Spell and Art Changes in Test Update #24 (So Far)

[Blackguard]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>Here's an up-to-date list of the changes (primarily with control spells) currently on Test (or on shortly), courtesy of Lockeye: <font color="#ffcc00"><b>Spells and Combat Arts</b></font> - All short knockdowns and many short stuns that were 2s in duration are changed to 1.5s duration. - All knockdowns and many short stuns that were 3- 4s in duration are changed to 2.5s duration. - All knockdown effects will not work on epics. - Adjusted all Root, Stifle, Stun, Mesmerize, and Fear durations to have consistent linear progression in durations with level increase. - All examine information references to Pacify have been changed to Daze. - Examine information describing control effects should be generally clearer than before. - All Mesmerize abilities have their own immunity separate of Stun immunity. - Spells that summon stationary objects will cause hate towards the caster instead of the object. - Swarm and Dumbfire pets had their inherent stat bonuses removed from contributing to their damage. This amounts to a 17.5% reduction in their overall damage. <b>Fighter changes:</b> - Guardian: Crumble: Reduced damage on melee hit portion of combat art. - Guardian: Concussion: Increased damage, now reduces casting skills of target instead of power damage. - Guardian: Guardian Sphere: Intercept no longer assists pets in the group. - Guardian: Sentinel: Reduced some of the higher level chances at intercepting damage. Can only be used on Priests or Mages. - Berserker: Stunning Cry: power cost reduced. - Berserker: Vanquish: is now a 6s Stifle instead of a 6- 7s Stun. - Paladin: Glorious Strike effect from Glorious Weapon: reduced stun duration to 2.5 seconds. - Monk: Instill Doubt: changed from a Bruiser to a Brawler ability. - Bruiser: Intimidate: this combat art line now shares its reuse timer with Instill Doubt. - Bruiser: Sucker Punch: Knockdown changed to Daze effect. - Guardian: Entrench: Root component no longer affects Epic targets. - Guardian: Sentry Watch: Death prevention correctly does no process on the caster, only allies in the group. - Bruiser: Instill Doubt: Reduced fear duration, reduced power cost. Increased Resistability. Lowered overall break chances. - Bruiser: Intimidate: Increased Reuse timer to 60 seconds. Increased Resistability. Reduced Mesmerize duration and power cost. <b>Scout changes:</b> - Scout: Cheap Shot: slightly reduced power cost. Duration is 4s instead of 6s on standard or weaker opponents. - Dirge: Lanet's Excruciating Scream: changed into short duration Daze effect that causes disease damage when it expires. The amount of damage was reduced. Reuse time increased to 30s. - Dirge: Garsin's Funeral March: Recast time increased to 45s from 30s. Overall break chance 30%. - Troubador: Lullaby: decreased duration, increase reuse timer to 20s. - Troubador: Bria's Entrancing Sonnet: Now works as a very short term charm.   * Reduced casting time to 2.5s.   * Has use of pet commands except to directly call an attack.   * Duration greatly reduced.   * Removed concentration costs.   * Increased reuse time to 60s. - Ranger: Thorny Trap: Duration of Root effect is reduced. - Predator: Surveil ranged lowered to 35 meters from 50 meters. - Brigand: Blackjack: changed from a 5s Stun to a 6s Hold Direction and Root ability, reduced damage and power cost. - Brigand: Strangling Throw: Reduced damage slightly. - Brigand: Double Up: Double Up list auto- adjusts to use abilities appropriate to the Brigand's level. - Brigand: Fixed issue causing combat art visuals to sometimes be played on the brigand. - Swashbuckler: Disarming Grin: Increased recast timer to 45s from 30s. - Swashbuckler: Cold Throw: Small reduction in damage. - Dirge: Sapping Shot: Recast time increased to 25s. Power drain changed to Root. - Troubador: Singing Shot: Stifle duration set to 6 seconds. - Troubador: Swindle Essence: Damage increased. <b>Priest changes:</b> - Templar: Prostrate: Reduced casting time to 2.5 seconds, Increased Reuse time to 45s. Reduced power cost. - Templar: Divine Arbitration: No longer distributes health from dead players in the group. - Inquisitor: Fearful Conversion: lowered break chance overall to 30% on damage only, expiration effect is a periodic resist update mesmerize instead of root. - Inquisitor: Imprison: Increased Reuse time to 30s. Break chance occurs on damage only. - Defiler: Primordial Terror: Recast time increased to 45s from 30s. Overall break chance reduced to 30%. - Fury: Irritating Swarm: Has changed into a Stifle and Minor Snare. It is now on a 60s reuse timer and 1.5s casting time and shorter duration. - Fury: Pact of the Cheetah: also dispels hostile root effects. - Mystic: Phantasmal Spirits: reduced duration of Mesmerize to 5s. - Templar: Sign of Pacification: Increased reuse time to 30s. Casting time increased to 1.5 seconds. Daze effect does not break early. - Templar: Smite: Removed Daze effect. Reuse timer lowered to 2.5 seconds. Power cost reduced slightly. - Inquisitor: Invocation: Removed Stifle Effect, Power cost reduced slightly. 50% to interrupt target. - Fury: Call of Storms: Each Stormbolt cannot be interrupted and has an increased chance of striking than it did before. - Warden: Verdurous Journey: removed upgrade information and spell scrolls. <b>Mage changes:</b> - Wizard, Warlock, Conjurer, Necromancer: Root Spells:   * Has 15% overall break chance instead of 20%   * Only processes break chances when damage is received, not on any hostile act towards the target.   * Duration reduced. - Wizard: Tongue Twist: Lowers Hate instead of dealing damage. - Wizard: Boreal: mesmerize effect on Caster automatically breaks if target's mesmerize breaks early. - Wizard: Ring of Cold: has 20% chance of breaking when receiving damage. - Warlock: Interference: Slightly lowers hate with encounter instead of dealing damage. - Warlock: Gas Cloud: Reduced stun duration to 1.5s. Lowered reuse timer from 15s to 9s. - Warlock: Dark Siphoning: Reduced casting time to 3s. - Warlock: Devastation: Removed stun component. - Warlock: Bony Grasp: has 15% chance of breaking when receiving damage. - Necromancer: Rat Swarm: Increased reuse time from 45 to 60s. Duration reduced to 45s on upgrades that were set to 60s. - Necromancer: Ghastly Stench: Increased reuse time from 45 to 60s. - Necromancer: Scout Pet: Removed DPS autoattack bonus. - Necromancer: Scout Pet: Reduced Damage on some of their combat arts. - Necromancer: Scout Pet: Acidity: Increased Reuse Timer to 90s. - Necromancer: Fighter Pet: Graven Frenzy: slightly reduced damage. - Necromancer: Aggression: Increased casting skill bonuses granted to pet. - Necromancer: Fear: Recast time increased to 45s from 30s. Overall break chance reduced to 30%. - Necromancer: Grasp: Lowered resistability, reduced casting time to 1.5s, increased reuse time to 45s. - Necromancer: Heal Minion: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Increased overall heal amount and duration reduced to 6 seconds. - Necromancer: Grisly Defense: Slightly improved reactive heal component. - Conjurer: Aqueous Stalkers: Increased reuse time from 45 to 60s. - Conjurer: Roaring Flames: Increased reuse time from 45 to 60s. - Conjurer: Scout Pet: Removed DPS autoattack bonus. - Conjurer: Scout Pet: Reduced Damage on some of their combat arts. - Conjurer: Scout Pet: Galestorm: Increased reuse timer to 90s. - Conjurer: Fighter Pet: Telluric Pummel: slightly reduced damage. - Conjurer: Agitate: Reduced Intelligence bonus granted to pet. - Conjurer: Shattered Ground: Reduced Damage and power cost. - Conjurer: Elemental Vestment: Reduced Damage. Lowered casting time to 2s from 3s. - Conjuror: Heal Servant: Increased heal amount and power cost. - Conjurer: Petrify: Lowered resistability, increased reuse timer to 45s. - Conjurer: Shattered Terrain: Increased casting time from 2s to 3s, Dazes but does not Stifle. - Enchanter: Blink: Hate reduction amount grows with level. - Coercer: Despotic Mind: Casting time reduced to 1.5 seconds. Power cost reduced. - Coercer: Mind Bend: Restored stun duration to 4 seconds. Casting time reduced to 1.5 seconds. Reuse time increased to 30 seconds. - Coercer: Terrible Awe and Illusionist: Phantasmal Splendor:   * Resistability increased   * Casting time increased to 2s   * Reuse timer increased to 15s.   * Removed number of targets restriction for PvE.   * Removes target from area effects.   * Mesmerize effect can now affect Epic targets. - Coercer: Stupefy   * Functions as a medium- long duration target area effect Stun.   * Resistability increased   * Casting time set to 2.5s   * Reuse time is 45s.   * Stun effect can now affect Epic targets. - Illusionist: Bewilderment:   * Functions as a medium duration target area effect Stun.   * Resistability increased   * Casting time increased to 2s   * Reuse time is 30s.   * Removed number of targets restriction for PvE.   * Stun effect can now affect Epic targets. - Coercer: Psychic Wail:   * Increased reuse to 45s.   * Stun effect can now affect Epic targets. - Coercer: Channel: No longer distributes power from dead players in the group. Damage redueced. - Coercer: Ego Shock: Changed Root into target encounter Daze that always lands. Reuse timer changed to 45s. Damage reduced. Daze effect will affect Epic targets. - Illusionist: Illusory Allies: Reduced damage and health of summoned illusions. - Illusionist: Headache: Changed Mez into Daze that always lands. Reuse timer changed to 30s. Damage redueced. Daze effect will affect Epic targets. - Coercer: Amnesia: Stun effect can now affect Epic targets. - Coercer: Slumber: Mesmerize effect can now affect Epic targets. - Coercer: Silence: Stifle effect can now affect Epic targets. - Coercer: Medusa Gaze: Stun effect can now affect Epic targets. - Illusionist: Sleep: Mesmerize effect can now affect Epic targets. - Illusionist: Convincing Regalia: Mesmerize effect can now affect Epic targets. - Illusionist: Overwhelming Silence: Stifle effect can now affect Epic targets. - Illusionist: Confusion: Stun effect can now affect Epic targets. <font color="#ffcc00"><b>Achievements</b></font> - All Achievements that provided increased casting speed with increased rank received a boost. - Warrior: Wis 2: Belly Smash: Removed additional knockdown effect. - Predator: Agi 2: Point Blank Shot: Reduced stun duration, Recast time lowered to 45s, damage slightly decreased. - Bard: Sta 2: Round Bash: Upgrades affect the knockback stun duration. Increased damage. - Cleric: Sta 2: Hammer Smite: Upgrades affect the knockback stun duration. - Shaman: Sta 2: Crippling Bash: Upgrades affect the knockback stun duration. - Summoner: Sta 2: Shockwave: Upgrades affect the knockback stun duration. - Rogue: Agi 2: Walk the Plank: Added root effect to Hold Direction. - Brawler: Int 2: Eagle Spin: Added root effect to Hold Direction. - Bard: Sta 5: Shield Focus: Properly Roots bard in place, and grants knockdown immunity. - Crusader: Agi 5: Lance: Damage over time effect will now stack with other allies. - Predator: Int 5: Intoxication: Damage over time effect will now stack with other allies. - Shaman: Str 2: Leg Bite: Damage over time effect will now stack with other allies. - Crusader: Str 5: Eidolic Axe: Hate Buff is now hidden. - Summoner: Wis 5: Animist Bond: Corrected amount of power that is drained from the pet when they receive damage. - Sorcerer: Sta 5: Manashield: Corrected amount of power that is drained when receiving damage. - Crusader: Sta 5: Divine Aura: Stoneskin effect works properly. - Cleric: Sta 5: Divine Aura: Stoneskin effect works properly. - Rogue: Wis: Abilities that have an empty offhand requirement also check that the primary weapon is not 2- handed. - Brawler: Int 3: Eagle's Fury: Reduced melee critical chance.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Blackguard on <span class=date_text>05-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:52 PM</span>

[Cowdenic]

<DIV>Uhm As I recall and I will check when I get home, But I think warlock AE Roots were only 8% chance to break on damage. So actually that would be a double nerf.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One for the duration, and one for the % to break.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is agro going to be fixed for warlocks now with removing and shortening stun duration.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has anybody considered the effect of the shortened root durations will have on soloing effectively for Sorcerers?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are there going to be Effective de agro tools in the near future for Sorcerers? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is there any word yet when Warlocks in general are going to be fixed?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Respectfuly,</DIV> <DIV>X</DIV><p>Message Edited by Cowdenicus on <span class=date_text>05-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:28 PM</span>

[Barand]

Before making some general change like : Swarm and Dumbfire pets had their inherent stat bonuses removed from contributing to their damage. This amounts to a 17.5% reduction in their overall damage.can you please look in detail the impact on all classe that rely on it ?Because right now for warden the wolves are there primarly source of DPS. With much less utility than other priest and equal healing power, if we also loose our DPS, there is nothing left for us...<div></div>

[WAPCE]

Why are so many non-Summoner classes have damage reduced and recast timers increased on spells/arts in addition to the control changes? Are Guardians doing to much DPS? Are post-spell-proc-changes Illusionists and Coercers?

[Beghard]

make ice nova do 9342758934x8347532 dmg<div></div>

[Beghard]

If some of these changs dont work so well will you please listen to ppl instead of changing things in another 5 updates?<div></div>

[TaleraRis]

Since it's confirmed the Cheap Shot change is going in, are we going to get a reason why? Cheap Shot is a solo ability. The 6 second duration was not affecting a group's ability to chain-stun mobs and reduce danger during encounters, as we've been given as the reason for the control changes. So why are you reducing the stun duration on a solo ability? <div></div>

[Ishbu]

<DIV>I ask you, why do I have swarm/dumbfire pets?  They take a huge amount of power to cast.  They are easily killed by any ae or assault and they were only useful if they lasted the entire duration.  Now with a significantly longer recast on the summoner ones coupled with a significantly lower dmg, what point is there in ever casting them?  For the time and power cost I can do much better dmg using regular spells.</DIV>

[rcknchr]

<DIV>Why is PBS AA damage being reduced? How does that effect CC? Also is out Precise and Triple line of CA's being looked at. Thay need a serious increase in the damage department.</DIV>

[Gi]

<DIV>please have a look at Shaman: Sta 4 Herbal Expertise, its bugged atm (not working)</DIV>

[Petgroup]

I can't believe my Coercer will be my main again and my Conjuror will only be used for Call of the Hero .............One thing to say my pets were overpowered but u nerfed almost EVERY single Conjuror spell <span>:smileysad:</span><div></div>

[prince_sd]

Good luck in keeping your subscription numbers soe. You will need it very very badly.

[Chabisu]

I've complained about one patch before this, LU13, and that was only after the terrible Test patch which made the game unplayble. Add this one to the list though...My only complaint with the class I'm playing most atm (Coercer) was that our petless DPS was a bit low imo. Now though in a effort to 'help enchanters' you are tossing out a across the board Control change (hitting enchanters as much if not more than any other class) and nerfing enchanter dps. But at least my spells are no longer epic immune...Will I adjust? I'm sure I will if only because I don't plan on missing out on friends. But I seriously have to question what you guys are thinking of.ps, I agree with the thought behind the control changes. There were way to many stuns, stiffles, etc in the game and a change is much better the current route of immune mobs.

[Azmode]

<P>I waited 70 levels to get Sonic Boom, only to have the recast changed to 45 seconds????  What in the name of Jehova is the reasoning behind this?  Very nice kick to the groin on the least played class in game. </P> <P>Petless Coercer DPS is a complete laughing stock as is.  Now we have our best nuke gone, and our level 70 PBAOE had its recast to 45!!!!! seconds.  You guys better make charmable pets in every single nook and crany in this game, because i am a mage firing blanks. </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Unlike other people with high level alts.  I do not have one, and wont hesitate to cancel my subscription.  This will be the 3rd  (THIRD)  time I have had to relearn my subclass since the game got released.    </SPAN> <P><SPAN class=time_text>I do no damage, but now I can stun an epic for 2 seconds.  Woot I cannot wait!!</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Azmodeus on <span class=date_text>05-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:45 PM</span>

[Vilka]

Can you please change Amazing Reflexes on the PVP server.  At the moment its using the PVP ability of casting a 3% hate proc, that locks the encounter onto you in PVE.

[Monfar]

hahaha , this game is becoming a bigger mess every day ...stop SOE before I pee my pants hahahaha

[Asheng]

<hr size="2" width="100%">Brawler: Int 3: Eagle's Fury: Reduced melee critical chance. <hr size="2" width="100%"> Why? <div></div>

[Khandor]

So I guess someone up high decided that instead of nerfing slowly, just nail everyone all in one shot then hmm? Is there ANY good to this update? All I see from this is that someone is having a hissy fit that people can actually do things in this game decently and wants it stopped. <div></div>

[kerel]

<div><blockquote><hr>Beghard wrote:If some of these changs dont work so well will you please listen to ppl instead of changing things in another 5 updates?<div></div><hr></blockquote>They just really don't care what you think, they have your money  if you chose to play or not makes no difference to them, If you think otherwise just look at the number of post concerning those overpowered Troubs and how many times and dev has bothered to throw us a bone for a simple reason why... - Scout: Cheap Shot: slightly reduced power cost. Duration is 4s instead of 6s on standard or weaker opponents. - Troubador: Lullaby: decreased duration, increase reuse timer to 20s. - Troubador: Bria's Entrancing Sonnet: Now works as a very short term charm.   * Reduced casting time to 2.5s.   * Has use of pet commands except to directly call an attack.   * Duration greatly reduced.   * Removed concentration costs.   * Increased reuse time to 60s.Seeing these still being changed just canceled my account for me.  Cause you know i was a BadA$$ troub being able to mez 3-4 non epic mobs and charming something so i could do things own my own.</div>

[Sufu]

This has to be the worst LU ever. What's the [Removed for Content] point in nerfing the stuns of every class? This really affects monks tanking, in the way alot of our CA's have those 2-4sec stun durations getting nerfed to hell, and also nerfing our crit chance.I don't see the light in the balancing, nerf all classes just so you can boost chanters?<div></div>

[Azmode]

Boost chanters??  Think again. Enchanters most likely when all is said and done will have taken the biggest nerf out of this update. 

[Chabisu]

[quote]I don't see the light in the balancing, nerf all classes just so you can boost chanters?[quote]Reread what was posted. They nerfed enchanters as much if not more than everybody else. Don't buy their excuse.

[Zeral498]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div> - Troubador: Lullaby: decreased duration, increase reuse timer to 20s. - Troubador: Bria's Entrancing Sonnet: Now works as a very short term charm.  <b> * Reduced casting time to 2.5s.</b>   * Has use of pet commands except to directly call an attack.   * Duration greatly reduced.   * Removed concentration costs.   * Increased reuse time to 60s. <hr></blockquote>The bolded area is inaccurate (at this moment on Test right now). In Test right now the casting time is 3 seconds. Would it be brought down to 2.5 seconds? And Blackguard, you can just say that the charm is 8 seconds long now. Everyone knows already. EDIT: Typos + word choice.<p>Message Edited by Zeral498 on <span class=date_text>05-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:30 PM</span>

[SideshowBob]

<DIV>I am absolutely disgusted with this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Troubador: Lullaby: decreased duration, increase reuse timer to 20s.<BR>- Troubador: Bria's Entrancing Sonnet: Now works as a very short term charm.<BR>  * Reduced casting time to 2.5s. (down from 6 seconds, ok, nice)<BR>  * Has use of pet commands except to directly call an attack. (we pretty much already had use of all the commands already but attack. What's new?)<BR>  * <FONT color=#ffff00>Duration greatly reduced. (old duration: 7 minutes 30 seconds. NEW DURATION: 8 SECONDS) WORLD RECORD 98% NERFAGE IN ONE FELL SWOOP. Gratz!</FONT><BR>  * Removed concentration costs. (down from 1 slot to 0 -- for a spell that will never be used again)<BR>  * <FONT color=#ffff00>Increased reuse time to 60s</FONT>. (old reuse timer: 5 seconds. NEW REUSE TIMER: <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>1200% longer recast!</FONT></STRONG>  Thanks SOE!!!)<BR></DIV> <DIV>Thanks for gutting one of the absolutely least played classes in the game. Thanks for taking away basicaly our only two options to solo more than a single green mob 10 levels below us. Thanks for removing our ability to do solo quests like the Tears Grifters without extreme pain, tediousness, and full fabled gear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By the way, does someone in charge of writing these nifty little update notes not have the brass ones to actually state that the Charm duration was not just "drastically" reduced, but to post actual numbers *cough* EIGHT SECONDS *cough* - nerfed 98% from its current 7 minutes 30 seconds?  No, nevermind.  After seeing this is<STRONG> still</STRONG> planned on being shoved down the throat of the second-least played class in the game, I know the answer to that question.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks again!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sincerely,</DIV> <DIV>A former Main<BR>A new /afk /autofollow BUFFBOT!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S. - Sorry for the blatant bitterness of this post.  I just am truly sickened that anyone at SOE would hate Troubs so much, and why any person in a position to do so still refuse to explain *why* they nerfed our core abilities like this -- in addition to the absolute hammering we've already taken every other update.</DIV>

[Cowdenic]

<P>Side show,</P> <P> </P> <P>That is exactly how Warlocks feel, execpt they havent been able to get a dev or anybody of importance to post on the warlock forums for over 6 months. I think they are playing the if we ignore them the complaints will go away game. That is sad as some of these people have really tried to help me in the past. </P> <P>I swear it almost feels like there is a rule right now about not speaking about certain class problems.</P>

[Rokjin]

<DIV>As a note, the Swashbuckler Bravado line of self-buffs is still bugged on all PvP Servers. The Annoy proc that locks me to be another player's target for 3 seconds, goes off in PvE, Making it impossible for ANY Swashbuckler that is not tanking to use the line in PvE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a really big problem, as I might as well not have that skill in most circumstances..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have /bugged it atleast two times, and this bug has been in place since the PVP servers opened. Any idea on when this will be fixed?</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Rokjin on <SPAN class=date_text>05-17-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:49 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Rokjin on <span class=date_text>05-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:50 PM</span>

[retro_guy]

<blockquote><hr>Beghard wrote:make ice nova do 9342758934x8347532 dmg<div></div><hr></blockquote>Are you mad??!!! What would you want the damge reduced on Ice Nova? The curent damage of 934563486734673406734056783046340 E4566456456546 is awesome!<div></div>

[Pins]

