Fury: Ring of Fire change

[CB3]

<DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>First off let me start by saying I dont post much and yes this is my first post but I have been playing my fury in and out of raiding guilds since November 22nd 2004. I raid often and consider myself extremely knowledgable about my fury and pretty knowledgable about the other priests classes as well and I just wanted to give my point of view.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have seen the changes to irritating swarm and it really doesnt bother me either way. Its a very situational spell now and I very rarely use it so how they change it really doesnt make me worry much.  The change I am really concerned about is ring of fire.  This and our 4 nukes (not including call of storms as it stuns) has provided the fury class with a nice amount of damage for a healer.  With clerics able to boost their damage through their acheivements they have almost caught up if not equaled us druids.  Wardens are right on our heels and surpassing us in certain situations. Shaman i dont know much about but i have seen a few shaman parse over 300 and thats in my opinion respectable enough for a shaman that doesnt have str or int maxed and isnt really focused on damage.  Us druids can reach anywhere between 300 and 500 sustained damage per second depending on the mob but most of the parses I have looked at have been mostly in very long fights (ie easy raid mobs that dont require every healer in the raid to heal so we turn to damage as a secondary role to get to the harder fights faster).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a fury we still have 0 debuffs that remove anything more than defense of the mob we are fighting.  We also have no buffs that increase defense in any way of a tank or other group members.  We have the core healer group buffs (Mitigation with a small side effect, small hp buff with resists, and a group stat buff).  Aside from the basics what we provide to a group is basically more damage (int buffs for casters and str/agi with a chance to give haste and autoattack damage increase buffs for scouts and tanks).</DIV> <DIV>Clerics can debuff there spell type and melee damage for themselves if they choose to melee and any melee based group mates.  They have stoneskin (templar), large amounts of hp buffing, and the inquisitors can buff autoattack damage for meleers as well as a group proc for around 400 damage.</DIV> <DIV>Shaman have an amazing amount of debuffs mostly defense oriented but nonetheless very powerful. The shaman also have a large amount of hp buffing as well.  They can debuff noxious which is their main damage type.</DIV> <DIV>Wardens have the same core buffs for the most part however they have a few defense oriented buffs.  They have the defense/stun proc buff.  They also have a large boost to their own mitigation and focus skill through their animal form (the fury equivalent is sta and agi and sta gives 2 hp per point for druids) and it helps their survivability alot.  They can also debuff elemental which is their main damage type.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My biggest problem is with all these classes becoming closer and closer to the furies damage output and having all these other buffs and debuffs that help a group much more than a fury we are getting one of our damage spell nerfed to 50% of its original power.  I don't see why it was needed in the first place.  It was working fine as it was.  Us furies have 0 control spells as it is so I didnt expect a nerf to our damage output from a control spell revamp.  I would just like to hear the reasoning behind WHY it was lowered in effectiveness from a developer.  We have very little to help a group other than more damage and there have been times where I have barely been able to keep a tank alive where a cleric shaman or warden of equal gear and skill would not have had a much of a problem because of the amount of debuffs or simply raw hp they could have added to the tank to offset the large spikes of damage incoming or even a boost to the tanks raw avoidance in some way (halls of fate for example).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We used to be unique in our damage output and that was fine.  We have been sitting fine for a while now with very little change to the fury class and we were very happy with what we had.  There is no reason in my opinion to change this spell.  We have dealt with its low hp and adapted our use of it to accomodate mobs aoes as have the wardens with their healing tree.  The wardens can palce there tree far enough away from mobs to avoid the aoes outright.  However the ring of fire must be near every mob we wish it to hit and for that reason it will sometimes get eaten. We have accepted this fact but why must we see one of our favorite spells being lowered in effectiveness?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again I would just like to hear from a developer as to why ring of fire has been lowered in effectiveness or whether it is being set back to the original recast.</DIV> <DIV>thanks in advance to any developer willing to respond to this</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by CB3 on <span class=date_text>05-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:18 AM</span>

[frisco4]

because furies are unbalanced at the moment, quit livin in a dream world.<div></div>

[foulpla]

