Possible overcrowding in tradeskill instances

[msheaf]

With the removal of 3 of the four tradeskill instancs in each burb I am afriad that the remaining one is going to be way too overcrowded and laggy. For example on Everfrost Willow Wood had the highest level TS instances (back when it mattered). This means that lots of folks still TS there. Going into the wholesaler instance under the current rules you will find a lot of people at once. What happens when those of us who typically craft at the high end society now must also craft at the wholesaler. This is something we will have a hard time testing on test due to the smaller population. <div></div>

[Serendia]

Since you are no longer locked into one society, if its overcrowded, find another. Not to be trite, but the idea of these changes is to simplify the system thus making it more valuable and easy to update, maintain, and use. That is a welcome change imho.

[Cele]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> msheaf1 wrote:<BR>With the removal of 3 of the four tradeskill instancs in each burb I am afriad that the remaining one is going to be way too overcrowded and laggy. For example on Everfrost Willow Wood had the highest level TS instances (back when it mattered). This means that lots of folks still TS there. Going into the wholesaler instance under the current rules you will find a lot of people at once. What happens when those of us who typically craft at the high end society now must also craft at the wholesaler. This is something we will have a hard time testing on test due to the smaller population.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Aye, this is also a concern for.  I dont care to run from burb to burb hoping for a less crowded area.  Saving my coin/status points to buy a stove and keg so I can craft in my room</P> <P> </P> <P>edited cuz I cant type, need more coffee</P><p>Message Edited by Raven2002 on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:32 AM</span>

[Howlingmoon]

<font color="#E2BD01">I'm really hoping with tis change, they might reconsider the extravagent status price tag on the elaborate crafting tables for our homes. <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Elorah]

<P>I am worried about the overcrowding as well.  I am considering buying the elaborates as well for my room, but amd concerned about buying fuels. That is what has stopped me from buying them so far.  I would rayther not have to zone just to buy fuels <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P>

[EnchanterB]

<div><blockquote><hr>Howlingmoon wrote:<font color="#e2bd01">I'm really hoping with tis change, they might reconsider the extravagent status price tag on the elaborate crafting tables for our homes. <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font><hr></blockquote><font color="#ccccff">Well, with the crafting revamp, it won't be necessary to buy 5 tables (as a woodworker) in order to be self sufficient.</font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff">I've already sold back all my tables except for the sawhorse in my house. Each discipline would only need 1, maybe 2 tables to work on.</font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff">Now, the thing is, any table less than elaborate would be rediculous to own. If you're only making final combines, then pristine is a must.</font></div>

[Howlingmoon]

<blockquote><hr>EnchanterB wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Howlingmoon wrote:<font color="#e2bd01">I'm really hoping with tis change, they might reconsider the extravagent status price tag on the elaborate crafting tables for our homes. <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font><hr></blockquote><font color="#ccccff">Well, with the crafting revamp, it won't be necessary to buy 5 tables (as a woodworker) in order to be self sufficient.</font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff">I've already sold back all my tables except for the sawhorse in my house. Each discipline would only need 1, maybe 2 tables to work on.</font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff">Now, the thing is, any table less than elaborate would be rediculous to own. If you're only making final combines, then pristine is a must.</font></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#E2BD01">Where do you live again ? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I still use two tables in T7, and who knows if they're going to fix sconces being made on the woodworking table! If they did, that'd still be three tables. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I barely have enough status to only buy one table at the current price.

