You nerf 98% of troubs core abilties fine, but how bout defining what role we play now

[Trie]

<div></div>   Greetings. I am a 70 troub and really displeased with LU24 bard changes, and really still unsure why take one of the least played classes, remove key abilities that define our class, change the way we are suppose to gameplay, but in the process not define what our new roles are suppose to be? We had already lost our dps and arent scout suppose to have at least decent dps? Well fine but now you take away THE UTILITY, out of a UTILITY class. What are troubs suppose to be now?   What i am saying if your vision of bards are solely support group members, how bout adding some actual support abilities that are useful for the love of pete. Already our buffs are not very good compared to other profession buffs that play other roles. Also we are nothing more than batteries for casters, and yes i played eq1 i knew the role there, but here in eq2 i feel we are completly useless now.    An example of this, take health regen quirons, its never used, yet zerkers have a same ability, are they suppose "support" in a grp? No they can mad DPS , or tank. Our str/sta buff, nice but not impressive compared to other str buffs i get in groups. Plus mine is master and added with AA line, i feel sorry for bards who have adept versions or less. Laughable. Selos is nice, but not super good like eq1, 34% speed. Most ppl have carpets. Haste song, mere 19% lv 70 adept one, boost it up to master still not so hot. Requiem our magic wall spell, ahah lolz, hasnt been updated since DoF and the chance of proc is so low i never use it. Plus doenst work on epics. In fact nothing we have works on epics [Removed for Content] not????? Already charm and mez didnt, these were useful grouping tools tho, and also for soloing players. Avoidance buff, meh not really useful most tanks already have good avoidance our little addition doesnt save the day. Finally our swan song, maybe the one useful buff, and also arias but its being nerfed so bye bye to it too.   So here we stand, horrible dps, buffs are sub par FOR A SUPPORT CLASS, and most not all that useful. We have mana regen whoopy do so saddle me with your caster group.    Why not take a day and refigure our buffs stat spells, gives us more actual buffing to work with, maybe let us buff more than str/sta. Increase all our addition songs, haste, attack abilities, avoidance, even mana by like 25% or so. Upgrade our requiem make it useful again. Give us like10% more dps shoot most ppl still invite us thinking we can dps good anyway. Crap i dunno do something that doesnt make a buttload of ppl quit, cause wont be any troubs left. Im not quitting but very unhappy customer about this. I dont even ever post on here.

[SureShot]

<P>I agree completely.  This is the <EM>second</EM> time since I started Sakbut, <EM>at release in November '04</EM> that the class I picked has been put into a blender, mixed up, and spit back out at a horrid malformation of its former self. </P> <P>I can understand nerfs.  They happen in these games.  But with these nerfs, we have had no tweaks to make up for them.  I agree that we really are being nerfed into oblivion.  I'm not sure how much more I can take.  There is really no fun in playing anymore.  I only log in to help my guild during raids (put my buffs up, tab out, and browse the internet).</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Nevari]

Well said. From one of the best if not the best buff/support classes to... I just dunno really. Two complete class redefines. Gimped, nerfed and since the game went live how many dev responses on the class boards?Really just get rid of the subclass finally. <span>:smileywink:</span><div></div>

[khufure]

I was thinking of starting a troubador for my guild.  I recently purchased a very nice laptop that would make dual boxing feasible.  My original plan was to create a new account, then create 2 characters w/ one of them being a troubador.  However, without the utility I just don't see the point.  All these posts from the existing high-level characters have discouraged me.  It sounds like I'd play one character and have the other one on auto follow.  Where's the fun in that?<div></div>

[Krokous]

maybe better try to understand that utility class as dirge or troub CANT do such damage as assasin who is purely designed to do damage and has no good party/raid buffs... if you play to be damager play assas, if you want to be useful play dirge and dont complain yesterday i played with lvl68 dirge in den of devourer and with dirge the game IS FUN... power regen, stoneskin, dmage buff haste just cool and i did not noticed that dirge cant do nice damage... IT CAN

