I think Sony should trash LU24

[rDuk]

<DIV>I personally think Sony should trash lu24 due to the overwhelming response from the people. The changes to enchanters, bard, and brawlers are not the best way to solve anything, along with the changes to stuns. I feel this is a rush job to accomandate the new expansion. I'll be the first to say I think Sony should not proceed with LU24 as stated, and should spend time rethinking their approach.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This thread will serve as guidance for helping them find other solutions for the problems they are trying to solve</DIV>

[mylin1]

Ive survived every other update they have made, this one seems a big shift but I think the removal of stuns at least is a good step in a more exciting combat.My warlock looses some stuns, my conj looses something from everywhere.../shrug life (or pretend life) goes onIm hoping that LU 24 brings all the crafting changes too so we can get a this large speedbump out of the way <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Mylin 50 warlock43 ConjAB<div></div>

[MrHell]

I think that Sony should keep LU24, appropriately test and modified. Its a step in the right direction for the game but lets try not to destroy any classes in the process. <div></div>

[Kyriel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrHell wrote:<BR>I think that Sony should keep LU24, appropriately <STRONG><U>test and modified</U></STRONG>.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>like THATS gonna happen...<BR>

[danmuntz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rDuker wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'll be the first to say I think Sony should not proceed with LU24 as stated, and should spend time rethinking their approach.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>HAH! The FIRST? ROFL!<BR></P>

[Xi]

Ummm removal of stuns isnt a good step towards exciting combat if your only claim to fame *is* stuns.  They said before not to worry about PVP vs PVE balance, well.... then keep stuns working as they are on PVP servers because the Brigand class is going to be a pvp speedbump with low-dps and no stunning.  LU24 is the biggest step backwards I've seen them take yet.<div></div>

[Toskrin]

<DIV>Moorgard properly stated that the vision for a class is not for the devs, but for the players to make their own. My vision of my troubador is of a scout that uses charm.  The proposed change totally kill that "vision".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For me, LU24 destroys my troubador.  What is the purpose of singling out the Troubador charm for destruction when Coercer and Necro charms are left alone?  Anyone have any ideas?</DIV>

[Flipmode]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Toskrin wrote:<BR> <DIV>Moorgard properly stated that the vision for a class is not for the devs, but for the players to make their own. My vision of my troubador is of a scout that uses charm.  The proposed change totally kill that "vision".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For me, LU24 destroys my troubador.  What is the purpose of singling out the Troubador charm for destruction when Coercer and Necro charms are left alone?  Anyone have any ideas?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I dont know why they gutted your charm, but charm is definately a Coercer signature spell and should be left alone.  I feel for all bard/encs in this LU.  Seems this is their way to pahse out the "utility" classes.

[thorvang]

if SOE doesn't want troubs to be any good at crowd control, fine. but don't release a half [Removed for Content] update that takes away cc from the troubs without giving them something else to make up for the loss of one key abilities most of us get used to.

[Gornd]

<P>I've never seen a game make so much effort to remove possibilities and abilities from players.  Every update like this lessens that gap between, the almost now indistinguishable, abilities of players to that have DPS.  </P> <P>It seems like a lost episode all over again... just push the button.  Thats all combat is now.</P>

[hyperpath]

<div>To be honest..i dont see much wrong with this update,Basically every class is taking a hit, and summoners were overpowered and have been for a long time...Troubadors are bards which buff groups... the fact they had mezz in the first place was strange,Brawler stuns were a bit too much, especially in pvp where alongside my damage i could basically kill most people without them being able to cast one attack or spell.Why complain about it :ponly makes a game that was too easy initially a little more of a challenge.</div>

[enrique_to]

<div><blockquote><hr>hyperpathic wrote:<div>To be honest..i dont see much wrong with this update,Basically every class is taking a hit, and summoners were overpowered and have been for a long time...Troubadors are bards which buff groups... the fact they had mezz in the first place was strange,Brawler stuns were a bit too much, especially in pvp where alongside my damage i could basically kill most people without them being able to cast one attack or spell.Why complain about it :ponly makes a game that was too easy initially a little more of a challenge.</div><hr></blockquote>The game wasn't too ease. If you find it too ease you are not finding the rigth challenges. With the new LU, Only ubers will be able to take some challenges that where available at non such uber chars pre LU 24. Not all of us are PvP players. Some of us are PvE. And mobs won't take the nerf. I love making some instances and Now, With the new LU I do not see it much viable. We'll back to the 2 healer compulsive groups and thats suck (I'm a healer and I do not want that)</div>