<DIV>Can you please list the changes that are ON test right now.  Rather than copying your wrong(as you said, they maybe wrong) posted update notes?<BR></DIV> <DIV>- Illusionist: Sleep: Mesmerize effect can now affect Epic targets.</DIV> <DIV>Is now true, as of 15 minutes ago, also the duration was nerfed without being mentioned.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Coercer: Terrible Awe and Illusionist: Phantasmal Splendor:<BR>  * Mesmerize effect can now affect Epic targets.</DIV> <DIV>Is still not true as of the last patch.  Also you did not mention Duration was decreased either.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also failed to mention is that the Stun line got nerfed in duration.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Btw:</DIV> <DIV>- Illusionist: Bewilderment:<BR>  * Functions as a medium duration target area effect Stun.<BR>  * Resistability increased<BR>  * Casting time increased to 2s<BR>  * Reuse time is 30s.<BR>  * Removed number of targets restriction for PvE.<BR>  * Stun effect can now affect Epic targets.</DIV> <DIV>Is a HUGE nerf for this stun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pictures to show this information are listed below, which are EASILY obtained from comparing the Live server to the Test server.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://www.physics.uc.edu/~pinskie/spells/Empty%20Mind.JPG">vs. <IMG src="http://www.physics.uc.edu/~pinskie/spells/Empty%20Mind3.JPG"></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://www.physics.uc.edu/~pinskie/spells/Phantasmal%20Resplendance.JPG">vs. <IMG src="http://www.physics.uc.edu/~pinskie/spells/Phantasmal%20Resplendance2.JPG"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://www.physics.uc.edu/~pinskie/spells/Dazzling%20Array.JPG"> vs. <IMG src="http://www.physics.uc.edu/~pinskie/spells/Dazzling%20Array2.JPG"><BR></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://www.physics.uc.edu/~pinskie/spells/Forsake%20Will.JPG"> vs. <IMG src="http://www.physics.uc.edu/~pinskie/spells/Forsake%20Will2.JPG"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This information was accurate on test as of 12am Eastern on May 18th.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Pinski on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:20 AM</span>

[Petgroup]

<div></div>They are lowering the durations on our mez spells.HOW IS THIS NOT A NERF TO CHANTERS ? This update is such a joke.<div></div>

[Lleinen]

[EDIT] Yep, misquote!!! Was in a rush, sorry, just sick of people trying to say this...<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sufu wrote:<BR> I don't see the light in the balancing, nerf all classes just so you can boost chanters?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You're dumb</P> <P>Im not getting a boost, look again to all the changes...</P> <P>Ppl keep saying we're getting a boost...im sorry, your dumb...2 sec stun on an epic is STUPID compared to the nerfs comming in to us (goto coercer forum, check the topic I started about Control Changes, what do you think? Look at the screenshots and listed nerfs comming to my class and try to f'ing tell me I am getting a boost.</P><p>Message Edited by Lleinen on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:32 AM</span>

[Petgroup]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Lleinen wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Azmodeus wrote:<div></div>Boost chanters??  Think again. Enchanters most likely when all is said and done will have taken the biggest nerf out of this update. <hr></blockquote><p>You're dumb</p><p>Im not getting a boost, look again to all the changes...</p><p>Ppl keep saying we're getting a boost...im sorry, your dumb...2 sec stun on an epic is STUPID compared to the nerfs comming in to us (goto coercer forum, check the topic I started about Control Changes, what do you think? Look at the screenshots and listed nerfs comming to my class and try to f'ing tell me I am getting a boost)</p><hr></blockquote>I think you misunderstood what he said.</div>

[Warpax]

<b>Scout changes:</b> - Scout: Cheap Shot: slightly reduced power cost. Duration is 4s instead of 6s on standard or weaker opponents.<font color="#ff3399"><font size="4">Either this needs to be changed back or you either need to reduce the cast time on all scout</font></font> <font size="4"><font color="#ff3399">class Sneaks. Cheap Shot is a </font></font><u><font color="#ffcc33" size="4"><i><i>necessary</i></i></font></u><font color="#ffcc33" size="4"><font color="#ff0099"> ability for any solo play and with these changes you have effectively destroyed this play tactic.</font><i><i><font color="#ff0099"></font></i></i></font><div></div>

[Kraks_Aforty]

I'm predicting it now:This will be the worst patch ever.STOP TRYING TO REDO THE [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] GAME!  People are generally happy with the MECHANICS, just get the content and items fixed and we'll be golden.<div></div>

[suffe]

thanks for posting so quickly :smileyhappy:

[Riversideblues]

<i>brigands get one more aoe, and no debuffs!nerf rangers meleemake guardians good again becuase they suck so muchmake inquis the best raid dpsnerf conj but not necroswizards need more healsmake paladins not use sheildswarlocks shouldnt be able to invis, or dps but have 2000% runspeed</i>!!!!<u><b></b></u><div></div>

[Larasan]

i am so happy about these changes ...I dont need my Scout Pet .. who needs damage ? Raids ? Solo ? noooooo.. why..And Necros do the same damage like Conjuror ... sure ... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />please remove the damage lifetap spell Abate Life - not neededI like this update sooo much.Are we really doing sooooo much damage ? Is our scout pet much more powerful than other classes ?I dont think soAfter LU 25 we have no Lifetap no FD and our pets are dotsBut ... i think ... after LU 26 - its time to say good byefrustrated

[Vazi]

I often thought that the company I worked for was staffed with morons.  Apparently its spreading.

[kartikeya]

<P>*sighs*</P> <P> I can't speak for other classes, because I don't know how they work, but I cannot fathom a reason for the ranger changes, and so soon after you determined it was necessary to give us yet another skill to keep the mobs at bay (which wasn't listed, unless I missed it, is that still nerfed? It was a few days ago). I have tried, but I can't come up with any logical explanation. Most of these skills are used only in solo combat. Many of them are already buggy or underpowered or both. I can probably see surveil, if people were pulling things from too far away with it, but everything else makes no sense to me.</P> <P>Cheap shot is worthless on heroic encounters. The stun is only two seconds and breaks on any damage at all. This is not a skill I have ever used in a group. The stun is also only two seconds on solo tagged, single ^ mobs. It's enough to get off one positional attack if you're very fast. On solo mobs with no arrows or down arrows (the now proposed change) it lasts six seconds, which allows us to chain a few position attacks or pull back for an arrow shot or two. Most solo mobs in KoS are ^ arrow mobs.</P> <P>Thorny trap is very buggy, and usually breaks on damage. It's size has already been reduced once (without notes).</P> <P>The lunge line lasts four seconds. If this change is still in, it's been nerfed. This is the spell we've only just recieved. It allowed us, if we used fast, fast casting arrow attacks, to get off two ranged attacks, IF we didn't have any lag and moved instantly to do so. This was, I recall, what it was originally stated as being meant to do.</P> <P>Point Blank Shot? What more can I say about it? At rank four, the minimum required to move on to the next AP tier, it is only 2.8 seconds long, as it was nerfed when we received the updates to fix what was done in LU #20. This is barely long enough to get off one shot, and only if I use my fastest casting one. Most of the time, even with no lag, I'm not able to pull it off. The damage is pitiful--282-470, again at rank four. For those of you who think further ranks will make it better, the stun duration on rank five is 3.2 seconds, and the max possible damage 538. Damage and stun duration are being nerfed. You can leave out the shorter recast time, I won't be using this to stun anything. I won't be able to get off a shot at all. This is really sad, as this was honestly my favorite ability prior to its first post-Beta nerfing. It let me get into range and fire an arrow or two. Now? I'm not sure where I'll use it.</P> <P>Surveil? I hope we can still use it at range with our bows. That's all I care about. Evade, our other aggro reducing CA, only works in melee range.</P> <P>I've said about all that I can say on this subject. I'm just very disappointed.</P>

[agress]

Well, as someone who plays a lot of alts, there aren't many positive changes here. I do have a coercer, but he's only level 46, and I dont raid much, so losing our 2nd root is the most noticable nerf, at least for how I play.  Not sure why our DPS was hit, even with a full set of master spells (they are cheap), we do very little damage.My necro, at level 60, is getting completely spanked.  Not that I didnt expect it though, he was doing well before.  His main downside was that master spells were almost unattainable due to the popularity of the class.   If any did appear on the broker, they were way out of the reach of my budget.  So, our class-defining abilities (pets, swarm/dumbfire pets) are getting kicked in the rear.My bruiser, at level 60, loses a stun, and gets nerfs to the other stuns.  Again, a powerful class now, its probably expected.  I could tank well, and if I wasn't tanking, I could dps pretty well.  Doubt I'll tank much anymore, and will stick to dps.My warlock, at level 62, will lose most of his solo capability.  Not that he was any fun to solo with in the first place, now he'll remain a group-only class.  I already die a lot soloing with this char, I would die even more after these changes.  Maybe allow us to wear plate armor that gives us immune to interrupts ?My guardian, at level 48, with the intercept changes, might see a bit more playtime.  I consider the intercept changes to be "fixes" though rather than enhancements.  Our power drain was useless, glad it was changed to a real debuff.  Still, none of this is earth shattering.My assassin, at level 45, is largely unaffected by this, except for cheap shot.  I hate soloing as this character anyways, so this doesn't really affect me.  Really though, why nerf cheap shot on solo mobs?  If this is to prevent chain stunning in a group, this would only affect 4-mob groups for the most part.  Doesn't seem to make sense, and the heroic stun was already really short.My fury, at level 45, also is relatively unaffected.  My troubador, my newest character at level 28 or so, will probably get shelved.  Maybe i'll buy up all the tier 4 and tier 5 masters for 5 silver once they become available shoud they decide to breath some life into this class later on.  He already was just a buff/mana machine, not really able to contribute in other ways, and was a horrible soloing class.  Basically losing our charm altogether (which is why I rolled a troub) just makes me completely lose interest.  It seems that this update is intended to introduce difficulty into the game.  There just aren't enough positive changes that outweigh the nerfs, across the board.  While I will stick it out, I'm sure many won't.agressivUnrest Server<div></div>

[Sunlei]

<DIV>- Troubador: Lullaby: decreased duration, increase reuse timer to 20s.<BR>- Troubador: Bria's Entrancing Sonnet: Now works as a very short term charm.<BR> <B> * Reduced casting time to 2.5s.</B><BR>  * Has use of pet commands except to directly call an attack.<BR>  * Duration greatly reduced.<BR>  * Removed concentration costs.<BR>  * Increased reuse time to 60s.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Totally took what was most fun about the Troub. class(to me) and killed it dead. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>* 8 second charm-60 second reuse*  there goes another character into the delete heap...soon I'll be down to the 15 dollar plan.</DIV>

[Interce]

    Ok.....You know what would be really nice. Its quite simple actually.How about being more creative with your Group and Raid encounters making them more challenging, requiring classes to use their abilities to their maximum rather than constantly NERFING ALL THE TIME!!Ive never seen a game nerf like this. Its going to create alot of bad sentiment.Dont make characters weaker, make encounters harder.<div></div>

[Snublefot]

Worst Upgrade Ever Reward given by Snuble. Maybe we'll get a bonus weekend out of that too?

[Pa1nfool]

<DIV>You know ur wrong when you put ur hand in somebody else's cookie jar (Vanguard) because you know this game is going to wreck havoc on your player base and take your money.  This patch is ridiculous, I can not imagine 1 person coming in here and posting anything positive about what your doing (now that I've said that I'm sure some fanboy troll will have to post up).  I sincerely hope that you loose at least 1/4 of your base players and that Vanguard eats you alive.  The only sad part is that no matter what we do to get away from your sorry [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'s, poor development (non stop nerfs), lack of customer care and customer service (you obviously don't give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about your customers) we cant.  Seriously considering skipping the Vanguard game purely based on that fact that you have your hand in it and will generate a profit from it, and just maybe influence the game play.  You should just call this patch LU13p2.  When will you fix the numerous issues you have with bugs and the world and just leave us alone after we bust our [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'s to get to know how the class works.  So [Removed for Content] frustrating its not even funny anymore.  100% ridiculous.  Still waiting for the thanks for playing the beta msg, and a game launch date of a finish product EQ3? How many pages of hate does it take to get you to understand.  Somebody pick up the bat phone and call somebody that can do something about this, for the luv of Jeebus.</DIV>

[TaleraRis]

<blockquote><hr>Intercept wrote:    Ive never seen a game nerf like this. Its going to create alot of bad sentiment.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Nah, the charm nerf in EQ Live was way worse. Although this one will affect me quite a bit since I solo. And the problem with making encounters harder is trying to balance things around all the different levels of gear they have available in the game. If they make things too hard, it's prohibitive to all except thsoe who have top end gear. If they make them too easy, then content is trivialized and that's a situation they try to avoid.<div></div>

[TaleraRis]

<blockquote><hr>Pa1nfool wrote:<div></div> <div>You know ur wrong when you put ur hand in somebody else's cookie jar (Vanguard) because you know this game is going to wreck havoc on your player base and take your money.  This patch is ridiculous, I can not imagine 1 person coming in here and posting anything positive about what your doing (now that I've said that I'm sure some fanboy troll will have to post up).  I sincerely hope that you loose at least 1/4 of your base players and that Vanguard eats you alive.  The only sad part is that no matter what we do to get away from your sorry [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'s, poor development (non stop nerfs), lack of customer care and customer service (you obviously don't give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about your customers) we cant.  Seriously considering skipping the Vanguard game purely based on that fact that you have your hand in it and will generate a profit from it, and just maybe influence the game play.  You should just call this patch LU13p2.  When will you fix the numerous issues you have with bugs and the world and just leave us alone after we bust our [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'s to get to know how the class works.  So [Removed for Content] frustrating its not even funny anymore.  100% ridiculous.  Still waiting for the thanks for playing the beta msg, and a game launch date of a finish product EQ3? How many pages of hate does it take to get you to understand.  Somebody pick up the bat phone and call somebody that can do something about this, for the luv of Jeebus.</div><hr></blockquote>You missed the part where Vanguard is going to be co-launched with SoE apparently.<div></div>

[Pa1nfool]

um im not sure if you missed the parts where i said they had their hand in it right off the get go, or they will generate a profit from it, or we cant get away from SOE because they are involved in it. Could be wrong maybe you were trying to be funny but i might of missed that.<p>Message Edited by Pa1nfool on <span class=date_text>05-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:49 PM</span>

[Magh]

<DIV>Dont want to offend anyone, but I like the changes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I was first seriously [Removed for Content], when I thought they'll make mezz breakable by casting debuffs and reactives, but now I am cool again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The only thing I would complain, is the decrease of DPS, but I can live with it, I guess..</DIV>

[Suraklin]

<DIV>I feel sorry for all the mobs in the game. They're gonna be wondering why no players are trying to kill them anymore. I'm sorry mobs, the SOE devs decided to screw with the game too much and [Removed for Content] too many people off so most of them quit. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I honestly think this is almost up there with the NGE debacle in SWG. Too bad no good MMO's coming out anytime soon to go to because if I don't like these changes I will have no choice but to quit all MMO's. I pay to play a fun game. If the game becomes unfun I don't give SOE anymore of my money. You guys aren't exactly rolling in the money from subscriptions either. Do you really want to lose even more money by implementing this insane LU? Is Smed pointing a gun at you guys to come up with this crap or did you actually think it up yourselves? </DIV><p>Message Edited by Suraklin on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:21 AM</span>

[DobyMT]

AhhhhhWell, at least its not just summoners having to defend against the incredibly insane SoE BoT coming to destroy our fun. I believe the Langoliers is what we called our supervisors when I was in Iraq, cause the place sucked SO badly that we would find incredibly ingenious ways to occupy our time. Well, the "Langoliers," seeing us not doing the pre-dictated boring sit in room and wait till shift time routine punished us, and sent several of us to different sites on different bases, completely destroying any little fun we could squeeze out of our time there..... sounds familiar to me again now. I agree, there is nothing constructive about this update. Moorguard can post all day long about defining roles and his load of crap, but we all see it. These developers have seen us having fun finding new ways to do things, umm as Moorguard put it, defining the classes ourselves, and the entire PLAYERBASE gets a shaft. Well, I'll hang around, I have friends, and certain people I am very close to...but as far as playing hardcore again, doubtful. The game just isn't going to be fun after this update.

[Mulilla]

<P>CAN SOME DEV, MOD, OR WHATEVER TELL ME WHAT THE [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] ARE TROUBADOURS FOR??</P> <P>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], THEY EVEN NINJA CHANGED THE CLASS DESCRIPTION IN EQPLAYERS!!!</P> <P> </P>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Suraklin wrote:<BR> <DIV> Is Smed pointing a gun at you guys to come up with this crap or did you actually think it up yourselves? </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Suraklin on <SPAN class=date_text>05-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:21 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>:smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>BOOOM HEAD SHOT.</P> <P>Man i had a good laugh here.</P> <P>Ive currently cancelled my 3 accounts, sorry SoE its been a fun 7 years with you and all but enough is just simply enough. Friend who left the gaming world of SoE years ago tried to warn me but i stuck it outi n good faith and loyalty to SoE that they would one day create something decent, this game is just getting worse and worse by the Live Update.<BR></P>

[Andu]

I was hoping these notes would have had some changes for the better in them. How wrong I was. From a Coercer standpoint: a) Stop messing with Sonic Boom - it is the only spell we have that does any kind of damage. 45s recast is plain ridiculous and why the nerf to the damage? What the hell has that got to do with control changes? b) Stop messing with Ego Torrent line - it is the only spell with a sensible recast that does more than scratch an enemy. If you want to give us an AoE daze line, put it on our AoE spell line, Demoralizing Gaze. That spell is so pants as it currently stands, the change would be welcome. We need this spell if we are to stand any chance pf killing an enemy without a charmed pet (which we cannot always have now you have seen fit to go through the game making pets mobs uncharmable, apparently at whim). c) If you stated clearly you were not touching Enchanter CC abilities - why on earth have our durations and recast timers been nerfed to oblivion on all our spells? I could go on but it has been said already. Just please rethink this, right now you are nerfing the class badly, not improving it. <div></div>

[Grycks]

Troubadors reduced to an 8 second charm...un[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ingbelievable...

[Lordviperscorpian]

Dirge: Lanet's Excruciating Scream: changed into short duration Daze effect that causes disease damage when it expires. The amount of damage was reduced. Reuse time increased to 30sWhy is this spells recast time being increased, and damage reduced? On top of that we lose the agil debuff as well?  This is over nerfing this spell more than ever.  We only get to use it 1 time a fight as is, now your lowing the dmg and making it longer to recast for an 8 second daze!? Im sorry but it doesnt add up.  Tweak more.<div></div>

[Unfeter]

<P>HEY SOE.. REMEMBER SWG?  Looks like ill be leaving this game too.</P> <P>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ING LEAVE OUR CLASSES ALONE, for gods sake.</P>

[aislynn00]

<DIV>Personally, I am very much looking forward to the patch.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For me personally, my damage interception abilities, in particular Sentry Watch, will actually become something I use every day in groups, which is something I and many other guardians have been yearning for ever since LU13.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are, granted, a few mistakes in there, in particular the senseless troubador 8-second charm spell and the Crumble damage reduction, but the good <EM>far</EM> outweighs the bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the game as a whole, it is refreshing to see that the whole stun-locking issue is, at long last, being dealth with.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Enchanters being nerfed?  People can be so blind at times.  Just because individual spells are being taken down a notch or three doesn't mean that the <EM>class</EM> with those spells is being nerfed.  Changes don't occur in a vacuum, you know.  When you decrease the duration of stuns, stifles, mez'es, and dazes across the board and increase reuse times to the point that most mobs will be unaffected by any form of control spells for most of the duration of a fight, you are, in fact, <EM>strengthening</EM> the two classes that are have the most control spells, no matter whether their spells have been reduced somewhat in potency.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a mob is already incapacitated 80% - 90% of the time by an enchanterless group, adding an enchanter which is able to maintain control abilities on a mob 75% of the time isn't going to change much in that regard.  On the other hand, if the mob is only under the effect of control spells 20% of the time without an enchanter, a "nerfed" enchanter which could control that mob an additional 50% of the time would have a <EM>much</EM> more dramatic impact on incoming DPS.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nerfs do <EM>not</EM> occur in a vacuum.  Wake up and take a look at the big picture for a change:  spell nerfs notwithstanding, the upcoming LU promises a <EM>massive</EM> utility and general desirability increase if you play an enchanter and like to group or raid.</DIV>

[Laiina]

<DIV>I really don't see the overall purpose for many of the nerfs (and I see almost zero improvements). Yes, a few spells and abilities might be overpowered, but this seems to be aimed at reducing nearly all classes dps by around 5-10% overall against everything.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IMO, the main effect of this will be to increase the dependence on gear to survive encounters - since it will now take longer to kill mobs, you will need to survive longer, thus everyone will need gear upgrades just to stay even.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And another issue that has NOT been mentioned - I just chose "Swarm of Rats" as my Green Croos Master II upgrade. Since that spell is being reduced in damage by 17.5%, can I get a refund on that and choose a new one?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Laiina on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:55 AM</span>

[Unfeter]

You know.. sometimes challenging IS NOT fun.  And I predict that the game will no longer be fun.

[enrique_to]

<div></div>So Warlocks group root break chance increased from 12% to 15%?Sight...It's looks like the most important LU since LU 13. I do not belive I'll quit cause this LU. And Warlocks are nerfed badly. I Just think we must see this new LU go live. I do not think It's a good LU. Game will be harder to play. Wi'll mobs have a similar nerf? I do not think so. Now It's looks like only player with the best stuff will have sucess. What about non ubers chars? May be ubber guilds start to be bored cause the do not find EQ2 enougth challenging. As a non uber player I find EQ2 challenging enougth. I do not find it a ease game. Most times we have situation over control, sure, but if you make a mistake you can find yourseft bitting the dust. Now with the new LU what's going to happen?    If you add most of the times you'll be just death meet. (Group roots and stun decreased durations and group mezz increased mobs resistance) Too bad It's really ease to have a add on EQ2.    Did you really want who's really happy with the new LU...? Menders!!! they are in heaven!!!  

[Jakimo]

What I don't understand, and what any business should be able to answer, is this:  How does this change improve the value of the product (the game) as perceived by the customers (the players)?  If this were clearly explained, perhaps the changes would be more palatable.