The same thing happened to Forge of Ro for wizards....same spell different name.<div></div>

[RanmaBoyType]

<DIV>So...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  From this post what i gather is the fact that currently you can keep ring of fire on permantly, since it's duration is 30 seconds, and its recats is 30 seconds, starting from when you cast it, aka as soon as it drops you can cast it again.  As far as i know, no other class in the game has an AoE that they can keep up perma...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  Second i am really missing how you say you have no debuffs.. considering a wis/agi debuff, which lowers mobs resists to all magic, as well as physical avoidance, but hey, i'm not a fury, you are right.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  Third i am really missing how you say you offer no real buffs to a group, when on our raids a fury is a druid of choice strictly for the ability to cast urchin on the MT during tough epic fights, but hey you were a fury, you should know that right?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  But hey, it is ok to give healers t2 dps then right? might as well give warlocks and wizards group heals too, that was balance is saved.</DIV>

[Surething]

<P>Well this is a nerf that is uncalled for.  Furies are not unbalanced (it is just popular to say they are).  I have not seen any class in this game I consider overpowered.</P> <P>Comparing what one class has to another class is conterproductive.  Each class is supposed to be different; each class has something that no other class has.  So, each time I see someone say "no other class can do this" I wonder if they get the idea.  Each class needs to be able to have unique powers or there is no reason to have classes.</P> <P>Have other classes had uncalled for nerfs? Sure. It happens, and it is not right.</P> <P>To say something like the following:<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> frisco444 wrote:<BR>because furies are unbalanced at the moment, quit livin in a dream world.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Is plain wrong.  You have no idea what you are talking about, you did not even bother to give examples.  There are too many people in posts like this that jump on the "nerf the class de jour" bandwagon and give examples of how a class they have never played is over powered. </P> <P>There are too many "urban myths" about how unbalanced/overpowered some classes are.  </P> <P>If you have a problem with your own class bring it up with the developers.  Stop whinning about how much better some other class has it; your opinion stinks as much as that other thing everyone else has one of.</P><p>Message Edited by Surething on <span class=date_text>05-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:00 AM</span>

[foulpla]

Just ignore they did the exact same thing to Forge of RO, which is identical to Ring of fire in practically every way, they obviously felt it was over powered for both of us.<div></div>

[Goozman]

<P>Agree with the OP. Furies are so ridiculously far from overpowered that it's just... well... ridiculous. I feel for forge of ro, I really do as I also enjoy playing an upper 50's Wizard... but Furies only have 5 damage spells, not ~16. Now that other Priests can equal Furies in damage output (don't argue this, I know it to be true) and maintain their superiority in other fields of priesthood, Furies offer nothing. </P> <P>Urchin is not a useless spell, but it is a worthless spell. Most guilds don't use it anymore. I haven't used the porcupine line since we did the god king several months ago... and the time we finally beat the mob in question was when I didn't use it! (not that it was the reason we were losing... just showing how it is unnecessary). Furies offer nothing over heat/cold resist and urchin to an MT group, so they are sacrificing the amazingly superior buffs another class could offer the MT by having a Fury in it... not worth it at all.</P> <P>Furies need more damage, not less, to keep their flavor. Either an increase to their damage spells, a new damage spell, or a complete aa revamp because they all are god-awful. Either that, or Furies need a defensive overhaul so they can reach clerics and shamans. Agi/wis debuff? Absolutely worthless, and yes, Defilers have one too... it is worthless for them as well. Irritating Swarm? Doubly worthless... just copy and paste the Warden's root and be done with it. Make our debuffs actually help or turn them into damage spells. Now that even common gear has 20+ int on it, make our INT buff something more in line with what it is intended to do... add a % to base spell damage or add a % to crit a damage spell.</P> <P>If I lived in a bubble, like many Furies do, and closed myself off to the outside world, maybe I'd still be all happy about being a Fury. But I don't, and I'm not.</P> <P>edit: I just want to add that I personally do not want to match Clerics or Shamans in defensive buffing, healing, or debuffing. I want to be the damage king of the Priests. I chose to sacrifice all that stuff so that I could excel in damage. But right now, it's not the case. I'd like it to be the case again.</P> <P>Thank u /flame on</P><p>Message Edited by Goozman on <span class=date_text>05-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:43 PM</span>