[Erendil]

<P>I agree. I think that Combat revamp 2.0 sucks and should disappear into the void. </P> <P>The only class I see any positives for is Warriors, and it looks like even as they are supposedly fixing their intercept skills, they already nerfed sentinel.</P>

[Steven9]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All i got to say is i agree that sony should trash LU24.  Anytime a playerbase is unhappy soe should be trying to make us happy we are paying them.  All classes have there disadvantages and advantages some have alot and some have few thats the choice you make when choosing your toon.  No class should be nerfed to make another class balanced. All classes are balanced and start adding things to the game to make ppl like there class more and stuff and stop taking theses away from us. And I wonder why WoW has like 100x more ppl then Eq2 does :smileyindifferent:  </DIV>

[Methriln]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> danmuntz wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rDuker wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'll be the first to say I think Sony should not proceed with LU24 as stated, and should spend time rethinking their approach.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>HAH! The FIRST? ROFL!<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> hyperpathic wrote:<BR> <DIV>To be honest..<BR><BR>Troubadors are bards which buff groups... the fact they had mezz in the first place was strange,<BR><BR><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Every game I've played that had bards gave bards unparalleled utility. This INCLUDED charming, mezzing, and stunning, as well as buffing</P> <P>Your statement that bards are nothing but buff bots is ill informed and just plain nasty to the people who work very hard at their bards.</P> <P>And no, i do not play a bard in EQ2, and I never have. But I did play one in EQ1 for many years, before they became the "cool" class to play (for that short, short little time lol!)</P>

[Igu]

I join many others when I say, SOE PLEASE reconsider this. :smileysad:

[Maroger]

<DIV>I would agree that LU24 needs to die on the test forum and not be released. Developers need to go back to the drawing board.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have never understood why Class Balancing = NERF. It seems as if the Developers only know of one method to balance classes and that is to NERF them. If players use strategy based on the spells and skills they have to figure out how to defeat an encounters -- HOORAY -- shouldn't the game be about strategy and not a ZERG fes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually there is another way, but it requires more development time than I suspect SOE or any developer wants to take. That is the entire issue of MOB AI.  Mostly MOB AI is really poorly done in these game which is why methods are quickly found to defeat them -- how about fixing the MOB AI and the design of the encounter instead of taking the lazy way out which is to nerf the players. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I find it difficult to believe that developer <FONT color=#ff00cc>COULD NOT FORESEE</FONT> some of these strategies when they designed the encounter!!!</DIV>

[Druzgotek]

<P>The update will go on, and I am not too unhappy about it. Sure my toon gets nerfed to hell, but I am tired of defending summoners. It will be more fun for me to post to nerf other classes, than try to avoid nerfing my own.</P> <P>Hopefully this is just the start of the much needed balancing, and sometime within next five live updates, soe will nerf: monks, brigands, berzerkers, paladins, shadowknights and furies. Those classes are way outside of their tier 3 and 4 dps circles. I am sure I am missing many other overpowered classes too.</P> <P>While soe is not very good at making game itself fun, their forums always are.</P><p>Message Edited by Druzgotek on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:12 AM</span>

[FreaklyCreak]

<DIV>I don't understand all you nay sayers. The one horrible thing I found out to be not true in this LU. That was the supposed nerf to chain mezzing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- If you say trash LU24 that means no tradeskill updates that are SO needed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Chain stuning can, and cant be a good thing. It really depends. Last night using my guardian, a pally, 2 rangers, and a dirge we nearly did all of FBSS(Flowing black silk sash) without a healer. We only had one for the monk in EL.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please consider what they say, and notice im a illusionist and a conj.</DIV>

[rDuk]