[Sir Blig]

<DIV>- Troubador: Lullaby: decreased duration, increase reuse timer to 20s.<BR>- Troubador: Bria's Entrancing Sonnet: Now works as a very short term charm.<BR> <B> * Reduced casting time to 2.5s.</B><BR>  * Has use of pet commands except to directly call an attack.<BR>  * Duration greatly reduced.<BR>  * Removed concentration costs.<BR>  * Increased reuse time to 60s.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Totally took what was most fun about the Troub. class(to me) and killed it dead. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>* 8 second charm-60 second reuse*  there goes another character into the delete heap...soon I'll be down to the 15 dollar plan.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Minor add, with it being only 8 sec with "Has use of pet commands except to directly call an attack" cant call an attack????</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So we trigger charm, 2-3 secs later the mob comes over and drools all over us, a few short secs later the spell ends leavinf one VERY hacked of mob standing right next to us and on an instant mission to kill us, woops one dead Troub,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Only dim light on this one is that we can remove the spell from the hot bars because we wont ever be using it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mez will be along the same line, with re-cast = duration we wont even be able to keep one target mezed, and the sec that mez ends we will have one ticked of nasty running us down.</DIV>

[Arathy]

<div></div>The thing I loved most about my bruiser was having some decent CC..Looks like it's time to betray and hope you guys haven't [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed up monks too.Maybe you should listen to the vast outcry of people against this change as opposed to Moorguard's "we know what we're doing - you don't"* line of thinking.  Just give it a rest with the major changes.  The game is fine for the most part.  If you want to change stuff, why not start hiring new people to your art team.* This wasn't an exact quote.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Fentan99 on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:40 AM</span>

[KongstadPS]

<P><FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>- Ranger: Thorny Trap: Duration of Root effect is reduced.</STRONG></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Do you know that Thorny Trap does <STRONG>NOT</STRONG> work on <STRONG>ANY PvP servers?</STRONG> </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Link --> <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=31219" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=31219</A> <---</FONT></P>

[minh]

SOE if u have to much time on your hand FFS fix those bugs in game atm and stop NERFING the game. How many more nerf do you need to do before you are happy with the game, because most of us is happy so what is the problem with you guys?? if people are happy why change stuff.

[Tro]

<DIV> <P>For those of you wanting the dev's to either make changes or scrap LU 24 .. well.. It's too late they have made their decision on how to "fix" Summoners/Enchanters and all Stuns etc.. The decision has been made. </P> <P>The direction the game goes has nothing to do with what we (The paying customer) say or feel (regardless if the Dev's believe we do) . The proof is obvious when you read the latest TU24 changes. The summoner changes are much worse than I ever imagined and the Enchanters get a big ole slap in the face again and to top it off, all stuns/roots are nerfed. .. What are they thinking? Who is running the show in the Dev department?</P> <P>I had only one toon prior to LU 13. A guardian and we all know what happened there. I roll a Conjuror and well here I am again. I agree the Conjuror's needed some DPS reduction but in true SoE fashion, they took the largest f'ing nerf bat and came out swinging. I have no idea when the swinging will stop. I stuck with EQ2 after LU 13 and "relearned" my "new" Guardian but it is painfully obvious to me that we are still paying for the decision the SoE management made back prior to Nov 04 when they rushed the game to release knowing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] well it was not working as intended. </P> <P>But on the bright side, they are still "Fixing" it aren't they? It IS getting better isn't it?  I have to ask the obvious question .. When will it end? </P> <P>I'm so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] disgusted with it all... </P></DIV>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>Thnx for the fix of call of storms (I at least I hope it got fixed), and the change to irr swarm sounds good too it will be at least useful at times tho the recast should be 45 secs imo.</P> <P>That aside this update isnt a nerf to my class as we didnt have any control spells whatsoever, but I still feel for you guys hope this update gets altered some, but thats why it is on the test server i spose.</P>

[Tro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> aislynn00 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Personally, I am very much looking forward to the patch.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For me personally, my damage interception abilities, in particular Sentry Watch, will actually become something I use every day in groups, which is something I and many other guardians have been yearning for ever since LU13.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are, granted, a few mistakes in there, in particular the senseless troubador 8-second charm spell and the Crumble damage reduction, but the good <EM>far</EM> outweighs the bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the game as a whole, it is refreshing to see that the whole stun-locking issue is, at long last, being dealth with.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>Enchanters being nerfed?  People can be so blind at times.  Just because individual spells are being taken down a notch or three doesn't mean that the <EM>class</EM> with those spells is being nerfed.  Changes don't occur in a vacuum, you know.  When you decrease the duration of stuns, stifles, mez'es, and dazes across the board and increase reuse times to the point that most mobs will be unaffected by any form of control spells for most of the duration of a fight, you are, in fact, <EM>strengthening</EM> the two classes that are have the most control spells, no matter whether their spells have been reduced somewhat in potency.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a mob is already incapacitated 80% - 90% of the time by an enchanterless group, adding an enchanter which is able to maintain control abilities on a mob 75% of the time isn't going to change much in that regard.  On the other hand, if the mob is only under the effect of control spells 20% of the time without an enchanter, a "nerfed" enchanter which could control that mob an additional 50% of the time would have a <EM>much</EM> more dramatic impact on incoming DPS.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nerfs do <EM>not</EM> occur in a vacuum.  Wake up and take a look at the big picture for a change:  spell nerfs notwithstanding, the upcoming LU promises a <EM>massive</EM> utility and general desirability increase if you play an enchanter and like to group or raid.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You have no clue.. Roll a Enchanter after LU24, attended a few raids and come back and post your thoughts.  <BR><p>Message Edited by Trook on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:38 AM</span>

[Tro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Suraklin wrote:<BR> <DIV> Is Smed pointing a gun at you guys to come up with this crap or did you actually think it up yourselves? </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Suraklin on <SPAN class=date_text>05-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:21 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>:smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>BOOOM HEAD SHOT.</P> <P>Man i had a good laugh here.</P> <P>Ive currently cancelled my 3 accounts, sorry SoE its been a fun 7 years with you and all but enough is just simply enough. Friend who left the gaming world of SoE years ago tried to warn me but i stuck it outi n good faith and loyalty to SoE that they would one day create something decent, this game is just getting worse and worse by the Live Update.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I am going to hold off a bit and give LU 24 a shot as much as I am against the current changes proposed. I have only played EQ1 and EQ2 and if after a while LU24 goes live and  no changes are made then I'm outta here also.. </P> <P>Either way, I will definatley be giving Vanguard a serious look unless of course SoE goes from Publisher to Developer. <BR></P>

[Elerri]

Wow ...I think it is very hard to keep an overview when so many changes are done in one patch. Are you sure the classes will be where you want them after this? I would smuch more prefer changes coming in a few smaller patches - only a few days apart - and allowing for a quick reaction if something specific to the last patch does not work out or changes things more than planed.It will be interesting to see how this works ou, especially as there are some changes that are realy difficult to explain to myself (i.e. Dirge's Scream changed.. huh??). It would be nice to get a post explaining for each change why it was made - or class whise what the goal was.

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WAPCE wrote:<BR>Why are so many non-Summoner classes have damage reduced and recast timers increased on spells/arts in addition to the control changes? Are Guardians doing to much DPS? Are post-spell-proc-changes Illusionists and Coercers?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>LOL so now every negative change should only affect summoners?</P> <P>LU24 is adjusting many aspects of the game and ALL classes..it is not the "Nerf Summoner Update" no matter how giddy that may make some people.</P>

[Zyphius]

So, not only are moy roots being nerfed to useless, stuns being nerfed beyond useless, but Protoferno and FoR are being nerfed as well?? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?? Are you trying to make us Pre-LU13 wizards or something???

[Amocus]

As a conjuror (main), Pally, Ranger, Warden, and Coercer... I'm not to thrilled with most of these changes. Actually, they suck. But I'll wait and see how they play out.If I stop having fun, I'll cancel my subscription and go elsewhere, if I still have fun, I'll keep playing. It's all any of us as consumers' can do really. We can consume the product or not. Being a paying customer of anything doesnt' give us any rights at all in the design of said product or in how a company as run. All we can do is give them our money, or not. Our choice.That said, maybe, just maybe, fights won't be over so fast anymore. Maybe, just maybe, the dev's are trying to give the mob's a fighting chance?<div></div>

[Andi]

my illu got a f***ing nerfage, i´m absolutly frustrated about the dmg reduce and increased recasttimers by lowered duration.why are you downgrading a class which always was , one of the lowest dps classes (scouts, mages). nice work at all, i will punish my char to dead, if there will be no more further UPGRADES<div></div>

[Daz]

<P>Aislynn00 -</P> <P> </P> <P>In your post you question whether Enchanters were "nerfed" and suggested people were blind for not being able to see the quality in the LU. Inspired by your post I reread the update notes.</P> <P> </P> <P>I see now that we got one positive change I sailed right past in reading the first time. </P> <P>Blink our hate reducer will now grow with us as we level.</P> <P>Oh my I am so thrilled I just can't stand it. That makes all the other adjustments with this post welcome. We have increased cast timers on our damage spells. Our mez timers had their recast times increased and our duration on mezzes has been decreased. However, BLINK now scales in hate reduction so woooooohoooooo!</P> <P>In seriousness the ability to mez an epic or to stun an epic seems to have a much heftier pricetag then I would be comfortable paying. I hope they adjust these plans before they hit live.</P> <P> </P> <P>So please do not suggest that I am blind for not seeing the positive in this update.</P> <P> </P> <P>Thanks</P> <P>Eiline 70 Coercer</P>

[Beldin_]

LU#25- For better class balance each combat art of each class now does 1 damage as app 1, 2 damage as adept 1 and 3 damage as Master 1 -Controlspells are totally removed as they make things too complicated.- For better balance all classes will get 10 hps and 10 mps per level, items don't haveany stat bonusses anymore because that makes things too complicated.- thats it .. the final balance has been done.have funSOE<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Beldin_ on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:10 AM</span>

[Icecreamman]

Clearly SoE has thought this through.  Right ?  If you as me I think they are drinking on the job.  In one day there are 3 pages of posts where the people disagree with the changes, yup the people who right your paycheck.  You say you have a broader outlook on the game then the mass of the people so you do what is right for the game.  Well I feel you are wrong, your outlook is so out there you are forgetting to look right in front of your face, your customers are standing there waving their hands.This LU is as bad as LU13.  Since LU13 came out the troubador class has had a nerf on EVERY single patch.  How is that looking out for the future of the game !<div></div>

[Mantua1]

<P>And with all this change to the players are the mobs going to remain the same or do they get nerfed too? Some mob in the Halls of seeing and Lyceum of Abhorance have millions of hit points.</P> <P>This LU is gonna sting like rubbing alcohol on an open cut. Yea the pain ges away  after a little bit but it still stings.</P>

[aislynn00]

<DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jakimo wrote:<BR> What I don't understand, and what any business should be able to answer, is this:  How does this change improve the value of the product (the game) as perceived by the customers (the players)?  If this were clearly explained, perhaps the changes would be more palatable.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Any game which can be beaten with minimal skill isn't a healthy game no matter how you look at it.  You may experience a "Cool!  I'm so buff!" reaction the first few times you trivialize an encounter, but after that, it becomes boring, and boring is bad if you are a business and want your customers to keep coming back for more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is also bad for players who derive enjoyment from a good challenge, since that challenge is becoming more and more marginalized.  These days, it is an uncommon occurrence that I die tanking in Halls of Fate, and when I do die, it is invariably because a mob finally manages to get past all the stuns and stifles long enough to get off an ability that one-shots me for 15K damage or the like.  Is that fun?  No.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One-shot abilities exist solely because it is currently all but impossible to hurt a tank in a group with access to several stifles, dazes, and stuns.  Since the mob is subjected to player character control abilities most of the time and thus can't kill any even semi-decent tank via normal means, the game designers have to make those rare few seconds of mob freedom count: enter, Vanquishing Blow, Hammer Fist, et al.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problems that arise as a result are many: success becomes a matter of luck more than skill; tank mitigation and HP matter much less since you die automatically whenever those one-shot abilities land; aggro control becomes less important overall since the controlled mob has a hard time killing whoever has aggro.  Heck, taken to extremes, you don't really need a fighter any longer, as long as you have enough control spells in the group.  That certainly isn't doing good things for class balance.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does anyone remember the "good old days" of EQ1, back when pets made better tanks than the average paladin, shadow knight, or warrior, causing those classes to be undesired in many groups?  Or how about aggro kiting on the Plane of Fire, where DPS was all that mattered while healing and tanking ability had become irrelevant?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For quite a while now, control spells have been rendering healing mostly irrelevant vs blue- and even-conning heroics.  Even yellow-conning mobs can be taken on without healing.  Monks have proven it, and solo at that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, to answer your question:  The developers are nerfing control abilities because they are at the root of a lot of class imbalance and take away the challenge element from the game, forcing the introduction of one-shot abilities.  They are nerfing all control abilities because, quite frankly, that is what is best for the long-term health of the game.</DIV></DIV>

[Ishbu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> aislynn00 wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For quite a while now, control spells have been rendering healing mostly irrelevant vs blue- and even-conning heroics.  Even yellow-conning mobs can be taken on without healing.  Monks have proven it, and solo at that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, to answer your question:  The developers are nerfing control abilities because they are at the root of a lot of class imbalance and take away the challenge element from the game, forcing the introduction of one-shot abilities.  They are nerfing all control abilities because, quite frankly, that is what is best for the long-term health of the game.</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That is a load of bull [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Could killing be done by a group using "control" spells without a healer?  Yes, but was it efficient at all?  Hell no.  </P> <P>If you put together an xp group with no healer, I would leave and tell you I could solo a templar faster than your group will get XP.  Its a giant waste of time, and you wont be defeating anything of any challenge at all without any healing capabilites.  Ok guys, its been a minute, are you ready for the next blue con ^^^?  </P> <P>That monk line is a bunch of crap too.  You do realize monks have a big magical ward and a big percentage heal right?  If the monks are able to solo ^^^ yellow con mobs all day with no healing, one after the one, nerf them, not every class with a stun (btw I dont buy it, even the best monk will have considerable downtime trying to solol yellow con ^^^ with any regularity).</P> <P>This LU is doing one thing, reverting many classes back to pre LU13 status.  I ask SOE, what possible reason to do many classes even have for logging in after LU24 hits?  I prefer raiding and for my class the only thing that is happening is I am being 100% nerfed in this regard, so why should anyone like me bother?  Ever hear the phrase, if you close a door you should open a window?  All I am asking for is that there is one thing for me to look forward to in this update.  No matter what, I will still hate the LU as a whole, but at least ONE little good thing could come of it, but instead basically EVERYTHING I do is being nerfed.<BR></P>

[ag]

<blockquote><hr>aislynn00 wrote:... The developers are nerfing control abilities because they are at the root of a lot of class imbalance and take away the challenge element from the game, forcing the introduction of one-shot abilities.  They are nerfing all control abilities because, quite frankly, that is what is best for the long-term health of the game.<hr></blockquote>Aislynn, did you miss the part in Blackguards post where they're negatively adjusting damage, too, for many many spells and combat arts? And where there's no other post from a developer stating that they would, or why they are? Could you please enlight us as to why that is? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Wrapye]

<div><blockquote><hr>Pinski wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div>Can you please list the changes that are ON test right now.  Rather than copying your wrong(as you said, they maybe wrong) posted update notes?</div> <div>- Illusionist: Sleep: Mesmerize effect can now affect Epic targets.</div> <div>Is now true, as of 15 minutes ago, also the duration was nerfed without being mentioned.</div> <div> </div> <div>- Coercer: Terrible Awe and Illusionist: Phantasmal Splendor:  * Mesmerize effect can now affect Epic targets.</div> <div>Is still not true as of the last patch.  Also you did not mention Duration was decreased either.</div> <div> </div> <div>Also failed to mention is that the Stun line got nerfed in durationActually, he did mention it.  It is just worded rather vaguely: - Adjusted all Root, Stifle, Stun, Mesmerize, and Fear durations to have consistent linear progression in durations with level increase.Evidently the durations previously did not have a 'consistent linear progression'.  Of course, what you chose for the slope of the linear progression will determine the durations, and they decided that the slope was too steep before.</div></blockquote></div>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> aislynn00 wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jakimo wrote:<BR> What I don't understand, and what any business should be able to answer, is this:  How does this change improve the value of the product (the game) as perceived by the customers (the players)?  If this were clearly explained, perhaps the changes would be more palatable.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Any game which can be beaten with minimal skill isn't a healthy game no matter how you look at it.  You may experience a "Cool!  I'm so buff!" reaction the first few times you trivialize an encounter, but after that, it becomes boring, and boring is bad if you are a business and want your customers to keep coming back for more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>edit to long to qoute</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok but taking a broad view of these changes does the exact opposite and actually makes raid content easier. But group/Solo content harder. For instances the Broad changes:</P> <P>Overall summoner dps decreased</P> <P>CC for all heroic content decreased</P> <P>Enc can now stun/stilfe/daze/mezz epics</P> <P>Fighters can now absorb damage using intercepts</P> <P>ok whats the net effect of these changes......</P> <P>First since all stuns and stilfes charms mezzes dazes and fears are gettign reduced duration across the board soloing for any class that utilises these will be affected. .... No one complained that soloing was ever to easy maybe for a few classes like summoners or brawlers in which case this change is not bad..... Effect soloing harder</P> <P>Again the above CC changes will also affect heroic content making standard fights alot harder while many named in Kos were already immune to stifles stuns etc. Standard mobs like the zerkers in HoF will be alot harder now... imho this is not a bad change.... effect heroic harder</P> <P>now the problem comes in regard to epic content.</P> <P>Ok the overall raid dps will drop a little bit because of the nerfs to soem classes dps (summoners mainly), mobs have a ton of Hp's. the problem is alot of Hp's do not make a raid harder just longer and boring.. so in effect this does not increase raid difficulty. BUT now we have enchanters able to stifle then stun then daze an epic. reducing the epics dps a few seconds every min or so. You have enchanters able to mezz a raid mob for 12 secs every 1.5 min or so. Easy enuff to pull mezz and debuff a mob now. You have fighter sable to absorb damage from the tank alot easier across raids using new intercepts. All in All making raids a bit easier.</P> <P>This change though doesnt help enchanters since it still only allows 1 enchanter on raids due to immunities. now if they allowed coercers and illusionist to have seperate immunites then 2 enchanters could use any of thier skills w/o out immunites from the opposing class. So in essence this broad change only makes epics easier and yet still doesnt really help out a CLASS Balance. It helps that 1 enchanter who goes to raids to do a tiny bit more. </P> <P>Again taking a broad look at these changes its really just not an ideal fix to any problem enchanters have.</P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#6699ff>Good points on the broad Changes</FONT>-</STRONG></P> <P><STRONG> It fixes the issue of summoners having higher dps then they should. </STRONG></P> <P><STRONG>Brawlers from soloing higher content then they should. </STRONG></P> <P><STRONG>gives 1 enchanter a little bit more to do on raids and making heroic content a bit more challenging</STRONG>.</P> <P><STRONG>Allows intercepts to be useful in raids and groups</STRONG></P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0033>Bad Points on the broad changes-</FONT></STRONG></P> <P><STRONG>Hurts alot of classes ability to solo (in example scouts)</STRONG></P> <P><STRONG>Hurts brawlers abilites to tank heroics comparable to plate tanks.</STRONG></P> <P><STRONG>does not fix many of the enchanters broken abilities or allow more then 1 enchanter to be useful on raids (in example useless power drains, weak charms for coercers compared to personae pets, Poor petless dps for enchanters.)</STRONG></P> <P><STRONG>makes raids overall a bit easier</STRONG></P> <P><STRONG></STRONG> </P> <P><STRONG>Anyway Stuns needed to get nerfed, Summoners needed to get nerfed, intercepts needed to get fixed, But enchanters are in no way shape or form fixed by these changes.</STRONG></P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:03 AM</span>

[aislynn00]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dazee wrote:<BR> <P>Aislynn00 -</P> <P>In your post you question whether Enchanters were "nerfed" and suggested people were blind for not being able to see the quality in the LU. Inspired by your post I reread the update notes.</P> <P>. . .</P> <P>So please do not suggest that I am blind for not seeing the positive in this update.</P> <P>Thanks</P> <P>Eiline 70 Coercer</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>As is obvious from your post, you did <EM>not</EM> reread the update notes.  You just reread the changes to your own spells, which won't do.</P> <P>I reiterate:  you are considering the changes to your class in a vacuum and thus are missing the actual impact of the control changes as a whole.</P> <P>Let me give you an example.</P> <P>Suppose character A is able to stun a mob for 4 seconds, twice.</P> <P>Suppose character B is able to stun a mob for 6 seconds once, then 4 seconds once.</P> <P>Suppose character C is able to stun a mob for 4 seconds once.</P> <P>If those two characters don't overlap their stuns, they could keep a mob locked down for 22 seconds out of a fight.  </P> <P>Suppose the fight lasts 30 seconds.</P> <P>Add an enchanter to that group.  </P> <P>What does he contribute vs aforementioned mob?  He can stun, stifle, and daze the mob, thus locking it down for the remaining 8 seconds.</P> <P>Now let's look at things after the control changes have gone into effect.</P> <P>Suppose character A is able to stun a mob for 2.5 seconds, twice.</P> <P>Suppose character B is able to stun a mob for 2.5 seconds, once, then daze the mob for another 6 seconds.</P> <P>Suppose character C is able to stun the mob 2.5 seconds, once.</P> <P>So, now the mob would be stunned a max of 10 seconds and merely dazed another 6.  That leaves the mob able to use combat arts and spells for 20 seconds and use auto-attacks for 14 seconds.  An enchanter could still render the mob entirely unable to use auto-attacks and could probably keep its combat arts and spell useage down to a bare minimum.</P> <P>In other words, the impact that an enchanter would have on that fight, pre- and post-LU, would be dramatically improved because of the control changes to <EM>other</EM> classes.  You don't see that if you consider only the changes to your own spells and ignore the big picture.</P> <P>Again: enchanters are being buffed, a lot, by the upcoming LU, especially in a group context.</P>

[Josephr]

Wow,I've had the same account with SOE since EQ launched oh so many years ago.  When EQ2 came out I made the switch right away.  2 weeks ago I was looking at my account info and canceled by mistake.  I was waiting for the account to expire so I could renew.  Guess what....not going to happen.  I'm tired of sweeping changes.  I don't think I need to go in to details of my characters and all that jaz I have many different ones.  Lets just leave it at I'm tired of having to constantly relearn my classes and the best way to play them.Bye byePS.  No you can't have my stuff <span>:robottongue:</span><div></div>

[KongstadPS]

