Tradeskill Instances

[EtoilePirate]

A surprising number of Test players are fuming with tonight's (09/20/06) patch.The addition of more crafting locations is not necessarily a bad thing.  However, the tradeskill stations are spread out inconveniently throughout the lag-prone city zones, laid out in a kind of ugly way that doesn't make much in-game sense.  Even so, they wouldn't be a bad thing, except that the crafting instances that we know and sometimes love are now completely MIA.Now -- the patch notes don't really tell us if it's intentional or not.  It could be a bug.  That's been known to happen on Test. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But as it stands right now, it's either a bad bug or a bad design choice.1.) City zones -- Qeynos Harbor, East Freeport, etc -- are notoriously laggy.  Adding gluts of crafters won't help.2.) There are now fewer crafting stations than there were after the consolidation of the workshops.  I believe on Live servers they already complain of overcrowding.3.) The in-game logic makes no sense.  Why would I be a hard-working artisan in the furniture store?  Or on the sidewalk outside of an inn?  Why would the man in the furniture store sell me fuel for tailoring?  Why would a writ-giver hang out in a city square?4.) I used to have fun in the Dark Bargainers with the rest of Freeport.  There was camraderie on the dings and mini-dings and Innovations.4a.) Staring at the wall of a furniture store is really no more interesting than staring at the wall of a crafting instance.5.) The layouts are just really not convenient.Now, as I say -- for all I know, it's totally unintentional, in which case I reserve and reverse my emotional reaction.  But whether it was an accident or on purpose, please reconsider this!<div></div>

[Canston]

Horrible Idea on the Tradeskill instances. I don't normally complain but this is absurd. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the way it was. Don't try to butter us up by saying we should be out in the open showing our skills. This is lame. I hope this is reconsidered and it should have been something put out to the players before making this decision. Don't forget you work for us. Putting the crafting table in lag prone areas is only going to cause problems. Very unhappy customer. Please take a look at this problem.

[Silverpaws]

<div><blockquote><hr>EtoilePB wrote:A surprising number of Test players are fuming with tonight's (09/20/06) patch.The addition of more crafting locations is not necessarily a bad thing.  However, the tradeskill stations are spread out inconveniently throughout the lag-prone city zones, laid out in a kind of ugly way that doesn't make much in-game sense.  Even so, they wouldn't be a bad thing, except that the crafting instances that we know and sometimes love are now completely MIA.Now -- the patch notes don't really tell us if it's intentional or not.  It could be a bug.  That's been known to happen on Test. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But as it stands right now, it's either a bad bug or a bad design choice.1.) City zones -- Qeynos Harbor, East Freeport, etc -- are notoriously laggy.  Adding gluts of crafters won't help.<font color="#ffff00"> agreed</font>2.) There are now fewer crafting stations than there were after the consolidation of the workshops.  I believe on Live servers they already complain of overcrowding.  <font color="#ffff00">agreed</font>3.) The in-game logic makes no sense.  Why would I be a hard-working artisan in the furniture store?  Or on the sidewalk outside of an inn?  Why would the man in the furniture store sell me fuel for tailoring?  Why would a writ-giver hang out in a city square? <font color="#ffff00">to make you buy crafting stations I would assume.  Most high end crafters own one anyway.</font>4.) I used to have fun in the Dark Bargainers with the rest of Freeport.  There was camraderie on the dings and mini-dings and Innovations. <font color="#ffff00">agreed</font>4a.) Staring at the wall of a furniture store is really no more interesting than staring at the wall of a crafting instance. <font color="#ffff00">Probably, but if it doesnt matter, then, it doesnt matter...</font>5.) The layouts are just really not convenient.<font color="#ffff00"> Since you dont need subs, it doesnt matter where they are really.  They seem laid out well, in areas that you would logically find them. (chem table near alchemists, loom near tailors...)</font>Now, as I say -- for all I know, it's totally unintentional, in which case I reserve and reverse my emotional reaction.  But whether it was an accident or on purpose, please reconsider this!<blockquote><font color="#ffcc00"><b>*** Crafting: No Longer Underground! ***</b></font> - Have you ever wondered why poor crafters have always been forced to forge their creations in the damp, dark reaches of Norrath? Blame the gnomes! - Tradeskillers will now find crafting stations placed throughout their home cities. - Now you can display your skill to all your potential customers, without having to work in cramped quarters.</blockquote><font color="#ffff00">Looks like it means "no longer underground" meaing "no longer instances underground"</font> <div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#ffcc00"><b></b></font></div>

[ZeyGnome]

<P>It really has to be a bug.  Otherwise it is the most ill-conceived concept ever tested.</P> <P>It's awful now.  Why follow up a great GU with one that is this bad?</P> <P> </P>

[Calthine]

<P>I can't conceive why they would have made a Crafting Trainer who gets you started and sells all your books and put all the writ givers and Profession Qeust fellows inside the TS instances if they were just going to remove them.</P> <P>On the other hand, there was a post noting that most of Antonica had disappeared, so I'm hoping it's a bug.</P>

[Deila]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Silverpaws wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>EtoilePB wrote:<BR><BR>3.) The in-game logic makes no sense.  Why would I be a hard-working artisan in the furniture store?  Or on the sidewalk outside of an inn?  Why would the man in the furniture store sell me fuel for tailoring?  Why would a writ-giver hang out in a city square? <FONT color=#ffff00>to make you buy crafting stations I would assume.  Most high end crafters own one anyway.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33cc00>Which also would mean being required to be in a level 25+ guild to craft pristine items (minimum guild level requirement to purchase the fully-functional tables) - which in turn makes a GL 25 requirement to do crafting writs. I can't believe that's intended.</FONT><BR><BR>5.) The layouts are just really not convenient.<FONT color=#ffff00> Since you dont need subs, it doesnt matter where they are really.  They seem laid out well, in areas that you would logically find them. (chem table near alchemists, loom near tailors...)</FONT><BR><BR><FONT color=#33cc00>Carpenter timed writs often have you make items at more than one crafting station. It's not just a matter of subs or no-subs - if a timed writ asks for items from multiple tables, you now have to run across town to complete the order, with a timer going. Again - doubt that's intended.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#33cc00>No, I'd have to say that removing the tradeskill instances doesn't make any sense. It seems to create a number of problems, without solving any obvious ones. There was nothing in tonight's patch notes saying that instances were removed. For now then, I'm assuming it's a bug, in much the same way that large portions of Antonica going missing are also a bug.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#33cc00>Having the option to craft out in the city is very nice. Some of the locations may be weird, yes, but the idea is alright. But, and especially when it comes to rush order writs, <EM>forcing</EM> crafting to be done in a non-centralized location like the instances is just not a good idea, and I have a hard time believing that it's by design choice.</FONT><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ffcc00><B></B></FONT><BR><BR><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[selch]

Call me conspiracy theorists but...With previous expansion they removed specialized TS instances... We have an upcoming expansion, now they removing filled up many TS zones to spare more space for the expansions. No matter or what if they remove more instances, it will save more server space. TS instance load might be huge to maintain...I hope it is a bug, but somewhere in my mind says it is not a bug or "untought" development decision.<p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>09-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:22 PM</span>

[tikasa]

 I already lag in city zones... I like to craft and do writs.... If you do this Devs Cancel my accounts I will not pay to lag.

