Why is Enchanter damage being lowered further?

[WAPCE]

From yesterday's Test update notes:<i>-Illusionist: Color Shower: Casting time increased to 2.5 seconds. Reuse set at 45 seconds. Reduced duration to 10 seconds.</i>If I might recap what Illusionists have been given recently (I'm not familiar with every Coercer line, but I think they're in a similar boat): A good bite was taken out of damage with last LU's spell proc normalization. With TU24, we've had our primary nuke, which previously did 800 damage at best with Master I, had its damage decreased and its recast <b>doubled</b>. Our dumbfire pet is taking a significant hit as splash damage from the Summoner balancing. Our level 50/70 marquee AoE DoT is now being cut short, with increased recast and casting time, as well. Illusionist damage is meager at best, why is it being lowered further?<p>Message Edited by WAPCE on <span class=date_text>05-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:58 AM</span>

[skidmark]

If this is a DOT, and they didn't change the total damage, they just increased the DPS by shrinking duration, right?

[Eu]

<DIV>Apparently you missed the part in the phrase where the reuse timer was changed up to 45 seconds.</DIV> <DIV>Therefore, no, this would not be an increase in damage. </DIV>

[Wrapye]

<div></div>The change to Psychic Wail/Sonic Boom (lowering duration to 5 seconds) just affects the duration of the stun, as our PBAOE is DD, not DoT.  They already lowered the dps of the spell line by lowering the damage and increasing the recast timer the first time through.edit:  typo<div></div><p>Message Edited by sacremon on <span class=date_text>05-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:06 AM</span>

[Maroger]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WAPCE wrote:<BR>From yesterday's Test update notes:<BR><BR><I>-Illusionist: Color Shower: Casting time increased to 2.5 seconds. Reuse set at 45 seconds. Reduced duration to 10 seconds.</I><BR><BR>If I might recap what Illusionists have been given recently (I'm not familiar with every Coercer line, but I think they're in a similar boat): A good bite was taken out of damage with last LU's spell proc normalization. With TU24, we've had our primary nuke, which previously did 800 damage at best with Master I, had its damage decreased and its recast <B>doubled</B>. Our dumbfire pet is taking a significant hit as splash damage from the Summoner balancing. Our level 50/70 marquee AoE DoT is now being cut short, with increased recast and casting time, as well. Illusionist damage is meager at best, why is it being lowered further? <P>Message Edited by WAPCE on <SPAN class=date_text>05-23-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:58 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Coercers are bering nerfed too in the same way. Our EGO SHOCK line of spells got shorter duration, .longer recast, less damage and the replaced the ROOT it had with some sort of stupid DAZE. We are being hurt very badly!<BR>

[DwarvesR]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maroger wrote:<BR> <BR>too in the same way. Our EGO SHOCK line of spells got shorter duration, .longer recast, less damage and the replaced the ROOT it had with some sort of stupid DAZE. We are being hurt very badly!<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>And it got made AoE.  And the daze prevents the mob from attacking or using CA's, and doesn't break on damage, so it effectively pulls a group of mobs together allowing for them to be AoE'd more easily by a conj or warlock in your group too.  Or against 1-2 mobs, you still have plenty of time to root and mez them while they are under the daze effect and can't hurt you, even if standing on top of you.</P> <P>As it currently is, if I Ego Shock a mob, I immediately follow up with a mez to lock it down from being able to cast a spell or use a ranged CA on me.  Now I'll Ego Shock and then cast Hesitation instead.  What'll be different?  I'll click one button to the right of where I used to.  Plus now I can used the Ego Shock to better control a group of mobs. *ZOMG!!!!  What a huge nerf!* /rolleyes  </P> <P>IMO, it actually became *more* powerful due to this change, not less.  In spite of what everyone seems to like to say about it, it is *not* the coercer's primary nuke -- that would be the Seizure/Stroke line.  Sure it does a little less damage than the Ego Shock line did, but one can cast it every 4 seconds (faster with AA's), where Ego Shock was 1x per 17 seconds.  Hmm.  4 shots at 350 in the same time as 1 shot for 500. . . . . .which is the primary again?  The one that does 1400 in 16 seconds or the one that does 500 in 17?</P> <P>That said. . . I would prefer if the Ego line didn't become AoE and kept the 15 second cast. . . . </P>

