Wow...look back at this a second guys...

[FreaklyCreak]

<DIV>In regards to LU24. A senseable review and understanding of the changes in LU24.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm taking a look again at the changes and thinking of how they apply to raiding. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think about the implications that having stuners(Lesser timers but still a stun is a stun and a stifle is a stifle, having those on epics rocks, stifle/interupting a AoE is sweet) and mezzers on a raid now will give. Say there are three epic mobs all grouped. A ^^^ named and two buddies that cast AoE or heal the main named epic. Now you can actually either mez the buddies and tell everyone to avoid using any damage on these mobs or do the same with the named. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Intercepts...Amazing addition now to raiding. You can buff groups according to specific damage and have tanks of the non-main tank group intercept on the casters and healers of the MT group or even the MT in order to keep them alive and kicking out damage and heals. Now this may not work in all situations but it will work in many. Think about the implications and uses of how intercept can now be used. (Reactive spells still rock and the tank will take less damage in the cases of intercepting a tank.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could careless about the conjuror dps reduction. I will still have a 3 time stoneskin for my pet, still have the ability to summon shards, still have a group HP and mana regen that keeps dps coming on raids & groups. Even times the sacrifice spell saves the MT if the heals are coming to slow! Necromancers still have many utilities also and I think we will remain great soloers. We(as summoners) just won't have our pets MT in groups as much and prolly overall have a reduction of 10-15% damage done by pets(Over all and just an estimate). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know at first I had mixed feelings. But with taking these things into consideration many new raid tactics can be used and even new group tactics. Soloing(and when i say soloing, i MEAN soloing, that means an yellow or lower con with no more then one up arrow and no heroic sign.) cannot be that bad with the reduction in stun timers. The only heroic I want you to complain about being able to solo is a grey and MAYBE a green if its not named and like 6+ levels below you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With this LU we get easier crafting for everyone(yes everyone, the craftsmen have yet to be on test I have heard, but I qoute moorguard when I say that it will be on test and tested before it goes live, they wont be neglected). This should bring down the cost of rares because they will pop out in high ratios to players who have skill above the zone tier. It may even bring down the cost of crafted items because they will be easier to create. I know for a fact that if all I have to do is have the raws and the fuels then I will be producing many more totems and arrows on my woodworker. I will also craft more items of lower level for guild members to pick out of the guild bank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>New exile city will bring us the ability to change aligment and class, but with penalties. I may not completely agree with the fact that same class transfers of aligment (like good to evil with berzerker) still reset spells to apprentice one but it works to show that if you betray people and change whom you pay your alliances to that you will pay for it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Soloing, small grouping, and small guild side of the access quest changes.</DIV> <DIV>-Faster and easily to get loot.</DIV> <DIV>-Faster to get quests done that require items or named mobs within an instance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The lore and immersion side.</DIV> <DIV>-Suddenly we can get past ancient wards that are extreamly powerful?</DIV> <DIV>-We have keys, amulets, and spells suddenly cast/given to use that allow us to enter places for no reason?</DIV> <DIV>-Boat rides no longer needed. Yes this was taken away a long while ago but now its happening again. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/less review type style</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To the Soloing, small grouping, and small guild side: Whats your rush? From EQ1 we can see that this game is going to be around for a long time and there is no reason to rush it. Do 15 mins of the quest each time you log on till its done. Enjoy the quest and read the lore, they are really great stories. (Ok if you hate stories then your playing the wrong game or goto a game where yo can hack n slash on your own time in a game that doesnt require this kind of time) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/end less review type style</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/Personal Note to devs.</DIV> <DIV>To the devs about access quest changes: Ok if your gonna go through with it then do what you did with the boat ride quests. Make a NPC that hands out the rewards for the people who already did this. Because I'll be damned if I did all the work(And ya I really did do a bunch of work recently to get access quests done so guildes could have me let them into HQ instances to get named updates and stuff) just to have all the people who did nothing just wind up and with instant access and I get jack crap for all my work.</DIV> <DIV>/end Personal Note to devs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The point of this was to get people to realize this is not the end of the world let alone the game.</DIV><p>Message Edited by FreaklyCreak on <span class=date_text>05-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:22 AM</span>

[Stryyfe]

