I logged in today to check the reply bubble resizing feature (which I still can't find) and found out they took all the instances out.</P> <P>I loved the new tradeskill writs because the alleviated some of the boredom of grinding levels. They require a bit more attention than usual and don't slow leveling down much because the writ giver was a floor or two away. I'm not, however, going to run from end to end of the laggiest zones in the city for a bit of status and cash after every 6 items I make when I'm trying to ding. It's beyond stupid.</P> <P>Not to mention, I've tried a few writs over on Test server just now--an hour and a half before the scheduled playtest--and I'm already lagged from running around and crafting. It's especially bad if I get near a building interior. Normally it takes me a few hours of instance dungeon crawling and a trip or two through QH on the much higher population live servers before my FPS goes all to heck. If I'm getting disruptive lag on a server with so few players currently logged in, I can't even fathom how bad it will be on Oasis during peak hours.</P> <P>Some people say it's "convenient" to have craft tables and writ givers in the same zone as the bank and mail boxes, but given how incredibly spread out all of these are, I can't agree. I was just commenting in a different thread how, because of lag issues, it's more convenient to zone from QH to the suburbs for banking rather than run to the bank in QH. This just compounds the issue since everyone will have to go into those zones to use the broker.</P> <P>And, well, if you devs want to leave in the city zone craft stations, knock yourselves out. <EM>Just don't remove the suburb craft instances</EM>! ARGH!</P>

EQ2Playa432

09-26-2006, 02:49 AM

I will be there! Are we using any specific chat channel? Or just /test?<div></div>

Rrys

09-26-2006, 02:51 AM

<P>The crafting instance changes (if it means losing the village/district crafting instances) should be aborted!</P> <P>However, if SOE insists on making the change anyway and taking away the outlying crafting instances, please add a new item (similar to the in-home mailboxes) called the "Work Orders Clipboard". Then , I'll finally purchase the crafting stations and put them in one of my rooms. Heck, maybe I'll just move to Kelethin "lock, stock and barrel". Then put my new crafting stations there in my new housing. Shake the dust of Qeynos off my feet (except perhaps Qeynos Harbor) forever.</P> <P>As I type this, my toon is in Sneeds, at an engraved desk. The lag is abominable, the distractions are untenable (various grunts, beeps, burps, dings, etc) and I wish somebody would PUT A SOCK IN Algernon!</P> <P> </P>

StevusX

09-26-2006, 03:12 AM

<DIV> <P>To all those people who might be thinking this is all a good idea by Soe.....</P> <P>Hope you are aware that there WERE 24 TS instances - then there were 6 - now there are these TS tables in 3 city zones......</P> <P>So you will have ALL the crafters (well those left) from 24 instances being forced into 3 city zones - one of which ALREADY lags badly........</P> <P>Lag - ha - wait til this goes live.... and all the griefers start as they run through.....and all the horses.... and all the pets......and npcs......and adventurers passing thru...</P> <P> </P> <P>OH JOY <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif" width=16 border=0></P></DIV>

Zaldor

09-26-2006, 03:43 AM

<P>I'd just like to know when all the adventure zones are being removed from the game and we can all hang out in Qeynos and Freeport and get "social".</P> <P> </P> <P>Zaldor - I bought two collectors editions at launch because of the tradeskilling, man was that dumb</P><p>Message Edited by Zaldor on <span class=date_text>09-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:12 PM</span>

Kain Hammersmith

09-26-2006, 04:36 AM

<P>I prefer to keep the instances the way they are now on live. Adding the stations to the city zones wouldn't be bad as long as I have the option to go back to the crafting dungeon to craft if I want to. Lag is my number 1 concern about the proposed changes. Before anyone says get a better computer, sure I'll will get a better comp when your money gets here. I have a good machine but I lag in QH and sometimes in NQ. I can't imagine how bad it would be if all the crafters, me included, were outside causing more lag.</P> <P>Please leave the instances in, add the stations to the city zones, and if enough people move out of the instances without causing too much lag then we can revisit the idea of getting rid off them. More choices are allways better than less.</P> <P>Thanks again for the Q&A in NQ tonight. I feel better that we know you are listening to us.</P> <P>Kiana do I pay you for the glasses or is there some mailorder company I need to contact...hehe</P>

