Tradeskill Revamp for Crafters

[Runewind]

Okay so the test update notes said that outfitters and scholars get the no subcombine revamp in this test update and that woodworkers and carpenters will get it next test update...does this mean that in LU24 only scholars and outfitters will get it and crafters have to wait until LU25? or does it mean that before LU24 they will release another addition to TU24 that will include crafters so that they get it when LU24 hits too? <div></div>

[Cuz]

<P>Option 2.</P> <P>They are putting them on test by increments and should all be released on live at the same time.</P>

[deathtoyou5]

<DIV>there will be alot more crafters that drive the price down.. but i dont care! im going to now make every crafting toon in the game so i never have to buy any of my gear again!im glad they did it makes crafting easier and faster.</DIV>

[Lydiae]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> deathtoyou5 wrote:<BR> <DIV>there will be alot more crafters that drive the price down.. but i dont care! im going to now make every crafting toon in the game so i never have to buy any of my gear again!im glad they did it makes crafting easier and faster.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I don't want to rain on your parade, but you seem to be anticipating a much bigger change to crafting than we're getting.</P> <P>It's not supposed to faster to level a crafter.  </P> <P>I definitely don't see how it's going to be easier <EM>at all</EM>.  The crafting process is the same, only you're making final items only instead of subs and finals.  Finals are harder to make because they degrade in quality from pristine to regular upon losing a smaller percentage of their durability than subs.</P> <P>Up to you whether or not it's worth weeks of your play time to level all the tradeskill professions just to make your own stuff.  You could farm a whole lot of money in that time.</P>

[Runewind]

<div></div>Good okay. I'm glad. Also I agree. I know it will be harder to level but really it could be good for the economy. If this stuff gets cheaper maybe everything will get cheaper. Also I'm glad mostly because I enjoy crafting items. But I don't enjoy grinding levels. I like getting final products. and I feel like this way I can get a lot of final products and get experience incidently instead of feeling like I'm just making items to get experience and maybe I'll get 1 or 2 final products out of it. The thing I am probably most excited about though is not having to use any crafting skill other than my own to make things. I'm so sick of having to go and use the forge for part or the loom for part. I took my fletching racial trait recently just because I knew soon it would be the only crafting skill I would need. <div></div><p>Message Edited by TwistedRiddles on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:11 AM</span>

[Cuz]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lydiaele wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> deathtoyou5 wrote:<BR> <DIV>there will be alot more crafters that drive the price down.. but i dont care! im going to now make every crafting toon in the game so i never have to buy any of my gear again!im glad they did it makes crafting easier and faster.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I don't want to rain on your parade, but you seem to be anticipating a much bigger change to crafting than we're getting.</P> <P>It's not supposed to faster to level a crafter. </P> <P>I definitely don't see how it's going to be easier <EM>at all</EM>.  The crafting process is the same, only you're making final items only instead of subs and finals.  Finals are harder to make because they degrade in quality from pristine to regular upon losing a smaller percentage of their durability than subs.</P> <P>Up to you whether or not it's worth weeks of your play time to level all the tradeskill professions just to make your own stuff.  You could farm a whole lot of money in that time.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Also make sure to check what you're gonna be making for yourself. What used to be good might not be any more.</DIV>

[Galeden]

<DIV>Ignore my post sorry</DIV><p>Message Edited by Galeden on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:52 PM</span>

[Maroger]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lydiaele wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> deathtoyou5 wrote:<BR> <DIV>there will be alot more crafters that drive the price down.. but i dont care! im going to now make every crafting toon in the game so i never have to buy any of my gear again!im glad they did it makes crafting easier and faster.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I don't want to rain on your parade, but you seem to be anticipating a much bigger change to crafting than we're getting.</P> <P>It's not supposed to faster to level a crafter.  </P> <P>I definitely don't see how it's going to be easier <EM>at all</EM>.  The crafting process is the same, only you're making final items only instead of subs and finals.  Finals are harder to make because they degrade in quality from pristine to regular upon losing a smaller percentage of their durability than subs.</P> <P>Up to you whether or not it's worth weeks of your play time to level all the tradeskill professions just to make your own stuff.  You could farm a whole lot of money in that time.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You will definitely level faster with NO SUBCOMBINES. When they put the changes in for Tier 1 and 2 -- I levele and alchemist to the next tier in a few hours. Without subcombines you can concentrate on only making the highest level stuff thus faster XP thus faster levelling.<BR>

