A request for clarification.

[Ishbu]

<DIV>I just would like some developer to shed some light onto a question the shown changes of LU24 have brought into my mind.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do the developers want summoners (both necro and conjuror) to be nothing but bots that people use to tag along outside of the raid?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is an honest question.  I mean based on these changes many classes will do more dps than either summoner, so you would not want them in your raid for dps purposes.  The only things a conjuror will bring to the table over other classes are shards and coh.  That would be grounds for having them as a botted character that doesnt get invited into the raid.  Everything else they do is done better by other classes that also bring other aspects to the table.  The only things a necro brings are the ability to rez and FD in one class and hearts.  Another great reason to leave them outside the raid as a bot.  Everything else they can do are now done better by other classes that bring more to the table.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So please, just answer me if that is what you developers want.  If the answer is no, then you need to rethink some changes and perhaps add somethign to make these 2 classes have a purpose.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you wont answer that, perhaps you will answer this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Will you not rest till all dps classes except wizards suck?  I mean first it was warlocks, then rangers, now summoners.  I can only assume assassins, berserkers, and rogues are next on the chopping block.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is all for now.  Could someone kindly point me to the place of classes that used to have a role in this game...er....the ranger boards?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ishboozor on <span class=date_text>05-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:50 PM</span>

[Jal]

Slight overexaggeration especially in the light of the poor troubs who got nerfed by the stun changes way more than our entire nerf.

[enrique_to]

All classes are being nerfed with this LU. ALL CLASSES...Some will have more nerfs , some will have less... But all have nerfs...I do not think both summoners classes are soo badly nerf. Many people think they were overpowered so many people knew they will be nerf. <div></div>As a Warlock I'll loose more Control spells that you. Your pet will be able to tank you as good as alwais. Our control spells nerf wi'll make us a hard quest to solo. We loose the stun component on our signature spell. We loose stun duration on 2 spells. One of them have a hi stun duration decrease. We'll have our roots duration hightly reduced, and we do not have pets to tank us the mobs. I can undestand you as a RAIDER see yourself badly nerf. But Warlocks still being less productive as you are on raids and our solo / group habilities are lesser now. All classes are nerf. That's sure. You are not the only ones.

[Ishbu]

<DIV>Control and stun spells for any classes (except chanters now) do not affect raids at all.  A pet cannot tank in a raid.  Of course the two summoner classes will still be fairly good solo'ers and decent group players, but what purpose do they server a raid at all now?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The ONLY things they bring are out of combat abilities, so why bother having them in for combat if other classes will do more?  Each class is supposed to have something they can do that makes them desirable for combat, and in a raid setting each classes unique abilities are what stands out the most.  With these nerfs they are taking away all incombat things that made the summoners worthwhile.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How many of you posting know what it was like raiding as a summoner pre LU13?  Almost no guild had both a necro and a conjuror, and many guilds didnt even have either.  There was no real reason to.  These nerfs make the classes out to be very similar for a raid to what they were back then.  It is not an overexaggeration at all, and I find it odd you could tell me that it is since you obviously missed the part when I talked about raids.</DIV>

[Serendia]

With the proliferation of instanced raiding, you need to have them in the raid if you want them to benefit the raid. That being said, there are many classes you don't <b><i>need</i></b> any of in a raid for it to be successful. If you are considered a good player and a valued member of a guild, the guild will take you. If they won't, find a new guild.

[Cuz]

Do raiders really exclude classes that horribly? Like on live right now is the DPS mostly summoners? I'm asking because I've never not invited someone in my group because of class. I don't raid, so I'm asking if it is truly that harsh.

[Ishbu]

<P>Yes, raiders are very selective about what classes they have.  Many guilds adopt a policy of no friends here, wich means if your not pulling your weight, your out regardless of how "cool" a person you may be.  To many people that may sound like it isnt any fun, but these type of people like to raid and most importantly raid well.  Anything less than the best isnt tolerable.  If you dont think these changes will resort classes like summoners to garbage, just reference rangers.  Back in t6 most raiding guilds had multiple rangers, now many guilds dont even have one.  We personally used to have 2 rangers on roster and now we have none, with one of them switching to a different class to be useful.  </P> <P>Am I personally worried about my place in a raid?  Of course not.  We only have 24 people on our roster to begin with, not to mention in the guild leader, but that doesnt mean I like to see this happen to other conjurors out there, and it will happen, or many will just quit, I dont know.   </P> <P>Two posts up someone mentioned instance raids, well no the summoners dont need to be in raid at all.  Just have the summoners meet up before the raid and heart/shard everyone.  No need for CoH because its an instance and why bother rezzing up when you can just revive and run back in the same amount of time in an instance?  Even still you could invite those classes to the raid, zone them in, and have them camp out.  Then if you needed another heart/shard you would have someone else camp out temporarily for the summoner to log in....clearly a case where botting the character is the best way of accomplishing this.  </P> <P>Troubadours, well they need to put up their songs and put on auto follow.  Any decent damage they used to be able to do or any other utility they might have provided has been stripped.  /autofollow and a macro to cast prescion every few minutes and nobody would ever know the difference.</P>

[Cuz]

I appreciate your response. I'm as easy going as they come. So this is an aspect of the game that I've never been exposed to. I guess I'm lucky in a way.

[enrique_to]

Yeah. Some of this never ending threads flow about nerf is cause some class will be less efective in Raids situations...Ok. Now Summoners will be less efective in Raids. That's what developers try to do. And you undestand some uber guild will look for another non summoners classes because that. Do you really think that? Summoners will do a great role on raids. May be they do a bit less damage. But they still being very valuable raids members. How many Raids are shorts? Most raids finish with sorcerors mana pool emptySo most Raids Summoners will do a better role. I do not think it's the end for top raiders summoners. <div></div>

[Ishbu]

<P>I am sorry, but what you think is wrong.  I know from personal experience already that guilds will go looking for people other than summoners. PERIOD.</P> <P>You want dps?  Get a wizard/assassin/rogue.  The only thing summoners are really good for now can be cast out of combat and out of raid.  </P> <P>How about you go find some rangers and tell them how important/useful they are now.  I am sure they will tell you how wrong that is too. Anyone with a clue can see this is the exact same thing only replacing ranger with summoner.</P>