Timed Tradeskill writs?

[LowfyrWildforge]

<DIV>I hate to be a negative type person, but... are you serious?   Timed quests have always been my least favorite part of the game.   I really don't relish the idea of having to rush around to make a table.  This doesn't sound exciting, this sounds annoying.</DIV>

[valkyrja]

I love the idea!<div></div>

[SpritRaja]

<P>Where did you read about timed tradeskil quests? Personally love the idea. Would make crafting interesting. </P> <P>Would have to be a close thing though so that you would burn your progress almost making non-pristine just to beat the timer. For it to be fun.</P>

[Leawyn]

<DIV>I like the idea, it will make it more fun for me to tradeskill, as I feel tradeskilling is a horrible bore right now lol! If i actually had a time limit, whether I met it or not, it would at least keep me awake.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And for some reason, I don't think they're going to make it like a race. It will more likely be to deter people from picking up a writ and waiting 5 days to start it.</DIV>

[Calthine]

<P>Dymus posted in in the TS forums after the HoC Dev Chat.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=112726#M112726" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=112726#M112726</A></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dymus wrote:<BR> <DIV>To answer a couple things since there's some question about it.  The new writs will not have a timer that locks you out from getting another as the old ones did.  As soon as you complete one, you can pick up another.  Since the amount of time it takes to create an item doesn't vary an incredible amount (and there are no subcombines to factor in complication now) it is possible to set these up without a lockout since there are fewer variables.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The new writs are also going to require pristines to be created.  With the timer on these 'rush job work orders' it is possible to fail, thus the reason they can have decent rewards.  As these go up on the test server expect me to start asking for feedback on all aspects of them, I'd like them to be something people find useful and enjoyable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a final note, this system is going in instead of the selling items for status idea we had mentioned previously.  There was little, if any gameplay value to selling things to a vendor after creation.  In order to give that system some gameplay value we would have to tie it into some sort of supply and demand evaluation and have some ways to affect supply or demand.  This is not to say we wouldn't consider something like that for the future, but in a previous post I had mentioned going with smaller content driven systems with the tradeskills rather than larger code driven ones and this is where that has brought us.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P>

[bluenadzisback]

<DIV>also would stop peeps from runnin a macro to craft....some atleast..but yeah would be fun</DIV>

[Kenazeer]

<P> </P><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class=date_text>08-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:00 PM</span>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Kenazeer wrote:So why wouldn't it be a good idea for regular guild writs then? What makes a crafting writ so exceptional that it needs to be handled differently? IMHO the answer is that bots don't do guild writs. Would leaving the old writ system in place detrimentally affect anyone? Will the new system? If you beleive so, thank your fiendly tradeskill botter.<hr></blockquote>Actually, the main reason is so that they can reward with a larger reward than if you just crafted them normally and vendored them. At least, that's what it sounded like to me.

[Kenazeer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kenazeer wrote:<BR>So why wouldn't it be a good idea for regular guild writs then? What makes a crafting writ so exceptional that it needs to be handled differently? IMHO the answer is that bots don't do guild writs. Would leaving the old writ system in place detrimentally affect anyone? Will the new system? If you beleive so, thank your fiendly tradeskill botter.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Actually, the main reason is so that they can reward with a larger reward than if you just crafted them normally and vendored them. At least, that's what it sounded like to me.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That is what I heard as the justification also. I still think a "timed writ" sounds suspiciously like "we don't want bots to spam durability buffs and do these." I guess we will see how it all plays out.<BR></P> <P>Edit to add: Deleted my first post soon after posting it because I didn't want to de-rail the thread with my own personal "conspiracy theory," but you were just too darn fast. :smileyvery-happy:</P><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class=date_text>08-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:06 PM</span>