[Laiina]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TwistedRiddles wrote:<BR> Good okay. I'm glad. Also I agree. I know it will be harder to level but really it could be good for the economy. If this stuff gets cheaper maybe everything will get cheaper. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Don't count on things getting cheaper. Because the new recipes will use a LOT more of the basic components, such as root, minerals, etc - you can expect to see some high demand, and thus higher prices for much of that.</P> <P>And I think that the "rush to crafting" will be short lived. You will end up with a lot of people that burn out around T3. The competition for raw materials will be higher also so harvesting in some zones will be a lot slower for a while.</P> <P>And then eventually, after a month or two, it will settle back to pretty much the same group of us that are crafting fanatics and life will go on as usual.</P>

[-Karofin-]

<DIV>As an experienced crafter I feel that I should point out that the opposite is likely to happen - Prices will increase and not fall.  Still after months since T7 released I find the price of raws massively more expensive than the other tiers, and specifically T6 when it released.   Personally I buy the raws then add a markup so make the same per item profit and that wont change.  The prices folks will have to pay sadly will increase with this although generally I fully support this change...</DIV>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Lydiaele wrote: <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> deathtoyou5 wrote: <div>there will be alot more crafters that drive the price down.. but i dont care! im going to now make every crafting toon in the game so i never have to buy any of my gear again!im glad they did it makes crafting easier and faster.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>I don't want to rain on your parade, but you seem to be anticipating a much bigger change to crafting than we're getting.</p> <p>It's not supposed to faster to level a crafter.  </p> <p>I definitely don't see how it's going to be easier <em>at all</em>.  The crafting process is the same, only you're making final items only instead of subs and finals.  Finals are harder to make because they degrade in quality from pristine to regular upon losing a smaller percentage of their durability than subs.</p> <p>Up to you whether or not it's worth weeks of your play time to level all the tradeskill professions just to make your own stuff.  You could farm a whole lot of money in that time.</p> <hr> </blockquote>You will definitely level faster with NO SUBCOMBINES. When they put the changes in for Tier 1 and 2 -- I levele and alchemist to the next tier in a few hours. Without subcombines you can concentrate on only making the highest level stuff thus faster XP thus faster levelling.<hr></blockquote>Tier 1/2 does not indicate how these changes will be in higher tiers.Basically.. where you used to make 3 worts, to make 2 subcombines to make the final item, you'd get 3x1% + 2x2% + 1x5% XP (made up numbers)... thats a total of 12% XP for one combine.  Lets say you had to get 1200 "progress" in total across those 6 recipes aswell (made up number aswell).  Now you get 12% from the single combine, but have to get 1200 progress for that single combine too.  The final combine will take you alot longer than the final did before, but only slightly less than the 6 combines before because you dont have to change machines.  Thats a simplified view, but its what i have noticed.So basically you'll now to 8 final combines to level, each one taking lets say 5 minutes... as opposed to a whole bunch of subcombines that probably add up to only a little more than the total time.  Its not gonna change much.What it does mean is that you cant rip through low quality worts anymore, everything you craft will need to be pristine and that is where it will add alot of time, so the end result i think will be "simpler" crafting, but requiring more concetration and having a larger price to pay for failures and taking longer.  I dont think it will affect the economy all that much at the higher tiers, but we should see a HUGE influx of lower tier crafters who get fedup and bored and quit just after their 100% vitality and potions run out.</div>

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Karofin- wrote:<BR> <DIV>As an experienced crafter I feel that I should point out that the opposite is likely to happen - Prices will increase and not fall.  Still after months since T7 released I find the price of raws massively more expensive than the other tiers, and specifically T6 when it released.   Personally I buy the raws then add a markup so make the same per item profit and that wont change.  The prices folks will have to pay sadly will increase with this although generally I fully support this change...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>With the new tradeskill changes requiring more raws they have increased the amount of raws you get from each "harvest". So now when you harvest you get 1 item per pull. On test when you harvest you get 1-10 items per pull and sometimes a rare with a single pull. So in effect you can get 30 items and 3 rares. What this does is put alot more raws on the market and when there are a ton of a single item be it armor or raws the price goes down. Example of this was Acrylia on my server, started at 3 plat and went down to 15 gold, and this was pre update 23. However, with the lower tier items many of the raws are at a copper including some T7 raws. <BR><BR>Just my 2cp.</P> <P>/salute</P> <P>M.</P>