[littleman17]

<DIV>Thins like this make you wonder if SOE's devs actually think, from the sounds of it, this is a horrible Update and needs to be removed. Lag is the enemy when crafting, it can make you miss a counter, or worse yet, make you use the wrong counter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please SOE, remove this update and rethink it before trying something this drastic. (makes me glad I don't play test)</DIV>

[Maroger]

<P>I agree this is a poorly planned update. It contributes to lag in the cities ( didn't they "fix" that in the last patch and now they want to break it??).</P> <P>But worse -- it is just plain silly. Whoever saw a tradeskill instance on a city street or in a store? What is wrong with just reactivating some of the old tradeskill instances??</P>

[Talona]

I'm not likeing the removal also.I don't like haveing to run to differnt stations, and to differnt folks for fuels. Don't like haveing to go back to a central place for writs and/or the seeking a proffesion quest line.I'm trying to keep a open mind about this. But with out some type of improvment, I'm not going to be happy.Oh well gives me a chance to gain tradeskill vitality again.Unhappy Camper...

[DrTEE]

I agree totally with the orginal poster.  The crafting instances are a place that can have community. <div></div>

[EvG]

The removal of the tradeskill instances is an extremely bad idea but it fits in with how crafting is seen in this game nowperhaps soe should get rid of something else than the instances like some developers perhaps that would help the game<div></div>

[Elorah]

<DIV>I am hoping that this is a REALLLLLLY bad Bug.  I can barely  MOVE in the city zones at night and weekends.  I LOVE my crafting and was sad to see that my instances were cut down and had to deal with that lag.  I cant imagine having to deal with City lag as well...  Please....  if this is a bug, let usknow....  If it is working as intended.....  WHAT are your plans?  Help us understand why????  *sniffles*</DIV>

[missionarymarr]

Well first of all I would hold off a little on calling this a terrible update until one of the devs makes an official statement on whether ot not the Crafting instances are gone or if it is a bug. From the notes I would say it is probalby a bug and the new devices in the city is something they are adding but you will still be able to craft in the instances.

[AnnMarieR]

<div></div><div></div>I thought of another possibility. Unless they do something carved into the tree, or a tradeskill building etc, I can't see how they would make indoor tradeskill instances in Kelethin. Based on that, and assumeing they want to make it so newbie life is similar wherever you start out, I can see this as a move to turn Freeport and Qeynos into the same style as Kelethin could be - i.e. all the tradeskill equipment scattered around the platforms. Has anyone looked at either of the isles, have those work areas moved out into the camp clearing as well?What I've missed most, is not just the ease of crafting close to my home and bank-vault, but the loss of easy access to the broker.<p>Message Edited by AnnMarieR on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:19 PM</span>

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AnnMarieR wrote:<BR> <BR>What I've missed most, is not just the ease of crafting close to my home and bank-vault, but <STRONG>the loss of easy access to the broker.<BR></STRONG><BR> <P>Message Edited by AnnMarieR on <SPAN class=date_text>09-21-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>01:19 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is a very valid point. While I try not to have to use the broker to purchase any raws, it was nice to have if I was making an item out of my current tier (for an alt or an order) and just needed to grab a few ashen roots etc to complete the order.</P> <P>As to the instances disappearing, Im guessing its a bug. This change IMO is an attempt to address the current lag in the TS instances. It serves no purpose simply moving everyone somewhere else with even more people in the zone.<BR></P>

[SideshowBob]

<P>I have to contribute here, too...</P> <P>I also hope they do <STRONG><U>NOT</U></STRONG> intend on taking crafting zones out of the game, and forcing people to craft in the main cities/zones.  That would just be the worst idea I have ever heard.  And the suggestion of making people buy guild level 25 crafting stations is NOT an acceptable alternative. Those crafting stations cost, if I recall correctly, well over a half a million status points and reoughly a plat each! For my carpenter, I'd need to buy THREE of those (a woodworking table, a loom, and a forge). Plus the crafting station for my provisioner alt, and the ones for my sage alt.  I'm sorry, but spending MILLIONS of status points so I can effectively avoid the massive lag I already get when in the main zones, is just more of that stuff that comes out the back end of a bull.</P> <P><STRONG>From a crafter standpoint</STRONG>: The lag is already horrible in those zones, with people dueling and emoting each other (or even just standing around chatting). I can only imagine how much worse it will be when you throw in people crafting -- with the animations the characters do when crafting, the animations of the crafting stations, the combat spam we'd get every time someone misses a reactive (which will likely be more frequent with the increased lag), not to mention the absurd idea of trying to do timed writs that require multiple stations. This is just (for lack of a better word) stupid.</P> <P><STRONG>From a non-crafter standpoint</STRONG>: The lag is so bad in Longshadow Alley, Qeynos Harbor and Willow wood, just to name a few zones, that I already ofentimes lag and wind up running into the side of a building or such.  And I have a pretty nice computer compared to a lot of people I know in my guild/friends/etc. Adding all those displaced crafters into these already lag infested zones is going to make it PAINFUL getting anywhere. Fortunately, most non-crafters will have little reason to 'hang out' in those zones, but that doesn't justify moving crafting stations there -- the fact is that they <EM><STRONG>do</STRONG></EM> hang out in those zones, for whatever reason. It just makes the lag expotentially worse when anyone <EM>is</EM> forced to venture through those zones to get from point A to point B.</P> <P>For the love of <insert whatever item here>, <STRONG>DON'T REMOVE CRAFTING INSTANCES</STRONG>!</P>

[Heattanu]

<DIV>As I was looking around Test last night, I became pretty sure that the removal of the TS instances was not a bug. The TS instances were not just inaccessible, they were removed and as was the TS trainer beside them too.  The TS trainer, work order giver, rush order giver and one other TS quest giver were placed in locations in the city zones. Clip boards for starting writs were placed by each new TS area in the city zones.  Also re-reading the patch notes for 28a, it does sound like they are removing basement TS areas.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree that lag in the city zones is going to make tradeskilling difficult. Even a little lag makes it very difficult to respond to events with the correct counters or to recover from critical failures. If we have to fight both the RNG <U>and</U> lag, tradeskilling is going to be an exercise in frustration having nothing to do with the skill of the crafter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On the other hand, I noticed there are some cellar doors similar to the old TS instances that are scattered through the city zones. What is even more mysterious is that some of them are labeled if you run your cursor over them. I am not sure whether or not they were there before this patch. You cant get into them, but why label them if they will not have a purpose at some point.</DIV> <UL> <LI>In Elddar Grove, there is a cellar door labeled "In Range Basement - no admittance"  near the bowyers shop.</LI> <LI>In NQ, there is a cellar door labeled "Ironforge Workshop - no admittance" by the Call to Arms (this is a different location that the previous Ironforge Exchange TS instance that has been removed).</LI> <LI>In NQ, there is another cellar door labeled "Celestial Watch Meeting Hall - no admittance" in back of the building next to the Clothspinners shop.</LI> <LI>There are other similar unlabeled cellar doors near the mage's tower in SQ and near the castle docks in NQ</LI></UL> <P>If these aren't intended to become TS instances, there is no reason the dev's could offer some TS instances either in the city or replace the ones in the villages as options for those tradeskillers that prefer them or need them to get away from city lag.</P><p>Message Edited by Heattanu on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:49 AM</span>

[Eveningsong]

Hmm interesting, I missed those <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Of course, after spending half my evening accidentally crashing because I couldn't control my urges to look at my persona/faction page, I gave up and hung out in Antonica to kill the scarecrow king (and a whole lot of scarecrows and gnolls lol).

