YAHOO!!! Plat Spammers will soon no longer be a problem... (or as big of a problem at least.)

[Cusashorn]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=145" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=145</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>FINALLY!!!!</DIV>

[electricninjasex]

<div></div>Now the big question is, what will SOE do about the quest mobs in Bonemire and Obelisk of Lost Souls that are providing all the plat to the pharmers in the first place?  Or heck, we could discuss the fabled staff that drops off soloable mobs in LT, or even the proven pharming method by which a T1 character can harvest nodes in Bonemire aggro-free.  Do any of these fit the game's vision?  Do they even try? You will notice that all the plat spam came from a single website.  Was that website prosecuted in any way, or are we merely told not to mention it in these forums? <div></div><p>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <span class=date_text>08-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:19 AM</span>

[SilverSlayer]

<div><blockquote><hr>electricninjasex wrote:<div></div>Now the big question is, what will SOE do about the quest mobs in Bonemire and Obelisk of Lost Souls that are providing all the plat to the pharmers in the first place?  Or heck, we could discuss the fabled staff that drops off soloable mobs in LT, or even the proven pharming method by which a T1 character can harvest nodes in Bonemire aggro-free.  Do any of these fit the game's vision?  Do they even try? You will notice that all the plat spam came from a single website.  Was that website prosecuted in any way, or are we merely told not to mention it in these forums? <div></div><p>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <span class="date_text">08-25-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:19 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>so you want to hurt legitmate players by having them nerf stuff in the game after stopping the plat sellers from advertising in game.  I am definately against nerfing content or money makers for legitimate players. </div>

[Koehianna]

Who cares about anything else.  Now the spam is gone!<div></div>

[Dasein]

<hr size="2" width="100%">Was that website prosecuted in any way, or are we merely told not to mention it in these forums? <hr size="2" width="100%"> Prosecuted for what? <div></div>

[electricninjasex]

<blockquote><hr>Caswydian wrote: Prosecuted for what? <div></div><hr></blockquote>Do I have to start from scratch every time I make a forum post?

[Laiina]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>electricninjasex wrote:</P> <P><BR>You will notice that all the plat spam came from a single website.  <STRONG><U>Was that website prosecuted in any way</U></STRONG>, or are we merely told not to mention it in these forums?<BR></P> <P>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <SPAN class=date_text>08-25-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:19 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Uhm.....</P> <P>Sorry, but SOE cannot prosecute a website, only the police or other law enforcement can do that. And there has to be a crime commited first (what a concept!).</P> <P>What exactly would you have the FBI or attorney general or whoever prosecute them for?<BR></P>

[SniperKitty]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> electricninjasex wrote:<BR> Now the big question is, what will SOE do about the quest mobs in Bonemire and Obelisk of Lost Souls that are providing all the plat to the pharmers in the first place?  Or heck, we could discuss the fabled staff that drops off soloable mobs in LT, or even the proven pharming method by which a T1 character can harvest nodes in Bonemire aggro-free.  Do any of these fit the game's vision?  Do they even try?<BR><BR>You will notice that all the plat spam came from a single website.  Was that website prosecuted in any way, or are we merely told not to mention it in these forums?<BR> <P>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <SPAN class=date_text>08-25-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:19 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What quest mobs are these?  I need about 10p in a short amount of time for my warden so she can get a full set of dragonhide at 62. ^_^

[ChrisRay]

No, they can only send a tell to a person if that person has them on their friends list. Not if they put that person on their friends list.<div></div>

[Chefren]

<div><blockquote><hr>- Must be on someone's friends list in order to send /tells to them- Cannot trade with other players<hr></blockquote>It would make sense to be able to communicate and trade with other trial/newbie isle players at least.</div>

[MaryJane666]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> holystones wrote:<BR>Actually no the spam isnt gone. At least thats the way I read it. <BR><BR>- Cannot send /tells to players on other servers or games<BR>-<FONT color=#ff0000> </FONT><FONT color=#cc00ff>Must be on someone's friends list in order to send /tells to them<BR></FONT><BR>Now lets look at that shall we. What in that phrasing could lead to getting around the changes and still spam?<BR>It says they can not send tells to to players on OTHER servers or games. Ok. but what about the server they are on when they make the char like say blackburrow?<BR><FONT color=#ffffff>Now lets look at the second 1. </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>They can only send a tell to a person on there freinds list</FONT>. And that person on there list has to be on there server. Well hell its not rocket science. Any 3rd world rice eating [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] can figure that 1 out. Go on up to the lfg community option, do a search of all zones that automaticly gives you a list of everyone, <FONT color=#cc00ff>go ahead and type that name into ur freinds list</FONT> and what do you get? Another god dam error that will never be fixed until maby 2 lu's from now.<BR>So for the love of god fix it now.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I think what they are saying is that the person sending the tell has to be on the OTHER person's friend list.  At least that is how it looks to me cuz it says <FONT color=#cc00ff>Must be ON someone's friends list</FONT>.  I could be wrong...but that is how i interperet it.<BR>

[AntLi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=145" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=145</a></div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>FINALLY!!!!</div><hr></blockquote>YES!!!!!!  Take that you plat selling spamming scum! This is great news! </div>

[Onorem]

Trial of the Isle players:- Cannot send /tells to players on other servers or games- Must be on someone's friends list in order to send /tells to them- Cannot trade with other players- Cannot be invited into guilds- Cannot create a guild or assist in the creation of a guild        <font color="#ccff00">  -they couldn't do this before?</font>- Cannot purchase items from the broker or from consignment vendors<font color="#ccff00">          -they couldn't do this before?</font>- Cannot list items for sale on the broker<font color="#ccff00">          -they couldn't do this before?</font>- Cannot send or receive in-game mail<font color="#ccff00">          -they couldn't do this before?</font>- Cannot talk in server-wide chat channels (level channels, class channels, etc.)<hr size="2" width="100%"><font color="#ccff00">Am I missing something?  Are they adding a broker and mailbox to the Isle?</font><div></div>

[goyom]

awesome news.

[Nainitsuj]

<P>They were a problem?</P> <P> </P> <P>Oh, you mean like the time their tell spawned 17 red epics on me while I was harvesting nodes.  I hate when that happens.</P>

[Derrmerth2]

Must be on someone's friends list in order to send /tells to themThats totally the idea I posted a bit ago. Great minds think alike. Or was my idea so l33t you had to use it?

[Mystara]

I for one am tired of getting tells sent to me in the middle of a conversation with friends. I pay for a game, I don't want unsolicited ads on it.I don't care who does it, what country they come from, or why.All I can say is I'm glad for this change, perhaps they will now just leave me alone.<p>Message Edited by Mystara on <span class=date_text>08-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:55 AM</span>

[Trillien]

<div></div>The spam is NOT the problem...a simple click or two makes that go away. The REAL problem is the farmer/botters who are stripping the zones clean of everything. That is what needs a solution. Without them, spammers would have nothing to offer. But...petition after petition by multiple players...and the farmer/botters are still there. <span>:smileysad:</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Trillien on <span class=date_text>08-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:52 AM</span>

[Saihung23]

<P>Personally, I dont care if other people think that the spam wasnt annoying, or wasnt a problem.</P> <P>I am ecstatic that it is being dealt with.  If you dont care then...dont care...obviously the Dev's saw it as a bigger problem than you folks did and those are the ones who matter when it comes to the game being changed.</P> <P>Great Change Dev's.</P> <P> </P> <P>***Edited due to a comment on a post that was moderated into oblivion***</P><p>Message Edited by Saihung23 on <span class=date_text>08-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:28 AM</span>