[Oakum]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kenazeer wrote:<BR>So why wouldn't it be a good idea for regular guild writs then? What makes a crafting writ so exceptional that it needs to be handled differently? IMHO the answer is that bots don't do guild writs. Would leaving the old writ system in place detrimentally affect anyone? Will the new system? If you beleive so, thank your fiendly tradeskill botter.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Actually, the main reason is so that they can reward with a larger reward than if you just crafted them normally and vendored them. At least, that's what it sounded like to me.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>That keeps the non tradeskiller adv/raider types from crying too much about the rewards. LOL. Second thought probably not. They will complain anyway if its anywhere near on par with what they can get farming mobs/instances. Oh well, life goes on. They will get over it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I seem to be a little mean spirited today. It will pass I am sure when I get behind the computer after work.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV>

[kyrr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LowfyrWildforge wrote:<BR> <DIV>I hate to be a negative type person, but... are you serious?   Timed quests have always been my least favorite part of the game.   I really don't relish the idea of having to rush around to make a table.  This doesn't sound exciting, this sounds annoying.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT face=Verdana color=#cc9900 size=3>I agree. I always hated timed quests. It <EM>is</EM> annoying to me as well. Looks like I <EM>still</EM> won't be doing writs.</FONT>

[Calthine]

Sounds a lot more fun to me than "make 10 of these" grind grind grind, rinse and repeat.

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Calthine wrote:<BR> Sounds a lot more fun to me than "make 10 of these" grind grind grind, rinse and repeat.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yep, now it will be "make 10 of these" quick grind, quick grind, quick grind, rinse and repeat.

[Finora]

<DIV>I'm personally looking forward to seeing what they will be like myself. It is so fast to make most items even to pristine I wonder how short the timer is going to be. I can not WAIT for them to be put on test server so I can get to churning some out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I especially like that there will be no wait to get a new one when you are done with the previous one.</DIV>

[Rijacki]

<div><blockquote><hr>Calthine wrote:<div></div>Sounds a lot more fun to me than "make 10 of these" grind grind grind, rinse and repeat.<hr></blockquote>It totally depends on how long the timer is.  If it's a race with barely enough time to complete the crafting, it would be highly frustrating for most withn the only effective way to do it being the use of macros which don' t have any human failabilities like hitting the wrong key at the wrong moment (and would encourage and reward botting for them rather than actual crafters).  If the timer is too long, then it would negate any reason for a timer.Remains to be seen.Since this is the 3rd method they have mentioned as the possible writ system for crafting, I'm not all that optimistic they're even going to -start- on the coding for it until after EoF is released (and at that point, they'll probably only make writs for the so-called secondary crafts since they'll be the only important ones anyway at that point).</div>

[Ebjelen]

How hard is it to stock up on harvest items and then crank out 10 items. Really? With a little thought you can have all the materials ready to go making that timer inconsequential. Well over 95% of what I craft is pristine anyway. It's only when I drift off and don't pay attention that I get less than top quality. So what's the big deal there? The simple fact is that harvesting got way too easy. I just started DWB HQ on a lvl 24 toon with 90ish harvestskills. I had the ore and timber in 5 minutes and all from right around Ardent Needle. It's not like pre-LU-24 where you would get a quest to harvest uncommon herbs that only had a 1 in 20 chance of dropping from a fungus node. The only challenge is getting to the harvest table quickly. We have ways to do that as well. It may require some investment in better transportation, but there's that balance thing again. Moreover, if we get some quests to harvest the food shrubs, more people will harvest the food shrubs making room for the other stuff. We did want motivation to harvest the shrubs didn't we?  I know I never went near the fungus nodes unless it was for a a harvest quest. <div></div>

[Gorhauth]

<div><blockquote><hr>Sunrayn wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Calthine wrote: <div></div>Sounds a lot more fun to me than "make 10 of these" grind grind grind, rinse and repeat. <hr> </blockquote>Yep, now it will be "make 10 of these" quick grind, quick grind, quick grind, rinse and repeat.<hr></blockquote>Anything to make it more engaging.  Right now crafting is so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] boring it is me hitting the go button, then either surfing the net on the other monitor or playing the DS until the sound that means an item is completed.  Hit return twice and then go about not playing the game trying to level up crafting.  At least timed writs will reward us with status or coin and make us pay attention.</div>