[Ascillian]

<DIV>I have to agree with the many opinions posted here.  Please put the crafting instances back in.  Not only are the instances great places to meet other crafters, but they are quaint little locations that I personally love.  Also, I think trying to craft out in the 'open' would be quite distracting.  I, for one, do not wish to have all kinds of things spamming across my screen, nor do I wish to have the duel lag if someone decides to duel near me.</DIV>

[Titigabe]

<div></div>/agreeBring back things as they were before, and just put the crafting trainers IN the TS instance. Come on, can't you guys be serious? Why are you spending so much time and efforts in developping such stupid changes while gamers are asking for something else?I've been looking at the Work Orders giver, the Rush Orders giver, the Tradeskill Trainer in South Qeynos and they just look ridiculous, standing where they have nothing to do, juste like vegetables aligned in a garden!<div></div><p>Message Edited by Titigabe on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:24 AM</span>

[Loredena]

<P>Those instances are used in the betrayal quest -- specifically, Qeynos to Freeport.  There are equivalent ones in  Freeport for Freeport to Qeynos </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Heattanu wrote: <DIV>On the other hand, I noticed there are some cellar doors similar to the old TS instances that are scattered through the city zones. What is even more mysterious is that some of them are labeled if you run your cursor over them. I am not sure whether or not they were there before this patch. You cant get into them, but why label them if they will not have a purpose at some point.</DIV> <UL> <LI>In Elddar Grove, there is a cellar door labeled "In Range Basement - no admittance"  near the bowyers shop.</LI> <LI>In NQ, there is a cellar door labeled "Ironforge Workshop - no admittance" by the Call to Arms (this is a different location that the previous Ironforge Exchange TS instance that has been removed).</LI> <LI>In NQ, there is another cellar door labeled "Celestial Watch Meeting Hall - no admittance" in back of the building next to the Clothspinners shop.</LI> <LI>There are other similar unlabeled cellar doors near the mage's tower in SQ and near the castle docks in NQ</LI></UL> <P>Message Edited by Heattanu on <SPAN class=date_text>09-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:49 AM</SPAN> </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>  </P><p>Message Edited by Loredena on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:26 AM</span>

[Prrasha]

Re: "In Range Basement" and such... I doubt those are crafting instances, considering that there's 5 of them that match up with the five writ-giving factions (they're even in the correct towns).Add my voice to the chorus of "what were you thinking??" if there's no instances to do writs in. Carpenters need, what, four different tradeskill tables? (sawhorse = most stuff, forge = lights, loom = rugs, workbench = vases). Weaponsmiths need the forge and the loom. Even if they place a "writ pickup table" next to every station, some crafts will be at a serious disadvantage when doing writs.Also, what of heavily lagged zones like Willow Wood? Do you get a longer writ timer there? Or a bonus to success chance to offset the lag?This just seems rather... underconsidered... to me. Maybe not quite as bad as the T6-harvests-in-Tenebrous-Tangle fiasco that was shot down due to player feedback, but this idea needs either (1) some serious 'splaining, especially WRT timed writs, or (2) a knife in the back. (Poisoned, of course. My alchemist will get right on it...)

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Heattanu wrote:<BR> <DIV>As I was looking around Test last night, I became pretty sure that the removal of the TS instances was not a bug. The TS instances were not just inaccessible, they were removed and as was the TS trainer beside them too.  The TS trainer, work order giver, rush order giver and one other TS quest giver were placed in locations in the city zones. Clip boards for starting writs were placed by each new TS area in the city zones.  Also re-reading the patch notes for 28a, it does sound like they are removing basement TS areas.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree that lag in the city zones is going to make tradeskilling difficult. Even a little lag makes it very difficult to respond to events with the correct counters or to recover from critical failures. If we have to fight both the RNG <U>and</U> lag, tradeskilling is going to be an exercise in frustration having nothing to do with the skill of the crafter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On the other hand, I noticed there are some cellar doors similar to the old TS instances that are scattered through the city zones. What is even more mysterious is that some of them are labeled if you run your cursor over them. I am not sure whether or not they were there before this patch. You cant get into them, but why label them if they will not have a purpose at some point.</DIV> <UL> <LI><STRONG>In Elddar Grove, there is a cellar door labeled "In Range Basement - no admittance"  near the bowyers shop.</STRONG></LI> <LI><STRONG>In NQ, there is a cellar door labeled "Ironforge Workshop - no admittance" by the Call to Arms (this is a different location that the previous Ironforge Exchange TS instance that has been removed).</STRONG></LI> <LI><STRONG>In NQ, there is another cellar door labeled "Celestial Watch Meeting Hall - no admittance" in back of the building next to the Clothspinners shop.</STRONG></LI> <LI><STRONG>There are other similar unlabeled cellar doors near the mage's tower in SQ and near the castle docks in NQ</STRONG></LI></UL> <P>If these aren't intended to become TS instances, there is no reason the dev's could offer some TS instances either in the city or replace the ones in the villages as options for those tradeskillers that prefer them or need them to get away from city lag.</P> <P>Message Edited by Heattanu on <SPAN class=date_text>09-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:49 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>those are instances for betrayal faction quests.

[selch]

As long timer tradeskiller, I fail to understand lag issues... First, "As an example of Willow wood has more lag than any city zones in live, it is way crowded from all races picking there for some reason"Second, "Lag inside TS instance with 30 people in same zone in  a little area seeing all others graphics / models / textures / pets is more than any city zones" with exception of Qeynos Harbor on both examples as being a travel hub (ofcourse)Yes, it was nice to have everything together, however, I don't accept lag as an excuse from my part. <div></div>

[ZeyGnome]

<P>Snce this is intentional, I am assuming that all pets, horses, and carpets will be removed from these city zones to reduce the lag and the problems with blockage?  I am also going to assume that the tradeskill tables for sale by the city merchants will have their guild requirements removed and the status lowered?  By the same token, I assume that all the exploited purchases of the tradeskill tables will be removed from the players who bought them when you sent the broken city merchants to live a few patches back?</P> <P>I know that 3 chemistry tables, a bunch of NPCs and furniture in the little alchemist shop in SQ will be unusuable if you add players, pets, horses, and carpets.  From the looks of the other locations,  it will be the same.</P> <P>Oh, and placement of the engraving desks in the Mage tower?  Poor.  Nice to know if you back up a centimeter, you are ported to another floor, that really helps with writs.</P> <P>This is a poor design choice, I think we need to be told why this is necessary because otherwise it just seems to be done for no good reason except to be punative to people who craft and/or are not members of 25+ rated guilds with a ton of plat and status to throw around.</P> <P>This deserves a public comment from a dev, it is a major, and destructive, change to tradeskilling, right on the heels of a GU that finally helped tradeskillers.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by ZeyGnome on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:42 AM</span>