[Lord_Quaymar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> electricninjasex wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caswydian wrote:<BR><BR>Prosecuted for what?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Do I have to start from scratch every time I make a forum post?<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>They can't be prosecuted. Sony and Blizzard have both tried and lost. Not only that, most of these companies are outside of the U.S. and in a country that makes it all but impossible to file suit anyhow.</P> <P> </P>

[jddro]

<DIV>LOL this is funny , just like when WOW bans almost 1 million accounts for gold farmers .. everyone like whooo whoooo thank the almight gods!!!! but then the plat farmers go and open up 3 more accounts and start all over and back in business 48hrs later.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if they wanna do it, they will find a way, banning accounts/changing the world isnt gonna stop em. Take EQ1 for example when yantis started selling plat , everyone flammed the holy hell outta him and sony tryed crackin down on him .... and 5 years later ... omg he is STILL here and HE IS MAKIN EVEN MORE MONEY ..... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>when there is ingame currency of any kind there is gonna be farmers , deal with it or move on ..... they pay there $15 a month to farm, you pay your $15 to lvl enjoy the game/raid .. whatever .... </DIV>

[Onorem]

<div><blockquote><hr>jddrogs wrote:<div>LOL this is funny , just like when WOW bans almost 1 million accounts for gold farmers .. everyone like whooo whoooo thank the almight gods!!!! but then the plat farmers go and open up 3 more accounts and start all over and back in business 48hrs later.</div> <div> </div> <div>if they wanna do it, they will find a way, banning accounts/changing the world isnt gonna stop em. Take EQ1 for example when yantis started selling plat , everyone flammed the holy hell outta him and sony tryed crackin down on him .... and 5 years later ... omg he is STILL here and HE IS MAKIN EVEN MORE MONEY ..... </div> <div> </div> <div>when there is ingame currency of any kind there is gonna be farmers , deal with it or move on ..... they pay there $15 a month to farm, you pay your $15 to lvl enjoy the game/raid .. whatever .... </div><hr></blockquote>What do you think they prefer?  Free accounts that they have no fear of losing, or paying $15 for every account that someone reports?It won't stop them, but it will inconvenience them.  It will cost them some of their profits.  That's a good thing, IMO.</div>

[Thicket Tundrabog]

<div><blockquote><hr>electricninjasex wrote:<div></div> or even the proven pharming method by which a T1 character can harvest nodes in Bonemire aggro-free.  Do any of these fit the game's vision?  Do they even try? <hr></blockquote>A T1 character cannot harvest nodes in Bonemire, period. You have to be a high level adventurer and/or a high level tradeskiller to harvest in a T7 zone. If your question is 'should a T1 adventurer (T7 tradeskiller) be able to harvest in Bonemire aggro-free?' then the answer is a resounding YES. SoE advertised two distinct progression routes, adventuring and tradeskilling. A tradeskiller should not be dependent on a high-level adventurer to harvest the raw materials they need for their chosen route.</div>

[Oakum]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> electricninjasex wrote:<BR> Now the big question is, what will SOE do about the quest mobs in Bonemire and Obelisk of Lost Souls that are providing all the plat to the pharmers in the first place?  Or heck, we could discuss the fabled staff that drops off soloable mobs in LT, or even the proven pharming method by which a T1 character can harvest nodes in Bonemire aggro-free.  Do any of these fit the game's vision?  Do they even try?<BR><BR>You will notice that all the plat spam came from a single website.  Was that website prosecuted in any way, or are we merely told not to mention it in these forums?<BR> <P>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <SPAN class=date_text>08-25-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:19 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Which staff? The conjurer healing staff which is a rare drop and no trade?</DIV>

[taywalt]

    I am just happy to see them doing something about it, though now I can't have as much fun when I spam them back with randomness<span>:smileywink:As for the farmers that fund them, there is really no problem with them, they pay for their accounts and choose to farm all day. Though they may irritate me, there is nothing you can do about them. However, botters are a whole different thing that I don't need to get into.</span><div></div>

[Looker1010]

<DIV>That was truly wonderful news!</DIV>

[Saihung23]

<P>Why are you guys advertising the plat sellers website here....</P> <P>Thats really not bright.</P>

[ca]

<P>Sun....that was awsome! exactly the type of scenario I was thinking when I read someone say these people should be prosocuted, so lets see we already have someone calling for real life prosocution of something that happens in a video game that leaves.....hmm how many pages is it till a Hitler/[Removed for Content] reference is made again? i forgot. Just please no one starve to death in an internet caffe or jump out of a window because of these plat farmers! people will think we are all crazy.</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> taywalt wrote:<BR>    I am just happy to see them doing something about it, though now I can't have as much fun when I spam them back with randomness<SPAN>:smileywink:<BR></SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>see that is the part I am going to miss the most too, I loved sending them tells back and seeing there confused reactions.<BR></P>

[jddro]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jddrogs wrote:<BR> <DIV>LOL this is funny , just like when WOW bans almost 1 million accounts for gold farmers .. everyone like whooo whoooo thank the almight gods!!!! but then the plat farmers go and open up 3 more accounts and start all over and back in business 48hrs later.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if they wanna do it, they will find a way, banning accounts/changing the world isnt gonna stop em. Take EQ1 for example when yantis started selling plat , everyone flammed the holy hell outta him and sony tryed crackin down on him .... and 5 years later ... omg he is STILL here and HE IS MAKIN EVEN MORE MONEY ..... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>when there is ingame currency of any kind there is gonna be farmers , deal with it or move on ..... they pay there $15 a month to farm, you pay your $15 to lvl enjoy the game/raid .. whatever .... </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>What do you think they prefer?  Free accounts that they have no fear of losing, or paying $15 for every account that someone reports?<BR>It won't stop them, but it will inconvenience them.  It will cost them some of their profits.  That's a good thing, IMO.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3366ff>-- The amount of money they make makes $15 per account chump change .. seriously ... they are working currency in the millions you honestly think they are gonna give a rats about a measly $15?? probably not ..... --</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by jddrogs on <span class=date_text>08-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:56 AM</span>

[Tesar/Oogar]

<blockquote><hr>Thicket Tundrabog wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>electricninjasex wrote:<div></div> or even the proven pharming method by which a T1 character can harvest nodes in Bonemire aggro-free.  Do any of these fit the game's vision?  Do they even try? <hr></blockquote>A T1 character cannot harvest nodes in Bonemire, period. You have to be a high level adventurer and/or a high level tradeskiller to harvest in a T7 zone. If your question is 'should a T1 adventurer (T7 tradeskiller) be able to harvest in Bonemire aggro-free?' then the answer is a resounding YES. SoE advertised two distinct progression routes, adventuring and tradeskilling. A tradeskiller should not be dependent on a high-level adventurer to harvest the raw materials they need for their chosen route.</div><hr></blockquote> Maybe he meant collection items... probably even more profitable that harvesting nodes.  <span>:smileywink:</span><div></div>

[retro_guy]

<div><blockquote><hr>Onorem wrote:Trial of the Isle players:- Cannot send /tells to players on other servers or games- Must be on someone's friends list in order to send /tells to them- Cannot trade with other players- Cannot be invited into guilds- Cannot create a guild or assist in the creation of a guild        <font color="#ccff00">  -they couldn't do this before?</font>- Cannot purchase items from the broker or from consignment vendors<font color="#ccff00">          -they couldn't do this before?</font>- Cannot list items for sale on the broker<font color="#ccff00">          -they couldn't do this before?</font>- Cannot send or receive in-game mail<font color="#ccff00">          -they couldn't do this before?</font>- Cannot talk in server-wide chat channels (level channels, class channels, etc.)<hr size="2" width="100%"><font color="#ccff00">Am I missing something?  Are they adding a broker and mailbox to the Isle?</font><div></div><hr></blockquote>From what I remember the Trial of The Isle is restricted to 7 days, but you can leave the island now, so you can test out more of the game.</div>