[Finora]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ebjelen wrote:<BR><BR>The simple fact is that harvesting got way too easy. I just started DWB HQ on a lvl 24 toon with 90ish harvestskills. I <FONT color=#ff6600>had the ore and timber in 5 minutes and all from right around Ardent Needle.</FONT> It's not like pre-LU-24 where you would get a quest to harvest uncommon herbs that only had a 1 in 20 chance of dropping from a fungus node. The only challenge is getting to the harvest table quickly. We have ways to do that as well. It may require some investment in better transportation, but there's that balance thing again.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hehe part of that is because they drastically lowered the amount of these you even needed. I think it should have been left at 100 as it was before, it's what? 15 of each now? That's a joke. And harvesting is like it is now so people don't have to spend 3 days harvesting to do 2 hours of tradeskilling.

[Ebjelen]

<P>That's right, 15 of each. Fifteen also happens to be the quantity we were required to return for harvesting quests. Remember that? Get the connection? Remember trying to find 15 field maple? And now ore nodes drop loams as well. Considering the perspective of the history of harvesting, my original premise is still justifiable. Havesting has gotten a lot easier. Much easier than finding pelts on the noobie island at release.</P> <P> </P>

[treasterbr]

<DIV>someone made a comment about it stopping people from macroing. this made me wonder cause something else that was said about selling crafted items to vendors. As a sage and the cost it takes for me to level and craft an app 4 and sell on my brooker on my server is not eve worth  it. it is better for me to spendteh day crafting app 4 spells then sell them to teh vendor and then repeat. they are not going to change the crafted items from being sold back to vendors to try and stop people from using macros are they for that will hurt those of us that are non raiders non large guilded players that play one day a week and I craft every other time I play so I can try and level and with now not being able to work on alternate ways to level like weaving or geocraft it is borng enough as is.</DIV>

[LanatirInno]

Timed writs sound terrible to me because even with a totally (over) maxxed out skill in smithing and the smithing hammer from the lattest adv pack i still get what i call 'strains of bad luck' where no matter what i do a certain amount of rounds of tradeskilling just go wrong, most of the time critical. I dont know if anyone else ever noticed it, but sometimes when you craft something and your direct action produces a failure you can make sure the next 3 to 5 ones are failures too. If THAT is combined with a timer i would smash my keyboard and send those devs prank phone calls for the next 25 years. Because NOTHING i can do can END those bad luck streaks, and believe me, i tried everything.

[Oakum]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ebjelen wrote:<BR> <P>That's right, 15 of each. Fifteen also happens to be the quantity we were required to return for harvesting quests. Remember that? Get the connection? Remember trying to find 15 field maple? And now ore nodes drop loams as well. Considering the perspective of the history of harvesting, my original premise is still justifiable. Havesting has gotten a lot easier. Much easier than finding pelts on the noobie island at release.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL, made me laugh thinking how much time I spent on the newbie Isle back in Dec 2004 because I was trying to max my harvesting lvl's before leaving the isle.

[Oakum]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> treasterbr wrote:<BR> <DIV>someone made a comment about it stopping people from macroing. this made me wonder cause something else that was said about selling crafted items to vendors. As a sage and the cost it takes for me to level and craft an app 4 and sell on my brooker on my server is not eve worth  it. it is better for me to spendteh day crafting app 4 spells then sell them to teh vendor and then repeat. they are not going to change the crafted items from being sold back to vendors to try and stop people from using macros are they for that will hurt those of us that are non raiders non large guilded players that play one day a week and I craft every other time I play so I can try and level and with now not being able to work on alternate ways to level like weaving or geocraft it is borng enough as is.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That isn't supposed to change. The thing is about people botting the combines and selling them to the vender is that they are only getting fuel cost back anyway. You cant bot for profit right now basically. Only to lvl. The purposes of the timers,according to Dymus, is to:</P> <P>1) Justify the rewards given since it will be possible to fail meaning they can give better rewards with less only adv/raidshould get anything decent  types complaining although I am sure their will be some.</P> <P>2) IMO also it is to reduce the ability of people to use bot programs to finish writs. Their are probably some that can but they will be a lot less common now and will have more wasted resource. For the harvesters that could be good though cause they will waste a lot of material that wil just be sold for fuel cost or put on the broker for rockbottom prices. <BR></P>