<P>I agree with alot you say.  However the only part that concerns me is your highest level is 57?</P> <P> </P> <P>So when speaking of raid content, I'm just a little confused.</P> <P> </P> <P>I'll judge the change after it's live and kicking for about 2 weeks.</P>

[Cuz]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Edit: And poof there it was gone.</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P><p>Message Edited by Jenoy on <span class=date_text>05-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:54 AM</span>

[Serendia]

You are quite clearly a veteran newbie...<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[FreaklyCreak]

<P>I understand about complaining about things that dont work right. How the tradeskill currently is on live, city raid writs, etc. Things like that are understandable. </P> <P>I'm not saying my motto is golden or something. I'm not saying a vet isnt a vet if he complains.</P> <P>-------Currently the only thing I noticed that affects raids is the lowering of conj and necro dps. The other things didnt even apply to raids before. CC didnt exsist in raids at all before LU24, and intercepts were broken. How can additions to raid tactics be a downside? I'm not speaking from experiance of all highest raid end content. I've done a dozen diffrent contested mobs and raid instances from tier 2 to tier 5. Why try to second guess me unless you can present reseasons to how these things cant help at all. In the least the CC system will add benefits to raids even if just minor. At the least intercepts will provide the protection of casters and healers more often in raids.</P> <P>So that the motto isnt discussed anymore and we focus on other things i will edit and remove it from the post. It wasnt ment to be a topic of discussion.</P>

[Cuz]

Oh I'm the best at being a newb... :smileysad:

[Cuz]

You don't have to, I'll stop talking about it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[J]

<DIV>Motto is flawed.. I agree. Been adjusting with this company for seven years. That doesn't make me the longest paying customer, but I do believe I have been a loyal one. In that time I've held as many as five accounts at one time. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After all that time invested, I find I'm growing more and more attached to the characters I play. I'm tired of adjusting. I'm tired of seeing the nerfs and the changes. I want to see things fixed and expanded, but not totally redone every time they change management philosophy. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No.. I am a veteran that has decided I'm done adjusting. </DIV>

[FreaklyCreak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jenoy wrote:<BR> You don't have to, I'll stop talking about it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I already did, lol. No worries though I don't mind. I'm just trying to keep this thread centered on how that LU can be looked at in a positive light and try to work on letting people notice that SoE never intends to "nerf" a class but to balance power so that everyone can have fun and be useful in raids and in groups, and still have solo playability.

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FreaklyCreak wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jenoy wrote:<BR> You don't have to, I'll stop talking about it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I already did, lol. No worries though I don't mind. I'm just trying to keep this thread centered on how that LU can be looked at in a positive light and try to work on letting people notice that SoE never intends to "nerf" a class but to balance power so that everyone can have fun and be useful in raids and in groups, and still have solo playability.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm not generally opposed to the LU at all. I think a lot of interesting things will come out of it. I actually think it's going to be an interesting time for Troubs. At this point in the LU I find that they are a lacking, so I'm curious as to where the devs are going to go.

[Jooneau]

There are positive changes in LU24. People will love the harvesting changes, for instance. And I believe fixing the stun locking problem should be a priority. However, they have made several other changes to things that don't have anything to do with the stun locking problem that make this Live Update an absolute nightmare.I am surprised to hear that you could care less that they are nerfing the bejeezus out of your Conjurer's ability to do damage. I wonder in general about the mindset of people like you who don't mind being nerfed, especially when they aren't being given anything else as compensation.

[Zombo611]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FreaklyCreak wrote:<BR> <P>I understand about complaining about things that dont work right. How the tradeskill currently is on live, city raid writs, etc. Things like that are understandable. </P> <P>I'm not saying my motto is golden or something. I'm not saying a vet isnt a vet if he complains.</P> <P>-------Currently the only thing I noticed that affects raids is the lowering of conj and necro dps. The other things didnt even apply to raids before. CC didnt exsist in raids at all before LU24, and intercepts were broken. How can additions to raid tactics be a downside? I'm not speaking from experiance of all highest raid end content. I've done a dozen diffrent contested mobs and raid instances from tier 2 to tier 5. Why try to second guess me unless you can present reseasons to how these things cant help at all. In the least the CC system will add benefits to raids even if just minor. At the least intercepts will provide the protection of casters and healers more often in raids.</P> <P>So that the motto isnt discussed anymore and we focus on other things i will edit and remove it from the post. It wasnt ment to be a topic of discussion.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I can not remember when the change took place it was early in the game but in beta and at first I remember that stun, stiffles, mezz could hit epics and they changed it.