[mazzy]

why people continue to blame the farmers makes me giggle...the people you need to place blame on, are the ones buying in game money off line with real life money...when people STOP buying fake money with real money, these farmers you are mad at will have no reason to stay here..as for the solicitation of plat  in /tells i for one truly despise that and am glad that at least SOE is aware *after months and  a bazillion threads on it)  are trying to come up with a means to either stop it (would be awesome) or  make it more difficult for them to do so<div></div>

[Erurat]

<DIV>At least this is a start.  Now if they can get rid of the obvious bots I'll really be happy.</DIV>

[Soldross]

I think $15 out of a $XX transaction for YY Plat is pretty significant (We pretty much know the figure now don't we <span>:smileywink:</span>) This makes me even more likely to /report and /petition anyone who sends me unwanted tells for plat.All I care about is the unwanted cold tells. This will make an impact.<div></div><div></div><p>Message Edited by Soldross on <span class=date_text>08-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:40 AM</span>

[electricninjasex]

<blockquote><hr>Thicket Tundrabog wrote:<div>A T1 character cannot harvest nodes in Bonemire, period. You have to be a high level adventurer and/or a high level tradeskiller to harvest in a T7 zone. If your question is 'should a T1 adventurer (T7 tradeskiller) be able to harvest in Bonemire aggro-free?' then the answer is a resounding YES. SoE advertised two distinct progression routes, adventuring and tradeskilling. A tradeskiller should not be dependent on a high-level adventurer to harvest the raw materials they need for their chosen route.</div><hr></blockquote>So Bonemire is dominated by T7 undead from one side to the next and you're telling me Little Red Riding Hood should just be able to wander in there and pick her flowers.  That's just nonsense.  Do individual people start digging a deep hole when they need oil for their lamps or coal for their forges?  Raw material supply and manufacture are related but not the same thing.

[electricninjasex]

<blockquote><hr>LordQuaymar wrote:<div></div><p>They can't be prosecuted. Sony and Blizzard have both tried and lost.</p> <hr></blockquote>I wonder what exactly the courts said.

[Thicket Tundrabog]

<div><blockquote><hr>electricninjasex wrote:<blockquote><hr>Thicket Tundrabog wrote:<div>A T1 character cannot harvest nodes in Bonemire, period. You have to be a high level adventurer and/or a high level tradeskiller to harvest in a T7 zone. If your question is 'should a T1 adventurer (T7 tradeskiller) be able to harvest in Bonemire aggro-free?' then the answer is a resounding YES. SoE advertised two distinct progression routes, adventuring and tradeskilling. A tradeskiller should not be dependent on a high-level adventurer to harvest the raw materials they need for their chosen route.</div><hr></blockquote>So Bonemire is dominated by T7 undead from one side to the next and you're telling me Little Red Riding Hood should just be able to wander in there and pick her flowers.  That's just nonsense.  Do individual people start digging a deep hole when they need oil for their lamps or coal for their forges?  Raw material supply and manufacture are related but not the same thing.<hr></blockquote>Putting your exagerration aside, the simple answer is absolutely yes. (Reality - Careful aggro-management by a low-level adventurer/high-level tradeskiller to harvest in a dangerous area. Exagerration - Little Red Riding Hood wandering in and picking flowers.)You cannot safely harvest in most of KoS with a low level adventurer, but there are some places that it can be done. For example, the Bonemire zone-in has two aggro-free wood nodes. Not far away, you can harvest 2 dens, 2 shrubs and a number of metal nodes. You have to be very careful and avoid the basilisks, spiders and bats, but it can be done. It's certainly much more of a challenge than some Carpet-Riding, level 70 adventurer trivially wandering in and picking flowers, aggro-free on the Temple Grounds. One is work (fun), the other is mind-numbingly trivial.</div>

[electricninjasex]

<blockquote><hr>taywalt wrote:<span>As for the farmers that fund them, there is really no problem with them, they pay for their accounts and choose to farm all day. Though they may irritate me, there is nothing you can do about them.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>That is simpleton ignorance.  Do you know why we care at all about plat pharmers?  Can you even field a guess?  Do you think it's really such a benign thing of someone farting around in some backwoods with a fishing rod?If you believe you can't do anything about them, you are right.  If you believe you can eliminate them, you are also right.  It comes down to will and backbone and I won't shut up until someone steps up and shows either.

[electricninjasex]

<blockquote><hr>Thicket Tundrabog wrote:<div>You cannot safely harvest in most of KoS with a low level adventurer, but there are some places that it can be done. For example, the Bonemire zone-in has two aggro-free wood nodes. Not far away, you can harvest 2 dens, 2 shrubs and a number of metal nodes. You have to be very careful and avoid the basilisks, spiders and bats, but it can be done.</div><hr></blockquote>The way you describe that makes me think it was set up like that on accident rather than principle.

[scivias]

<div><blockquote><hr>MaryJane666 wrote:<div></div>I think what they are saying is that the person sending the tell has to be on the OTHER person's friend list.  At least that is how it looks to me cuz it says <font color="#cc00ff">Must be ON someone's friends list</font>.  I could be wrong...but that is how i interperet it.<hr></blockquote>Let's just hope that 'another one' can't be just another trial account... I'd really liked this to be someone's active subscription account.</div>

[Thicket Tundrabog]

<div><blockquote><hr>electricninjasex wrote:<blockquote><hr>Thicket Tundrabog wrote:<div>You cannot safely harvest in most of KoS with a low level adventurer, but there are some places that it can be done. For example, the Bonemire zone-in has two aggro-free wood nodes. Not far away, you can harvest 2 dens, 2 shrubs and a number of metal nodes. You have to be very careful and avoid the basilisks, spiders and bats, but it can be done.</div><hr></blockquote>The way you describe that makes me think it was set up like that on accident rather than principle.<hr></blockquote>I don't really know, but each Tier has harvesting areas that a low level adventurer can survive in. That makes me think it was intentional. Also, SoE has changed aggro mob locations in the past to make harvesting feasible.The following are the ones I've used.Tier 1 - The Isle has aggro-free access to all nodes.Tier 2 - Antonica - Oracle Tower and along the coast towards Qeynos.Tier 3 - Thundering Steppes - Karana RuinsTier 4 - Enchanted Lands near the Spires. Zek - Three Toe area.Tier 5 - Rivervale - small area near Fool's GoldTier 6 - Sinking Sands - dervish camps on beach near zone-inTier 7 - Bonemire zone-in. Barren Sky - Whisperwind. Tenebrous Tangle - Temple Grounds</div>

[Knesh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thicket Tundrabog wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> electricninjasex wrote:<BR>  or even the proven pharming method by which a T1 character can harvest nodes in Bonemire aggro-free.  Do any of these fit the game's vision?  Do they even try?<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>A T1 character cannot harvest nodes in Bonemire, period. You have to be a high level adventurer and/or a high level tradeskiller to harvest in a T7 zone. If your question is 'should a T1 adventurer (T7 tradeskiller) be able to harvest in Bonemire aggro-free?' then the answer is a resounding YES. SoE advertised two distinct progression routes, adventuring and tradeskilling. A tradeskiller should not be dependent on a high-level adventurer to harvest the raw materials they need for their chosen route.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>It clearly states on the box and intro screen that the gameplay may change at anytime. Just because there were 2 distinct routes on game launch doesn't mean that it exists today.</P> <P>As a rule of thumb now There is no way a T1 adventurer can harvest in T7. I have not heard a post in 2006 yet where SOE claimed to have 2 different paths tradeskill and Adventurer.</P>