<IMG src="http://www.kongstad-design.dk/puwease.jpg">

[Ishbu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><STRONG>Anyway Stuns needed to get nerfed, Summoners needed to get nerfed, intercepts needed to get fixed, But enchanters are in no way shape or form fixed by these changes.</STRONG></P> <P>Message Edited by Gungo on <SPAN class=date_text>05-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:03 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Get things straight, summoners did not need to be nerfed, they and other t1 dps classes needed to be adjusted.  There is a difference.  Boost up a couple abilities of the t1 classes a little bit, lower a couple abilities of the summoner classes a little bit.  That would have solved any disparity problems there, but in no way, shape, or form was this nerf needed.</P> <P>This is what happened to conjurors as of right now with most likely more on the way:</P> <P>Swarmpets do considerably less dps, they also have a significantly longer recast, rendering them all but useless for the power cost/cast time on any mob with an AE.  </P> <P>Of course our pets had their damage significantly lowered (wich I think pretty much everyone assumed we be the adjustments to the summoners, none of this other stuff)</P> <P>Our pet proc'ing "legendary" spell from DoF had its dmg cut in half!  </P> <P>Our shattered ground line of encounte dots had its damage lowered and stifle removed. (I noticed they never mentioned the damage was lowered, unless I missed it)</P> <P>The int on our pet offensive stance was lowered by over a third.</P> <P>Our stun had its recast upped significantly and duration lowered so that is not longer even a spell we can throw out regularily for damage regardless of its long casttime and huge power cost.</P> <P>Are you honestly saying that this isnt the utmost extreme?  What would be FAR more appropriate is to set up the control changes, bring them to live and see how they play out.  Yes, I said live because test server doesnt test even 1/10th as well as the live server does.  With those changes dps numbers are going to change, so you wait, tweak, and see how that pans out.  After that is all working properly, then you adjust the summoner pets, since pets seemed to be the root of the excess dps.  After that goes live take another look.  I promise you with the proposed changes you wont see a summoner with their pet out damaging everyone, so why the needed to nerf all the other stuff as well?  Instead of taking this step by step, SOE is deciding to just cut off the head and hope to sew it back on later like they did with rangers.  Guess what, they failed there and my money is on them failing here as well.</P>

[Daz]

<P>Aislynn00</P> <P> </P> <P>I do not see the overall good in this patch. I will do my best to remain positive and wait and see. I certainly wont quit before the patch hits. I genuinely want things to work out for the best.</P> <P> </P> <P>I see reduction in my mezz duration, increases in my recast timers for my damage and my mezzes. I see others are losing duration on their stuns and damage. Oookies, I am open minded enough to think that maybe this will all work out. The only problem is our mezzes and stuns are also being reduced along with everyone's. SO I will have to wait and see how it all shakes out. </P> <P>In your post you suggested people were blind for not being able to see the good in this update. I very much disagree with that. I think its all in how you put it out there. They came out with negatives and very little good. </P>

[Nevari]

<div></div>Heh, given that the crowd control synergies of classes were situational over the top and some classes were even solo overpowered in the vision and from the point of view of the devs.Ok, I understand that. I agree with adjustments and will swallow the hit I receive in the sake of long time health and fun of the game.<div></div>My problem is that after all the years, experience and different MMOs from the brand SOE I still don't see stability, a clear line or receive any proper communication and reasoning. This is not about asking the playerbase if or how should a change be introduced. I don't dare to go that far. This is about how it is handled all together. How fame and bad past experiences reflect on my subjective point of view of the game and the game fun I derive out of it now.Again let me ask if not after all this long time experience with developing and operating MMOs, with all the feedback, testing, beta phases how the smeg are the devs supposed to get it right now if not in the first and not even in the second place? How and why should it work now if never before?So now I can decide to pack my stuff and leave, fine. I even get told this and in a way I miss any dignity and respect and willingness to even remotely see that there is a lack in some parts of customer relations. This is bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], sorry.I can't agree with any long term point of view anymore if there is none overally.And even bader, the blasted topic of Troubadors. We didn't ask to discuss changes with us or anything like that. We only wanted a dev respond to us, tell us we are not out in the rain without knowing what the next day will bring.All the reasons in the bigger view and through toolsets we as players lack are fine. I point out I don't trust SOE to get it right now either but that's of no matter now. At some point tolerance and patience is used up. This game needs stability. I don't want another LU13 and I don't want another [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing Wrath of Fury dirty fix.At the end of the day you can reason as much as you like, you won't receive any positive feedback from the players anymore really, for these messed up past experiences which in the end will drive away a lot of loyal customers.If you want to follow the bigger vision dear devs, get some stability into the game, communicate properly with your customers and maybe don't try to pull a SWG. Sooner or later the loyal base is pretty much gone. The game will live on like always but you are loosing the fun of it yourself seeing even if not admitting it you failed making the game a success like you wanted in the first place.

[Dallun]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><font color="#ffcc00"><b>Spells and Combat Arts</b></font>- All knockdowns and many short stuns that were 3- 4s in duration are changed to 2.5s duration.- Spells that summon stationary objects will cause hate towards the caster instead of the object.- Swarm and Dumbfire pets had their inherent stat bonuses removed from contributing to their damage. This amounts to a 17.5% reduction in their overall damage.<b></b><b></b><b>Mage changes:</b>- Wizard, Warlock, Conjurer, Necromancer: Root Spells: * Has 15% overall break chance instead of 20% * Only processes break chances when damage is received, not on any hostile act towards the target. * Duration reduced.<font color="#ffcc00"><b></b></font><hr></blockquote>As a Warden I'm concerend about a few things that often times get overlooked in the big picture.  Can you please clarify a few tings for me? Assumptions:   1.  In the opening paragraph you state that all knockdown effects are being reduced to 2.5 seconds.  So I am making the assumption that this also applies to the Warden Sandstorm line.    2.  Our Wolves are also being affected by this reduction in stats.   3.  Our Tree won't be killed as often.Questions:   1.  Are Wardens being affected by this change in the inherant way roots function?   2.  Because of the reduction in damage of the wolves, will wardens be seeing an increase in durration to parallel that of other dumbfires with the same recast.   3.  Will Warden roots also follow the mage line of breaking, i.e. only when damage is received.Thanks for your input.Dallun70 WardenAntonia Bayle<div></div><p>Message Edited by Dallun on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:33 AM</span>

[aislynn00]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><FONT face=Verdana color=#ffffff size=2>. . .</FONT></P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0033>Bad Points on the broad changes-</FONT></STRONG></P> <P><STRONG>Hurts alot of classes ability to solo (in example scouts)</STRONG></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Non-bard scouts are currently able to solo heroics, something which shouldn't be taken for granted according to Moorguard.  I'm pretty damned sure scouts will still be able to take down solo con mobs after the changes.  Besides, one of the stuns some scouts currently have is going to be converted into a root with a facing-lock component, thus preserving the scout ability to flank a mob and use positional combat arts while solo.</FONT></P> <P><STRONG>Hurts brawlers abilites to tank heroics comparable to plate tanks.</STRONG></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>In spite of having superior DPS, brawlers already tank most heroic content better than guardians because of their control abilities, so I don't see any problems in that regard, considering paladins (the most stun-heavy plate wearers) are being nerfed right alongside brawlers, so balance is preserved in that regard.</FONT></P> <P><STRONG>does not fix many of the enchanters broken abilities or allow more then 1 enchanter to be useful on raids (in example useless power drains, weak charms for coercers compared to personae pets, Poor petless dps for enchanters.)</STRONG></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>There are still issues, granted, but balancing enchanters in a heroic context is a lot more important than accomplishing the same in an epic context, and the former is being accomplished very nicely indeed with the upcoming LU.  We can only hope SOE will continue to tweak balance in the epic context subsequently.</FONT></P> <P><STRONG>makes raids overall a bit easier</STRONG></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>You want to buff enchanters vs epic content?  Then you have to accept that epic mobs will become slightly easier unless they are adjusted (which I have little doubt they will be.)  You can't change something without it having consequences, you know.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Daz]

<P>The changes are coming. I get that. It is not my game. I pay a fee every month to play a toon that is not actually mine. I just play her and advance her as much as my life permits. You get a feeling of ownership in the toon because you can camp em in a spot and they are there when you pick em up again. You can buy em gear or loot cool stuff and next time you log on its all there for you to enjoy. This reinforces the feeling of ownership. When they change stuff in the game and change how you have to play your toon its a douse of reality. Its not my toon, its theirs and I pay monthly for the right to play her. All that being said this is a lot of what appears to be negative changes and I am having a difficult time seeing enough good coming out of it to justify the things they are taking away. </P> <P> </P> <P>Aislynn I objected to your post personally, specifically because you suggested people were blind for not being able to see the good in this update. I think that was a very small minded thing to say from someone preaching to see the good in the overall patch. Please take time to appreciate that not all people see things from your perspective.</P> <P> </P> <P>Thanks</P> <P>Eiline 70 Coercer</P>

[TaleraRis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> aislynn00 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <P><STRONG>Hurts alot of classes ability to solo (in example scouts)</STRONG></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Non-bard scouts are currently able to solo heroics, something which shouldn't be taken for granted according to Moorguard.  I'm pretty damned sure scouts will still be able to take down solo con mobs after the changes.  Besides, one of the stuns some scouts currently have is going to be converted into a root with a facing-lock component, thus preserving the scout ability to flank a mob and use positional combat arts while solo.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm a solo ranger, with gear gained through what I can get questing, crafting or solo drops. I am NOT out there soloing heroics. I have trouble with blue ^ sometimes. Yet this change is greatly affecting at least one ability that I use in every single solo fight. And this same skill I *don't* use in groups, because it's useless.</P> <P>Not all non-bard scouts are out there soloing heroics. I would imagine a large majority of us aren't, especially those like me who utilize Cheap Shot on a regular basis.<BR></P>

[Ganlu]

Remind me why I have swarm pets again?  So I can take 5-6 seconds and hundreds of power to cast them, have them do less damage now, have them die to one AE and then wait 60s to recast them?  Awesome!I hope that pet heal change is significant.<div></div>

[Tro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> stryker115 wrote:<BR>Remind me why I have swarm pets again?  So I can take 5-6 seconds and hundreds of power to cast them, have them do less damage now, have them die to one AE and then wait 60s to recast them?  Awesome!<BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0033>I hope that pet heal change is significant.<BR></FONT><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I can tell you.. it's +28 HP's. <BR>

[Guard_Ra]

<P>Although they'll adamantly deny it, IMO, this is just another case of PVP class balancing bleed over. </P> <P>Get a clue SOE.....we're sick of relearning our f#%$ing classes every LU.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Ishbu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trook wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> stryker115 wrote:<BR>Remind me why I have swarm pets again?  So I can take 5-6 seconds and hundreds of power to cast them, have them do less damage now, have them die to one AE and then wait 60s to recast them?  Awesome!<BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0033>I hope that pet heal change is significant.<BR></FONT><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I can tell you.. it's +28 HP's. <BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sweet!  So you mean that spell that was less than 1/3 of what it should have been with a power cost 2x what it should have been now has a higher power cost for 28 more hp healed?  Great this spell can remain off my hot bar!

[ranma5]

With this much significant crap in a LU, I haven't the slightest idea how it will all fit together.  <div></div>

[Loki_d20]

Is there an overall issue with people taking on group mobs too easily?  I can dangerously take on green ^^^ mobs in a very well equipped duo, which by the way are typically what I need to do quests.  Especially named mobs, who seem to have all of the CC they need to cut my DPS into 1/5 of it's normal amount.I don't get the overall dps decrease as I find it frustrating already to take on green-con mobs for an almost grey quest.  I'm told there are solo quests, but every single one since 30 has involved having to bypass heroic mobs that would have destroyed me easily if I was solo, while the other half involve those exact same heroic mobs.Does SOE feel that people are progressing too fast through the game?  If so, why not just halve xp and drop rates?  Why force me to take on even weaker opponents for lesser rewards and less chance to finish up my green con quests while they're worth something (still haven't gotten any Achievement XP for completing any 20+ quests).Or, perhaps this is just their method of presenting us with the worst case scenario nerf, then next week giving us the 'still bad, but not as bad' nerf package so that we'll accept it more.  After lots of thinking on these changes, I really don't understand them outside of the CC changes.<div></div>

[Wikod]

<div></div>nm looks like these notes changed from the other ones<div></div><p>Message Edited by Wikod on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:05 AM</span>

[aislynn00]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TaleraRis wrote: <P>I'm a solo ranger, with gear gained through what I can get questing, crafting or solo drops. I am NOT out there soloing heroics. I have trouble with blue ^ sometimes. Yet this change is greatly affecting at least one ability that I use in every single solo fight. And this same skill I *don't* use in groups, because it's useless.</P> <P>Not all non-bard scouts are out there soloing heroics. I would imagine a large majority of us aren't, especially those like me who utilize Cheap Shot on a regular basis.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>My wife solos blue-con heroics with her ranger alt without any issues whatsoever.  It looks ridiculously easy when she does it and doesn't require any kind of stun.</P> <P>Use poisons.  Use the highest quality arrow you have access to.  Make sure you have a good bow, such as the Grizzfazzle quested one, or have one made by a woodworker (harvesting a rare wood isn't particularly hard for a solo ranger.)  Use Thorny Trap right before you pull, if possible.  Pull the mob with a high-damage arrow and make sure it paths across your trap, so it becomes rooted.  Get a snare on the mob and try to keep it there until the mob dies.  Stick to ranged attacks.  When not rooted, kite the mob and keep firing arrows as you run in a circle.</P> <P>The above approach works like a charm vs any kind of non-caster mob that doesn't have abnormal run speed.</P>

[Loki_d20]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>aislynn00 wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Dazee wrote: <div></div> <p>Aislynn00 -</p> <p>In your post you question whether Enchanters were "nerfed" and suggested people were blind for not being able to see the quality in the LU. Inspired by your post I reread the update notes.</p> <p>. . .</p> <p>So please do not suggest that I am blind for not seeing the positive in this update.</p> <p>Thanks</p> <p>Eiline 70 Coercer</p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>As is obvious from your post, you did <em>not</em> reread the update notes.  You just reread the changes to your own spells, which won't do.</p> <p>I reiterate:  you are considering the changes to your class in a vacuum and thus are missing the actual impact of the control changes as a whole.</p> <p>Let me give you an example.</p> <p>Suppose character A is able to stun a mob for 4 seconds, twice.</p> <p>Suppose character B is able to stun a mob for 6 seconds once, then 4 seconds once.</p> <p>Suppose character C is able to stun a mob for 4 seconds once.</p> <p>If those two characters don't overlap their stuns, they could keep a mob locked down for 22 seconds out of a fight.  </p> <p>Suppose the fight lasts 30 seconds.</p> <p>Add an enchanter to that group.  </p> <p>What does he contribute vs aforementioned mob?  He can stun, stifle, and daze the mob, thus locking it down for the remaining 8 seconds.</p> <p>Now let's look at things after the control changes have gone into effect.</p> <p>Suppose character A is able to stun a mob for 2.5 seconds, twice.</p> <p>Suppose character B is able to stun a mob for 2.5 seconds, once, then daze the mob for another 6 seconds.</p> <p>Suppose character C is able to stun the mob 2.5 seconds, once.</p> <p>So, now the mob would be stunned a max of 10 seconds and merely dazed another 6.  That leaves the mob able to use combat arts and spells for 20 seconds and use auto-attacks for 14 seconds.  An enchanter could still render the mob entirely unable to use auto-attacks and could probably keep its combat arts and spell useage down to a bare minimum.</p> <p>In other words, the impact that an enchanter would have on that fight, pre- and post-LU, would be dramatically improved because of the control changes to <em>other</em> classes.  You don't see that if you consider only the changes to your own spells and ignore the big picture.</p> <p>Again: enchanters are being buffed, a lot, by the upcoming LU, especially in a group context.</p><hr></blockquote>I think everyone agrees that CC changes are fine... but the rest along with it just doesn't make much sense.  Even the changes to conjuror/necromancer spells doesn't make much sense considering you're nerfing their damage, recast, but keeping up the power and at the same time the damage their pets can do from auto-attack and combat arts.  What do they get in return?  Improved pet heal that is rarely used considering how little it heals for in comparison to how much power it takes (you can do 4x the damage to a mob or heal your pet for the equivalent of about 2 attacks from the mob that can be re-done in 3-5seconds easily).As far as people soloing heroics, I think the issue is seeing some twinked out class doing something abnormal and now everyone can do it.  Sure, some of these changes will bring down those classes with masters and legendary gear from the get-go, but what does it do to those normal folks like myself who don't have a 60+ character yet and also doesn't have all the money in the world to uberfy his alts (of which I have many)?  I dual box, and I have to work my butt off to take on green heroics and extremely low level blue heroics that I need for my quests (I tend to be able to only finish green ones even though the mobs I fight for those quests <b>are higher level than the quest level itself</b>).  Now I'm going to have even more trouble and less CC capability?  I don't consider myself overpowered when I get about one legendary drop a week from my dual boxing, and typically something that I just give away or sell because it's never an item I can use.</div><p>Message Edited by Loki_d20 on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:09 AM</span>

[Pashta]

<DIV><FONT color=#9933ff size=4>  <EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Are you trying to take away casting classes ability to solo?  BAD MOVE, as you can see DDO is failing due to no solo content and they are adding some now to try to keep alive, WoW is supposedly so successful due to their solo content.  </FONT></EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#9933ff size=4><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT></EM></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#9933ff size=4><EM><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">  If I cannot solo in this game I will be leaving, period.  I sure hope you know what you are doing.</FONT></EM></FONT></DIV>

[Sir Blig]

<P>Loki_d20 "I think everyone agrees that CC changes are fine" hmm i must have missed somthing,</P> <P>Have you done any reading in the troub pages about the CC changes?</P> <P>Have you played a troub as a matter of interest?</P>

[Loki_d20]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Sir Blight wrote:<div></div> <p>Loki_d20 "I think everyone agrees that CC changes are fine" hmm i must have missed somthing,</p> <p>Have you done any reading in the troub pages about the CC changes?</p> <p>Have you played a troub as a matter of interest?</p><hr></blockquote>Yes, actually I have.  What troubs need are their DPS to be upped again and for charm to not be nerfed (I don't consider that CC considering it's a medium-term pet function).  I believe it is necessary to nerf their CC ability in order to justify use of CC by enchanters, but troubadours being one of the few classes that relied on it for groups should obtain dps that was lost previously in return for the decrease of their CC ability (once every 20s).I did not say that classes that lost CC overall were now balanced, but the CC changes themself are fine for the point of improving enchanters in raids.</div><p>Message Edited by Loki_d20 on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:16 AM</span>

[SavinDwa]

<DIV>aislynn00,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think one of the issues is that for some reason the average player views other classes as a "whole" and only understands that things can change wildly level to level in their own class.  Which is not surprising.  I have a level 66 ranger.  I could solo white 1-up arrow mobs at level 55.  Now I can have trouble with a 1-up green.  By level 70 I will probably be able to solo white 1-ups again.  Its to do with when I get spell upgrades.  I have not had a major upgrade in my offensive output for a while.. levels 68-70 I get a whole bunch of upgrades to stuff I got in the 53-55 range.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On the subject of the stuns its a completely different story.   Rangers (and assassins) have very positional CAs.  In the case of a Ranger most of my major damage dealers either require:</DIV> <DIV>1) To be outside melee range</DIV> <DIV>2) To be stealthed and outside melee range</DIV> <DIV>3) to be stealth and behind the mob</DIV> <DIV>4) Be behind the mob</DIV> <DIV>5) Be at range and behind the mob</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stick me in melee range and in front of the mob and unstealthed and I do about 25% of my normal DPS.  That includes always using two poisons.  When they were balancing rangers/assassins they increased our stun duration so that we could stun and get in position and do a CA.  For me that means stun, back up CA, or stun, stealth behind CA, or stun stealth backup CA.  Against a down-arrow greens I can normally get to CAs off before they are back on me after a stun.  On a one up arrow green I can barely get off one CA after a stun.. and it better be a fast one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only other tactic for me is to kite.  But I think its stupid and anyway I can't fire any of my CAs while moving so its a true pain.  (the last CA I could fire while moving got nerfed a couple of major patches ago).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So solo every ranger uses stun (cheap shot) once the mob closes with them.  After this patch the stun will be useless for us.  I might just get off 1 CA on a no arrow green before it breaks.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>QUESTION FOR SOE:</DIV> <DIV>With the reduction in stun times what are your suggested solo tactics for Rangers and Assassins?  I assume you understand that stun will not allow an assassin to stun, stealth, get behind and fire a CA before the stun wears off.</DIV>

[Azmode]

<DIV>I so cant wait for this enchanter class overhaul to go through!!   I am so eager with anticipation for my chance to shine in a raid.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can stun that UBER Dragon of death for 2 seconds, and while I am waiting 2 mins for the refresh on the epic stun,  I am going to swill down a large ice coffee in hopes my bladder will fill up so I can pee on the mob to add to my DPS which after this update will be laughable. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Make no mistake about it.  Its not just the recast on our level 70 Sonic Boom which will kill our DPS, but our main nuke line is getting severely nerfed.  From the numbers I have seen, from 900+ damage at Master 1 to 200ish.  WHY?????  Was my 150 Raid DPS too high for you guys??</DIV><p>Message Edited by Azmodeus on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:48 AM</span>

[masakre]

<DIV>Sony won't learn. The only way they will get a clue is if we cancel our accounts, which appears to be what I will be doing. So sick of mass nerfs to every class. I think I have re-rolled 4 times due to nerfing the crap outta my toon, only to nerf the next toon I play a couple live updates later. Game sucks more and more each day, I just hope they don't screw Vanguard.</DIV>

[Ishbu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azmodeus wrote:<BR> <DIV>I so cant wait for this enchanter class overhaul to go through!!   I am so eager with anticipation for my chance to shine in a raid.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can stun that UBER Dragon of death for 2 seconds, and while I am waiting 2 mins for the refresh on the epic stun,  I am going to swill down a large ice coffee in hopes my bladder will fill up so I can pee on the mob to add to my DPS which after this update will be laughable. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I dont play an enchanter but that is similar to what I thought too.  </P> <P>I cant imagine how SOE in their vision felt that coercers were dong too much damage and needed to have sonic boom increased in recast.  That spell could have had its casting time cut by a third and they still wouldnt have been too much dps.</P>

[Iari111]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Suraklin wrote:<BR> <DIV>I feel sorry for all the mobs in the game. They're gonna be wondering why no players are trying to kill them anymore. I'm sorry mobs, the SOE devs decided to screw with the game too much and [Removed for Content] too many people off so most of them quit. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG> I honestly think this is almost up there with the NGE debacle in SWG</STRONG>. Too bad no good MMO's coming out anytime soon to go to because if I don't like these changes I will have no choice but to quit all MMO's. I pay to play a fun game. If the game becomes unfun I don't give SOE anymore of my money. You guys aren't exactly rolling in the money from subscriptions either. Do you really want to lose even more money by implementing this insane LU? Is Smed pointing a gun at you guys to come up with this crap or did you actually think it up yourselves? </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Suraklin on <SPAN class=date_text>05-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:21 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Not even close.  At least coercer/illusionist is still a class...</P> <P>.. for now <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>But I do wish this wasn't happening.  As I said before, most people just want to enjoy the game and not have to readjust to new/nerfed abilities every 3 months.  Devs, even you must admit, it would have been nice to allow the players to look forward to and eventually play Fallen Dynasty without having to relearn their classes again.</P> <P>Adjusting an entire class, and along with it all the other classes, just to minimally affect the raid game, is short-sighted.<BR></P>

[Renpatsu]

<P>I agree with the overall picture SoE got. Group fights are quite easy nowadays unless the mob got some superb "one shot ability" or the like. So if SoE will adjust the mob abilities as a next step, we'll be fine in general and on the long run this will be better for the game. Please don't take your class pre LU #X and post LU #X and see only the difference there, look at the whole picture and SoE's intentions. I for one am curious how the whole picture works out. The game will be different for sure, but not less fun I think - quite the contrary. </P> <P>As for my beloved conjy, I'll adapt my playstyle after this LU and will deal less damage overall ( Surprise !!! :smileywink: ). Looking forward to optimize my playstyle after this LU and to group/raid with my friends.</P>

[Ishbu]

Whoa the fallen dynasty.....do they really think I am going to pay for 5 half [Removed for Content] instance zones after this?