[cba3]

<P>Can anyone please direct me to a thread which details specific carpenter changes and the new tier 6 rare recepies?</P> <P>Many many thanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[thorvang]

i created a crafter on test server to test the changes. harvested some t1 stuff and build every initial recipe (from the first essentials book) as pristine. took me like 20 minutes and i've been lvl 10.then i crafted some recipes from the lvl 10 book as pristine and got 1/3rd of a level for every combine.and this is why leveling your crafting gets faster then before. you don't have to calculate, what subcombines are needed, craft dozens of worts and refined raws just to get your pristine bonus exp for every recipe. just build them all, as long as you have enough raws. grind through the recipes of every tier in a hurry and collect all the bonus exp.

[Galeden]

<DIV>I was foraging in commonlands for the first time this morning, and I saw no stones, just the ore, did they do something to the stone?  I know they removed fungi but haven't heard anything about stones.  Saw plenty of everything else but not a stone.  I'm an outfitter now btw, I don't nessisarly need it, but just curious cause it would still be needed in jewelcraft and such.</DIV>

[Maroger]

<P>I think one of the killers will be the fuel cost. Even today if you are doing a rare - there fuel is often triple what is required for a non rare. Fuel is consumed in even larger amount in the no-subcombines - so you will end up with a lot of money spent on fuel.</P> <P>Also, I don't know about you, but I have had occasions when I have cancelled out of combine, say I get 2 critical Failures in a row) and that is now going to be very expensive.</P> <P>As for getting raws  -- prices will sky rocket -- In T2 you use a lot of Tuber Strands -- it is needed to create all the tailoring cloth, as well as a component in about half the worts. The same thing witll Belladonna Root in T3, and Tussah in T4. The prices of these raws will skyrocket as you are going to be using a lot more of them than you did under the old system.</P> <P>Again they are abolishing the tedium of sub-combines and replacing it with the tedium of harvestin!!</P> <P>All in all I think they should leave this alone!!</P>

[thorvang]

don't forget the chance of multiple raws with one harvest. you can get up to 30 raws off one single node.

[Etherium]

<DIV>There is a change to harvesting too that should be taken into account.  There are ways to get more than one raw per click on a node now.  I believe it works this way:  if you have enough skill to harvest in the next tier, you have a chance to receive multiple raws.  From the harvesting I was doing on test, it increases yield quite a bit.</DIV>

[Jai1]

<P>As a jewelcrafter, I wonder where the competition is.  There are basically 2 on Najena that are broker selling and 1 is a merchant mule.  I'm not complaining because increased competition means lower profits for me.   I just thought with the T7 changes there would be a lot more people selling because it doesn't take as much time to stock up your store.  I imagine people don't like the product as much but there are still people buying stuff.  I sell a lot more common items than rare.  I just don't think the changes are going to attract as many new crafters as people think.  I swear sometimes it takes about 5 mins on unlucky combines to get pristine.  To old school TSers, it might not seem so bad but I could see how some would be adverse to the whole process.  Personally, I'm looking forward to the changes.  I have a 45 armorer on hold and a newbie woodworker I'd like to start leveling.  I just don't want to make combines anymore.  Too much thinking and running around.</P>

[cba3]

<DIV>I have had some ironwood made into lumber in preperation for the t6 rare furniture.. which of course they are saying will use the raw wood now...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Given that we will still be able to use any inks we have made up, can anyone please confirm that planed ironwood will be able to be used in place of the raw?</DIV>

[selch]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maroger wrote:<BR> <BR>You will definitely level faster with NO SUBCOMBINES. When they put the changes in for Tier 1 and 2 -- I levele and alchemist to the next tier in a few hours. Without subcombines you can concentrate on only making the highest level stuff thus faster XP thus faster levelling.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Beep.. wrong... With same number of raws, you get 12% xp with no-subcombine over 50% xp with subcombine...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So considering there is not enough raws for everyone on broker, most of time will be spended adventuring between nodes.. will equal out many things...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Howlingmoon]

<blockquote><hr>cba321 wrote:<DIV>I have had some ironwood made into lumber in preperation for the t6 rare furniture.. which of course they are saying will use the raw wood now...</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Given that we will still be able to use any inks we have made up, can anyone please confirm that planed ironwood will be able to be used in place of the raw?</DIV><hr></blockquote><font color="#E2BD01">Test Update Notes: May 22nd , 2006 05/22/2006 10:00 pm PDT*** Tradeskills ***- All interim and refined components can now be used in place of raw items.