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jooneau wrote:<BR>I wonder in general about the mindset of people like you who don't mind being nerfed, especially when they aren't being given anything else as compensation.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I felt I had to respond, coming from 2 classes that were 'nerfed'. First my Guardian was slammed and then my Warlock. However, as long as I can still play the game as I chose to, Im not really worrying about adjustments to my abilities. It just means I have to work a little harder to compensate, maybe try something new. When the time comes that Im no longer able to play as I like, I'll simply move on to another game. Its not like EQII is a lifestyle choice. Its a game and there are thousands of others out there to play. <BR></P> <P>I used to play SWG once upon a time as well. When I no longer enjoyed playing and wasnt logging on, I simply cancelled and went on to the next game. EQII is the same way. At the moment it meets my entertainment requirements, the day it ceases to do so, I'll simply look elesewhere. </P>

[FreaklyCreak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tomanak wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jooneau wrote:<BR>I wonder in general about the mindset of people like you who don't mind being nerfed, especially when they aren't being given anything else as compensation.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I felt I had to respond, coming from 2 classes that were 'nerfed'. First my Guardian was slammed and then my Warlock. However, as long as I can still play the game as I chose to, Im not really worrying about adjustments to my abilities. It just means I have to work a little harder to compensate, maybe try something new. When the time comes that Im no longer able to play as I like, I'll simply move on to another game. Its not like EQII is a lifestyle choice. Its a game and there are thousands of others out there to play. <BR></P> <P>I used to play SWG once upon a time as well. When I no longer enjoyed playing and wasnt logging on, I simply cancelled and went on to the next game. EQII is the same way. At the moment it meets my entertainment requirements, the day it ceases to do so, I'll simply look elesewhere. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><3 my kind of player. hehe

[Jooneau]

These changes aren't live yet so while they're not live, I'm going to complain about them here in the "In Testing Feedback" forum in the hopes they'll come to their senses and come up with better solutions to whatever problems they're trying to solve.But yeah, I agree with your general suggestion about quitting and doing something else if EQ2's no longer my cup of tea. I've already quit EQ for similar reasons, like you quit SWG, and I've started playing World of Warcraft these days instead of EQ2.I actually quit EQ2 a month after it was released, because the game was just silly stupid all sorts of broken back then. I came back a year later on a whim and have enjoyed playing it the past few months, but now they're getting ready to break the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] game all over again. I'm more than willing to say goodbye again.

[DobyMT]