[Prrasha]

Duel spam lag. (Wasn't in-tradeskill-zone dueling disabled to stop this sort of griefing of tradeskillers?)Horse/carpet-related lag. No mounts in the tradeskill zones. I play in 3rd person all the time (seeing the numbers fly off the forge is nice), so horses running around behind me could hurt.General zone-related lag... I see more lag with 10 people in the Nettleville bank than I do with 10 people in the Nettleville crafting zone's broker area. i.e. the first is significant, if not game-breaking, the second barely noticable.Additional broker lag, assuming the brokers are standing about in the starter villages now, too... 10 people brokering in the Elusive Commonwealth plus 10 people banking in Nettleville is much less lag than 20 people all milling about in one zone. (I haven't logged into test since the changes, since I heard that half the windows are crashing the game, so I don't know if the brokers moved out or disappeared.)But, you are correct in that lag is only 10% of the issue. I've got a decent system, it probably won't even affect me, personally. But I have friends who play the game with 1GB RAM, and who are (rightfully) more worried about upgrading their kids' wardrobes to clothes that fit than in buying more RAM and a niftier video card to play a game.Timed writs are issue #1, timed writs are issue #2 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, loss of some of the tradeskill community's camaraderie is #3 (we don't have groups, tradeskilling is all solo. Getting us together in one place helps... a "grats" from a tailor when I make level on my woodworker is nice to hear.) Lag is #4.The only possible good I can see of this is it might shame one or two of the AFK-crafters into quitting if it's more than just two or three other crafters watching them act like doofuses. (You know the ones, stand in front of the alchemy table for hours at a time, but never counter a single damage-dealing reaction... just hit "start" every 2 minutes and go back to watching American Idol.)

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR>As long timer tradeskiller, I fail to understand lag issues... <BR><BR>First, "As an example of Willow wood has more lag than any city zones in live, it is way crowded from all races picking there for some reason"<BR><BR>Second, "Lag inside TS instance with 30 people in same zone in  a little area seeing all others graphics / models / textures / pets is more than any city zones" <BR>with exception of Qeynos Harbor on both examples as being a travel hub (ofcourse)<BR><BR>Yes, it was nice to have everything together, however, I don't accept lag as an excuse from my part. <BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>As a long time crafter myself (since Nov 04) I am less concerned about the lag while crafting and more concerned about the lag that will be created simply traversing through these zones. Some of them were bad enough before, but adding a bunch of crafters to the mix doesnt seem to me to be helping the situation.</P> <P>To those running top of the line rigs who never have lag, please keep in mind that not everyone has an uber machine and this game has to be playable by all who meet the minimum specs. <BR></P>

[Loredena]

There's also an increased possibility of pet griefing, whether intentional or not -- in some of the smaller buildings, it would be very easy for a caster's pet to block the doorway, preventing crafters from entering and exiting.  I know my conjurer has gotten blocked by her own pet more then once when visiting the mender in some of the smaller huts.   Imagine this when running between stations on a timed writ?  Even if accidental, it would be upsetting.

[thepriz]

<div><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div> <p>I agree this is a poorly planned update. It contributes to lag in the cities ( didn't they "fix" that in the last patch and now they want to break it??).</p> <p>But worse -- it is just plain silly. Whoever saw a tradeskill instance on a city street or in a store? What is wrong with just reactivating some of the old tradeskill instances??</p><hr></blockquote>Actually in the middle ages, you would go to the blacksmith shop to get your metal things made, you would go to the carpenter to get your wood things made. They where right there in the shop you went to to get them. It wasn't till later that you had supermarkets and such.</div>

[masakre]

<DIV>Dislike placing TS devices in the cities. Whats the point in purchasing the TS devices for your room if you run by the device on your way to your room? Takes away from all the hard work someone may hev undertaken to place them in their room, when the leave their room and see people standing their at the same machine they just zoned twice to get to.</DIV>

[Khuzad]

Just casting my vote here...I liked it the old way better...I have reasons... but they have all been mentioned...I would really like to hear WHY... this was done...It would make it easier to take... =)Peace<div></div>

[Moussie]

I guess we will have to live with that, when was the last time Test update didnt end up on live server? Dev dont care about us, they put in stuff even if the entire community are against it. Just think about all the stuff they put in so far.

[Elorah]

<P>Actually I seem to recall a time where the dev's decided to put Tier 6 harvest nodes into Tier 7 zones.  Us poor schlubs posted that it wasnt fair and an all around weird idea, so they reversed their patch that they had placed on test....</P> <P>It can work...  But we need to know from a developer what is going on...  Is it a bug?  or do they have some GRAND planned scheme in mind?</P><p>Message Edited by Elorah on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:40 PM</span>

[Lalkin503]

<P>Please do NOT remove the TS instances.</P> <P> </P> <P>First off the ability to go somewhere to craft, regardless of your craft is very nice. I would really hate not being able to sit in my crooked room when I make rings. =)</P> <P>Secondly removing the TS instances from starter towns also removes the broker from these towns! That is aweful. I HATE Qeynos harbor. Anytime I get to anywhere near the broker in there I lag so bad 90% of the time I end up in the canals. Because of this I always visit the brokers in the TS instances. </P> <P> </P> <P>I'm fine with adding stations and NPCs to the city zones but removing the TS instances is flat out WRONG to do.</P>

[Jaffa Tamarin]

<DIV>If the Overlord shuts down the Circle of Vaniki there will be riots and mutinies in Temple Street, I tells you!</DIV>

[Kishia]

<P>I am not happy with this change and I have posted this on the test server also:</P> <P>This is totaly not a good thing, taking our Tradeskill instances out of our towns <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif" width=16 border=0></P> <P>I can see adding a few work table and such in the cities for quick combines for someone you need to make something for and it is closer for you to go then back to your town, but taking the towns Instance totaly away is not a good idea. I do not want to have to go all the way to QH, SQ or NQ to craft it is very inconvenient to say the least, and the lag for some people would be horrible.</P><p>Message Edited by Kishia on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:35 AM</span>

[TheOrder20]

Please dont remove the Tradeskill Instances, this would be a shot in the foot.  I logged onto Test Server and the door to The Colaltion is gone!! How am I supposed to Purchase Status Items from that Faction??  No developer should remove content from the game that ALL the players still want in.  Whats so wrong with having both?