[cba3]

<P>YAY.. thanks Howlingmoon. I had trawled everywhere.. there SO much information and most of it waffle and complaints its hard to find actual solid details!</P> <P>/breathe sigh of relief!</P>

[DmZB]

<HR> <DIV>Selch wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maroger wrote:<BR> <BR>You will definitely level faster with NO SUBCOMBINES. When they put the changes in for Tier 1 and 2 -- I levele and alchemist to the next tier in a few hours. Without subcombines you can concentrate on only making the highest level stuff thus faster XP thus faster levelling.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Beep.. wrong... With same number of raws, you get 12% xp with no-subcombine over 50% xp with subcombine...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So considering there is not enough raws for everyone on broker, most of time will be spended adventuring between nodes.. will equal out many things...</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Ya Selch, you are correct, and in some recipes its even more...but its been pointed out many times, and people just don't seem to care...and now they will use the increased harvest quantity as an argument this is a wash.  But its not really.  They are taking away our choice, our ability to plan.  If I just dinged 60 and i wanted to use all my hard won T7 harvests to make strongboxes (at Lvl 65), my only option is to make tier 7 junk and vendor (using up my raws) or make tier 6 strongboxes to get there.  If it was set up as in previous tiers, i could begin to process my T7 harvest into subs, leveling to 65 with level appropriate recipes, and utilize all of my harvest on what i want to make.  There are analogies in all the crafts.</DIV> <DIV>But I think the people that agree with us are giving up, they are tired of arguing with the ritilan crowd.  Let them have what they think they want, they will soon find out it takes just as long to level up as it did before, and with much LESS diversity in recipes or stations, their attention will wane all that much quicker, and they will be back at us to make stuff for them.  And I will be increasing my prices.  That is, if there is anything that i craft left that people still want.  If they complain that it should be cheap now that its easy to craft, i will kindly point in the direction of the open tradeskill and tell them to have at it.  I've already had people complain that 10g for a tier 7 combine is WAY too much, and i had no problem in ignoring him as he read off T7 fuel prices and how it was single combine and tried to talk my price down.  If my investment in time is to be a wasted effort, fine so be it.  I'll let my friends and guildies benefit from it.  But not some joe off the street that has no problem insulting me and my effort.  I'd rather quit.</DIV>

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DmZBaT wrote:<BR> <HR> <DIV>Selch wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maroger wrote:<BR> <BR>You will definitely level faster with NO SUBCOMBINES. When they put the changes in for Tier 1 and 2 -- I levele and alchemist to the next tier in a few hours. Without subcombines you can concentrate on only making the highest level stuff thus faster XP thus faster levelling.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Beep.. wrong... With same number of raws, you get 12% xp with no-subcombine over 50% xp with subcombine...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So considering there is not enough raws for everyone on broker, most of time will be spended adventuring between nodes.. will equal out many things...</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Ya Selch, you are correct, and in some recipes its even more...but its been pointed out many times, and people just don't seem to care...and now they will use the increased harvest quantity as an argument this is a wash.  But its not really.  They are taking away our choice, our ability to plan.  If I just dinged 60 and i wanted to use all my hard won T7 harvests to make strongboxes (at Lvl 65), my only option is to make tier 7 junk and vendor (using up my raws) or make tier 6 strongboxes to get there.  If it was set up as in previous tiers, i could begin to process my T7 harvest into subs, leveling to 65 with level appropriate recipes, and utilize all of my harvest on what i want to make.  There are analogies in all the crafts.</DIV> <DIV>But I think the people that agree with us are giving up, <FONT color=#ff0000>they are tired of arguing with the ritilan crowd</FONT>.  Let them have what they think they want, they will soon find out it takes just as long to level up as it did before, and with much LESS diversity in recipes or stations, their attention will wane all that much quicker, and they will be back at us to make stuff for them.  And I will be increasing my prices.  That is, if there is anything that i craft left that people still want.  If they complain that it should be cheap now that its easy to craft, i will kindly point in the direction of the open tradeskill and tell them to have at it.  I've already had people complain that 10g for a tier 7 combine is WAY too much, and i had no problem in ignoring him as he read off T7 fuel prices and how it was single combine and tried to talk my price down.  If my investment in time is to be a wasted effort, fine so be it.  I'll let my friends and guildies benefit from it.  But not some joe off the street that has no problem insulting me and my effort.  I'd rather quit.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Should I call you the unemployed staying with your parents crowd? I can understand your gripe, but I like the change, and I'm not on ritalin.<BR>

