This is a nice change on test for soloers... [Archive]

Leawyn

08-19-2006, 12:02 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> interstellarmatter wrote:<BR> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Experience Changes ***<BR><BR></FONT></STRONG>- While we feel that solo quests can be quite rewarding, we were not satisfied with the experience from solo combat alone, especially for those characters who prefer to target slightly lower creatures. Therefore, we have increased the experience earned in the following situations:<BR> * Non-Heroic creature experience has been increased slightly.<BR> * Experience for blue con creatures has been increased slightly.<BR><STRONG><FONT color=#66ff00> * Experience for green con creatures has been increased significantly.<BR></FONT></STRONG>- In addition, we also wanted to increase the reward for defeating the nastier foes you meet during raids. Therefore, epic creature experience has been increased significantly.<BR><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like the idea of getting decent xp off solo mobs. Might make those times that I can't find a group more pleasant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>My main problem is the line highlighted above. Ok, its good for troubs and templars to get more experience for what they perceive is the only thing they can kill (admittedly I haven't leveled either class beyond level 8, so I can't speak from experience) but in the end this is only going to facilitate powerleveling, and make it easier for morons who don't know how to play their class to get to 70 without ever seeing another soul. Because now they can kill ridiculously easy monsters (low greens) and get "significantly more" experience than they did before.<BR>

ChaosUndivided

08-19-2006, 12:10 AM

What Leawyn Said. It's just gonna promote people taking on greens and blues instead of challenging encounters, what they should have done is increased solo xp for yellows.

Krontak

08-19-2006, 12:14 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Leawyn wrote:</P> <P>My main problem is the line highlighted above. Ok, its good for troubs and templars to get more experience for what they perceive is the only thing they can kill (admittedly I haven't leveled either class beyond level 8, so I can't speak from experience) but in the end this is only going to facilitate powerleveling, and make it easier for morons who don't know how to play their class to get to 70 without ever seeing another soul. Because now they can kill ridiculously easy monsters (low greens) and get "significantly more" experience than they did before.<BR><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Morons will never go away. That's what the /ignore function is for. </P> <P>Power level'ers always seem to find a way to power level it seems. We haven't even seen what % increase we're talking about yet so I'm going to hold off on judging this change.</P> <P>I also like the increase for raid xp for those that haven't hit the cap yet and are in the raids.<BR></P>

Triple Black

08-19-2006, 12:17 AM

<DIV>I have been working on a Coercer and I can say that as a soloer becuase of my timeframe, this kinda of change will all me to keep up with my guildmates.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do try and group with a few who are around my level but they have a bit more time then I do and are out leveling me. Now, I am not out there just grinding, I am doing quests in Nek Forest, Commonland and Thundering Steppes. I do not want to grind, however, for the time when I am 10 to 15% from level I'll go charm a nice juicey critter and just lay waste to green and blue mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it is a good change.</DIV>

Supp

08-19-2006, 12:31 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> interstellarmatter wrote:<BR> <P>I agree that lvling is too fast in groups. I can make 2 or 3 levels in a night with a group. Have you tried soloing in your 40s or 50s? XP from solo mobs is very low. If anything, they need to boost that and nerf xp from heroics.</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by interstellarmatter on <SPAN class=date_text>08-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:32 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I suppose that depends on what you consider a solo mob. I'm a two boxer myself and my lowbie alts always kill ^^^ yellows solo mobs. I dont think anything will change for me in relation to this. </P> <P>And besides, what in the heck does "significantly more" mean anyway? Is that like "Less Tar" on the Marlboro billboard?</P>

Melchiah

08-19-2006, 12:35 AM

I don't know about you, but I pay my $15/mo to play by myself.

CoLD MeTaL

08-19-2006, 01:25 AM

I hope that Game Nerf 27 does indeed have these changes.For those who say leveling is *TOO FAST*, i would point to my level 59 warlock, that I started in january 2006, and is not yet 70. *Gasp* 9 months of playing to get to level 59 is TOO FAST?!?!?!?!?!?!Now i will point out that i have beaten 613 or so warlocks on my werver to level 59.XP past level 40 is SO SLOW that it is ridiculous, this probably won't be enough, but it is a step in the right direction.

TaleraRis

08-19-2006, 01:31 AM

I think it's a good thing. This gives a little more value to questing, because most quests I end up able to do involve green and blue solo mobs. There's an extra little perk to those quests now, that will give you a bit more xp while you do it, and that can help you along. I've spent entire nights killing blues in Everfrost to complete quests and don't end up with anywhere near as much experience as I would get in a group for that same amount of time. Solo xp is very slow, slower I imagine if you just grind, but even for those of us who quest it can take a while. Also, remember that the last time they upgraded the experience on mobs, the no arrow mobs, they increased the difficulty. Who's to say this won't happen on these as well? <div></div>

TraabFellhamm

08-19-2006, 01:33 AM

Just as an example of why the significant increase for greens might not be so bad. I do alot of trash farming for easy cash with my lowbie conjuror. It takes somewhere around 10-12 greens, all in linked groups, just to get almost 1% exp at 21. Thats while getting the double exp bonus as well btw. I dont even want to think about how bad it gets at the higher levels when things really start to slow down. Id be interested to see how this works out. I mean, if I can go farm some decent cash AND get more than total garbage for exp, thats all to the good. Personally, I dont have downtime while fighting linked yellows so far, and thats WAY more exp for time spent so i dont think ill be hunting blues and greens for my main exp because of this change any time soon.

HomeChicken

08-19-2006, 02:29 AM

<DIV>yah this is gonna help the few classes out there that cant solo very well, sweet for them, but for EVERYONE else in the game all that it will do is make it that much easier to blaze through the levels</DIV> <DIV>and i guarantee you there are more classes that can solo well than there are that cant</DIV> <DIV>so you help out the few people that REALLY should be in a group in the first place, and give a huge hand up for the people that can blow through non heroic mobs solo like it was a joke</DIV> <DIV>and yah there are people out there who spent a long time playing this game and arent max level yet, but fact of the matter is you obviously DONT WANT to be max level in 9 months of play, or else you would be</DIV> <DIV>when i have seen people plow from 1-70 in about a month of playing a few hours a day, hard to argue that its hard to level</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Cynto

08-19-2006, 02:40 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> interstellarmatter wrote:<BR> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Experience Changes ***<BR><BR></FONT></STRONG>- While we feel that solo quests can be quite rewarding, we were not satisfied with the experience from solo combat alone, especially for those characters who prefer to target slightly lower creatures. Therefore, we have increased the experience earned in the following situations:<BR> * Non-Heroic creature experience has been increased slightly.<BR> * Experience for blue con creatures has been increased slightly.<BR> * Experience for green con creatures has been increased significantly.<BR><STRONG><U><FONT color=#66ff00>- In addition, we also wanted to increase the reward for defeating the nastier foes you meet during raids. Therefore, epic creature experience has been increased significantly.<BR></FONT></U></STRONG><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like the idea of getting decent xp off solo mobs. Might make those times that I can't find a group more pleasant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Personally I think the section I highlighted above is the funniest part of the whole thing. Wasn't it about 9 months or so ago, when DoF came out, that the devs totally freaked out about how much exp Epics were giving, and nerfed the hell out of the exp they gave to raids so that people couldn't get decent exp and level by just raiding? Personally, I don't care one way or the other, but I remember how [Removed for Content] a lot of raiders were on my server when that came through, and now they're going to revert at least part of it just for the hell of it?</P> <P>As for the rest of it, ah well, at least it will make it easier to level up my alts later on. Not like there are enough people joining this game every day to actually cause a problem with new idiots getting to 70 and not knowing how to play their class. :p<BR></P>

mellowknees72

08-19-2006, 03:07 AM

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> interstellarmatter wrote:<BR> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Experience Changes ***<BR><BR></FONT></STRONG>- While we feel that solo quests can be quite rewarding, we were not satisfied with the experience from solo combat alone, especially for those characters who prefer to target slightly lower creatures. Therefore, we have increased the experience earned in the following situations:<BR> * Non-Heroic creature experience has been increased slightly.<BR> * Experience for blue con creatures has been increased slightly.<BR> * Experience for green con creatures has been increased significantly.<BR>- In addition, we also wanted to increase the reward for defeating the nastier foes you meet during raids. Therefore, epic creature experience has been increased significantly.<BR><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like the idea of getting decent xp off solo mobs. Might make those times that I can't find a group more pleasant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm a two-boxer, small group/duo type person. I am really excited to see this go live. I get very little experience per kill, regardless of the con color.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For those whose opinion is that exp is too fast already, disable your combat xp for a while so I can catch up! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

Cowdenic

08-19-2006, 07:05 AM

<P>Well in a true risk vs. reward world, xp and loot would be nerfed hard from heroics, and raised through the roof for epics.</P> <P>If that isnt your play style. Oh well. You have it available. Isnt that what all the groupers say?</P>

Anterra

08-19-2006, 08:18 AM

<DIV>Keep things civil please. I've cleaned this thread up. Refrain from flames and personal attacks, or I'll have to lock this.</DIV>

Maroger

08-19-2006, 08:54 AM

Cowdenic

08-19-2006, 09:47 AM

<P>I am personally glad to see some improvements on this front. My hopes is that all xp is tweaked upwards minus heroic xp. Solo xp has been horrible in the 40's, I know right now because I am xping yet another 2 characters up, and while one is in his teens the other is a nice respectable 43. </P> <P>Yes I have an alt problem, and no you cannot comment on it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

Ravaan

08-19-2006, 10:18 AM

<DIV>I don't understand the "leveling is too fast" crowd. why do you care? if you have your level 70 great why shouldn't others have a level 70 also. thats basically when the game becomes fun anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its not like there is a competition going around or anything, or maybe you are just trying to keep your l33t 3-p33n growing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Leawyn

08-19-2006, 11:26 AM

<blockquote><hr>Ravaan wrote:<div>I don't understand the "leveling is too fast" crowd. why do you care? if you have your level 70 great why shouldn't others have a level 70 also. thats basically when the game becomes fun anyway.</div> <div> </div> <div>Its not like there is a competition going around or anything, or maybe you are just trying to keep your l33t 3-p33n growing.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>It has absolutely nothing to do with my or anyone elses [Removed for Content]. It has to do with the fact that the game is getting top-heavy. In case you haven't been there, let me explain what a level 70 who groups often does. POA, one of 4 or 5 group instances, some crafting, some harvesting, maybe some questing, or grinding of AA's. Once you get your 50 AA's, you still have the instances for loot if you haven't gotten it all already, crafting if you haven't already maxed that too. Oh yeah, and Claymore, if you can stand going back to SOS until you just want to scream. If you raid, you get it a little easier, as there are now 5 or 6 other instances that you get to visit on a weekly basis, and a few contested to mix it up. But basically, even with all that, the best of the best get raiding done over 2 or 3 nights, then spend the rest of the time leveling alts, farming instances, or shaking things up in 60-69. You will get bored at lvl 70. Because its the same things, over and over, every day. The same 4 or 5 instances, the same zones, the same thing, OVER AND OVER AND OVER. I want level 70 on my coercer so I can start raiding on her. I leveled up pretty fast, aiming for lvl 70 in under 3 months. Its not lightning fast, but as someone who started brand new on a new server with no characters to twink me, I think i've done a pretty bang up job. I can see how someone just picking up the game for the first time would miss out on alot of the things I did on my first char (and the 3 since then that i leveled to end game). I'm sorry but leveling is too easy. I've done it 3 times over now. A necro to 60 when that was the cap. A pally to 70 with 50 aa's, and now this coercer is 67, aiming to be 70 by next weekend. It took me 4 years on EQ1 to create an alt that i could level up to end game (and that in itself took me nearly 9 months). And I've done it here 3 times already, in less than 2 years. Don't get me wrong... I love EQ2. I love the game and i love seeing it from all the different angles I have seen it from. But leveling is ridiculously easy now. Well it always has been, its just easier than ever now.<div></div>

Deson

08-19-2006, 11:58 AM

I'm hoping EoF helps some of that top heavyness. Not so much with 60-70 content but in adding compeling content at all levels to make me want to mentor more. I'll never take a spot from a level appropriate player but if I see a few requests for compelling_content_area05 I'm jumping in. I think alot of bored upper level players underutilize mentoring. I'm also hoping they come up with some form of zone delevling system that drops players to the zone average. That of course would require alot of work to prevent farming but still, it's a nice thought.<div></div>

TaleraRis

08-19-2006, 11:59 AM

Those who are going to rush are going to rush no matter how fast or slow it is to level. I've played this character since May of 2005, and I've been a player since release. I don't have a 70 yet. It hasn't fit my playstyle to be 70 yet. But if someone wants to be 70, they're going to be 70, and unless they set out to just powerlevel their way there then there's a good chance if they have to *play* the entire time, even if it's shorter, they're going to at least have some sort of grasp on their class. So that's my comments on that previously mentioned reasoning. As far as the game getting top-heavy, it is, but don't think it's exclusive to EQ2. EQ1 was just as bad. The servers were top heavy when 50 was the limit, when 60 was the limit, now with 70 the limit (and I believe it's going up 5 levels next expansion) because of the overwhelming idea that the game begins at "X" level. That's the culprit of why the game is top-heavy, not how fast or slow leveling goes. It's this belief throughout MMOGs that life doesn't begin for you until you're in such and such place and at such and such level. The place and level in EQ1 changed, but the sentiment was still the same. Until that changes, being against an easier time at lower levels and trying to place responsibility for the game being top-heavy on the shoulders of easier leveling, is just faulty logic. <div></div>

Kizee

08-19-2006, 03:37 PM

<P>I think it is stupid they are making solo exp better. Alot of people don't group as it is....NOBODY will group if you can get just as good exp solo chain killing green and blue solo mobs.</P> <P>IMO leveling is way to fast in this game as it is. I miss the old days of EQ1 where your level ment something. When you saw a level 50 in EQ1 you know he worked to get there.<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> TaleraRis wrote:<BR> The servers were top heavy when 50 was the limit, when 60 was the limit, now with 70 the limit (and I believe it's going up 5 levels next expansion) because of the overwhelming idea that the game begins at "X" level. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Level cap isn not being raised in next expansion.

Caethre

08-19-2006, 03:52 PM

<P><FONT color=#ff6600>OOC.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>These changes on Test look good, indeed, they look very good.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>As a primarily small group and solo style player, whos primary character is a Templar, I have done a significant amount of my levelling fighting blue and green con mobs. Indeed, because I love the quest content and spend a lot of time completing most of the quests that I possibly can (that I can solo or do in a duo or trio at most), I often end up needing to fight large numbers of green con mobs. Yet, even with my truely immense playtime on my primary character, I am still quite a way from 70/70/50.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Now, this is not a complaint, and I love EQII, but this change is a good one to allow those of us who enjoy such content and such a playstyle, to do so and still make a sensible amount of progress in a reasonable time.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Those few folks saying "levelling is already too easy" are the same playstyle who always say that. The baseless complaint about "dumbing down", continually repeated but by a very small section of the playerbase remains essentially untrue for the rest of us. There are many players who prefer to operate in small groups and solo, and it is not the place of those who do not choose to play that way, to criticize or insult those of other playstyles. EQII is about all playstyles, not just theirs.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>For me I can say, levelling has never been "too easy", and I applaud the changes, especially to green-con mob XP, which many of those here clearly have little idea just how bad it actually is.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Those who love raiding and hardcore full groups, and spend their time at 70/50 doing instances, will not be affected whatsoever by the changes to XP from green-con mobs, so the reason for their complaining about that change just comes across (to me anyway) as a put-down of the playstyle of other players. It comes across as insulting, and causes message board drama as a result. Tell me, why bother? Enjoy your own gaming, and let those of us who will enjoy this change, do so.</FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote:<BR><BR> <P>In case you haven't been there, let me explain what a level 70... <FONT color=#ff6600><snip></FONT> ... You will get bored at lvl 70. Because its the same things, over and over, every day. The same 4 or 5 instances, the same zones, the same thing, OVER AND OVER AND OVER.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Why? I mean, why do the same things "OVER AND OVER AND OVER" (the emphasis was yours)? Who is <U>forcing</U> you to?</FONT></P><FONT color=#ff6600> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>But leveling is ridiculously easy now. Well it always has been, its just easier than ever now.</FONT></P> <P>That is an opinion from one specific perspective, but it is not the "truth", no matter how many times a few players from one specific playstyle may repeat it.</P></FONT> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>If you as an individual were not enjoying the game anymore, I could respect that, and if you play so much and always go for the "most efficient" route meaning you personally level much faster than those around you, and so you are bored of alts, why keep doing it? I do not mean to be harsh, but there are other games, and there are other activities not using the computer that you can spend your time on.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>However, if as you claim, you still enjoy EQII, y</FONT><FONT color=#ff6600>es, you can play as and when you want, absolutely, but again, why slam an idea that has <U>absolutely no effect</U> on you (according to the playstyle your describe for yourself) but which will help and will be loved by thousands of other players? Can you not see how your posting such a view would come across as selfish?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>The </FONT><FONT color=#ff6600>game developers have stated on numerous occasions, that EQII is not aimed at players who are attempting to charge past all the content and therefore are chomping at the bit at 70/70/50 as soon as they can be. That demographic is, statistically speaking, very tiny. They are aiming at core gamers, those who log on a couple of hours most days and play at normal rates through normal content, in a variety of playstyles, and the feedback they are getting from those who solo and small-group play (not from those who raid heavily) is that levelling is too slow for those playstyles, and so they are addressing that feedback.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Good on SOE for listening, is what I say!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Your criticism really comes across not as a criticism of this change per say, but as a criticism of that entire playstyle. That is why it attracts so much drama when people post things like you have here.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>I suggest you enjoy the game the way you enjoy it, and pretty much ignore this change, as it will not affect you. Oh yes, a few casual-style players will actually make the level cap who otherwise may not have, and get to see more of the game and experience more of the content than they would have, because they will not have to spend as much of their time getting very little XP for killing green-con mobs (which is what many of us still have to do regularly at level 70!), but again, that is hardly going to affect you and your friends doing your instances "OVER and OVER and OVER" as you put it.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Enjoy your gaming, but allow the rest of us to make feedback to improve ours. Thank you.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Well done SOE!</FONT><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ff6600>Felishanna.<BR></FONT><p>Message Edited by Caethre on <span class=date_text>08-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:01 PM</span>

Lera

08-19-2006, 04:53 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Deson wrote:I'm hoping EoF helps some of that top heavyness. Not so much with 60-70 content but in adding compeling content at all levels to make me want to mentor more. I'll never take a spot from a level appropriate player but if I see a few requests for compelling_content_area05 I'm jumping in. I think alot of bored upper level players underutilize mentoring. I'm also hoping they come up with some form of zone delevling system that drops players to the zone average. That of course would require alot of work to prevent farming but still, it's a nice thought.<div></div><hr></blockquote>New content at lower levels would be a great change, although it should be accessible to characters of all levels (meaning no quests that you can only get from chests - quest starters should be body drops, and I hope they change that in all zones). But, even if the mobs are grey, there's nothing stopping people from going back and doing old quests just for the content. Sure, there's no XP, but at level 70, you're not getting XP anyway. I also like your de-leveling system idea - basically self-mentoring (without the bonus). That would allow people to do more quests and have a challenge without having to find a low-level group to drag along. There's a couple books I'd like to find in Blackburrow, but most groups aren't likely to want to spend hours waiting for that chest to drop.I like the change to solo XP. I prefer to solo, or to group with guildmates, although they're not always available. With pickup groups, you never know what you're going to get, and they're rarely roleplay groups. Not all classes can rush through heroic mobs, and they really nerfed the paladin in LU13. Grey ^^^ heroics take quite a while to kill, and I usually run out of power, and green ^^^ - don't even think about it. Maybe I need better gear, but I think they've placed way too much emphasis on gear (and have you seen the prices on rare ores lately?) Increasing solo XP is a very welcome change.</div>

Druzgotek

08-19-2006, 05:14 PM

<P>I like these changes if they make noticeable difference. I sometimes play a berzerker, warlock and an assassin who are all around level fourty. It is kind of painful, basically takes me six or eight hours to gain level and a half, and they are decently geared and only kill mobs of their level plus minus one level. That is with vitae. I never play without vitae because it is so slow.</P> <P>I only join groups if someone asks me, and so far it has happened only once. I consider groups to be more of a hassle than a benefit. I would try my best to join them if I was in a race to level cap. I did join groups with my inquisitor, and I am still burned out on that.</P> <P>Great change if it makes a noticeable difference, which I seriously doubt it will.</P>

Deila

08-19-2006, 05:37 PM

<P> </P> <P>Why do some posters in this thread seem to assume that an increase to XP for blue and green solo mobs means that it makes it the same as XP gained from group content? Or that the increases will put blues and greens on par with yellow con solo mobs? Nowhere in the notes did I see anything to suggest any of those things.</P> <P>'Increase', and even 'substantially increase' doesn't necessarily mean 'as much or more as something else that wasn't mentioned'. Just making up numbers - if a yellow con solo mob was worth 50 XP, a blue con mob worth 8 XP and a green worth 1 XP before, changing blue to be worth 10 and green to be worth 3 would be an increase (8 to 10 for blue) and a substantial increase (1 to 3 for green - tripling the previous XP) - they'd still not be as rewarding as the yellow con by a long shot - yet still satisfy the statement made for the patch.</P> <P>A bit too much speculation and wild fears in this thread, methinks, and not enough trying and testing to see how it's really playing out before panic strikes some in the masses. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P>

Erurat

08-19-2006, 06:00 PM

/em pukes

SniperKitty

08-19-2006, 07:42 PM

<FONT color=#cc0000>Woohoo! This is great. I love playing alts and have a wide variety of them scattered across various levels, but I get tired of seeing the same crap over and over. Being able to rush through the levels would allow me to take different paths to the same goal. For example, I could do Antonica/Blackburrow/TS/RoV on one character. Antonica/Stormhold/Nektulos/NecroLair/Bloodlines on another. It'll keep the game from getting stagnant and repetitive on alts.</FONT>

Deson

08-19-2006, 07:58 PM

<div></div><div></div>The speculation and worry comes because you can mow through most blue and greens. Yellow cons, due to the level difference, are a real challenge.In the time I can kill a single yellow con(including refresh timers and recoup time) I can roll through both of blue and green cons like they aren't even there. Near as I can tell, loot isnt affected by con either so the windfall of such a change if done improperly could result in a solo Harclave effect. While I too spend almost all my time solo, this is a game built around grouping and if it ends up not being rewarding in comparison, there will be no compelling reason to group and thus alot of wasted content. Oh sure, groups get legendary/fabled and such but if all you do is solo, mastercrafted is just fine-even for yellows. It's also significantly cheaper if you die heh.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Deson on <span class="date_text">08-20-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:59 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Deson on <span class=date_text>08-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:00 AM</span>

