Guardian not gonna be a group protector anymore?

[FreaklyCreak]

<DIV>- Guardian: Sentinel: Reduced some of the higher level chances at intercepting damage. Can only be used on Priests or Mages.<BR></DIV> <DIV>So, we cant have a hate reduction on scouts anymore? Thats just pathetic pick on the tank because you also are picking on EVERYONE else. Thanks SoE for the nerfage to my guard, I was really starting to enjoy the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some of the changes have NO POINT TO THEM.</DIV>

[Galn]

<DIV>As a scout I can see why they are doing this change. Most scouts, if not all, have a way of getting the mobs attention back on the tank. Mages and Priests do not, and tend to be a lot more fragile than the average scout. </DIV>

[S]

Yes, but what's the point? Let me as a Guardian do my job, and that's it. Now I have to worry about the Scout not using his de-aggro abilities? Why? Just let me do my job, and stop fixing what isn't broken.

[Galn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SXO wrote:<BR> Yes, but what's the point? Let me as a Guardian do my job, and that's it. Now I have to worry about the Scout not using his de-aggro abilities? Why? Just let me do my job, and stop fixing what isn't broken.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You missed my point... Scouts do not need you to use this ability on them as much as priests and Mages, we (yes I have a lvl 48 swashy), can give the aggro right back to the tank if we get the mobs attention so them taking scouts off the list of classes this works with is like saying now your gilf clubs wont work with basketballs anymore. I also would wonder why a Guardian would waste this skill on a scout anyways, it is much more important that it be used if/when a mage or priest gets aggro.

[MrMartin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Galn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> I also would wonder why a Guardian would waste this skill on a scout anyways, it is much more important that it be used if/when a mage or priest gets aggro.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Thats why we have 2 avoidance check spells, one that has a reduce-aggro-component and one that gives the Guardian more Parry.<BR>You put the Parry skill on the Priest and the reduce-aggro on the highest DPS... and many times that is a scout. If a Priest steals aggro from you, you seriously need to rethink if you should be a tank or not.</P> <P>EDIT:<BR>Hmm, after actually checking what Sentinel does my above statment is not correct. Still, pretty stupid to not be able to intercept damage from a scout... thats like our... core ability. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>BTW, Priests have deaggro skills to. (Don't know about mages tho.)</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by MrMartin on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:32 AM</span>

[enrique_to]

<div><blockquote><hr>FreaklyCreak wrote:<div></div> <div>- Guardian: Sentinel: Reduced some of the higher level chances at intercepting damage. Can only be used on Priests or Mages.</div> <div>So, we cant have a hate reduction on scouts anymore? Thats just pathetic pick on the tank because you also are picking on EVERYONE else. Thanks SoE for the nerfage to my guard, I was really starting to enjoy the class.</div> <div> </div> <div>Some of the changes have NO POINT TO THEM.</div><hr></blockquote>It's a nerf, it's true. But the ones who most need this are mages and priest. So It's not a great nerf.</div>

[Signal9]

<P>Coercers have aggro-reduction spells, Illusionists do also.  Not sure about the summoner/sorceror subclasses, though.</P> <P> </P> <P>Edit:  One of the 2 Coercer spells is losing it's de-aggro in the LU, though.</P><p>Message Edited by Signal9 on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:54 AM</span>

[Finora]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Galn wrote:<BR> <DIV>As a scout I can see why they are doing this change. Most scouts, if not all, have a way of getting the mobs attention back on the tank. Mages and Priests do not, and tend to be a lot more fragile than the average scout. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>All priests and mages have deagro skills, if they don't use them, that is their fault. Priest ones do have a fairly long recast (minutes) but if they are getting agro often enough that it isn't up before they need it again, they need to work on their methods.</P> <P>Still, the change seems a bit pointless.</P>

[mctiger3000]

i dont belive they talking of moderate i think they speaking of the buff that incesses parry of gaurd

[Fildarum]

<DIV>as a fury i have 1 deagro line and that is on a 5 minute recast and an AOE root... while it may get the first attacker back to the tank, it usually just brings more adds to the fight.  And if it's already been used I'm pretty screwed.</DIV>

[Lordviperscorpian]