[Howlingmoon]

<font color="#E2BD01">How about keeping it civilized, and not calling anyone anything. <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[DeathRider69]

<font color="#cc0000"><font color="#cccc00">Even with all of the BMC (btch moan complain) I have been reading, I still think things will be the better for a lot of crafters who now have been a bit burnt on multi-combines.  I know that I quit making armor and working my sage as it took MANY hours to do all the subs needed just to make set of armor or prep for a mass batch of spell scrolls.  Subcombines are also the reason I think the have cause woodworkers to only make arrows for the select few versus selling on the broker.I know that I will be able to crank out arrows!   Presently to make 1200 arrows, I have to make 16 sets of 3 arrow heads (from 16 metal bars), 48 shafts, 48 fletching, and 56 sets  of worts.   Now depending on my level I can get around 1 to 1.25 levels doing this recipe and that is a good thing from subcombines.  Yet to make these arrows with everything pristine it usually takes me around 2 hours to do the prep and about 30-40 mins to do the final subs.  So for 1200 arrows it takes about 3 hours with power + bio breaks and I get as much as 2 levels for the recipe.With the no-subs I now lose all of the XP  (have not tested to get XP diff for the no-subs versus subs) I would get on the subs but the time is reduced by 1/.3.   I approximately an hours I can make the same 1200 in an hour, but only get ~50% XP.  Yet for the same 3 hours I can now make 3600 Arrows versus the 1200 and still get ~150% XP for the arrows.Granted that XP will be slower coming and it will take longer to level.  Add in the additional raws and fuel to be the kicker.  But I will not know how bad those are until it hits.  While I am with everyone on SOE making changes that favor them and remove fun for the paying customer, I feel that the Devs will have given good thought to how many raws and fuels would have been needed for the subs and put that into the new recipe. Using the arrow example:  Raws Needed:  1/2 wood, 1/2 root, 1/2 metal, 2 1/2 candle, 3 liquid for worts, 1 root, 1/3 metal, 1 wood for fletching, arrow head, shaft + 3 fuel.  => 1 1/2. wood, 1 1/2 root, 5/6 metal, 3.5 fuel, 3 liquid.  Thus I could see something like 2 wood, 2 root, 1 metal, and like 6 fuel per batch of 25 arrows.  I am on the fence but I had doing all of the subs all of the time.  While I do not mind as much in the same level, it really sucks do go back tiers and spend hours doing subs for a single item.  I am more pro-nosubs at the moment.  As for harvesting...  I had the problem early on in the game.  Used to hit up TS and never find a thing with all of the quest harvesters.  Then I found new areas and new harvesting spots.  I have learned the best times to harvest and have not had issues getting all I needed.   For those that are whining that they have to pay more, tough.  Most have no problems selling a rare crafted item for 2-3p but complain about having to pay 1p for the rare and at most a gold per raw (for which I thank you greatly!).  If you do not like the price, go harvest yourself or pay someone to do it for you.</font></font><div></div>

[Goemoe]

I craft to supply other players. I don't craft to earn money. For me the latter is <b>working</b> not playing. As a crafter in many other games I loved EQ2 for its nice approach and absolutely hate resins, washes, oils and tempers. I would not mind doing subcombines (other than fluids) at all, it feels right to do them, but I do mind spending much to much time crafting on a single item. The old system took much to long. I don't care for the xp either. If a crafted item provides not enough xp, there will be countless winers crying it up enough soon. I do care for the ability to be able to provide a set of armor in an acceptable time, or a scroll or a sword or else. With the old system I played two crafters (tailor and sage) until now. With the new I am sure, all my chars will get a profession and I do craft up to the end normally <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Good change SOE <div></div>

[Cuz]

It was fun when a guildie would ask you for 10 levels of app IVs crossing 2 tiers wasn't it?