<div><blockquote><hr>FreaklyCreak wrote: <div>In regards to LU24. A senseable review and understanding of the changes in LU24.</div> <div> </div> <div>I'm taking a look again at the changes and thinking of how they apply to raiding. </div> <div> </div> <div>Think about the implications that having stuners(Lesser timers but still a stun is a stun and a stifle is a stifle, having those on epics rocks, stifle/interupting a AoE is sweet) and mezzers on a raid now will give. Say there are three epic mobs all grouped. A ^^^ named and two buddies that cast AoE or heal the main named epic. Now you can actually either mez the buddies and tell everyone to avoid using any damage on these mobs or do the same with the named. </div> <div> </div> <div>Intercepts...Amazing addition now to raiding. You can buff groups according to specific damage and have tanks of the non-main tank group intercept on the casters and healers of the MT group or even the MT in order to keep them alive and kicking out damage and heals. Now this may not work in all situations but it will work in many. Think about the implications and uses of how intercept can now be used. (Reactive spells still rock and the tank will take less damage in the cases of intercepting a tank.)</div> <div> </div> <div>I could careless about the conjuror dps reduction. I will still have a 3 time stoneskin for my pet, still have the ability to summon shards, still have a group HP and mana regen that keeps dps coming on raids & groups. Even times the sacrifice spell saves the MT if the heals are coming to slow! Necromancers still have many utilities also and I think we will remain great soloers. We(as summoners) just won't have our pets MT in groups as much and prolly overall have a reduction of 10-15% damage done by pets(Over all and just an estimate). </div> <div> </div> <div>You know at first I had mixed feelings. But with taking these things into consideration many new raid tactics can be used and even new group tactics. Soloing(and when i say soloing, i MEAN soloing, that means an yellow or lower con with no more then one up arrow and no heroic sign.) cannot be that bad with the reduction in stun timers. The only heroic I want you to complain about being able to solo is a grey and MAYBE a green if its not named and like 6+ levels below you.</div> <div> </div> <div>With this LU we get easier crafting for everyone(yes everyone, the craftsmen have yet to be on test I have heard, but I qoute moorguard when I say that it will be on test and tested before it goes live, they wont be neglected). This should bring down the cost of rares because they will pop out in high ratios to players who have skill above the zone tier. It may even bring down the cost of crafted items because they will be easier to create. I know for a fact that if all I have to do is have the raws and the fuels then I will be producing many more totems and arrows on my woodworker. I will also craft more items of lower level for guild members to pick out of the guild bank.</div> <div> </div> <div>New exile city will bring us the ability to change aligment and class, but with penalties. I may not completely agree with the fact that same class transfers of aligment (like good to evil with berzerker) still reset spells to apprentice one but it works to show that if you betray people and change whom you pay your alliances to that you will pay for it. </div> <div> </div> <div>Soloing, small grouping, and small guild side of the access quest changes.</div> <div>-Faster and easily to get loot.</div> <div>-Faster to get quests done that require items or named mobs within an instance.</div> <div> </div> <div>The lore and immersion side.</div> <div>-Suddenly we can get past ancient wards that are extreamly powerful?</div> <div>-We have keys, amulets, and spells suddenly cast/given to use that allow us to enter places for no reason?</div> <div>-Boat rides no longer needed. Yes this was taken away a long while ago but now its happening again. </div> <div> </div> <div>/less review type style</div> <div> </div> <div>To the Soloing, small grouping, and small guild side: Whats your rush? From EQ1 we can see that this game is going to be around for a long time and there is no reason to rush it. Do 15 mins of the quest each time you log on till its done. Enjoy the quest and read the lore, they are really great stories. (Ok if you hate stories then your playing the wrong game or goto a game where yo can hack n slash on your own time in a game that doesnt require this kind of time) </div> <div> </div> <div>/end less review type style</div> <div> </div> <div>/Personal Note to devs.</div> <div>To the devs about access quest changes: Ok if your gonna go through with it then do what you did with the boat ride quests. Make a NPC that hands out the rewards for the people who already did this. Because I'll be damned if I did all the work(And ya I really did do a bunch of work recently to get access quests done so guildes could have me let them into HQ instances to get named updates and stuff) just to have all the people who did nothing just wind up and with instant access and I get jack crap for all my work.</div> <div>/end Personal Note to devs.</div> <div> </div> <div>The point of this was to get people to realize this is not the end of the world let alone the game.</div><p>Message Edited by FreaklyCreak on <span class="date_text">05-19-2006</span> <span class="time_text">08:22 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><u>I could careless about the conjuror dps reduction. I will still have a 3 time stoneskin for my pet, still have the ability to summon shards, still have a group HP and mana regen that keeps dps coming on raids & groups. Even times the sacrifice spell saves the MT if the heals are coming to slow! Necromancers still have many utilities also and I think we will remain great soloers. We(as summoners) just won't have our pets MT in groups as much and prolly overall have a reduction of 10-15% damage done by pets(Over all and just an estimate).</u> Start with this one.  Yes, you have a stoneskin, but I don't see how you apply that to the raid functionality of a conjuror.  You are 57.  Once you are raiding T7 content, a 3 hit ward on your pet doesn't do much except eat an AE because it only lasts a short duration.  Also, what raids are you on that your 2 minute sacrifice is feeding the MT?  and how does killing your pet, then spending 22+ seconds recasting and rebuffing him keep the dps coming?  Our pets SHOULD NEVER have been MTing groups, unless they are duo groups, or just messing around.  Regardless, this doesn't say anything about raid functionality being added in LU24. <u> Think about the implications that having stuners(Lesser timers but still a stun is a stun and a stifle is a stifle, having those on epics rocks, stifle/interupting a AoE is sweet) and mezzers on a raid now will give. Say there are three epic mobs all grouped. A ^^^ named and two buddies that cast AoE or heal the main named epic. Now you can actually either mez the buddies and tell everyone to avoid using any damage on these mobs or do the same with the name</u>d. This I agree with.  The ability to stun and mezz on raids is fun, however, destroying every other class in order to get enchanters happy is bogus.  There are other purposes for enchanters on raids, and they always had slots on our raids, this just gives them some more functionality. NOW, to discuss bards, which are SUPPOSED to be hybrid enchanters, they are getting destroyed this update.  They are losing several of what few skills that they had that made them unique and useful.  See, the enchanters getting more use is nice, but the sacrifice of the other classes is going to ruin this. <div><u>/Personal Note to devs.</u></div> <div><u>To the devs about access quest changes: Ok if your gonna go through with it then do what you did with the boat ride quests. Make a NPC that hands out the rewards for the people who already did this. Because I'll be damned if I did all the work(And ya I really did do a bunch of work recently to get access quests done so guildes could have me let them into HQ instances to get named updates and stuff) just to have all the people who did nothing just wind up and with instant access and I get jack crap for all my work.</u></div> <div><u>/end Personal Note to devs.</u></div> Gotta love this.  So, because this actually affects you directly, you want a personal note to the devs.  This part of LU 24 completely screws over YOUR hard work, and now you want some sort of compensation.  HAH. I appreciate your candor in all of this, but lets be serious.  There are a TON of players that have worked incredibly hard in this game, and are not level 57 at the top of their characters.  Some people really feel as though their hard work on their toons is being ignored as well.  So lets be fair to the community, and not try to negate people's rational arguments.</div><div></div>