Maroger

08-19-2006, 08:11 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>I think it is stupid they are making solo exp better. Alot of people don't group as it is....NOBODY will group if you can get just as good exp solo chain killing green and blue solo mobs.</P> <P>IMO leveling is way to fast in this game as it is. I miss the old days of EQ1 where your level ment something. When you saw a level 50 in EQ1 you know he worked to get there.<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Level cap isn not being raised in next expansion.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>Have you considered returning to EQ1 and playing on one of the new Progression servers?<BR>

Sunrayn

08-19-2006, 08:22 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>I think it is stupid they are making solo exp better. <STRONG>Alot of people don't group as it is....NOBODY will group if you can get just as good exp solo chain killing green and blue solo mobs.</STRONG></P> <P>IMO leveling is way to fast in this game as it is. I miss the old days of EQ1 where your level ment something. When you saw a level 50 in EQ1 you know he worked to get there.<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P></P> <DIV><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>And? there is a problem with this? Sorry, you dont *deserve* a group just because you think the word 'group' is in MMORPG.</P> <P>I pay my 15 bucks a month to play the way I want to play and that is duoing with my wife or soloing when she isnt on.</P> <P>Soloer's money is just as green as everyone else's.</P>

Drift3r

08-19-2006, 09:37 PM

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Kizee wrote: <div></div> <p>I think it is stupid they are making solo exp better. Alot of people don't group as it is....NOBODY will group if you can get just as good exp solo chain killing green and blue solo mobs.</p> <p>IMO leveling is way to fast in this game as it is. I miss the old days of EQ1 where your level ment something. When you saw a level 50 in EQ1 you know he worked to get there.</p> <blockquote> <p>Level cap isn not being raised in next expansion.</p> <hr> </blockquote></blockquote>Have you considered returning to EQ1 and playing on one of the new Progression servers?<hr></blockquote>LoL - EQ1 progression servers are a perfect example of how you will not stop people who want to power level. Within 1 month time you had folks opening new content in EQ1 progression servers and within the year it'll be the same old same old. As you said though if people want the "Good ole days" they can always resub their EQ1 accounts. Personally though you couldn't pay me to play EQ1.....well you could but it would cost you lots of money to do so <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Drift3r on <span class=date_text>08-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:43 AM</span>

Ravaan

08-20-2006, 12:05 AM

<DIV>Screw the powerlevelers and raiding guilds that "are bored". Wah see thats what happens when you try to max your character out in as little time as possible. it's your fault not the devs.</DIV>

TaleraRis

08-20-2006, 12:39 AM

<blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote:<div></div><blockquote> <p></p> <hr> TaleraRis wrote: The servers were top heavy when 50 was the limit, when 60 was the limit, now with 70 the limit (and I believe it's going up 5 levels next expansion) because of the overwhelming idea that the game begins at "X" level. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Level cap isn not being raised in next expansion.<hr></blockquote>In EQ1, which that sentence is about, it is to 75.<div></div>

eq2john

08-20-2006, 12:45 AM

<div></div>Very welcome change. Fully support it.Imo I really do dislike this 'you don't know what you're doing once you get to xx level' attitude by end gamers who think they are the only ones who matter.So what if a crumb is handed out for players who really can't or don't want to buy into this powerleverling headrush thing? Straight soloing is not a walk in the park by any means - and the rewards are not so great either - but that's a choice many take for convenience. 'You must group' fixation is probably a very good reason why many prefer not to because of others demanding the goals and controlling the agenda. SoE are providing the means to go other routes, to suit various playstyles - and that could become one of the great strengths of this game is done right. It is nice to know that the devs are not solely end game, high end orientated.There are other ways to play this game. It <i>would </i>be very boring otherwise.Grats Soe!

TaleraRis

08-20-2006, 12:50 AM

<blockquote><hr>Deson wrote:<div></div><div></div>While I too spend almost all my time solo, this is a game built around grouping and if it ends up not being rewarding in comparison, there will be no compelling reason to group and thus alot of wasted content. <div></div><hr></blockquote>I seriously doubt this is going to impact grouping. I can spend all night killing blue con solo mobs in Everfrost or SoS for quest things and get a fraction of a level. I can spend the same time in a fast-pulling group, such as the heroic spiders that are yellow and orange, and get at least one level and usually more. I've never in a group targeted anything less than yellow or orange heroics, because it just wasn't feasible xp wise. But I am very doubtful they are going to increase solo mob xp so much that I can compare to what I can get in a group. It seems to me they're merely bridging the very large gap between solo xp and group xp.<div></div>

SisterTheresa

08-20-2006, 01:00 AM

<P>I like the exp change. I am a Templar. I am also stuck doing a good amout of things solo. Why you might ask? Because of time. My guild mainly comes on at night but then I usually have a group so no worries there. But if I wanted to play in the morning, I solo. And my realm is green con mobs.</P> <P>Phear my l33t killing skillz!</P> <P>Pfft ... not :smileyhappy:</P>

Lairdragna

08-20-2006, 01:07 AM

In a game where some classes can only solo lower con solo mobs, and others can solo triple up green and blue heroics, something needs to be done to level the field.<div></div>

Kordran

08-20-2006, 01:39 AM

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kenman wrote:<BR> Christ, leveling is way too fast as it is. How many GUs from now until we just start at level 70? =<BR><BR>EDIT: And just fyi, I pretty much entirely soloed up until my mid 60s. I still thought it went *TOO FAST*<BR> <P>Message Edited by kenman on <SPAN class=date_text>08-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:52 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Just to point out, if you feel that XP gain is too fast from fighting mobs, you have the option of turning off your combat experience. The rate at which you level is mostly (but not entirely, since you can't turn off quest XP) up to you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Leawyn

08-20-2006, 02:15 AM

<blockquote><hr>Ravaan wrote:<div>Screw the powerlevelers and raiding guilds that "are bored". Wah see thats what happens when you try to max your character out in as little time as possible. it's your fault not the devs.</div><hr></blockquote>Very constructive. And on another note (unrelated to the quote), just because I say leveling is too fast/easy, it doesn't mean I look down on soloers or think they shouldn't be allowed to solo. I never said that at all, or have I even implied it. I just think leveling is too fast.<div></div>

Lera

08-20-2006, 02:47 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>SisterTheresa wrote:<div></div> <p>I like the exp change. I am a Templar. I am also stuck doing a good amout of things solo. Why you might ask? Because of time. My guild mainly comes on at night but then I usually have a group so no worries there. But if I wanted to play in the morning, I solo. And my realm is green con mobs.</p> <p>Phear my l33t killing skillz!</p> <p>Pfft ... not :smileyhappy:</p><hr></blockquote>*sneaks up behind Ellistia and lobs a snowball at her, then runs*</div>

Amataelia

08-20-2006, 02:49 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Lairdragna wrote:In a game where some classes can only solo lower con solo mobs, and others can solo triple up green and blue heroics, something needs to be done to level the field.<div></div><hr></blockquote>/AGREE !I can solo a ^ yellow con with my wizzy in no time, I MIGHT be able to solo a green mob with my defiler in the same amount of time. You should see my defiler duo with my friend's inquisitor, you have time to bio and get a drink before the fight is over...........and that's with a solo blue con mob LOL. Just because my wizzy could get a bit more xp from a green mob does not mean I am going to do that all day instead of soloing higher con mobs, I like the challenge with that, hence why I enjoy soloing. I don't like taking all day to kill a green easy mob with my defiler for a teeny tiny bit of xp........I'm not looking for that much of a challenge! LOLPeople don't like the idea that soloing may be easier for all classes equally across the board. Why?? Soloers SOLO, so how does this affect anyone else in the community? It is still going to take longer to level than someone who groups or grinds all the time.Besides, I am sure the xp gained from a green mob isn't going to be outrageously high. <span>:smileywink:</span><span><span>Amataelia65 Wizzy70 Tailorand too many alts to listThe Legionnaires of LightBlackburrow</span></span></div>

Lera

08-20-2006, 02:51 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Leawyn wrote:<blockquote><hr>Ravaan wrote:<div>Screw the powerlevelers and raiding guilds that "are bored". Wah see thats what happens when you try to max your character out in as little time as possible. it's your fault not the devs.</div><hr></blockquote>Very constructive. And on another note (unrelated to the quote), just because I say leveling is too fast/easy, it doesn't mean I look down on soloers or think they shouldn't be allowed to solo. I never said that at all, or have I even implied it. I just think leveling is too fast.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Maybe not the most polite way to put it, but I agree. There's many changes which are aimed at raiders and those rushing to level 70, and the soloers generally have the attitude of "play how you want". But when those who prefer to solo aren't having run, "it's a multiplayer game - you should group" gets dragged out. You know, if they had a button to allow people to start at 70, I wouldn't care - let them jump ahead and miss most of the content. It won't affect my fun, and it might even improve it when prices drop.</div>

Deson

08-20-2006, 04:24 AM

My concern was not just about xp.It's the total package.I make more money solo than I ever did group. If that combined witht the xp increase makes the experience overall more rewarding than grouping, I'm wondering what will happen to the game. Had I never seen the Harclave effect I wouldn't have thought it possible; I always thought that the primary draw for people in this type of game was ulitimately interaction of some sort with others. I figured the damage anything like Harclave could do would be minimal and oh boy was I ever wrong. Changes like this don't affect how I want to play directly, it's far more subtle and indirect. I don't want to deal with guild drama and like meeting new people so I'm not in a guild(well, not a real one but thats another topic). I rely mostly on PuGs for my grouping experience and if those players decide to go Harclave on me, that forces a dramatic shift in my, and many others playstyles/expectations.With many guilded players pretty much having a guild only mentality and solo players that get comparable total rewards to grouping, where does that leave everyone else?<div></div>

Cowdenic

08-20-2006, 04:55 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Deson wrote:<BR>My concern was not just about xp.It's the total package.I make more money solo than I ever did group. If that combined witht the xp increase makes the experience overall more rewarding than grouping, I'm wondering what will happen to the game. Had I never seen the Harclave effect I wouldn't have thought it possible; I always thought that the primary draw for people in this type of game was ulitimately interaction of some sort with others. I figured the damage anything like Harclave could do would be minimal and oh boy was I ever wrong. Changes like this don't affect how I want to play directly, it's far more subtle and indirect. I don't want to deal with guild drama and like meeting new people so I'm not in a guild(well, not a real one but thats another topic). I rely mostly on PuGs for my grouping experience and if those players decide to go Harclave on me, that forces a dramatic shift in my, and many others playstyles/expectations.<BR><BR>With many guilded players pretty much having a guild only mentality and solo players that get comparable total rewards to grouping, where does that leave everyone else?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>looking for guild?????</P> <P>and soloers dont get rewards = to grouping. I cant count how many times I go into group instances and pull legendary and some fabled out. I would say it is much rarer among solo mobs.</P>

Deson

08-20-2006, 05:15 AM

Why do soloers need legendary or fabled? You can go through yellow solo cons comfortably in Mastercrafted,and you make more cash loot solo. I've never seen a group that can match coin/time what I can yank solo as a necro. I realize not everyone plays a DPS but, if the draw of solo reward becomes that good in the total package you can expect people to roll up alts for the sole purpose of cash farming/grinding them up. There are already plenty of folks who have their "solo" alt that exists for this purpose. If a source of grouping dries up, many of them will find that solo alt being their main because it's the path of least resistance. Looking for guild eh? For many people being in a guild is the equivalent of being in a job. I was in a great guild in EQ1 but still, the bs that would pop up just made me realize that not the experience I want here. I like the social interaction I've gotten from being non-guilded just fine. I think the game has a solid balance of solo/grouped rewards and content at the moment. I'm just wary of anything that tips that scale too much.<div></div>

Kordran

08-20-2006, 04:02 PM

<DIV>The problem, from the soloer's point of view, is that you're saying that you don't want to make soloing easier because you feel it negatively affects your ability to group -- it comes off as a way of saying "you won't play with me unless I force you to"; no surprise that's a turn-off to most people.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The truth is, although this is a social game, it also intentionally caters to both casual and more "hardcore" playstyles (although hardcore is admittedly a relative term; what would be considered hardcore gameplay in EQ2 is almost casual in EQ1). People who don't like grouping, or don't have the time to group, aren't going to group with you just because the game mechanics make it more difficult. They'll either (a) suck it up and continue to solo, or (b) quit playing EQ2 and switch to a game like WoW which is definitely on the solo-friendly side of the curve. Option (b) is what SoE would prefer to avoid, in case you were wondering. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There's lot of threads about this, but grouping is not an excuse, one way or the other. There's enough of a population to find groups, or better yet, <EM>form your own groups</EM>. It always amazes me the people who spam the level channels LFG, and yet it never dawns on them to actually form up a group of their own based on those people looking for a group. They just want to sit back and be invited; they can't be bothered to do any "heavy lifting" themselves, so to speak (not that putting together a group is hard in the first place).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And if you're concerned about groups, join a guild. That's one of the reasons they exist. Other people you can call on to help with things like completing quests or leveling; and in turn, they can call on you. There's no rule that says once you join a guild you can't form pickup groups; but if you need to fill a group with a specific player type (tank, healer, whatever) then guilds also provide that additional resource to find those people. If you're in your 40s looking to do CT and a level 70 guildmate is out harvesting, they might just switch toons to help you out. That's not something you can find out using LFG or even spamming level channels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Amataelia

08-20-2006, 04:54 PM

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Deson wrote:My concern was not just about xp.It's the total package.I make more money solo than I ever did group. If that combined witht the xp increase makes the experience overall more rewarding than grouping, I'm wondering what will happen to the game. Had I never seen the Harclave effect I wouldn't have thought it possible; I always thought that the primary draw for people in this type of game was ulitimately interaction of some sort with others. I figured the damage anything like Harclave could do would be minimal and oh boy was I ever wrong. Changes like this don't affect how I want to play directly, it's far more subtle and indirect. I don't want to deal with guild drama and like meeting new people so I'm not in a guild(well, not a real one but thats another topic). I rely mostly on PuGs for my grouping experience and if those players decide to go Harclave on me, that forces a dramatic shift in my, and many others playstyles/expectations.<font color="#ff00cc">With many guilded players pretty much having a guild only mentality and solo players that get comparable total rewards to grouping, where does that leave everyone else?</font><div></div><hr></blockquote>Reasons I solo: a) I am a single mother, I don't have time to commit to a group for hours at a time, I am afk off and on A LOT, what kind of group would put up with that besides a guild group that understands my situation. b) If I do group it is with guildies for the reason above or because I seem to find total jerks, people who have no social skills and people who don't know how to play their class in pick up groups. I have alts on a pvp server, half of that playerbase acts like they are 14 and under and play like it also. Nothing like a bunch of teenagers trying to make their e-peens bigger. c) Even if they made soloing something that was impossible to do I still wouldn't group with many people who are not guilded. d) Yes, I also like the challenge of soloing and not everyone solos with DPS, I solo with all my classes, not because I want great loot but because I don't have the choice to group all the time and want to xp other classes, my defiler for example.I don't see this affecting gameplay any differently, people who raid are still going to raid, people who group are still going to group, people who solo will still solo. <span>Amataelia65 Wizzy70 Tailorand too many alts to listThe Legionnaires of LightBlackburrow</span></div><p>Message Edited by Amataelia on <span class=date_text>08-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:57 AM</span>

Deson

08-20-2006, 08:36 PM

As I never intended to get into a solo vs. group argument and feel I cannot make the point I wanted to any clearer than I already have, I'm dropping out of this on this note- just as PuGs aren't for everyone neither are guilds. To constantly respond to people who worry about the overall group situation with join a guild is just as short sighted as telling people who like to solo to accept bad xp/loot or group. To each their own but the rewards of each playstyle has to be balanced.Risk vs. Reward/Reward vs. Playstyle being tipped that far over in any direction is a bad thing and it's effects can't be felt until it hits live and does it's damage.I'm hoping all this is just overblown and overreactions of speculators but it's always good to voice concern when there is danger of the scale tipping. I'm a solo player. No kids or anything real life that compels me to solo, I just enjoy it. I like the lack of pressure from people with bad attiudes that somehow know everything about my class and try to play it through tells/groupsay. I like not feeling obligated to make my 50th Sol's eye run to Naggy or whatever just because I'm wearing a tag(don't start this argument I've nothing against helping guildies.) Just because I have a preferred playstyle though does not remove my obligation to watch the overall health of the game.I'm not knocking anyone, I'm just wary.<div></div>

Kordran

08-20-2006, 08:47 PM

<P>Just to point out, there is such a thing as "solo/duo player" guilds out there. People who have created guilds that don't worry about status points, guild level, faction, raiding, etc. Just a place for solo and duo players to call home and help to occasionally complete quests together, but without any obligation to change your preferred playstyle. Whatever server you play on, you might want to ask around. You could be surprised at what you find. </P>

ZeyGnome

08-20-2006, 11:14 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kordran wrote:<BR> <P>Just to point out, there is such a thing as "solo/duo player" guilds out there. People who have created guilds that don't worry about status points, guild level, faction, raiding, etc. Just a place for solo and duo players to call home and help to occasionally complete quests together, but without any obligation to change your preferred playstyle. Whatever server you play on, you might want to ask around. You could be surprised at what you find. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes, ask around, because you sure as heck can't use the guild recruiting functions, unless you want to be in a raid guild or a huge guild.</P> <P>Sorry for the detour, but it does tie into this. If that tool even worked moderately correctly, then people might actually be able to find a guild who fits their style better (like the solo guild you are referring to). As it stands now, you're only options to find a guild like you described is to yell on the chat channels and hope someone will answer you.</P> <P> </P>

selch

08-20-2006, 11:17 PM

<blockquote><hr>Kordran wrote:<P>Just to point out, there is such a thing as "solo/duo player" guilds out there. People who have created guilds that don't worry about status points, guild level, faction, raiding, etc. Just a place for solo and duo players to call home and help to occasionally complete quests together, but without any obligation to change your preferred playstyle. Whatever server you play on, you might want to ask around. You could be surprised at what you find. </P><hr></blockquote>As family we are one of examples of this kind of guilds and we have met many other family guilds like this and actually during our adventures in Norrath-wide.Anyway, here let me tell you difference of XP between heroics & solo mobs: Solo mobs of even con is less than 10% of a trash heroic dungeon mob. You can test it yourself too.So, grouping is an alternative to get more reward, more xp in much lesser time and even solo xp increased 100% more, it would still be 20% of a single trash heroic mob. I don't think I understand reason behind whines against these changes except the ancient excuse "to-post-something-to-whine"I'm by no-means game to be-easy ofcourse, but this kind of changes encourages people more into game, and first thing people asks after my articles about EQ2 was "How nice content as solo?" We don't want our game to be pure-hardcore and a dying-breed, right?<p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>08-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:24 PM</span>

Oakum

08-21-2006, 02:47 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR> <P>Well in a true risk vs. reward world, xp and loot would be nerfed hard from heroics, and raised through the roof for epics.</P> <P>If that isnt your play style. Oh well. You have it available. Isnt that what all the groupers say?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yep. Thats what the raiders say too everytime they want preferential treatment and special loot just for them too. LoL</P> <P>On the other hand, if you use common sense that is and look at it logically, its a lot more likely that a soloer will occasionally group then raid since the equipment that a soloer would be able to get would not generally be acceptable for raiding.</P> <P> Someone who prefers groups will try for a pickup raid sometimes but usually just to finish quest unless they want to switch to being raiders. Then they use the PU raids as a stepping stones to get the equipment and spells and to become known while they are trying to find a raid guild. </P> <P>Going the other way its slightly different since raiders break down to groups quite frequently without a second thought to do the "prismatic" quest lines, sigature quests, ect and solo when their guildies are not on. </P> <P>Of course with their better gear it takes a hard green/blue or better heroics to give them a challenge but thats okay since they are usually farming to pay their repair bills, twink or power level alts with collection items, or to get on the richest people on the server list. lol. </P> <P>To sum it all up. </P> <P>Soloing - pretty much everyone does at some point but has a decent amount people who prefer this playstyle.</P> <P>Raiding - smallest of the 3 adv playstyles. Gear of soloers especially and some people who group not good enough to stand a chance of succeeding at that play style.</P> <P>Grouping - The most accessible playstyle with the largest player base that is can be switched to the easiest from the other two play styles. </P>

Ravaan

08-21-2006, 07:53 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lera wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Maybe not the most polite way to put it, but I agree. There's many changes which are aimed at raiders and those rushing to level 70, and the soloers generally have the attitude of "play how you want". But when those who prefer to solo aren't having run, "it's a multiplayer game - you should group" gets dragged out. You know, <STRONG>if they had a button to allow people to start at 70, I wouldn't care</STRONG> - let them jump ahead and miss most of the content. It won't affect my fun, and it might even improve it when prices drop.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>exactly, i don't see what the big deal is with the xp system ... who cares if its too fast. if you think its too fast then slow down yourself, why do the devs have to penalize everyone else because you're a masochist (not directed at the person i quoted but others in the thread).</P> <P>with most of the games raid content Instanced the Raiding people shouldn't give a crap who is 70 and how long it took them to get 70. since it doesn't effect them in anyway. </P> <P>and with a quick leveling system it might encourage more alts since its not a pain to level up. </P> <P>though someone said its not about the ep33n, its the only thing i can think of. theres no competition at all just PVE so why not let others level quickly so they can enjoy the end game.</P> <P>Or is enjoying the game against the law in MMOs?</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

Gaige

08-21-2006, 09:52 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR>We don't want our game to be pure-hardcore and a dying-breed, right? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No, but we want it to be successful. There is no faster way to turn people off than to let leveling be so easy and so solo that people solo to 70 and then quit, like WoW.</P> <P>WoW is only lucky that Blizzard has such name recognition and popularity in Asia, because if they didn't their churn would kill them.<BR></P>

missionarymarr

08-21-2006, 01:23 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR>We don't want our game to be pure-hardcore and a dying-breed, right? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No, but we want it to be successful. There is no faster way to turn people off than to let leveling be so easy and so solo that people solo to 70 and then quit, like WoW.</P> <P>WoW is only lucky that Blizzard has such name recognition and popularity in Asia, because if they didn't their churn would kill them.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I agree we don't want to make the game to easy to level in. The problem I see with this argument is that most of the people who complain the game is to easy are the more hardcore players. The ones who have quite a few friends to group with constantly and in a lot of cases I think eventually raid with. They are the ones who I see who always complain when a change is made to make things easier. Yet I believe SOE is more aware then they are that for the majority of the player base this game isn't to easy and as such occasionally will make improvements for the health of the game that yes will make it easier.</P> <P>I have been playing for a couple of years now and except for the beginning levels have never felt that the levelling process was way to fast. I also don't find the game to easy overall I think when changes are made like this we will hear a lot of complaints about this on the forums but if all the player base actually posted on the forums you would find out that the majority would support these changes. It will be interesting to see how great these changes are but from everything I have seen in this game they would have to be awfully large to really take away from grouping as being the best means of getting Xps.</P>