[Thicket Tundrabog]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Knesh wrote:<div></div><blockquote>As a rule of thumb now There is no way a T1 adventurer can harvest in T7. </blockquote><hr></blockquote>Your thumb is crooked <span>:smileyhappy:</span> Been there, done that. Too bad I couldn't stay level 1 instead of just Tier 1. Location discovery experience raised my level. (Hmmmm... shoulda thought about turning off experience... darn)... and I will categorically tell you that there are two distinct routes you can take -- adventurer or tradeskiller (or both).</div><p>Message Edited by Thicket Tundrabog on <span class=date_text>08-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:57 PM</span>

[matyas]

<DIV>Ok first of, as everyone could guess, there will not be some ultimate movement that will all of a sudden decide not to buy plat from the farmers. This is just simply not going to happen when you have to many people who would rather spend money from thier wallet to get money in this world. It is funny to even consider that it would happen, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What is also funny to think about happening would be SOE banning all fo the accounts of the botters. If you consider the amount of botters spread over all the servers, and if SOE banned even 50% of them, they would loose on avg $500,000 a year if the botters did not start a new account. Now of course everyone knows that they would start a new account, but thats not the point here. SOE being a company will not risk the loss of a half a million dollars just to make a statement to farmers. Honestly I dont think they care, because it doesnt hurt thier bottom line to have botters, they make as much money from them as they do from you and me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dreams are fun, but they are dreams because they dont come true.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Corinthius 70 Necro and many alts </DIV><p>Message Edited by matyas on <span class=date_text>08-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:25 PM</span>

[Antipalad]

Congratulations, this is like treating a terminal disease with aspirin. Please do something about the oh so obvious farm teams picking zones clean of trash mobs (hint: 1 zerk, 1 wiz, 1 warlock, 1 fury or templar, all anonymous, all on carpets, pulling everything in sight.)

[Autenil-EQ2]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MaryJane666 wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> holystones wrote: Actually no the spam isnt gone. At least thats the way I read it. - Cannot send /tells to players on other servers or games -<FONT color=#ff0000> </FONT><FONT color=#cc00ff>Must be on someone's friends list in order to send /tells to them </FONT>Now lets look at that shall we. What in that phrasing could lead to getting around the changes and still spam? It says they can not send tells to to players on OTHER servers or games. Ok. but what about the server they are on when they make the char like say blackburrow? <FONT color=#ffffff>Now lets look at the second 1. </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>They can only send a tell to a person on there freinds list</FONT>. And that person on there list has to be on there server. Well hell its not rocket science. Any 3rd world rice eating [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] can figure that 1 out. Go on up to the lfg community option, do a search of all zones that automaticly gives you a list of everyone, <FONT color=#cc00ff>go ahead and type that name into ur freinds list</FONT> and what do you get? Another god dam error that will never be fixed until maby 2 lu's from now. So for the love of god fix it now. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I think what they are saying is that the person sending the tell has to be on the OTHER person's friend list.  At least that is how it looks to me cuz it says <FONT color=#cc00ff>Must be ON someone's friends list</FONT>.  I could be wrong...but that is how i interperet it. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That is correct.  If BobTrial is a Trial user and he's trying to talk to normal player Joe, Joe must have BobTrial on his Friend List in order to hear BobTrial.  Joe may freely talk to BobTrial, but he is notified that BobTrial will not be able to respond (along with a link that will add BobTrial to his Friend List if he chooses to click it).</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Onorem wrote:</P> <P>Trial of the Isle players:<BR>- Cannot send /tells to players on other servers or games<BR>- Must be on someone's friends list in order to send /tells to them<BR>- Cannot trade with other players<BR>- Cannot be invited into guilds<BR>- Cannot create a guild or assist in the creation of a guild<BR>      <FONT color=#ccff00> -they couldn't do this before?</FONT><BR>- Cannot purchase items from the broker or from consignment vendors<BR><FONT color=#ccff00>       -they couldn't do this before?</FONT><BR>- Cannot list items for sale on the broker<BR><FONT color=#ccff00>       -they couldn't do this before?</FONT><BR>- Cannot send or receive in-game mail<BR><FONT color=#ccff00>       -they couldn't do this before?</FONT><BR>- Cannot talk in server-wide chat channels (level channels, class channels, etc.)<BR><BR></P> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> <P><FONT color=#ccff00>Am I missing something?  Are they adding a broker and mailbox to the Isle?</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Let's just say that we're covering our bases.  Who knows what might happen some day?</P> <P>I'm glad to see that you guys are happy about this :smileyhappy:</P>

[Seltha-Larren]

<P>What's kinda funny though is they know they're doomed so I'm getting about 2x the amount of spam as usual now...</P> <P>So when's this hit live? hehe.</P> <P> </P>

[electricninjasex]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Seltha wrote:<div></div> <p>What's kinda funny though is they know they're doomed so I'm getting about 2x the amount of spam as usual now...</p> <p>So when's this hit live? hehe.</p> <hr></blockquote>Doomed is when the plat suppliers are stopped from making near-24/7 runs in all the places we're watching them do it in broad daylight.  The spams were just a bonus exploit to them, to which they survived prior and certainly will survive following.  Put down the pom-poms...ain't no doom to them.<p>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <span class=date_text>09-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:43 AM</span>

[Shakshirak]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Antipaladin wrote:<BR>Please do something about the oh so obvious farm teams picking zones clean of trash mobs (hint: 1 zerk, 1 wiz, 1 warlock, 1 fury or templar, all anonymous, all on carpets, pulling everything in sight.)<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What´s wrong with that??? Grouping and killing mobs is what this game is about. </DIV>

[Mulilla]

<P>Im SO happy about this change, but i was thinking about it yesterday and realized that people got used to report & petition spam mail and tells.  If you had just one spam tell from a plat seller once you might just delete it and forget about it, but since it has become a real PITA, everyone got used to report this behaviour.  What i am trying to say is that future spam mailers will have a really rough time because everyone is now used to report them, and will do so in the future = banned accounts = less spam = maybe less plat sellers.</P> <P>Nice change devs, thank you!</P>

[pera]

This is such a great change, lol yeah and i'm getting spammed like 5 times a day now becaue they know this is coming. <div></div>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>Onorem wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>jddrogs wrote:<div>LOL this is funny , just like when WOW bans almost 1 million accounts for gold farmers .. everyone like whooo whoooo thank the almight gods!!!! but then the plat farmers go and open up 3 more accounts and start all over and back in business 48hrs later.</div><div> </div><div>if they wanna do it, they will find a way, banning accounts/changing the world isnt gonna stop em. Take EQ1 for example when yantis started selling plat , everyone flammed the holy hell outta him and sony tryed crackin down on him .... and 5 years later ... omg he is STILL here and HE IS MAKIN EVEN MORE MONEY ..... </div><div> </div><div>when there is ingame currency of any kind there is gonna be farmers , deal with it or move on ..... they pay there $15 a month to farm, you pay your $15 to lvl enjoy the game/raid .. whatever .... </div><hr></blockquote>What do you think they prefer?  Free accounts that they have no fear of losing, or paying $15 for every account that someone reports?It won't stop them, but it will inconvenience them.  It will cost them some of their profits.  That's a good thing, IMO.</div><hr></blockquote>Yes and the idea is that if they have to spend $29 on the game, per account each time they get caught, then financially it starts to make ZERO sence to do things to get caught.And thats the point that some people just don't get!If SoE can make the farmers be unseen and unheard, then the rest of us should be extatic. Sure they may linger in the shadows, but as long as they don't make thenselves a niusence and get reported, then all is good.