[Lint26]

<P>If the lag does start to have an effect I'll just buy the table and move into my room, I've got plenty of personal status to do so. But for those who haven't got the status (or guild level to buy the pristines) then I guess thats going to suck, as will the zoning to buy rares.</P> <P>Personally on Runnyeye never seen much of a crafting population, and ironforge is nearly always empty (maybe 1 or 2 in there max) so not really expecting much change.</P>

[EnchanterB]

<div><blockquote><hr>Elorah wrote:<div></div> <p>I am worried about the overcrowding as well.  I am considering buying the elaborates as well for my room, but amd concerned about buying fuels. That is what has stopped me from buying them so far.  I would rayther not have to zone just to buy fuels <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <hr></blockquote><font color="#ccccff">1) You're not making subs anymore. Fuels will last you longer - and you'll only need one type from this point foward (maybe a second depending on your profession).</font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff">2) Buy several stacks and store them in your bank vault. Rosewood Strong boxes. Gotta love 'em.</font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff">Think about how much (or how little) you'll do without subcombines. Raws = Final product.</font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff">There's not going to be much crowding in the crafting instances. All that time you spent making subs you'll spend bending over with a pick, axe, or whatever tool you use to gather.</font></div>

[Dazzler_Twodir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> EnchanterB wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Howlingmoon wrote:<BR><FONT color=#e2bd01>I'm really hoping with tis change, they might reconsider the extravagent status price tag on the elaborate crafting tables for our homes. <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT color=#ccccff>Well, with the crafting revamp, it won't be necessary to buy 5 tables (as a woodworker) in order to be self sufficient.</FONT><FONT color=#ccccff><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ccccff><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ccccff>I've already sold back all my tables except for the sawhorse in my house. Each discipline would only need 1, maybe 2 tables to work on.</FONT><FONT color=#ccccff><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ccccff><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ccccff>Now, the thing is, any table less than elaborate would be rediculous to own. If you're only making final combines, then pristine is a must.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I doubt a carpenter can make rugs, paintings, and lamps on the sawhorse.</P> <P> </P> <P>I have 3 elaborate stations ( sawhorse, forge , loom ) in my basement along with a T3 chem table.</P>

[msheaf]

Carpenters may still need three machines. Sawhorse for most things, loom for rugs and forge for lighting. We'll have to see what they do though as the craftsman receipies haven't been updated yet. <div></div>

[Joras]

<P>Well, I don't believe that is correct.  I believe the new recipes will require more fuels per combine, being that they are final.  So you will be using just as many fuels per end result.  But they do stack in 100s and even in a small 5s a week room you could have 64 slots available for storage.  No, it's not the best setup but I don't see it as undoable.</P> <P> </P> <P>Ryku</P>

[Howlingmoon]

<font color="#E2BD01">T7 Carpenter recipes are on woodworking table and loom. Only the tapestries and rug (I think, servers down and can't double check) are made on the loom. Even the one sconce we have in T7 was made on the woodworking table.

[EnchanterB]

<div><blockquote><hr>Howlingmoon wrote:<blockquote><hr>EnchanterB wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Howlingmoon wrote:<font color="#e2bd01">I'm really hoping with tis change, they might reconsider the extravagent status price tag on the elaborate crafting tables for our homes. <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font><hr></blockquote><font color="#ccccff">Well, with the crafting revamp, it won't be necessary to buy 5 tables (as a woodworker) in order to be self sufficient.</font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff">I've already sold back all my tables except for the sawhorse in my house. Each discipline would only need 1, maybe 2 tables to work on.</font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff">Now, the thing is, any table less than elaborate would be rediculous to own. If you're only making final combines, then pristine is a must.</font></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#e2bd01">Where do you live again ? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I still use two tables in T7, and who knows if they're going to fix sconces being made on the woodworking table! If they did, that'd still be three tables. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I barely have enough status to only buy one table at the current price.</font><hr></blockquote><font color="#ccccff">Lucie Street, second door from the NQ, in the building across from broker's place. (I still can't remember my address. I think it's one house up from 8 Lucie street.)</font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff">You're welcome to use my table any day. I'll give you friend access so that you can access your vault from my house. You can place your tables in there too. I still have the house decorated for placement of multiple tables (those empty carpets in the corners... hehe).</font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff">And you know what, I make pikes on the Forge. As I have the status, I'll buy a Forge, place it in there, and we're set.</font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff">Bring your tables and we can invite the rest of the Willow Wood clique to my place. I've gone horribly off topic, haven't I? *chuckles*</font></div>