[OperationsX]

<P>They are nerfing everything if you look at it: </P> <P>Improving chanters control abilities but nerfing their damage output and AE mezz</P> <P>Nerfing Summoners</P> <P>Nerfing Bards</P> <P>Nerfing fighters solo abilities and some scouts (even tho the cheap shot nerf is probably the most minor nerf compared to the other archtypes)</P> <P>Nerfing Tradeskills (for hardcore tradeskill money makers who did tasks and writs and did lower tier stuff that no one else wanted to market  cuz of sub nusiance)</P> <P>Nerfing Gatherers (hardcore gatherers no longer will make the same money, infact not even close to the same..this is good since the toned down *most* TS classes earning potential more every LU so gatherers made several times more than TSers, especially those lovely harvest bots)</P> <P>Nerfing Control spells (all but chanter)</P> <P> </P> <P>Nerf nerf nerf :smileywink:</P><p>Message Edited by OperationsX on <span class=date_text>05-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:16 PM</span>

[Aienaa]

<DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Improving chanters control abilities but nerfing their damage output and AE mezz</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Nerfing Control spells (all but chanter)</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>Seems to me that the majority of the Enchanter community consider these Control Changes nerfs...  In many situations thier mez duration has been cut short, recast times increased...  Not to mention the Epic portions where you can mez for a few second with a few minute immunity...  It's all 1 big nerf for everyone...</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 70 Assassin</P></DIV>

[Sir Blig]