[Beghard]

To say that it is dumb to just mass ban them is....dumb. Of course it doesnt work very well if they only do it once Fing DUH so why dont they just do it...*GASP* .. ALL THE TIME! I dont see why they dont....Mass bann...wait two or 3 pay sycles then ban them again. They could even let them play a month then when they get the next payment THEN bann them and make mre money. Very little reason to not extort them. If as people magicly say its immposible to sue or press charges on them(i doubt this is true. please sight a lagit source proving this i doubt your a lawyer specalizing in international law) what are THEY guna do? I honestly dont see why publishers/producers or who ever dont create task forces dedicated to DESTROYING these grifters because they are breaking rulls and pizzing ppl off.<div></div>

[electricninjasex]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zald wrote:If SoE can make the farmers be unseen and unheard, then the rest of us should be extatic. Sure they may linger in the shadows, but as long as they don't make thenselves a niusence and get reported, then all is good.<hr></blockquote>I've never heard a more naive stance towards plat farmers.</div>

[Dasein]

<hr size="2" width="100%">I've never heard a more naive stance towards plat farmers. <hr size="2" width="100%">Why is it naive? It seems the biggest problem with the RMT industry is the means by which the currency and items are acquired, so if the farming can be made invisible, either removed to instances or made indistinguishable from normal gameplay, then what is the problem? <div></div>

[Sarduscious]

I was among those in my guild / circle of friends on my server who were beyond excited to hear that a system was being put in place to stop the plat seller /tell spam.  Notice I said "was".Now that it's gone live,  I've not gotten a single /tell from plat sellers.  Instead I've been spammed with group invites from level 2 characters on the island.  I've suddenly started to recieve spam mail on a consistant basis via the in-game mail system.  Chat spam was annoying, but now that it's been 'temporarily' reduced, the after effects have been far more severe and disruptive. Things that need attention asap ~~ A few of the limitations for 'trial' accounts NEED to be extended to paid accounts in terms of limits on what characters on the island can or can not do.~ Characters on the island, paid accounts included, should *NOT* be able to send group invites to a level 46 character in Lavastorm ( or anywhere mainland, but you get the point )The group-invite spam is the worst.  A paying customer should not be forced to toggle the 'accept group invites' button on and off constantly -- this ruins the entire /lfg system and concept.

[Autenil-EQ2]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarduscious wrote:<BR>I was among those in my guild / circle of friends on my server who were beyond excited to hear that a system was being put in place to stop the plat seller /tell spam.  <BR><BR>Notice I said "was".<BR><BR>Now that it's gone live,  I've not gotten a single /tell from plat sellers.  Instead I've been spammed with group invites from level 2 characters on the island.  I've suddenly started to recieve spam mail on a consistant basis via the in-game mail system.  Chat spam was annoying, but now that it's been 'temporarily' reduced, the after effects have been far more severe and disruptive. <BR><BR>Things that need attention asap ~<BR><BR>~ A few of the limitations for 'trial' accounts NEED to be extended to paid accounts in terms of limits on what characters on the island can or can not do.<BR>~ Characters on the island, paid accounts included, should *NOT* be able to send group invites to a level 46 character in Lavastorm ( or anywhere mainland, but you get the point )<BR><BR>The group-invite spam is the worst.  A paying customer should not be forced to toggle the 'accept group invites' button on and off constantly -- this ruins the entire /lfg system and concept.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>We're looking into the group invite spam.  Thanks for letting us know!

[Neiloch]

<DIV>This just popped into my head, wouldn't disabling the /who commands in all forms for island people solve a lot of problems? Otherwise they would just have to either bug people they see on the island, guess names, or get them from some where like the eq2players.com site and just hope their online.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Neiloch on <span class=date_text>09-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:36 AM</span>

[HazlenutElf]

you're assuming they don't have another comp right next to them running a paid account

[nikitta28]

I give those plat sellers some credit, they really want to sell!<div></div>

[Neiloch]

<DIV>Not like 100% of them have that kind of set-up, all they really would need to do is have 2 instances of the game running on one PC to do that. This would just make it a lot harder and a whole lot less effecient for them. they aren't looking up names on a paid account then doing the spamming on the trial one right now, their just doing it all on the trial.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hopefully they fix the group thing real soon though.</DIV>

[Iari111]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HazlenutElf wrote:<BR> you're assuming they don't have another comp right next to them running a paid account<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>True.</P> <P>Today the hubby and I were playing some alts in Antonica.  A lvl 20-something ran up, stopped next to us, and continued on.  Not five seconds later, both my husband and I got tells from a lvl 1 on the Queens Colony selling plat.  /reported and /petitioned of course.  Coincidence perhaps, but perhaps not.</P><p>Message Edited by Iari111 on <span class=date_text>09-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:36 PM</span>

[Kram337]

Sadly enough, I would guess that a person actually plays a very small portion in the actual spamming. They have macro programs that do all this stuff for them, including gathering names of players.  It would be my guess that disabling the /who command wouldn't stop them from being able to get the names via  a macro.<div></div>

[Decad]

#1 rule with rules: Someone WILL always find a way around them.For example, the IT guy at my job is kind of annoying. He's also a bit of a braggart. To say that I like to mess with him and his rules (or policies) that he loves to go on about is probably an understatement. My co-workers love it too. Things I've done:1 - www.proxify.org to get around expensive server he bought and installed to keep us from going to "bad" sites. LOL, got this one through the local paper. Awesome site if you are at one of those jobs where they have a server that blocks sites.2 - downloaded CD boot disk I found through Google that retrieved his ADMIN password.3 - downloaded simple password hack program to decrypted 4 of his attempts to make thumbnail drivers and CDs that people take home safe to take home.Just something to keep in mind I think is that just as hard as you work to makes rules to prevent bad behavior, someone is working just as hard to make it easy for others to get around those rules.Now with that said, thanks for getting rid of the in-game plat selling spam. I was getting tired of replying to someone to only have it go to them by accident.

[electricninjasex]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sarduscious wrote:The group-invite spam is the worst.  A paying customer should not be forced to toggle the 'accept group invites' button on and off constantly -- this ruins the entire /lfg system and concept.<hr></blockquote>I'm gonna call bullcrap on that.  It is one thing for you to say the plat sellers shouldn't be able to do it.  But you dragged the whole player base in on this by invoking the holy name of the Entire LFG System and Concept.Should not toggle the button constantly?  What else are you gonna do, ditch the button, turn on the EQ2 Mindread feature, and use ESP to know when the group invite of your dreams comes across and automatically accept it?  What are you gonna do, add a 1 minute timeout between group invite attempts?  Will raiders not want to choke you after that?Every single group formation requires a dialog:IDIOT: Wanna join my group?YOU: NoIDIOT: Wanna join my group?YOU: NoUBERD00D: Wanna join my group?YOU: YesWhat will you do to filter out the idiots from the Uberd00dz?  (Besides ESP of course!!) Ahh the /ignore feature.  Oh wait, you pay money and shouldn't have to click a button on and off. But then how will you do dps and heals, since you're a paying player and shouldn't have to click buttons on and off?  Group invites are not a twitch reflex action, it is not unreasonable to have an on/off button to accompany an on/off logic.<p>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <span class=date_text>09-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:17 AM</span>

[dreiden]

Why not just make trial have its own completely seperate server which paying custumers can choose from server menu if they want to play trial with a friend. Don't connect it to any other server, no cross server chat or anything. Also possibly adding an option so that if a player recieves a tell they will have a way to /report it as spam. Once done the text of the tell could be copied to a database connected to that character, if that same tell is sent and /reported this way more than a certain number fo times the account could go into a state where its /tell privalages are revoked untill a gm can investigate the /tell in question, if the person is found to be a plat spammer ban the account.Also add a option menu choice that allows you to restrict group invites to people within a certain level range.<div></div>