[Howlingmoon]

<font color="#E2BD01">lmfao If you have the woodworking table already in there, no sense in me wasting status to buy another. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And my house tis so bloody laggy, there's no way I can craft in it. Wait, you still have all those pets ? <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> /unhijack thread <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />P.S. Log in! Servers are up. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Howlingmoon]

<blockquote><hr>Howlingmoon wrote:<font color="#E2BD01">T7 Carpenter recipes are on woodworking table and loom. Only the tapestries and rug (I think, servers down and can't double check) are made on the loom. Even the one sconce we have in T7 was made on the woodworking table.<hr></blockquote><font color="#E2BD01">Servers are up. I just checked. T7 rug tis made on sawhorse (woodworking table). Tapestries are made on loom. Everything else in T7 tis on the WWT.

[EnchanterB]

<div><blockquote><hr>Howlingmoon wrote:<font color="#e2bd01">lmfao If you have the woodworking table already in there, no sense in me wasting status to buy another. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And my house tis so bloody laggy, there's no way I can craft in it. Wait, you still have all those pets ? <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> /unhijack thread <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />P.S. Log in! Servers are up. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font><hr></blockquote><font color="#ccccff">I'm at work! *cry*</font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff"></font><font color="#ccccff">I'll supply the Sawhorse and the Forge - you can buy the Loom.</font><font color="#ccccff">I'll even put my pets away if that means I'll have company. I loves company.---To keep this sorta on topic:If you know other crafters in the 10+ crafting instances, get together and buy or use a current home as a crafting instance. Anyone can use a table if they are a visitor. Only those who supply the table / want to use their vaults, need friend or trustee access. </font></div>

[SavinDwa]

<P>hmm....</P> <P>As another poster has already stated many crafters moved to Willowwood because the bank/crafting./housing/mailbox are very close.   Just after KoS came out I saw as many as 25 crafters in one of the craftign zones (alchy/sage/jeweler).  So... assuming this is going to actrually save anything on the development side can you at least consider instances?  Perhaps more than 25 crafters and its starts another instance?</P>

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> msheaf1 wrote:<BR>With the removal of 3 of the four tradeskill instancs in each burb I am afriad that the remaining one is going to be way too overcrowded and laggy. For example on Everfrost Willow Wood had the highest level TS instances (back when it mattered). This means that lots of folks still TS there. Going into the wholesaler instance under the current rules you will find a lot of people at once. What happens when those of us who typically craft at the high end society now must also craft at the wholesaler. This is something we will have a hard time testing on test due to the smaller population.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Plus with the lack of needed subcombines I can see more crafters purchasing the stations for their homes and choosing to craft there.</P> <P>You can actually stay in vendor mode while crafting which I think will be nice for some.</P>

[Wingrider01]

Am I missing something in the patch message? If shows that the societies are being combined, but do not see where the original number of TS instances are changing to a lower number. If I am missing them stating the TS instances where being removed, can someone point it out please in the pathc message

[Mikkahl]

<P>Since we won't need the non-pristine tables, I wish they'd lower the guild level requirements for buying the elaborate tables.  Don't you have to the guild level 25 now?  They should lower it to 15 or 20.</P> <P>And where does it say they are implementing the no-subcombines in LU24?  I don't see it in the test update notes.  I hope they at least test these changes a little bit before shoving them Live! </P> <P>And is there a date for LU24?  I'm guessing next week, after the bonus XP weekend?</P>

[Zaldor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mikkahl wrote:<BR> <P>Since we won't need the non-pristine tables, I wish they'd lower the guild level requirements for buying the elaborate tables.  Don't you have to the guild level 25 now?  They should lower it to 15 or 20.</P> <P>And where does it say they are implementing the no-subcombines in LU24?  I don't see it in the test update notes.  I hope they at least test these changes a little bit before shoving them Live! </P> <P>And is there a date for LU24?  I'm guessing next week, after the bonus XP weekend?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>- With the new changes to recipes no longer requiring subcombines, the<BR>cities of Freeport and Qeynos have been forced to do inventory and sell<BR>or reforge many of their overstocked supplies. Until this is finished,<BR>they will not be giving out any new work orders for crafted items. Both<BR>Lucan and Antonia apologize for the inconvenience this may cause some<BR>business owners and thank you for your patience until this matter is<BR>resolved.<BR></P> <P>Doesn't come right out and say that they have converted every tier...but that's as close a statement as I could find in the update notes.<BR></P>