[JadaeOw]

lol @ thinking Barbarous Intimidation makes more than .5% of a difference in anything. lol@ thinking Fury DPS is even efficient, let alone high enough, to compete with a mages DPS. eh oh el <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Never forget that efficiency and strength are two different things. Ring of Fire is the only DPS Furies have that is efficient. Thunderbolt isnt too bad for a priest but ROF is the only thing close to mage efficiency. So if that is the chosen route, then Furies (Druids in general) need to be given an edge to compete with the other priests. Like, oh I dont know... a debuff that is actually useful cause -80wis/agi is laughable. -20something defense is okay from the.... few second dot <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but the mana efficiency versus usage is not valuable at all.

[Sunlei]

<P> This spell was already nurfed.</P> <P> 1) It is a *dot* that if not outright resisted does about 250 damage. Damage and resists were lowered (nurfed) couple months ago.</P> <P> </P> <P> 2) this spell even though it is a dot (damage over time) has about 200 hit points. You know what a 200 hit point pet means? means any add kills it in ONE hit. Any mob Combat art kills it with one CA.</P> <P> </P> <P> Frequenty one casts this spell and it's gone in one second, dead-200 HP pet, no dot, no damage.</P> <P>Now this developer thinks this is some kind of 'control spell'..and is going to double the recast and cut the damage down another 20%.  </P> <P>This developer is just making the game more tedious...this spell was already SEVERLY nurfed a few months ago. It has 200 hit points from your last nurf!! </P> <P> </P>

[foulpla]

Play a raiding wizard (70) then come talk to me.<div></div>

[RanmaBoyType]

<DIV>Hrm..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  Having played with a fury from level 1-70, and still do currently in a raiding alliance, i am just not understanding the complaint..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] do you want furies, do you want to be healers or do you want to be wizards, cause from the way i see it, you are [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good healers, and your damage is nothing to laugh at.  No not on par with wizards, but your AoE's and single target damage nukes are higher than any other priests, yet you still [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not understanding why any raiding fury states urchin line is useless.. must not be a very good guild cause +2500 some mit is nothing to laugh at, even though your stunned.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And please continue to complain about the fact that your ring of fire only has 200 hp and any aoe kills it.  welcome to the world of swarm pets and dumfire pets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everyone is happy till the nerfs point at them, then they are all wrong.  Hrm interesting..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>god.. furies..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[tralalak44]

<P>the big diff is that swarm pets can be used EVERYTIME !!! RoF absolutely not coz of adds. 1 min recast and 200hp = crapy spell.</P> <P>summary<BR>buffs = clerics, shamans ownz furys<BR>debuffs = clerics, shamans ownz furys<BR>healing = clerics, shamans ownz furys<BR>dps = furys sligtly outbeats clerics, shamans (when we maxed INT AA line)<BR><BR>i can live with that but why devs nerf yet RoF and IS/MS ??? WHY ???</P><p>Message Edited by tralalak44 on <span class=date_text>05-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:52 PM</span>

[Goozman]