<DIV>Lets address each subject seperately first is stuns, which I can really only give from a bruisers point of view. I'm on a pvp server, people run alway, the only chance I have of stopping someone, especially scout classes is the few seconds of stun I have. Soon as they sprint off, goodbye... Don't give me the tired line of group with someone who has crowd control, because the supposely king of CC is shafted to the point where there are very few of them, not to mention they are getting nerfed yet again.... Maybe if you make them more appealing, there would actually be more around that I can group with them more often</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> One of my major dmg CA's is dependant upon the target being stunned before hand which one of my stuns is being taken away to become a daze.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One of the reason's I've chosen a bruiser over a monk besides the free vs qey was the mez, and fear. I utilize both these spells, now they are being placed on the same timer, and not only that monk's are given fear, which is one of the things that seperate monks from bruisers. I do not have any class envy, I'm all the more happy when another class gets some improvements, because I love improvements myself, but jesus I can help but feel slapped in the face. You could of atleast spread out the changes, although I feel they are wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bards</DIV> <DIV>I have this theory that if you have a already low population class such as bards, that you should be looking for a way to attract more people to actually playing the class, rather than nerfing one of their major assests they have as a class. I mean seriously no one pays any attention to bards, I rarely see them. Why are they getting nerfed.........</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Enchanters</DIV> <DIV>I wouldn't care about any of the above if I could finally roll my enchanter (eq1 enc was perfect in my mind, although they were a bit much in demand), but yet again not only do you nerf every else to try to bring something to the enc, you nerf the enc as well....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People have to drop this mindstate of always taking away from the next person, more so than improving themselves</DIV><p>Message Edited by rDuker on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:47 AM</span>

[Astery]

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=5><STRONG>devs should do what they feel right, its their game not ours. we are just silly customers, running around screaming while the action we should take is rather obvious <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> btw, to all who missed it, go check out E3 reviews on upcoming titles!</STRONG></FONT><p>Message Edited by Astery on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:46 PM</span>

[Druzgotek]

Well, Duker. Eq2 is primarily a pve game, maybe your issues should be posted in pvp forum. Soe supposedly has the ability to make same spell work differently in pve and pvp, so posting about wanting your stuns to be longer might fare better in pvp forum.

[Shadus]

<div><blockquote><hr>Flipmode wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Toskrin wrote: <div>Moorgard properly stated that the vision for a class is not for the devs, but for the players to make their own. My vision of my troubador is of a scout that uses charm.  The proposed change totally kill that "vision".</div> <div> </div> <div>For me, LU24 destroys my troubador.  What is the purpose of singling out the Troubador charm for destruction when Coercer and Necro charms are left alone?  Anyone have any ideas?</div> <hr> </blockquote>I dont know why they gutted your charm, but charm is definately a Coercer signature spell and should be left alone.  I feel for all bard/encs in this LU.  Seems this is their way to pahse out the "utility" classes.<hr></blockquote>hah.  Maybe we'll get our very own NGE like galaxies... "We believe these 9 classes oppitomize the core of what people associate with everquest... and have thus killed the rest of the game off in an effort to shove our vision down your throat in the most violent manor possible."  Something about your wording just brought that to mind... sony games are an endless cycle of nerfs.  Maybe i'll go back to wow or eq1 or hell i don't know daoc?, at least SOME of the changes there were occasionally positive.</div>

[Maroger]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Astery wrote:<BR> <FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=5><STRONG>devs should do what they feel right, its their game not ours. we are just silly customers, running around screaming while the action we should take is rather obvious <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> btw, to all who missed it, go check out E3 reviews on upcoming titles!</STRONG></FONT> <P>Message Edited by Astery on <SPAN class=date_text>05-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:46 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>And they should NOT be surprised when revenues decline due to cancellations!!! After all in a sense we pay their salaries and  I think sometimes they forget this fact!!!<BR><p>Message Edited by Maroger on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:45 PM</span>

