Wondering: Does Sony acknowledge the problems with Rangers?

[Akie]

<DIV>I am just wondering if Sony believes there is a problem with ranger CA's and has any intension of fixing it? For those that are not aware, rangers are suppose to be the Qeynos equal of an Assassin, but, the ranger CA line completely SUCKS and has horrible DPS at level 70. Long casting times combined with low damage makes rangers DPS far below an assassin's, even one with horrible gear compared  to the ranger. Take streaming shot for example, useless, you can use a level 30 bow and get more DPS. Our Ancient spell, Thorney trap.. wow, what a cool toy, but, again, it's totally useless for anything endgame. How about Sniper shot? Hmm, cool, does some decent damage, just too bad it takes 10 years to cast! Useless! Not even used on raids by endgame rangers other than to play around and try for a high hit every now and then. Casting Sniper Shot lowers your parse significantly. Those are just a few examples, the list goes on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even more of an issue, this makes Qeynos side totally undesirable on the PvP servers because it's a LOT harder to raid when the DPS class that's suppose to be parsing the highest is outdone by Fighter classes half the time. You'll never see a Qeynos guild on any PvP server ever coming close to putting their hands on Chel'drak or even doing much in DT with the way that SOE currently has rangers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hopefully SOE could please make a comment about this.</DIV>

[jjlo69]

<P>if your that unhappy you can just betray to aa sin or reroll </P> <P> </P> <P><IMG src="http://i10.tinypic.com/4bdwhh0.jpg"></P>

[Kraven Coldblade]

<P>I will say that from what I've witnessed Ranger CA's could use some boost in damage. I think they are far from being useless tho lol. That's rather silly to say that Ranger attacks are useless. The problem here imo is not whether SOE cares about Rangers or not. That's again a silly question. Why wouldn't they care? It's a class they created right? It's part of the game right? I think the problem lies in the word "parse" that you use. The problem is anyone who's considered a damage dealer expects to be #1 on parser. I am guilty of that I promise you so I can completely empathize that Rangers being considered a high dps class is lacking in damage. I will also agree on the long casting. </P> <P>An assassin has to get up close and personal with the mob. Which also means that an Assassin has to worry about AoE damage (unlike a Brigand or a Ranger). Rangers (just like casters) can pretty much stay at range and do what they do best which is provide steady dps with arrows etc. I'm not trying to justify why Assassin does more damage than Rangers, I'm simply pointing out the advantage vs disadvantage between ranged damage and melee.</P> <P>Furthermore, I can see the problem with the "fixing" of this class to do more damage. The problem I see is with Rangers as a whole and not just a raiding ranger. I've grouped with many rangers even after the so called damage nerf and in groups Rangers do just fine. Steady dps at range or melee. When you go in raids that's where you can see some reduction. It is a sensitive issue with rangers and simply bumping up CA damage output won't fix the problem. I also would like to see how SOE might deal with such issues.</P> <P> </P>

[Dojoc]