<P>This isn't a Wizard whine thread, it's a Fury whine thread; and I have no interest in talking to you, so I won't be "playing a raiding wizard".</P> <P>And as for the following message.<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RanmaBoyType wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hrm..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  Having played with a fury from level 1-70, and still do currently in a raiding alliance, i am just not understanding the complaint..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] do you want furies, do you want to be healers or do you want to be wizards, cause from the way i see it, you are [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good healers, and your damage is nothing to laugh at.  No not on par with wizards, but your AoE's and single target damage nukes are higher than any other priests, yet you still [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not understanding why any raiding fury states urchin line is useless.. must not be a very good guild cause +2500 some mit is nothing to laugh at, even though your stunned.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And please continue to complain about the fact that your ring of fire only has 200 hp and any aoe kills it.  welcome to the world of swarm pets and dumfire pets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everyone is happy till the nerfs point at them, then they are all wrong.  Hrm interesting..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>god.. furies..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>First, I am/was in Drow on Unrest, which most(not all) will agree is the #2 guild on Unrest; so don't start running your mouth about you thinking you are more knowledgable about raiding than me. And I can laugh at the 2500 mitigation because it isn't worth having a Fury in the MT group anymore. Porcupine was cool in the early DoF days, it's just not worth its detriments anymore; if it was made castable on raid or group friend, it would be cool.</P> <P>Second, if you live in a bubble, as I said before, and you don't compare yourself to other classes.... then yes, Fury is a "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good healer" with damage you "can't laugh at". I, and other intelligent people, choose not to blind ourselves to other classes though. All healers are "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good healers", with Fury being the weakest of all of them... Damage, which is supposed to be the Druids' flavor is no longer better than other Priests (once aa's are achieved). </P> <P>Druids sacrifice preventative heals, stronger armor, defensive buffs, debuffs, and croud control capabilities (Fury only) for superior damage. However, since the non-druid dps buff, Druids are no longer superior. A Druid with >50 aa's all focused toward damage, maxed INT, all m1 and m2 damage spells< can be matched and exceeded, on occasion, by a Templar with >50 aa's all focused toward damage, half the INT, all ad3 and m1 damage spells< While the other priests have sacrificed nothing for this bonus damage (with the exception of other aa choices, which is also sacrificed by the druid, so it doesn't matter).</P> <P>I was for the priest dps bonus (even tho it was implemented before the effect of aa's was even weighed)... until Druids were taken out. Druids both deserved the dps increase along with shamans and clerics.</P> <P>So, in conclusion, regarding your last statement... I was unhappy long before this little nerf; and druids weren't even nerfed; you can even search my posts where I was talking about all of this long ago.</P><p>Message Edited by Goozman on <span class=date_text>05-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:06 PM</span>

[enrique_to]

<div></div>Furys versus all other priest real problem is:We wear the worst armor. (Like Wardens)We have the worst of the "special heals" (Like Wardens)We are Ofensive healers (And most RAIDERs look for Defensive healers) We are Just a damage dealer class. We can be a back-up DPS if we are sec Healer. We lack of defensive buff and defensive debuff. We are far from any other class about debuff and buff. And for Raiders we have little to do versus any other healer classes. We have Porcupine / Urchid. Right.  But try to remember It make you be Stuned. A HEALER CAN'T BE STUNED!!! As Druids, our bigger aportation to a RAID are our fast heals. We have shorter cast time heals that any other healer so if tanks live go red we can react sooner that any other healer. But if we are stunned we can't do nothing!!!I'm just trying to say you we are just a damage offensive healer class. Too few attractive in RAIDs but a really good class as a backup healer in group situations. Cause if no heals are needed we can nuke and if tanks life go red we can turn it to green faster that any other non druid healer can. He do not have such as good heals as are Wards or reactive heals. So please do not ask us to nerf cause WE ARE NOT OVERPOWERED. We are just ofensive healers and we have a lot of lacks. Cause we can do some damage (Yes we have 2 hi damage spells) we have a big problem with our hi damage spells retimers.

[JadaeOw]

The Wizards in this discussion seriously need to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] lol. The Druid and Sorcerer classes ARE NOT COMPARABLE <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Druids dont even come close in DPS. I think I played DPS as a sole role once ever. Oh boy <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Go me and my mighty DPS. Go whine to someone that cares. This discussion is about ROF, nerfage and Druid (mainly Fury) usefulness during the 55-70 levels and raiding times when the rules of the game have severely changed.