[missionarymarr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jooneau wrote:<BR>There are positive changes in LU24. People will love the harvesting changes, for instance. And I believe fixing the stun locking problem should be a priority. However, they have made several other changes to things that don't have anything to do with the stun locking problem that make this Live Update an absolute nightmare.<BR><BR>I am surprised to hear that you could care less that they are nerfing the bejeezus out of your Conjurer's ability to do damage. I wonder in general about the mindset of people like you who don't mind being nerfed, especially when they aren't being given anything else as compensation.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Maybe you shouldn't be surprised maybe he feels that they are getting Nerfed because they were doing to much damage. Just like Rangers were nerfed. In that case why should they get compensated. I think at times when classes get nerfed to many people respond with what do we get in return. Sometimes nerfs are necessary to bring the class back to where they are supposed to be and nothing to needs to be added to them.

[FreaklyCreak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DobyMT wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FreaklyCreak wrote:<BR> <DIV>In regards to LU24. A senseable review and understanding of the changes in LU24.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm taking a look again at the changes and thinking of how they apply to raiding. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think about the implications that having stuners(Lesser timers but still a stun is a stun and a stifle is a stifle, having those on epics rocks, stifle/interupting a AoE is sweet) and mezzers on a raid now will give. Say there are three epic mobs all grouped. A ^^^ named and two buddies that cast AoE or heal the main named epic. Now you can actually either mez the buddies and tell everyone to avoid using any damage on these mobs or do the same with the named. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Intercepts...Amazing addition now to raiding. You can buff groups according to specific damage and have tanks of the non-main tank group intercept on the casters and healers of the MT group or even the MT in order to keep them alive and kicking out damage and heals. Now this may not work in all situations but it will work in many. Think about the implications and uses of how intercept can now be used. (Reactive spells still rock and the tank will take less damage in the cases of intercepting a tank.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could careless about the conjuror dps reduction. I will still have a 3 time stoneskin for my pet, still have the ability to summon shards, still have a group HP and mana regen that keeps dps coming on raids & groups. Even times the sacrifice spell saves the MT if the heals are coming to slow! Necromancers still have many utilities also and I think we will remain great soloers. We(as summoners) just won't have our pets MT in groups as much and prolly overall have a reduction of 10-15% damage done by pets(Over all and just an estimate). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know at first I had mixed feelings. But with taking these things into consideration many new raid tactics can be used and even new group tactics. Soloing(and when i say soloing, i MEAN soloing, that means an yellow or lower con with no more then one up arrow and no heroic sign.) cannot be that bad with the reduction in stun timers. The only heroic I want you to complain about being able to solo is a grey and MAYBE a green if its not named and like 6+ levels below you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With this LU we get easier crafting for everyone(yes everyone, the craftsmen have yet to be on test I have heard, but I qoute moorguard when I say that it will be on test and tested before it goes live, they wont be neglected). This should bring down the cost of rares because they will pop out in high ratios to players who have skill above the zone tier. It may even bring down the cost of crafted items because they will be easier to create. I know for a fact that if all I have to do is have the raws and the fuels then I will be producing many more totems and arrows on my woodworker. I will also craft more items of lower level for guild members to pick out of the guild bank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>New exile city will bring us the ability to change aligment and class, but with penalties. I may not completely agree with the fact that same class transfers of aligment (like good to evil with berzerker) still reset spells to apprentice one but it works to show that if you betray people and change whom you pay your alliances to that you will pay for it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Soloing, small grouping, and small guild side of the access quest changes.</DIV> <DIV>-Faster and easily to get loot.</DIV> <DIV>-Faster to get quests done that require items or named mobs within an instance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The lore and immersion side.</DIV> <DIV>-Suddenly we can get past ancient wards that are extreamly powerful?</DIV> <DIV>-We have keys, amulets, and spells suddenly cast/given to use that allow us to enter places for no reason?</DIV> <DIV>-Boat rides no longer needed. Yes this was taken away a long while ago but now its happening again. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/less review type style</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To the Soloing, small grouping, and small guild side: Whats your rush? From EQ1 we can see that this game is going to be around for a long time and there is no reason to rush it. Do 15 mins of the quest each time you log on till its done. Enjoy the quest and read the lore, they are really great stories. (Ok if you hate stories then your playing the wrong game or goto a game where yo can hack n slash on your own time in a game that doesnt require this kind of time) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/end less review type style</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/Personal Note to devs.