[Ironha]

<P>Worst. Idea. Ever.</P> <P>Inconvenience = Not Fun.  I put up with changes at work that make no sense and have no positive impact.  Difference is, they pay me to be there.</P>

[AlkonTheWarrior]

<P>If this goes live, this may be the single most idiotic idea I have ever seen in my 7+ years of online gaming.</P> <P>Why is this being done? I like the way it is now. I think the system and layout is perfect. </P> <P>Where was the outcry to have this done? </P> <P>Please do not make this change.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by AlkonTheWarrior on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:31 PM</span>

[Ex_Venia]

<P>Why can't SOE create one larger TS instance with all the amenties?  OR pick a city zone to put all the stations that has the least amount of Lag?</P> <P>For instance, I noticed in the dev thread about the Playtest that Elddar Grove in Qeynos has the least amount of stations and variety of stations.  Why not put all the stations there? Its a beautifull Zone and is usually has very low traffic.</P> <P>This move just doesnt make much sense to me at the moment :smileyindifferent:</P> <P> </P>

[carlspackler]

<P>Looks like I will need to finish the purchase of the rest of my tradeskill devices and find a home for them in one of my alts houses (my main's room is too full atm). </P> <P>At least it will be easier to point out the crafting bots!</P>

[ShaadDeNoir]

<DIV>Just wanted to added my 2 coppers worth. I'm in agreement with all those who DO NOT want the tradeskill instances removed. Ilike my quiet little hovel in Baubbleshire. All my characters make this home base. The three zone I dislike the most: NQ, SQ, QH. Way to busy for me.</DIV>

[Kordran]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> masakre wrote:<BR> <DIV>Dislike placing TS devices in the cities. Whats the point in purchasing the TS devices for your room if you run by the device on your way to your room? Takes away from all the hard work someone may hev undertaken to place them in their room, when the leave their room and see people standing their at the same machine they just zoned twice to get to.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually, I disagree with this. I think it will make crafting stations more popular than they are now. All of the serious crafters are going to do what they can to escape the unwashed masses and all of the associated zerg lag that you see; and you just know there's going to be those special people who think its funny to be as disruptive as they can be, just short of getting whacked with the banstick.</P> <P>If they implement this as-is, I hope change the writ system so that you can obtain a stack of writs and complete them in your own home.</P><p>Message Edited by Kordran on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:36 PM</span>

[Kenazeer]

<div></div>Can someone please explain to me how, on balance, this makes things better for crafters? Maybe I am blind and just don't get it, but how is this <b>better</b>? <div></div><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class=date_text>09-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:46 PM</span>

[Finora]

<DIV>More crafting tables in out of the way interesting places, some around town, FANTASTIC idea. Removing our tried and true old tradeskills instances, awful.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are tons of reasons, many already stated in this thread. Despite the layouts of the old tradeskill instances sometimes being cumbersome until you become accustomed to them, they really were much better designed than this...mess that was introduced.</DIV>

[Ebarel]

<P>DONT DO IT! </P> <P>Leave the crafting instances as they are!!!!!</P>

[Kordran]

<DIV>All they really need to do with the tradeskill "dungeons" is remove the doors. All that clicking is annoying, particularly when you're doing rush orders.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dessellion4]

<P>I find it amazing that they can announce this change with such enthusiasm making it sound like they've addressed something we've been begging for.  Yet I can't remember seeing any calls for changes to the current locations.  And judging from the responses here no one, and I do mean no one wants this change.</P> <P>Is it just a bug on Test?  Probably not since if it were you'd expect SOE to be falling over themselves to point it out.</P> <P>Is it possible to reverse their minds?  Well its happened before, but without knowing the rationale behind the change its not easy to know how easy such a reversal might be.  Someone suggested this might save them server space, if so and they're running short, expect a hard battle.  We need to hear from the wielder of the RPOD!!!</P> <P>I'll go with the one change suggested here though.  Remove the internal doors.  Stopping to hit the F key is so annoying!</P> <P>Ocasia - 9 crafters all over lvl 20</P>

[madha]

<P>Tossing my vote for no to the change.. </P> <P>They can just rework the old isnaces paint the walls add plants if they want, </P> <P>Or better yet shrink them up a bit lots of wasted space.</P> <P>  Bring back the TS class specific zones 1 per each class Exp outfiters zone with a brooker trainer fule and writ people, make it small like 1 room with 4 tables in it bam max like 10 peopel like before =P, and gives the botters a place to hide.</P> <P>Or let me buy a writ table thing so i can pick up a writ go to my house and select the table and start the timed writ</P> <P>The reduction of server space or what ever someone mentioned is kind of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if they keep adding content are they going to keep removing zones? "Hey new Expantion comming out Willow wood has been removed due to lack of people in it, We are also joing antonica and the common lands to help low lvl players fing groups" or better yet "Rejoice the war is over Q and FP have merged to one shinning city of 1 zone and no housing" </P>

[Khrunk]

<DIV>if they cant kill tradeskillers by ruining the stuff we make, they'll just kill us off with lag lol</DIV>

[Kenazeer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> madhatr wrote:<BR> <P>"Hey new Expantion comming out Willow wood has been removed due to lack of people in it, We are also joing antonica and the common lands to help low lvl players fing groups" or better yet "Rejoice the war is over Q and FP have merged to one shinning city of 1 zone and no housing" </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>[Removed for Content]. Don't give them any ideas; those almost sound like plausible excuses.<BR>

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kordran wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>If they implement this as-is, I hope change the writ system so that you can obtain a stack of writs and complete them in your own home.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Now this I would love to see. Let me get multiple writs at one time or even add a status purchable item that I can place in my home from which I can get my writs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[lyndonuk]

Adding my voice to this - Do Not Remove The TS Instances!However, knowing how well SoE listen to their players, I cant see them changing it back *remembers NGE in SWG*They probably have a reason for doing this that we dont know anything about, and that reason will probably over-ride whatever their paying 'customers' (they may need to look that word up) would like.<div></div>

[Wilderbeast25]

OMG - I don't watch the forums for a couple of days and I come back to find TS Instances gone??? What in the world is going on here?  Just add the stuff outside and leave the instances ALONE!!!! I want MORE CHOICE not less! I just don't understand why something has to be screwed up just to add something else. <div></div>

[Magic]

<P>Hmm, I didn't like zoning into an instance to craft and then zoning out again to visit the bank, buy more recipe books, or to get certified.  </P> <P>I like the concept of having the devices out in the open but didn't consider the lag.  What I'll do is stand on the devices and look at my feet to reduce the lag from the graphics.  The devices are not solid so I'll stand at their centers so as not to get accidentally ported.</P> <P>However, if they would put a banker, recipe book seller, and certifier in the tradeskill instances, I'd be happy enough with that.</P>

[Maroger]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thepriz wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maroger wrote:<BR> <P>I agree this is a poorly planned update. It contributes to lag in the cities ( didn't they "fix" that in the last patch and now they want to break it??).</P> <P>But worse -- it is just plain silly. Whoever saw a tradeskill instance on a city street or in a store? What is wrong with just reactivating some of the old tradeskill instances??</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Actually in the middle ages, you would go to the blacksmith shop to get your metal things made, you would go to the carpenter to get your wood things made. They where right there in the shop you went to to get them. It wasn't till later that you had supermarkets and such.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually in the Middle Ages, the craft guilds has guild halls, and master craftsman had workrooms in their homes. The only reason you saw the blacksmith outside is that it is difficult to get a horse in the house and besides a spark from your forge might burn your thatch cottage down.</P> <P>People DID NOT CRAFT in the middle of the street in the middle ages!!<BR></P>

[Eveningsong]

That's good, cause the tradeskill stations have been put in buildings, inns, shops, not the street :p

[Dessellion4]

And something else that suddenly occured to me - it rains in Qeynos and Freeport.  Not just in the street but effects visibility badly inside buildings as well.  I'm not sure how much this would effect tradeskilling but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't make it very pleasant.  Imagine trying to see those numbers going up when you can't see your hand in front of your face.