[thexono]

dont know if this was said or not, but maybe they will be splitting it up into different instances ( i.e. The Dark bargainers 2)<div></div>

[Maroger]

<DIV>Don't worry about overcrowding -- if LU24 goes live with the current nerfs there will be so many cancellations that the TS instances will be virtually empty!!!</DIV>

[Thicket Tundrabog]

I don't think there will be overcrowding in tradeskill instances. With the removal of sub-combines, I estimate that my time in tradeskill instances will be slashed by more than 75%. This will be the case for others as well.<div></div>

[DeathRider69]

<blockquote><hr>Thicket Tundrabog wrote:I don't think there will be overcrowding in tradeskill instances. With the removal of sub-combines, I estimate that my time in tradeskill instances will be slashed by more than 75%. This will be the case for others as well.<div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#66ff00">Well I think you are wrong no matter how I have looked at it.  If the XP is nerfed to be 1% per non-sub recipe versus 1% for each subcomine, then people will have to make X times more of the same items to level and thus will be spending days on the TS tables (and spending a lot more time vendor trashing made items to cover fuel costs).  If the XP is equivalent to subs (i/e I get 6% for all subs+final combine) then people will be hammering out levels.  Either way it make TS easier and thus either people will be able to level faster and will be doing more crafting or they will have to spend all their time grinding to get that level.  Either way they should be packed to the room with no available tables. </font><div></div>

[Maroger]

<DIV>I think they should leave all the instances in the housing zones -- especially the more popular housing zones.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If they think there won't be overcrowding in TS instances they are fooling themselves!! Of course we will have to suffer untiil they realize their mistakes!!</DIV>

[Telka]

<DIV>with this system I might accuacly craft</DIV>

[StealthM0]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SavinDwarf wrote:<BR> <P>hmm....</P> <P>As another poster has already stated many crafters moved to Willowwood because the bank/crafting./housing/mailbox are very close.   Just after KoS came out I saw as many as 25 crafters in one of the craftign zones (alchy/sage/jeweler).  So... assuming this is going to actrually save anything on the development side can you at least consider instances?  Perhaps more than 25 crafters and its starts another instance?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>All zones are instanced already. We did a test like this on bayle and opened up a 2nd instance of Ironforge Exchange after 100 clients were in the first instance (yes tradeskill are instances already). This is on LIVE servers btw, not test. So I imagine any change to the societies wont remove the instances.</DIV>

[Mikkahl]

<DIV>100 in a tradeskill instance is way too many!  There's only 24 tables, so the 25 limit makes a lot more sense to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And you've got to be kidding about Willow Wood being the best layout.  The bank is across the street from the Inn, and the mail box is around the corner.  Starcrest/Nettleville have the best layout, because the banker is right in the inn, and the mailbox is directly outside the door.  I can stand there completely overburdened with strong boxes and still do all my banking and merchant business, and go in/out of my room without taking a single step!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course that means Starcrest Inn gets so crowded some times you can hardly see the banker to click on him!</DIV>

[pantswearer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mikkahl wrote:<BR> <DIV>100 in a tradeskill instance is way too many!  <FONT color=#ff0000>There's only 24 tables</FONT>, so the 25 limit makes a lot more sense to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And you've got to be kidding about Willow Wood being the best layout.  The bank is across the street from the Inn, and the mail box is around the corner.  Starcrest/Nettleville have the best layout, because the banker is right in the inn, and the mailbox is directly outside the door.  I can stand there completely overburdened with strong boxes and still do all my banking and merchant business, and go in/out of my room without taking a single step!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course that means Starcrest Inn gets so crowded some times you can hardly see the banker to click on him!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Multiple crafters can use the same table at the same time....</P> <P>I do agree though that 100 in one TS instance is too many. The lag would be horrible. <BR></P>