Drekkyk

08-21-2006, 06:33 PM

<DIV>Is leveling too fast? First toon, 17 days (played) to lvl 33, then LU13 and I got rid of EQ2. Came back and rolled new toon, lvl 33 in 7 days(played). This could be because of game changes, but more likely because I knew more and what to do. It really seems the only people that think its too easy to level are those who have made it to the cap. In EQ1 when I finally made to cap (I think I was the last one) I felt more accomplishment, but I also feel that I missed out on a lot of high end content because I couldnt get there with the majority of the crowd. In EQ2 its better because I can choose to get to 70 fairly quick and then I can choose which content to do. Mentoring allows this, and is benificial to anyone lower. I really dont see much mentoring and that is pretty sad. At least the casual player can achieve the cap in a much more reasonable timeframe and allow them to experience more then the casual player could in EQ1. What happens when the cap reaches 100 or 150? I think the game mechanics allow for lvl 200 plus, but how daunting would it be for a new player to have to climb that sort of ladder to get into the "mainstream?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, as long as green mob xp is < blue mob xp, then the power leveler that can kill the blues will continue to do so.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Drekkyk on <span class=date_text>08-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:34 AM</span>

Lynadianya Zeran

08-21-2006, 07:08 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Drekkyk wrote:<BR> <DIV>Is leveling too fast? <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff66>First toon, 17 days (played) to lvl 33, then LU13 and I got rid of EQ2. Came back and rolled new toon, lvl 33 in 7 days(played). This could be because of game changes</FONT>,</STRONG> but more likely because I knew more and what to do. It really seems the only people that think its too easy to level are those who have made it to the cap. In EQ1 when I finally made to cap (I think I was the last one) I felt more accomplishment, but I also feel that I missed out on a lot of high end content because I couldnt get there with the majority of the crowd. In EQ2 its better because I can choose to get to 70 fairly quick and then I can choose which content to do. Mentoring allows this, and is benificial to anyone lower. I really dont see much mentoring and that is pretty sad. At least the casual player can achieve the cap in a much more reasonable timeframe and allow them to experience more then the casual player could in EQ1. What happens when the cap reaches 100 or 150? I think the game mechanics allow for lvl 200 plus, but how daunting would it be for a new player to have to climb that sort of ladder to get into the "mainstream?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, as long as green mob xp is < blue mob xp, then the power leveler that can kill the blues will continue to do so.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Drekkyk on <SPAN class=date_text>08-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:34 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>It's because of game changes. XP was increased across the board, especially for heroic content.</P> <P>Ok, a note for everyone complaining about them increasing green xp, 100 times 0 is still 0. The xp gain on green mobs might as well not even be there it's so small. You could kill 20 of them to get 1% xp. That's what, 2000 mobs to get a level? So, significant here is a loaded statement. Even if they increased the xp by 20% (which would be significant) you're still looking at 1,600 mobs for a level. </P> <P>All you out there that can solo yellow cons and heroics you are already getting far more xp than those of us, who when forced to solo, can really only solo green and blue cons. Why are so many (not the person I quoted) trying to deny us our pittance? Can I kill a yellow con no arrow solo mob? Yes...takes me forever, but yes (well, it used to, but as my fable gear is growing, I can actually take on yellows without fearing that it's a 50/50 shot of living). So, I can kill yellows very slowly, but in reality I can't quest yellows. I really couldn't do solo quests until they were green to me. I get almost no xp for the quest while green and almost no xp for the mob while green, but I am taking the time and the risk to do them (yes, with more than 2 adds, green no arrows could kill me before I hit 70). At least this way, when I attempt to level my alt Mystic and Templars I can actually do some solo questing and maybe get a little bit out of it. </P> <P>I am a group character (Troubadour). I have 2 group alts (Mystic and Templar). They get all of their experience by grouping as there is simply no reason for me to bother trying to solo with them. This also means that I don't do solo quests as the xp is pointless for how long it takes me while everything is green. Ulitmately, it also means that I don't do group quests, as it's easy for me to find an xp group, but it's very hard to find a group doing specific quests. It would be nice to do a green con solo quest and have it mean just a little.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

Tomanak

08-21-2006, 07:58 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kordran wrote:<BR> <DIV><STRONG>The problem, from the soloer's point of view, is that you're saying that you don't want to make soloing easier because you feel it negatively affects your ability to group -- it comes off as a way of saying "you won't play with me unless I force you to"; no surprise that's a turn-off to most people.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>The truth is, although this is a social game, it also intentionally caters to both casual and more "hardcore" playstyles (although hardcore is admittedly a relative term; what would be considered hardcore gameplay in EQ2 is almost casual in EQ1). People who don't like grouping, or don't have the time to group, aren't going to group with you just because the game mechanics make it more difficult. They'll either (a) suck it up and continue to solo, or (b) quit playing EQ2 and switch to a game like WoW which is definitely on the solo-friendly side of the curve. Option (b) is what SoE would prefer to avoid, in case you were wondering. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></STRONG> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>QFE and bolded. Bravo Kordran. Your points are excellently written and very true. If someone is truely a soloer, no amount of incentives will get them to group. It is a personally choice and not one that should be dictated by draconian game mechanics. While I do the occasional PuG, 75% of the time Im in group is with guildies. If they arent on Im going to solo. Not because Im anti social, think you are all morons or anything else, but simply because I prefer grouping with those I know and by soloing I have complete freedom in what I do and for how long I do it. 5 guildies log on in a 30 minute time span..hey all lets go do something, If Im solo I can simply say send me an invite and Im omw. If Im in a PuG, I then have to make a decision. Do I do the dishonerable thing and drop the PuG as soon as a better alternative comes along? or do i stay in the PuG, lose the chance to get in the guild group and then have the PuG break apart 5 minutes later..its simpler to solo during those downtimes. <BR><p>Message Edited by Tomanak on <span class=date_text>08-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:11 AM</span>

Geekyone

08-21-2006, 08:45 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CoLD MeTaL wrote:<BR>I hope that Game Nerf 27 does indeed have these changes.<BR><BR>For those who say leveling is *TOO FAST*, i would point to my level 59 warlock, that I started in january 2006, and is not yet 70. *Gasp* 9 months of playing to get to level 59 is TOO FAST?!?!?!?!?!?!<BR><BR>Now i will point out that i have beaten 613 or so warlocks on my werver to level 59.<BR><BR>XP past level 40 is SO SLOW that it is ridiculous, this probably won't be enough, but it is a step in the right direction.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Hahaha...noob. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>66 Paladin created December 7, 2004.</P>

JoarAddam

08-21-2006, 09:12 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChaosUndivided wrote:<BR> What Leawyn Said. It's just gonna promote people taking on greens and blues instead of challenging encounters, what they should have done is increased solo xp for yellows.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Folk decide their own level of challenge in this game. if people want to easy button and take greens all the time, that's their perogative. Personally, If I solo, I choose to take heroics. I can beat the nest of the great egg from bottom to top on my own. I can grind to the deepest part of the vault in sanctum, I can get to the third floor in palace. Pretty much, if I want to go somewhere and hit something, I'll go try it out. if my bars aren't using their full spectrum of color, I'm not happy. That's how I play. Fights are supposed to be tense, they should test you to your limits, force you to strategize on which abilities to use and not. I like to really fine tune and choose the right abilities to keep the fight interesting and hard. Sometimes, that means taking an extra encounter or 2 just to keep the bars fluctuating.</P> <P>It's nice that super casuals get to see more content a little quicker. the 4-6 hour a week guys who don't have the time to take groups. Normally, I wouldn't consider this game to be worth it at that level of casualness. maybe now that they can move along to the different zones in a reasonable time frame, more people will roll alts, and learn more about how the rest of the players live and die.</P> <P>This isn't making the game any harder for the rest of you, and if all of the "great" players out there end up with someone in their group who has no idea how to group, it won't be hard to recognize ON THE WAY to the instance. Folk should be evaluating people they play with and then actually making a decision to use them, or not, rather than just making do. If you feel like teaching someone to be a grouper, stick with them until they become one or you recognize that it will never happen. You can build a grouper out of a soloer if the both of you are willing to invest the time. If not, then move on to one of the other thousands of people playing. The skilled players can recognize skill in others. Most of us can do it without having to look at a parser. There's no danger for the skilled, in non groupers getting to level a little faster.</P> <P> </P>

Magic

08-21-2006, 10:04 PM

<P>As an avid soloist, I'm very happy about these changes in combat XP, especially that from green mobs.</P> <P>My advice to anyone who feels that combat XP is TOO FAST is to disable combat XP. Too fast or too slow is only meaningful to the one making the statement. What's too fast for one is too slow to another. You can't please all of the people all of the time.</P>

Blintok

08-22-2006, 01:25 AM

<blockquote><hr>Kordran wrote: <div>People who don't like grouping, or don't have the time to group, aren't going to group with you just because the game mechanics make it more difficult. They'll either (a) suck it up and continue to solo, or (b) quit playing EQ2 and switch to a game like WoW which is definitely on the solo-friendly side of the curve. Option (b) is what SoE would prefer to avoid, in case you were wondering. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <hr></blockquote>agree 100% -- me as an example.. EQ1(mar1999-Sept2004) (did all the grouping-raiding-soloing there fun times but would not go back to the 12hrs long raidplaystyle again) EQ2 launch. played game. quit when wow came out. EQ2 was not the casual friendly game i was led to believe it would be.Nov2004-June2005 - played wow. got bored and went back to Darkage of Camelot because of the new expansion. played that till around Dec2005decided to give EQ2 another go. played for a few months..got a couple of char to level 30. quit around march2006decided to give wow another shot... that lasted about 2 months <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Gah. what was i thinking.read about some changes to EQ2 that i liked (Lu24 time) so on June11 2006 i came back. I am here now and loving it and plan (hope)to stay along timeI prefer to solo. most of game time is solo. i reserve sundays mostly for finding and or grouping. other wise i want to solo other days due to time constrants(afk alot or just puttering around in game chatting or Tradeskill related things)Forced grouping will not make me group. i will still solo but if that becomes way too much of a tedious chore i will go elsewhere.I am now playing EQ2 because of the changes. I love the game and want to continue to play.so like Kordran says, forced game mechanics wont make me group it will make folks like me hit the cancel button and go elsewhere.

Kriddle Kraddle

08-22-2006, 01:31 AM

<DIV>Honestly why make leveling easier than it already is? This game is becoming more and more dumbed down everyday. Give people a reason to group up instead of play an MMO alone. What is the reason for playing an MMO if you arent willing to group with people now and then? It wont be long till fabled is dropping off solo mobs that is better than drops off epics.</DIV>

RoadkillUSA

08-22-2006, 02:14 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<div>Honestly why make leveling easier than it already is? This game is becoming more and more dumbed down everyday.<font color="#ccff00">Increasing xp for solo players is not dumbing down the game. It gives the soloer a the ability to level a bit faster. A person can level fast in a group, does this also dumb down the game?</font> Give people a reason to group up instead of play an MMO alone. <font color="#ccff00">There are already reasons to group. To complete non solo quests, faster and better xp than soloing (even with the new update). Chance to get better loot.</font>What is the reason for playing an MMO if you arent willing to group with people now and then?<font color="#ccff00">Why do people believe that a mmorpg</font> (<b>Massively-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game) </b><font color="#ccff00">is defined as a grouping game? All it means is there are other people interacting with each other ,in real time, while playing the same game. I like to talk with people in chat but does that mean I also have to group to do that? I like helping other players when I see them in trouble but do I have to be in a group to do that? I like to tradeskill but do I have to have a group for that?</font><font color="#ccff00"></font><font color="#ccff00">I do group from time to time but I don't want to have to rely on a group to get good xp. As long as I am paying my subscription fee and not breaking any rules, I will play the way I like to play and if that is to solo way too fast to 70 and miss content in the game thats my choice. If I feel I'm leveling to fast I can stop questing and fighting mobs or simply turn off combat XP. My choice, nobody else is forcing me to play the way I like.</font> It wont be long till fabled is dropping off solo mobs that is better than drops off epics.</div><font color="#ccff00">We all know this will never happen and does not help support your argument against the change.</font><hr></blockquote></div>

Lera

08-22-2006, 02:19 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<div>Honestly why make leveling easier than it already is? This game is becoming more and more dumbed down everyday. Give people a reason to group up instead of play an MMO alone. What is the reason for playing an MMO if you arent willing to group with people now and then? It wont be long till fabled is dropping off solo mobs that is better than drops off epics.</div><hr></blockquote>I'm guessing you almost never solo - the XP from soloing is almost nothing, especially for those classes to whom blue mobs are a challenge and white ones, don't even think about it. More XP does not equal dumbing down, since the same challenge is there, but the reward is increased to compensate for the time. Not everyone has the time to spend mostly in groups, and their $15 are just as good as yours. Multiplayer does not mean forced grouping, only that the world contains many human players rather than only NPCs. There's all sorts of reasons why one would choose to solo, ranging from time issues to the lack of any decent solo RPGs in the past few years except Oblivion and Neverwinter Nights. And how does this affect your playstyle? Others leveling quickly doesn't affect what you can do in the game. If you think it's too easy, then quit and go play a game where you have to kill thousands of creatures per level.</div>

Leawyn

08-22-2006, 02:20 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> missionarymarr wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR>We don't want our game to be pure-hardcore and a dying-breed, right? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No, but we want it to be successful. There is no faster way to turn people off than to let leveling be so easy and so solo that people solo to 70 and then quit, like WoW.</P> <P>WoW is only lucky that Blizzard has such name recognition and popularity in Asia, because if they didn't their churn would kill them.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I agree we don't want to make the game to easy to level in. <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>The problem I see with this argument is that most of the people who complain the game is to easy are the more hardcore players. The ones who have quite a few friends to group with constantly and in a lot of cases I think eventually raid with. They are the ones who I see who always complain when a change is made to make things easier.</FONT></STRONG> Yet I believe SOE is more aware then they are that for the majority of the player base this game isn't to easy and as such occasionally will make improvements for the health of the game that yes will make it easier.</P> <P>I have been playing for a couple of years now and except for the beginning levels have never felt that the levelling process was way to fast. I also don't find the game to easy overall I think when changes are made like this we will hear a lot of complaints about this on the forums but if all the player base actually posted on the forums you would find out that the majority would support these changes. It will be interesting to see how great these changes are but from everything I have seen in this game they would have to be awfully large to really take away from grouping as being the best means of getting Xps.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The problem I see is that soloers always think the people who say the game is too easy is the "hardcore" people. I'm not hard core. I'm in a casual guild that raids 1-2 nights a week. I play often, and don't solo much, and I level extremely fast just from PUG's almost every day. I started fresh on my server just over 2 months ago, not knowing a single soul! And I joined my guild on my second day, and I was only level 10. I'm level 67 now, and that was with very little soloing, alot of grouping, and some questing. An "average" player, I believe, would follow my path. They may do more quests, or take longer to get groups, or solo more if they didn't have much time to play, but I would think an average player, about 2-2.5 hours of playtime a night, 3-4 nights a week, can hit level 70 in 4 months if they concentrate on grouping.<BR>

Lera

08-22-2006, 02:29 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Leawyn wrote:<div></div>The problem I see is that soloers always think the people who say the game is too easy is the "hardcore" people. I'm not hard core. I'm in a casual guild that raids 1-2 nights a week. I play often, and don't solo much, and I level extremely fast just from PUG's almost every day. I started fresh on my server just over 2 months ago, not knowing a single soul! And I joined my guild on my second day, and I was only level 10. I'm level 67 now, and that was with very little soloing, alot of grouping, and some questing. An "average" player, I believe, would follow my path. They may do more quests, or take longer to get groups, or solo more if they didn't have much time to play, but I would think an average player, about 2-2.5 hours of playtime a night, 3-4 nights a week, can hit level 70 in 4 months if they concentrate on grouping.<hr></blockquote>I wouldn't call that "hardcore", but I also wouldn't call it the casual style many soloers have. But you said you spent most of that time grouped, and group XP is just fine. Solo XP, on the other hand, absolutely sucks. Some people solo because they hate pickup groups, since you never can tell what they'll be like, or they have RL issues such as children to take care of which might require them to go AFK at a moment's notice. A guild group might understand; a pickup group probably wouldn't. Some people can only play half an hour or so a day, and so they have to solo. Right now, it's probably several thousand mobs per level at the upper tiers, and that's just crazy.Try soloing for a while, and then come back to tell us if the XP is too low or not.</div>

TaleraRis

08-22-2006, 02:51 AM

<blockquote><hr>Leawyn wrote: <div>The problem I see is that soloers always think the people who say the game is too easy is the "hardcore" people. I'm not hard core. I'm in a casual guild that raids 1-2 nights a week. I play often, and don't solo much, and I level extremely fast just from PUG's almost every day. I started fresh on my server just over 2 months ago, not knowing a single soul! And I joined my guild on my second day, and I was only level 10. I'm level 67 now, and that was with very little soloing, alot of grouping, and some questing. An "average" player, I believe, would follow my path. They may do more quests, or take longer to get groups, or solo more if they didn't have much time to play, but I would think an average player, about 2-2.5 hours of playtime a night, 3-4 nights a week, can hit level 70 in 4 months if they concentrate on grouping. </div><hr></blockquote>Group xp is many times what solo xp is. As I said earlier in this thread, I can solo all night in Everfrost on blue mobs and only get a few bubbles of a level. I can group chain pulling heroic mobs and make one level and sometimes even two in the same time. You cannot hold up the ease of leveling in a group and then say that an improvement to solo xp is making it too easy to level. I second the remark that you should spend some time soloing and then see if you'll still say that a slight improvement to solo xp is going to make much of a difference.<div></div>

Kordran

08-22-2006, 03:12 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Leawyn wrote: <P>The problem I see is that soloers always think the people who say the game is too easy is the "hardcore" people. I'm not hard core. I'm in a casual guild that raids 1-2 nights a week. I play often, and don't solo much, and I level extremely fast just from PUG's almost every day. I started fresh on my server just over 2 months ago, not knowing a single soul! And I joined my guild on my second day, and I was only level 10. I'm level 67 now, and that was with very little soloing, alot of grouping, and some questing. An "average" player, I believe, would follow my path. They may do more quests, or take longer to get groups, or solo more if they didn't have much time to play, but I would think an average player, about 2-2.5 hours of playtime a night, 3-4 nights a week, can hit level 70 in 4 months if they concentrate on grouping.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Just to point out, not everyone measures their progress by adventure level. For example, you're level 67 toon in two months. How many quests have you completed? Of those, how many Heritage quests have you completed? How many access quests? What is your tradeskill level? How many achievement points do you have? How much coin do you have? What kind of home do you have? What titles do you have? How many status points do you have?</P> <P>There's a lot of different ways to measure progress and "success" in the game. Adventure level is just one aspect of gameplay. It could be argued, for example, that a player who is a well-known level 70 crafter with a large, decorated home and 50pp to their name is more successful, even if they're 20 adventure levels behind you.</P> <P>The beauty of EQ2 is that there's more than one way to play the game, and more than one way to succeed at it.</P> <P>Edit: I would also point out that players who group all the time are the ones who are actually following the path of least resistance and playing the game on "easy mode", not the other way around. A player who has soloed most of their way up 70 levels and has acquired the best gear he or she can has put a lot more effort into their toon than someone who's spent all of their time powerleveling up with their guildmates. Heck, in most groups unless you're the main tank or healer, you can be half-asleep at the switch and skate on by, just watching the little bar fill up.</P><p>Message Edited by Kordran on <span class=date_text>08-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:19 PM</span>

Kizee

08-22-2006, 04:10 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TaleraRis wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>Group xp is many times what solo xp is. As I said earlier in this thread, I can solo all night in Everfrost on blue mobs and only get a few bubbles of a level. I can group chain pulling heroic mobs and make one level and sometimes even two in the same time. You cannot hold up the ease of leveling in a group and then say that an improvement to solo xp is making it too easy to level. I second the remark that you should spend some time soloing and then see if you'll still say that a slight improvement to solo xp is going to make much of a difference.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>In some groups yes but what about those groups where you need to wait 30+ minutes to find a healer/tank and then have to wait another 30 mins while he takes his time to get to you. They finally get to you and you start going into a dungeon where a bad pull whipes the group and you need to start over.... you then get to the camping spot and start pulling then find out a key class (healer/tank) has to go then you spend another 30+ minutes looking for a replacement....rince and repeat. :p</P> <P>If they up solo exp too much then people just wont bother to get groups just like WoW. You can't find a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] group in that game if your life depended on it since people get better exp solo.<BR></P>

ZeyGnome

08-22-2006, 04:50 AM

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TaleraRis wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>Group xp is many times what solo xp is. As I said earlier in this thread, I can solo all night in Everfrost on blue mobs and only get a few bubbles of a level. I can group chain pulling heroic mobs and make one level and sometimes even two in the same time. You cannot hold up the ease of leveling in a group and then say that an improvement to solo xp is making it too easy to level. I second the remark that you should spend some time soloing and then see if you'll still say that a slight improvement to solo xp is going to make much of a difference.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>In some groups yes but what about those groups where you need to wait 30+ minutes to find a healer/tank and then have to wait another 30 mins while he takes his time to get to you. They finally get to you and you start going into a dungeon where a bad pull whipes the group and you need to start over.... you then get to the camping spot and start pulling then find out a key class (healer/tank) has to go then you spend another 30+ minutes looking for a replacement....rince and repeat. :p</P> <P>If they up solo exp too much then people just wont bother to get groups just like WoW. You can't find a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] group in that game if your life depended on it since people get better exp solo.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>Have you tried the new exp changes on Test?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Okay.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

RoadkillUSA

08-22-2006, 06:32 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> TaleraRis wrote: <blockquote> </blockquote>Group xp is many times what solo xp is. As I said earlier in this thread, I can solo all night in Everfrost on blue mobs and only get a few bubbles of a level. I can group chain pulling heroic mobs and make one level and sometimes even two in the same time. You cannot hold up the ease of leveling in a group and then say that an improvement to solo xp is making it too easy to level. I second the remark that you should spend some time soloing and then see if you'll still say that a slight improvement to solo xp is going to make much of a difference. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p><font color="#ffff00">In </font><font color="#ffff00">some groups yes but what about those groups where you need to wait 30+ minutes to find a healer/tank and then have to wait another 30 mins while he takes his time to get to you. They finally get to you and you start going into a dungeon where a bad pull whipes the group and you need to start over.... you then get to the camping spot and start pulling then find out a key class (healer/tank) has to go then you spend another 30+ minutes looking for a replacement....rince and repeat. :p</font></p> <p><font color="#ffff00">If they up solo exp too much then people just wont bother to get groups just like WoW. You can't find a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] group in that game if your life depended on it since people get better exp solo.</font></p><hr></blockquote>I would not blame anyone for wanting solo instead of group if they had to go through the conditions you mentioned. The solution to this problem is for people who want to group get there act together or suffer the consequences.</div>