[VericSauvari]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Krokous wrote:maybe better try to understand that utility class as dirge or troub CANT do such damage as assasin who is purely designed to do damage and has no good party/raid buffs... if you play to be damager play assas, if you want to be useful play dirge and dont complain yesterday i played with lvl68 dirge in den of devourer and with dirge the game IS FUN... power regen, stoneskin, dmage buff haste just cool and i did not noticed that dirge cant do nice damage... IT CAN<hr></blockquote>Are you saying we don't know what we are supposed to do? In some ways you are right because we are getting the CORE ABILITIES OF OUR CLASS STRIPPED FROM US. However i would hope that all of the troubadors that post know their class and what they are supposed to do. We are not saying we want insane DPS. So far twice they have put troubadors through a blender and then [Removed for Content] into the jar..handed it back to us and told to enjoy it. A lot of us went down a whole dps tier with the proc nerf. We do not expect to do tier1-2 level dps however we expect to out dps at least the healers and a guardian or two. Troubadors in LU22 caster buffers + CC.   We have had our main caster proc nerfed in LU23 and our CC is being stripped away into uselessness. We do not want to be a passive buffbot who is just there for hate absorb and mana regen. <div></div><p>Message Edited by VericSauvari on <span class=date_text>05-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:04 PM</span>

[Lordviperscorpian]

<div><blockquote><hr>Krokous wrote:maybe better try to understand that utility class as dirge or troub CANT do such damage as assasin who is purely designed to do damage and has no good party/raid buffs... if you play to be damager play assas, if you want to be useful play dirge and dont complain yesterday i played with lvl68 dirge in den of devourer and with dirge the game IS FUN... power regen, stoneskin, dmage buff haste just cool and i did not noticed that dirge cant do nice damage... IT CAN<hr></blockquote>Wow such ignorance.  You obviously dont play a bard.  Its been stated that we dont want as much DPS as other scouts genious.  We want to be placed on the DPS teir we belong in...which is right below the scouts.  We cant even beat priests that try to out dps us.  Its rediculous.  As for the buffs being great? Yep. Except for the ones that shouldnt cost concentration or the ones that state they proc a certain % but obviously dont.  Then theres the fact we dont have instruments...and /gasp...were bards?  I think not.What about poisons? Jack of all trades masters of none? Doesnt seem to fit there does it.  Currently bards are useful for 1 thing.  Put on random set of buffs, /follow, /afk.  Great.  If thats what SoE wants for the class then jsut say it. Then we can reroll and move on, but until then we want answers as to why we continually have our spells nerfed when THEY ARNT EVEN THE BEST.  JACK OF ALL TRADES, MASTER OF NONE. If were not masters at it...we obviously dont need it nerfed into oblivion or it becomes really pointless now doesnt it.  </div>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> VericSauvari wrote:<BR> Troubadors in LU22 caster buffers + CC.   We have had our main caster proc nerfed in LU23 and our CC is being stripped away into uselessness. We do not want to be a passive buffbot who is just there for hate absorb and mana regen. <BR><BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by VericSauvari on <SPAN class=date_text>05-19-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:04 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It wasnt acually nerfed, it was adjusted, or fixed to fall in line with the same thing they did for LU18 with melee procs.</P> <P>You guys still are the best classes to put with High damage characters, Assassins / Wizards / Warlocks etc etc.</P> <P>I think what you guys are missing is, you arent having any your core abilities taken away from this, there being laid out for you so you have a better understanding of what SoE want your class to be.</P> <P>While i dont agree with everything there doing, and i think its the wrong way about it, you can sort of see the reason for some of the changes, but most of them i have no clue why, which is why at this point in time i have canceled all 3 of my accounts, just tired of seeing this game get changed every month, and we arent talking about small bug fixes here, we are talking about major mechanical changes.<BR></P>

[MadLordOfMilk]

Just one comment...<blockquote><hr>Trieze wrote:<div></div>and really still unsure why take one of the least played classes<hr></blockquote>The "least-played class" argument has NO meaning to class ability. I remember back in the day (pre-LU13) when Monks were, honestly, overpowered, yet everyone thought they sucked and you rarely saw 'em.... (*cough*) I even remember talking on Teamspeak and a guildmate said "Monks suck, dude" to which I replied "Doesn't matter to me - I just enjoy the class"... then a month or two later I kept hearing about Monks doing high DPS on raids and such from said people. Anyway, long story short:<font size="7">FEW PLAYERS != BAD CLASS</font><div></div>