[Kaalenarc]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Autenil wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarduscious wrote:<BR>I was among those in my guild / circle of friends on my server who were beyond excited to hear that a system was being put in place to stop the plat seller /tell spam.  <BR><BR>Notice I said "was".<BR><BR>Now that it's gone live,  I've not gotten a single /tell from plat sellers.  Instead I've been spammed with group invites from level 2 characters on the island.  I've suddenly started to recieve spam mail on a consistant basis via the in-game mail system.  Chat spam was annoying, but now that it's been 'temporarily' reduced, the after effects have been far more severe and disruptive. <BR><BR>Things that need attention asap ~<BR><BR>~ A few of the limitations for 'trial' accounts NEED to be extended to paid accounts in terms of limits on what characters on the island can or can not do.<BR>~ Characters on the island, paid accounts included, should *NOT* be able to send group invites to a level 46 character in Lavastorm ( or anywhere mainland, but you get the point )<BR><BR>The group-invite spam is the worst.  A paying customer should not be forced to toggle the 'accept group invites' button on and off constantly -- this ruins the entire /lfg system and concept.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>We're looking into the group invite spam.  Thanks for letting us know!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#ffff00>When you do so, please  take the following into consideration.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00><U><FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>It doesnt matter that they are on the isle. The isle really isnt the issue yet the players seem to think it is. I can make a lvl one character and pop him immediately off the isle</STRONG>.</FONT></U> All these restrictions on isle players are really not accomplishing much and it wont take the sellers long to figure that out.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Additionally whats to keep a plat seller from making a toon, spamming the hell out of people any way they like (take your pick email, group invites , shouting in QH, random tells.) for an hour at a time then deleting the toon altogether and creating a new one an hour later?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Patch is a step but I think we need to realize that SOE needs to take more OUT of GAME action. Change the EULA to say that by clicking "I accept" you agree to not sell in-game items for cash and that doing so makes the person liable for damages from SOE.  Then sue the crap out of the sellers until its no longer worth doing business.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>These plat companies make millions of dollars - they dont care that they have to buy an extra account or two, they operate not just in eq2 but in almost every MMO out there - meaning they have hundreds of thousands of customers oaying upwards of 100.00 a throw for coin in game. Restricting the actions of the entire playerbase isnt going to do squat. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Go after these guys where they live , in the wallet - take legal action to stop them from interfering with the operation of the game. Its your intellectual property isnt it? Or isnt that at least SOE's stance? Sony certainly must have the legal resources to go after them dont they?</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by nobe on <span class=date_text>09-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:05 AM</span>

[Tige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>nobe wrote:</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>When you do so, please  take the following into consideration.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00><U><FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>It doesnt matter that they are on the isle. The isle really isnt the issue yet the players seem to think it is. I can make a lvl one character and pop him immediately off the isle</STRONG>.</FONT></U> All these restrictions on isle players are really not accomplishing much and it wont take the sellers long to figure that out.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You can't on the Trial Account for the Island. This is what this is mainly about. The Spammers are creating new Trials (Trial) Accounts and can interact with the world. A Live Account they wouldn't do cause they just get banned and be wasted $50 or so for the account.</P> <P>This is where the Spammers are doing it...Ban the name, delete the account, make a new one again...</P> <P><A href="http://www.trialoftheisle.com/en/" target=_blank>http://www.trialoftheisle.com/en/</A></P> <P>I feel the 7 Day Trial should be on a totaly different server and have no communication with the Live Servers. If the user then buys in, his character then can be transfer to the server he chooses to just like now with moving characters but at no additional cost.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[KazzySoJaz]

<div><blockquote><hr>Tigerj wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <p></p> <hr> <p>nobe wrote:</p> <p><font color="#ffff00">When you do so, please  take the following into consideration.</font></p> <p><font color="#ffff00"><u><font color="#ff0000"><strong>It doesnt matter that they are on the isle. The isle really isnt the issue yet the players seem to think it is. I can make a lvl one character and pop him immediately off the isle</strong>.</font></u> All these restrictions on isle players are really not accomplishing much and it wont take the sellers long to figure that out.</font></p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>You can't on the Trial Account for the Island. This is what this is mainly about. The Spammers are creating new Trials (Trial) Accounts and can interact with the world. A Live Account they wouldn't do cause they just get banned and be wasted $50 or so for the account.</p> <p>This is where the Spammers are doing it...Ban the name, delete the account, make a new one again...</p> <p><a href="http://www.trialoftheisle.com/en/" target="_blank">http://www.trialoftheisle.com/en/</a></p> <p>I feel the 7 Day Trial should be on a totaly different server and have no communication with the Live Servers. If the user then buys in, his character then can be transfer to the server he chooses to just like now with moving characters but at no additional cost.</p> <hr></blockquote>Just have credit card validation, bam problem solved.</div>

[NoNameChosen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR><BR>Just have credit card validation, bam problem solved.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Some people don't have creditcards, I am one of them. I play through global collect. There is NO way SoE could ask for payment information for a free trial, will make people give weird thoughts and probably think they don't want to even try.

[KazzySoJaz]

<div><blockquote><hr>NoNameChosen wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> KazzySoJazzy wrote: <div>Just have credit card validation, bam problem solved.</div> <hr> </blockquote>Some people don't have creditcards, I am one of them. I play through global collect. There is NO way SoE could ask for payment information for a free trial, will make people give weird thoughts and probably think they don't want to even try.<hr></blockquote>If you want to play the game bad enough buy it, it is cheap nowadays here in the US anyways, comes with 30 days and you can just use a game time card.</div>

[Tasye]

Blizzard uses CC for free trial verification, and that hasn't stopped the plat farmers from spamming.<div></div>

[MaskedMart]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> nobe wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Patch is a step but I think we need to realize that SOE needs to take more OUT of GAME action. Change the EULA to say that by clicking "I accept" you agree to not sell in-game items for cash and that doing so makes the person liable for damages from SOE.  Then sue the crap out of the sellers until its no longer worth doing business.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>These plat companies make millions of dollars - they dont care that they have to buy an extra account or two, they operate not just in eq2 but in almost every MMO out there - meaning they have hundreds of thousands of customers oaying upwards of 100.00 a throw for coin in game. Restricting the actions of the entire playerbase isnt going to do squat. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Go after these guys where they live , in the wallet - take legal action to stop them from interfering with the operation of the game. Its your intellectual property isnt it? Or isnt that at least SOE's stance? Sony certainly must have the legal resources to go after them dont they?</FONT></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I completely understand your frustration as an honest paying subscriber and seeing all of this go on.  From a former extremely small time game developer that experienced an incredible amount of intellectual property theft: Most, not all, of the plat farmers are in countries that do not share the US view on intellectual property.  Most of them do not have any decent laws on the topic and if they do they don't enforce them.  One of the basic lessons of dealing with IP theft is that you spend your money fighting it where it really isn't much of a problem and don't waste your resources trying to change what can't be changed.  Another way of putting it is, "keep the honest people honest."  It is cheaper than trying to make dishonest people honest.  Taking legal action against these folks (the ones in countries that do not share our IP views) is like taking a bag of cash and lighting it on fire.  Through experience I developed and learned from others some very creative ways to limit IP theft (which is really what plat farming/selling is), but posting them here would only help the plat farmers (and off topic) and I would find it hard to believe that SOE doesn't already possess the knowledge. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The spam and plat farmers/sellers in general are definitely a problem in this game, but I would say it is worse in a few others.  The fact that SOE is actively taking steps to limit/prevent it says a lot about the character of the people. <BR></DIV>