Gorhauth

08-22-2006, 07:15 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Leawyn wrote:<div></div>The problem I see is that soloers always think the people who say the game is too easy is the "hardcore" people. I'm not hard core. I'm in a casual guild that raids 1-2 nights a week. I play often, and don't solo much, and I level extremely fast just from PUG's almost every day. I started fresh on my server just over 2 months ago, not knowing a single soul! And I joined my guild on my second day, and I was only level 10. I'm level 67 now, and that was with very little soloing, alot of grouping, and some questing. An "average" player, I believe, would follow my path. They may do more quests, or take longer to get groups, or solo more if they didn't have much time to play, but I would think an average player, about 2-2.5 hours of playtime a night, 3-4 nights a week, can hit level 70 in 4 months if they concentrate on grouping.<hr></blockquote>Would your PUGs be willing to take on people that have to afk every 30 minutes or so to deal with kids? Take a five min afk to take care of diapers, etc? Most likely they wouldn't. But those are the same conditions a lot of people play in. You might find grouping easy, but you probably have a good chunk of uninterrupted time. Not all people that like to solo have that luxury.Should people that like the social aspect of the game be penalized in adventuring? They already are, due to the content they can't see unless they get the time to spend in a group. Giving them a little more XP does nothing to hurt groupers, why should they care about it?</div>

missionarymarr

08-22-2006, 10:26 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> missionarymarr wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><BR>I agree we don't want to make the game to easy to level in. <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>The problem I see with this argument is that most of the people who complain the game is to easy are the more hardcore players. The ones who have quite a few friends to group with constantly and in a lot of cases I think eventually raid with. They are the ones who I see who always complain when a change is made to make things easier.</FONT></STRONG> Yet I believe SOE is more aware then they are that for the majority of the player base this game isn't to easy and as such occasionally will make improvements for the health of the game that yes will make it easier.</P> <P>I have been playing for a couple of years now and except for the beginning levels have never felt that the levelling process was way to fast. I also don't find the game to easy overall I think when changes are made like this we will hear a lot of complaints about this on the forums but if all the player base actually posted on the forums you would find out that the majority would support these changes. It will be interesting to see how great these changes are but from everything I have seen in this game they would have to be awfully large to really take away from grouping as being the best means of getting Xps.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The problem I see is that soloers always think the people who say the game is too easy is the "hardcore" people. I'm not hard core. I'm in a casual guild that raids 1-2 nights a week. I play often, and don't solo much, and I level extremely fast just from PUG's almost every day. I started fresh on my server just over 2 months ago, not knowing a single soul! And I joined my guild on my second day, and I was only level 10. I'm level 67 now, and that was with very little soloing, alot of grouping, and some questing. An "average" player, I believe, would follow my path. They may do more quests, or take longer to get groups, or solo more if they didn't have much time to play, but I would think an average player, about 2-2.5 hours of playtime a night, 3-4 nights a week, can hit level 70 in 4 months if they concentrate on grouping.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The main problem with your whole argument here is the last sentence. If they concentrate on grouping. Well we aren't talking about them increasing group xp. The difference between group and solo xp is so vast that although they are uping solo xp it is still not near the level of group xp. You still can get a lot better drops from grouping then you ever can from soloing. You might be able to make some decent money soloing but you still will end up having to buy or make most of your own equipment or make do with some of the gear you can get from solo quests. Also if a player doesn't have much time to play and only solos I think you would find that if you compare the hours played to get to a certain level the group player will clearly have a great advantage and should still have a great advantage after these changes. I can tell you with my first character who I mostly soloed and played around the times you mentioned I only got to about 45 with and that took me much longer then 4 months. Maybe what I should have said is that when changes like this are made to make things easier for the solo player. Group players all complain about them yet in a lot of cases don't realize how bad it is for the solo player to begin with.<BR>

Cowdenic

08-22-2006, 12:52 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> missionarymarr wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> missionarymarr wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><BR>I agree we don't want to make the game to easy to level in. <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>The problem I see with this argument is that most of the people who complain the game is to easy are the more hardcore players. The ones who have quite a few friends to group with constantly and in a lot of cases I think eventually raid with. They are the ones who I see who always complain when a change is made to make things easier.</FONT></STRONG> Yet I believe SOE is more aware then they are that for the majority of the player base this game isn't to easy and as such occasionally will make improvements for the health of the game that yes will make it easier.</P> <P>I have been playing for a couple of years now and except for the beginning levels have never felt that the levelling process was way to fast. I also don't find the game to easy overall I think when changes are made like this we will hear a lot of complaints about this on the forums but if all the player base actually posted on the forums you would find out that the majority would support these changes. It will be interesting to see how great these changes are but from everything I have seen in this game they would have to be awfully large to really take away from grouping as being the best means of getting Xps.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The problem I see is that soloers always think the people who say the game is too easy is the "hardcore" people. I'm not hard core. I'm in a casual guild that raids 1-2 nights a week. I play often, and don't solo much, and I level extremely fast just from PUG's almost every day. I started fresh on my server just over 2 months ago, not knowing a single soul! And I joined my guild on my second day, and I was only level 10. I'm level 67 now, and that was with very little soloing, alot of grouping, and some questing. An "average" player, I believe, would follow my path. They may do more quests, or take longer to get groups, or solo more if they didn't have much time to play, but I would think an average player, about 2-2.5 hours of playtime a night, 3-4 nights a week, can hit level 70 in 4 months if they concentrate on grouping.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The main problem with your whole argument here is the last sentence. If they concentrate on grouping. Well we aren't talking about them increasing group xp. The difference between group and solo xp is so vast that although they are uping solo xp it is still not near the level of group xp. You still can get a lot better drops from grouping then you ever can from soloing. You might be able to make some decent money soloing but you still will end up having to buy or make most of your own equipment or make do with some of the gear you can get from solo quests. Also if a player doesn't have much time to play and only solos I think you would find that if you compare the hours played to get to a certain level the group player will clearly have a great advantage and should still have a great advantage after these changes. I can tell you with my first character who I mostly soloed and played around the times you mentioned I only got to about 45 with and that took me much longer then 4 months. Maybe what I should have said is that when changes like this are made to make things easier for the solo player. Group players all complain about them yet in a lot of cases don't realize how bad it is for the solo player to begin with.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>And that is the true point of this thread right there in a nut shell. Some people fear that grouping is going to be less effective than soloing and we all know that is not going to be the case.</P> <P>Thanks for playing.<BR></P>

Emerix

08-22-2006, 12:57 PM

well .. not sure what to say here . yes i am level 70 and yes its very hard to find groups sometimes .. as a euro on us servers . but uhm .. increase solo exp ? on green and blue stuff ? 80 % of the new level 70s have absolutely no idea how to play their class . i mean .. trying to heal an arcana DOT with a elemental group cure and stuff like that . because it said group in the describtion ... arent the first 70 levels meant to make sure that people know how to play their class ? leveling is allready way too easy . WoW-izing the game more wont help .

Cowdenic

08-22-2006, 01:00 PM

Lynadianya Zeran

08-22-2006, 04:48 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JoarAddam wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Folk decide their own level of challenge in this game. if people want to easy button and take greens all the time, that's their perogative. Personally, If I solo, I choose to take heroics. I can beat the nest of the great egg from bottom to top on my own. I can grind to the deepest part of the vault in sanctum, I can get to the third floor in palace. Pretty much, if I want to go somewhere and hit something, I'll go try it out. if my bars aren't using their full spectrum of color, I'm not happy. That's how I play. Fights are supposed to be tense, they should test you to your limits, force you to strategize on which abilities to use and not. I like to really fine tune and choose the right abilities to keep the fight interesting and hard. Sometimes, that means taking an extra encounter or 2 just to keep the bars fluctuating.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Good for you....I was level 58 and completely mastered before I successfully soloed my first herioc mob - he was 9 levels below me and I almost died. Hell, in my 40s, gray heroics could kill me. For some classes trying to complete solo quests, blues/greens are <STRONG>not</STRONG> the easy button. You, obviously are not one of the aforementioned classes. </P> <P>I am certainly not trying to (nor did I try to) solo a group class to 70. However, there were many many hours when I could not find a group and my guildmates were not on where I either soloed or logged. I figure, if I want to actually experience the content in this game, I am going to need to make a character that can solo heriocs. Because I was <STRONG>forced</STRONG> to group to make any appreciable progress with my Troub (and my Templar) I missed out on most of the game. Forced grouping means: SH/FG - Varsoons - Runnyeye....you know the circuit. I wanted to go play in the bixie hive in Rivervale. I finally went there when it was completely gray to me because I could not convince anyone it might be interesting to visit. It also means waiting to solo solo quests until they are low blue/green - getting basically no xp for the mob and very little xp for the quest.</P> <P>Those of you who can hunt yellows and heroics will not be affected by this. Those of us who can't will see a slight increase in the rate of our return. That's it. No dumbing down the game, no racing to 70 soloing greens and blues. It's just a little more xp for something that probably takes us just as much time, effort and risk as a monk soloing a heroic. I certainly can not see someone who can effeciently kill white/yellows killng blues/greens anyway. You will still be getting <STRONG>substantially</STRONG> more xp for those whites/yellows than we will for our blues/greens even after the change.</P>

Killerbee3000

08-22-2006, 05:33 PM

there are classes that have to group to get somewhere and if they give more rewards for soloing (more exp in this case) then there will be less people willing to group, and its allready hard enough to find a good group. <div></div>

Cowdenic

08-22-2006, 05:44 PM

Kenazeer

08-22-2006, 06:29 PM

<P>A couple years ago a pretty smart person wrote.</P> <P align=left><FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#ffff33 size=-1>"Virtual worlds are under evolutionary pressure to promote design features that, while not exactly bad, are nevertheless poor. Each succeeding generation absorbs these into the virtual world paradigm, and introduces new poor features for the next generation to take on board. The result is that virtual world design follows a downward path of not-quite-good-enough, leading ultimately to an erosion of what virtual worlds are."</FONT></P> <P align=left>It seems <STRONG>some</STRONG> of this has played out since 11-04. </P>

TaleraRis

08-22-2006, 07:19 PM

Tomanak

08-22-2006, 07:21 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Emerix wrote:<BR> well .. not sure what to say here . yes i am level 70 and yes its very hard to find groups sometimes .. as a euro on us servers . but uhm .. increase solo exp ? on green and blue stuff ?<STRONG> 80 % of the new level 70s have absolutely no idea how to play their class</STRONG> . i mean .. trying to heal an arcana DOT with a elemental group cure and stuff like that . because it said group in the describtion ... arent the first 70 levels meant to make sure that people know how to play their class ? leveling is allready way too easy . WoW-izing the game more wont help .<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Firstly, there is absolutely no correlation between soloing and an inabilty to play your class. In fact I would argue that the opposite is true. When I dont have a tank/healer/DPS crutch to help kill mobs I have no choice but to learn my class in detail in order to survive without that help.</P> <P>If I understand you correctly you are saying that too many people level to 70 without learning how to play their class. Id say that is actually the fault of groups rather than soloers. I gain XP 10 times faster in a group..ergo those who group all the time will hit that level 70 cap without knowing their class as well as they should much faster than a soloer. So this argument is fallicious. In 2 days of soloing I can get maybe a level. If I group for those 2 days, I can get 3+ levels and thats w/o vitality.</P> <P>Again as stated I learn less about my class in a group. As a Dirge or even a Warlock, I learn absolutely nothing about the best way to cure arcane or even debuff properly because I dont have to. I can as someone else pointed out, af/afk for 4 hours, do pretty much nothing but be physically present at the KB and gain XP at an amazing rate. The other day I joined a PuG in the clefts for 45 minutes and made 60% XP...60% for doing basically nothing more onerous than cycling through my attack keys..hell a monkey could do that.</P> <P>Maybe you should be slamming group mechanics and not soloing...</P> <P> </P>

Kenazeer

08-22-2006, 07:40 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tomanak wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Emerix wrote:<BR> well .. not sure what to say here . yes i am level 70 and yes its very hard to find groups sometimes .. as a euro on us servers . but uhm .. increase solo exp ? on green and blue stuff ?<STRONG> 80 % of the new level 70s have absolutely no idea how to play their class</STRONG> . i mean .. trying to heal an arcana DOT with a elemental group cure and stuff like that . because it said group in the describtion ... arent the first 70 levels meant to make sure that people know how to play their class ? leveling is allready way too easy . WoW-izing the game more wont help .<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Firstly, there is absolutely no correlation between soloing and an inabilty to play your class. In fact I would argue that the opposite is true. When I dont have a tank/healer/DPS crutch to help kill mobs I have no choice but to learn my class in detail in order to survive without that help.</P> <P>If I understand you correctly you are saying that too many people level to 70 without learning how to play their class. Id say that is actually the fault of groups rather than soloers. I gain XP 10 times faster in a group..ergo those who group all the time will hit that level 70 cap without knowing their class as well as they should much faster than a soloer. So this argument is fallicious. In 2 days of soloing I can get maybe a level. If I group for those 2 days, I can get 3+ levels and thats w/o vitality.</P> <P>Again as stated I learn less about my class in a group. As a Dirge or even a Warlock, I learn absolutely nothing about the best way to cure arcane or even debuff properly because I dont have to. I can as someone else pointed out, af/afk for 4 hours, do pretty much nothing but be physically present at the KB and gain XP at an amazing rate. The other day I joined a PuG in the clefts for 45 minutes and made 60% XP...60% for doing basically nothing more onerous than cycling through my attack keys..hell a monkey could do that.</P> <P>Maybe you should be slamming group mechanics and not soloing...</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>There is an absolute correlation between the ablility to play your class and soloing/grouping. You can understand all the nuances and ins and outs of your solo abilities, but that does not carry over completely to a group setting. I am not saying it would cripple a person, but there is a correlation. If all a person ever did was solo, how would they know when/how to use their buffs and abilities which were uncastable on themselves. For example a solo tank goes "Intercept? What is that?"<BR><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class=date_text>08-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:41 AM</span>

Lynadianya Zeran

08-22-2006, 07:57 PM

Flotten

08-22-2006, 09:34 PM

<P>For the most part I like the changes even though it is easier.</P> <P>The industrial revolution made things easier too, yet try as I might I do not see my ancestors crying about it.</P> <P>Is EQ2 easy? Yes, but not when compared to the ease of WOW and then not as hard as EQ1. I think EQ2 is right where it should be difficulty wise with one exception, I liked the older crafting because due to the tedium less people did it. </P> <P>These changes were obviously made to attract more customers, therefore I am all for it. Yeah it does mean people who started Day one (I started at release and quit soon after) might have worked harder, but games are meant to be fun, not tedious. And no, getting a corpse in EQ1 was never fun. And in EQ2 it didnt help promote grouping to have the whole group take a hit when anyone died, same with the guilds, etc. Extreme death penalties do not make people more careful or better players, if it did then how about they add read death (your character goes to level one if he dies, just like in hardcore pvp MUDS, sound good?)</P>

Tomanak

08-22-2006, 09:35 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kenazeer wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>There is an absolute correlation between the ablility to play your class and soloing/grouping. You can understand all the nuances and ins and outs of your solo abilities, but that does not carry over completely to a group setting. I am not saying it would cripple a person, but there is a correlation. If all a person ever did was solo, <STRONG>how would they know when/how to use their buffs and abilities which were uncastable on themselves</STRONG>. For example <STRONG>a solo tank goes "Intercept? What is that?"<BR></STRONG> <P>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <SPAN class=date_text>08-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:41 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>On the tank I agree 100%. In order to be an effective tank you must group. In fact when discussing my toons I specifically did not mention my 60 Guardian for that very reason. He must group in order to be an effective MT. I was simply pointing out that one does not necessitate the other. I know plenty of pure groupers who have no idea how to use their buffs effectively. As a Warlock, for example, it matters not if I solo 90% of the time or 10% of the time, my effectiveness is based on my ability to lay down damage, the basic mechanics are the same regardless of whether I group a lot or not (with the exception of aggro management, but half the groupers I know ignore aggro management). </P> <P>I knew I would get dinged on my over generalization as soon as I wrote it, but the main point I wanted to get across is that you can not simply say primarilly soloing = bad grouping. Its a situaltional thing and varies based on the abilities of the person at the keyboard. I learn ALL of my skillsets, whether they are castable by me or not. If nothing else I wont know its not castable on me if I dont at least read the spell description. I may dismiss it then and not use it, but I would still know what it is. </P> <P>On my dirge which is a groupcentric class, I have learnt more about how my buffs work and what combination is the most effective by soloing. When I group I dont have to think, just hit. How does that make me better at understanding my class? </P> <P>To top it all off, if someone is primarily a soloer, who cares how effective they are in a group? Chances are they arent going to be grouping anyway...<BR></P>

RoadkillUSA

08-22-2006, 09:55 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Killerbee3000 wrote:<BR>there are classes that have to group to get somewhere and if they give more rewards for soloing (more exp in this case) then there will be less people willing to group, and its allready hard enough to find a good group. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>There will always be those quest that need groups to complete them. Those who choose to group can do so and those who choose to solo will do so. Why should a solo person get crappy xp just because some other peope prefer to group?</P> <P>On another note, about grouping, I hear the complaints about not being able to find a group, yet when a group is formed and 1 or 2 people in the group don't understand grouping all to well they generally get kicked from the group instead of being taught or trained on how to play in a group. Now if someone is trying and people are not willing to teach don't you think that may turn that person off to grouping in the game? I'm not talking about those people who are bull-headed and wont listen or think its fun messing with group members or even those who think they know everything. My guildie partner and i get complemented all the time from the people we pick up in group because we take the time to teach or explain things about grouping.</P> <P>I have seen way too many groups where its only about grinding and to heck with anything else, yet I see many of these same people cry how hard it is to find a group. The solution to making grouping popular again is to start training people on how to group, if you do not want to take the time to do this then you do not deserve a group and you are part of the problem and not the solution.</P> <P> </P>

Kenazeer

08-22-2006, 09:59 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tomanak wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kenazeer wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>There is an absolute correlation between the ablility to play your class and soloing/grouping. You can understand all the nuances and ins and outs of your solo abilities, but that does not carry over completely to a group setting. I am not saying it would cripple a person, but there is a correlation. If all a person ever did was solo, <STRONG>how would they know when/how to use their buffs and abilities which were uncastable on themselves</STRONG>. For example <STRONG>a solo tank goes "Intercept? What is that?"<BR></STRONG> <P>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <SPAN class=date_text>08-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:41 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>On the tank I agree 100%. In order to be an effective tank you must group. In fact when discussing my toons I specifically did not mention my 60 Guardian for that very reason. He must group in order to be an effective MT. I was simply pointing out that one does not necessitate the other. I know plenty of pure groupers who have no idea how to use their buffs effectively. As a Warlock, for example, it matters not if I solo 90% of the time or 10% of the time, my effectiveness is based on my ability to lay down damage, the basic mechanics are the same regardless of whether I group a lot or not (with the exception of aggro management, but half the groupers I know ignore aggro management). </P> <P>I knew I would get dinged on my over generalization as soon as I wrote it, but the main point I wanted to get across is that you can not simply say primarilly soloing = bad grouping. Its a situaltional thing and varies based on the abilities of the person at the keyboard. I learn ALL of my skillsets, whether they are castable by me or not. If nothing else I wont know its not castable on me if I dont at least read the spell description. I may dismiss it then and not use it, but I would still know what it is. </P> <P>On my dirge which is a groupcentric class, I have learnt more about how my buffs work and what combination is the most effective by soloing. When I group I dont have to think, just hit. How does that make me better at understanding my class? </P> <P>To top it all off, if someone is primarily a soloer, who cares how effective they are in a group? Chances are they arent going to be grouping anyway...<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Sorry if it came across as if I completely repudiating your view, I was just pointing out that to be "good" at grouping you really need to group, and vice versa solo. I agree with you <FONT color=#ffff00>"that you can not simply say primarilly soloing = bad grouping," </FONT>and was pointing out that in my view good soloing /= good grouping. One can know their class "solo"; one can know their class "grouped"; or better yet one can know both. :smileyhappy:</P> <P><BR> </P>

Kordran

08-22-2006, 10:32 PM

<P><EM>Is EQ2 easy? Yes, but not when compared to the ease of WOW and then not as hard as EQ1. I think EQ2 is right where it should be difficulty wise with one exception, I liked the older crafting because due to the tedium less people did it. </EM></P> <P>Only early on. That's why you saw a whole bunch of people start crafting when GU26 (or whichever) came out, but now the crafting zones (at least on my server) are pretty much as empty as they were before. After level 40, the tedium kicks back in, things are actualy <EM>slower</EM> because there's no more leveling off sub-components and it starts getting expensive; a single stack of coal at level 40 is 15gp, and it just goes up from there. Once people see that it actually requires a bit of an outlay of cash (you get most of that back, but to start a session you need to buy a good amount of fuel unless you want to keep running back to the NPC) and you're not dinging every 15-20 minutes like you do at the lower levels, they lose interest fast.</P> <P>There's a lot more low-level crafters dabbling in things, but not on the high end.</P>

Cowdenic

08-22-2006, 10:34 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kordran wrote:<BR> <P><EM>Is EQ2 easy? Yes, but not when compared to the ease of WOW and then not as hard as EQ1. I think EQ2 is right where it should be difficulty wise with one exception, I liked the older crafting because due to the tedium less people did it. </EM></P> <P>Only early on. That's why you saw a whole bunch of people start crafting when GU26 (or whichever) came out, but now the crafting zones (at least on my server) are pretty much as empty as they were before. After level 40, the tedium kicks back in, things are actualy <EM>slower</EM> because there's no more leveling off sub-components and it starts getting expensive; a single stack of coal at level 40 is 15gp, and it just goes up from there. Once people see that it actually requires a bit of an outlay of cash (you get most of that back, but to start a session you need to buy a good amount of fuel unless you want to keep running back to the NPC) and you're not dinging every 15-20 minutes like you do at the lower levels, they lose interest fast.</P> <P>There's a lot more low-level crafters dabbling in things, but not on the high end.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>only doing the crafting thing so far for the heritage quests.</P> <P>Yes I am a quest junkie.</P>