[Zeral498]

<div><blockquote><hr>-Aonein- wrote:<div></div><p>I think what you guys are missing is, you arent having any your core abilities taken away from this, there being laid out for you so you have a better understanding of what SoE want your class to be.</p><hr></blockquote>So you're basically saying SoE wants our class to be /afk /follow buff-bots with the occasional Jester's Cap and PoM. Fantastic.</div>

[VericSauvari]

<blockquote><hr>-Aonein- wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> VericSauvari wrote: <div></div>Troubadors in LU22 caster buffers + CC.   We have had our main caster proc nerfed in LU23 and our CC is being stripped away into uselessness. We do not want to be a passive buffbot who is just there for hate absorb and mana regen. <div></div> <p>Message Edited by VericSauvari on <span class="date_text">05-19-2006</span> <span class="time_text">04:04 PM</span> </p><hr> </blockquote> <p>It wasnt acually nerfed, it was adjusted, or fixed to fall in line with the same thing they did for LU18 with melee procs.</p> <p>You guys still are the best classes to put with High damage characters, Assassins / Wizards / Warlocks etc etc.</p> <p><font color="#ff0000">if you are refering to flower power (our hate reduction) yes i agree 100%  However given the new rate that Aria's (our proc) goes off its not as worthwhile anymore.</font> </p> <p>I think what you guys are missing is, you arent having any your core abilities taken away from this, there being laid out for you so you have a better understanding of what SoE want your class to be.</p> <p><font color="#ff0000">Excuse me? Frankly we are getting everything chipped away. We have had one our 'core abiltiy' of our hate reduction lowered by 10% to 40%, we have had a 'core ability' of our proc reduced to where it goes off a fraction of the time. We (troubadors) are having a 'core ability' of CC (mez AND charm)  nerfed into a fraction of what it was.  We have had our ONLY stun nerfed by 4 seconds. </font></p> <p><font color="#ff0000">That leaves group mana regen  that has been untouched (which i believe also cap'd a while back) </font></p> <font color="#ff0000">Our haste buff (not dps..melee haste..for a CASTER BUFFER.. ) is a marginal MARGINAL upgrade from the lvl42 m2 to the t7 one..i believe its a difference of 4% You know what SOE wants our class to be? A half [Removed for Content] chanter and chanters have it hard enough </font><hr></blockquote> <div></div>

[Calman]

<P>Agree 100% with OP. Very sad SOE. </P> <P>Character retired to tradeskilling. No way am I gonna be just a buff/mana regen machine. </P>

[MystaSkrat]

I do agree with you that it seems SoE has no idea what they want a troubador to be... but, I have to say that we don't go anywhere without a troubador.  It's the biggest difference in the world having or not having their deagro song... it might be a passive buff, but it's the most important thing to me in a raid.

[Stal]

I agree troubadours are very useful in raids for hate reduction and mana song.  Even the recently-nerfed aria can be useful when grouped with wizzies/warlocks with their long cast spells.I personally don't mind too much if troubadours can't solo - it's been a buzz to be able to solo well for writs but I didn't expect to be able to solo.  The role I saw for troubs when I started (at EQ2 start) was to be powerful in enhancing a group's ability, not uber in myself. The issue is group role - and for me groups are the heart of what I do in MMORPGs.  After LU24 I'm not confident that my power in enhancing a group will make up for my low personal dps.  I don't buff melee dps very well as of LU13 (instead of troub buff/dirge debuff the split became troub caster buff/dirge melee buff).  I don't buff caster dps so well as of LU23 (Aria nerf).  And LU24 will take away most of my crowd control (only 1 mez up at a time, charm down to 8 seconds). To the people who say 'you should have picked another class' I say 'I picked troubadour based on the information I had at the time and the class has been changed unduly'.  The troub was supposed to inspire their allies in battle.  The troub was supposed to be able to confuse their enemies' minds.Can I have my class back now please?Stal70 troubadourSplitpaw<div></div>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stal wrote:<BR><STRONG>The troub was supposed to be able to confuse their enemies' minds.</STRONG><BR><BR>Can I have my class back now please?<BR><BR>Stal<BR>70 troubadour<BR>Splitpaw<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>We will astonish them with our presence now??<BR>