[Quasicroa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Steven987 wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All i got to say is i agree that sony should trash LU24. <STRONG> </STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Anytime a playerbase is unhappy soe should be trying to make us happy we are paying them.</STRONG>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>and this is why SOE and companies like them are multi-billion dollar entities and you are not. </P> <P>You like many have this very wrong notion of "The customer is always right" stuck in your heads. Its to bad that the average consumer doesn't really know how and when its true.</P> <P>Its time to face that the customer is not always right. No matter how much we ever thought we were we wern't. For the most part its a ploy as all things commercial are to go for your dollar, and done in an effort to make you feel important and win your dollar. </P> <P>However, in todays REAL LIFE WORLD of "Umbrella Corporations" they no longer need to kiss your behind and wipe for you, because if your not happy they know you will go elsewhere. Now you may think that worries them, but when 5 times out of ten you wind up passing your money up to that "Umbrella Corporation" you swore to never do business with again they really don't care since they still have your money.</P> <P>Face it you pay to play the dream of this games designers. That is all. This game is about making SOE money as much as it is to bring to life their vision and dream that THEY wanted. Get the key word "They" that means THEM not you. Just like it says when you log in "....Your in OUR new world now!". </P> <P>They do not need to do whatever makes customers happy. What you need to face is that when their dream no longer fits your wants and needs its time to move on. Don't like hearing that? Well to bad its the truth and well the truth hurts.</P> <P>Oh and yes I do take my own advice seeing that when this game no longer fits my wants and needs I will be moving on without demanding and expecting them to just do what I/we the playerbase say to do.</P> <P>Until then I just pay to rent time in Norrath.</P>

[Tro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Astery wrote:<BR> <FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=5><STRONG>devs should do what they feel right, its their game not ours. we are just silly customers, running around screaming while the action we should take is rather obvious <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> btw, to all who missed it, go check out E3 reviews on upcoming titles!</STRONG></FONT> <P>Message Edited by Astery on <SPAN class=date_text>05-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:46 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Can you post a link please.. </P> <P> </P> <P>Thanks</P>

[Krooner]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quasicroako wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Steven987 wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All i got to say is i agree that sony should trash LU24. <STRONG> </STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>Anytime a playerbase is unhappy soe should be trying to make us happy we are paying them.</FONT></STRONG>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><STRONG><FONT color=#0033ff>and this is why SOE and companies like them are multi-billion dollar entities and you are not</FONT>.</STRONG> </P> <P>You like many have this very wrong notion of "The customer is always right" stuck in your heads. Its to bad that the average consumer doesn't really know how and when its true.</P> <P>Its time to face that the customer is not always right. No matter how much we ever thought we were we wern't. For the most part its a ploy as all things commercial are to go for your dollar, and done in an effort to make you feel important and win your dollar. </P> <P>However, in todays REAL LIFE WORLD of "Umbrella Corporations" they no longer need to kiss your behind and wipe for you, because if your not happy they know you will go elsewhere. Now you may think that worries them, but when 5 times out of ten you wind up passing your money up to that "Umbrella Corporation" you swore to never do business with again they really don't care since they still have your money.</P> <P>Face it you pay to play the dream of this games designers. That is all. This game is about making SOE money as much as it is to bring to life their vision and dream that THEY wanted. Get the key word "They" that means THEM not you. Just like it says when you log in "....Your in OUR new world now!". </P> <P>They do not need to do whatever makes customers happy. What you need to face is that when their dream no longer fits your wants and needs its time to move on. Don't like hearing that? Well to bad its the truth and well the truth hurts.</P> <P>Oh and yes I do take my own advice seeing that when this game no longer fits my wants and needs I will be moving on without demanding and expecting them to just do what I/we the playerbase say to do.</P> <P>Until then I just pay to rent time in Norrath.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>And this is why multi million dollar companies with track records like SOE is developing ultimatly wind up loosing money.</P> <P>Poor coordination of efforts.  </P> <P>Poor communication.</P> <P>And poor execution.  As I have suggested to SOE before, it would really do you guys a world of good to involve some Six Sigma tools in your approach to the development of this game.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Warbird1 on <span class=date_text>05-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:01 AM</span>

[Knesh]

<DIV>Yea, Six Sigma tools can never hurt... SOE would be wise to adopt them.. However that request will go unfulfilled <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Jooneau]

This game was flat out broken when it was released.While they have made tremendous progress since those days, they continuously undo that progress by making drastic changes to the game in the same sloppy way they released the game.They are notoriously bad with the "copy and paste" data errors and the atrocious grammatical and spelling errors.I just get the sense that there is a dedicated crew of folks there who try to do the job right but that there's also a group of folks there who are not only lazy and sloppy about the things they do but increasingly arrogant about it because they manage to keep their jobs despite their ineptitude. And I get the sense that those folks are in charge, not the ones who try to do things right.