[Surething]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RanmaBoyType wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hrm..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  Having played with a fury from level 1-70, and still do currently in a raiding alliance, i am just not understanding the complaint..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV>You just stated the obvious...  Playing with a fury (or any other class) is far different from actually playing that class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is why you do not understand the complaint.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People that think the nerf is just fine (do not understand the problem) keep citing specific areras of play.  The problem is not with a specific area but about the overall playability in ALL situations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This nerf will take some joy out of Furyville (not a good thing to do in a game).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>            and for the record, I think the corresponding nerf of Wizards is bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>

[FreaklyCreak]

<DIV>invalid HTML, fix it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- All DIFFRENT CLASSES HAVE DIFFRENT ABILITIES.</DIV> <DIV>- DIFFRENT classes heal for diffrent amounts, over time, diffrent costs and in diffrent situations.</DIV> <DIV>- DIFFRENT classes do damge for diffrent amounts, over time, diffrent costs and in diffrent situations.</DIV> <DIV>- DIFFRENT classes debuff for diffrent amounts, over time, diffrent costs and in diffrent situations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't feed me anymore crap. If you want DPS be a mage, if you want to debuff be a bard/shaman/chanter, and if you want to heal for the largest amounts then be a cleric. You can't be everything in a game, classes NEED to be diffrent. If you all keep complaning the game will be like this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/start joke</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><Defiler> Wards for 15 points.</DIV> <DIV><Guardian> Is hit for 16 points. Does 6 points slashing damage.</DIV> <DIV><warden> Heals for .25 points and .10 every 2 seconds.</DIV> <DIV><templar> Heals for 1.75 points.</DIV> <DIV><Wizard> Does 500 damge. Takes aggro.</DIV> <DIV><wizard> Dies.</DIV> <DIV><Conj> Laughs because his damage was nerfed 500 times to be 1.5 every 45 secs.</DIV> <DIV><conj pet> Dies for no apparent reason.</DIV> <DIV><fury> Complains.</DIV> <DIV><all other classes> Hey look they all need to be nerfed!</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>******SYSTEM MESSAGE*******: All zones are going down for 15 mins because we did not recieve our daily cheese and crackers. No we won't be nice and give you back your place in such and such raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><all in raid> SoE sucks!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV>LU # 738 patch notes</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Fury, Guardian, Templar, and Wizzard were all nerfed. That is all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/end joke</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Goozman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FreaklyCreak wrote:<BR> <DIV>invalid HTML, fix it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- All DIFFRENT CLASSES HAVE DIFFRENT ABILITIES.</DIV> <DIV>- DIFFRENT classes heal for diffrent amounts, over time, diffrent costs and in diffrent situations.</DIV> <DIV>- DIFFRENT classes do damge for diffrent amounts, over time, diffrent costs and in diffrent situations.</DIV> <DIV>- DIFFRENT classes debuff for diffrent amounts, over time, diffrent costs and in diffrent situations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't feed me anymore crap. If you want DPS be a mage, if you want to debuff be a bard/shaman/chanter, and if you want to heal for the largest amounts then be a cleric. You can't be everything in a game, classes NEED to be diffrent. If you all keep complaning the game will be like this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/start joke</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><Defiler> Wards for 15 points.</DIV> <DIV><Guardian> Is hit for 16 points. Does 6 points slashing damage.</DIV> <DIV><warden> Heals for .25 points and .10 every 2 seconds.</DIV> <DIV><templar> Heals for 1.75 points.</DIV> <DIV><Wizard> Does 500 damge. Takes aggro.</DIV> <DIV><wizard> Dies.</DIV> <DIV><Conj> Laughs because his damage was nerfed 500 times to be 1.5 every 45 secs.</DIV> <DIV><conj pet> Dies for no apparent reason.</DIV> <DIV><fury> Complains.</DIV> <DIV><all other classes> Hey look they all need to be nerfed!</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>******SYSTEM MESSAGE*******: All zones are going down for 15 mins because we did not recieve our daily cheese and crackers. No we won't be nice and give you back your place in such and such raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><all in raid> SoE sucks!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV>LU # 738 patch notes</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Fury, Guardian, Templar, and Wizzard were all nerfed. That is all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/end joke</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>read the freaking posts before replying ffs

[Demoniac]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> tralalak44 wrote:<BR> <P>the big diff is that swarm pets can be used EVERYTIME !!! RoF absolutely not coz of adds. 1 min recast and 200hp = crapy spell.</P> <P>summary<BR>buffs = clerics, shamans ownz furys<BR>debuffs = clerics, shamans ownz furys<BR>healing = clerics, shamans ownz furys<BR>dps = furys sligtly outbeats clerics, shamans (when we maxed INT AA line)<BR><BR>i can live with that but why devs nerf yet RoF and IS/MS ??? WHY ???</P> <P>Message Edited by tralalak44 on <SPAN class=date_text>05-28-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:52 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>you play mars vision everquest II? this is the most bs I've ever heard not even freaking funny.