If a scout is drawing to much aggro he is over DPSing or not hiting his deaggro enough.  Swash/brigs should never have aggro unless they intended to get it, and if they do they can cast 1 CA to remove all hate.  Rangers and assassins have various deaggro abilities as well.  Any scout who gains aggro simply isnt using enough deaggro.<div></div>

[Prub]

<P>Hmm wonder if that means Amends is next on the list.</P> <P> </P> <P>If thats what they are thinking that scouts have deagro while priests and mages either dont have one or its reuse is way too long.</P> <P> </P> <P>So perhaps amends is next to be changed to priest /mage only.</P>

[Sirlutt]

i love this.. lol.. this whole thread is an overation to dissinformation that doesnt exist.your hate reducer is FINE.. its not changing.. so stop whining. (and read what your spells do).The change to sentinel is fine, 9/10 your going to put it on the healer anyhow.intercept lines still work across groups in raid, and our other abilities still work fine.sheesh.. some of you people will look for ANY excuse to whine about something you <b><font color="#ff0000">HAVE EVEN FARKING PLAYED YET.</font></b><div></div>

[Tearhart]

<DIV>As a scout (55 ranger) i have rarely if ever had sentinel cast on myself. I dont need hate reducers, If a guard, or any other tank is worth their salt, no one except mages will have a chance of getting aggro. Then again, i dont go into combat with all my combat arts blazing. Besides, rangers can get hit and survive, unlike eq1. Mages and priests less so. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My two cents</DIV>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Galn wrote:<BR> <DIV>As a scout I can see why they are doing this change. Most scouts, if not all, have a way of getting the mobs attention back on the tank. Mages and Priests do not, and tend to be a lot more fragile than the average scout. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>healers dont pull aggro and if you cant use dmg soaks on another fighter.. they are yet again still useless.

[Bledso]

<P>Agreed as a Ranger I can take care of myself and do not need any protection from any tank in regards to aggro</P> <P>I have the spells & stealth necessary to lose the aggro, then I hold off atacking until the tank regains aggro - then unload again.</P> <P>As far as losing the ability to protect us - if you were using it to protect us it was a complete waste of power, regardless of the dps we do.</P> <P>PS we wear chain for a reason too.....    Guardians and tanks take care of the tissue wearers.....   </P>

[Bantel]

<DIV>Sustain (Master I)<BR>Target:  Group Friend  <BR>Power:  84  <BR>Recovery:  0.5 seconds  <BR>Recast:  30.0 seconds  <BR>Duration:  180.0 seconds  <BR>Level: 62 <BR>Guardian  <BR>Effects:  <BR>  • 56% chance to intercept all physical damage on target.On a successful intercept caster takes 100% of attack damage, target takes 25% of attack damage.  <BR> <BR>And, from the Test Update #24 patch notes:</DIV> <DIV><EM>Abilities that intercept damage received by an ally will now consider the intercepter's mitigation to that damage. This will allow fighters in raids to make use of their mitigation and resists.</EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I suppose they don't want multiple tanks to Intercept on the MT, hence the nerf.</DIV> <DIV>Can't think of a situation where I would stack Guardians in a group just for this uber ability, but apparently someone did <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone on test that can post the new spell description for intercept/sustain line?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Tearhart wrote:<div>As a scout (55 ranger) i have rarely if ever had sentinel cast on myself. I dont need hate reducers, If a guard, or any other tank is worth their salt, no one except mages will have a chance of getting aggro. Then again, i dont go into combat with all my combat arts blazing. Besides, rangers can get hit and survive, unlike eq1. Mages and priests less so. </div> <div> </div> <div>My two cents</div><hr></blockquote>The spell the OP is having a fit over has nothing to do with hate.. its an interception spell... he/she needs to reread their spell descriptions.</div>

[bluefish]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Calendri wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Galn wrote:<BR> <DIV>As a scout I can see why they are doing this change. Most scouts, if not all, have a way of getting the mobs attention back on the tank. Mages and Priests do not, and tend to be a lot more fragile than the average scout. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>All priests and mages have deagro skills, if they don't use them, that is their fault. Priest ones do have a fairly long recast (minutes) but if they are getting agro often enough that it isn't up before they need it again, they need to work on their methods.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The same can be said for Scouts.  Every class should know how to manage aggro, not just the tank.<BR>