Killerbee3000

08-22-2006, 10:46 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Cowdenicus wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Killerbee3000 wrote:there are classes that have to group to get somewhere and if they give more rewards for soloing (more exp in this case) then there will be less people willing to group, and its allready hard enough to find a good group. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>it will still be more beneficial to group than solo xp wise. That being said there is ZERO reason why people who prefer or need to solo, should recieve the drastically reduced rate of xp they are gaining now on live.</p> <p>If you cannot find people to group with you, may I advise you that you may need to solo a little more to properly learn your class.</p> <p>I soloed my first 40 levels on my first 2 toons, with the exception of some nek castle at 35-40 on my templar. Now I am arguably one of the better healers on my server. Not because I am uber or something, but I clear dots and effects, I know exactly how every buff and debuff work. I took the time out to learn what combines best with what. </p> <p>Maybe you should also.</p><hr></blockquote>look, i cant let you get away what you said, i solo all the tiome when not raiding, i do know how to play my class. and that i cant find people to group with me is that during my main play time im raiding and the rest of the time when im online the servers are almost empty. and if you know that you have to cure dots and debuffs grats, but everyone knows that. and as a matter of fact being a member of a raiding guild doesnt automatically mean that people in that guild are willing to group with me or with anyone at all. also, to get into the guild you have to be lvl 70, so , no, all my lower lvl alts cant even group with guildies and therefore require pickup groups. . </div>

Kriddle Kraddle

08-22-2006, 10:57 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RoadkillUSA wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<BR> <DIV>Honestly why make leveling easier than it already is? This game is becoming more and more dumbed down everyday.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ccff00>Increasing xp for solo players is not dumbing down the game. It gives the soloer a the ability to level a bit faster. A person can level fast in a group, does this also dumb down the game?</FONT><BR><BR> Give people a reason to group up instead of play an MMO alone. <BR><BR><FONT color=#ccff00>There are already reasons to group. To complete non solo quests, faster and better xp than soloing (even with the new update). Chance to get better loot.</FONT><BR><BR><BR>What is the reason for playing an MMO if you arent willing to group with people now and then?<BR><BR><FONT color=#ccff00>Why do people believe that a mmorpg</FONT> (<B>Massively-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game) </B><FONT color=#ccff00>is defined as a grouping game? All it means is there are other people interacting with each other ,in real time, while playing the same game. I like to talk with people in chat but does that mean I also have to group to do that? I like helping other players when I see them in trouble but do I have to be in a group to do that? I like to tradeskill but do I have to have a group for that?</FONT><FONT color=#ccff00><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ccff00>I do group from time to time but I don't want to have to rely on a group to get good xp. As long as I am paying my subscription fee and not breaking any rules, I will play the way I like to play and if that is to solo way too fast to 70 and miss content in the game thats my choice. If I feel I'm leveling to fast I can stop questing and fighting mobs or simply turn off combat XP. My choice, nobody else is forcing me to play the way I like.</FONT><BR><BR> It wont be long till fabled is dropping off solo mobs that is better than drops off epics.</DIV><BR><FONT color=#ccff00>We all know this will never happen and does not help support your argument against the change.<BR><BR></FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Thats right go ahead and attack me for giving a valid point. You even went as far as saying you like to tradeskill which has nothing to do with adventure xp and you arent supposed to group for that. Sure go ahead trade skill all you want alone because that is how it was built. Also it dumbs down the game by giving solo players the ability to level as fast as grouped players. Also you say other reasons for grouping are quests and its still faster xp? How do you know its still faster? Have you been playing characters of the exact same level and testing this? Also have you tried to kill lower level double up mobs? And for that one person that said I never solo well you are wrong. The thing is I solo all the time to farm masters but I have been 70 for awhile now because leveling is so easy. Took all of 6 days for me to go from 60-70 and takes the average person what 15 days maybe? I could probably get a level 1 character to 70 in about 3-4 weeks but thats just not fast enough for these solo players. Oh and btw I would be solo the entire time.</P> <P>As for your dumb little arguement about MMOs defined as grouping well ya that is sorta the point. Also if you read the entire statement I made I said group <STRONG><U>now and then</U></STRONG> not all the time. If you are having trouble getting xp find a group and get that level. Oh yeah and your little statement about helping people when you see them in trouble. They wouldnt be in trouble if you would have grouped with them in the first place.</P>

ZeyGnome

08-22-2006, 10:58 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RoadkillUSA wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<BR> <DIV>Honestly why make leveling easier than it already is? This game is becoming more and more dumbed down everyday.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ccff00>Increasing xp for solo players is not dumbing down the game. It gives the soloer a the ability to level a bit faster. A person can level fast in a group, does this also dumb down the game?</FONT><BR><BR> Give people a reason to group up instead of play an MMO alone. <BR><BR><FONT color=#ccff00>There are already reasons to group. To complete non solo quests, faster and better xp than soloing (even with the new update). Chance to get better loot.</FONT><BR><BR><BR>What is the reason for playing an MMO if you arent willing to group with people now and then?<BR><BR><FONT color=#ccff00>Why do people believe that a mmorpg</FONT> (<B>Massively-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game) </B><FONT color=#ccff00>is defined as a grouping game? All it means is there are other people interacting with each other ,in real time, while playing the same game. I like to talk with people in chat but does that mean I also have to group to do that? I like helping other players when I see them in trouble but do I have to be in a group to do that? I like to tradeskill but do I have to have a group for that?</FONT><FONT color=#ccff00><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ccff00>I do group from time to time but I don't want to have to rely on a group to get good xp. As long as I am paying my subscription fee and not breaking any rules, I will play the way I like to play and if that is to solo way too fast to 70 and miss content in the game thats my choice. If I feel I'm leveling to fast I can stop questing and fighting mobs or simply turn off combat XP. My choice, nobody else is forcing me to play the way I like.</FONT><BR><BR> It wont be long till fabled is dropping off solo mobs that is better than drops off epics.</DIV><BR><FONT color=#ccff00>We all know this will never happen and does not help support your argument against the change.<BR><BR></FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Thats right go ahead and attack me for giving a valid point. You even went as far as saying you like to tradeskill which has nothing to do with adventure xp and you arent supposed to group for that. Sure go ahead trade skill all you want alone because that is how it was built. Also it dumbs down the game by giving solo players the ability to level as fast as grouped players. Also you say other reasons for grouping are quests and its still faster xp? How do you know its still faster? Have you been playing characters of the exact same level and testing this? Also have you tried to kill lower level double up mobs? And for that one person that said I never solo well you are wrong. The thing is I solo all the time to farm masters but I have been 70 for awhile now because leveling is so easy. Took all of 6 days for me to go from 60-70 and takes the average person what 15 days maybe? I could probably get a level 1 character to 70 in about 3-4 weeks but thats just not fast enough for these solo players. Oh and btw I would be solo the entire time.</P> <P>As for your dumb little arguement about MMOs defined as grouping well ya that is sorta the point. Also if you read the entire statement I made I said group <STRONG><U>now and then</U></STRONG> not all the time. If you are having trouble getting xp find a group and get that level. Oh yeah and your little statement about helping people when you see them in trouble. They wouldnt be in trouble if you would have grouped with them in the first place.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Have you tested the exp changes on Test yet?</P> <P>No?</P> <P>Okay.</P> <P> </P>

Kriddle Kraddle

08-22-2006, 11:06 PM

<P>Sigh it doesnt matter if I have or not. My point is it doesnt need to be changed. Xp is easy enough to get as it is so no change is needed. Ever heard the phrase "Dont fix it if it aint broke" well that sure seems like it fits here.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Seems like everytime SOE tries to fix something they break something else so stop fixing things that arent bugged, overpowered, etc and start fixing issues that need fixing.</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Kriddle Kraddle on <span class=date_text>08-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:09 PM</span>

Kordran

08-22-2006, 11:18 PM

<DIV>Let's just say, for example (and not that this is even the case) that they made the XP for killing a solo blue con mob the same as killing a solo yellow con mob. How, exactly, does that affect your gameplay? How does that make the game easier? Because some stranger is leveling a bit faster?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The objections to this change all come down to the same fear: if it's easier to solo, no one will want to group with me. Sure, things like "game balance" and "challenge" and "if it's not broken, don't fix it" are said, but the real underlying motivation against the change is that some people seem desperately concerned that they're not going to be able to find a group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If people were primarily soloing before, they're not going to group with you regardless, and there's really no way to force someone to group. All you end up really doing is forcing them out of the game. It was a different story 6-7 years ago when EQ1 was the 800 lb. gorilla and if you enjoyed this genre, your options were limited. That's no longer the case, obviously.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: The other aspect of this is that in just the last year, the level cap has been raised from 50 to 70. EQ2 itself is designed for a level cap of 200. At some point you have to expect that they're going to make it easier for folks to level up, because if players are forced to hold to the same progression rate as they were back when the level cap was lower, that means it's going to take them months longer to reach the higher tier content -- which means fewer expansions sold, and more cancellations because may players won't see the point in spending another 3 months to hit the level cap, and then a couple months later a new expansion is released and they're right back on the treadmill. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Presumably, they want to make it easier for the low-DPS soloers to level to 70 because they'd actually like those folks to pay for and experience the higher tier content. And when the next expansion after Faydwer is released, they'll probably raise the level cap to 80 and some point after that make it easier for lower level folks to get there. It is not in SoE's best financial interest to have a bunch of players languishing at the lower levels with no hope of seeing all the bright, new shiny content.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Leveling is not a contest. It is a process.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Kordran on <span class=date_text>08-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:26 PM</span>

missionarymarr

08-22-2006, 11:26 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<BR> <P>Sigh it doesnt matter if I have or not. My point is it doesnt need to be changed. Xp is easy enough to get as it is so no change is needed. Ever heard the phrase "Dont fix it if it aint broke" well that sure seems like it fits here.</P> <P>Message Edited by Kriddle Kraddle on <SPAN class=date_text>08-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:09 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Hum you know what it matters because in your earlier statement you made it sound like they had raised Solo XP to the same as Group. Since that is know where near the truth your whole argument is useless. To level extremely quickly you are still going to have to group that hasn't changed at all. All that is being changed is you will level a little faster solo then you were before. Also I would say for some classes that can handle tougher opponents they aren't going to notice much if any change at all to the rate they level well solo. <BR>

ZeyGnome

08-22-2006, 11:27 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<BR> <P>Sigh it doesnt matter if I have or not. My point is it doesnt need to be changed. Xp is easy enough to get as it is so no change is needed. </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>In your opinion.</P> <P>You cannot comment on any change if you have not tried it. Well, obviously you can.</P> <P>With 100% vitality and the 150 bonus on Test, it is noticable. Without Vitality and with /toggle_bonus_exp it is not.</P> <P>There are a lot of things that don't sound right on paper, but are different in practice. Without actual experience, your complaints are unfounded.</P> <P> </P>

ZeyGnome

08-22-2006, 11:30 PM

<P>And Moorgard made a comment on another thread about this:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=111900#M111900" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=111900#M111900</A></P> <P> </P>

Permanent

08-22-2006, 11:30 PM

<DIV>I just wanted to add that I don't think that its a soloer not knowing how to play their class but more that soloing vs grouping are 2 very different mechanics in the game. Firstly, I don't really understand why anyone with very strict playstyles would even want to play a game like this. Some of my best memories come from EQ1 groups, meeting people, laughing, and learning what other classes could do. If my schedule is hectic I'd much rather pay 40-50$ once and play a game where I could save my progress and never need to worry about lfg or slow xp soloiing. I've also never been in a group where if someone explained they had a baby to take care of, dinner inc, or such anyone in the group was ever mad or annoyed. Some people say I only have an hour of play and once again nor I or anyone in group protested that fact. Find a replacement when its getting close to the time you need to go and if not its ok, would generally be the reply. To each is their own though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The real problem comes from a majority of solo classes or even duoers I have grouped with (not every soloer or duoer) on my server that is very good at soloing but join a group for a quest or something and has no idea what the OTHER classes can do or what they can do to assist the other classes in performing their jobs more effectively. My main is a tank and there are several occasions where one or two group members just haven't had enough experiance playing with other people that they do things detremental to the group. This doesn't mean they don't know what their group spells do but when you get used to a pattern or playstyle when it comes to grouping the habit of solo play comes naturaly. Healers who do not have group cures on their hotbars, scouts who need to be reminded of agro control and agro transfers, casters who immediatly nuke or over-nuke, classes with pets using their tanking pet causeing placement of the mob to bounce, and monk classes who play with agro stances, ect.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a scout class alt and unfortunatly from when I began playing my tank to the time I started my alt its really hard to form a group or find one (2-3 people lfg it seems). Its a shame because I've met some of the coolest people grouping and experianced some really fun times. Yes, sometimes I group with guildies but I'm a real social person who likes meeting NEW people too. I wouldn't like to see these numbers decrease even more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ofcourse there are some soloers who either have a ton of alts and have had group oriented characters who do play their classes very well when they join a group. I'm just hoping the experiance increase isn't so significant players decide it would be more beneficial to just solo because a MMO is kinda based on community. Without community its like a world full of freelance workers and no ability to achieve, have fun with other people, and work interdependantly. </DIV>

Kriddle Kraddle

08-22-2006, 11:41 PM

<DIV>Okay so what happens when all these people that solo all day hit level 70? Now they have something new to complain about which will be loot or my class isnt as powerful as another class. That brings me to my next point. What about those classes that cant solo very well and need a group? Now they cant get one because everyone wants to solo because they can. Also your post linking Moorgard is worthless. Moorgard is an avid solo/duo person so it makes sense that he wants this change. Anyway it doesnt matter what I say because those people that like to solo will keep coming back with the same arguement because they dont want to put in the time or effort that others put in. The main issue I see here is that the xp has been increased more than once and everytime the same arguements come into play. Why not take away the bonus xp from grouping instead of raising the solo xp? There are plenty of other ways to fix things without making them easier.</DIV>

Oakum

08-22-2006, 11:43 PM

<DIV>Hmm, guess trying to quote by hitting the submit button doesn't work very well. lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as knowing your class and the ability to play it yes, anyone who only solo, groups, or (if it was possible) raids do not learn ALL of their class and abilities. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DPS do not have to worry about aggro management if they solo. A DPS grouper does not have to worry about knowing the aggro range of a social mob since a tank is going to pull it to a safe area for them to burn it down anyway. A raider doesn't have to worry about one person dying in the raid causing a wipe unless possiblly its a tank. A healer does not have to worry about maximizing damage if they are in a group or raid but has to solo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As other people said, those who solo dont have to worry about buffs that can only be cast on other people. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A defiler and inquisitor can out dps a warden (which they are not supposed to but that is a matter for other threads) but unless someone raids and sees the parses when most healers are just dpsing (which is rare) due to fighting trash mobs that are debuffed and tank wearing all fabled they dont know that and a some of those classes actually think wardens do more dps. Is that because they don't know their class or is it because they don't know all facets of their class. How would a soloer know that unless he/she read it on the forums. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only way to really fully know class and its abilities is to play all three ways. A person does learn most of what they can do with any play style. Just not all the same things that a different playstyle would know. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Oakum on <span class=date_text>08-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:05 PM</span>

ZeyGnome

08-22-2006, 11:47 PM

Kriddle Kraddle

08-22-2006, 11:55 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ZeyGnome wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<BR> <DIV>Okay so what happens when all these people that solo all day hit level 70? Now they have something new to complain about which will be loot or my class isnt as powerful as another class. That brings me to my next point. What about those classes that cant solo very well and need a group? Now they cant get one because everyone wants to solo because they can. Also your post linking Moorgard is worthless. Moorgard is an avid solo/duo person so it makes sense that he wants this change. Anyway it doesnt matter what I say because those people that like to solo will keep coming back with the same arguement because they dont want to put in the time or effort that others put in. The main issue I see here is that the xp has been increased more than once and everytime the same arguements come into play. Why not take away the bonus xp from grouping instead of raising the solo xp? There are plenty of other ways to fix things without making them easier.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Did you ever think it's not about the solo exp why its so hard for you to find a group? </P> <P>I bet you tell people how to play their classes too, right?</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>First off what does this have to do with anyhting I said? Second nice assumption.</P> <P>1) The reason its so hard is because this game is becoming so pathetic and things arent getting fixed that need to be so people quit. Oh yeah and its not hard for me to find a group. Thats because I talk to people, make friends, and have fun in groups.</P> <P>2) No, I do not tell people how to play their class unless they are doing something really stupid like playing a primary healer on a raid but not healing and instead nuking. Or maybe telling a caster not to nuke a mob for 30k on incoming before I get a single taunt off. Other than idiotic things like this I do not tell people how to play their class but thanks again for making an assumption of someone you know nothing about.</P><p>Message Edited by Kriddle Kraddle on <span class=date_text>08-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:56 PM</span>

TaleraRis

08-23-2006, 12:03 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<BR> <DIV>Anyway it doesnt matter what I say because those people that like to solo will keep coming back with the same arguement because they dont want to put in the time or effort that others put in. <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Excuse me while I laugh at this.</P> <P>I could sleep in the pickup groups that I occasionally find myself in. I put in tons more effort soloing because I have to be sensible with pulls, think quickly, react in a fast enough manner to not die, and just in general pay attention to what I'm doing and my surroundings. The most I have to worry about in a group is staying behind the mob and controlling my damage so I don't pull aggro.</P> <P>So I am putting the time and effort in. I'm taking the path of more resistance, rather than the path that lets you coast along racking up levels night after night after night. Which is why I'm still 54 after over a year of playing.</P> <P> </P> <P>I also find it amusing you think this change will make solo xp anywhere near comparable with group xo. That right there tells me that you have no experience soloing and are basing all your opinions of leveling strictly on grouping.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by TaleraRis on <span class=date_text>08-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:04 PM</span>

Flotten

08-23-2006, 12:04 AM

<DIV> <DIV>I'm confused why people think it was so hard in the beginning?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For me, when the game was released I left for various reasons shortly after. But I do know people who have stayed since it started, and they are of course max level, but in their opnion it wasnt hard at all. They leveled fast because they had close knit groups, nothing was hard about it, ever, according to them. They did say that soloing is now much easier, but grouping is still faster and will always be the fastest way to level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I dont get it, they said it was never hard (so long as you grouped). Are the only people crying about the changes people who soloed the hard way?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They put leveling speed at this game harder than WoW but easier than EQ1, but it was always that way (according to them). Grouping will always be the fastest way to level, and old timers did not "work" as hard as they are trying to lead you all to believe.</DIV></DIV>

Dirtgirl

08-23-2006, 12:22 AM

<FONT color=#ffcc66>Access quests right off the top of my head. /shrug That made alot of it easier for soloers a few months ago.<BR>You used to have to wait until a specific level to access EL and FR if you didnt group to get the access done.And the access wasnt a cake walk.<BR>And in reaching those levels (if i remember correctly) you had to kill alot of very low xp mobs in order to get to that level since you didnt have access to mobs of a decent xp amount without that access. That was a very big change for soloers already.</FONT><p>Message Edited by Dirtgirl on <span class=date_text>08-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:27 PM</span>

Kriddle Kraddle

08-23-2006, 01:06 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TaleraRis wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<BR> <DIV>Anyway it doesnt matter what I say because those people that like to solo will keep coming back with the same arguement because they dont want to put in the time or effort that others put in. <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Excuse me while I laugh at this.</P> <P>I could sleep in the pickup groups that I occasionally find myself in. I put in tons more effort soloing because I have to be sensible with pulls, think quickly, react in a fast enough manner to not die, and just in general pay attention to what I'm doing and my surroundings. The most I have to worry about in a group is staying behind the mob and controlling my damage so I don't pull aggro.</P> <P>So I am putting the time and effort in. I'm taking the path of more resistance, rather than the path that lets you coast along racking up levels night after night after night. Which is why I'm still 54 after over a year of playing.</P> <P> </P> <P>I also find it amusing you think this change will make solo xp anywhere near comparable with group xo. That right there tells me that you have no experience soloing and are basing all your opinions of leveling strictly on grouping.<BR></P> <P>Message Edited by TaleraRis on <SPAN class=date_text>08-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:04 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>All I have to say to you is if its so freaking hard to solo then get a group and stop [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing. Another good reason to group is to learn what other people can do. So many times has my guild added a new member that thought they knew everything about the game and how their class worked and tried to tell us what they should do on raids. I remember one guy very well that wanted to use a strat where you use intercept type skills on the MT so they could spread the damage around. Back when he said this it was the dumbest idea ever because the damage was not mitigated and most people would be one shotted for 10000 damage. I just cant wait till all the people that complain they have to solo because they cant find groups or they dont want to find groups because they are freakin lazy get to max level and want to raid. They will have no clue what to do and probably wipe the entire raid in a matter of seconds. I'm done with this arguement because you all say grouping is easier, better xp, better loot, etc etc etc but all you want to do is solo. You have already convinced yourself that you should group but you just dont want to and that is your choice to make.</P> <P>If you want the hard path by all means take the hard path but dont complain about it when you know there is a better way.</P>

Magic

08-23-2006, 01:46 AM

<P>I agree with everyone who wrote about solo play being different from group play. It seems that many players don't realize this fact. Group players can't understand why soloists solo. I, being a soloist, can't understand why groupers group! Strange but true. This game allows us to play as we prefer, and that's great.</P> <P>In my own personal opinion, a solo player is actually superior to a group player. As many have already said, and to which I totally agree, a solo player is forced to learn their class in greater depth than a group player because there is no healer, tank, DPS, buffers, and whatnot there to help with the fight. It's you alone who determines the outcome, with a little help/hinderance from the random number generator.</P> <P>Combat XP comes so fast when grouping that I can't understand why anyone would want to group in the first place. Sure, grouping is social and the teamwork helps to bond the players, but why rush only to hit the level 70 level limit sooner? From then on you're doing what I do already at level 8; farming for fabled or better gear. I have the advantage of discovering the complete loot table of any mob, with combat XP disabled, and can allow my level to increase for the next mob and repeat the process. At level 70, you're stuck there. Sounds boring to me, especially since I don't raid.</P> <P>I solo exclusively and that is totally by preference. I certainly play for far more hours than most soloists. There is so much for me to do in this game that I actually don't have time to group or have conversations with anyone.</P>