[Razorbak]

<P>Well, considering I can make an item of just about any tier in 60 seconds and the writs will probably be for 10 items, I would say that the crafting writ will probably have a 20 or 30 min timer on them.  That will help people with slow zone times or who have a bad streak of luck and have to remake several of the items.  I really don't see the timer for crafting writ to be an issue.  As for a harvesting writ, I am sure those will be much much longer.  And far more annoying when you get one for harvests from metal/rock.</P> <P>On the down side, the writs will probably cause the prices of roots and metals to go up even more since we may well have more people crafting to grind out TS wrtis as a break from doing adventure writs.</P>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">I just hope they scale the pay faction with speed of completion/quality. <span>:smileywink:</span> </font></font></font><div></div>

[DraecoPainbringer]

<blockquote><hr>Zabjade wrote:<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">I just hope they scale the pay faction with speed of completion/<b>quality</b>. <span>:smileywink:</span></font></font></font><div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#E2BD01">They have already said that the new crafting writs would require pristine.

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakum wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>The purposes of the timers,according to Dymus, is to:</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1) Justify the rewards given since it will be possible to fail meaning they can give better rewards with less only adv/raidshould get anything decent  types complaining although I am sure their will be some.</P> <P>2) IMO also it is to reduce the ability of people to use bot programs to finish writs. Their are probably some that can but they will be a lot less common now and will have more wasted resource. For the harvesters that could be good though cause they will waste a lot of material that wil just be sold for fuel cost or put on the broker for rockbottom prices. <BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I will never do a tradeskill writ, not even for testing.  Why?</P> <P>I can get *four* adventure writs at the same time, go out, kill the mobs, get coin and drops *while* Im doing them, get exp, harvest, work on or, complete another quest.  Guaranteed status when I finish.  No possibility of failing to complete them.</P> <P>What will I get with a tradeskill writ?  One writ, a timer, some exp, fuel cost, and a possibility of failing to complete the writ at the cost of my time and get back only fuel cost.</P> <P>No Sir, I will take the guaranteed payout.</P> <P>Sunrayn, 7 crafters from 35 to 65--Test<BR></P>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Sunrayn wrote:I will never do a tradeskill writ, not even for testing.  Why?I can get *four* adventure writs at the same time, go out, kill the mobs, get coin and drops *while* Im doing them, get exp, harvest, work on or, complete another quest.  Guaranteed status when I finish.  No possibility of failing to complete them.What will I get with a tradeskill writ?  One writ, a timer, some exp, fuel cost, and a possibility of failing to complete the writ at the cost of my time and get back only fuel cost.No Sir, I will take the guaranteed payout.<hr></blockquote>Except, how do you know what the reward is for finishing the tradeskill writs? I highly doubt they are just fuel cost, as that would seem stupid. There is going to obviously be some better reward than just fuel costs and status for completing the writs. I mean if its just fuel cost, that would seem pointless.

[Gargamel]

Well you know SoE....One of the original complains of the tradeskill writs were that the rewards were not so good.  Either coin or xp or status.So they wanted to add something to them to make them more 'challenging' so they could increase the rewards, which, back when I read about it, was the plan.<div></div>

[Saroc_Luclin]

They've been saying for awhile now that the old new system would have profit added back in. I would be REALLY surprised if there was no profit for these as well. I'm guessing the writs will probably have a 15 minute timer, though 20 minute might be a good guess too. It would be good if they can have a writ giver in each instance, who you can hail to start the timer, and have the timer stop when you complete the last item. That would let you get the writ, check your supplies and get fuels, and then start the timer. Or maybe it could start when you complete the first item.<div></div>

[Calthine]

Furthermore, they've said they've made it a timed quest so they can increase the rewards. 