[tashanin]

I've got a couple crafters (Armorer and Alchemist) on live and I'll have to say I'm welcoming this change...Spending some time on test making armor it almost made me giggle that I could make armor for my character when my character needs it without having to spend 1-2 hours to make 7 pieces of armor.  Yeah, the WORTS and interims had their place, but they were extremely overwhelming for casual players and ended making botting a whole lot more appealing.  I don't know about any of you, but I'll admit the fact that I've used my key binding game pad to rip through a bunch of worts while I watched a DVD on another computer.  No, I didn't leave my computer playing EQ2, yes I was still sitting there monitoring the progress of the combines.  Getting rid of this is tedium is going to make it so I don't WANT to do that.  I find myself not wanting to make 200+ WORTS, Studs, sheets, padding, harnesses, patterns all of varying qualities and only have to make pristine plates and rings to actually make the pristine quality armor.  (I normally only made armor in large qualities to justify the time spent crafting as well as my movie watching /shrug)  I never did liked macro'ing these steps.  It was a lot easier when I was on subatical, but now that I'm back in the office.  Making anything takes a night of playtime.  Another reason that I'm looking forward to these changes is the fact that I'm one of 3 armorers in my guild.  As well I'm the highest level armorer.  I'm always getting requests to make armor here and there for guild members.  Every time I get one, it blows away a night of game time for me.  The ability to fulfill these requests without drastically impacting my playtime is very attractive to me.  My group typically fights and harvests at the same time since we are all working on tradeskills as well as levels.  So it makes it a bit easier on us when we hit a new tier and it's time for new gear to not have to set aside a weekend to make all the parts armor, weapons, jewelery, combat arts, spells and food.  That is the reason that I'm welcoming the change.  Yes ... There will be a bigger draw to have people start craftingYes ... If more people do craft, the prices of the items will drop, but it will be slower than some here are expectingYes ... We will most likely get less experience because of the lack of sub-combines, but will make it up in quantity of goodsNo ... This doesn't spell the doom of EverQuest 2.  It will continue to move on and people will adapt.  They always doNo ... This isn't going to completely kill the crafting market.  It will continue to move on and people will adapt.  (Hopefully, it will reduce the price gouging on certain items as well)No ... People aren't going to be flooding the tradeskill instances because of this new system.  There will be population increase at first, but it will die back down in about 3 months.  For examples, look at the releasing of the frogloks as well as any of the revamped content.  It will be a novilty at first but will eventually wear off and everything will come back to normal again.  Agree with me or disagree with me, it all works out SOE's way in the end.~Gladius FrogitusGuardian of Divine AuraNajena Server<div></div>

[Rijacki]

<div><blockquote><hr>Jenoy wrote:<div></div>It was fun when a guildie would ask you for 10 levels of app IVs crossing 2 tiers wasn't it?<hr></blockquote>Especially when you didn't have any of the subs ready -and- the person expected you to supply all the raws and fuels (and whatever) as well as have them all done in a short time because that person's time was obviously valuable (but yours was not).Yeah.. loved those days *rolls eyes*  And I quit -that- guild and didn't go out of my way to play with the person, too, who suggested that I pay him to protect me to harvest to make -his- essences while I paid for the fuels and suspension and all -and- had the gall to explain they didn't want to ask me to groups because they were leveling faster than I was (they were only ahead of me by a couple levels at that point).</div>

[Ebjelen]

<blockquote><hr>Jenoy wrote:<div></div>It was fun when a guildie would ask you for 10 levels of app IVs crossing 2 tiers wasn't it?<hr></blockquote>and they want a "special" guildie rate. <span>:smileyindifferent: It's why I don't guild much anymore. Most guilds will keep you busy every waking moment and forget that you'd like to see some blood, err, sunshine. That's a positive for the tradeskill revamp, less time chained to a crafting table in the dungeon. Anyone ever wonder why ALL of the city crafting zones were in basements? </span><div></div>

[Hemotem]