Teircen

09-26-2006, 04:38 AM

<P>I'm posting this following the big test on the Test server to see how crafting tables in various city zones went and following Glendral's statement that we should post thoughts to the boards as well. Hopefully this would be the right thread for posting feedback.</P> <P>First, I think the responses were pretty overwhelmingly consistent in what people wanted so that should speak for itself a lot.</P> <P>My own thoughts are as follows...</P> <P>#1) I like choice. If there were crafting stations in the city zones I'd use them sometimes. On quick orders from other players, sure, I may have the fuel on hand or if there's a vendor for it nearby that works. I'd use city zones... unless they were laggy as they were on test. If laggy or if doing a lot of work I'd probably stick with instanced zones if available.</P> <P>#2) As was frequently pointed out, having stations in city zones is prone to issues with mounts and pets and, something I didn't see commented much, some of the illusions get pretty darn big too. As a primarily warden character my wolf form is alarmingly big compared to my elf form and a couple shape shifters around one station would obscure it pretty completely let alone what mounts do. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>#3) The reasons given for the change were essentially to make the crafters more a part of the "community". That while there is a general crafting community it was expressed that the crafting and adventuring communities are too segregated and this would help alleviate that. I just don't see it. Unless you force all crafters to become adventurers and do all their crafting in the middle of fights you've just moved the crafters into the same city zones as adventurers... if the adventurers are even there. Most adventurers won't be in city zones except when shopping or looking for groups. Most crafters will still be huddled around tables.</P> <P>For that matter I felt there was a pretty decent crafting community at the very outset of the game. I saw MANY people forming crafting agreements and sort of crafting groups because people couldn't make everything so you needed to rely on each other. Then it was simplified and everyone could make everything and suddenly crafting communities seemed more crafting class oriented with scroll-makers mostly sticking together with scroll-makers, carpenters with other carpenters, etc. Then it was simplified even more and we had an influx of crafters because it's 'easy' now. I won't argue if it is or isn't really that's just what I mostly hear and have been told so take it how you will. What I have seen is where we went from a small but strong cross-crafting community to a larger but more segregated crafting community mostly sticking together to what we have now where it's all cut throat marketing and a lot of bitter people getting angry far too often. I still have some pretty strong crafting friends in most crafts (though I'm mostly just a carpenter) but many won't even sell on broker any more because of how nasty all the new crafters tend to be in general </P> <P>quick aside, I'm not getting into market economics, supply and demand, etc. I'm just sticking to general attitudes I've seen in talking with others here and it's definitely gone downhill the easier it got.</P> <P>Forcing crafters into the same city zones with adventurers who are only passing through? I just simply can not see how that will make a better community. I'll admit I may be missing something but when it comes down to it I do still adventure and I do still craft. The time I spend in a crafting instance doesn't diminish my role playing time adventuring. The time I spend adventuring doesn't diminish the time I enjoy crafting. And I'm chatting on chat channels with people who do both things no matter which I'm doing. Putting crafting stations in city zones won't change that one whit. Not at all.</P> <P>finally... whatever you do... do NOT under any circumstances force people to zone to get to different crafting stations. Carpenters such as myself will bear the brunt of this on timed writs as zone times will become a factor. Even if writ timers were increased for carpentry to insure we didn't fail from zoning your still talking about one class that has to content with multiple stations and who would take longer per writ and it would be a massive detriment for timed writs.</P> <P>I'm really not against crafting stations in city zones I just really would like the option to not be forced into using just those. The suggestion of how about in city zones and one for the Ironforge estate? I think that will succeed in moving some numbers out of the tradeskill instance because to me that just reads as a token instance and while the vast majority would want to craft in that instance the lag would be unbearable. It would be a choice of which is the lesser of two evils rather then which would you want to do. Basically which lag are you more likely to deal with? City lag or massive numbers of crafters in Ironforge? Either way it's a decision likely to upset people. Unless you can clear up the lag associated with too many people in one place in one zone I only see it as causing trouble. </P> <P>The option of just having them in every city suburb? It'll help space people out but if the point is to have crafters mingling with adventurers (not really possible when they have to pay attention the whole time while crafting anyhow) I can't see it working. How often do you see adventurers hanging around city suburbs? They pass through going from point A to point B or when shopping from apartments but otherwise they spend their time in the major city zones. Suburb crafting I can't see accomplishing anything more than adding more people to the suburbs and bringing up lag in those zones some.</P> <P>Well, I think I caught all my thoughts here. Hopefully I didn't ramble too much. I'm sure many others will repeat much of the same. </P>

FluffyPuff

09-26-2006, 04:41 AM

Simply put. Please dont get rid of the insistance zones. From those of us on Test this afternoon we dont mind change, but we dont want our insistance zones removed. Please leave the entire crafting system as it is now intact. Feel free to add new crafting station communities in say Everfrost / Thundering Steps / Antonica / Sinking Sands (by community I mean Broker/Merchant/All devices). We dont mind change, getting outdoors never hurt anyone, but please leave the the current system intact.thank you<div></div>