[deepfree]

I have a problem with most of the changes just because we were not broke we just wanted to be a bit more useful on raids.  Most the people that think LU24 is good say "well if you have this class stun and this class stun a mob and then a chanter will stun the mob it locks down the mob the whole time and the change will help make the game a bit more challenging and chanters will be appreciated more.  When was the last time you played with a complete  or even group.  Most of the time I am in a group of 3 or 4.  So please dont make arguments for LU24 based on a perfect group or raid...

[Loki_d20]

<div><blockquote><hr>Renpatsu wrote:<div></div> <p>I agree with the overall picture SoE got. Group fights are quite easy nowadays unless the mob got some superb "one shot ability" or the like. So if SoE will adjust the mob abilities as a next step, we'll be fine in general and on the long run this will be better for the game. Please don't take your class pre LU #X and post LU #X and see only the difference there, look at the whole picture and SoE's intentions. I for one am curious how the whole picture works out. The game will be different for sure, but not less fun I think - quite the contrary. </p> <p>As for my beloved conjy, I'll adapt my playstyle after this LU and will deal less damage overall ( Surprise !!! :smileywink: ). Looking forward to optimize my playstyle after this LU and to group/raid with my friends.</p><hr></blockquote>That's great for half of the classes, but your scout classes specifically can't really 'adjust' to not being to use their primary abilities, which are position-based, less often if at all now.  Heck, half the mob groups I fight now have stunning and stifling creatures in them, now not only do I have to time it right and get lucky so that I can get off a stun, move behind them, and use a non-stealth slightly better than my other attacks back attack, now I have 2 less seconds in which to attempt this maneuver.  And, this is in a duo group, not solo.  I don't even consider soloing with my brigand considering it's too dangerous and results in very little reward (that and I like to finish quests while they're green).</div>

[Rominian]

<DIV>Just so everyone knows, the enchanter classes are up in arms about this whole mess as well.  The Devs are using us as an excuse for making sweeping changes across the board, and we are just as disgusted as the rest of you.  They are taking away our ability to solo heroic mobs, which to me was not overpowered.  When was the last time it took one of you wizards or summoners 30 minutes to take down a named?  thats how long it takes me.  They are changing our mez, changing some of our key spells, and changing the output damage on MANY of our spells.  Oh sure, they are giving us the chance to stun/stifle or oh goody! mez epic mobs, but for very limited duration and the immunity lasts a long time IF our spell lands, because now they are all a lot more resistable, as if most mobs in this game dont have a high enough mental resist already.  Our ability to stun/stifle/mez epic mobs is a JOKE, all of those who raid already take down the raid mobs WITHOUT mez/stun/stifle, this change will NOT help WHATSOEVER!!  Most of the recast timers on our spells are being incresed by half, if not doubled in some cases.  In the end?  We are [Removed for Content], you are [Removed for Content], everyone is [Removed for Content].  DEVS, listen to these posts and read your feedback from the test server, and DONT use enchanters as a reason for this, because it is catagorically UNTRUE.  Blame it on your lack of ability to design a game.....</DIV>

[Renpatsu]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Loki_d20 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Renpatsu wrote:<BR> <P>I agree with the overall picture SoE got. Group fights are quite easy nowadays unless the mob got some superb "one shot ability" or the like. So if SoE will adjust the mob abilities as a next step, we'll be fine in general and on the long run this will be better for the game. Please don't take your class pre LU #X and post LU #X and see only the difference there, look at the whole picture and SoE's intentions. I for one am curious how the whole picture works out. The game will be different for sure, but not less fun I think - quite the contrary. </P> <P>As for my beloved conjy, I'll adapt my playstyle after this LU and will deal less damage overall ( Surprise !!! :smileywink: ). Looking forward to optimize my playstyle after this LU and to group/raid with my friends.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>That's great for half of the classes, but your scout classes specifically can't really 'adjust' to not being to use their primary abilities, which are position-based, less often if at all now.  Heck, half the mob groups I fight now have stunning and stifling creatures in them, now not only do I have to time it right and get lucky so that I can get off a stun, move behind them, and use a non-stealth slightly better than my other attacks back attack, now I have 2 less seconds in which to attempt this maneuver.  And, this is in a duo group, not solo.  I don't even consider soloing with my brigand considering it's too dangerous and results in very little reward (that and I like to finish quests while they're green).<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I got a swashy alt and sure it's tricky to solo with her, heavily relying on stuns and behind/flanking (partially stealth) positional attacks. When a scout needs to "tank", like in a duo setting with healer, I agree with you, that it'll take more time to get the mob down and half of the CAs won't be used, but it can be done nevertheless. Duoing a troub and a warden works just fine on even con triple ups (my warden was actually 5 level lower) and I won't call this a perfect group setup.</P> <P>Regarding the mob abilities, e.g. chain stunning beetles aren't fun and that's one thing SoE has to look into for sure. After altering the CC abilities of players, SoE then will have to alter at least some mob abilities as well. That's what I mean with "whole picture".</P> <p>Message Edited by Renpatsu on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:08 AM</span>

[Ishbu]

What makes you so sure they will alter any mob abilities?  SOE has a real reputation for leaving things half done that hurt the players.

[Krontak]

<DIV>- Swashbuckler: Disarming Grin: Increased recast timer to 45s from 30s.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ack!  Please rethink this.  Gonna put a damper on my ability to keep an add mez'd that would otherwise kill me off if I'm solo.  I really don't see why this was even touched.  Was it to make the mez classes feel more wanted in groups or something?  I highly doubt swashies where being chosen in groups for thier mez'ing capabilities being how limited they are.  Anyways, if your in a group, you're usually already attacking the add before a recast where to take place.  This is a direct blow to solo'ing capabilities of swashbucklers and in no way improves the need of enchanters in groups imho.</DIV>

[Igu]

<P>I cant imagine that SOE does not believe there will be a backlash because of this. Maybe they think it will be small enough that they can ignore it.</P> <P>I personally dont think so.</P> <P>My main is a 62 monk. I can take 1 arrows a level or two higher, but need to use my heal or Tsnami or both to do it. I cant even dream of a ^^ let alone a ^^^. I guess they have uber gear. If I play my monk after this patch and notice a drop in my ability to kill...I will cancel my two SA accounts.</P> <P>I play games for fun and I dont pay for BS.</P> <P>This patch makes WoW worth considering again.</P>

[Renpatsu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ishboozor wrote:<BR> What makes you so sure they will alter any mob abilities?  SOE has a real reputation for leaving things half done that hurt the players.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I am not sure about SoE changing the mob abilities, but I have confidence in them doing so. Perhaps because I didn't play EQ1/SWG or the like. I have lots of fun in EQ2 and unless I am proven wrong I am thinking in a positive way.</P>

[Ishbu]

The thing I just dont understand is that when so many people are becoming bored and tired of your game already, why would do something that is sure to [Removed for Content] off 9 out of every 10 people?

[qwe123z]

<P>- Guardian: Crumble: Reduced damage on melee hit portion of combat art. <BR>- Guardian: Concussion: Increased damage, now reduces casting skills of target instead of power damage. <BR>- Guardian: Guardian Sphere: Intercept no longer assists pets in the group. <BR>- Guardian: Sentinel: Reduced some of the higher level chances at intercepting damage. Can only be used on Priests or Mages. <BR>- Guardian: Entrench: Root component no longer affects Epic targets. <BR>- Guardian: Sentry Watch: Death prevention correctly does no process on the caster, only allies in the group. <BR>- Warrior: Wis 2: Belly Smash: Removed additional knockdown effect. </P> <P>Seems guardians get hit with this patch also -- I do not understand why anyone is looking at the above as positive.  </P> <P>The one that astounds me is making sentinel only usable on a priest or mage -- What is so wrong with protecting a scout?  Or even another tank for that matter.  Not all groups(especially small ones) have more priests/mages than tanks.  And reducing our chance of intercept -- I mean this is our primary role.</P> <P>Entrench gets nerfed -- I mean our skills have devastating skills on OURSELVES but not them in this case -- that one will make it harder to keep some battles under control.</P> <P>And of course belly smash losing its stun -- and they didnt even list above that the stun on the shield smash is reduced in duration (that was in the generic all stuns get hurt).  Those changes together will make it MUCH harder for guardians to solo healers -- we simply cant outdamage their healing without being able to take them out for a few seconds at the end of the battle.</P> <P>As for the moving damage from crumble to concussion....  Guardians have big problems with power management and actually concussion was an ability that we did NOT use all the time because the power/damage ratio was bad on it.  Crumble is one we always use.  By moving this damage it will reduce our flexibility in power management so it is an overall nerf not a shifting.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by qwe123zxc on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:50 AM</span>

[Celestian_]

Blackguard, can you guys do something about the spell animations for Templars? There are a few spells that do not have any animations at all ... well asside from a swirling white light at our feet.The supplicating fate spell line comes to mind. I know there is at least one more. I like to look like im actually working in a group not just standing there.I know this is sorta off topic but the subject seemed to say artwork.... <div></div>

[Tro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Celestian_GC wrote:<BR>Blackguard, can you guys do something about the spell animations for Templars? There are a few spells that do not have any animations at all ... well asside from a swirling white light at our feet.<BR><BR>The supplicating fate spell line comes to mind. I know there is at least one more. I like to look like im actually working in a group not just standing there.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0066>I know this is sorta off topic but the subject seemed to say artwork.... <BR></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I am pretty sure he meant "Combat Art" not art and graphics <BR>

[ReviloTX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackguard wrote:<BR> <BR><B>Fighter changes:</B><BR>- Guardian: Crumble: Reduced damage on melee hit portion of combat art.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], we needed a dps nerf like we need a hole in the head.

[ReviloTX]

Oh yea, and BTW we don't have a skill called crumble, so I'm quite curious as to which of our pitifully low DPS CA's got nerfed.

[curtlewis]

<div></div>I don't see the need to nerf a 2 second stun.  Care to explain how this is overpowered?Same with short stuns up to 4s.Why are my root durations being nerfed 50% to compensate for 5% less breakage?  This eliminates using them for root parking (aka Ghetto Mez) pretty much.  I can see a slight reduction, but 50% is exceptionally excessive...Also, root durations are now shorter than the recast time.  My root is my only defense.  My stuns is 2... wait 1.5 seconds now.  That doesn't exactly buy me anytime to reroot.  This isn't balancing, it's wizardly genocide.Come on, give us a fighting CHANCE!  We're already one shotted by tons of mobs.  The Summoner nerf won't fix the fact we aren't top notch raid DPS like the class should be as quite a few scout and fighter types out do us with ease.  I'll admit, I don't need the roots much, but when I do, they're not going to help me all that much now.  Basically, if I can't one shot a mob, I might want to consider asking for help dropping that green...Our description has been changed to "no other type of mage is able to match the Wizard's ability to inflict such great devastation upon a single target."So that gets you out of the hole in that several melee classes out do us except that it's unbalanced.  We give up hit points and armor to deal damage.  They have better armor and hit points and do more damage.  So what left and right nut did THEY give up?  Come on, this isn't rocket science.  The imbalance is clear and it's been there since BEFORE LU13.  Fix it already.<div></div><p>Message Edited by curtlewis on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:56 AM</span>

[agress]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>ReviloTX wrote:<div></div>Oh yea, and BTW we don't have a skill called crumble, so I'm quite curious as to which of our pitifully low DPS CA's got nerfed.<hr></blockquote>Its referring to a line of CA's that start with crumble:<span>Attack with DoT and Offensive Skill Debuff - HO-Icon: Sword </span><p><span>11 Crumble - 25 Ruin - 39 Ferocious Charge - 53 Relentless Charge - <font color="#6633ff">67 Merciless Charge</font></span></p>I only use this line for the debuff.  The damage wasn't all that great anyways.agressivUnrest Server</div><p>Message Edited by agressiv on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:49 PM</span>

[Galn]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffcc00 size=3>I’ve read over the changes and every post since and am trying to keep an open mind and have thought to myself, “Ok, how will this change REALLY effect my play, a combination of solo and grouping.” I do run two copies of the game on my PC part of the time, with a Monk/Mystic combo, and most of the time I solo with a Swashbuckler. First thing so people know how to put this post in with the scheme of things. My Swashy is lvl 47, has every skill at adept I, with 4-5 Master I’s my Master II choices and one Adept III. I’m wearing gear I’ve scrounged the broker for to maximize STR and enhance some other pertinent stats. This has cost me a few plat since level 40 and I’m not looking forward to spending another 10 plat when I ding 50, but this is not your everyday average Swashbuckler. Heck I have yet to meet any other character that has a higher strength, at the same level, than I do, even Fighters. My Monk and Mystic are above average in gear and skills so they do fairly well solo and grouped together they rock. </FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffcc00 size=3>The Swashbuckler can solo very well, meaning single white con mobs are really easy, some yellow ^ solo mobs I can take out as long as they are only 1-2 levels above me at most, and I can take out low green ^^^ heroics. The Monk can do the same and with the healer helping he’s taken out Yellow ^^^’s. I do this with tactics and optimizing my characters for a given role, the changes listed will not effect anything with this pair being able to do what it can. The thing that really surprised me with the Swashbuckler was the first time I killed a yellow con solo mob, cant remember if it had any down-arrows, and when I looked at the combat notes the mob did not get any swings in at me during the entire 10 second fight. Since my first move includes a stun and I set up my CA’s so the moment the first stun expires I’m stunning the mob again, then I swing steel until the mob dies. This doesn’t work every time though, things get resisted, swings get parried but still in one out of 10 fights I can do this. Seems fair to me considering the amount of effort I put into this character. The other swashbucklers I’ve created cant do it with average equipment and/or skills. The lower stun times on the two attacks I use will mean I must go buy new equipment because my brute force method of killing wont work anymore and I’ll get swung at more, meaning I need a higher AGI to dodge the attacks and a higher mitigation to reduce the higher damage these mobs to, but when push comes to shove, the mobs will die in 12 seconds instead of 10. This makes me ask, why change it in the first place and make so many players mad at SOE? With the shorter stun times maybe I’ll start using my Mez more often and be able to kill mobs without them swinging at me in 5 out of 10 fights then maybe Swashbucklers will lose their mez and even more people will be mad. </FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffcc00 size=3>I do agree that some classes are able to do things they should not be able to do, and perhaps something should be done to correct that, but I don’t see where changing almost every classes abilities in a detrimental way will really change that fact. Minor tweaks to a class usually have some very major effects on a class but they can be fixed fairly easy if a change shows some side-effect later. If 14 classes suddenly have issues not being able to solo where will SOE look for the problem? Was it the reduced stun times that caused the problem or the reduced damage on the 3 arts that were nerfed that is causing the problem? It will be really hard to tell.</FONT></P>

[Tro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> curtlewis wrote:<BR> I don't see the need to nerf a 2 second stun.  Care to explain how this is overpowered?<BR>Same with short stuns up to 4s.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffffff>Why are my root durations being nerfed 50% to compensate for 5% less breakage?  This eliminates using them for root parking (aka Ghetto Mez) pretty much.  I can see a slight reduction, but 50% is exceptionally excessive...<BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ff0033>Also, root durations are now shorter than the recast time.  My root is my only defense.  My stuns is 2... wait 1.5 seconds now.  That doesn't exactly buy me anytime to reroot.  This isn't balancing, it's wizardly genocide.<BR></FONT><BR>Come on, give us a fighting CHANCE!  We're already one shotted by tons of mobs.  The Summoner nerf won't fix the fact we aren't top notch raid DPS like the class should be as quite a few scout and fighter types out do us with ease.  I'll admit, I don't need the roots much, but when I do, they're not going to help me all that much now.  Basically, if I can't one shot a mob, I might want to consider asking for help dropping that green...<BR><BR>Our description has been changed to "no other type of mage is able to match the Wizard's ability to inflict such great devastation upon a single target."<BR><BR>So that gets you out of the hole in that several melee classes out do us except that it's unbalanced.  We give up hit points and armor to deal damage.  They have better armor and hit points and do more damage.  So what left and right nut did THEY give up?  Come on, this isn't rocket science.  The imbalance is clear and it's been there since BEFORE LU13.  Fix it already.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by curtlewis on <SPAN class=date_text>05-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:56 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>This will also be a problem for me. As a Conjuror, besides doing my part in taking out the target at hand, I also take it upon myself to park adds before they become a threat to the group. I am the CC basically with hotkeys etc.. Looks like Re-rooting is not gonna be an option now. It just keeps getting better and better. <p>Message Edited by Trook on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:11 AM</span>

[Zukihara]

Can the pos that is the druid AA choices get some love please????

[hellfire]

this is becomeing laughable..........makes me wanna stab my eyes with ice picks thanks a bunch soe.if wasnt so  annoyed maybe i would have  come out with something more usefull to say  but laughable  best describes  this LU imo.

[Kodros]

<div><blockquote><hr>Warpax wrote:<b>Scout changes:</b> - Scout: Cheap Shot: slightly reduced power cost. Duration is 4s instead of 6s on standard or weaker opponents.<font color="#ff3399"><font size="4">Either this needs to be changed back or you either need to reduce the cast time on all scout</font></font> <font size="4"><font color="#ff3399">class Sneaks. Cheap Shot is a </font></font><u><font color="#ffcc33" size="4"><i><i>necessary</i></i></font></u><font color="#ffcc33" size="4"><font color="#ff0099"> ability for any solo play and with these changes you have effectively destroyed this play tactic.</font><i><i><font color="#ff0099"></font></i></i></font><div></div><hr></blockquote> I didn't use once between the levels of 15 - 69 and I did great solo'ing.  It's not necessary.  How and why are you linking Sneaks up with Cheap shot?</div>

[Loki_d20]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kodros wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Warpax wrote:<b>Scout changes:</b> - Scout: Cheap Shot: slightly reduced power cost. Duration is 4s instead of 6s on standard or weaker opponents.<font color="#ff3399"><font size="4">Either this needs to be changed back or you either need to reduce the cast time on all scout</font></font> <font size="4"><font color="#ff3399">class Sneaks. Cheap Shot is a </font></font><u><font color="#ffcc33" size="4"><i><i>necessary</i></i></font></u><font color="#ffcc33" size="4"><font color="#ff0099"> ability for any solo play and with these changes you have effectively destroyed this play tactic.</font><i><i><font color="#ff0099"></font></i></i></font><div></div><hr></blockquote> I didn't use once between the levels of 15 - 69 and I did great solo'ing.  It's not necessary.  How and why are you linking Sneaks up with Cheap shot?</div><hr></blockquote>Depends on your scout class.  My brigand doesn't rely on sneak attack since his best positional attacks don't require stealth.  But, as an assassin or a ranger (played a while ago, though), I can say that it is not only possibe (easily at that) but mandatory for maximization of damage potential when solo to use the lie low/stealth and sneak attack method.  Otherwise, both classes are left with using their normal or sub-par melee (and some ranged) options when soloing.</div>

[Kikena]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> -Aonein- wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Suraklin wrote:<BR> <DIV> Is Smed pointing a gun at you guys to come up with this crap or did you actually think it up yourselves? </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Suraklin on <SPAN class=date_text>05-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:21 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>:smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>BOOOM HEAD SHOT.</P> <P>Man i had a good laugh here.</P> <P>Ive currently cancelled my 3 accounts, sorry SoE its been a fun 7 years with you and all but enough is just simply enough. Friend who left the gaming world of SoE years ago tried to warn me but i stuck it outi n good faith and loyalty to SoE that they would one day create something decent, this game is just getting worse and worse by the Live Update.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I can understand your frustration. After LU #13 Guards took a nose-dive and I decided to stick it out for the sake of not being a quitter and giving the company a chance.</P> <P>If the next LU comes and the guard changes prove not effective or, imo, it adversely affects my gameplay, I might turn in my account as well. And no, you can't have my stuff. :smileytongue:</P> <P>The most intense and obvious investment anyone puts into the game is time. When the investment turns from enjoyment to frustration and angst it's time to move on.</P>

[Akour]

<DIV>Before SS Necromancer DPS was laughable, then you folks took the time to tweek and fix them, when I decided to come back to EQ2 I did a hell of a lot of research, to find out that Necromancers, (the class that I quit because at lvl 50 our spells were doing like 32 damage a tick) were now some of the best DPS in the game.  I took the time to lvl a Necromancer from 1 to 70, and now your going to tell me it is a fluke that they are any good and nerf the hell out of them.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is the 2nd substantial nerf in a month or so to summoner classes, if you don't want us to be dps then you need to give us some sort of true utility, or else there is no real reason for the class.  We have debuffs, that aren't substantial, our heal, is just that one heal, so that wouldn't be utility, our buffs, the two group ones we get aren't anything worth bragging about.  Hearts in this game are nearly useless, the amount of mana given from the 61 master heart is laughable, so please explain to me what use Necromancers are if they can't lay down some decent dps.  Thats all I want to know, I want to know what purpose Necromancers have, you could say rezing on raids, but our rez is once every 60 sec, again making it usefull, but not truely raid beneficial.  Wizards already have rediculous burst damage, so if I as a Necromancer can beat them in DPS over a fight that lasts threw that burst, then I don't see whats wrong.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You want to fix something in this game SOE, why not take the time to change resists, the fact that any spell can have 80% absorbtion, and people can get nearly if not all resists that high at T7, yet a caster class is lucky if they have 10% absorbtion of any melee skill resists.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Explain to me what Necromancers true purpose is in this game, and then I will better understand why you keep nerfing them.  Your fixes may even out the lower lvls, but the high end Necromancer is being destroyed.</DIV>

[Kodros]

<div><blockquote><hr>Loki_d20 wrote:<div>I don't even consider soloing with my brigand considering it's too dangerous and results in very little reward (that and I like to finish quests while they're green).</div><hr></blockquote>You clearly don't know how to play as a brig then...</div>

[Tallika_Runwithbears]

- Spells that summon stationary objects will cause hate towards the caster instead of the object.what does this mean???   which class can summon stationary objects in this game??<div></div>

[Kodros]

<div><blockquote><hr>Loki_d20 wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Kodros wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Warpax wrote:<b>Scout changes:</b> - Scout: Cheap Shot: slightly reduced power cost. Duration is 4s instead of 6s on standard or weaker opponents.<font color="#ff3399"><font size="4">Either this needs to be changed back or you either need to reduce the cast time on all scout</font></font> <font size="4"><font color="#ff3399">class Sneaks. Cheap Shot is a </font></font><u><font color="#ffcc33" size="4"><i><i>necessary</i></i></font></u><font color="#ffcc33" size="4"><font color="#ff0099"> ability for any solo play and with these changes you have effectively destroyed this play tactic.</font><i><i><font color="#ff0099"></font></i></i></font><div></div><hr></blockquote> I didn't use once between the levels of 15 - 69 and I did great solo'ing.  It's not necessary.  How and why are you linking Sneaks up with Cheap shot?</div><hr></blockquote>Depends on your scout class.  My brigand doesn't rely on sneak attack since his best positional attacks don't require stealth.  But, as an assassin or a ranger (played a while ago, though), I can say that it is not only possibe (easily at that) but mandatory for maximization of damage potential when solo to use the lie low/stealth and sneak attack method.  Otherwise, both classes are left with using their normal or sub-par melee (and some ranged) options when soloing.</div><hr></blockquote>Ahh, yeah...I'm so used to just using Lie Low to start my sneak attacks.  I think each scout class has some form of this...not sure why they would use regular sneak.  Also, if the sneak attack CA isn't positional, you can use it from the front.  There is a pretty good chance that you will get the Sneak attack CA off before sneak wears off...I do it all the time.  </div>

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tallika_Runwithbears wrote:<BR>- Spells that summon stationary objects will cause hate towards the caster instead of the object.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>what does this mean???   which class can summon stationary objects in this game??<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Warden trees I assume.