</DIV> <DIV>To the devs about access quest changes: Ok if your gonna go through with it then do what you did with the boat ride quests. Make a NPC that hands out the rewards for the people who already did this. Because I'll be damned if I did all the work(And ya I really did do a bunch of work recently to get access quests done so guildes could have me let them into HQ instances to get named updates and stuff) just to have all the people who did nothing just wind up and with instant access and I get jack crap for all my work.</DIV> <DIV>/end Personal Note to devs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The point of this was to get people to realize this is not the end of the world let alone the game.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by FreaklyCreak on <SPAN class=date_text>05-19-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:22 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><U>I could careless about the conjuror dps reduction. I will still have a 3 time stoneskin for my pet, still have the ability to summon shards, still have a group HP and mana regen that keeps dps coming on raids & groups. Even times the sacrifice spell saves the MT if the heals are coming to slow! Necromancers still have many utilities also and I think we will remain great soloers. We(as summoners) just won't have our pets MT in groups as much and prolly overall have a reduction of 10-15% damage done by pets(Over all and just an estimate).</U><BR><BR>Start with this one.  Yes, you have a stoneskin, but I don't see how you apply that to the raid functionality of a conjuror.  You are 57.  Once you are raiding T7 content, a 3 hit ward on your pet doesn't do much except eat an AE because it only lasts a short duration.  Also, what raids are you on that your 2 minute sacrifice is feeding the MT?  and how does killing your pet, then spending 22+ seconds recasting and rebuffing him keep the dps coming?  Our pets SHOULD NEVER have been MTing groups, unless they are duo groups, or just messing around.  Regardless, this doesn't say anything about raid functionality being added in LU24.<BR><U><BR><BR>Think about the implications that having stuners(Lesser timers but still a stun is a stun and a stifle is a stifle, having those on epics rocks, stifle/interupting a AoE is sweet) and mezzers on a raid now will give. Say there are three epic mobs all grouped. A ^^^ named and two buddies that cast AoE or heal the main named epic. Now you can actually either mez the buddies and tell everyone to avoid using any damage on these mobs or do the same with the name</U>d.<BR><BR>This I agree with.  The ability to stun and mezz on raids is fun, however, destroying every other class in order to get enchanters happy is bogus.  There are other purposes for enchanters on raids, and they always had slots on our raids, this just gives them some more functionality.<BR>NOW, to discuss bards, which are SUPPOSED to be hybrid enchanters, they are getting destroyed this update.  They are losing several of what few skills that they had that made them unique and useful.  See, the enchanters getting more use is nice, but the sacrifice of the other classes is going to ruin this.<BR><BR> <DIV><U>/Personal Note to devs.</U></DIV> <DIV><U>To the devs about access quest changes: Ok if your gonna go through with it then do what you did with the boat ride quests. Make a NPC that hands out the rewards for the people who already did this. Because I'll be damned if I did all the work(And ya I really did do a bunch of work recently to get access quests done so guildes could have me let them into HQ instances to get named updates and stuff) just to have all the people who did nothing just wind up and with instant access and I get jack crap for all my work.</U></DIV> <DIV><U>/end Personal Note to devs.</U></DIV><BR>Gotta love this.  So, because this actually affects you directly, you want a personal note to the devs.  This part of LU 24 completely screws over YOUR hard work, and now you want some sort of compensation.  HAH. I appreciate your candor in all of this, but lets be serious.  There are a TON of players that have worked incredibly hard in this game, and are not level 57 at the top of their characters.  Some people really feel as though their hard work on their toons is being ignored as well.  So lets be fair to the community, and not try to negate people's rational arguments.<BR></DIV> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Stone Skin that lasted three hits enables us to solo or duo heroics easily in many cases as it supplies us with extra time. Although last night on a guild practice raid(Yeah we arent high end yet and dont plan on being that way) my pet caught aggro(my own fault) and i was able to save it from having to recast(Pet summon, all its buffs(Alot more now with AA)) by quickly casting the stoneskin spell and telling it to stop attacking let the MT get aggro again. No I wasn't and usually I'm not in MT group on a RAID. Yet I also mentioned grouping, in which case yes my sacrifice saves the group and regens it in cases where we chain pull. (Did a huge grind session this past exp weekend and got to 60 using chain pulls and sacrificed pet every 8 or so mins to keep us going. (Hate that AE from the savage wyrms...)). </P> <P>Bard mezzing nerf is bad. On the group note for all other classes though,  being able to completely make a mob not do anything because you can keep it stuned is insane and shouldnt exsist in game. </P> <P>Why shouldn't I personally note that I don't like the access quest nerfage? I have done so several times on several posts and wanted to note it again.</P> <P>If im wrong im wrong, so sue me. </P>