[Rijacki]

<div><blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:<blockquote><hr>Sunrayn wrote:I will never do a tradeskill writ, not even for testing.  Why?I can get *four* adventure writs at the same time, go out, kill the mobs, get coin and drops *while* Im doing them, get exp, harvest, work on or, complete another quest.  Guaranteed status when I finish.  No possibility of failing to complete them.What will I get with a tradeskill writ?  One writ, a timer, some exp, fuel cost, and a possibility of failing to complete the writ at the cost of my time and get back only fuel cost.No Sir, I will take the guaranteed payout.<hr></blockquote>Except, how do you know what the reward is for finishing the tradeskill writs? I highly doubt they are just fuel cost, as that would seem stupid. There is going to obviously be some better reward than just fuel costs and status for completing the writs. I mean if its just fuel cost, that would seem pointless.<hr></blockquote>But if you failed to beat the timer, it would be for just the fuel costs and nothing more.But, unless there is more hard metal brought into the world somehow (i.e. decrease the rate of common loam, increase the rate or common hard metal), those who have every recipe requiring hard metal (i.e. carpenters) will be at a decided disadvantage, again, vs those who don't have any hard metal at all (sages, alchemists, provisioners, etc).If the timer starts the moment you get the quest -and- its random what product is desired (without any way to choose), it will be more difficult for those classes that have several different ingredient possiblities vs those that have been "streamlined" to only need a few different types (for example, alchemists now only have a handful of ingredients for -everything- while carpenters and others have more with provisioners now topping the list).It all depends on the timers and the way the quests are set up for choices.  Their rewards might make them "better" than the fast to do, sure-fire no-muss no-fuss adventure writs (T7 scaleborn sentries?).  It remains to be seen.As I said before, if the timer is too short, they will be frustrating and people will eschew them in favour of the sure-fire rewards of the adventure writs.  If the timer is too long, then they won't have any challenge.But... could -anything- ever match the 4 scaleborn sentries writs which can be done in about 15 mins -including- travel time?  Doubtful.  But those ones are really waaaay out of the ordinary.</div>

[Gorhauth]

<div><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<div>But... could -anything- ever match the 4 scaleborn sentries writs which can be done in about 15 mins -including- travel time?  Doubtful.  But those ones are really waaaay out of the ordinary.</div><hr></blockquote>They are so far out of the ordinary only Qeynosians got them, and for 4 whole levels.  Nothing should be compared to that amazing dickup of a set of writs.</div>

[Irjv]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<div>As I said before, if the timer is too short, they will be frustrating and people will eschew them in favour of the sure-fire rewards of the adventure writs.  If the timer is too long, then they won't have any challenge.But... could -anything- ever match the 4 scaleborn sentries writs which can be done in about 15 mins -including- travel time?  Doubtful.  But those ones are really waaaay out of the ordinary.</div><hr></blockquote>Hello.I currently have a level 63 summoner just to do those "scaleborn sentries" fighting writs.The battle itself is very short, about 5 minutes.But you have to ask for your City Writs at the Temple, at the Mage Tower, and so on, and then you have to go to Tenebrous via the Antonica Spire, and total with a +40% horse it take about 40-45 minutes to complete a full set.On the other way, I like really crafting, and I like also Crafting Writs... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Timed ones sounds a good idea, as this means challenge.But if the timer is too low, some people will prefer fighting writs, others will prefer flawless crafting bots.As for writs, simply add time used to harvest + time used to craft and compare SP with fighting writs SP (time used to battle). So SoE needs to balance City Writs as character classes are.As for bots, I once saw a friend of mine macro-crafting, with ANY buffs, durability or progression, he gets 100% pristine. So a short-timed writ will give him an unfair advantage as his bot is quicker than me to craft and never fails a reaction event (and doesn't search for a receipe during 2 full minutes due to fatigue).I fear timing is not the good way to stop those @#[! bots.If we want to stop them, bots are just programs, and they are relying on stable informations.For example, as harvesting bots seems to be relying on the node's name displayed, so why not removing the name ?This would harden player's harvest a bit, but harvesting bots will be useless as there is no image reconignition.I'm sure they are plenty of trick usable against bots, but this require some programming changes, sometimes minor, sometimes not.And I'm waiting for those new Tradeskill City Writs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Kizee]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sunrayn wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>I will never do a tradeskill writ, not even for testing.  Why?</P> <P>I can get *four* adventure writs at the same time, go out, kill the mobs, get coin and drops *while* Im doing them, get exp, harvest, work on or, complete another quest.  Guaranteed status when I finish.  No possibility of failing to complete them.</P> <P>What will I get with a tradeskill writ?  One writ, a timer, some exp, fuel cost, and a possibility of failing to complete the writ at the cost of my time and get back only fuel cost.</P> <P>No Sir, I will take the guaranteed payout.</P> <P>Sunrayn, 7 crafters from 35 to 65--Test<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I would agree with you if they left the subcombines in , random assign task and the cap so you can do only 1 ever 30 minutes.</P> <P>If they let you pick your task and don't have any cap then TS writs will be ALOT faster than the kill tasks. </P> <P>I personally can't wait because it takes my templar a good 40-50 minutes (not includeing travel time) just to finish 1 kill task. :smileysad:</P>