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stal wrote:<BR>I agree troubadours are very useful in raids for hate reduction and mana song.  Even the recently-nerfed aria can be useful when grouped with wizzies/warlocks with their long cast spells.<BR><BR>I personally don't mind too much if troubadours can't solo - it's been a buzz to be able to solo well for writs but I didn't expect to be able to solo.  The role I saw for troubs when I started (at EQ2 start) was to be powerful in enhancing a group's ability, not uber in myself. <BR><BR>The issue is group role - and for me groups are the heart of what I do in MMORPGs.  After LU24 I'm not confident that my power in enhancing a group will make up for my low personal dps.  I don't buff melee dps very well as of LU13 (instead of troub buff/dirge debuff the split became troub caster buff/dirge melee buff).  I don't buff caster dps so well as of LU23 (Aria nerf).  And LU24 will take away most of my crowd control (only 1 mez up at a time, charm down to 8 seconds). <BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>To the people who say 'you should have picked another class'</FONT> I say 'I picked troubadour based on the information I had at the time and the class has been changed unduly'.  The troub was supposed to inspire their allies in battle.  The troub was supposed to be able to confuse their enemies' minds.<BR><BR>Can I have my class back now please?<BR><BR>Stal<BR>70 troubadour<BR>Splitpaw<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I would actually argue that you did pick another class back then.

[Reptilianb]

<DIV>i made a bard to be a bard, with mez and charm.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can't delete the class.... or i want my money back for my 4 accounts since we've had them, and there subscriptions.</DIV>

[RoXx]

<P>Well said OP!!</P> <P>Please give us a role again!</P>

[Mercuratrayin]

Id like to be able to have more Concentration slots. We have some ok buffs, but their usefulness comes 3rd or 4th to other of our required spells and hence they never see use. Bard really need ALOT more concentration slots but Id be happy for 1 more as a master bonus in an aa Line. I havent been very happy with the bard AA line choices either, not the same level of satisfaction as my Crusader.. <div></div>

[Lordviperscorpian]

<div><blockquote><hr>Mercuratrayin wrote:Id like to be able to have more Concentration slots. We have some ok buffs, but their usefulness comes 3rd or 4th to other of our required spells and hence they never see use. Bard really need ALOT more concentration slots but Id be happy for 1 more as a master bonus in an aa Line. I havent been very happy with the bard AA line choices either, not the same level of satisfaction as my Crusader.. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Been saying that forever.  Who cares about making my HO button 100% faster.  Give me a concnetration slot instead.  I also think that the self buff, and proc buffs need their concentration points removed.  That would make the dirge tomb line worth it then.  As for the self buff...bards are the only class that do not have a self buff that doesnt cost a concentration point.  Whats up with this!?</div>

[Etillchou]

- Troubador: Singing Shot: Increased damage.- Troubador: Eli's Thunderous Hymn: Lowered reuse time to 5 seconds and increased damage.- Troubador: Performer's Talent: Grants a chance at causing reactive mental damage.- Troubador: Lullaby: Reuse set at 15 seconds.- Troubador: Shrill: Reduced power cost.- Troubador: Brilliant Blade: Removed power damage. Now reduces all spell resists on target.- Troubador: Deafening Strike: Increased power damage.- Troubador: Aria of Excitement: Procs cannot be outright resisted.- Troubador: Lore's Shuddering: Burns health in addition to power for any ability used by the target.- Troubador: Requiem of Reflection: Trigger percentages match dirge Percussion of Stone. Now non-profession spell damage is completely absorbed on a successful proc.Latest update on test.. Altho still no mezz, charm on epics it still doesnt look bad

[Jerr]

<P>At this stage in EQ2's life, no class should be having one of its defining abilities nerfed 98%.</P> <P>This just shows a lack of respect for the players who invested the time in developing their characters to high levels.</P> <P>Just sad,</P> <P>Jerril</P> <P> </P>

[Reptilianb]

<P>yes...</P> <P> </P> <P>and i don't want any other improvments myself.. i would rather have charm back and reduce other skills... even though really.. we should av our skills increased and not nerf charm.</P> <P>We've just gone from bad, to useless.</P> <P> </P> <P>I woudln't mind charm using 3 - 4 conc slots.</P>