[DobyMT]

What I'm saying is that several people have posted about how this is destroying conjurors and necros. You as being both, post that its not that bad, basically negating everyone's arguments that it is, because YOU noticed it wasn't that bad. I'm not ttrying to flame, its just that you spent a whole post asking for other people to accept whats coming, but then you didn't want to let one part of tha path happen cause you worked really hard on acess quests. Its hypocritical.

[Lydiae]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FreaklyCreak wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Think about the implications that having stuners(Lesser timers but still a stun is a stun and a stifle is a stifle, having those on epics rocks, stifle/interupting a AoE is sweet) and mezzers on a raid now will give. Say there are three epic mobs all grouped. A ^^^ named and two buddies that cast AoE or heal the main named epic. Now you can actually either mez the buddies and tell everyone to avoid using any damage on these mobs or do the same with the named. <BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>So.... Multiple Enchanters can lock down a MoB in a raid...   But anyone soloing does not have that option.  When grouping, unless you can have three people in your group devoted to CC you're incapable as well.  Are you sure?  Seems unfair, and it seems like it will trivialize raids.</P> <P>Come to think of it, I can see raids forming Stun Chains like they used to form Complete Heal chains in EQ1 and do what the devs never intended.  Then they either build the rest of the game around the Stun Chain or they nerf enchanters.   I'm just saying.</P>

[Aienaa]