[Gorhauth]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Irjvik wrote:<div></div><div>Hello.I currently have a level 63 summoner just to do those "scaleborn sentries" fighting writs.The battle itself is very short, about 5 minutes.But you have to ask for your City Writs at the Temple, at the Mage Tower, and so on, and then you have to go to Tenebrous via the Antonica Spire, and total with a +40% horse it take about 40-45 minutes to complete a full set.</div><hr></blockquote>From QH, go to Eldar Grove, entrance near the bank.  Get the writ, head to NQ, get the healer writ first, then the fighter writ.  From there, run to the SQ zone, get the mage writ.  Zone out to Antonica.  Run to the tower, take it to Oracle Tower Station.  From that tower, take it to TS.  When the bird flies under the aqueduct, jump off it.  Call your horse, run to the spire.  That takes less than 10 mins, depending on how fast you zone and the time on the spire.  I could get two sets done before my CoQ was done from completing the first one (three in an hour).Compare that to the Freeport side... I don't think they have more than two of the same mob required for a writ.

[Lilj]

<P>At this point there is no coin gain in doing these writes and the timer is rather extreme. I get 8 minutes to do 12 combines.</P> <P> </P>

[Tuvoccat]

<P>Right now you loose money doing ts writs and if you fail you loose everything, raws, fuel, finished items. Zero, Ziltch, Nothing.</P> <P> </P>

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sunrayn wrote:<BR>I will never do a tradeskill writ, not even for testing.  Why?<BR>I can get *four* adventure writs at the same time, go out, kill the mobs, get coin and drops *while* Im doing them, get exp, harvest, work on or, complete another quest.  Guaranteed status when I finish.  No possibility of failing to complete them.What will I get with a tradeskill writ?  One writ, a timer, some exp, fuel cost, and a possibility of failing to complete the writ at the cost of my time and get back only fuel cost.<BR>No Sir, I will take the guaranteed payout.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Except, how do you know what the reward is for finishing the tradeskill writs? I <STRONG>highly doubt they are just fuel cost, as that would seem stupid. There is going to obviously be some better reward than just fuel costs and status for completing the writs. I mean if its just fuel cost, that would seem pointless.<BR></STRONG> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Setting very low expectations...or better yet, negative expectations...for what SOE will do, works for me.  They have never disappointed me.<BR>