[Maroger]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eveningsong wrote:<BR>That's good, cause the tradeskill stations have been put in buildings, inns, shops, not the street :p<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I don't know about Qeynos but they have some sitting in the street in Freeport<BR>

[EtoilePirate]

<div><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Eveningsong wrote:That's good, cause the tradeskill stations have been put in buildings, inns, shops, not the street :p <hr> </blockquote>I don't know about Qeynos but they have some sitting in the street in Freeport<hr></blockquote>Yeah, that one in North Freeport right next to the broker is the one that caught my attention first and foremost, and then I started realizing they'd dropped stations in everywhere.  It sounds like the placement in Qeynos is slightly more logical.</div>

[Rastaah]

Why is a dev not responding to such a touchy issue?Also, this could be one change, 'if' it causes a lot of lag that sends me packing back to another game I used to play because I will not tolerate ANY more lag from EQ2 than I already have.Sorry, love the game, but do not make more lag, it is nearly unbearable on my good machine in towns as it is.

[Seffrid]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thepriz wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Actually in the middle ages, you would go to the blacksmith shop to get your metal things made, you would go to the carpenter to get your wood things made. They where right there in the shop you went to to get them. It wasn't till later that you had supermarkets and such.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes but those things weren't in the street. Moreover, you didn't go into an inn and say to the bartender "Hey I'm just going to use this keg and stove you kindly put in the bar to make my own food and drink, ok?"</P> <P>I find the placing of the new TS's silly and unnecessary, and a major cause of lag and frustration (goodness only knows how newbies will fare once they land in the villages with a tradeskill letter telling them that's where they need to be).</P> <P>I find the removal of existing TS's absurd and indefensible. If, and it's a big if, the devs have temporarily removed them to concentrate Testers' use of the new ones, then why the heck didn't they tell us when it happened? At least that gives them an excuse to offer up as a way of saving grace if they concede that this whole concept was ill-conceived and needs ditching - as assuredly it does. Assuming it wasn't the reason for removing them, and I don't believe it was, they can still turn round on Monday when they read the massive opposition to this and claim it was never intended to be permanent.</P> <P>One last point - these threads often make reference to people crafting in their own homes and therefore not being affected by this. Remember that you have to belong to a guild (of a certain level?) to get the crafting equipment, and guild membership is not compulsory in this game nor should it be. Not all crafters by any means are crafting for their guild, and many do not belong to one. They should not have to put up with a second-best lagged crafting environment hemmed in by horses in indoor locations where it's raining!</P>

[ZeyGnome]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Seffrid wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thepriz wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Actually in the middle ages, you would go to the blacksmith shop to get your metal things made, you would go to the carpenter to get your wood things made. They where right there in the shop you went to to get them. It wasn't till later that you had supermarkets and such.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes but those things weren't in the street. Moreover, you didn't go into an inn and say to the bartender "Hey I'm just going to use this keg and stove you kindly put in the bar to make my own food and drink, ok?"</P> <P>I find the placing of the new TS's silly and unnecessary, and a major cause of lag and frustration (goodness only knows how newbies will fare once they land in the villages with a tradeskill letter telling them that's where they need to be).</P> <P>I find the removal of existing TS's absurd and indefensible. If, and it's a big if, the devs have temporarily removed them to concentrate Testers' use of the new ones, then why the heck didn't they tell us when it happened? At least that gives them an excuse to offer up as a way of saving grace if they concede that this whole concept was ill-conceived and needs ditching - as assuredly it does. Assuming it wasn't the reason for removing them, and I don't believe it was, they can still turn round on Monday when they read the massive opposition to this and claim it was never intended to be permanent.</P> <P>One last point - these threads often make reference to people crafting in their own homes and therefore not being affected by this. <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff33>Remember that you have to belong to a guild (of a certain level?)</FONT></STRONG> to get the crafting equipment, and guild membership is not compulsory in this game nor should it be. Not all crafters by any means are crafting for their guild, and many do not belong to one. They should not have to put up with a second-best lagged crafting environment hemmed in by horses in indoor locations where it's raining!</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>You have to be in a guild of level 25 to get the stations needed to make pristines, and each one cost roughly 1/2 million status points.</P> <P>That is not a viable option in my mind either, and if they do go ahead with this fiasco, then the guild requirements should be removed and the cost, both status and coin should be substantially reduced.  In addition, the benches should come with the clipboard attached, so thet we would be able to start the timers for the tradeskill writs inside the house.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Hurgar]

<DIV>I will not address why this is a real bad ideal. Everybody has all ready pointed those out.</DIV> <DIV>steps to correct this</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1- don't do it.</DIV> <DIV>2- fire the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] who came up with this plan. This ideal was so stupid,  I can't understand why you even wasted time coding it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hurg </DIV>

[Deila]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ZeyGnome wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Seffrid wrote: <P>One last point - these threads often make reference to people crafting in their own homes and therefore not being affected by this. <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff33>Remember that you have to belong to a guild (of a certain level?)</FONT></STRONG> to get the crafting equipment, and guild membership is not compulsory in this game nor should it be. Not all crafters by any means are crafting for their guild, and many do not belong to one. They should not have to put up with a second-best lagged crafting environment hemmed in by horses in indoor locations where it's raining!</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>You have to be in a guild of level 25 to get the stations needed to make pristines, and each one cost roughly 1/2 million status points.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Correct. GL 25, about 80g and just shy of a half million status to purchase, for each crafting table you need.</P> <P> </P>

[Brorimed]

<P>Please do not implement this .. </P> <P>If you have good reasons please post them .</P> <P>But I see nothing but a big hazzle bubble out of this . There</P> <P>can be nothing but added frustration over a change like this because it doesnt</P> <P>show any logic . </P> <P>This allmost puts me back in the seat of the CU release for swg . </P> <P>Stupid change and no solid reason except for . "we are doing it .. haha " </P> <P> </P> <P>Brorim</P>

[Jaffa Tamarin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Seffrid wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>One last point - these threads often make reference to people crafting in their own homes and therefore not being affected by this. Remember that you have to belong to a guild (of a certain level?) to get the crafting equipment, and guild membership is not compulsory in this game nor should it be. Not all crafters by any means are crafting for their guild, and many do not belong to one. They should not have to put up with a second-best lagged crafting environment hemmed in by horses in indoor locations where it's raining!</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I lag more in my house than anywhere else in the game.  I wouldn't want to try crafting there.</P> <P>I guess if I want a lag-free crafting environment I'll have to persuade one of my alts to let me install a crafting table in their newbie inn room.</P>

[bensilvi]

With the removal of these zones why not make it easier to get stations for ones home instead of the 400k status? Perhaps make them craftable and a pristine one add bonuses to your TS buffs?