[Rene]

<P>It always surprises me when classes of a different archtype come in and bash people, or opinions about a class they have never played.  I have "played with" does not make played.  I realize that you can formulate opinions about something without experiencing yourself.. but although all are entitled to them.. all opinions are not equal.  I do not get the class envy.. etc garbage that comes out on these forums.   I thought the first post was very well stated.. and well thought out.  The Rationalle of lowest Healing highest and Damage of the Priests, I thought was well thought out.   A situational spell, that is great damage for our archtype, but also limited in its use, is now being pushed to being a spell on the third tier of the hot bar.  I know all classes have them.. but it is a shame to take a favorite.. and chop it in half.  Wizards were mentioned.. and I admit almost total ignorance on their full spell lineup.. but if they had an identical spell.. and it is being nerfed as well.. That is a tragedy.. that a premier spell casting class.. should share a spell with the premier <U>Priest</U>  damage class.... Then I weep for Wizards..</P> <P>I digress....   I guess.. I just did not see the need for this.  At no time grouping, or soloing or Duoing with my 60 Guardian Sidekick, did I ever feel this spell was overpowered..  I just dont get it.  </P><p>Message Edited by Rene on <span class=date_text>05-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:20 PM</span>

[FreaklyCreak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Goozman wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FreaklyCreak wrote:<BR> <DIV>invalid HTML, fix it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- All DIFFRENT CLASSES HAVE DIFFRENT ABILITIES.</DIV> <DIV>- DIFFRENT classes heal for diffrent amounts, over time, diffrent costs and in diffrent situations.</DIV> <DIV>- DIFFRENT classes do damge for diffrent amounts, over time, diffrent costs and in diffrent situations.</DIV> <DIV>- DIFFRENT classes debuff for diffrent amounts, over time, diffrent costs and in diffrent situations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't feed me anymore crap. If you want DPS be a mage, if you want to debuff be a bard/shaman/chanter, and if you want to heal for the largest amounts then be a cleric. You can't be everything in a game, classes NEED to be diffrent. If you all keep complaning the game will be like this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/start joke</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><Defiler> Wards for 15 points.</DIV> <DIV><Guardian> Is hit for 16 points. Does 6 points slashing damage.</DIV> <DIV><warden> Heals for .25 points and .10 every 2 seconds.</DIV> <DIV><templar> Heals for 1.75 points.</DIV> <DIV><Wizard> Does 500 damge. Takes aggro.</DIV> <DIV><wizard> Dies.</DIV> <DIV><Conj> Laughs because his damage was nerfed 500 times to be 1.5 every 45 secs.</DIV> <DIV><conj pet> Dies for no apparent reason.</DIV> <DIV><fury> Complains.</DIV> <DIV><all other classes> Hey look they all need to be nerfed!</DIV> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>******SYSTEM MESSAGE*******: All zones are going down for 15 mins because we did not recieve our daily cheese and crackers. No we won't be nice and give you back your place in such and such raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><all in raid> SoE sucks!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV>LU # 738 patch notes</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Fury, Guardian, Templar, and Wizzard were all nerfed. That is all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/end joke</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>read the freaking posts before replying ffs<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>im not firmiliar with the "FFS" term...</P> <P>I did read the post. I think the posters and OP are comparing themselves to much to diffrent classes. If you compare you just going to put yourself in a mentality such as thinking that everyone needs to be equal. Everyone has diffrent abilities and as such shouldnt be able to do something exactly the same as someone else. If they are changing RoF then it was deemed that it was doing to much damage.</P> <P>I'm just hoping that they reach a point in time that they don't need to balance classes anymore because they actually went through and charted everything. CC, Buffing/Buff Stacking, Healing(as well as warding), damage, utilities, crafting(in ALL respects) and all other things. These things should have been fixed with LU13 as stated it was supposed to balance the game. Given new rules that they are putting into motion and changes. I am hoping very much that they can plan all epic mobs, named, instanced zone, reg heroics, and solos to all be in balance with the game dynamics that they finally all agree on. Without having to change things each time there is a new adventure pack, expansion pack or other added to the game. If you notice that is the trend, they change things soon after or on the days of release. Currently IMO their track record isn't good, they keep trying to make everyone happy in order to keep everyone playing. This isn't good for a live game, as people like stability and don't like major core changes to the game.</P> <P>I would not mind small tiny fixes to spells that had things wrong with them. Yet asking them to change things repeatedly is just to get the game changed repeatedly. If you stop complaining and deal with what you have and learn to make the best of the class you pick then maybe changes will stop, but because this game as active forums and tons of customer service i doubt people will ever stop complaining. I do it to, but nothing like what I see. I understand if you spells dont work or say one thing but do something else, those things need fixing. But don't complain or fix what isnt broke, as my pappy always says.</P>