[missionarymarr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sunrayn wrote:<BR>I will never do a tradeskill writ, not even for testing.  Why?<BR>I can get *four* adventure writs at the same time, go out, kill the mobs, get coin and drops *while* Im doing them, get exp, harvest, work on or, complete another quest.  Guaranteed status when I finish.  No possibility of failing to complete them.What will I get with a tradeskill writ?  One writ, a timer, some exp, fuel cost, and a possibility of failing to complete the writ at the cost of my time and get back only fuel cost.<BR>No Sir, I will take the guaranteed payout.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><BR>Except, how do you know what the reward is for finishing the tradeskill writs? I highly doubt they are just fuel cost, as that would seem stupid. There is going to obviously be some better reward than just fuel costs and status for completing the writs. I mean if its just fuel cost, that would seem pointless.</P> <P> </P> <P>Well guess what right now with the way they have released them they are pointless. some of the writs aren't even allowing you to recoup the fuel cost and if you fail then you are definately going to lose money on these writs. So far it looks to me like they have totally dropped the ball on this and really need to up the rewards a lot to make them useful otherwise this system will only be used by those totally gullible.<BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Dymus]

<DIV>In the interest of keeping feedback consolidated please post any bugs / information / feedback / etc. here:  </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=62325" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=62325</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll be watching that thread specifically, thanks.</DIV>

[HazlenutElf]

As long as the timer is reasonable, it sounds like a good idea to me.

[Bhagpuss]

<div><blockquote><hr>HazlenutElf wrote:<div></div>As long as the timer is reasonable, it sounds like a good idea to me.<hr></blockquote>I generally do not play any game that uses timers. In a game like EQ2, where timers are used sporadically, I prefer not to use the content which includes them.I don't actually care if the timer is 2, 3 or a hundred times longer than even the slowest person would need to complete the task - I do not log into EQ2 to be tested in this crass manner, and from a RP point of view I do not play characters who would accept such tests either.Timers are just a bad idea, period. </div>

[Priestbane]

Nope... they're more content. You do not have to use them, there's PLENTY else to do. =)

[Irjv]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Bhagpuss wrote:<div>I generally do not play any game that uses timers. In a game like EQ2, where timers are used sporadically, I prefer not to use the content which includes them.</div><hr></blockquote>Hello.On the play side, you're totally right, timers are stressing the player, and the word "stress" is not a good friend of  "enjoy playing the game".Some players will like stress, but when it's 3:00 AM, you're tired, you will have a great chance to fail just due to fatigue and timer.So once more hardcore players with plenty of time to play will be happier, as casual players usually are working during the day.And also when you need those 492.500 SP in order to buy a personal pristine craft machine and you currently have about 5.000 SP, you are eager to chain City Writs, so acting like it was a timer.</div>

[Oakum]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Irjvik wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bhagpuss wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>I generally do not play any game that uses timers. In a game like EQ2, where timers are used sporadically, I prefer not to use the content which includes them.<BR><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Hello.<BR><BR>On the play side, you're totally right, timers are stressing the player, and the word "stress" is not a good friend of  "enjoy playing the game".<BR>Some players will like stress, but when it's 3:00 AM, you're tired, you will have a great chance to fail just due to fatigue and timer.<BR>So once more hardcore players with plenty of time to play will be happier, as casual players usually are working during the day.<BR><BR>And also when you need those 492.500 SP in order to buy a personal pristine craft machine and you currently have about 5.000 SP, you are eager to chain City Writs, so acting like it was a timer.<BR><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The timers are to justify to all the non tradeskilling players and themselves the increased reward you can get from the writs, just like raids are used to justify high end fabled items. If there is a chance of failure then the reward can be greater. </P> <P>Its not about casual or hardcore at all. Its how the rewards vs risk will be percieved by the player base and the devs that decide what the rewards are from writs.  ]</P> <P>If I get that tired that I start messing up, then I go to bed or accept that I will mess up a combine occasionally if I cat nap in the middle of one. </P> <P>The timer, IMO, also is about making something challenging in tradeskilling besides the time it takes to grind to 70. Yes, there is a little stress but a little stress is good and keeps us on our toes and paying attention.</P> <P> Of course if I botted I would not want that challenge or stress since failures might increase without a lot of plat coming in when a bot program wasnt smart enough to make them quick enough. lol  Course I play for fun and some challenge.  Guess thats why I never was tempted to bot even with the assembly line crafting process.  <BR></P>