[Zaldor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dessellion wrote:<BR> <P>I find it amazing that they can announce this change with such enthusiasm making it sound like they've addressed something we've been begging for.  Yet I can't remember seeing any calls for changes to the current locations.  And judging from the responses here no one, and I do mean no one wants this change.</P> <P>Is it just a bug on Test?  Probably not since if it were you'd expect SOE to be falling over themselves to point it out.</P> <P>Is it possible to reverse their minds?  Well its happened before, but without knowing the rationale behind the change its not easy to know how easy such a reversal might be.  Someone suggested this might save them server space, if so and they're running short, expect a hard battle.  We need to hear from the wielder of the RPOD!!!</P> <P>I'll go with the one change suggested here though.  Remove the internal doors.  <FONT color=#ffff00>Stopping to hit the F key is so annoying!</FONT></P> <P>Ocasia - 9 crafters all over lvl 20</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'll give you credit for hitting the F key since most people to try and click on them, but I usually just do it on the run, don't really stop.  Sometimes the door on the screen hasn't opened but I can still get through it after hitting F if I just keep going.</P> <P>Would be nice to get rid of the doors though.</P> <P> </P> <P>Zaldor - SOE.......what'd you do to my game?<BR></P>

[Catria]

<P>Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but there are so many posts on this subject it would take forever to wade through them all to see...</P> <P>I'm wondering how removing the TS instances is going to affect the new TS writs that were recently added?  It's hard enough now to finish a rush order and the stations aren't all that far away from the table where you get the orders.  Are there going to be new NPCs standing next to each type of station or are we going to have to run around a city zone (which is now laggier than ever) and try to reach a station in time to finish these???</P>

[Cybrdroyd]

<DIV>I'm not happy with this change, please fix it.</DIV>

[rosela]

<P>I completely agree. BAD idea. Please do not remove the tradeskill instances.</P> <P> </P> <P>Ok to add the new, just leave the old the way they were.</P>

[Oakum]

<P>A lot of post here with dont do this because of increased lag and we never ask for it, ect, ect. While no one ask for the removal of the TS instances I can disaggree with the other parts. </P> <P>There was a very long thread about it when the TS stations in EF were taken out with mostly negative comments about it being removed from the TS'ers and the ADV orientated saying get rid of it mostly. </P> <P>There are a lot of threads also where people were complaining about the Freeport and Qeynos being ghost towns. Maybe the devs listened, took a look at what was going on and say hey, they are not deserted. There are several hundred people in each city but they are hidden away in the TS instances. </P> <P>Then there are the complaints about people who have to zone in and out to get stuff from bank ect. Some people with slower connections and computers take some time to zone. Any smart comments about they should upgrade thier computers and get a faster connection (which might not be available in their area) can be shot right back at those who complain about the TS stations causing lag in the main city zones. </P> <P>The dev's already tweaked the graphics in Freeport and Qeynos and removed unneeded NPC's to reduce lag although my lag has never been that bad except when the server stutters where going on.  The lag reduction might have to enable them putting the stations out in the open zones.</P> <P> Of course I am on a 3 year old laptop with 128 built in video and 2 gig memory and usually dont play above extreme performance. Thats just because I got used to it when I had one gig and found the screen just too cluttered when I raise it higher and have spent my time playing instead of tweaking the settings to get rid of the stuff I dont need and dont care about.</P> <P>Personnaly I haven't used those stations yet so I won't say its a mistake or not. I like the idea of putting crafting stations in remote zones like KoS more then in Freeport and Qeynos though. Then people can craft to kill time while they wait for group members to show up or a raid to start or killing time for whatever reason and not get stuck by a 1 to 5 minute timer when the group/raid is rdy to go.  </P>

[Kenazeer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakum wrote:<BR> <P>Then there are the complaints about people who have to zone in and out to get stuff from bank ect. Some people with slower connections and computers take some time to zone. Any smart comments about they should upgrade thier computers and get a faster connection (which might not be available in their area) can be shot right back at those who complain about the TS stations causing lag in the main city zones. </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Simpler solution, and one which would be very happily met, would be to add a banker NPC and mailbox to the TS instances I would think.

[Crashhn]

<DIV>I'll add my vote to the "Do not do this" ballot box, assuming votes are being tallied.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd rather see the TS instances left unchanged.  If they must be changed, I'd rather they be merged into one larger (more stations and room) zone while adding some banker NPC's and a few mailboxes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Someone also mentioned being able to get multiple writs and purchasing a work-order station.  While I'm a ways off from having crafting stations, it is in my future plans.  Maybe the in-house mailbox could emulate the writ-giver and order desk.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For now, the current test change needs to be scrapped and TS'ing left unchanged.  Come up with a better idea and then test again.</DIV>

[jsandawg]

I believe that the amount of lag in Qeynos Harbor is also directly tied to what server you play on.  I, myself play on Crushbone, The Bazaar, Vox, and Test server.  I usually can get around QH fairly well on The Bazaar, only lagging out significantly just above the Fence and anywhere near the regular broker.  However, on Crushbone, it is a living nightmare to go anywhere in QH.  It takes me 5 minutes just to load into the zone.  Moving around QH or SQ on Crushbone is slower than molasses, and a direct reason why I started a toon on The Bazaar which has significantly less players.  EF on Vox is getting progressively worse with lag due to the fact that all of the people who hang around afk are standing on the EF Docks because the docks in SS is slightly more hazarous <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Overall, I am all for alternative to the current tradeskill areas, but please take into account the lag in those zones in which you are going to be adding so much content.  On a side note, I really like the layout of the TS area in Haven, and since there is little to no activity there (at least on Bazaar), the lag is minimal.  All of the stations are in a centralized place with no doors or stairs.  58 - Carpenter40 - Sage44 - Provisioner36 - Tailor30 - Armorer26 - Woodworker22 - Jeweler27 - Alchemist0 - Weaponsmith <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[AnnMarieR]

If they were to do this, I would suggest a half-way house.... i.e. they remove the village TS instances, but then keep/add the TS instances into the city locations.... so the Coalition/Ironforge instances would remain.... and then they add equivalent instance to for example SQ, QH, EG... and the same in Freeport..... it still cuts down to the number of city tradeskill instances, but it still gives up both options... and because there is an overlap between outside stations, and a single instance per section of the city, it give people the choice.<div></div>

[Rrys]