Kordran

08-23-2006, 02:08 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<BR> <DIV>... That brings me to my next point. What about those classes that cant solo very well and need a group? Now they cant get one because everyone wants to solo because they can. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If people group, it's because they have to <EM>want</EM> to group, not because they're forced to group. And from your various posts, you seem to laboring under the misconception that grouping is somehow difficult or displays a level of skill above that of the soloer.</P> <P>I have said this before, but unless you're the main tank or healer in the group, you can go on autopilot and it's doubtful anyone would even notice. Not holding aggro or healing are fairly obvious, but a DPS class can be half-asleep at the wheel and unless you're doing really tough mobs, no one will even be aware that you're off grabbing a beer at the fridge (except if someone's running a parser). It takes zero brains to run a DPS class in this game, with perhaps the exception of the crowd-control casters. Target through the MT, wait for the taunts and then let the spamming begin. Personally, I found grouping with my Wizard was such an astronomically boring experience, I just ended up deleting him.</P><p>Message Edited by Kordran on <span class=date_text>08-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:10 PM</span>

missionarymarr

08-23-2006, 02:14 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<BR> <DIV>Okay so what happens when all these people that solo all day hit level 70? Now they have something new to complain about which will be loot or my class isnt as powerful as another class. That brings me to my next point. What about those classes that cant solo very well and need a group? Now they cant get one because everyone wants to solo because they can. Also your post linking Moorgard is worthless. Moorgard is an avid solo/duo person so it makes sense that he wants this change. Anyway it doesnt matter what I say because those people that like to solo will keep coming back with the same arguement because they dont want to put in the time or effort that others put in. The main issue I see here is that the xp has been increased more than once and everytime the same arguements come into play. Why not take away the bonus xp from grouping instead of raising the solo xp? There are plenty of other ways to fix things without making them easier.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>We have said this once already have you tried these changes. Have you tried to solo a character exclusiveley. I can tell you anyone who has soloed a character to say level 45 has put in a lot more time then someone who has grouped to get there. That will still be true after this update as well. I hate the argument that because we feel a change like this is good that we want things easier or we aren't willing to put the time into the game. This change will allow a player who solos exclusively to level quicker but it still won't make it more effecient to solo then to group and in the end that is the most important thing to remember about this change. This will have little to no effect on your playstyle and if it does you know what turn off combat xp.<BR>

TaleraRis

08-23-2006, 02:42 AM

<blockquote><hr>Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<div></div> <p>I'm done with this arguement because you all say grouping is easier, better xp, better loot, etc etc etc but all you want to do is solo. </p> <hr></blockquote>Of course. I want to solo because I enjoy being challenged when I play a game, not playing it on Easy Mode. I like working for my exp and having to plan my attacks, rather than just being another cog in the wheel in a group and watching my exp bar fly. It means much more to me to get 10 or 20% in a night and have really put my all into it, than to get a group chain killing yellow and orange heroics and have only needed to put in half the effort. Unlike others, I don't solo out of necessity. I could group if I wanted to. I play nearly every night, for hours at a time (at least until tomorrow and college classes start up again) and have no family committments to keep me off the computer. I solo because that is the preferred playstyle for me, due to the fun I have while doing it. <div></div>

Leawyn

08-23-2006, 03:15 AM

<DIV>You guys missed my point, but my post is so far buried, not sure you even remember it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I said the AVERAGE player (someone who plays 2-2.5 hours a night, 2-3 nights a week) is probably generally grouping, completing what quests would benefit them, and checking out some cool zones. The non-average people do things like quest alot, hit every HQ, solo exclusively, or raid exclusively.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Merely an average person will find themselves leveling fast. Add in that now solo exp will go faster, these average players will find themselves leveling even faster.</DIV>

ZeyGnome

08-23-2006, 03:18 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Merely an average person will find themselves leveling fast. Add in that now solo exp will go faster, these average players will find themselves leveling even faster.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>And what is wrong with that?</P> <P><BR> </P>

Gorhauth

08-23-2006, 05:21 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Leawyn wrote:<div>You guys missed my point, but my post is so far buried, not sure you even remember it.</div> <div> </div> <div>I said the AVERAGE player (someone who plays 2-2.5 hours a night, 2-3 nights a week) is probably generally grouping, completing what quests would benefit them, and checking out some cool zones. The non-average people do things like quest alot, hit every HQ, solo exclusively, or raid exclusively.</div> <div> </div> <div>Merely an average person will find themselves leveling fast. Add in that now solo exp will go faster, these average players will find themselves leveling even faster.</div><hr></blockquote>By the reports from the testers, the increase isn't nearly enough so that the AVERAGE player (someone who plays 2-2.5 hours a night, 2-3 nights a week and probably grouping) won't even notice the difference. The people that will notice the difference are those that solo or duo extensively. Why is that a bad thing? Grouping is still a lot better in every way, soloing is just slightly less painful.</div>

RoadkillUSA

08-23-2006, 06:34 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> RoadkillUSA wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> Kriddle Kraddle wrote: <div>Honestly why make leveling easier than it already is? This game is becoming more and more dumbed down everyday.<font color="#ccff00">Increasing xp for solo players is not dumbing down the game. It gives the soloer a the ability to level a bit faster. A person can level fast in a group, does this also dumb down the game?</font> Give people a reason to group up instead of play an MMO alone. <font color="#ccff00">There are already reasons to group. To complete non solo quests, faster and better xp than soloing (even with the new update). Chance to get better loot.</font>What is the reason for playing an MMO if you arent willing to group with people now and then?<font color="#ccff00">Why do people believe that a mmorpg</font> (<b>Massively-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game) </b><font color="#ccff00">is defined as a grouping game? All it means is there are other people interacting with each other ,in real time, while playing the same game. I like to talk with people in chat but does that mean I also have to group to do that? I like helping other players when I see them in trouble but do I have to be in a group to do that? I like to tradeskill but do I have to have a group for that?</font><font color="#ccff00"></font><font color="#ccff00">I do group from time to time but I don't want to have to rely on a group to get good xp. As long as I am paying my subscription fee and not breaking any rules, I will play the way I like to play and if that is to solo way too fast to 70 and miss content in the game thats my choice. If I feel I'm leveling to fast I can stop questing and fighting mobs or simply turn off combat XP. My choice, nobody else is forcing me to play the way I like.</font> It wont be long till fabled is dropping off solo mobs that is better than drops off epics.</div><font color="#ccff00">We all know this will never happen and does not help support your argument against the change.</font> <hr> </blockquote></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Thats right go ahead and attack me for giving a valid point.</p><p><font color="#ccff00">I was not attacking you, I was responding to your post in disagreement.</font></p><p> You even went as far as saying you like to tradeskill which has nothing to do with adventure xp and you arent supposed to group for that.</p><p><font color="#ccff00">A little sarcasim never hurts anyone. Yes you are right you need not group and xp and ts xp are not the same.</font></p><p> Sure go ahead trade skill all you want alone because that is how it was built. Also it dumbs down the game by giving solo players the ability to level as fast as grouped players. </p><p><font color="#ccff00">How do you know solo players will be leveling as fast as grouped players? Even if it did,so what. There are no rules stating that you must be grouped to level fast.</font></p><p>Also you say other reasons for grouping are quests and its still faster xp? How do you know its still faster? Have you been playing characters of the exact same level and testing this? Also have you tried to kill lower level double up mobs?</p><p><font color="#ccff00">Why yes, I have 6 toons over on the test server and have been playing with the new changes there. Have you? If your answer is no then I suggest you try the changes on test before you talk about fast leveling due to added solo xp.</font></p><p> And for that one person that said I never solo well you are wrong. The thing is I solo all the time to farm masters but I have been 70 for awhile now because leveling is so easy. Took all of 6 days for me to go from 60-70 and takes the average person what 15 days maybe?</p><p><font color="#ccff00">Well good for you, you leveled 60 - 70 in 6 days, that doesnt mean every other person soloing can do it also. Some people it may take them a month to gain 10 levels.</font></p><p> I could probably get a level 1 character to 70 in about 3-4 weeks but thats just not fast enough for these solo players. Oh and btw I would be solo the entire time.</p><p><font color="#ccff00">Ok go ahead and do it and make sure you get it well documented and come back here with the results please. Make sure you do it on a server with no alts</font>.</p> <p>As for your dumb little arguement about MMOs defined as grouping well ya that is sorta the point. </p><p><font color="#ccff00">Not sure what your saying here. Are you agreeing with me that MMORPG is not defind as a grouping game or that you disagree with me and think it is ment for grouping more so than soloing?</font></p><p>Also if you read the entire statement I made I said group <strong><u>now and then</u></strong> not all the time. If you are having trouble getting xp find a group and get that level. </p><p><font color="#ccff00">The idea behind the change is so that people don't have to be forced to find a group to get the xp.</font></p><p>Oh yeah and your little statement about helping people when you see them in trouble. They wouldnt be in trouble if you would have grouped with them in the first place.</p><font color="#ccff00">Now I find this funny, most of the people I do help are all grouped. I help with the extra adds if they don't have there encounter locked. I aslo help out the solo player that gets that extra add or two. This statement you made sounds like people should not be soloing at all and is not valid since groups get into trouble while fighting also.</font><hr></blockquote></div>

RoadkillUSA

08-23-2006, 06:41 AM

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <p>Sigh it doesnt matter if I have or not. My point is it doesnt need to be changed. Xp is easy enough to get as it is so no change is needed. Ever heard the phrase "Dont fix it if it aint broke" well that sure seems like it fits here.</p> <p><span class="time_text">Seems like everytime SOE tries to fix something they break something else so stop fixing things that arent bugged, overpowered, etc and start fixing issues that need fixing.</span></p><p>Message Edited by Kriddle Kraddle on <span class="date_text">08-22-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:09 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>So your saying something you have not tested or even tried makes your argument right while those who have been trying and testing the change are wrong in their arguement?</div><p>Message Edited by RoadkillUSA on <span class=date_text>08-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:44 PM</span>

Kizee

08-23-2006, 05:05 PM

<P>I laughed when people say it takes more skill to solo than to group. </P> <P>You are going to tell me that killing blue and green solo mobs is more challenging than killing groups of yellow heroics when you are in a group? Please.... /rolls eyes</P> <P>The only thing that soloing does is make it so that player doesn't know how to play his class in a group... a wizard that doesn't know how to hold back nukes because he could chain them when he was soloing... a tank that doesn't know how to cycle targets to keep agro or pull agro off a caster asap.... a scout that pulls agro all the time or hits evac at the slightest sign of trouble ect ect.</P> <P>This game is becoming a joke.:smileyindifferent:</P> <P> </P>

CoLD MeTaL

08-23-2006, 07:07 PM

<blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote:Hahaha...noob. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />66 Paladin created December 7, 2004.<hr></blockquote>Hehe, my 58 Paladin was created 12/22/2004. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ( yeah, eq2 was a christmas present i snuck into lol )Course I have played him much since Game Nerf 13, but that is for another thread.<p>Message Edited by CoLD MeTaL on <span class=date_text>08-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:14 AM</span>

TaleraRis

08-23-2006, 07:14 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>You are going to tell me that killing blue and green solo mobs is more challenging than killing groups of yellow heroics when you are in a group? Please.... /rolls eyes</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Where did anyone say they only solo green and blue mobs? I solo whatever is available, many times that is even or yellow either single or groups of down arrow mobs. As a DPS class, I can handle this sort of solo encounter. And it's much more of a challenge than a chain pulling group sitting in one spot where all I have to remember are to dodge in now and then for my melee attacks when ranged is down, get behind the mob to maximize my ability to do back attacks, and not pull aggro. I have to be much more on my toes and have quick fingers at the keyboard (I don't use macros) plus I have to position myself accordingly and intelligently when I solo.</P> <P>Pickup groups in this game for me have been Easy Mode, requiring very little thought or skill. Which is why I usually tend to avoid them. I don't play to be bored.<BR></P>

Kizee

08-23-2006, 07:22 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TaleraRis wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Pickup groups in this game for me have been Easy Mode, requiring very little thought or skill. Which is why I usually tend to avoid them. I don't play to be bored.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You haven't been in a good group pushing the limits of what they can do then. Of course if you are in a 6 man group pulling solo mobs then you are going to get bored (it has happened to me) </P> <P>To me soloing is boring because you mash the same buttons over and over again....at least in a group you can mix it up alittle.<BR></P>

Kordran

08-23-2006, 08:58 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>You haven't been in a good group pushing the limits of what they can do then. Of course if you are in a 6 man group pulling solo mobs then you are going to get bored (it has happened to me) </P> <P>To me soloing is boring because you mash the same buttons over and over again....at least in a group you can mix it up alittle.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Oh, nonsense. If you're in a "good group" then you have an MT who has very good gear, ad3/master taunts and buffs, and a healer who has ad3/master heals and is conscious. There's no "mixing it up" nonsense. The game is designed so that high yellow/low orange heroics are doable by a single group. It's only when you start getting into instanced nameds and epics that you actually see anything that even resembles requiring tactics or even an active thought process on the part of the DPS classes.</P> <P>The only time that trash heroics pose any challenge to a group is if (a) there's unexpected adds, (b) it's a non-standard group. But given that 98.3% of the players out there use the formulaic 1 tank, 1 healer, 4 dps or 1 tank, 2 healers, 3 dps configuration, your whole argument is a load of bollocks. Brushing my teeth in the morning is more difficult than grinding up on yellow heroics.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Kordran on <span class=date_text>08-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:01 AM</span>

Thamos Chordious

08-23-2006, 09:04 PM

<DIV>The bottom line as I see it</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Solo Exp can be painfully slow. You start to notice the slowdown in the 20's. It only gets worse from there. Sure folks seem to talk about how they can level up a character in no time at all but almost everyone saying that is experienced enough with the game that they know the tricks. When I start a new character I still play through the newbie quests. I don't race to some level. I don't buy collection items cheaply off the broker just to jump a few levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Solo players will solo - I am a solo player almost exclusively. Maybe I will get my monk to 70 or maybe I won't but if I do you know what I will be doing at 70? Yep, soloing. Maybe I won't know my class as well as others. I certainly won't know the ins and outs of grouping, especially in raids. But you raid players are safe because I will not be asking to join your raids. I will be soloing for the same reasons I solo now. I assume that most, if not all solo players will be doing the same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This change should not impact groups - For every person whose preference it is to solo through the game there is another who finds soloing in a multiplayer game sensless. Those folks will always group for the same reasons the solo players solo. In addition, grouping will still be the preferred method to get the most exp and the best gear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lastly, nobody really knows for sure what significantly means. At level 43 when my monk kills some greens he may as well be killing a gray. The exp is that small. They could raise it significantly and I may still cringe at how little exp I get</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Kordran

08-23-2006, 09:15 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thamos Chordious wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lastly, nobody really knows for sure what significantly means. At level 43 when my monk kills some greens he may as well be killing a gray. The exp is that small. They could raise it significantly and I may still cringe at how little exp I get</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The XP from killing solo greens is so low, they could double it (perhaps even triple it) and I don't know that it would make a noticible difference except over the long haul. Some people seem to be going around with this notion that they're changing it so that killing a green will net you 1% of level at 40 and will therefore render grouping obsolete.

Asif

08-23-2006, 09:33 PM

<P>Wy do people care if they are raising exp for soloing? I do both with my Troub tho i tend to group with him as they suck solo and with my conjuror and i can do either .</P> <P>I think its a good idea to raise exp for greens tho as i have a 61lvl conj and a troub who is only 53 ( i mentor alot to help guildies out) so have not reached cap lvl yet and i am in no hurry to get there.This will speed it up abit tho <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Also why to people care if the new folks have to have it as hard as us who started on day 2 since EQ2 went online as i did i know i sure dont care <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>This is just my 2 cents worth anyway <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

Oakum

08-23-2006, 09:42 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>I laughed when people say it takes more skill to solo than to group. </P> <P>You are going to tell me that killing blue and green solo mobs is more challenging than killing groups of yellow heroics when you are in a group? Please.... /rolls eyes</P> <P>The only thing that soloing does is make it so that player doesn't know how to play his class in a group... a wizard that doesn't know how to hold back nukes because he could chain them when he was soloing... a tank that doesn't know how to cycle targets to keep agro or pull agro off a caster asap.... a scout that pulls agro all the time or hits evac at the slightest sign of trouble ect ect.</P> <P>This game is becoming a joke.:smileyindifferent:</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Depending on your class, yes. My class can take white and yellowed normally as long as they are not in groups of 2 or more. Other classes a blue and high green is a challenge. Especially without legendary/adept3/master 1 lvl equipment. </P> <P>I solo about 50 percent of the time, mostly when farming or doing quest line. I find it funny but the people complaining the most about the rise in xp those who group usually. If you really want challenge, then reduce the xp from groups to the same lvl as solo and remove all dungeon xp bonus.</P> <P>If you are primarily a grouper, then this change really does not effect you. The same people who group just for the extra xp will still group for it. The soloers will be closer to being able to get the same xp as a grouper but IT WILL STILL NOT BE EQUAL. That is what most people seem to fail to understand. Maybe poeple who mainly group are afraid their will be less people they can look down upon as being "slow levelers" and so not as good a player as they are. </P> <P><BR> </P>

Leawyn

08-23-2006, 09:46 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakum wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Maybe poeple who mainly group are afraid their will be less people they can look down upon as being "slow levelers" and so not as good a player as they are.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Why do you constantly do that? Why do you just HAVE to insult people when there is no reason to. I do NOT look down on people who solo or who level slower than me. I don't know anyone that does. So get off your "I solo and i'm cooler than those silly groupers" soapbox.</P> <P>I don't really care about the change because it doesn't affect me directly. I just don't see the logic behind it. If you look closely, btw, they didn't say the green mob change applied to ONLY solo green mobs. Its all green mobs. So people who grind on heroic greens (thus netting more than .00000001% like a solo green) will grind faster. If its "significant" like they said, i can see how people would opt to solo on green heroics rather than join an exp group.</P>

CoLD MeTaL

08-23-2006, 10:01 PM

<blockquote><hr>Kordran wrote:Oh, nonsense. If you're in a "good group" then you have an MT who has very good gear, ad3/master taunts and buffs, and a healer who has ad3/master heals and is conscious.<hr></blockquote>Apparently Kordran doesn't get into PUGs very often, or I would like to find his/her kind of PUGs. Most PUGs you are lucky if the tank has adept 1 taunts, and the healer has adept 1 heals.I don't call that a "Good Group", I call that an "Uber dream from heaven group" if the tank/healer has master anything.This change will not affect you, Kordran, beased on your response. You will never notice, so let others, not so uber, have a chance already.

Kizee

08-23-2006, 10:04 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kordran wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>You haven't been in a good group pushing the limits of what they can do then. Of course if you are in a 6 man group pulling solo mobs then you are going to get bored (it has happened to me) </P> <P>To me soloing is boring because you mash the same buttons over and over again....at least in a group you can mix it up alittle.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Oh, nonsense. If you're in a "good group" then you have an MT who has very good gear, ad3/master taunts and buffs, and a healer who has ad3/master heals and is conscious. There's no "mixing it up" nonsense. The game is designed so that high yellow/low orange heroics are doable by a single group. It's only when you start getting into instanced nameds and epics that you actually see anything that even resembles requiring tactics or even an active thought process on the part of the DPS classes.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>/shrug. IMO there is no reason for everybody not to have all adept3 now adays since SoE made it the standard when they upped the rare rates thru the roof.</FONT></P> <P>The only time that trash heroics pose any challenge to a group is if (a) there's unexpected adds, (b) it's a non-standard group. But given that 98.3% of the players out there use the formulaic 1 tank, 1 healer, 4 dps or 1 tank, 2 healers, 3 dps configuration, your whole argument is a load of bollocks. Brushing my teeth in the morning is more difficult than grinding up on yellow heroics.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Yeah if you are careful.... I like the groups that are crazy and pull entire rooms of mobs and see if we can live thru it since death is meaningless anyways. Groups are what you make of them.... I still think groups are more exciting than soloing all the time.</FONT></P> <P><BR> </P> <P>Message Edited by Kordran on <SPAN class=date_text>08-23-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:01 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

Oakum

08-23-2006, 10:04 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ZeyGnome wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kriddle Kraddle wrote:<BR> <DIV>Okay so what happens when all these people that solo all day hit level 70? Now they have something new to complain about which will be loot or my class isnt as powerful as another class. That brings me to my next point. What about those classes that cant solo very well and need a group? Now they cant get one because everyone wants to solo because they can. Also your post linking Moorgard is worthless. Moorgard is an avid solo/duo person so it makes sense that he wants this change. Anyway it doesnt matter what I say because those people that like to solo will keep coming back with the same arguement because they dont want to put in the time or effort that others put in. The main issue I see here is that the xp has been increased more than once and everytime the same arguements come into play. Why not take away the bonus xp from grouping instead of raising the solo xp? There are plenty of other ways to fix things without making them easier.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>1) The reason its so hard is because this game is becoming so pathetic and things arent getting fixed that need to be so people quit. Oh yeah and its not hard for me to find a group. Thats because I talk to people, make friends, and have fun in groups.</P> <P>Message Edited by Kriddle Kraddle on <SPAN class=date_text>08-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:56 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The one thing you dont seem to get is that not everyone wants to or even can can group. </P> <P>Would you find a group acceptale where the main tank had to go afk every 5 or ten minutes for an unknown length time to check on kids, changes diapers, clean and bandaid a scratch or calm a toddler who fell over and bumped his head? Would you understand, if after 2 hours of fighting your way to sothis and the healer stopped healing to get his or her child who just woke up and is crying so the group wiped when sothis was almost dead. Or would you say being in the group is more important then a 3 month old baby? Would you understand someone may have an incurable disease like crohn's which means they not be able to wait more then a minute if they need to go to the bathroom and can go up to 10 times a day if its flaring up?</P> <P>Also not every one wants to group either. In eq1 grouping was expected and soloing was for a select few chosen classes. EQ2 was never the same style game. It was made to accomadate the solo playstyle as well as the group and even has changed several times already to work on balancing it. This is just another balancing change. </P> <P>While different playstyles have different advantages, no one play style should be so unbalanced that another can easily earn 10 times the xp plalying it with possibly raiding since most people are at cap or close to it when they raid anyway. That is basically what we have right now between soloiing and grouping, a huge imbalance in how fast people can get xp depending on their class. </P> <P>Another thing people seem to think is that just because they dont solo, no one complains and who cares if they do. Soloers are not real players who actually pay for their accounts like they do. I have read a whole bunch of threads in the past about solo xp so I know thats not true. <BR></P>

Tomanak

08-23-2006, 11:26 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kenazeer wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry if it came across as if I completely repudiating your view, I was just pointing out that to<STRONG> be "good" at grouping you really need to group</STRONG>, and vice versa solo. I agree with you <FONT color=#ffff00>"that you can not simply say primarilly soloing = bad grouping," </FONT>and was pointing out that in my view good soloing /= good grouping. One can know their class "solo"; one can know their class "grouped"; or better yet one can know both. :smileyhappy:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>No argument from me there. As a 50/50 player who both groups and solos I may be blind to the fact that there are nuances of grouping that people who dont group simply dont get. I simply dont understand why someone wouldnt learn EVERYTHING about their archtype.</P> <P>As soon as I read your initial response, I harkened back to a guild tank who ground from 40-50 in Harclaves and wasnt worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] when he emerged. When I get in a PuG and discover a mage who consistently overnukes or a MT who doesnt watch for adds etc, I dont think "hmm they must be soloers" I just think they are crappy players.</P> <P>The thing I think a lot of the detractors on this thread dont seem to see is that those who didnt solo primarily before arent going to suddenly become soloers based on these changes. When I can earn 60-70% XP in an hour solo and earn 50+ GP in vendor trash in that same time, I will become a primary soloer.</P> <P>To those who keep insisting that grouping is so much more challenging than grouping, Im sorry I have to disagree. In my main guild group consisting of a 70 Paladin, Troubadour, Templar, Mystic, Wizard and Warlock we burn through heroic ^^^ groups so fast it get boring, and thats not even an optimal group makeup. I for one was glad to see additions like Nizzarhs and the new Nek simply to give us a challenge. When you can read a book and clear HoF at the same time, its not a challenge its a loot run.</P>