[Sarduscious]

Thanks for the response on this, and I apologize if my initial post came across sounding a bit too frustrated.  I just wanted to add some further info on the chance you read through on potential issues that are linked to the group invite spam from lvl 2 characters =In my initial post I mentioned that as a lvl 46 character in Lavastorm I was getting the group invite spam from people on the island.  Now, on my server (AB) there is a very well known issue with goblin farmers -- it's to the point were you mention to someone how frustrated you are trying to do a guild writ in LS and people can list off the names of the exact farmers they'd seen there and had issues with two months earlier.To test a theory, myself and two other guildies went to Lavastorm at seperate times.  When the above mentioned farmers were there one-shotting any roaming goblin who came within casting range of their stationary wizard,  we recieved group invites / plat seller spam.  When the zone was clear of farmers no /tells or group invites occured.  Just a theory, but as it goes it seems a bit too likely that the LS farmers are simply doing a /who on their main farming computer, then simply sending the spam via a seperate character / account.In other words, at least from my own experience, the two issues are linked = bot farmers and plat seller spam.  I'll continue to send in my /petitions about the bot-farmers in LS ( and any other zone I find them ), but I'm glad to hear that at least steps are being taken to reduce the plat seller spam portion of the equation.<div></div>

[ke'la]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> electricninjasex wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sarduscious wrote:<BR><BR>The group-invite spam is the worst.  A paying customer should not be forced to toggle the 'accept group invites' button on and off constantly -- this ruins the entire /lfg system and concept.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm gonna call bullcrap on that.  It is one thing for you to say the plat sellers shouldn't be able to do it.  But you dragged the whole player base in on this by invoking the holy name of the Entire LFG System and Concept.<BR><BR>Should not toggle the button constantly?  What else are you gonna do, ditch the button, turn on the EQ2 Mindread feature, and use ESP to know when the group invite of your dreams comes across and automatically accept it?  What are you gonna do, add a 1 minute timeout between group invite attempts?  Will raiders not want to choke you after that?<BR><BR>Every single group formation requires a dialog:<BR><BR>IDIOT: Wanna join my group?<BR>YOU: No<BR>IDIOT: Wanna join my group?<BR>YOU: No<BR>UBERD00D: Wanna join my group?<BR>YOU: Yes<BR><BR>What will you do to filter out the idiots from the Uberd00dz?  (Besides ESP of course!!) Ahh the /ignore feature.  Oh wait, you pay money and shouldn't have to click a button on and off. But then how will you do dps and heals, since you're a paying player and shouldn't have to click buttons on and off?  Group invites are not a twitch reflex action, it is not unreasonable to have an on/off button to accompany an on/off logic.<BR> <P>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <SPAN class=date_text>09-03-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:17 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Personally I think that someone you have on your ignore list should not beable to send you a group invite. Also I beleave that you should be required to have a fully paid account to beable to /invite cross zone. Meaning if your on the trial you can invite other people on the isle into your group but thats it.

[Dasein]

<hr size="2" width="100%"><font color="#ffff00">Patch is a step but I think we need to realize that SOE needs to take more OUT of GAME action. Change the EULA to say that by clicking "I accept" you agree to not sell in-game items for cash and that doing so makes the person liable for damages from SOE.  Then sue the crap out of the sellers until its no longer worth doing business.</font><hr size="2" width="100%">Just because it is in the EULA doesn't mean it would stand up in court. Further, it is doubtful an actual IP violation is taking place as one is currently allowed to transfer items and coin from one character to another in game. Merely setting an out of game condition for that transfer to occur doesn't suddenly make it an IP violation. <div></div>

[Rijacki]

<div><blockquote><hr>Caswydian wrote:<hr size="2" width="100%"><font color="#ffff00">Patch is a step but I think we need to realize that SOE needs to take more OUT of GAME action. Change the EULA to say that by clicking "I accept" you agree to not sell in-game items for cash and that doing so makes the person liable for damages from SOE.  Then sue the crap out of the sellers until its no longer worth doing business.</font><hr size="2" width="100%">Just because it is in the EULA doesn't mean it would stand up in court. Further, it is doubtful an actual IP violation is taking place as one is currently allowed to transfer items and coin from one character to another in game. Merely setting an out of game condition for that transfer to occur doesn't suddenly make it an IP violation. <div></div><hr></blockquote>It doesn't need to be added to the EUAL since it has been part of the EULA since the release of the game (or even before that).From the EULA (posted on EQ2Players at <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/support_article.vm?label=EQIIEULA" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/support_article.vm?label=EQIIEULA</a>).  <font color="#ff0000">Highlighting</font> is mine.  Bolding or CAPs is theirs.<p>THIS AGREEMENT DESCRIBES THE TERMS ON WHICH SONY ONLINE ENTERTAINMENT INC. ("<b>SOE</b>") OFFERS YOU ACCESS TO AN ACCOUNT (THE "<b>ACCOUNT</b>") TO PLAY THE EVERQUEST II FANTASY ONLINE ROLE PLAYING COMPUTER GAME AND ITS EXPANSION PACKS (INDIVIDUALLY AND COLLECTIVELY, THE "<b>GAME</b>"). BY PRESSING THE "I ACCEPT" BUTTON, YOU ACCEPT THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS BELOW. BY PRESSING THE "DECLINE" BUTTON, YOU DECLINE OUR OFFER, IN WHICH CASE YOU SHOULD CONTACT YOUR PLACE OF PURCHASE REGARDING ITS RETURN POLICY FOR THE APPLICABLE PRODUCT. If you have any questions regarding these terms and conditions, please contact customer service at <a href="mailto:[email protected]" target=_blank>[email protected]</a>.</p> <p>Certain servers have been designated as enabled for transactions through Station Exchange – all such transactions and eligibility to participate in them are also governed by the Station Exchange Service Agreement (the “Exchange Agreement”). <font color="#ff0000">You agree that SOE retains the unfettered right to modify its games and all aspects of characters, items and coin (collectively, “Virtual Goods”) therein. </font>You acknowledge that SOE has been, is, and will be constantly making changes to its games. You further acknowledge that SOE can and will, in its discretion, modify features, functions or abilities of any element of the game or any Virtual Goods (which may, among other things, make the Virtual Goods substantially more effective or functional, or less effective or functional, more common or less common, or eliminated entirely). </p><b>YOU PROMISE, THEREFORE, THAT YOU WILL NEVER ASSERT OR BRING ANY CLAIM OR SUIT AGAINST SOE, ITS LICENSOR(S), ANY SONY COMPANY, OR ANY EMPLOYEES OF ANY OF THE ABOVE, WHICH IS RELATED TO OR BASED ON (I) A CLAIM THAT YOU “OWN” ANY VIRTUAL GOODS IN ANY GAME, (II) A CLAIM FOR THE “VALUE” OF VIRTUAL GOODS IF SOE DELETES THEM (AND/OR TERMINATES YOUR ACCOUNT(S)) IF YOU OR ANYONE ACTING IN CONCERT WITH YOU VIOLATES ANY PROVISION OF THE EXCHANGE AGREEMENT, THIS AGREEMENT, THE GAME’S RULES OF CONDUCT, SOE’S TERMS OF SERVICE AND/OR SOE’S PRIVACY POLICY (ALL OF WHICH ARE POSTED AT A LINK AT WWW.EVERQUEST2.COM), (III) A CLAIM FOR THE “VALUE” OF VIRTUAL GOODS THAT YOU MAY LOSE IF SOE DOES ANYTHING THAT IT IS ENTITLED TO DO PURSUANT TO ANY PROVISION OF THE EXCHANGE AGREEMENT, THIS AGREEMENT, THE GAME’S RULES OF CONDUCT, SOE’S TERMS OF SERVICE AND/OR SOE’S PRIVACY POLICY, OR FOR ANY MALFUNCTIONS AND/OR “BUGS” IN THE GAME, AND/OR (IV) A CLAIM THAT THE “VALUE” OF ANY VIRTUAL GOODS HAS INCREASED OR DECREASED BY VIRTUE OF ANY GAME MODIFICATION THAT SOE HAS MADE OR WILL MAKE . ALL OF THE ABOVE APPLIES WHETHER ON AN EXCHANGE ENABLED SERVER OR ON A NON-EXCHANGE ENABLED SERVER.</b> <p>1. Accounts are available only to adults or, in their discretion, their minor child. If you are a minor, your parent(s) or guardian(s) must complete the registration process, in which case they will take full responsibility for all obligations under this Agreement. By clicking the "I Accept" button and providing us with a credit card number, you represent that you are an adult and are either accepting this Agreement on behalf of yourself or your child. <font color="#ff0000">You may not transfer or share your Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one child to use the Account instead of you (in which case you may not use that Account). </font>You are liable for all activities conducted through the Account, and parents or guardians are liable for the activities of their child. Corporations and other entities are not eligible to procure Accounts.</p><p>7. Subject to the terms of this Agreement, we hereby grant to you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, revocable license to use the Software solely in connection with playing the Game via an authorized and fully-paid Account. You may not copy (except to make one necessary back-up copy), distribute, sell, auction, rent, lease, loan, modify or create derivative works, adapt, translate, perform, display, sublicense or transfer all or any portion of the Software. You may not copy any of the written, digital or electronic materials accompanying the Software unless we expressly permit you to do so in writing, and then only to the extent permitted. You may not reverse engineer, disassemble or decompile the Software except to the extent that this restriction is expressly prohibited by applicable law. The Software may contain license management software that restricts your use of the Software.</p> <p>8. We and our suppliers shall retain all rights, title and interest, including, without limitation, ownership of all intellectual property rights relating to or residing in the CD-ROM, the Software and the Game, all copies thereof, and all game character data in connection therewith. <font color="#ff0000">You acknowledge and agree that you have not and will not acquire or obtain any intellectual property or other rights, including any right of exploitation, of any kind in or to the CD-ROM, the Software or the Game, including, without limitation, in any artwork, music, character(s), item(s), coin(s) or other material or property, and/or any compilation or copyrightable arrangement of any of the above (collectively, “</font><font color="#ff0000"><b>Rights</b></font><font color="#ff0000">”), and that all such property, material, items and Rights are exclusively owned by us – except solely as SOE may permit you to exploit Virtual Goods in connection with Station Exchange.</font> </p> <p>9. You may not use any software to modify the Software to change Game play. You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators. You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between client and server and you may not use, post, host or distribute macros, “bots” or other programs which would allow unattended game play or which otherwise impact game play. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. <font color="#ff0000">Except in connection with Station Exchange and subject to all of the provisions of the Station Exchange Service Agreement, you may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Game account, characters, items, coin or copyrighted material or any other intellectual property owned or controlled by us or our licensors without first obtaining our express written permission.</font></p><p>---</p><p>There is also information about remedy of legal actions (theirs or a customers) regarding various terms.  </p><p>The biggest problem, though, is not that they can't take a civil suit against plat sellers, it's that those sellers are often based in countries which do not acknowledge intellectual property rights (or at least don't enforce their own laws regarding them).  It is possible, too, to have a business wholey in the US but chartered or incorporated in another place as a protective shield.  It's a tactic long used by scammers in other endeavors (such as real estate).  </p><p>In addition, the courts really are behind the available technology and that gap is growing bigger.  It's one of the reasons identity theft got so prevalent and was little prosecuted for a long while.</p></div>