<div></div><div></div>Lets see:<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=109784&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target="_blank">1st</a><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=34568" target="_blank">2nd</a><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=113285" target="_blank">3rd</a><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=35306#M35306" target="_blank">4th</a>etc.<font color="#ff0000">simple answer to your question:</font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000">no</font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000">b/c we all dont know how to play our ranger ...</font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000">Dev's answer:  rangers are fine, they perform one of the best DPS currently in game, lol ...</font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000">you are outdamaged by a swashi, brig, ele, necro, berz ? then plz, read the first line again</font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000">oh wait, you want parsings ? heres one, hot & fresh from a dev</font>A guild that chooses not to invite Rangers on their raids because they claim that Rangers as a class (and not the individual player) deal less DPS could become trapped in a self-fulfilling prophecy that they could not ever prove theirselves wrong.I raided this weekend and using a local parser and the Ranger in the raid used their parser. After each fight, there were variations in the amount of damage recorded. There are all kinds of factors that go into which data gets parsed and how, that these parsers are a great tool to measure overall how well players DPS, but it is never 100% accurate. Local parser results can vary due to distance and lag. Many times, the Ranger’s parses of their own performance were higher than what my parser indicated, sometimes by over 100 DPS in favor of the Ranger on their own parse.On this thread, there’s a post of the zone dps of a raid in Halls of Seeing that you can use as a comparison, although with the varied raid composition, group configurations, player skill, equipment, spell upgrades, spell reuse timers, and parser unreliability, in the end you’re really only comparing apples and oranges. Rangers happen to do well very consistently in single target, multiple target, and area effect avoidance encounters, that some classes can vary wildly on. Take the following Halls of Seeing raid I went on with a grain of salt, as should all local parse results:<u>A sentry of the hoard:</u>Allies: (01:02) 1065654 | 17187.97 [Wizard-Fusion-16043]Ranger 98899 | 1595.15Assassin 89273 | 1439.89Wizard 86684 | 1398.13Conjurer 81984 | 1322.32Wizard 69584 | 1122.32Coercer 64699 | 1043.53Warlock 64390 | 1038.55Troubador 56281 | 907.76Allies: (01:16) 1062808 | 13984.32 [Wizard-Ice Nova-14367]Ranger 125104 | 1646.11Assassin 84289 | 1109.07Conjurer 81943 | 1078.20Warlock 73808 | 971.16Berserker 68930 | 906.97Wizard 68715 | 904.14Brigand 66286 | 872.18Troubador 61369 | 807.49<u>A sentry of seeing:</u>Allies: (01:00) 961413 | 16023.55 [Assassin-Decapitate-23925]Ranger 84013 | 1400.22Assassin 76236 | 1270.60Conjurer 74565 | 1242.75Wizard 60945 | 1015.75Brigand 60904 | 1015.07Wizard 56148 | 935.80Berserker 53958 | 899.30Warlock 51909 | 865.15<u>A triumphant visionary:</u>Allies: (01:30) 1204583 | 13384.26 [Wizard-Ice Nova-14777]Wizard 116389 | 1293.21Ranger 115193 | 1279.92Wizard 86867 | 965.19Assassin 78485 | 872.06Conjurer 77769 | 864.10Berserker 75227 | 835.86Coercer 72926 | 810.29Warlock 72369 | 804.10Allies: (01:33) 1205959 | 12967.30 [Wizard-Ice Nova-12794]Ranger 127786 | 1374.04Wizard 111869 | 1202.89Conjurer 105650 | 1136.02Wizard 95347 | 1025.24Brigand 92420 | 993.76Swashbuckler 81812 | 879.70Berserker 69027 | 742.23Coercer 68984 | 741.76<u>An exultant seer:</u>Allies: (01:26) 1159431 | 13481.76 [Wizard-Ice Nova-18317]Ranger 120591 | 1402.22Assassin 101680 | 1182.33Conjurer 100251 | 1165.71Brigand 86613 | 1007.13Wizard 77457 | 900.66Coercer 75980 | 883.49Bruiser 72407 | 841.94Troubador 69694 | 810.40<u>A shadowy construct:</u>Allies: (01:1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 1205657 | 15457.14 [Wizard-Ice Nova-11456]Conjurer 117422 | 1505.41Ranger 115098 | 1475.62Assassin 96578 | 1238.18Brigand 87078 | 1116.39Wizard 81082 | 1039.51Warlock 76100 | 975.64Wizard 74491 | 955.01Swashbuckler 72507 | 929.58<b>Named Encounters:</b><u>A Shadowy Presence:</u>Allies: (02:44) 2050095 | 12500.58 [Assassin-Decapitate-15410]Ranger 229596 | 1399.98Conjurer 190418 | 1161.09Assassin 168050 | 1024.70Brigand 167862 | 1023.55Wizard 155020 | 945.24Berserker 128529 | 783.71Troubador 117440 | 716.10Wizard 116128 | 708.10<u>The Overlord of Captivity:</u>Allies: (04:07) 2831204 | 11462.36 [Wizard-Ice Nova-14670]Ranger 342797 | 1387.84Assassin 271019 | 1097.24Brigand 220264 | 891.76Troubador 196234 | 794.47Wizard 186107 | 753.47Bruiser 182173 | 737.54Conjurer 180999 | 732.79Coercer 165533 | 670.17<u>A Charged Presence:</u>Allies: (02:51) 2113375 | 12358.92 [Wizard-Ice Nova-12620]Ranger 235456 | 1376.94Brigand 183285 | 1071.84Assassin 178073 | 1041.36Bruiser 172754 | 1010.26Conjurer 166484 | 973.59Wizard 152688 | 892.91Berserker 134630 | 787.31Troubador 132866 | 776.99I wouldn’t use these local parses or any parsers posted in this thread to determine class balance. Going by the server data, I still cannot find any evidence that Rangers are nothing short of a top DPS performing class that would warrant a balance change granting them additional damage. Note that I used the server data before to measure the amount of DPS imbalance that Rangers had during the proc-delay changes and made the necessary changes in the next update to bring their DPS up based on that data.<p>Message Edited by Lockeye on <span class="date_text">07-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:22 PM</span></p><div>=============================================Jared SweattEverQuest II Spells, Achievements, and Gameplay Designeras you can see ( see above) , rangers are fine<font color="#ff0000">want more ?</font><div>Regardless of what I actually observe in game as a player, the server wide parses show that Rangers are performing where they should be. In <u>none</u> of the categories does a Conjurer, Necromancer, Swashbuckler, or Brigand ever outrank the Ranger's DPS averages. What I observe in game also happens to reflect what the data shows, but not every individual Ranger's performance will reflect the data. I know it may not be what some of you may want to hear, but I'm going by raw data.</div><p>Message Edited by Lockeye on <span class="date_text">07-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:28 PM</span></p><div>=============================================Jared SweattEverQuest II Spells, Achievements, and Gameplay Designer<font color="#ff0000"></font></div></div><font color="#ff0000">well you know, devs are using acient tools to check class dps ... oh wait ... does any of you remember of this proc bug ? yes i mean this which was since release in game and was nerfed at KoS, lol</font><div></div><p>Nachricht bearbeitet von Dojocan am <span class=date_text>09-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:11 PM</span>