[Gareorn]

All I ask is, if you see me tradeskilling in your home, please don't kick me out.:smileytongue:

[Ebjelen]

<div></div><div></div> <p>I understand the concern but I think something has been overlooked. Every zone in EQ2 can be cloned. This is what the devs refer to as instancing: a cloned copy of code running within one program. On MS platforms, you don't use the "file copy" of a program. Rather, you use copies of the file which are called instances. This way several people could be running instances of the same "file copy" without locking it up. By refering to tradeskill zones as instances you dilute the definition of the term. It causes confusion here on the boards for someone with a programing background.</p> <p>Unfortunately, there isn't much one code shop can do about the tendancy of people to mutate their language into dialects.</p> <p>You can, and often do, have multiple instances, or clones, of the same zone. The feature is turned off for some zones, like cities, and for now, tradeskill zones.</p> <p>My guess is instancing can be enabled for tradeskill zones as well. Prior to the server mergers pre-KoS-release, the devs aluded to other ways that overcrowding could be alleviated. I see unlocking private zones and tradeskill zones as a big step in that direction.</p> <p>The trick for us to figure out is how to force the spawning of a new instance. </p> <p>edit: where did the spellchecker go? </p><p>Message Edited by Ebjelen on <span class=date_text>05-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:07 PM</span>

[Xa]

Well, i think the simplest solution for SOE is to make 'Elaborate' Crafting Stations MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaperAlso, why the hell would anyone want a non elaborate.<div></div>

[Xa]

Another idea..Put BROKERS on the Street AND/OR In the TS InstanceIn my server, which is probably one of the least affected (Venekor (PvP)) 75% of people in TS instance are crowded round the broker, and i'm only on the 3rd most popular zone.<div></div>

[Xa]

PUT A TRAMPOLINE AT THE BOTTOM OF FP TS INSTANCES <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (In between the forges)<div></div>

[Atrix Wolfe]

<DIV>haha over crowding?  everyone will be out harvesting for hours, when they get back they'll have enough for 10 - 20 combines before they run out for hours more. It'll be a ghost town.</DIV>

[MrMartin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thicket Tundrabog wrote:<BR>I don't think there will be overcrowding in tradeskill instances. With the removal of sub-combines, I estimate that my time in tradeskill instances will be slashed by more than 75%. This will be the case for others as well.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Quite the opposite. I absolutly hated sub-combines. Thats why my weaponsmith is stuck at 33, my alchie at 26 and carpenter at 22.<BR>When the no-sub system goes in I will lvl both my alchie and weaponsmith and enjoy it!<BR>I dont mind spending lots of time harvesting, I might get a free rare in the process. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I have 8 Crafting XP-potions on my Weaponsmith that I have saved for this. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Mikkahl]

<DIV>No, Ebjelon, we're not confused, and I'm a programmer too.  We're talking both about tradeskill zones (which are going from 4 to 1 in each suberb) and about multiple instances of each zone.  Instances are like when there's both Antonica and Antonica 2, or separate instances for raiding zones.  One poster reported a test where they were able to get Ironforge Exchange (one zone) to spawn a second instance when the first instance reached 100 players.  We are suggesting that they enable instancing for all tradeskill zones (if it isn't already), and to reduce the cut-off point to much less than 100 players per instance.<BR></DIV>

[Calthine]

I'd cap it way below 100, though.  When Wayfarerers was the nighest society in Nek waty way back when you darn near couldn't MOVE for the lag issues.  One person being an @ss with fireworks could stop everyone dead in thier tracks.<p>Message Edited by Calthine on <span class=date_text>05-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:12 AM</span>

[Rijacki]