[Dasein]

If SOE wanted to, it could find RMTs in the US. IGE also has offices in the US. China has IP laws, and actually has far more legal precedent dealing with virtual property cases and takes MMOs far more seriously than the US does. <div></div>

[Sarduscious]

<div><blockquote><hr>electricninjasex wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sarduscious wrote:The group-invite spam is the worst.  A paying customer should not be forced to toggle the 'accept group invites' button on and off constantly -- this ruins the entire /lfg system and concept.<hr></blockquote>I'm gonna call bullcrap on that.  It is one thing for you to say the plat sellers shouldn't be able to do it.  But you dragged the whole player base in on this by invoking the holy name of the Entire LFG System and Concept.Should not toggle the button constantly?  What else are you gonna do, ditch the button, turn on the EQ2 Mindread feature, and use ESP to know when the group invite of your dreams comes across and automatically accept it?  What are you gonna do, add a 1 minute timeout between group invite attempts?  Will raiders not want to choke you after that?Every single group formation requires a dialog:IDIOT: Wanna join my group?YOU: NoIDIOT: Wanna join my group?YOU: NoUBERD00D: Wanna join my group?YOU: YesWhat will you do to filter out the idiots from the Uberd00dz?  (Besides ESP of course!!) Ahh the /ignore feature.  Oh wait, you pay money and shouldn't have to click a button on and off. But then how will you do dps and heals, since you're a paying player and shouldn't have to click buttons on and off?  Group invites are not a twitch reflex action, it is not unreasonable to have an on/off button to accompany an on/off logic.<p>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <span class="date_text">09-03-2006</span> <span class="time_text">02:17 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>First off, you obviously didn't understand the point I was making.Secondly you must be in support of bot-farmers and plat-seller spam to post such a rude reply to my comments.A ~ If a player *anywhere* in Norrath, no matter their level is getting group invite spam from a level 2 character who's still on the island they have two options.  Put each of those players on ignore, yet that doesn't solve the problem.  The only way to stop getting group invites spammed by plat-sellers is to toggle off accepting group invites.B ~ If you want to /lfg and join a group you need to be able to accept group invites.  If you toggle it off between each and every group to avoid plat-sellers spamming you with invites, it creates the above described situation where it becomes disruptive to gameplay, end of story.If that's somehow hard to understand or you don't agree with what Im saying, please be civil and not so rude with your responses / criticisms in the future.  Thanks.</div>

[electricninjasex]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Sarduscious wrote:<div> First off, you obviously didn't understand the point I was making.Secondly you must be in support of bot-farmers and plat-seller spam to post such a rude reply to my comments.</div><hr></blockquote>Yes, anyone who reads my vitriol knows for certain that I am pro-platseller in all its ways and forms.<blockquote><hr>Sarduscious wrote:<div>A ~ If a player *anywhere* in Norrath, no matter their level is getting group invite spam from a level 2 character who's still on the island they have two options.  Put each of those players on ignore, yet that doesn't solve the problem.  The only way to stop getting group invites spammed by plat-sellers is to toggle off accepting group invites.B ~ If you want to /lfg and join a group you need to be able to accept group invites.  If you toggle it off between each and every group to avoid plat-sellers spamming you with invites, it creates the above described situation where it becomes disruptive to gameplay, end of story.</div><hr></blockquote>It's one thing to want to add restrictions to the group-inviting capability of plat-selling n00bz.  But when you are vaguely hinting (or hey, maybe it's direct and deliberate) at faulting the Accept Group Invites functionality itself, then we have a problem.<blockquote><hr>Sarduscious wrote:<div>If that's somehow hard to understand or you don't agree with what Im saying, please be civil and not so rude with your responses / criticisms in the future.  Thanks.</div><hr></blockquote>That was sarcasm.  You don't want to see me rude.</div><p>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <span class=date_text>09-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:19 AM</span>