[Damaan]

<P>I doubt they will change this since they have stated swarm pets and dumbfire pets were meant to be temp pets and not available all the time.  I think we would be better off asking for it to have a few more HP, more damage, or something else.  Possibly maybe 45 sec recast instead of 60 secs since then it would still be down for 15 seconds minimum.  One thing I personally would like would be to have the recast timer reduced but not start until the effect goes away.  For example if it dies in 5 seconds then 30 seconds later let it be cast and not wait 55 secs.  Then they could use this same mechanic for other classes that had thier temp pets affected.  </P> <P> </P> <P>70 Fury/70 Tailor Permafrost</P><p>Message Edited by Damaan on <span class=date_text>05-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:41 AM</span>

[tralalak44]

<DIV>Demoniac wrote:</DIV> <DIV>you play mars vision everquest II? this is the most bs I've ever heard not even freaking funny. </DIV> <DIV>-------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>better point on specific bs in my post and dont spam board.<BR>but if u think that furys are better healer/buffers/debuffers then cleric and shamans then dont post anything else coz u can make self as fool.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Goozman]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> tralalak44 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Demoniac wrote:</DIV> <DIV>you play mars vision everquest II? this is the most bs I've ever heard not even freaking funny. </DIV> <DIV>-------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>better point on specific bs in my post and dont spam board.<BR>but if u think that furys are better healer/buffers/debuffers then cleric and shamans then dont post anything else coz u can make self as fool.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>He must have meant your last part, where you said Furies are better dps. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[SpritRaja]

They did fix the problem of it gaining aggro. Ring of Fire no longer has seperate aggro all of its agro from damage is transferred to the Fury. So any adds now go straight to the fury. It will still die in AoE though.

[Rutabegah]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SpritRaja wrote:<BR> They did fix the problem of it gaining aggro. Ring of Fire no longer has seperate aggro all of its agro from damage is transferred to the Fury. So any adds now go straight to the fury. It will still die in AoE though.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I don't think so.  I use it a lot and can tell you with certaintly that :<BR><BR>- If you nuke only one mob in an encounter and then cast ring of fire.. all other mobs will pretty much instantly target and kill the ring.<BR>- If an add walks up while ring of fire is going.. it will instantly aggro and kill the ring.<BR>- Your damage shield seems to generate enough aggro if you wait about 10 seconds before casting the ring.<BR>- You will get the "target not grouped" message a lot when trying to switch to a target that has your ring targetted.</P>

[Budgiette]

<div></div>Tested ring of fire today...and it died after one hit on mobs - every time.  Its now like a little mini nuke on a mob.  Sad to see it made as useless as it is!  Hoping its just bugged/broken and it isnt how the spell will end up, otherwise the expansion will have broken one spell to fix another (call of storms). <div></div><p>Message Edited by Budgiette on <span class=date_text>05-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:29 AM</span>

[morderir]