[SisterTheresa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JNewby wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Galn wrote:<BR> <DIV>As a scout I can see why they are doing this change. Most scouts, if not all, have a way of getting the mobs attention back on the tank. Mages and Priests do not, and tend to be a lot more fragile than the average scout. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT color=#ffff00>healers dont pull aggro</FONT> and if you cant use dmg soaks on another fighter.. they are yet again still useless.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Incorrect.  We do pull it while trying to heal.  My master heal can do up to 1k healing and that angers the mobs since I'm reversing all the damage they did.  As well as putting retroactive healing shields on tanks at beginning of battle I have gotten hate.</P> <P>So yes, healers CAN pull aggro when they do not attack.  I have come to the conclusion that all EQ2 mobs have "kill Templar" embedded in their DNA coding.<BR></P>

[SisterTheresa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bluefish wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Calendri wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Galn wrote:<BR> <DIV>As a scout I can see why they are doing this change. Most scouts, if not all, have a way of getting the mobs attention back on the tank. Mages and Priests do not, and tend to be a lot more fragile than the average scout. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>All priests and mages have deagro skills, if they don't use them, that is their fault. Priest ones do have a fairly long recast (minutes) but <FONT color=#ffff00>if they are getting agro often enough that it isn't up before they need it again, they need to work on their methods</FONT>.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The same can be said for Scouts.  Every class should know how to manage aggro, not just the tank.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>If what you say is correct - highlighted- then I will not heal you.  Healing when used properly can cen get aggro on me, and I only do bit heals when you in bottom yellow/orange zone.  Sometimes I don't do anything and they come right at me.  So it has nothing to do with methods for the most part unless the healer is spamming heals all the time.</P>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FreaklyCreak wrote:<BR> <DIV>- Guardian: Sentinel: Reduced some of the higher level chances at intercepting damage. Can only be used on Priests or Mages.<BR></DIV> <DIV>So, we cant have a hate reduction on scouts anymore? Thats just pathetic pick on the tank because you also are picking on EVERYONE else. Thanks SoE for the nerfage to my guard, I was really starting to enjoy the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some of the changes have NO POINT TO THEM.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I believe its Moderate that lowers Hate gain, not Sentinel line.

[Oakum]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JNewby wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Galn wrote:<BR> <DIV>As a scout I can see why they are doing this change. Most scouts, if not all, have a way of getting the mobs attention back on the tank. Mages and Priests do not, and tend to be a lot more fragile than the average scout. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>healers dont pull aggro and if you cant use dmg soaks on another fighter.. they are yet again still useless.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is a bit of mistatement. Priest do pull aggro but usually in two situations. One where the tank does a body pull and takes a big hit before taunting (its not always easy for me to tell if the tank has taunted since health bars are the most important thing for a priest to watch but the tank must live normally unless its a test pull and he/she is trying to split up groups of mobs)  so the priest has to heal. The second is when there is a lot of adds or a series of quick adds and the priest goes all out to keep the tank up but aggro is not built up on the new adds yet or the hate is built up by heals over time(aoe taunt may be down, ect). No built up hate equals any mob going after the healer normally.  The warden spell is a deaggro root.  Unless we can move fast enough and have room, we will still be getting hit while trying to get away since rooted targets switch to the closest in range group member. We dont last long from 3up hits wearing leather, 2 to 4 hits if lucky and we have usually been hit once or twice by the time the spell goes off. </P> <P>The fury's is slightly better since the mobs are ensnared, IMO, and therefor go after the next target on the hate list. Warden deaggro spell decreases hate by 3800 at master 1 or it might be 3200 if my memory serves me right (I am at work). Therefore if one heal equals one point of hate by the time the root breaks we can be back to the same spot on the hate list as before the root unless rescued ect or the mob is taunted. Deagro spells are AOE for druid at least. What happens when you root a mob that is not aggro'ed by anyone yet (hasnt started fighting), of course it now goes after the rooter because the root itself causes aggro. That is why wardens dont use it as often as other healers. <BR></P> <P>Of course the recast timers severely limit all priest using them also and some consider them a waste of hotbar space since if they start healing themselves instead of the tank it gets the tanks attention and will keep the healer up as long as the deaggro spell is useful anyway.  </P>