Xalmat

09-26-2006, 04:44 AM

Glendral,The changes suck. Here's why.First, the framerate lag in Qeynos and Freeport is higher than most every zone in the game. Especially on lower end machines that barely meet system requirements, traversing the city proper literally means taking 5 or 10 minutes to get from one end of the zone to the other. Moving your character in such an environment is very hit or miss, and NOT fun. Even higher end systems sometimes struggle to keep up. That's <i>before</i> you start gathering large amounts of people in one area.Second, it always seems that zones poorly handle a large number of people in them as far as network latency goes. This is always a reoccuring issue when zone populations reach near triple digits, and it starts to affect spell casts and combat arts. When tradeskill instances start to get laggy, the network latency is often large enough to make you miss your reaction arts to counter tradeskill events.Third, as for what's on Test right now, the placement of many stations is very poor and doesn't work well with the way the cities are designed. In order for it to work, MANY buildings would need to undergo major architectural revamps to avoid players getting stuck either by objects like tables and desks, pets, NPCs, or other players. Also, in the case of classes that use multiple stations (especially Carpenters), they are MUCH too spread far apart, and absolutely need to be closer.In the playtest you stated "The crafters are there own community, but separated from the adventurers. We want to try and make it one big community." I myself have several problems with that statement. First, crafting is, by definition, separate from adventuring. They help each other, but they are sometimes mutually exclusive goals. When an adventurer wants crafted gear he seeks a crafter because he wants to buy goods. However, a crafter will rarely seek an adventurer and try to <i>sell</i> goods to that adventurer, except maybe through the global chat channels. Part of the reason may be because Artisans are hiding in dungeons, but the biggest reason is because of the huge parity between crafted gear and very common mob dropped gear. Removing the instances may expose the artisan community more, but it won't help the underlying problem of crafted bear being undesirable compared to common mob drops.The crafting community on Test seems VERY united in what they want: Keep the status quo as it is, because it works and it works extremely well. Few are opposed to the idea of putting crafting stations in the city proper as a choice (along with other essentials such as bankers, brokers, fuel merchants, and the like), but almost all seem opposed to removing the instances completely.You said one possibility is to keep the Ironforge Exchange, and the Coalition of Tradefolk. However, if you keep those two instances only, and remove the rest (no matter how you decide to implement it), you <i>will</i> see the vast majority of crafters flocking to these instances to get away from the framerate lag fest in the city proper.Any zone that has crafting stations needs crafting stations in locations that make sense for them to be, are easy to get to without getting stuck, and need excellent proximity to a mailbox, fuel vendor, bank, broker, writ givers, <U><i>and</I></U> all other crafting stations that a player will likely use. Right now, none of the city zones meet all these requirements. If it were to go Live tomorrow, it would be a complete disaster for the Tradeskill community.<p>Message Edited by Xalmat on <span class=date_text>09-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:44 PM</span>

Teircen

09-26-2006, 04:45 AM

<DIV>and for the semi-useless portion of my contribution to this feedback... here's how I anticipate many crafters partaking of social game play when forced into city zones... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 1,</DIV> <DIV>/ooc Oh hey friend how's it go333333113333..., </DIV> <DIV>3, 1, 2, 1, 1, </DIV> <DIV>/ooc Sorry, 2 </DIV> <DIV>/ooc Crafting, missed another1111, 1, </DIV> <DIV>/ooc I keep missing counters to debuffs while crafting., </DIV> <DIV>1, </DIV> <DIV>/ooc Yay, another non-pristine item. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Won't seem very social to me. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

Stormdove

09-26-2006, 04:47 AM

<P>Just got done with the playtest, terrible conditions as is on test, could not counter events, could not finish level 20 rush orders with a level 25 maxed artificing jeweler. Could not even finish 1/2 the rush order. Took a very long time-minutes-to zone between NQ and SQ.</P> <P>Missed almost all the Q&A section as was lagged completely out of game and had to get back in. One of the last questions was if one of each tradeskill station, broker, trainer, writ givers were in Village but non-instanced would this be acceptable. If it is necesarry for some reason to remove the instances then I could live with crafting out of an instance, BUT the reason given for removing the instances was almost bizarre. They are saying the crafters need to be integrated more into the community. On Innothule server and now Crushbone server the channel of choice for any questions regarding anything involving the game is---Qeynos-crafting. The crafting channel is where we all hang out and give out sage advice, fool around without the 4th grade mentality of the 50-59 or 60-69 level channels. We are already very much a part of the community and we LOVE being able to tuck ourselves away for some quiet uncrowded crafting after a few hours adventuring/harvesting.</P> <P>I have 9 crafters and 7 of them also adventure. When I want to be out adventuring, competing for mobs and nodes, that is what I will do. When I craft I want a nice quiet dungeon, not too crowded. Each of my crafters would go to their own society to craft. When you took away Nature's bounty and the other instances in Willow Wood and forced me to craft in Wayfarer's stockpilers with teh crowds and lag you took away a lot of my enjoyment of the game. When i found Ironforge estates and began working there it was less crowded but just not the same as crafting at HOME in Willow wood. </P> <P>Your intentions are misguided. We craft in the dungeons because that is where we want to be. If you could see your way to return the ALL the instances to the villages you would have many many happy crafters on your hands. Keep the new NQ, SQ, QH and EG stations as a place for people living in the cities to craft if they wish. But please if you can give me back my crafting home societys it would bring back a part of the game I really do miss <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>