Kizee

08-23-2006, 11:54 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tomanak wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>To those who keep insisting that grouping is so much more challenging than grouping, Im sorry I have to disagree. In my main guild group consisting of a 70 Paladin, Troubadour, Templar, Mystic, Wizard and Warlock we burn through heroic ^^^ groups so fast it get boring, and thats not even an optimal group makeup. I for one was glad to see additions like Nizzarhs and the new Nek simply to give us a challenge. When you can read a book and clear HoF at the same time, its not a challenge its a loot run.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I agree that SoE needs to make some more zones that are challenging like niz and nek 3.</P> <P>You don't even need a full group to clear all the non epic instances. My and my 2 friends can clear every instance except niz (haven't tried nek 3 yet) as a trio without any problem. I can assume that we could probally do nek 3 as a trio since the mobs don't hit overly hard .....they just have a ton of hps.<BR></P>

Kordran

08-24-2006, 12:03 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CoLD MeTaL wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kordran wrote:<BR>Oh, nonsense. If you're in a "good group" then you have an MT who has very good gear, ad3/master taunts and buffs, and a healer who has ad3/master heals and is conscious.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Apparently Kordran doesn't get into PUGs very often, or I would like to find his/her kind of PUGs. Most PUGs you are lucky if the tank has adept 1 taunts, and the healer has adept 1 heals.<BR><BR>I don't call that a "Good Group", I call that an "Uber dream from heaven group" if the tank/healer has master anything.<BR><BR>This change will not affect you, Kordran, beased on your response. You will never notice, so let others, not so uber, have a chance already.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Come on now. Adept 3s are trivial to get. The rares are cheap to buy and easy to harvest. Now, I'm not saying that every single spell line should be upgraded sub-60, but for a tank there is absolutely no reason not to upgrade your taunts; for a healer, there's absolutely no reason to not upgrade your primary heals. Failure to do that is just (a) laziness, (b) laziness or, possibly (c) laziness.</P> <P>And by the way, I do pickup groups. When starting groups and I'm playing my tank, I look for a healer I know and fill the rest with any DPS class. When I'm playing my healer, I look for a tank I know and fill the rest with any DPS class. Simple, works like a charm. No "uberness" required.</P> <P>Finally, I'm <EM>for</EM> the XP changes for soloers. I think that they have the right to progress at a reasonable pace, just like those who group often. My point was that it's nonsense to say that grouping is some sort of higher evolved form of gameplay that requires more skill on the part of the players. They've made grouping so brain-dead simple in EQ2, if anyone seriously sees group play as challenging, then ... well, honestly I wouldn't know what to say. Perhaps MMOGs are not for them.</P>

TaleraRis

08-24-2006, 04:13 AM

<blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote: <div>You haven't been in a good group pushing the limits of what they can do then. Of course if you are in a 6 man group pulling solo mobs then you are going to get bored (it has happened to me) </div> <hr></blockquote>Every group I've been in has taken on yellow and orange ^^^ heroic mobs. I remember a wild night in Ruins of Varsoon when I was a baby ranger where we stood in the hall and there were chain pulls from all around us. There were orange heroic mobs everywhere, but we wiped the floor with them. I joined groups a few levels ago in SS that chain killed the tarantulas and they were so effective, sometimes I barely got more than a few shots off. I've never been in a group that only pulls solo mobs unless I'm mentoring my boyfriend while we duo. And I get very bored in chain pulling groups because it requires very little effort from me to put out my best in a group. There are too many others who can make up where I lack, so the another cog in the works problem happens.<div></div>

CoLD MeTaL

08-24-2006, 06:21 PM

<blockquote><hr>Kordran wrote:Come on now. Adept 3s are trivial to get. The rares are cheap to buy and easy to harvest. ...<hr></blockquote>I would agree that the rares are not hard to get a hold of (mostly, they do still generally cost significant time or money once past t5) however finding a sage/jeweler/alchemist of appropraite level with the appropriate spell books scribe that is willing to do it for less than a) an arm, b) a leg or c) an arm and a leg. Is the most challenging.My experience with PUGs is most of think they are 'fine' with App2.Your mileage may vary.<p>Message Edited by CoLD MeTaL on <span class=date_text>08-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:21 AM</span>

Kasandria

08-24-2006, 09:51 PM

It's my belief that people want to force others into groups because they feel that they cannot find a group otherwise. They don't realize that forcing others to play the game the way that they want is basically wrong. It's a matter of them wanting others to enjoy the game less so that they can enjoy the game more. I've never seen any talk about making grouping less desireable and yet there is consistantly folks who insist that soloing should be made less desireable. What actually amazes me is that these are the same folks who will then compain about how crapy solo players are at grouping>.. LOL!<p>Message Edited by Kasandria on <span class=date_text>08-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:56 AM</span>

Kasandria

08-24-2006, 09:51 PM

<DIV>:tap dances to amuse the crowd in passing: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just editing another multipost</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kasandria on <span class=date_text>08-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:59 AM</span>

dark integra

08-25-2006, 02:12 AM

<DIV>Most of those who argue that soloing is to fast are forgetting that they base it on twinks...whether it is mailing plat or crafting adept 3's and/or imbued gear for their alts. Plain and simple......make an alt on a fresh server and only play solo.....then voice your opinions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And why, if you mainly group/raid, is it such a big issue? The soloers will never challange your "uberness". They will not get fabled gear or ever be taking on epics that aren't grey. They have NO effect on you. They play in a different league and since they usually don't group, You most likely will never have any dealings with them.</DIV> <DIV>You won't even know they exsist. It's not like they are gonna level up real fast and steal your contested mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If ppl feel the need to complain, complain about something that actually affects you. Bugs, loot tables, timers, gimped spells, somthing that in anyway affects you. And no, I don't usually solo, I group more often than not with my guild, raid once a week and have fun. And yes, I twink the hell out of my alts. but what happens to soloers, which has no effect one me, is of no concern of mine............</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Bhagpuss

08-28-2006, 01:48 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> TaleraRis wrote: <div></div> <p>Pickup groups in this game for me have been Easy Mode, requiring very little thought or skill. Which is why I usually tend to avoid them. I don't play to be bored.</p> <hr> </blockquote> <p><font color="#ffff99">You haven't been in a good group pushing the limits of what they can do then</font>. Of course if you are in a 6 man group pulling solo mobs then you are going to get bored (it has happened to me) </p> <p>To me soloing is boring because you mash the same buttons over and over again....at least in a group you can mix it up alittle.</p><hr></blockquote>I have and while it has occasional appeal, it's not something I would want to do more than once in a while. I play EQ2 to relax, not to be "challenged" or "achieve" something. My prefered playstyle is duo or trio, which is interesting and easy, allowing plenty of time to chat. Failing that, I would prefer to solo. Full groups would be very much the least attractive option.I like a nice fight that comes close, but I don't want to have to think too hard about tactics or use a lot of mental or digital dexterity to win.I play on Test and Oasis, mostly on Test nowadays. I have seen the change to experience on green and blue mobs and I like it a lot. There are many other options in the game for players who like to do things the hard way, and, dare I say it, there are other games better suited to people who prefer to be "challenged". EQ2 is Sony's more laid-back fantasy MMO and I think that will be a successful and profitable direction for the designers to take the game.</div>

Kizee

08-28-2006, 04:41 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bhagpuss wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>I have and while it has occasional appeal, it's not something I would want to do more than once in a while. I play EQ2 to relax, not to be "challenged" or "achieve" something. <BR><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If I wanted to relax I would read a book....</P> <P>You NEED to be challenged or whats the point of playing a game?<BR></P>

Tomanak

08-28-2006, 06:54 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bhagpuss wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>I have and while it has occasional appeal, it's not something I would want to do more than once in a while. I play EQ2 to relax, not to be "challenged" or "achieve" something. <BR><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If I wanted to relax I would read a book....</P> <P>You NEED to be challenged or <STRONG>whats the point of playing a game</STRONG>?<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Its a game. You play it for entertainment. Different people want different things from their entertainment. Nascar is for me incomprehensible, but there are millions of people out there who consider it the best thing ever. <STRONG>You</STRONG> may NEED to be challenged, someone else may not. <BR></P> <P>There are some days I log on and do nothing but craft and chat. No challenge needed <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

TaleraRis

08-28-2006, 11:56 PM

UnVeil

08-29-2006, 06:39 AM

<P>WTG devs....</P> <P> </P> <P>An awesome change if you ask me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

Kizee

08-29-2006, 04:06 PM

<P>I don't know how fast you people want to level.</P> <P>I was about 10% into level 52 on by bruiser last night and cleaned out about 5 blue quests and by the time I finished I was 53.5 all solo.</P>

Kenazeer

08-29-2006, 04:53 PM

<P>I think it is safe to say challenge=risk. Those who don't want a challenge should receive appropriate rewards. As long as challenge(risk) vs. reward is balanced all things are fine.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class=date_text>08-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:56 AM</span>

Lynadianya Zeran

08-29-2006, 05:40 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kenazeer wrote:<BR> <P>I think it is safe to say challenge=risk. Those who don't want a challenge should receive appropriate rewards. As long as challenge(risk) vs. reward is balanced all things are fine.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <SPAN class=date_text>08-29-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:56 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>How does the game gauge challange? Should a Troub or some other non-solo friendly class get more solo experience than a monk or a conjurer because it is so much more of a risk to take on non-heroic yellows? Do non-solo friendly classes get some kind of bonus for stepping outdoors alone?</P> <P>Could I kill yellow no ups back in the day? Yes. Did it take me forever? Yes. Was there a significant chance of dying? Yes. Was it worth it? No. </P> <P>What was for me a very challanging encounter is the same amount of challange as a conji taking on a blue con triple up heroic. However, that conji (used as an example of a great solo class) gets far more xp than I get for the same risk. That triple up heroic also gives better loot. </P> <P>They are not giving greens and blues the same kind of reward as heroics. They are just giving us a little more reward for our risk. Just because a blue is no risk to a good solo class does not mean they are not a risk to a non-solo class who would like to occasionally get out there and do some solo quests. Since the game makes no distinction between classes in the risk v. reward scenario, it has to give the reward accross all classes and not just the classes where blues solo mobs can be a significant risk. (I had to stop doing the grifter quests for 4 levels in my 50s until I obtained enough masters to kill the one up blue conned caster at the end of one of the quests. I was stuck on that one and could not continue. Risk v. reward. I have the feeling that your swashie wouldn't have had any issues with it at all). </P> <P>So, as I have said before, if you are a good solo class who regularly eats heroics for breakfast, don't begrudge us our pittance. </P>

TaleraRis

08-29-2006, 07:13 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>I don't know how fast you people want to level.</P> <P>I was about 10% into level 52 on by bruiser last night and cleaned out about 5 blue quests and by the time I finished I was 53.5 all solo.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What quests and what were you fighting? I've been running through the Peacock series recently and most steps were blue. I didn't get nearly that much experience. Are these heroic blue quests and you're fighting heroic blue mobs? Non-designated blue quests and solo mobs?

Gorhauth

08-29-2006, 11:26 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote:<div></div> <p>I don't know how fast you people want to level.</p> <p>I was about 10% into level 52 on by bruiser last night and cleaned out about 5 blue quests and by the time I finished I was 53.5 all solo.</p><hr></blockquote>Try doing that with a class that doesn't excel at soloing like a bruiser does. I'm willing to bet you wouldn't have gotten near that much solo playing a shaman or perhaps bard. Don't compare what you can do as a bruiser to what others are doing untwinked with classes that don't solo as well.</div>

Kizee

08-29-2006, 11:52 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gorhauth wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>I don't know how fast you people want to level.</P> <P>I was about 10% into level 52 on by bruiser last night and cleaned out about 5 blue quests and by the time I finished I was 53.5 all solo.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Try doing that with a class that doesn't excel at soloing like a bruiser does. I'm willing to bet you wouldn't have gotten near that much solo playing a shaman or perhaps bard. Don't compare what you can do as a bruiser to what others are doing untwinked with classes that don't solo as well.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>/shrug</P> <P>If I was planning on soloing all the time I wouldn't play those classes....I would pick a class that solos well. </P> <P>I have no sympathy for people that roll "grouping" classes and wonder why they dont get exp very fast.</P> <P> </P> <P>To answer the previous person I was working on peacock quest to with a collection quest and a language quest thrown in there too.</P>

Kenazeer

08-29-2006, 11:59 PM

<DIV>Some classes just don't solo as effectively as others. Should SOE try to make it so that everyone solos equally well? Should they raise experience until all the solo-unfriendly classes are happy? Maybe, just maybe, people who rolled a group oriented class should understand they might not solo as well as others and seek out groups? Maybe these non-solo oriented classes should spec AAs for soloing? Maybe these classes should ask around and seek out ways/gear to maximize their DPS? Making changes to the whole game to satisfy individual perceptions and choices is a bad move in my book. If you find that your class does not solo very well, and that is what you derive the most pleasure from, then I think you rolled the wrong class. If both grouping and soloing are important to you, pick an appropriate class. I wish people would quit wanting the game to be so daggone vanilla and complaining they aren't happy that they can't do this or that as well as someone else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit :Nods at Kizee. You beat me to it as I had to get up from my desk in the middle of composing this.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class=date_text>08-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:02 PM</span>

Thamos Chordious

08-30-2006, 01:19 AM

<DIV>I don't see what the big deal is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets say a bard past a certain level has to kill greens to level. Lets just say it takes 1000 green kills to level. Meanwhile the conjurer is taking yellows sometimes yellow^ for 1% exp a kill and can level with 100 yellow kills.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sony significantly ups exp on green so now instead of killing 1000 greens he only has to kill 750. That would be a significant improvement indeed but it would not make the bard more desirable a soloer than a conjurer. It would not make the bard give up on groups because the solo EXP was so great!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This increase in green an blue experience is throwing the soloers a bone. It no way affects the game for for anyone else. It is not making all classes solo equally because the bard will still be fighting greens, while other classes take on blues, while yet others take on yellows.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The sky is not falling and I think this change, while being helpful, is not that big of a deal and I don't see why soo many people see it as such. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Lydiae

08-30-2006, 02:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P></P> <HR> <P>Kizzee Wrote:</P> <P>I was about 10% into level 52 on by bruiser last night and cleaned out about 5 blue quests and by the time I finished I was 53.5 all solo.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Completing quests has always given a lot of experience, that's not a fair comparison.</P> <P>This is for people who, incomprehensible as it seems, are grinding exp only by killing MoB's.</P> <P>So see how long it takes to get the same amount of experience if you're only killing green, solo-con MoB's.</P> <P>Message Edited by Lydiaele on <SPAN class=date_text>08-29-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>05:33 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Lydiaele on <span class=date_text>08-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:33 PM</span>

Lynadianya Zeran

08-30-2006, 03:26 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gorhauth wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>I don't know how fast you people want to level.</P> <P>I was about 10% into level 52 on by bruiser last night and cleaned out about 5 blue quests and by the time I finished I was 53.5 all solo.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Try doing that with a class that doesn't excel at soloing like a bruiser does. I'm willing to bet you wouldn't have gotten near that much solo playing a shaman or perhaps bard. Don't compare what you can do as a bruiser to what others are doing untwinked with classes that don't solo as well.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>/shrug</P> <P>If I was planning on soloing all the time I wouldn't play those classes....I would pick a class that solos well. </P> <P>I have no sympathy for people that roll "grouping" classes and wonder why they dont get exp very fast.</P> <P> </P> <P>To answer the previous person I was working on peacock quest to with a collection quest and a language quest thrown in there too.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>What you completely fail to realize is the fact that these are solo quests. Because I am a group character does that mean I am not allowed to do solo quests or it is just that I'm not allowed to get any xp reward for doing it (except for the paultry amount you get for turning in a green quest)? I walk up to a solo quest giver and he says, you're a troub, your're not allowed to be here. Move along and go slave yourself out to a pickup group because there is nothing worth your while here. Maybe that night I wanted to do something else with my time. Maybe I wanted whatever reward he was offering. I can't do the quest until it is green or blue to me, you can do it while it's still yellow. You get significantly more xp for the quest and the quest mobs while it's still yellow. Why are you telling me I can't get a little bit more xp for killing solo quest mobs when they are appropriate challange for me? Am I somehow taking away from your experience? Am I somehow taking away from your game? Is it what everyone is saying true and you're afraid that all the group characters will never want to group again because now we get so much uber experience from killing solo greens? </P> <P>You can do a solo quest in 1/3 the time that I can with very very little risk. I take much longer to do the same quest with much higher risk involved. And you are begrudging me a possible extra 1 or 2% xp? Think about that. I group. I will not stop grouping because of this. Needless to say, it would take me much more of a night to get that xp than you did.</P>

Lera

08-30-2006, 04:09 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Kenazeer wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div>Some classes just don't solo as effectively as others. Should SOE try to make it so that everyone solos equally well? Should they raise experience until all the solo-unfriendly classes are happy? Maybe, just maybe, people who rolled a group oriented class should understand they might not solo as well as others and seek out groups? Maybe these non-solo oriented classes should spec AAs for soloing? Maybe these classes should ask around and seek out ways/gear to maximize their DPS? Making changes to the whole game to satisfy individual perceptions and choices is a bad move in my book. If you find that your class does not solo very well, and that is what you derive the most pleasure from, then I think you rolled the wrong class. If both grouping and soloing are important to you, pick an appropriate class. I wish people would quit wanting the game to be so daggone vanilla and complaining they aren't happy that they can't do this or that as well as someone else.</div> <div> </div><span class="time_text"></span><hr></blockquote>Yes, they should, as far as possible, although in different ways - the mage has roots and high DPS; the priest can heal himself; the fighter can just sit back and take the damage. Not everyone picks a class based solely on the numbers, and many people who started back in November 2004 may not have played enough MMOs to really know what the roles of the various classes were, or how they fare in group and solo play. Sure, they could start over, but they'd lose everything gained since then, much of which is now gone from the game or only claimable once per account. Plus there's LU13, which severely nerfed many classes, including the paladin.</div>

Cowdenic

08-30-2006, 09:13 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kenazeer wrote:<BR> <DIV>Some classes just don't solo as effectively as others. Should SOE try to make it so that everyone solos equally well? Should they raise experience until all the solo-unfriendly classes are happy? Maybe, just maybe, people who rolled a group oriented class should understand they might not solo as well as others and seek out groups? Maybe these non-solo oriented classes should spec AAs for soloing? Maybe these classes should ask around and seek out ways/gear to maximize their DPS? Making changes to the whole game to satisfy individual perceptions and choices is a bad move in my book. If you find that your class does not solo very well, and that is what you derive the most pleasure from, then I think you rolled the wrong class. If both grouping and soloing are important to you, pick an appropriate class. I wish people would quit wanting the game to be so daggone vanilla and complaining they aren't happy that they can't do this or that as well as someone else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit :Nods at Kizee. You beat me to it as I had to get up from my desk in the middle of composing this.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <SPAN class=date_text>08-29-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:02 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You are absolutely correct. So in that very same thought train, I propose that based on risk vs. reward, classes that can solo very well only get a % of the normal xp when they solo, and classes that cannot solo well should recieve a multiplier to xp when they are soloing. </P> <P>I mean you wouldn't want all classes making the same xp off the same mobs would you? That would be so (let me find the word for it) "vanilla".</P>

Bagira

08-30-2006, 12:17 PM

I agree with Kizee.If you can't loose then you can't win. If you can't win it's a game any more.In last year EQ2 has been converted from good GAME to a nice messager with nice 3D graphics <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.Tell me what's a point of a game? Two choises:1. To win.2. To spend time.Before EQ2 was about (1), now about (2).If you don't agree with me, tell me what's your point for leveling up? Any reason?EQ2 becoms easier and easier. Too bad.<div></div>

Cowdenic

08-30-2006, 12:39 PM

missionarymarr

08-30-2006, 01:20 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bagira wrote:<BR>I agree with Kizee.<BR><BR>If you can't loose then you can't win. If you can't win it's a game any more.<BR>In last year EQ2 has been converted from good GAME to a nice messager with nice 3D graphics <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.<BR><BR>Tell me what's a point of a game? Two choises:<BR>1. To win.<BR>2. To spend time.<BR><BR>Before EQ2 was about (1), now about (2).<BR>If you don't agree with me, tell me what's your point for leveling up? Any reason?<BR><BR>EQ2 becoms easier and easier. Too bad.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have said this before I really think that a lot of people complaining about the game having no challenge are not your average player. Yes they have done things in the last while to reduce teduim and such. They have done these things though because I believe they are looking at the game as a whole and realizing although a certain minority might find the game to easy. A lot of people don't find it to easy and as such they are making changes to address the Majority. This particular change though I really think the people complaining about it should step back realize that it is not all that big change. Will not effect there playstyle in any particular fashion and then stop complaining.</P> <P>Now as to your point about why do I play. I play to finish quests to level my character and have fun. All the changes they have made in the last while haven't made the game much easier in my estimation. I still find levelling about the same as before. The only change that I have found might be considered making the game easier is some of the changes to Mobs spawning. The Return of the Light quest is the big one I can think of. Yes it is much easier to find the mobs for that quest now. You can say that makes things easier. I would say that it just reduces useless Teduim and that even though you can find the mobs a little easier they are still the same amount of challenge. Also by making them easier to find you will gain less XP then you would before since you won't be killing as many Mobs hoping for the one you need to spawn.<BR></P>

Kenazeer

08-30-2006, 04:15 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kenazeer wrote:<BR> <DIV>Some classes just don't solo as effectively as others. Should SOE try to make it so that everyone solos equally well? Should they raise experience until all the solo-unfriendly classes are happy? Maybe, just maybe, people who rolled a group oriented class should understand they might not solo as well as others and seek out groups? Maybe these non-solo oriented classes should spec AAs for soloing? Maybe these classes should ask around and seek out ways/gear to maximize their DPS? Making changes to the whole game to satisfy individual perceptions and choices is a bad move in my book. If you find that your class does not solo very well, and that is what you derive the most pleasure from, then I think you rolled the wrong class. If both grouping and soloing are important to you, pick an appropriate class. I wish people would quit wanting the game to be so daggone vanilla and complaining they aren't happy that they can't do this or that as well as someone else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit :Nods at Kizee. You beat me to it as I had to get up from my desk in the middle of composing this.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <SPAN class=date_text>08-29-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:02 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You are absolutely correct. So in that very same thought train, I propose that based on risk vs. reward, classes that can solo very well only get a % of the normal xp when they solo, and classes that cannot solo well should recieve a multiplier to xp when they are soloing. </P> <P>I mean you wouldn't want all classes making the same xp off the same mobs would you? That would be so (let me find the word for it) "vanilla".</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You mean sort of like the racial differences in EQ1? Bring them on as far as I am concerned.<BR>

K3mik4l

08-30-2006, 04:51 PM

Ehm.. well, I for one don't find the "fast leveling" thingie in killing green/blue solo mobs. It's not fast. Personally, I only kill those kind of mobs for quests, never just for exp.Those that think solo mobs give too much exp, go try killing those mobs for erm... I dunno, an hour? Just to get exp. And no, levels 1-20 don't count <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />What I do call fast however, is groups killing yellow/orange heroic mobs while having vitality. Vitality should decrease at a faster pace imo but that's another topic, hehe.Some people will always level fast, no matter what really. Some leveled fast when vitality wasn't even in game yet, some level fast with doing quests (me <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />), some level fast now.What do I do when I hit the cap? Ummm... personally, I raid. Outside raid times I tend to do quests that are in journal since the beginning of time <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> or help guildies with some quests. There's also the possibility to create an alt to see what another class has to offer etc.All in all it's quite pointless to agrue about fast leveling, what seems fast to some may not seem fast to another.