<DIV>cos fixed .. hummm i thing its a little too much</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the stun component  still make  him too broke to use in lot of situation .  basically , anytime you are the healer of your group and the situation  is a little hot.</DIV> <DIV>.same could be said of the porcupine  line by the way.  if at least  if were raid  usable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so currently  one nerf , one broke, and maddening swarm still in limbo</DIV>

[onimarox]

<P>As far as the people saying we cant dish out DPS we can. on many occasions i have out DPSed my raid by significant numbers. I am a raiding Fury, i am usually in the MT group and i make use of all my spells in any situation. with that being said The ring of fire was never ment to "tank" encounters adding a 1 min timer on it wont make it any less useful. yall will just have to learn to adapt in the way you use it if you cast it to early then u need to deal with it. its a supplement spell along with other spells that we carry to take down mobs. </P> <P>Do i liek the changes that are comming to fury's? No.</P> <P>Will i deal with them and learn to adapt? Yes. </P> <P>Each class is getting changed in some way and this is just another way we have to learn to adapt to our game.</P>

[Bi]

<div></div>As a raiding fury, I can honestly say the only time I have ever outDPSed any dps class is in PPR casting starburst followed by ROF, or vice-versa. (for those who have never been there - 30 odd arrow down /even mobs coming at once - bring a couple of AE classes and even with assassinate an assassin wont be in top 5 dps in a 5s fight.As someone familiar with clerics and shamans, as well as discussions about whether a warden or a fury is better in a mt group it seems clear:wardens>furies for healing power, yet with their swarm pets and comparable int do similar damage - wardens also debuff their own damage typesclerics have had their dps boosted to be comparable with druids >50AAs and I dont know many furies that go for max int line..shamans have always had awesome debuffs- I can't comment on their DPS particularly, just their buffs.Its sad looking at the thousand odd HP that druids are out-buffed by shamans and clerics.buffs arent equal- that's why druids are only in the mt group for healing power, not buffing power.Shaman debuffs own, clerics are pretty great too (not quite 33% of all stats - but hey  1+k of physical mitigation is good) compared to 80 wis/agi.. ([expletive haxx0red by Raijinn])To recap:DPS isnt comparable on LIVE at the moment, let alone test. I rolled a fury for DPS, and still rememeber my first thunderbolt skill being ad3d and everyone said 'WOAH' when it went off. No longer. I do pretty average DPS, and long cast times often mean that I can choose to DPS or Heal, rarely both.BUFFS are sorely lacking - bordering on ridiculous. Druids bring faster healing to the group, but also heal the 'last' of all the healers (only after a hit goes through reactives and wards do regens take effect)DEBUFFS 80 Wis/Agi and a 10s dot/debuff for 25 defense... lol? have a look at the other debuffs from other classes, we can't even debuff our own damage type.UTILITY: erm: a small power drain? compared to mez, immunity to stun,stifle roots- being able to stun/stifle/root/imprison.. As a damage dealing healer surely I would have an easier time killing hard mobs? nope. other healers can solo carnovigian, we couldnt look at a white ^^^ARMOUR: yep, we lose out again - lowest mitigation, coupled with lowest HP. double whammy!! I was first down when we were raiding vyemm, and many other mobs as I had the lowest HP and lowest mit. sure if I live I was ok, but I can remember being 1shotted by vyemm at 68..I'd love to say I loved playing my fury, but that hasnt been the case for the latter half of t7. T6 was fury hey-day, we didnt have awesome DPS, but could actually heal (BITF went a long way, and went further then when tank hps were lower) now with AA lines everyone does t3+dps that wants to, and furies going for 'damage' skill paths arent really getting much bang for their buck, compared to other priests who really are having a fair bit of boost.I rolled a fury to do good damage and heal a group. Sure it would be harder than other priests, but I could nevertheless heal well, and keep a group up. I'm getting tired of being relegated to 'average' priest dps; that's not what I sacrificed all those other things for. As for call of stuns.. what a fraekin joke.<div></div><p>Message Edited by bieb on <span class=date_text>05-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:38 AM</span>