[kap]

This power could have been used on a fighter? Would have been pretty powerful to have a bruiser/monk's avoidance + guardian's mitigation <div></div>

[Pins]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kaply wrote:<BR>This power could have been used on a fighter? Would have been pretty powerful to have a bruiser/monk's avoidance + guardian's mitigation<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Exactly.  Brawler tanking, Guardian in the group(their buffs are great for brawlers when tanking) tosses this on the brawler.  Walla, the brawler now avoids a majority of hits, and when hit has a 44% chance of having to take the entire hit, whereas the other 56% of the time the guardian will take the entire hit(which will be less), and the brawler will take only 25% of the hit.  Which means, less healing required, plus toss the Guardian's avoidance buff on the brawler and have the Guardian in defensive stance so he helps avoid even more, and the brawler will not be hit very much.

[Ydiss]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FreaklyCreak wrote:<BR> <DIV>- Guardian: Sentinel: Reduced some of the higher level chances at intercepting damage. Can only be used on Priests or Mages.<BR></DIV> <DIV>So, we cant have a hate reduction on scouts anymore? Thats just pathetic pick on the tank because you also are picking on EVERYONE else. <FONT color=#ffff00>Thanks SoE for the nerfage to my guard, I was really starting to enjoy the class.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some of the changes have NO POINT TO THEM.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I find this confusing. You were starting to enjoy your class and now this change will prevent you from enjoying your class? You pinned the majority of your enjoyment on the ability to use this ability to protect scouts?</P> <P>I often wonder why people relate enjoyment of a game to such things.</P> <P>Just come out and say what you really mean: You liked it the way it was before and can't stand having even the slightest thing taken away from you. You'd prefer the game to remain eternally static unless, of course, a change is a direct benefit to you. This is because your chosen class, whatever that may be, is plainly disadvantaged in every department, is not able to do its job and is only just about enjoyable. Should SOE choose to toy with your fragile enjoyment of the game, they're at risk of ruining the game for you.</P> <P>This is a minor change, not worthy of a thread let alone a cursory complaint.</P>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ydiss wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> FreaklyCreak wrote: <div></div> <div>- Guardian: Sentinel: Reduced some of the higher level chances at intercepting damage. Can only be used on Priests or Mages.</div> <div>So, we cant have a hate reduction on scouts anymore? Thats just pathetic pick on the tank because you also are picking on EVERYONE else. <font color="#ffff00">Thanks SoE for the nerfage to my guard, I was really starting to enjoy the class.</font></div> <div> </div> <div>Some of the changes have NO POINT TO THEM.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>I find this confusing. You were starting to enjoy your class and now this change will prevent you from enjoying your class? You pinned the majority of your enjoyment on the ability to use this ability to protect scouts?</p> <p>I often wonder why people relate enjoyment of a game to such things.</p> <p>Just come out and say what you really mean: You liked it the way it was before and can't stand having even the slightest thing taken away from you. You'd prefer the game to remain eternally static unless, of course, a change is a direct benefit to you. This is because your chosen class, whatever that may be, is plainly disadvantaged in every department, is not able to do its job and is only just about enjoyable. Should SOE choose to toy with your fragile enjoyment of the game, they're at risk of ruining the game for you.</p> <p>This is a minor change, not worthy of a thread let alone a cursory complaint.</p><hr></blockquote>*standing ovation*well said... the amount of people who create a thread complaining about the smallest minute details is amazing.  The changes are GOOD for guardians you idiots... good for all tank classes... its in no way a nerf.They FINALLY fix a set of abilities that most guards took off their hotbar and you ungrateful simpletons complain about it !.. </div>

[Kasar]

Only makes sense.  Those skills were broken for so long a few tweaks should be expected once they're more functional and more used.Besides.. Sentinel's really only useful placed on the main healer, if an add's on the healer, it's a reminder to get control.  Unmitigated it was a pretty strong reminder.  If you really want to intercept for a scout, there's stone sphere to cover the entire group or sentry watch which is now a group protection rather than the single-target it originally was.