<FONT color=#ffff00>So.... Multiple Enchanters can lock down a MoB in a raid...   But anyone soloing does not have that option.  When grouping, unless you can have three people in your group devoted to CC you're incapable as well.  Are you sure?  Seems unfair, and it seems like it will trivialize raids.</FONT> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Come to think of it, I can see raids forming Stun Chains like they used to form Complete Heal chains in EQ1 and do what the devs never intended.  Then they either build the rest of the game around the Stun Chain or they nerf enchanters.   I'm just saying.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>You seem to be misinformed....  Enchanter Epic mez is limited, and once a mob has been mezed it is immune to all oter mez spells for a long while....  It will be impossible to keep a mob mezed....  The only 2 classes that can stun an epic mob are Enchanters (after LU24)....  Again, due to imunities after having been stunned, it will be impossible to stun lock an epic mob...  The other 22 classes that have stuns, dazes, stifles and whatnot, can NOT effect epic mobs....  ONLY Enchanter will be able to do this and as I said before it is very limited and comes with imunities following....  Because of this, there will never be Stun Chains as you describe, because the mobs will be immune...</P> <P>What they are doing is nerfing the ability to stun, stifle, mez, daze and whatnot in groups and solo, and giving Enchanters few weak Epic abilities....  Do not however blame the Enchanters for this, because this is NOT what they wanted....</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 70 Assassin</P>

[Purita]

I hate SoE for the nerf, they should make mobs harder and quit beating classes to death.  I AM SO [Removed for Content] OFF

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Puritain wrote:<BR> I hate SoE for the nerf, they should make mobs harder and quit beating classes to death.  I AM SO [Removed for Content] OFF<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I think that's a terrible idea. I'd rather get my class nerfed then have mobs with cheap abilitties to simulate difficulty.

[Lydiae]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aienaa wrote:<BR> <P>You seem to be misinformed....  </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ah, well, I was misinformed by the OP.</P> <P>I don't blame enchanters or anyone else.  The Devs think it's neccessry and we'll see how it works out.  Or not.</P> <P>I could complain that Templar's utility is supposed to be second tier CC, so where do you think this puts us... but that ship has sailed.<BR></P>

[Aienaa]

<P>You know...  I thought the reason that they gave one of the Bard classes (Troubadour) the ability to mez was so that we would not end up with the same problem as in EQ1 where a group revolved around 3 classes (tank, cleric, enchanter)...  Having the 3rd option available gave more flexability in forming groups....</P> <P>Apparently they have changed thier vision and no longer want people to have that 3rd option, nor the added flexability in thier groups as they have totally destroyed the Troubadours ability to mez and charm....  Which BTW, never worked on Epics anyways, so was just an additional option for group play....</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 70 Assassin</P>

[Oakum]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aienaa wrote:<BR> <P>You know...  I thought the reason that they gave one of the Bard classes (Troubadour) the ability to mez was so that we would not end up with the same problem as in EQ1 where a group revolved around 3 classes (tank, cleric, enchanter)...  Having the 3rd option available gave more flexability in forming groups....</P> <P>Apparently they have changed thier vision and no longer want people to have that 3rd option, nor the added flexability in thier groups as they have totally destroyed the Troubadours ability to mez and charm....  Which BTW, never worked on Epics anyways, so was just an additional option for group play....</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 70 Assassin</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>As I remember EQ1 the required classes were the tank and cleric. After that the preferred additions were chanters for mez/kei and bards/shaman for slow. I only played a year and a half so maybe my memory is wrong.

[DobyMT]

<blockquote><hr>Oakum wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Aienaa wrote:<BR><P>You know...  I thought the reason that they gave one of the Bard classes (Troubadour) the ability to mez was so that we would not end up with the same problem as in EQ1 where a group revolved around 3 classes (tank, cleric, enchanter)...  Having the 3rd option available gave more flexability in forming groups....</P><P>Apparently they have changed thier vision and no longer want people to have that 3rd option, nor the added flexability in thier groups as they have totally destroyed the Troubadours ability to mez and charm....  Which BTW, never worked on Epics anyways, so was just an additional option for group play....</P><P> </P><P> </P><P>Gwern - 70 Assassin</P><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>As I remember EQ1 the required classes were the tank and cleric. After that the preferred additions were chanters for mez/kei and bards/shaman for slow. I only played a year and a half so maybe my memory is wrong.<hr></blockquote>You are close, but by the time PoP came out, it was pally/sk, cleric, chanter(who could mana regen, haste, slow, buff other attributes, anc charm) there was no need really for other classes.