<div><blockquote><hr>Calthine wrote:<div></div> <div></div>I'd cap it way below 100, though.  When Wayfarerers was the nighest society in Nek waty way back when you darn near couldn't MOVE for the lag issues.  One person being an @ss with fireworks could stop everyone dead in thier tracks.<hr></blockquote>At least we no longer have the monsterous spiders which conjurers would park in the doorways and siphon for power but no one could get around (or walk through).  I guess if you want to tradeskill in a quieter setting, though, you'll need to get into a 25+ level guild, buy crafting stations and then use up a HUGE part of your inventory carrying fuel to your room.</div>

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mikkahl wrote:<BR> <DIV>100 in a tradeskill instance is way too many!  There's only 24 tables, so the 25 limit makes a lot more sense to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Since when is there a one person per table limit?</P> <P>There is enough room for easily 4-5 people per table, if not more, as long as you can see it, you can use it.</P>

[Gareorn]

<P>Lag has been a problem since the KoS release and I have not been able to use Wayfarer's since.  I can't believe anything good is going to come from merging the tradeskill zones.  At least fuels are stackable to 100.  Looks like I'll just have to stock up on the fuels and head over to the guild house.  I can't wait until they get rid of the sub-combines for T6 and below though.  As a Jeweler, I use everything except the stove if I'm making a belt or scarf.</P> <P>I made my first T7 items last night and each item took me all of one minute to complete.  Very nice!  But, to make the T6 version, I start at the chemistry table, move over to the loom, then the forge and then back to the Jelewer's Desk for the final combines.  What a time sink.</P> <P>There is also the Iron Forge Exchange that folks can use, and I've even thought of using the tradeskill area sitting out on the island in Everfrost.  I never see anyone tradeskilling there.</P> <P>Edit:  Almost forgot the reason I posted in the first place.  The limit is that at which you can no longer counter the hits due to the lag.  And that seems to be around 25 people unless some freaks of nature decide to bring their pets in with them.  Then it drops significantly.  Oh!  And doesn't everyone just love to tradeskill with someone's elemental floating over their desk.  Dang, that's distracting.  Yes, fewer tradeskill zones is exactly what we need.:smileytongue:</P><p>Message Edited by Gareorn on <span class=date_text>05-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:49 PM</span>

[Ebjelen]

<blockquote><hr>KBern wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Mikkahl wrote: <div>100 in a tradeskill instance is way too many!  There's only 24 tables, so the 25 limit makes a lot more sense to me.</div> <div>  </div><hr> </blockquote> <p>Since when is there a one person per table limit?</p> <p>There is enough room for easily 4-5 people per table, if not more, as long as you can see it, you can use it.</p><hr></blockquote>Aye, and many people use the brokers in the tradeskill zones rather than crowding the city brokers. On the PvP board, there's actually several debates on whether or not to make tradeskill zones non-PvP. The broker board being the ideal spot to gank someone carrying lots of money for shopping. You do have to plan for the extrene cases, or the highly skewed tree. What if 50 people want to use the forges, that's 8 or 9 per table. Now imagine 75 wanting the forge or even all 100. That would be 16 per table if everyone agreed on sharing equally.  Two Americans can't be left alone for 5 minutes before they find something to argue about. (that's why we only need 12 for a jury) Asking 50 or more Americans to agree on a way to share 6 tables in a game they're paying to play is asking a lot. OtoH, allowing people to spawn their own tradeskill zone would mean hundreds of fat server instances with still no gaurantee of privacy. I would split the difference for now and go with the cutoff of 50.<div></div>

[Seltha-Larren]

<P>The simple answer to all this is ... in the same way that we have Norrathian Express Mailboxes for our room, it would be really nice to have a safe which grants access to our bank vault, and a storage cupboard which we can purchase fuels 'on consignment' from.</P> <P>2 more guild levels and I can finally buy the elaborate tables, so I'm really looking forward to being able to craft at home.</P>

[Impetus]

<blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Calthine wrote:<div></div> <div></div>I'd cap it way below 100, though.  When Wayfarerers was the nighest society in Nek waty way back when you darn near couldn't MOVE for the lag issues.  One person being an @ss with fireworks could stop everyone dead in thier tracks.<hr></blockquote>At least we no longer have the monsterous spiders which conjurers would park in the doorways and siphon for power but no one could get around (or walk through).  I guess if you want to tradeskill in a quieter setting, though, you'll need to get into a 25+ level guild, buy crafting stations and then use up a HUGE part of your inventory carrying fuel to your room.</div><hr></blockquote>If you've already bought a crafting station, you might as well buy a mailbox for your house as well, and mail yourself stacks of fuel. I think you might have to have an alt mail it to you, actually. You can even read the message without receiving the gift, to get rid of the "You've got mail" icon. Presto, several stacks of emergency fuel ready to go whenever you need em.<div></div>

[Littl]

Did most people forget that EQ2 opens up copy instances when crowding happens?Anyway, I would like to see some crowding. For too long now everywhere we go is a ghost town except for Willow Wood. Even Willow Wood doesn't have as much people running around and crafting as most other towns and crafting areas in MMOGs. I'd like to see some people gathered around, talking, and crafting.Are people more anti-social these days or are they just worried about lag?

[Nukuxia]

Yes I too have seen a second instance of a zone when it was WAY less than crowded so why do the same for a tradeskill society instance? <div></div>

[OperationsX]

<DIV>Are you kidding me with this thread? Maybe its different on the merged servers but on our server there's 0-3 people max in a TS instance these days, 0 morning, 1 night, 2 and 3 at max afternoon/evenings... this includes 3 major cities regular TS zones and 3 major societies even ironforge exchange , that's where I get the 3 numbers from.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by OperationsX on <span class=date_text>05-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:54 PM</span>

[Mikkahl]

<DIV>Well, since they announced the upcoming tradeskill changes several months, activity in most crafting societies has dropped way down.  I guess people keep waiting for the new system instead of living with what we have now.  That's why it's less crowded now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I remember before this announcement, when it was difficult to find a bare spot to click on one of the 3 chemistry tables, because of so many people and pets blocking the view.  I've taken to parking my dwarf on the little table at the back wall to be more out of the way (ok, and to look taller - I admit it! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the new system coming in and there being only 1/4 as many crafting societies, we anticipate the crowding to return 4-fold.  So, to avoid lag and overcrowding we are suggesting that they open up a new instance when the current one has 25-50 players in it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And to Littles who asked if we forgot about instances, obviously the whole thread has been about instances, whether TS societies should use them and at what level.</DIV>

[GCT]

<DIV>I agree with this.  The Wholesaler in Willow Wood on AB is always very crowded, and I am glad that I have the other societies to go to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am a die hard roleplayer, and I really do not want my crafting characters to have homes other than Willow Wood.  Having to zone to another town every time I want to craft is a ridiculous and unnecessary hardship.</DIV>

[DeathRider69]

<font color="#ff6600">Dang!   I must have misread the announcement...  I did not think they were merging the 4 TS insances in the cities but removing the socities from them.  Thus I can pop into craftsman in Stonestair Byway or scholar in Big Bend.  My understanding was that I no longer had to belong to any one society in any city.  All 4 instances would be open to me anywhere I went to go crafting.It seems to me that they are just removing the society and status so that people can craft anyway of any class.  The wholesaler in the instance would just have all books available for all classes.Not tested it so I may be wrong but that was how I read it.</font><div></div>

[Ebjelen]

The problem is that people are herd animals. Most follow wherever the herd leads, even over cliffs like buffalo. Additionally, with the subcombines leaving, more people will be crafting. Of course, opening up the door for all means more opportunity for griefers as well. Imagine griefers huddled around tables, blocking and genrally being a nuisance. Imagine multiple duels going on while trying to watch the numbers. (bored people waiting for you to finish an item) More people are definitely going to enter the tradeskill zones. The questions at handare will the tradskill zones instance enough? And, should I have to move somewhere else to craft in peace? <div></div>