<P>I am now on test and I am loving the new combine system and the harvest system.</P> <P>  I have one of each of the tradeskillers granted they are not all at the no subcombine mark yet. But for the most part I am loving the crafting system.</P> <P>  I dont make to sell to other players very often I make to keep or to sell to the merchant. </P> <P> From what I have found out so far is that you are getting your money back plus a nice bonus for the amount of raws you have to use.</P> <P>I currently have</P> <OL> <LI>29 carpenter</LI> <LI>30 something sage</LI> <LI>10 tailor</LI> <LI>10 armorsmith</LI> <LI>10 weaponsmith</LI> <LI>30ish alchemist</LI> <LI>22 provisioner</LI> <LI>20 something woodwoker</LI> <LI>10 jewler</LI></OL> <P>I have made all but one of these toons in the last week. The sage is the oldest toon on the server so he had 100% vitality when he started.</P> <P>and from what I have been able to put together all of the tradeskills that I have done in one week spending approximatly 30 min. up to 4 hrs of crafting/harvesting.</P> <P>All in all I welcome these changes I cant wait to see the crafting become so much enjoyable instead of "Oh I need to make 100 inks so there goes my day." Now it seems on test atleast I will be saying "Cool time to make the spells to sell. chaching chaching $ $"</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000 size=5><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>To this I say</FONT><STRONG> BRING IT TO LIVE ALREADY !!!! </STRONG><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>Fix any bugs first tho <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000 size=5><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>I</FONT></FONT><FONT color=#ffffff> cannot wait till it becomes reality on LIVE servers</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Galeden]

<DIV>*Accidental Post*</DIV><p>Message Edited by Galeden on <span class=date_text>06-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:21 PM</span>

[Galeden]

<DIV>*accidental post*</DIV><p>Message Edited by Galeden on <span class=date_text>06-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:21 PM</span>

[Galeden]

<DIV>I think the xp could use just a little tweaking maybe, mostly because reduced recipes and no sub components means a lot less first pristine bonuses, loss of xp due to subs etc.  Not asking for a big increase maybe just a little to offset things.  I think this will be a good thing to get more crafters into the fields that before took a lot more work then others, like armorer and tailoring, though alchemists seem to loose quite a bit, no more inks, no more imbue substances, etc.  I started tailoring on test cause on live I could never get past making so many subs for one piece of armor, it was way too tedious, but now its fun to craft outfits, bags, etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS. Umm GAH! when I was typing donno what happened, suddenly the screen flashed but didnt look like anything happened except there was red text saying I tried posting twice in 5 seconds or something.  I guess it took me hitting enter as submiting or something.  I didn't know it had actually posted anything till I finished typing my post and submited it.  Sorry about that, Mod feel free to remove the blank two posts.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Galeden on <span class=date_text>06-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:23 PM</span>

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rijacki wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jenoy wrote:<BR> It was fun when a guildie would ask you for 10 levels of app IVs crossing 2 tiers wasn't it?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Especially when you didn't have any of the subs ready -and- the person expected you to supply all the raws and fuels (and whatever) as well as have them all done in a short time because that person's time was obviously valuable (but yours was not).<BR><BR>Yeah.. loved those days *rolls eyes*  <BR><BR>And I quit -that- guild and didn't go out of my way to play with the person, too, who suggested that I pay him to protect me to harvest to make -his- essences while I paid for the fuels and suspension and all -and- had the gall to explain they didn't want to ask me to groups because they were leveling faster than I was (they were only ahead of me by a couple levels at that point).<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Bwahahahahaha!</P> <P>Man there are some stupid people out there. Glad you got out of it my dear <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Maroger]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maroger wrote:<BR> <BR>You will definitely level faster with NO SUBCOMBINES. When they put the changes in for Tier 1 and 2 -- I levele and alchemist to the next tier in a few hours. Without subcombines you can concentrate on only making the highest level stuff thus faster XP thus faster levelling.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Beep.. wrong... With same number of raws, you get 12% xp with no-subcombine over 50% xp with subcombine...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So considering there is not enough raws for everyone on broker, most of time will be spended adventuring between nodes.. will equal out many things...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Matematically it should be correct, but the reality is different - at least at T2 level. Believe I do not like the changes as I really think our XP overall will go down. I think that it will only be noticeable at higher levels thought.  </P> <P>Provided you have all the raws you can rip through t1 and T2 in a hurry -- far less time than it used to take when you made WORTS.  And the XP will be good and fast at lower level. The higher levels is where the loss of sub-combines will hurt your XP.</P> <P>Actually I think crafting will be more expensive if you have to buy raws than it is now. Personally I prefer the way it is now and wish that the change would not go forward. I think it is a big mistake. But I do think levelling at the lower levels will be faster and easier for players than with sub-combines.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Maroger on <span class=date_text>06-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:08 PM</span>