Thamos Chordious

08-30-2006, 09:22 PM

ZeyGnome

08-30-2006, 10:45 PM

<DIV> <P>You know this whole thing is not about them gaining exp too fast themselves, so they won't be turning off their exp gain. It's about other people gaining it too fast. </P> <P>Same reason why people on PvE servers complain about xxx class doing xxx. </P> <P>They lowered the XP gain in this patch, it's pretty much non-existant now again. Happy?</P> <P>I'll still catch up with your sorry butts, and still make you jealous, because it's not about the exp gain, it's about epeens.</P> <P>And not one of you people who were so up in arms about this even took 5 minutes to test it out before jumping on the bandwagon. If you had, you wouldn't have been so moronic in your responses making everyone think the exp gain was even close to group exp. It wasn't, and it' sure as heck isn't now. Not even sure it's even higher than it was originally anymore by the looks of it. </P> <P>Get on the test server. Then use /toggle_bonus_exp so that you are not egtting the inherent Test server exp bonus and then test it out. If you are not willing to do that, then shut up, because you have no idea what you're talking about. (Not that that will stop you, it never has on any other subject)</P> <P>/rollseyes</P></DIV>

Sokthul

08-31-2006, 11:25 AM

Bad change in my opinion. And this is coming from someone who rolled his first EQ2 char few weeks ago and that char is a troubador. Playing normally is already too fast leveling, I've had combat exp turned off lately as content was just flying by without me being able to take a peek before everything is grey conning.SoE should be reducing the exp rate, not increasing it.

TaleraRis

08-31-2006, 11:57 AM

Depends on your level. It slows down a lot at my level. I ran through a couple blue DoF quests, two tears grifter instances kiling everything inside and some random killing while for faction tokens and I only went up 15%. Most mobs I fought were blue groups of 2 arrow down or 3 arrow down, although I did have an even ^ and some even groups, such as the guards in Maj'dul. I consider it decent progress for the night, but it's nowhere near what I would get in a night's work in a group chain pulling heroics. I have to say that as a soloer, solo xp can use a boost. <div></div>

Lynadianya Zeran

08-31-2006, 05:57 PM

Ziviel

08-31-2006, 09:12 PM

I'm SOOOOO!!!!! glad XP is being increased for solo players... my warlock at level is so slow to level..that its somewhat hard to log in and play em anymore....<div></div>

JackBurtonBTLC

08-31-2006, 09:15 PM

for me, soloing is a key piece of my play experience. before I get a group, I solo, until I see an invite or an opportunity. Also being a dad, I have obligations to RL functions..and soloing on many days is my only option. I'm on for 20 minutes, then off for an hour, back on for 2 hours, then off till tomorrow, and thigns like that. I have rolled MANY alts because the high end solo experience...is a big drag...its too slow..IMO.... So...increasing solo XP is a VERY welcome fix to the game for me.<div></div>

sindarin

08-31-2006, 09:22 PM

WOOT! like above I solo quite abit and love to group, but XP IMO is a bit lagging in the solo area and is getting slower every level. One thing I have noted as well, is that good spells are becoming MORE and MORE expensive to get.. I suspect its because lots of players have lots of money while many players do not have any money (me being one of them) the impact is that it slows leveling down even more, can't buy the gear because its 3 plat for a +5 int dagger..doh..... or 10 plat for that spell...[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]..... so increasing solo xp experience will allow players to make due with weaker gear and still make good progress. I think this is a good update..and can not wait for it to go live..btw anyone know when the xp solo increase will be going live?<div></div>

Magic

09-01-2006, 12:02 AM

<P>For my style of play I'd say these changes are wonderful! </P> <P>I played my main alt at launch to gain levels but later realized that I was missing out on a lot of content. Now I have new alts, except for my main, and they're taking their time leveling. I disable combat XP while farming for gear that raises my primary stat. Once I'm satisfied with what I have, I'll enable combat XP and level up. Now it won't take so long to gain a level as it once was.</P>

missionarymarr

09-01-2006, 11:26 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sokthul wrote:<BR>Bad change in my opinion. And this is coming from someone who rolled his first EQ2 char few weeks ago and that char is a troubador. Playing normally is already too fast leveling, I've had combat exp turned off lately as content was just flying by without me being able to take a peek before everything is grey conning.<BR><BR>SoE should be reducing the exp rate, not increasing it.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well first as someone mentioned you didn't say what level you were and it does slow down once you get to about 30+. Also were you soloing or Grouping. My feeling is you were probalby grouping since I have now soloed 3 characters to mid 30 at the least and I must say I never felt I was flying through the content. At times solo I was wishing for a few more solo quests that were about my level to do. Quite often I have to go and work on green heroic quests on my own since their are no solo quests I can do at certain levels. I must say even though I solo a lot this change is not going to have a great deal of effect for me. I mostly solo white or yellow solo mobs now. With the occasional green heroic.

Sokthul

09-02-2006, 07:28 AM

<blockquote><hr>missionarymarr wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Sokthul wrote:<BR>Bad change in my opinion. And this is coming from someone who rolled his first EQ2 char few weeks ago and that char is a troubador. Playing normally is already too fast leveling, I've had combat exp turned off lately as content was just flying by without me being able to take a peek before everything is grey conning.<BR><BR>SoE should be reducing the exp rate, not increasing it.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well first as someone mentioned you didn't say what level you were and it does slow down once you get to about 30+. Also were you soloing or Grouping. My feeling is you were probalby grouping since I have now soloed 3 characters to mid 30 at the least and I must say I never felt I was flying through the content. At times solo I was wishing for a few more solo quests that were about my level to do. Quite often I have to go and work on green heroic quests on my own since their are no solo quests I can do at certain levels. I must say even though I solo a lot this change is not going to have a great deal of effect for me. I mostly solo white or yellow solo mobs now. With the occasional green heroic.<hr></blockquote>I was 27 when I blocked my exp, 29 now. Anyway, no, I don't do exp groups, few times I grouped in the dungeons to explore them. And unless the exp rate suddenly, magically, decreases by 500%+ or so at 35, it'll be too fast for my tastes. Maybe I got too used for early EQ1.

missionarymarr

09-02-2006, 03:07 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sokthul wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> missionarymarr wrote:<BR> <BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> <BR>Sokthul wrote:<BR>Bad change in my opinion. And this is coming from someone who rolled his first EQ2 char few weeks ago and that char is a troubador. Playing normally is already too fast leveling, I've had combat exp turned off lately as content was just flying by without me being able to take a peek before everything is grey conning.<BR><BR>SoE should be reducing the exp rate, not increasing it.<BR><BR> <HR> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well first as someone mentioned you didn't say what level you were and it does slow down once you get to about 30+. Also were you soloing or Grouping. My feeling is you were probalby grouping since I have now soloed 3 characters to mid 30 at the least and I must say I never felt I was flying through the content. At times solo I was wishing for a few more solo quests that were about my level to do. Quite often I have to go and work on green heroic quests on my own since their are no solo quests I can do at certain levels. I must say even though I solo a lot this change is not going to have a great deal of effect for me. I mostly solo white or yellow solo mobs now. With the occasional green heroic.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>I was 27 when I blocked my exp, 29 now. Anyway, no, I don't do exp groups, few times I grouped in the dungeons to explore them. And unless the exp rate suddenly, magically, decreases by 500%+ or so at 35, it'll be too fast for my tastes. Maybe I got too used for early EQ1.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hum could be you are to use to eq1 Gaining levels in eq2 has always been easier then eq1 in my experience anyways. The other thing I will say from playing quite a bit now I believe most of the experience you gain comes from quests which I do alot on my characters. I almost never just go out to kill monsters. Truth is I hardly ever fight monsters unless I need them for a particular quest. I still say this change is not going to make much a difference for the majority of players unless they are only ever fighting low level opponents.

Groovyjive

09-04-2006, 02:05 AM

<DIV>These changes sound really good to me. It would benefit my style of play.</DIV>

rakki

09-04-2006, 08:04 AM

I for one am gald there are fixing this solo xp issue. I dont know how many players just quit and log off after not being able to find a group, or just after there group falls apart.. Atleast now they will stay on a bit longer if they have other means of leveling up. That is the whole point to this game.. I dont care what anyone here says, 99% of the players want one thing.. max lvl characters and non stop raid content.. I also know alot of people who quit this game in the early going due to time constraints to play, and the hard core leveling.. I know theres some people who exploit there way to 70 by means of 5 mentors 8 hrs a day for a week straight... and then they complain they leveld too fast and missed content like that laywen fool... But if people like that find the game too easy to level, as a soe employee (if I was one) I would find and delete all his toons and watch him cancell his account cause there is no way he would grind again... Then the forums could be a peaceful place for people to post opinions without ex eq1 whiners constantly harassing and allways opposing other peoples opinions just because they are chasing some eq1 pre lucin high again that will never come... <div></div>

Sisaro187

09-04-2006, 02:39 PM

When is this going live im so excited?

Devilsbane

09-04-2006, 08:44 PM

<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> interstellarmatter wrote:<BR> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Experience Changes ***<BR><BR></FONT></STRONG>- While we feel that solo quests can be quite rewarding, we were not satisfied with the experience from solo combat alone, especially for those characters who prefer to target slightly lower creatures. Therefore, we have increased the experience earned in the following situations:<BR> * Non-Heroic creature experience has been increased slightly.<BR> * Experience for blue con creatures has been increased slightly.<BR><STRONG><FONT color=#66ff00> * Experience for green con creatures has been increased significantly.<BR></FONT></STRONG>- In addition, we also wanted to increase the reward for defeating the nastier foes you meet during raids. Therefore, epic creature experience has been increased significantly.<BR><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like the idea of getting decent xp off solo mobs. Might make those times that I can't find a group more pleasant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>My main problem is the line highlighted above. Ok, its good for troubs and templars to get more experience for what they perceive is the only thing they can kill (admittedly I haven't leveled either class beyond level 8, so I can't speak from experience) but in the end this is only going to facilitate powerleveling, and make it easier for morons who don't know how to play their class to get to 70 without ever seeing another soul. Because now they can kill ridiculously easy monsters (low greens) and get "significantly more" experience than they did before.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Get a clue it is the solo enthusiast who know their class better. Give a group junkie a blue con ^^^ solo named and he/she will whine for help. While the enthusiast will drink its blood at the victory drop while opening the master chest. :smileyvery-happy:</BLOCKQUOTE>

Lera

09-04-2006, 09:32 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Devilsbane wrote:<div></div><blockquote>Get a clue it is the solo enthusiast who know their class better. Give a group junkie a blue con ^^^ solo named and he/she will whine for help. While the enthusiast will drink its blood at the victory drop while opening the master chest. :smileyvery-happy:</blockquote><hr></blockquote>^^^ solo? Is there such a thing? I thought all the ^^^ were Heroic.</div>

missionarymarr

09-05-2006, 10:53 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lera wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devilsbane wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Get a clue it is the solo enthusiast who know their class better. Give a group junkie a blue con ^^^ solo named and he/she will whine for help. While the enthusiast will drink its blood at the victory drop while opening the master chest. :smileyvery-happy:</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>^^^ solo? Is there such a thing? I thought all the ^^^ were Heroic.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I believe he used the wrong terminology here. When he said solo I believe he was referring to just one Monster in the encounter group not a mob that is not heroic.

Triple Black

09-05-2006, 11:02 PM

<DIV>Here is my take on it. An Inquistor and i started about the same time ( I am a Coercer). I turned level 30 last night and she hit 39. With my vitality always near 100% I still could not keep up with her. I just do not have the time available to me that she does. Sure, she can mentor down and go back through all of the content she just finished, I wouldn't ask her to do that though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, if it allows me to keep pace, notice I said keep pace, not pass those that have more time, I'll be happy with it. Also, let's not for get that this does not help those who are trying to complete quests for AA, green quests do not give AA xp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, all it really helps are those that wish to grind out lower level mobs.</DIV>

Leawyn

09-06-2006, 12:17 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devilsbane wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Get a clue it is the solo enthusiast who know their class better. Give a group junkie a blue con ^^^ solo named and he/she will whine for help. While the enthusiast will drink its blood at the victory drop while opening the master chest. :smileyvery-happy:</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I had stepped out of this discussion a while ago, but you had to call me out. So here goes.</P> <P>I'm a group enthusiast. That being said, put a blue con ^^^ heroic in front of me solo, and i'll wipe the floor with it.</P> <P>Generalizations suck. Learn not to use them.</P>

Gorhauth

09-06-2006, 12:57 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Leawyn wrote:<p>Generalizations suck. Learn not to use them.</p><hr></blockquote>Says the person that thinks that getting pickup groups is easy for everybody so green and blue solo mob xp shouldn't be increased?</div>

Leawyn

09-06-2006, 01:21 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gorhauth wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote: <P>Generalizations suck. Learn not to use them.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Says the person that thinks that getting pickup groups is easy for everybody so green and blue solo mob xp shouldn't be increased?<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Quote me where I said that.

Lera

09-06-2006, 01:26 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Leawyn wrote: <P>I'm a group enthusiast. That being said, put a blue con ^^^ heroic in front of me solo, and i'll wipe the floor with it.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Not all classes can solo even green heroics. Try playing a paladin sometime.</P>

Leawyn

09-06-2006, 01:29 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lera wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Leawyn wrote: <P>I'm a group enthusiast. That being said, put a blue con ^^^ heroic in front of me solo, and i'll wipe the floor with it.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Not all classes can solo even green heroics. Try playing a paladin sometime.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I do :smileyhappy: Leawyn, lvl 70 pally, 50 AA's. And no, she can't solo a blue ^^^ Heroic. Well if it was undead and I was lucky and all my specials were up, I MIGHT be able to squeak by.

Gorhauth

09-06-2006, 03:51 AM

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Leawyn wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Gorhauth wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> Leawyn wrote: <p>Generalizations suck. Learn not to use them.</p> <hr> </blockquote>Says the person that thinks that getting pickup groups is easy for everybody so green and blue solo mob xp shouldn't be increased?</div> <hr> </blockquote>Quote me where I said that.<hr></blockquote>You didn't say it in those words, but you implied it. From page 4:<blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%">Leawyn wrote:The problem I see is that soloers always think the people who say the game is too easy is the "hardcore" people. I'm not hard core. I'm in a casual guild that raids 1-2 nights a week. I play often, and don't solo much, and I level extremely fast just from PUG's almost every day. I started fresh on my server just over 2 months ago, not knowing a single soul! And I joined my guild on my second day, and I was only level 10. I'm level 67 now, and that was with very little soloing, alot of grouping, and some questing. An "average" player, I believe, would follow my path. They may do more quests, or take longer to get groups, or solo more if they didn't have much time to play, but I would think an average player, about 2-2.5 hours of playtime a night, 3-4 nights a week, can hit level 70 in 4 months if they concentrate on grouping.<hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote></div><p>Message Edited by Gorhauth on <span class=date_text>09-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:52 PM</span>

Leawyn

09-06-2006, 11:43 AM

<blockquote><hr>Gorhauth wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Leawyn wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Gorhauth wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> Leawyn wrote: <p>Generalizations suck. Learn not to use them.</p> <hr> </blockquote>Says the person that thinks that getting pickup groups is easy for everybody so green and blue solo mob xp shouldn't be increased?</div> <hr> </blockquote>Quote me where I said that.<hr></blockquote>You didn't say it in those words, but you implied it. From page 4:<blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%">Leawyn wrote:The problem I see is that soloers always think the people who say the game is too easy is the "hardcore" people. I'm not hard core. I'm in a casual guild that raids 1-2 nights a week. I play often, and don't solo much, and I level extremely fast just from PUG's almost every day. I started fresh on my server just over 2 months ago, not knowing a single soul! And I joined my guild on my second day, and I was only level 10. I'm level 67 now, and that was with very little soloing, alot of grouping, and some questing. An "average" player, I believe, would follow my path. <font color="#3366ff"><i><b>They may do more quests, or take longer to get groups, or solo more if they didn't have much time to play,</b></i></font> but I would think an average player, about 2-2.5 hours of playtime a night, 3-4 nights a week, can hit level 70 in 4 months if they concentrate on grouping.<hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote></div><p>Message Edited by Gorhauth on <span class="date_text">09-05-2006</span> <span class="time_text">04:52 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I highlighted my own post to show you, Gor, that you are in fact wrong. No where do I say or even imply that getting a group is easy. I merely explained my own situation. I never said once whether getting a group was easy or hard. Some days, I went hours soloing between my LFG calls and searching the LFG window to see if I could find a tank or healer to start a group with. Some nights I logged in and did nothing but harvest or solo because I knew I wouldn't have time to commit to a group. I have never said getting a group was easy. I merely said getting experience is easy, and I still believe that. BTW, I'm now level 70, I got lvl 69 and 70 in the same day (admittedly a weekend with little else to do). And that was mostly soloing....<div></div>

missionarymarr

09-06-2006, 01:43 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gorhauth wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gorhauth wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote: <P>Generalizations suck. Learn not to use them.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Says the person that thinks that getting pickup groups is easy for everybody so green and blue solo mob xp shouldn't be increased?<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Quote me where I said that.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You didn't say it in those words, but you implied it. From page 4:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> Leawyn wrote:<BR><BR>The problem I see is that soloers always think the people who say the game is too easy is the "hardcore" people. I'm not hard core. I'm in a casual guild that raids 1-2 nights a week. I play often, and don't solo much, and I level extremely fast just from PUG's almost every day. I started fresh on my server just over 2 months ago, not knowing a single soul! And I joined my guild on my second day, and I was only level 10. I'm level 67 now, and that was with very little soloing, alot of grouping, and some questing. An "average" player, I believe, would follow my path. <FONT color=#3366ff><I><B>They may do more quests, or take longer to get groups, or solo more if they didn't have much time to play,</B></I></FONT> but I would think an average player, about 2-2.5 hours of playtime a night, 3-4 nights a week, can hit level 70 in 4 months if they concentrate on grouping.<BR> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Gorhauth on <SPAN class=date_text>09-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:52 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I highlighted my own post to show you, Gor, that you are in fact wrong. No where do I say or even imply that getting a group is easy. I merely explained my own situation. I never said once whether getting a group was easy or hard. Some days, I went hours soloing between my LFG calls and searching the LFG window to see if I could find a tank or healer to start a group with. Some nights I logged in and did nothing but harvest or solo because I knew I wouldn't have time to commit to a group.<BR><BR>I have never said getting a group was easy. I merely said getting experience is easy, and I still believe that. BTW, I'm now level 70, I got lvl 69 and 70 in the same day (admittedly a weekend with little else to do). And that was mostly soloing....<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes you never said getting groups was easy I will give you that. Yet you implied that the average player would group a lot. I am not so sure that is true and even if it is has nothing to do with this conversation. This whole thing is making soloing low level monsters a little more useful so many of you complaining about this change either haven't tested it or won't admit that in the end this change will not make getting experience solo anywhere near getting it in a group. You seem to feel that getting experience is easy right now. I don't feel that it is to fast to gain experience in this game and I almost never group. Obviously the DEVs also don't feel that gaining xp is to fast. The truth is that when you get right down to it this change is not going to have much effect on anyone unless they only ever solo low level mobs and then they will gain xp a little faster. I would be willing to admit that very few players solo green mobs now and very few will do so after. The experience you get is so little why bother. The truth is the best mobs to solo are always white or yellow you will get the best experience and if something drops you are more likely to find it useful then from green.</P> <P> </P>

kope

09-06-2006, 07:59 PM

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rakki wrote:<BR>That is the whole point to this game.. I dont care what anyone here says, 99% of the players want one thing.. max lvl characters and non stop raid content.. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <P>That whole concept has never made the slightest bit of sense to me. If so many people want to raid, then why not make a game JUST FOR THAT? Why have leveling at all? </P> <P>I for one happen to very much like leveling and the whole progressive RPG "thing." I have no idea what the percentages are among EQ2 players, but my guess is that many of the millions of people who AREN'T playing this game feel the same way. </P> <P>Making leveling faster doesn't help anything. Either make doing it more enjoyable (hence, the more time it takes the better) or why not just leave it off altogether and just make it the best possible raiding game there is? </P> <P>As for soloing, I may be the weirdo among this group, but I think of EQ2 as a game: I will never build my schedule around it, and when I want to log off, I log off. So raiding is out of the question and grouping is a rare indulgence. </P> <P>It's already impossible for one character to do all the quests before he levels through them as it is. What business sense does it make to rotate soloers even faster by rifling them through the game in less time? Once someone who enjoys leveling and/or soloing reaches the "raiding" level of the game, or at least the part where his tolerance or aggravation and tedium has been exceeded, he's gone. </P> <P>The soloing/leveling experience doesn't need to be FASTER; it needs to be BROADER. Why not let players have henchmen who eat experience and take up group slots? If that uses up significant server hardware then fine, charge something for the extra characters. It would be just like "multi-boxing" except infinitely less annoying to the people doing it as well as those around them who have no idea they are dealing with bots instead of fellow players. All it would take is expanding the "pet" system, and some rebalancing. </P> <P>Sony wouldn't have to create a single new single encounter to greatly expand their potential player base. Why is that a bad thing? Of course I understand why people who insist that "MMORPG" stands for "Forcing People To Group With Me" take a dim view of the people who want an online community instead of a commune. I'm just talking about the BUSINESS aspect of making the content accessible to a wider market. Seriously, how does that hurt?</P></DIV>