[Cabose]

<P>LU24 FTL. I suppose this is a good time for many of us to try a new game, or even... get a girlfriend and spend less time infront of the computer... hahahahahaha. Like I was saying, time to try a new game.</P>

[Loki_d20]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Kodros wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Loki_d20 wrote:<div>I don't even consider soloing with my brigand considering it's too dangerous and results in very little reward (that and I like to finish quests while they're green).</div><hr></blockquote>You clearly don't know how to play as a brig then...</div><hr></blockquote>Sure I do.  You just don't have enough facts to know where and what I'm fighting and what I consider 'worthwhile.'  But, I see that you brought up all that strategy on how to play one with your argument...My soloing is dangerous because of where I need to go for quests, it's not dangerous because I can't solo.  I'd rather spend less time having to break encounters and running for my life when I get an add or three and spend more time just killing those adds when they interrupt my combat with a heroic group of mobs.Truthfully, playing a brigand intelligently, or almost any class in this game for that matter, doesn't require much intelligence.  Just an understanding on your abilities, which seem fairly basic overall.  If fighting one opponent, you can easily knock even or lesser cons down to size without much of a battle.  Yellow and orange require you getting hit, but can be done as well.  Heroics are tricky and, like always, vary from heroic to heroic.  Heroic named typically are a no go unless it's a non-caster named.  But, I have no interest in non-heroic mobs and I have no interest in spending my time working hard against a mob 5-8 levels below me and worrying about adds when I can do so much better by dual boxing and fight more relaxed and faster or even take on more challenging and rewarding opponents when they are available.My two options are, solo:Stealth -> rake -> stun -> backattack -> flank -> deception -> ho -> def debuff -> subdue -> run through -> ho -> def debuff -> flurry -> gouge -> ho -> stun -> stay low -> sneak backattack -> flank -> etc.group:Group Stealth -> rake -> circle strike -> deception -> ward -> DoT w/poison debuff -> DoT w/wis debuff -> stun -> backattack -> flank -> debuff all -> dehaste/dps -> re--ward -> ho start -> def debuff -> subdue -> run through -> re-DoT w/poison debuff -> ho -> deb def -> flurry -> gouge -> DoT w/poison -> DD w/debuff -> deb all -> dehaste/dsp -> etc.In the first, I'm taking on some way low-mid level green heroics (not named).  On the second, I'm taking on blue heroic groups (and named high green heroics).  Obviously my choice to go for harder opponents points to my lack of knowing how to play my class.  Eventually, I'll get to being able to take on even-con heroics, but I'm not at that level yet and I need a few more upgrades (treasured gear isn't the best for difficult opponents).But, what do I know, I'm sure every other brigand is soloing even con heroics on their own.</div><p>Message Edited by Loki_d20 on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:12 PM</span>

[Kyru]

I love my fury, but [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] SoE I want everyone else to love their class just as much.  Have a heart!

[Rominian]

It is apparent to me that SOE wants enchanters to be the only viable Crowd Control class.  I see from posts that most roots etc from the other mage classes, as well as stuns are being severely reduced.  As an enchanter I can see where this makes some sense, as WE are supposed to be crowd control, but to do this so far into the game, causing players to have to reinvent themselves yet again, is poorly thought out.  We enchanters are getting some things that will affect raid targets, but again my point is that right now, with nothing affecting epic mobs, guilds that raid are successfully killing the epic encounters and beating the epic zones.  I see nothing in this mess that makes us more desireable or sought after.  The Devs are using us as an excuse to once again "fix" classes and change their abilities.  Enchanters are able to solo some mobs that others cannot attempt, only because of our stuns and mezzes.  These spells are having huge increases in casting times, as well as shorter duration and more resistability.  I somehow think that SOE has seen how some classes have been able to solo heroic encounters, and is taking steps to make that impossible.  All I can say is, if you find something that works well, dont post it on your forums, as the devs do look at them, and take away your abiliity to do it anymore.  Its amazing how they can "fix" things like that so fast, and still havent fixed many of the bugs that have been in game since it was created.

[Neldoreth]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div> - Bruiser: <font color="#ff00ff"><b>Sucker Punch</b></font>: Knockdown changed to <b><font color="#ff00ff">Daze</font></b> effect.oh no...not the sucker punch!!! pleeease<img src="http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8876/soe5xt.jpg"> <b></b></blockquote></div><p>Message Edited by Neldoreth on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:38 PM</span>

[Yeoux]

<DIV>I'm playing a Conjuror since day 1 of EQ2 and when I done class quest at lvl 10 they never said "You won't be DPS, you won't be usefull.....you'll only be someone in the game to fill empty spot"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bring me back there and add this, I won't choose to be Conjuror or better give me right to respect as a Wizzard or Illusionist because I have right to have fun in this game.....hey! I'm paying too!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I played almost a year broken, then they fixed us with the Combat revamp and now they plan to bring us back pre-revamp..... NO WAY!</DIV><p>Message Edited by Yeoux on <span class=date_text>09-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:45 PM</span>

[TaleraRis]

<blockquote><hr>aislynn00 wrote: <div>My wife solos blue-con heroics with her ranger alt without any issues whatsoever.  It looks ridiculously easy when she does it and doesn't require any kind of stun.</div> <p>Use poisons.  Use the highest quality arrow you have access to.  Make sure you have a good bow, such as the Grizzfazzle quested one, or have one made by a woodworker (harvesting a rare wood isn't particularly hard for a solo ranger.)  Use Thorny Trap right before you pull, if possible.  Pull the mob with a high-damage arrow and make sure it paths across your trap, so it becomes rooted.  Get a snare on the mob and try to keep it there until the mob dies.  Stick to ranged attacks.  When not rooted, kite the mob and keep firing arrows as you run in a circle.</p> <p> </p><hr></blockquote>I'm 50. No Thorny Trap, only snare spells. I do use poisons. That's another facet that is bread and butter to being a ranger. I have one of every crafting class but armorer and I provide myself with spell ugprades, food, poisons my melee weapons and bow. I try to stay as adequately geared as I can manage. Your wife has obviously mastered the kiting tactic. While this can be viable, in many places I go to solo, it's not due to adds. SS is a great example of this. Any time I try to kite there, I end up getting an add. There just aren't enough open spaces that don't have mobs pathing through them. Lavastorm suffers from a similar problem. I usually end up hunting solo no arrows in Everfrost if I'm out grinding (very rarely, as I like to quest) and I do fine on them, but I do need to use Cheap Shot to maximize my damage output by being able to use my positional attacks. 2 seconds is going to affect my solo ability. And the change is rather irritating after it comes on the heels, as many other rangers have mentioned on our own boards, of the change to a root rather than a DoT on our Lunging line to help improve our solo capabilities and our ability to keep the mob at a distance. That's the key to our damage and our survival. Our melee skills are pitiful, and hindered even more so because the majority of them require stealth, being behind the mob or some even require both. Now these changes will handicap our ability to keep mobs at a distance or allow us to move away to use our skills to the best advantage.  <div></div>

[ted]

<P>ENOUGH IS ENOUGH STOP THE [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] NERFS! what fun is it when you cant solo anymore, 2, 3 people complain you nerf that class so badly that toon becomes worthless.  It is getting out of hand, no class will ever be balanced and it should be left something like this if you want to solo pick a summon class/scout.  if you want to be stuck to groups all the time healer/tank. hmmm big thought there. </P> <P>Lets nerf troub again, no DPS, charm is worthless, and Aria is worthless (our main DPS in groups) which is all being taken away! well now isnt that just great.</P> <P>necro cant solo more than a even now (thanks). pally you all are some uber healers now. fury not only can u heal me but be my DPS please! conj we should all become u now since necro's are useless and you made out well. chanters thats cool ur still worthless. wizards boy can u all dps. guards nothing beats a group with one. templars can i get a heal please?bruiser boy for a tank that is some nice DPS.</P> <P>Here is a thought lets turn it back to the orginal EQ2 that was a great idea, it was fun, nerf a class just to see someone restart is going to lose many people... Lets not forget what happened to EQ1! pretty much died when the same thing happened (hope ur ready for it again because if this keeps happening I highly doubt many are going to pay for a game where every class part timers plays becomes useless)!</P> <P>Get the hell with it EQ and start thinking about these [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] changes. I am one [Removed for Content] off player to hear yet again for the 4th time i picked the wrong class!</P>

[Cabose]

<DIV>I think the devs will be kicking their [Removed for Content] when they see the days report 24 hours after making this go live. I mean... once half of us leave they can just condense servers and blame it on having more zones for people to be in.... again. </DIV>

[IceCoil]

When is the update will be avilible on Regular sever?

[Sarkoris]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Neldoreth wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackguard wrote:<BR> <BR>- Bruiser: <FONT color=#ff00ff><B>Sucker Punch</B></FONT>: Knockdown changed to <B><FONT color=#ff00ff>Daze</FONT></B> effect.<BR><BR><BR><BR>oh no...not the sucker punch!!! pleeease<BR><BR><IMG src="http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8876/soe5xt.jpg"><BR><B><BR></B></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Neldoreth on <SPAN class=date_text>05-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:38 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I can live with it being a daze, but has the extra damage from the merciless stomp line been changed to do the extra damage if a mob has been recently dazed ? Or can we only get the extra damage on haymaker now ?</P> <P>Sarkn on behalf of Baneclaw the Iksar Bruiser.</P>

[greenloon]

<P>I cannot speak for any of the other changes in LU24 as I only play a Ranger, so I apologize for not addressing others issues as well.  I have no problems with nerfs when they make sense and are needed, even if they hurt, in fact, I welcome them.  That said, I cannot for the life of me figure out the reasoning behing the cheap shot nerf?  It seems like nothing more than a colossaly bad idea that will do nothing but render the skill virtually useless, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] any possibility of viable soloing for most scouts (definitely Rangers) and completely disenfranchise and alienate loyal players of EQ2.</P> <P>Please, for the love of god and all holy, DON'T GO THROUGH WITH THE CHEAPSHOT CHANGES!  It is not a wise idea.</P> <P>I have been playing since release and this is my first post...I find the issue important enough to drag my antisocial [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] into the forums.</P> <P>PS The very least SOE could do if they plan on laying down the hurt on us is give us some kinda explaination as to the thought process behind the heinous changes.</P>

[DobyMT]

You won't get a response.I did the live chat thing, and send in several questions, as I'm sure MOSt of the 360 people in there did,They don't feel as though you deserve a response, so they are gonna ignore you. This sucks universally, and I know alot of players who are just not gonna log in again after LU 24. Sony doing things like this is like a crack dealer punching the person in the face each time he buys some crack. It really sucks for the guy buying the crack, but he does it daily outta habit. This is gonna suck universally for the entire playerbase.I can't find a positive in it. Well, there's my current rant, I'm ranting that this update sucks for EVERYONE.

[S]

<DIV>The only way SOE will listen if we all collectivally cancel our accounts when this patch goes Live. We can all re-open the accounts if they reverse most/all the nerfs, and our characters will still be there, but nothing will happen unless we take this necessary step and stop just warning SOE about it.</DIV> <DIV>My accounts will be canceled when this update hits the Live servers, I hope many others will join me in doing so.</DIV>

[Inebriation]

Umm. Question: If you get enough negative feedback does that mean you will consider re-stating the changes or are we just here to complain about what we cannot change and take it like lilttle [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]es? <div></div>

[Inebriation]

<div></div> Hell yeah, man. Come play Vanguard with me. o_O <div></div> <div></div>

[greenloon]

So I guess just hoping common sense will prevail and many of these changes will never make it to the "actual" LU24 is a pipe dream?  This is so sad.<p>Message Edited by greenloon on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:29 PM</span>

[S]

<P>No, I don't believe anything said on these forums will have any effect on the patch. This patch will most definately make it to Live, and only by canceling our accounts on masse, will we deliver any sort of message to SOE. If you'd like, send a quick /feedback to them right before canceling the account telling them "I'm canceling my account because of LU24." Don't bother going into detail, it's better they see several thousand of those short little messages than simply deleting several thousand long explanations without reading them. Everything that has to be said has been said on these forums, and if they're curious, they will come here.</P> <P>I'm already dead-set on this. I know I can always re-activate my account if they actually reverse the changes in the next patch, and my characters will still be there waiting for me. And all it will cost me is some lost playing time, but I'll use the $50 (for 2 accounts, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you new Station Access price) I save on something nice.</P>

[prince_sd]

<div><blockquote><hr>Inebriation wrote:<div></div> Hell yeah, man. Come play Vanguard with me. o_O <div></div> <div></div><hr></blockquote>No man. Not vanguard. That is again an SOE game and they do this to all their games. Wow despite the kids running everywhere looks promising i think.</div>

[Mishkel]

<P>"The only way SOE will listen if we all collectivally cancel our accounts when this patch goes Live. We can all re-open the accounts if they reverse most/all the nerfs, and our characters will still be there, but nothing will happen unless we take this necessary step and stop just warning SOE about it."</P> <P>I got a 6 letter answer for you on that.</P> <P>SWG NGE</P> <P>They seem to be more than happy with the arterial bleed out in subscribers in that game.  No matter how many have left saying to roll back or they won't come back.</P> <P>SOE just keeps chanting "its for the long term good of the game even with the short term pain".</P> <P>imho 6 months of almost no player base and no sight or any returning is not short term pain.</P> <P>So to cut it short the move you suggest doesn't seem to work either...</P> <P> </P>

[Tokam]

<P>Not sure until this goes live - but I cant see much of a use for necromancer tank pets any more. Unless the heal is doing 1k or more every 6 secs then all they have achieved is to further weaken the aggro control of the pet - whilst ignoring aggro, hp and mitigation  bugs that were introduced a few LUs ago and only assumed to be bugs because they were never mentioned in the patch notes or explained on the forums.</P> <P>Most likely I will be using the scout pet defensivley buffed, avoidance tanking for the win!! At least the scout pet consistantly and predictably maintains a certain level of aggro for me to work under.</P>

[Kri]

<blockquote><hr>SXO wrote:<div>The only way SOE will listen if we all collectivally cancel our accounts when this patch goes Live. We can all re-open the accounts if they reverse most/all the nerfs, and our characters will still be there, but nothing will happen unless we take this necessary step and stop just warning SOE about it.</div><div>My accounts will be canceled when this update hits the Live servers, I hope many others will join me in doing so.</div><hr></blockquote>I predict that the second the patch hits the live servers people will start adjusting to the new situation and 3 days later only a handful of people will still be complaining about the nerfs. Lots of people huff and puff about cancelling their accounts but very few do. Reason? EQ2 is much more than combat arts and overall effectiveness of any given class. Most of what makes EQ2 a difficult habit to kick will still be present even after the nerfs. It's of course important that people voice their opinions but empty threats of quitting will lead absolutely nowhere.

[Tro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Akourns wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>Before SS Necromancer DPS was laughable, then you folks took the time to tweek and fix them, when I decided to come back to EQ2 I did a hell of a lot of research, to find out that Necromancers, (the class that I quit because at lvl 50 our spells were doing like 32 damage a tick) were now some of the best DPS in the game.  I took the time to lvl a Necromancer from 1 to 70, and now your going to tell me it is a fluke that they are any good and nerf the hell out of them.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>This is the 2nd substantial nerf in a month or so to summoner classes, if you don't want us to be dps then you need to give us some sort of true utility, or else there is no real reason for the class.  We have debuffs, that aren't substantial, our heal, is just that one heal, so that wouldn't be utility, our buffs, the two group ones we get aren't anything worth bragging about.  Hearts in this game are nearly useless, the amount of mana given from the 61 master heart is laughable, so please explain to me what use Necromancers are if they can't lay down some decent dps.  Thats all I want to know, I want to know what purpose Necromancers have, you could say rezing on raids, but our rez is once every 60 sec, again making it usefull, but not truely raid beneficial.  Wizards already have rediculous burst damage, so if I as a Necromancer can beat them in DPS over a fight that lasts threw that burst, then I don't see whats wrong.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You want to fix something in this game SOE, why not take the time to change resists, the fact that any spell can have 80% absorbtion, and people can get nearly if not all resists that high at T7, yet a caster class is lucky if they have 10% absorbtion of any melee skill resists.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Explain to me what Necromancers true purpose is in this game, and then I will better understand why you keep nerfing them.  Your fixes may even out the lower lvls, but the high end Necromancer is being destroyed.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Pretty much sums it up..<BR>

[Tro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rominian wrote:<BR> It is apparent to me that SOE wants enchanters to be the only viable Crowd Control class.  I see from posts that most roots etc from the other mage classes, as well as stuns are being severely reduced.  As an enchanter I can see where this makes some sense, as WE are supposed to be crowd control, but to do this so far into the game, causing players to have to reinvent themselves yet again, is poorly thought out.  We enchanters are getting some things that will affect raid targets, but again my point is that right now, with nothing affecting epic mobs, guilds that raid are successfully killing the epic encounters and beating the epic zones.  I see nothing in this mess that makes us more desireable or sought after.  The Devs are using us as an excuse to once again "fix" classes and change their abilities.  Enchanters are able to solo some mobs that others cannot attempt, only because of our stuns and mezzes.  These spells are having <FONT color=#ff0033>huge increases in casting times</FONT>, as well as <FONT color=#ff0033>shorter duration</FONT> and <FONT color=#ff0033>more resistability</FONT>.  I somehow think that SOE has seen how some classes have been able to solo heroic encounters, and is taking steps to make that impossible.  All I can say is, if you find something that works well, dont post it on your forums, as the devs do look at them, and take away your abiliity to do it anymore.  Its amazing how they can "fix" things like that so fast, and still havent fixed many of the bugs that have been in game since it was created.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If you have been here from before LU13 to now you would understand that they only have one month between LU's so instead of fine tweaking spells then testing them would take far longer than a month. You see they are on a schedule so it is easier to nerf many aspects of a spell at once than to change only one aspect at a time and test. This is the way the Devs have chosen to test stuff.. Again, they have only one month to test it so they choose the easier way so they don't have to hold off to the next Month. God forbid they extend LUI24 testing another month to allow more specific testing.. Oh no can't do that.</P> <P>This Philosophy(SP?) has been with the SoE Operations team since the release of the game. "Hurry up and get it out the door, no delay, no delay). They mention "Combat Changes" so I can assume this is the second part of the LU-13 Combat revamp. Nice work there Devs .. very nice.. 19 months after relasee you are just now "Fixing" your screwup from before EQ2's release.  But like I said, this is the way they do it. I hope to hell Sigil is watching this f'ing mess and learning from it or any other game company for that matter.  </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Graffix_75]

Everytime I come back, the nerf bat swings. Guess it's partly my fault for coming back as well but it's purely because of the limited options we all currently have, which will be changing soon as MMOs get more and more popular. I probably will be cancelling again once LU24 goes live, depends on how much FUN is taken out of the game, for the [lost count]'th time. <div></div>

[Graffix_75]

<blockquote><hr>Krith wrote:<blockquote><hr>I predict that the second the patch hits the live servers people will start adjusting to the new situation and 3 days later only a handful of people will still be complaining about the nerfs. Lots of people huff and puff about cancelling their accounts but very few do. Reason? EQ2 is much more than combat arts and overall effectiveness of any given class. Most of what makes EQ2 a difficult habit to kick will still be present even after the nerfs. It's of course important that people voice their opinions but empty threats of quitting will lead absolutely nowhere. </blockquote><hr></blockquote> Yea a good amount of people that threaten to cancel dont end up doing it. However some do, I've done it in the past, in fact half my guild did and none of them have returned besides me and I suspect I'll be doing it again soon.<div></div>

[Lordviperscorpian]

I lvoe how the devs only answered about the new expansion last night. It was like asking the President if they found any WMD's over in iraq.  Might as well have made up the questions themselves.  [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] bags.<div></div>

[Mulilla]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Krith wrote:<BR><BR>I predict that the second the patch hits the live servers people will start adjusting to the new situation and 3 days later only a handful of people will still be complaining about the nerfs. Lots of people huff and puff about cancelling their accounts but very few do. Reason? EQ2 is much more than combat arts and overall effectiveness of any given class. Most of what makes EQ2 a difficult habit to kick will still be present even after the nerfs. It's of course important that people voice their opinions but empty threats of quitting will lead absolutely nowhere.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I swear i had always think like that.  I have suffered a few nerfs, a total class revamp in LU13, and some broken spells since day 0.  These things made me relearn to play my class a few times, but i noticed that with every new "change" my troub was becoming a bit more boring.  My skills suck a bit, my buffs & debuffs aren't so powerfull as a buffer class would expect, my dmg stinks... the most important thing because i didn't rerolled a new toon long time ago whas CC.  I know charm has its uses and it can be very handy and powerfull (especially when soloing), but what really saves my groupmates butts is mezzing.  I like it and i love being in tension looking at every possible angle to see if a roamer comes, taking care of that mob tha is hitting the priest's face, and so on.  And i dont want to reroll a chanter, my class description said that i was a SCOUT, who BUFFED, DEBUFFED and could take duties of CROWD CONTROL.  After next LU my troub wont be that anymore... therefore i will quit</P>

[Xa]

<P>Let us see how it pans out</P> <P>This is looking worryingly like NGE to me (SWG)</P> <P> </P> <P>EQ2 Devs</P> <P> </P> <P>DON'T DO IT.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Loki_d20]