[Dojoc]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kraven Coldblade schrieb:<div></div> <p>The problem is anyone who's considered a damage dealer expects to be #1 on parser. </p><hr></blockquote>hell no, no way iam talking every single day I MUST BE #1 on the parser .... i know i share this spot with wizzis, warlocks and assa's ... but hell no way should a so called t2 dps class outdamaged me on a regular basis every single day .. but guess what ? those players iam raiding every day, are good players, really good players .... the hole [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing problem is, that our swashy, our 2 brigs, our 3 ele's and our 2 necros outdamaged me on nearly every single raid encounter in this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing game, and guess what ? iam nearly full mastered ( wtb sniper shot lvl 58 master) plus maxed str, plus legendary mastercrafted DD poison + troub buffs+ inqui buffs + wizzi buffs + ele buffs + illu buffs, almost at 400 points at pierce, ranged and slashing skill , off stance at master 1, hate reducer on m1, using bazkuls bow and have max spell crit and max ranged crit + poise on me ..... so what ?do you think i should play more defensive as a ranger , do you think iam not maxed out ??? my job is to do dmg, b/c this is the only [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing job i have to do on raids .. i dont buff group members, i dont buff the MT, i dont give any usefull spell on the wizzi in my group, instead of that , iam sucking all of those buffs into me ... and at the end they arent orking with my ranged CA's ? Iam outdamaged by a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing t2 class, which brings tons, i repeat TONS, of debuffs, a hate transfer, utility, and much moreoh wait, i have a sucky hawk which is broken since kos release, pathfinding (oh great running buff out of combat, WOHOOO)want to hear my DPS ?1437 zonewide labs1389 zonewide lyceum1434 zonewide Dt (without tari)is this good ? hm well should be higher ... the hole [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing problem is that our 3 eles are doing nearly 500 more dps than me, the swashy is doing more dmg than me and so on and the end iam asking my self, why all this work for me ? you should give the buffs , erk what iam talking about, you should give my spot in the raid to that stupid necro who is running lfg .... b/c not only he would bring some nice utility within. .. nono .... give him 7 masters and he will make more dmg than me, a so called t1 class</div>

[Solu]

Oh quit your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] whining... Rangers are probably the most CONSISTANT DPS classes in game. As a wizard (WHICH IS A T1 class and imo should deal well over any other class including rangers because we cant take a hit in the pinky toe and live) I have to bust my butt to keep up with rangers on raids. Rangers have plenty of damage and I will take consistant dps over spike dps any day.

[monrofayy]

<DIV><FONT size=2> <P>ranger - range-ger the CA up front and personal do blow</P> <P>played ranger up to 68 my self, and when the mob is roaring in your face LOL best bet is to put up some distance,,rangers counter part it's all toe to toe</P> <P>as long as a ranger's distance CA"'s don't crap the bed</P> <P>time mob gets to you it's 85% dead already any how</P></FONT></DIV>

[Pherra]