<DIV>Nerfing Bards?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not sure how much the Dirges have been affected, but were troubs are concerned they are not just nerfing they are NERFING the hell out of two of their MAJOR spells to the point of destruction, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>May as well hack the Bard part of your post and put in Troub, (Feel free to correct me Dirges)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One of the posts in the troub board made me laugh as it was so true, was along the lines of,</DIV> <DIV>Were the Stun was reduced by around two seconds all other affected classes showed what they thought of it, in the tiny Troub corner there was pretty well NO mention of the stun change, why? Well because on the scale of the destruction of Troub Mez and Charm the changes to the stun ability do not even make it onto the map.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mez and charm were major utilities when it came to Troubs soloing and very very big for managing to survive when getting more than one opponent or an add. In groups they were very helpful in getting out of tight spots ie when adds accidentally blundered by. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Troubs are not tanks, they cant take the hits very well and they take fairly high damage<BR>Troubs are not DPS, we are no-were near any of the 'DPS' classes<BR>Troubs are not healers, our TINY heal buff hardly does anything</DIV> <DIV>Troubs are hardly the best buffers while we have an ok array of buffs some nice buffs some not so, most are done better by other classes. So depending one the group layout we can end up with many useless buffs</DIV> <DIV>On high level mobs mez and charm we not guarantied, charm loved to break the moment the mob started taking damage and one heroics mez was resisted quiet often,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At best during the average group exploits, charm was hardly used due to many mobs being immune to it, resists, and woof does it make mobs wana kill the troub bad the second it breaks. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mez was mostly used on adds or very early on, usually when certain strategies were needed, the major prob with mez is the moment DoT's are around you can forget about mezing the mob again because any damage breaks it, hey I have to even stop using my wis group debuff because it does DoT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another major issue about mez, for each mob mez'ed the troub is reducing the amount of dps they can do!!!!</DIV> <DIV>1 targets mez'ed = Maby 50% dps if lucky<BR>2 targets mez'ed = Maby 20% dps if very lucky <BR>3 targets mez'ed = ZERO dps, it is norm for at least one or two resists, while on occasion I have managed to mezed 3 it normaly ends up with one pounding on me when trying to re-mez<BR>4 targets mez'ed = ZERO dps, this is the max we could possibly do, we would have absolutely NO time to do any dps as all effort would go into maintaining mez, and any resists=angry mob pounding troubs (I cant remember managing to keep 4 mezed or if I ever have it would have been a once off)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So there was already a price on a troub keeping a small number of mobs locked up</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A few nights ago I was grouped and was trying to mez mobs even con mobs and was just able to hold one, no mater how hard I tried and I was trying the whole time! I could not mez more than one at a time thanks to a massive number of resists. And for that long fight my dps was pretty well zero.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back to solo, all charm really did was help reduce the odds by 1 and chances were it would be back to pounding the troub soon, on a one on one mez was a lifesaver, but and a big but all it allowed troubs to do was last long enough for our small heal and mana regen to recharge us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Quick description of solo,<BR>Sneak, <BR>Cloaked Back stab,<BR>Stun,<BR>Backstab,<BR>Start mez,<BR>(by the time mez takes we would probably have take 50-80% damage<BR>Mez,<BR>Sit on ground<BR>Wait<BR>Re-mez<BR>Wait<BR>Re-mez<BR>Wait<BR>Re-mez<BR>A good few more until health and mana are back up, And repeat,<BR>(this takes ages)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So while we could do it we could take upward of 20 min, and for most of the time just sit and hope mez would hold and be very very ready for any breaks or resists.</DIV> <DIV>I used to try this on green con heroics from time to time and never managed to get them, they simply resisted too much and would do WAY to much damage and once the fight gets past 20 min it really becomes a strain on the sense of humor (i.e. no longer fun) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also on some heroics it did not help, any damage I did was regenerated at enough of a rate to make the fight last forever or be impossible, but chances would be that one bad resist and there would be one dead troub.</DIV> <DIV>Lately I have been running around with a Warden and while solo mobs are no prob when using this Duo combination any Heroics is not the easiest thing, without pairing up with a good dps class it isn't plain sailing,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These changes will result in:</DIV> <DIV>Charm 8 sec with 60 recast, woopy ok 8 sec delay every minute, well can't say I will be using it for solo or group or anything<BR>Mez 20 with 20 sec recast, well wont even be-able to keep one mob mezed, any resists and you are facing 20 sec worth of bashes before being able to try it again. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These will mean we will pretty well have to just fight the mob until dead (as in one dead troub) with very little to no breaks and in the current state unless they re-consider or do some major rehash on all our other spells to make up,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To be honest and not sure how many troubs will agree, if they wont reconsider the 8 sec charm then just toss it and give us something that will be usefull in a group and solo, and while the mez will only be slightly more usefull than charm toss that as well and give is something alse in whatever direction the charm replacement went. Both of these were among the major reasons for taking Troub over Dirge, and I am not even going to mention what they have that we don't have that got little to no adjustment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>O and while you are at it in regards to saying you have to make changes and only after the changes are in can you see the results and compensate, KEEP THAT ON TEST, that is what tests are for finding issues and correcting them, MAJOR issue should not end up LIVE so often.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sry for the hijack, just a few people need to realize that troubs got it in a big way, last vent: and I 100% agree, what they tried to do goes against everything that the chanters are supposed to be, they are supposed to be the masters of CC and troubs were never anywhere near there level. I feel the nerfs to chanters should be ripped out as it attacks the heart of what they are! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And for troubs rip there nurf out as well as what you are changing is a large part of what they got from there side of a bard family tree (CC's)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wont be buying anything more from SOE until I see them doing soothing to address the hole they have left. /synic Hmm guess I won't be buying anything then.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Highlight of the whole thing is the major changes going to the least played classes!!!!!!!<BR></DIV>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>DwarvesRUs wrote:<BR> <P><BR>And it got made AoE.  And the daze prevents the mob from attacking or using CA's, and doesn't break on damage, so it effectively pulls a group of mobs together allowing for them to be AoE'd more easily by a conj or warlock in your group too.  Or against 1-2 mobs, you still have plenty of time to root and mez them while they are under the daze effect and can't hurt you, even if standing on top of you.</P><hr></blockquote> Too bad Daze is the replacement for Pacify, which prevents them from auto-attacking, and does NOT stifle them, however this is currently bugged on live, which is why they are rewriting the Pacify affect and renaming it to Daze. They can and will use CAs and Spells, unless of course you pacify a mob on live, in which case it is bugged and mobs are too stupid to realize they still can use CAs and Spells. However, that's not how he was using it before, he was using it as a root so that he could do damage from away from the mob.