<P>What about carpenters.  The last time I checked, they craft on THREE different stations.  And, I've gotten a rush order writ that use the Forge and the Woodworking bench.  And I haven't found a place yet that put those two stations (and the workbench perhaps, haven't done many writs with my carpenter yet) where they are close enough to be able to finish the writ.</P> <P>And,</P> <P>WHAT ABOUT THE  BROKERS and BANKS!  The running around to buy additional raws or to get raws out of the bank will be madness.  And also, the last time I checked, some of the city zones don't have bankers and or brokers (both Qeynos and Freeport included here).  What the hell is SOE thinking!</P> <P>And two more things now that I think about it.  First, is (wait for it) people crafting while mounted.  Some huge barbarian on a huge horse crafting away at the forge, etc, etc, etc, and get two or three around a forge and you won't even be able to see the thing.</P> <P>And lastly, I suspect (I'm 52 btw) that I may be ADHD inattentive to some degree.  I have trouble focusing some times when I've only got one companion at the crafting station with me.  What will it be like, when any Tom, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] or Harry and just come trotting by to check out the crafting action?</P> <P>These crafting instance changes have to rank about #1 in SOE's Hall of Assinine Changes!</P><p>Message Edited by Rrys on <span class=date_text>09-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:23 PM</span>

[Xaqari]

<P>i already voiced my opinion about this on the test feedback board.  i'll just sum it up here:</P> <P>"unfreaking real".</P> <P>let's hope all the uproar, or even just a very small %age of it, gets through their heads so this can be stopped!  <sigh></P> <P>:smileysad:</P>

[Oakum]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xaqari wrote:<BR> <P>i already voiced my opinion about this on the test feedback board.  i'll just sum it up here:</P> <P>"unfreaking real".</P> <P>let's hope all the uproar, or even just a very small %age of it, gets through their heads so this can be stopped!  <sigh></P> <P>:smileysad:</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>People tend to 'talk' louder and longer when they are against something therefore there will always be a lot more negative post then positive.  The Dev's know this too. </P> <P>On the other hand, I really don't believe it will go live as is without several more changes and it was brought up on the test server that their MIGHT be instances left in and other stations installed also along with the ones that are there now. That is why there is a test server, to test, take feedback, and change as necessary to fit what players want and what the long time goals for the game are by the developers. </P> <P>We at best have a short timeframe, general view where the game is going to go and the changes necessary to get it there whether all the players like it or not. </P> <P>The changes won't work the way they are on test now but we do need to give the dev's some credit. If they didn't know something about making a MMORPG it would not have got out of beta and kept most of their players satisfied enough to keep playing for 2 years now.  </P>

[Midomiko]

<P>Removing the Tradeskill Instances has more negatives to it that benefits, as has been stated repeatedly across so many threads about the subject.  Not much I can say that is really new to add, but I do want to throw in my voice against the removal of our existing instances.</P> <P>Something else I saw mentioned a couple times that I would also like to promote, especially if losing our TS instances becomes a reality:  removal of raid instances should be seriously considered.  If even one single bit of hardware from the removal of TS instances is used to support new zones for the expansion, then SOE and the community as a whole would be better served by using hardware from the raid instances.  After all, a single tradeskill instance can see how many hundred players every day?  Even spread across 7 instances per city, each instance, between people visiting the broker as well as actual crafters can see 150+ visitors per day on a relatively busy server (that's 1050+ per server in all TS instances combined for Qeynos alone, not counting Freeport), even more on high population ones.  How many players visit any single raid instance in a day?  Most raid instances have a 6+ day lockout, with only 24 players allowed in at a time, and figure there are what... 5-15 raid guilds per server regularly using them?  That makes 4 players per day per guild on average, or 20-60 players per day per server total; talk about underutilized hardware!!</P> <P>(Before more raiders take it personally, I am making a point here of just how stupid this idea of removing the instances is)</P><p>Message Edited by Midomiko on <span class=date_text>09-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:32 AM</span>

[Tallarain]

I have looked over most of these replies and found that nothing has been mentioned about the repercussions on the finished trade goods market...IF this goes through and the repercussions of the heightened lag are felt as some may have suggested, then by the simple law of supply and demand, with supply probably drying up on a wide range of items, the cost to the buyer of any given player manufactured item will skyrocket.For example today I see level 40 food selling for an average of about 1gp per. IF the TS tables are only available in high lag zones and many TSers quit making said level 40 foodstuffs, the ones that do brave the lag and make these items will be selling them for astronomical amounts, all because they can demand and get premium cash for these scarce items. This will go for any character manufactured item.Dropped items being sold on brokers may drop in price to a price point where they may become sold to merchants totally, as people will not go to high lag zones to see the only broker in the city to buy the mob dropped items they are missing for upgrading their equipment or spells.If the idea is pushed through and the lag becomes as bad as most people fear, then these new tradeskiling zones will become even more of a ghost town than currently they are. Players will avoid lag and because the new targeted TS zones are in what I see on my server as currently high traffic, connecting zones, travel through these zones will come to a standstill and folks will become frustrated more and more over travel around Norrath. This frustration will only lead to more and more people leaving the game as it becomes less and less fun to play.Lag kills players enjoyment of the game, and increasing the permanent lag only will serve to frustrate more and more players, driving them to other games. Is this what Sony wants?

[thepriz]

<div><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> thepriz wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> Maroger wrote: <div></div> <p>I agree this is a poorly planned update. It contributes to lag in the cities ( didn't they "fix" that in the last patch and now they want to break it??).</p> <p>But worse -- it is just plain silly. Whoever saw a tradeskill instance on a city street or in a store? What is wrong with just reactivating some of the old tradeskill instances??</p> <hr> </blockquote>Actually in the middle ages, you would go to the blacksmith shop to get your metal things made, you would go to the carpenter to get your wood things made. They where right there in the shop you went to to get them. It wasn't till later that you had supermarkets and such.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Actually in the Middle Ages, the craft guilds has guild halls, and master craftsman had workrooms in their homes. The only reason you saw the blacksmith outside is that it is difficult to get a horse in the house and besides a spark from your forge might burn your thatch cottage down.</p> <p>People DID NOT CRAFT in the middle of the street in the middle ages!!</p><hr></blockquote>Didn't say they did craft in the middle of the street. I said they crafted in their shops. And you would go to there shop to get the stuff you needed.</div>

[thepriz]

<div></div><div></div>I think adding Tradeskill equipment to the city zones is a great idea. If convenience is the only argument you have for not having them do this then it should be done. As it is now I can do TS writs extreamly fast compared to adventure writs. Why should it be more convenient for Tradeskillers to do writs than Adventures? Adventures don't get the luxury of getting thier writs in the same room as the mobs. For most of them they also have to get a group to do them. Then they have to zone several times and them camp the mobs to get the Adventure writs complete. I can spend a little time harvesting and crank out 7-8 writs an hour. Now for those that don't harvest they can continually do this buy buying the ingreadients from the broker and still make money doing writs. As an adventure I can probably get 4 writs done in an hour if I have a group (which doesn't happen very often). My average is about 2 writs every hour (if I can solo the mobs myself).One complaint I have is that the lag problem needs to be solved before this goes live. Which is going to create another problem. If they start adding Tradeskill equipement all over the place (besides the cities, which is not neccessarily a bad idea) you will then continue the reduction of people in the cities.The other complaint that I have is that some of the locations of the equipment are really cramped. Since there are less places to craft more crafters are going to be using the existing stations. I would like to see them create some new buildings that are specificly designed for crafting.<div></div><p>Message Edited by thepriz on <span class="date_text">09-26-2006</span> <span class="time_text">11:44 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by thepriz on <span class=date_text>09-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:44 AM</span>