<FONT color=#9999ff></FONT> <DIV><BR><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akient wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0033>Even more of an issue, this makes Qeynos side totally undesirable on the PvP servers because it's a LOT harder to raid when the DPS class that's suppose to be parsing the highest</FONT> is outdone by Fighter classes half the time. You'll never see a Qeynos guild on any PvP server ever coming close to putting their hands on Chel'drak or even doing much in DT with the way that SOE currently has rangers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hopefully SOE could please make a comment about this.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#9999ff>Since when are Rangers supposed to be doing the most dps?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#9999ff>You need to realize that you were never meant to be the highest dps, that spot is supposed to be for casters that give up their armor to do high damage. It's really hard seeing a ranger crying about how much (or little) damage they do when warlocks and wizards have to hold back with their spells half the time to avoid getting aggro and when they do have the tankage to go all out they're still out dps'd by ranger, assassins and the likes. If you're not doing those kinds of damage as the other rangers are then maybe the problem lies with you and not with the class.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#9999ff>I suggest you play a warlock or wizard to level 70 and raid with him/her. You'll run back to your ranger with your tail tucked between your legs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#9999ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#9999ff>*hands akient a tissue* now stop crying</FONT></DIV>

[TaleraRis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kraven Coldblade wrote:<BR> <P>An assassin has to get up close and personal with the mob. Which also means that an Assassin has to worry about AoE damage (unlike a Brigand or a Ranger). Rangers (just like casters) can pretty much stay at range and do what they do best which is provide steady dps with arrows etc.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Sweet christ, STOP spreading this misapprehension. A ranger only doing ranged is short-changing themselves on their DPS. To maximize our DPS, we have to utilize BOTH ranged attacks and the melee attacks that we get, which requires staying in the "sweet spot" of a mob, which is very much in range of AoEs and which means we very much have to worry about anything that is going to hit a straight melee fighter.</P> <P>I don't raid. I don't group much, but when I do group, I'm sure as heck not idling back there only flinging arrows every now and then. I'm up where I can use all my skills, far enough away for ranged (which last I knew was 5m) and close enough for most melee attacks, although there are still a couple that even then we have to move in closer for and then back out to the sweet spot.</P> <P>I'm a mostly solo ranger, and we utilize melee there as well. There's a limited amount of time that we can keep the mob at a distance from us to be able to use our ranged attacks. At my level, I have Thorny Trap and I have the 4 second root on our lunge line for roots, and a 4 second stun from Cheap Shot that only works on no arrows or less and anything with an arrow it only lasts 2 seconds. Snare *can* keep a mob at a distance, but the ranger must keep moving to use snare to the best ability and the majority of ranger attacks, especially the heavy hitting ones, cannot be cast on the move. I open in a solo fight with ranged, utilizing my TT and lunge line root where I can, and then I *must* melee.</P> <P>I will say again, any ranger who only sits back and plinks arrows, in any playstyle, is not doing all they can to maximize DPS and you will find VERY few rangers who actually understand our limitations and advantages out there doing so.<BR></P>

[Akie]

<DIV>First I have to say, Pherra, you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rangers ARE meant to be high DPS, that's their role. Most cloth classes have much more to donate to a raid other than DPS, such as uber buffs and abilites. THAT would be their sacrifice for wearing cloth, not just having high DPS. Necro's and Wizards always parse high in our raids as well. Necro's, Wizards, Warlocks and Conj along with having the cool utilities / abilities and buffs they do, do nice damage and are typically very valuable on raids.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rangers provide no cool buffs, have no speical abilities unique to a raid AND our DPS is sub par. If you know anything about playing a ranger, just to make it on the parse you're gonna need to use some of your close melee abilities as well, so that puts the whole staying out of AE range bonus to rest. Even staying at range a lot of AE's hit you anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That dev parse is insane - I've never seen a ranger consistantly parse higher than an assassin, the assassin had to be slacken hard or have crap for gear and all app 1's. I agree that dev was comparing apples to oranges, because to parse that high consistantly he had to of had some really uber gear and everyone else not. I would suspect that a dev would say something like that to lighten his work load or not admit to doing something wrong. Obviously this dev had a part in creating ranger CA's and doesn't want to admit his mistakes. There is 1000 other parses by rangers in some of the best guilds in EQ2 showing much different results. When you take equally geared characters, you're gonna see a big unbalancing difference even from the ranger that plays his class the best way possible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So far the only people I've seen that disagree that rangers need their CA's fixed are either NOT rangers or people that just like to troll message boards and add comments to stuff, but have no idea what they're talking about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>**/hands Pherra back the tissue and gives him the knowing a thing or two about Everquest 2 Classes guide**</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Akient on <SPAN class=date_text>09-20-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:25 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Akient on <span class=date_text>09-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:29 PM</span>

[Scarrlette]

There is a neat forum for rangers specifically, might I suggest that you go over there and join the ongoing discussions?