I think there's a lot of anger and angst going on here and I'm sure no dev really wants to step in here since noone there is going to be able to answer all of our questions in the way that we want them answered.As for clarification, a lot of people are just screaming nerfs without really examining the changes.  Changes to cheap shot are better for swashies and brigands because now they can get off more than one positional attack against heroic mobs.  But, for assassins, it will require now just changing back to the tactic of using your back attack that takes you into stealth rather than going into stealth directly, and then sneak attacking.  This still allows for more attacks against heroics.  Conjurors and Necromancers?  DPS was expected to get cut back a bit, not only for groups but also for soloing situatioins where you could semi-kite mobs using a mage pet and your DoT spells/swams.  I didn't see the tank damage coming, and I feel that this truly hurts people who don't have adept III and master pets more than anyone else considering the damage on these pets as well as health is low enough to not be able to take on the challenges that others can.  DPS pets, not sure that was really needed for nerfing alongside the lowering of the best long-term spells that they have.  The only class I can see now as truly getting the shaft are Troubadours.  After their dps decrease and now a mass reduction on their CC and charming abilities (making charming now a very short-term CC ability and hurting their soloing capabilities by quite a bit), it's hard to not look at them as the second least played class and ask what it is they are supposed to really bring to a group let alone what they are going to rely on now that their dps has been cut in two ways and their CC reduced in a larger manner than any other class other than enchanters themself (in regards to grouping).I hope that someone from SOE does come and make a new post covering some of the questions that are presented here, but I also believe that some of these changes are hardly crippling one class or another, just forcing you to use one ability that you already have in place of another and in fact making it easier to solo heroics in some situations.   <div></div>

[Mishkel]

<P>"Oh I don't know, when my kids whine, I tend to ignore them too"</P> <P>I guess the real question would be...</P> <P>Do your kids pay you?  Does your ability to pay bills, eat and live somewhere depend on them?</P> <P>If it did and you ignored them long enough you may have more of a problem on your hand than whining kids.</P> <P>Not exactly the best example I can think of.  I have never see the mass exodus in EQ2 that I saw in SWG.  However, if SOE did push enough buttons to make as many quit EQ1/2 as they did there...</P> <P>We'd be looking at a tad different situation.</P>

[Gorl]

<P>I like the changes.. main is a shadow knight.. and there is almost nothing listed for them.. lol.. plus no sub combines, now i can try out other tradeskills, provisioner was getting boring.  But better than making 10 million differect things to make a bag or piece of armor.</P> <P>i had to post, since so many whiners were posting, i needed to stand up for soe.</P>

[DobyMT]

<blockquote><hr>Gorlim wrote:<P>I like the changes.. main is a shadow knight.. and there is almost nothing listed for them.. lol.. plus no sub combines, now i can try out other tradeskills, provisioner was getting boring.  But better than making 10 million differect things to make a bag or piece of armor.</P><P>i had to post, since so many whiners were posting, i needed to stand up for soe.</P><hr></blockquote>Out of the masses, there bound to be a FEW fanboys. Enjoy your SK, most of us will be dpsing right next to you on raids now.<p>Message Edited by DobyMT on <span class=date_text>05-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:47 AM</span>

[Gorl]

<DIV>on a side note, the game is far too easy.  please make combat better, encounter harders, battles longer, and attacks and spells more violent and psychotic.  encounters need more mobs..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It should be a group of players (6) against amries of mobs (10, 20, 30, 200 mobs).. you raid runnyeye, expects an army of goblins from the momment you enter till either the group wipes and everything in the zone has been slautered.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardians should be getting beat to hell,</DIV> <DIV>Berserkers should be smashing thur mobs and throwing them around,</DIV> <DIV>monk and brusiers should be busting out the killer fighter attacks,</DIV> <DIV>SK should be commanding the dark arts while causeing damage and suffering,</DIV> <DIV>Palys should be out in the midst of battles, fighting off small stuff and healing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bards need to be doing more to make others better killers,</DIV> <DIV>Assassins need to tearing the hell out of mobs from the shadows,</DIV> <DIV>Rangers should be vollying a mass amount of magical arrows apon whole encounter,</DIV> <DIV>Rougues should be stealing and passing off aggro to others while doing damage</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizards should be dropping bombs, Warlocks weighting waste to armies of mobs.</DIV> <DIV>Summers commonding better / badly / dangious pets.. not this little stupid little things.  conjour summons mighty minions, larger that players, Necros summon armies of undead</DIV> <DIV>chanters should be mezzing, charming, and should never be touched by anything, period.. they control the minds of others, they should almost never be attack, but do little damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>clerics doing massive heals and buff, dropping mit,</DIV> <DIV>druid regen, raining down natures waith, dropping speed</DIV> <DIV>shamans warding increased, debuffs, buffs, dropping stats</DIV> <DIV>More rezes all around</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Have a MMO with friece battles, tactics, and fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taking out a dragon should be a challenge, dragon flinges guardian 100 yards away.  Rips the monk in half.  Eats a mage.</DIV> <DIV>Wizard blast fire dragon with ice, dragons thrown back hard....  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>maybe 10th generation mmo will be better... </DIV>

[Jooneau]

They could do all that by making monsters more social when it comes to aggro, but that would kill the game for people who like to solo.

[Jooneau]

<blockquote><hr>Mishkel wrote:<P>"Oh I don't know, when my kids whine, I tend to ignore them too"</P><P>I guess the real question would be...</P><P>Do your kids pay you?  Does your ability to pay bills, eat and live somewhere depend on them?</P><P>If it did and you ignored them long enough you may have more of a problem on your hand than whining kids.</P><P>Not exactly the best example I can think of.  I have never see the mass exodus in EQ2 that I saw in SWG.  However, if SOE did push enough buttons to make as many quit EQ1/2 as they did there...</P><P>We'd be looking at a tad different situation.</P><hr></blockquote>EQ2 has never had enough customers to have a "mass exodus," [Removed for Content]. You want an MMO with a real subscription base? Look at WoW or Lineage. When it comes to number of customers, EQ2 is weak sauce compared to those games.

[Warpax]

<font color="#ff0099">it seems like the EQ2 dev team is taking turns passing around the eq2 "vision" for this game. it seems like every other month fundementals are changed..whose turn is next and what will be there great idea I wonder...What good is thinking of your games "longterm" health if you drive away everyone by playing hot potatoe with the game mechanics...</font><div></div>

[Mishkel]

<P>"EQ2 has never had enough customers to have a "mass exodus," [Removed for Content]. You want an MMO with a real subscription base? Look at WoW or Lineage. When it comes to number of customers, EQ2 is weak sauce compared to those games."</P> <P>I don't think you quite understand as your example has nothing to do with what I was saying.</P> <P>It has nothing to do with comparing populations of the various games.</P> <P>It has to do with SOE or ANY company that depends on subscriptions to pay the bills.  If you lose xx% of your player base its a mass exodus to your company.  That's all it meant.  </P> <P>Basicly as others have stated any MMO is optional form of entertainment.  Devs can tell us how much better they know all around game play.  If the majority of players do not agree and cancel... I guess the Devs didn't know that much afterall.  If its not fun its not worth paying for imho.</P> <P>Being "fun" would vary from person to person.  Just depends on what the majority are going to find 'fun'.</P>

[c00nd]

<P>- Warden: Verdurous Journey: removed upgrade information and spell scrolls.<BR></P> <P>If I have a master scroll for this spell, should I sell it now to the broker before it is deleted from my inventory?</P>

[WAPCE]

<blockquote><hr>c00nd0g wrote: <P>- Warden: Verdurous Journey: removed upgrade information and spell scrolls.<BR></P> <P>If I have a master scroll for this spell, should I sell it now to the broker before it is deleted from my inventory?</P><hr></blockquote> I would recommend doing so. That's what happened to all the invisibility spell upgrades when LU13 went live (except for a couple that led to some pretty sweet speed bugs when scribed).

[Inebriation]

Here's another question: Why is SOE making these changes? Are there seriously enough complaints to make these certain changes? Because I guarantee there are more people who would want this update to cease or change direction then to go live. <div></div>

[tracheaspider]

<P><SPAN>I don't know why SOE can't get it straight: players want predictable mechanics and unpredictable content.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Sure, they have to think about the health of the game, but, uh, I always thought alienating the player base regularly with sweeping changes was bad for the health of the game too?<SPAN>  </SPAN><img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></P>

[Dyse]

<P>Chris Rock said in one of his concerts. "I love Rap music, but I'm tired of defending it"</P> <P>Well, I love EQ2, but if this goes through, I won't defend it any longer.</P> <P>Is making battles last 3 times or more longer the effect SOE is going for?  Making Heroic mobs seem like Epic?  Why not just increase the MOB stats instead of decreasing ours.</P> <P>Matrix Online lost me due to crap.<BR>SWG Lost me due to huge crap.<BR>EQ2 is the last man standing before I jump ship altogether.  Live Nerf #24 needs to be nerfed itself.</P> <P>My 2 copper</P> <P> </P> <P>ps.  Buttering us up with Double XP so we can get higher and do less, isn't KMA well enough for this nerf.</P><p>Message Edited by Dyse on <span class=date_text>05-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:31 PM</span>

[TrentKillcu]

My very serious question, all nerf whining aside is the following:As stated previously PvE combat in EQ2 was built around all the stuns that were in the game which gave the mobs the ability to "spike" damage if they had the chance to hit back.  Is this going to be modified since the stuns are all going to be shortened?  I would hate to see spike dps from mobs coming a lot more and not having any way to deal with it other than needing two healers for a group.I just want to know if this is being changed also along with the stuns?Thank you.<div></div>

[4lta]

<DIV>all i can say is LOL ...way to go SoE .....might aswell jus close the servers now after a few more LUs everyone will be the same class with the same spells and all wear plate cause thats all that drops anyways HAHA thx once again Sony.....when will you guys learn from your mistakes ....wait you dont make any and all the updates arent nerfs they are added content ...BTW ThornyTrap still dosent work LOL...good thing you nerfed it again sence no1 uses it currently jus erase it from the Ca list that would be more usefull nerf ...thx but no thx soe you have gone NERF MAD with this game /bye </DIV>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mishkel wrote:<BR> <P>"EQ2 has never had enough customers to have a "mass exodus," [Removed for Content]. You want an MMO with a real subscription base? Look at WoW or Lineage. When it comes to number of customers, EQ2 is weak sauce compared to those games."</P> <P>I don't think you quite understand as your example has nothing to do with what I was saying.</P> <P>It has nothing to do with comparing populations of the various games.</P> <P>It has to do with SOE or ANY company that depends on subscriptions to pay the bills.  If you lose xx% of your player base its a mass exodus to your company.  That's all it meant.  </P> <P>Basicly as others have stated any MMO is optional form of entertainment.  Devs can tell us how much better they know all around game play.  If the majority of players do not agree and cancel... I guess the Devs didn't know that much afterall.  If its not fun its not worth paying for imho.</P> <P>Being "fun" would vary from person to person.  Just depends on what the majority are going to find 'fun'.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I think he was refering to your use of the phrase "mass exodus". There just isnt enough people playing this game to create that, even from a business point of view for the simple fact, you have to remember the game is attached to what is it now? 7 other games in Station Access? So even if the game did bum out and have a very small population, the other games that are going ok from a business stand point, which means making money, will support this game, it just means they would lay off on the support and quaility control of this game, thats all.</P> <P>Also remember that Vanguard is going to be put into the Station Access of games also, now as we all know SoE have nothing to do with the development side of things when it comes to Vanguard, but they will be recieveing a royalty from Sigil for the Marketing, Billing and Tech Support of the game, the more people that play Vanguard, the better it is for both Sigil and SoE.</P> <P>SoE know there going to lose players to Vanguard, they cant stop them, but they sure as hell can try and retain them as customers thats for sure, and thats exactally what they have done. From a business point of view, its a perfect solution, why try and compete with games like WoW and Lineage 2 with their huge subscription base with just EQ2 when you can do it with multiple games tied into one package for one premium price? A higher price i might add then games like WoW and Lineage 2, the only thing it comes down to is, is quaility the same?</P> <P>From my personal experience, the quaility on the other side of the fence is better, why? Lets look at a few facts.</P> <P><STRONG><U>Lineage 2</U></STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>One standard monthly fee of $14.99 a month or $10.99 a month if you subscribe for a year. <STRONG><U>All</U></STRONG> expasion packs <U>and</U> content patchs are free every 6 months for expasions, and when they decide to add content, wether it be world wide events or tournaments.</LI></UL> <P><STRONG><U>WoW</U></STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>One standard monthly fee of $14.99 ( i think, correct me if im wrong but i think it might also be $15.99 ). <STRONG><U>All</U></STRONG> content patchs are free, and i think you pay for expasions, im not sure and im too lazy to goto thier site.</LI></UL> <P><STRONG><U>SoE ( Everquest 2 )</U></STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>Standard monthly rate of $14.99, <U>BUT</U> can only have 6 players max. <STRONG><U>No</U></STRONG> content packs OR Expasions. Have to pay extra for features such as EQ2players.com statistics for a extra $3. </LI> <LI>A Station Access pass at $24.99 for access to a variety of games, unlock two extra player creation slots, Content packs included ( which its not really if all you do is play EQ2, you just get the convienence of not having to make a seperate purchase for the content itself ). Still have to pay extra for EQ2players.com features and statistics for a extra $3.</LI></UL> <P>The big catcher for most EQ2 players is the Two extra player creation slots, how many people do you think play EQ2 and only EQ2 but are forced to pay the high subscription rate just for 2 extra character slots? Especially casual players who like to dabble in many characters? Also, how many people do you think only play EQ2 and pay for the higher subscription rate just for the convienence of not having to do another seperate transaction online for Adventure Packs? Im one of those people and i have 3 accounts, my entire guild ( well whats left of it now ) was all doing the same thing, which by the way, doesnt matter anyway, cause im still paying for it, people say that Station Access gets you the Adventure Packs for Free? Wrong, it just saves you time, nothing else, in my case anyways.</P> <P>Now, before someone calls me out here because i know someone will, yes SoE have been adding content lately, but you have to ask yourself why, when you see what other succesful games are offering its not hard but to wonder why, and also one has to wonder was the content there just adding now meant to be added at release and they ran out of time implementing it so they went with what they had until the rest was finished and then had us test drive the new content as paying customers? I dont know about you guys, but i tend to lean towards a bit of both.</P> <P>Lets look at this from another perspective in the game, plat farmers. SoE instead of tackling it head on and trying to defeat the problem, well, its un-defeatable but you can sure as hell minimize it, but they just decide to jump on the band wagon and join them, after all, Smedly did say it was a multi-million dollar a year organization and a few months later, Station Exchange servers go live, must of been money in it, right Smed? In other words, they go from fighting the plat farmers, to welcoming them with open arms while claiming a royalty for offering the service. Lineage 2 on the other hand go to the extremes of having acual anti-adena farming teams, people who are part of a team that go around and cause grief to adena farmers because its a open PvP game, adena farmers are usually easily dealt with, but they roam in mass, so your usally taking on a army of farmers, not 4 or 6.</P> <P>You would of thought with the success that Lineage 2 and WoW have had, they would of jumped straight onto the Station Exchange idea that SoE introduced into the MMO world, there has to be a obvious reason why they didnt which is staring people in the face. Especially WoW and Lineage 2 if you acually knew how big their populations really are. Bigger the population, the more people that buy ingame money making it a bigger demand.</P> <P>Point is, SoE is just money hungry, and from my personal point of view, i dont think they have the player base to be putting customers in this postion, i think its just very greedy, hence is the reason this company wont have a "mass exodus", because if this game fails, they can probally keep it afloat with the royalty from Vangaurd. Thats why you see alot of smaller companys that go belly up trying to make it out here, because most rely on one game only, if it goes bad, they arent backed by a multiple of games they can siphon cash from to keep another afloat.</P><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>05-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:09 PM</span>

[Khadi]

<P>Hello all !  </P> <P>I was convinced that this game would be as good as Everquest 1.  I had full faith that SoE would make a great game like the original Everquest.  I convinced all of my real life friends that play MMO's to start toons in EQ2.  Six of us started.  I am the last one left, and was defending the game once again in this recent expansion.  I have two accounts.  I read the update #24 a few nights ago.  </P> <P>Unfortunately, my main is a Troubador.  Life as a Troubador since day one has taken many different turns.  This class has totally changed three times already, now, the class takes on another path in this latest update.</P> <P>I have finally had it with this game.  I have no idea what a Troubador class will be like in a few months, but I am convinced it will take on many other faces before they figure out what they are after...  I had fun with this game for a year, so it wasn't wasted, just a big disappointment.  I spent a lot of time on my character getting him to 70, getting my jeweler to 70...   I was hoping there was a reward at the end of the rainbow for working hard on my character, instead, I am rewarded with persistent changes that dramatically change my class each time...  Yes, I want to cuss... I really wanted this game to be better...</P> <P>SoE nerfed my account with this latest update #24.  Actually, they save me $30 plus each month for both the accounts.  Good luck to all of you who are trying to keep the faith.  I should have learned my lesson with SWG.  I am DONE with Sony Online Nerftainment.  The logical name for Troubadors should be Wildcards.  The class description should read "If you enjoy the uncertainty of what your role and what you will do in this game, than the Wildcard is for you!  One month you will be buffing tanks, another month you will be buffing casters, another month you will be crowd control, another month we will take away your crowd control.  If you enjoy the frustration that comes from the total lack of plannnig of a class, than the Troubador is for you!"</P> <P>Thanks for helping me spend my money SoE.  And thank you for helping me realize how silly it is for me to spend anymore on your product.  </P> <P> </P> <P>Over and OUT.</P><p>Message Edited by Khadi on <span class=date_text>05-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:56 AM</span>

[Cabose]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Khadi wrote:<BR> <P>Hello all !  </P> <P>I was convinced that this game would be as good as Everquest 1.  I had full faith that SoE would make a great game like the original Everquest.  I convinced all of my real life friends that play MMO's to start toons in EQ2.  Six of us started.  I am the last one left, and was defending the game once again in this recent expansion.  I have two accounts.  I read the update #24 a few nights ago.  </P> <P>Unfortunately, my main is a Troubador.  Life as a Troubador since day one has taken many different turns.  This class has totally changed three times already, now, the class takes on another path in this latest update.</P> <P>I have finally had it with this game.  I have no idea what a Troubador class will be like in a few months, but I am convinced it will take on many other faces before they figure out what they are after...  I had fun with this game for a year, so it wasn't wasted, just a big disappointment.  I spent a lot of time on my character getting him to 70, getting my jeweler to 70...   I was hoping there was a reward at the end of the rainbow for working hard on my character, instead, I am rewarded with persistent changes that dramatically change my class each time...  Yes, I want to cuss... I really wanted this game to be better...</P> <P>SoE nerfed my account with this latest update #24.  Actually, they save me $30 plus each month for both the accounts.  Good luck to all of you who are trying to keep the faith.  I should have learned my lesson with SWG.  I am DONE with Sony Online Nerftainment.  The logical name for Troubadors should be Wildcards.  The class description should read "If you enjoy the uncertainty of what your role and what you will do in this game, than the Wildcard is for you!  One month you will be buffing tanks, another month you will be buffing casters, another month you will be crowd control, another month we will take away your crowd control.  If you enjoy the frustration that comes from the total lack of plannnig of a class, than the Troubador is for you!"</P> <P>Thanks for helping me spend my money SoE.  And thank you for helping me realize how silly it is for me to spend anymore on your product.  </P> <P> </P> <P>Over and OUT.</P> <P>Message Edited by Khadi on <SPAN class=date_text>05-20-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:56 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Heh, we hear you. Im on my way out too. Figure I have bigger things to worry about than how much I hate these LUs. Its too bad that with such an unpopular LU they arent scrambling to undo the damage because afterall, its only their jobs. I always thought if I HAD a job like the devs, I would fight tooth-n-nail to keep it. I guess SOE doesnt pay very well <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[markdevox]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vazick wrote:<BR> I often thought that the company I worked for was staffed with morons.  Apparently its spreading.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>LOL</P>

[Mishkel]

<DIV>"I think he was refering to your use of the phrase "mass exodus". There just isnt enough people playing this game to create that, even from a business point of view for the simple fact, you have to remember the game is attached to what is it now? 7 other games in Station Access? So even if the game did bum out and have a very small population, the other games that are going ok from a business stand point, which means making money, will support this game, it just means they would lay off on the support and quaility control of this game, thats all."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess that's the point I don't see the problem with the "phrase".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is there a dictionary definition that ties a number to "mass exodus".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a company has 300,000 customers (example) and losses 200,000 then in their eyes that's pretty much a mass exodus.  Not everything in the world is defined by 6 million subscribers (or whatever the current number is).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This game at one time had a lot more people playing.  I just find it odd that most people agree on that, but a few want to pick apart a phrase that isn't defined by any number in any definition you are going to find for it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not really sure about the rest of your post mostly because I don't want to try and debate whether the sky is actually going to fall or not.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason I posted in the first place is.. I am sick and tired of having games I enjoy nerfed/balanced to the point I don't enjoy them.  Obviously "fun" is a subjective experience.  Which means there is no clear way to make a game fun for everyone.  What irritates me is that when I no longer find a game fun.   A developer for that game will tell me its ok they know more about making games than I do.  My response is ok but this isn't fun /cancel.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This doesn't just happen with SOE but all of their games have been this way for me.  The two MMO's I played for the longest with no breaks were Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies.  In fact I would still be happily plaing SWG and not even posting on this forum except for..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>CU -> NGE</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Which relates in some relative way to LU24 and the proposed changes so far.  Toss in the fact that I have developed a terminal allergy to "nerfs" and you pretty much have a whiney post incoming.  However, I personally don't really have a problem with cancelling my account if find this game less fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want a reply to the rest of what you wrote I'll try to consolidate:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The lay offs already started that you mention in the end of your post.  Why do you think the chat channels no longer have those funny people that used to talk to us?  You could also look at how many of the Devs you "knew" are now with other companies..  or taking a break.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yep you get to currently play:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQ1, SWG, MxO, Planetside and EQ Online adventures.  Well if you have Station Access I didn't mention EQ2 because we are already there.  Most station access members most likely are EQ2 players with extra character slots.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is a pretty good deal for the price and the games are cheap enough in the store.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have all of those except EQOA and Planetside... Never have or will own a play station so EQoA just won't happen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I quit SWG when the CU came out then went back.  The NGE completed killing the game but I still log in now and then to see if anyone I knew is crazy enough to come back.  Haven't seen any of them yet...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I haven't logged into EQ1 since the EQ2 beta and I logged into MxO once and that was enough.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So truthfully I pay station access for one game at this time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Toss in Vanguard.  We don't know at this time how the game will do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There was quite an uproar in the fanbase with SOE having anything at all to do with the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some of that will depend on how many people that play vanguard will go with station access.  I think overall yes it will be very good for SOE depending on how many go with station access.  They are going to get a cut regardless for their role in it.  However, I think they will most likely get more for station access.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course there is most likely going to be a non station access price.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And... how much you get for the price of station access depends relatively on what value you place on the games it contains.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>WoW sounds like a whole lot less for the money in your example but ... I think SOE would like to swap subscriber bases.  I personally don't play WoW but obviously a lot of people find it 'fun' regardless of my feeling.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>None of that had anything to do with the impact LU24 may or may not have.  Which really is just the trickle down effect of every Live Update nerf.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[AChampi]

<DIV>I think I may have a slightly different viewpoint to most.</DIV> <DIV>I don't really mind mechanics changes, this looks like it is going to make the game harder for most but doesn't look like it is going to unbalance any of the classes (we shall have to wait to see if they achieve this). In fact, to the contrary, it looks like an effort to balance some of the classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok we have to learn how to play our chars slightly differently, this has been true of most classes, especially after LU13 and LU20.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For me the relative balance between classes is important, each class being able to do its job in slightly unique ways but reasonably balanced against other classes across the content of the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The game getting harder across the board, so what - I will enjoy the challenge that this creates. I am a casual/skilled player and welcome more challenge.</DIV> <DIV>Time sinks - bad.</DIV> <DIV>Unbalanced classes - bad.</DIV> <DIV>Challenging encounters that require coordination either solo or within a group/raid - good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>JMHO.</DIV> <DIV>  -Slic.</DIV><p>Message Edited by AChampion on <span class=date_text>05-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:01 AM</span>

[Suraklin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mishkel wrote:<BR> <DIV>"I think he was refering to your use of the phrase "mass exodus". There just isnt enough people playing this game to create that, even from a business point of view for the simple fact, you have to remember the game is attached to what is it now? 7 other games in Station Access? So even if the game did bum out and have a very small population, the other games that are going ok from a business stand point, which means making money, will support this game, it just means they would lay off on the support and quaility control of this game, thats all."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess that's the point I don't see the problem with the "phrase".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is there a dictionary definition that ties a number to "mass exodus".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a company has 300,000 customers (example) and losses 200,000 then in their eyes that's pretty much a mass exodus.  Not everything in the world is defined by 6 million subscribers (or whatever the current number is).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This game at one time had a lot more people playing.  I just find it odd that most people agree on that, but a few want to pick apart a phrase that isn't defined by any number in any definition you are going to find for it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not really sure about the rest of your post mostly because I don't want to try and debate whether the sky is actually going to fall or not.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason I posted in the first place is.. I am sick and tired of having games I enjoy nerfed/balanced to the point I don't enjoy them.  Obviously "fun" is a subjective experience.  Which means there is no clear way to make a game fun for everyone.  What irritates me is that when I no longer find a game fun.   A developer for that game will tell me its ok they know more about making games than I do.  My response is ok but this isn't fun /cancel.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This doesn't just happen with SOE but all of their games have been this way for me.  The two MMO's I played for the longest with no breaks were Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies.  In fact I would still be happily plaing SWG and not even posting on this forum except for..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>CU -> NGE</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Which relates in some relative way to LU24 and the proposed changes so far.  Toss in the fact that I have developed a terminal allergy to "nerfs" and you pretty much have a whiney post incoming.  However, I personally don't really have a problem with cancelling my account if find this game less fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want a reply to the rest of what you wrote I'll try to consolidate:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The lay offs already started that you mention in the end of your post.  Why do you think the chat channels no longer have those funny people that used to talk to us?  You could also look at how many of the Devs you "knew" are now with other companies..  or taking a break.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yep you get to currently play:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQ1, SWG, MxO, Planetside and EQ Online adventures.  Well if you have Station Access I didn't mention EQ2 because we are already there.  Most station access members most likely are EQ2 players with extra character slots.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is a pretty good deal for the price and the games are cheap enough in the store.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3333>I have all of those except EQOA and Planetside... Never have or will own a play station so EQoA just won't happen.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I quit SWG when the CU came out then went back.  The NGE completed killing the game but I still log in now and then to see if anyone I knew is crazy enough to come back.  Haven't seen any of them yet...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I haven't logged into EQ1 since the EQ2 beta and I logged into MxO once and that was enough.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So truthfully I pay station access for one game at this time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Toss in Vanguard.  We don't know at this time how the game will do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There was quite an uproar in the fanbase with SOE having anything at all to do with the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some of that will depend on how many people that play vanguard will go with station access.  I think overall yes it will be very good for SOE depending on how many go with station access.  They are going to get a cut regardless for their role in it.  However, I think they will most likely get more for station access.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course there is most likely going to be a non station access price.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And... how much you get for the price of station access depends relatively on what value you place on the games it contains.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>WoW sounds like a whole lot less for the money in your example but ... I think SOE would like to swap subscriber bases.  I personally don't play WoW but obviously a lot of people find it 'fun' regardless of my feeling.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>None of that had anything to do with the impact LU24 may or may not have.  Which really is just the trickle down effect of every Live Update nerf.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Sadly EQOA is looking the best of the bunch even after all the nerfs they hit that game with lol. Was my first MMO ever but nothing like when I first played it.

[Blambil]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a summoner (conjurer) I can't see how a 20% reduction in my overall DPS (thx thx pet changes) is part of the vision. I can't see how it's beneficial to other classes. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Playing on both PVP and PVE servers, I can tell you, Summoners don't lead the PvP boards, they don't lead the "high hit" boards, they don't lead the "high DPS" parsing in groups. What criteria then, was used, to determine we needed whapped so hard?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We rely on our pets. Hell, without them, templars outdmg us (/duck). Why we needed a 17% - 33% reduction in overall dps, is FAR beyond me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's hoping THESE changes never go live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[VericSauvari]

<blockquote> <blockquote> <hr> Khadi wrote: <div></div> <div></div><p> The logical name for Troubadors should be Wildcards.  The class description should read "If you enjoy the uncertainty of what your role and what you will do in this game, than the Wildcard is for you!  One month you will be buffing tanks, another month you will be buffing casters, another month you will be crowd control, another month we will take away your crowd control.  If you enjoy the frustration that comes from the total lack of plannnig of a class, than the Troubador is for you!"</p></blockquote></blockquote> i actually LOL'ed irl and my co-workers looked at my funny<div></div>

[Arondur]

<DIV>The Beatings will continue until morale improves. :smileytongue:</DIV>

[StealthM0]

<DIV>Sig says it all. Looks like a mass exodus might be beginning.</DIV>

[thomasza]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> StealthM0de wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sig says it all. Looks like a mass exodus might be beginning.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What mass exodus? You have any proof of thousands of players leaving because of LU24? I thought this game was already considered death by many after LU13? Or is this just another thread of the thousands MMORPG forums has seen and will see in the future about players screaming loudly when changes happen and they dont like it? Not really a good way to convince the dev team they are wrong now isnt it?

[Inebriation]

<blockquote><hr>thomasza wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> StealthM0de wrote: <div>Sig says it all. Looks like a mass exodus might be beginning.</div> <hr> </blockquote>What mass exodus? You have any proof of thousands of players leaving because of LU24? I thought this game was already considered death by many after LU13? Or is this just another thread of the thousands MMORPG forums has seen and will see in the future about players screaming loudly when changes happen and they dont like it? Not really a good way to convince the dev team they are wrong now isnt it?<hr></blockquote>Nobody can prove what's going to happen in the future, but they can predict and make pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good ones. I already know of about 20 people who plan on leaving to Vanguard.<div></div>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Inebriation wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thomasza wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> StealthM0de wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sig says it all. Looks like a mass exodus might be beginning.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What mass exodus? You have any proof of thousands of players leaving because of LU24? I thought this game was already considered death by many after LU13? Or is this just another thread of the thousands MMORPG forums has seen and will see in the future about players screaming loudly when changes happen and they dont like it? Not really a good way to convince the dev team they are wrong now isnt it?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Nobody can prove what's going to happen in the future, but they can predict and make pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good ones. I already know of about 20 people who plan on leaving to Vanguard.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Me also, i know more then 20 from EF that will be going there, chances are that 75% will stay.</P> <P>Just read around the forums, 95% of the player base that acually comes here to post isnt happy. The poll they have says that 41% of the player base that comes here to the forums acually solo's, yet they nerf solo ability in this next patch.</P>

[Inebriation]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>I love to solo. But many players now play around on PvP for fun, this LU will kill many classes, especially scouts. A lot of assassins' abilities come from flanking, think of the huge decrease in dps as far as player vs. player. The time in which they have to use their flanking CAs will be reduced enough that it will show a dramatic drop. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Inebriation on <span class=date_text>05-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:25 PM</span>

[Monfar]

<blockquote><hr>thomasza wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>StealthM0de wrote:<div>Sig says it all. Looks like a mass exodus might be beginning.</div><hr></blockquote>What mass exodus? You have any proof of thousands of players leaving because of LU24? <font color="ff9933"><b><i>I thought this game was already considered death by many after LU13?</i></b></font> Or is this just another thread of the thousands MMORPG forums has seen and will see in the future about players screaming loudly when changes happen and they dont like it? Not really a good way to convince the dev team they are wrong now isnt it?<hr></blockquote>Why we needed to have the servers merge , maybe ??

[Malar]

<DIV>I must agree with the majority of people posting on this topic...I've stuck it out as long as I could...all my friends are all but gone now <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd like to think I've stuck through it thick and thin but I just can't take it anylonger,I've cancelled both my accounts today and was actually sadden by making the decision,I do like how most of the game plays...but with having to re-learn classes every other update is ridiculous <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This was the MAIN reason I left SWG,now it's EQ2...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Only thing I'd like to know is,how can a company take a game THEY made knowing how the GAME works and almost completly change how it is because they say things are broke and what not...doesn't make sense to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last thing....people WILL always find a way to play a game whether you like it or not,I've seen it too many times...one example AC2...well we know what happened there...EQ2 is following the same path...it was fun while it lasted...goodbye.</DIV>

[Atrix Wolfe]

Long term health through short term fads in rapid succession.. Brilliant!

[Astery]

well, i know at least 9 who cancelled recently from our guild/friends and already subscribed to other games. not a big number i know, but my friends list is around 25 ppl...soon its time for another server merge?btw LU24 was not the reason for most of them to leave, it is only the final straw i hear... it seems i'm not alone with the motivation issues.new players dont care and understand about this, so thinking that way the situation is really not that bad. in fact if SOE thinks their changes will really help for new next generation, they should go ahead with all the ideas they had, do it ASAP, before the silly xp weekends level up noobs too fast...<p>Message Edited by Astery on <span class=date_text>05-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:57 AM</span>

[-Aonein-]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Astery wrote:<BR>well, i know at least 9 who cancelled recently from our guild/friends and already subscribed to other games. not a big number i know, but my friends list is around 25 ppl...<BR> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yep 9 of my guildies just did the same.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P></P> <P>Astery wrote:</P> <P>soon its time for another server merge?<BR></P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>EF needs one now, and thats even after merging with Grobb.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Astery wrote:<BR>btw LU24 was not the reason for most of them to leave, it is only the final straw i hear... it seems i'm not alone with the motivation issues.<BR> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Exactally its the final straw which is the reason, not LU24.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Astery wrote:<BR>new players dont care and understand about this, so thinking that way the situation is really not that bad. in fact if SOE thinks their changes will really help for new next generation, they should go ahead with all the ideas they had, do it ASAP, before the silly xp weekends level up noobs too fast... <P>Message Edited by Astery on <SPAN class=date_text>05-22-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>11:57 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Again, agree 100%, casual players and new players dont understand what alot of long term loyal SoE subscribers are talking about because they simply ethier dont play enough OR havent been here long enough to experience what we have gone through already. Especially when these long term subscribers have been sticking it out in good faith only to see things getting worse and worse.</P> <P>I often wonder how many people are still playing and have been here the whole time since release, id be interested in seeing real numbers but we know what the chances of seeing those are.<BR></P></DIV>

[Unfeter]

<P>SOE should have learned through SWG, that people will NOT stick around after massive fundamental changes that nerfs the whole game.  The reasons for SWG's NGE was 'looking to the long term health of the game' which ultimatly and irriversably shortened the health and life span of the game.</P> <P> </P> <P>SOE, listen to your players, if they dont want a change like this implemented, you really must listen to them.  people will play the game as long as it is fun, changes like these are NOT fun.</P>

[Tro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Malar wrote:<BR> <DIV>I must agree with the majority of people posting on this topic...I've stuck it out as long as I could...all my friends are all but gone now <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd like to think I've stuck through it thick and thin but I just can't take it anylonger,I've cancelled both my accounts today and was actually sadden by making the decision,I do like how most of the game plays...but with having to re-learn classes every other update is ridiculous <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This was the MAIN reason I left SWG,now it's EQ2...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Only thing I'd like to know is,<FONT color=#ff0066>how can a company take a game THEY made knowing how the GAME works and almost completly change how it is because they say things are broke</FONT> and what not...doesn't make sense to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last thing....people WILL always find a way to play a game whether you like it or not,I've seen it too many times...one example AC2...well we know what happened there...EQ2 is following the same path...it was fun while it lasted...goodbye.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I will tell you: </P> <P>1) They rushed the game out the door in an attempt to scarf up any potential WoW customers and figured they would "Fix" it as they go and </P> <P>2) Absolutely no leadership/direction in the Dev department. </P> <P>For number 1.. We got "Fix" number one on Septmeber 13th 05 (LU 13)  They have accomplished part 1 and now the part 2 (Read LU 24) "Fix" is imminent.  </P> <P>For number 2.. This is evident when they change a class in one LU then change it back (Almost) in another LU. Does the Term "Make up your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] minds" mean anything??</P> <P> <BR></P>

[minh]

<DIV>SOE cant make up their mind because they havent got a BRAIN to do it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im so sick and tired of keeping tab on how to play my chara every frigging patch they release. Especially LU13 and now this 1. For crying out loud stop this BS nerf happing, enough is enough</DIV>

[Tro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> minh70 wrote:<BR> <DIV>SOE cant make up their mind because they havent got a BRAIN to do it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im so sick and tired of keeping tab on how to play my chara every frigging patch they release. Especially LU13 and now this 1. For crying out loud stop this BS nerf happing, enough is enough</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually it is every 6-7 months that you get a new character to learn. Next combat revamp after LU 24 (Or LU 13 part 2 what ever you prefer) will be when the next expansion is released and then a couple more will follow after that within the next year. </P> <P>This next LU now confirms my belief that this is the way SoE has chosen to evolve EQ2. They are just continuing on with "Fixing/cleaning up" their screwup from when EQ2 was rushed out the door in Nov 04. I can guarantee we WILL see more updates like this.. We all know it is gonna happen.. First LU 13 and now LU 24.. It is a fact. Thsi is now the norm for the SoE Opeartions team.  I read and read about SWG and it just didn't click in.. It is very clear to me now. <BR></P>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trook wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> minh70 wrote:<BR> <DIV>SOE cant make up their mind because they havent got a BRAIN to do it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im so sick and tired of keeping tab on how to play my chara every frigging patch they release. Especially LU13 and now this 1. For crying out loud stop this BS nerf happing, enough is enough</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually it is every 6-7 months that you get a new character to learn. Next combat revamp after LU 24 (Or LU 13 part 2 what ever you prefer) will be when the next expansion is released and then a couple more will follow after that within the next year. </P> <P>This next LU now confirms my belief that this is the way SoE has chosen to evolve EQ2. They are just continuing on with "Fixing/cleaning up" their screwup from when EQ2 was rushed out the door in Nov 04. I can guarantee we WILL see more updates like this.. We all know it is gonna happen.. First LU 13 and now LU 24.. It is a fact. Thsi is now the norm for the SoE Opeartions team.  I read and read about SWG and it just didn't click in.. It is very clear to me now. <BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That is the sad truth Trook. It took awhile for it to sink in for me too and i now see that this is the way this game will contuine to operate.</P> <P>Well good luck to it cause after June 11th, ill be gone for good.</P>

[Triona]

I started playing EQ2 when it first came out and stayed only 2 weeks because of the lack of solo play. I reopened my account in Nov '05 and started a Wizard and truely enjoyed the game this time around. Then they nerfed my Wizards ability to "mezz" a mob and it became very frustrating to solo her. It became a question of "can I nuke it to death before it beats me to death?" <EM>Every single fight</EM>. NOT FUN. So then I decided to switch to a Conjuror and started to enjoy the game again and now they are going to nerf the heck out of that class. I don't know maybe in the upper levels (my Wizzy is only 39 and Conjuror 40) these classes were overpowered but quite frankly not in the lower levels imo. The whole idea of "balancing" the classes is ridiculous imo... the classes are different and have different abilities (as it should be) and if one class has better DPS (or mezz or tankage or healage) than the class you are playing and you are jealous then go play that other class. Please don't scream for the nerf bat. That said, I really feel for many of the long term players who have stuck it out all this time... I can literally feel your frustration from reading these boards. Too bad SOE seems to have no empathy :smileysad:. My theory why SOE is doing this is not to increase the ability of the Illusionist class but to increase the need for grouping again. I hear people complaining that they cannot find groups all the time. And though, I agree something needs to be done about this (perhaps make raiding actually give some XP and grouping give better XP than soloing), totally nerfing the ability to solo without a lot of frustration is NOT the answer. And ,sadly, regardless of what I feel and what you feel, I am sure Sony will go through with these changes if history is used as an indicator. No class should ever be nerfed to the point where it changes the way that class is played or worse yet, makes that class useless. Someone mentioned increasing the difficulty and fun factor of group encounters instead of bringing the players ability down... this, I whole heartedly agree with. I hope SOE changes their minds about this LU or in the very least will tell us all their "big picture" long term plans for this game. Because it is obvious they are changing the basic fundamentals of it (again). 

[quetzaqotl]

<P>Tbh I havent seen a big move of playerbase to other games b/c of this change, noone I know has quit over this change.</P> <P>Also leaving over a change thats still on test and will be on test for a couple of weeks as lockeye said is a bit hasty imo.</P> <P>Also what good mmorpgs are there around at this time anyways?</P> <P>So yeah as it is now a lot of these changes mean nerfs for some classes and thats bad but I dont see a mass /cancel subscription.</P> <P>But i suppose all this "Il cancel my sub." (again) is just to show the devs that you dont agree/like the change, and it doesnt mean youll really quit.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by quetzaqotl on <span class=date_text>05-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:46 AM</span>

[Pitcrewone]

<P>Well, I have lost a bunch of guild members to WOW and with this update i am sure to lose some more.  Sony why do you seem to find a need to change the characters constantly, stick with what you have and change the game around the characters.  No one likes to spend hours and months/years building a character to where they want it just to have it changed on them.  You are better off changing the MOBS and enviornment around the characters.</P> <P> </P> <P>This is exactly why people leave games and start playing new ones like World of WarCraft and others.  Please work harder to change the enviornment and not the characters people have spent all there time to create.</P> <P> </P> <P>Elfster - level 62 Wizard </P> <P>Message Edited by Pitcrewone on <SPAN class=date_text>05-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:53 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Pitcrewone on <span class=date_text>05-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:54 AM</span>

[Mulilla]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> quetzaqotl wrote:<BR> <P>Also leaving over a change thats still on test and will be on test for a couple of weeks as lockeye said is a bit hasty imo.</P> <P>Also what good mmorpgs are there around at this time anyways?</P> <P>  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I agree with you about these statements, i won't quit until the LU go live, because i know the devs are human and can understand people concerns.  That is what test server is for, and that is what this forum is about.</P> <P>About the other MMORPGs... who cares? there is life outside the MMORPGs... I quit EQ1 for 3 years before EQ2 went live and there are tons of games wich aren't online games but rock.  Even the classics... currently im playing Sid Meier's Colonization when we have a break while raiding.  Who knows, maybe i could give Monkey Island another try <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[-Aonein-]

<P></P> <HR> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=40346" target=_blank><SPAN>quetzaqotl</SPAN></A> wrote:</P> <P>Tbh I havent seen a big move of playerbase to other games b/c of this change, noone I know has quit over this change.</P> <P>Also leaving over a change thats still on test and will be on test for a couple of weeks as lockeye said is a bit hasty imo.</P> <P>Also what good mmorpgs are there around at this time anyways?</P> <P>So yeah as it is now a lot of these changes mean nerfs for some classes and thats bad but I dont see a mass /cancel subscription.</P> <P>But i suppose all this "Il cancel my sub." (again) is just to show the devs that you dont agree/like the change, and it doesnt mean youll really quit.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by quetzaqotl on <SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>05-22-2006</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>08:46 AM</SPAN></P> <P></P> <DIV>Athinu Stormcaller Furygod of Everfrost<BR>=Heroes Fate= Hug a tree or die<BR>&<BR>Kzeki Mbeki Slackconjuror/Donkeygod of Everfrost</DIV> <P></P> <HR> <P>You obviously havent read much of this thread have you and just jumped to the last page of it, but then again, that makes no sense ethier, cause even the last page here tells of why people are quitting which has nothing to do with this LU, its because people are sick and tired of constant changing, not bug fixing, constant changing that never seems to balance anything.</P> <P>Here let me be more precise here with my words, <STRONG><U>im</U></STRONG> sick to death of paying to beta test a live product, thats as blunt as i can be while remaining civial.</P> <P>If you think im bluffing about canceling my 3 accounts, ask SoE to look into how many people have acually gone and canceled their accounts in the last few weeks, but they cant or wont show that data will they? The point that people are making to SoE is enough is enough with the attempt at making it a healthy game for the long term because it isnt working. We dont have to prove nothing to you.</P> <P>You might think that people are bluffing, take a look at the population on your server, EF and Grobb merged, and its a lonely server yet again. You being on EF and in Hereos Fate should know this, but then again, your one of the top raiding guilds on the server, so no problem for you guys to get people huh?</P><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>05-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:26 AM</span>

[Sulas]

I drew a friend of mine away from WoW to come play with me, but he's spending less and less time in game now.  It has now been about a month since he's logged in.  The last time I talked to him about it, he commented that he's been playing EQ2 for less than 6 months and has had to relearn how to play his character twice.I really doubt he'll come back and that knowledge just puts that much more pressure on me to go to the game he's playing next.Devs, you really gotta get your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] together and design a game that can scale.<div></div>

[Amocus]

<div><blockquote><hr>-<div><p>I often wonder how many people are still playing and have been here the whole time since release, id be interested in seeing real numbers but we know what the chances of seeing those are.</p></div><hr></blockquote> If they actually gave us that; I would bet, that you wouldn't believe them. For you see, for many board poster's, if the reality turned out to be  good subscriber base and retention, perhaps even adding new players, that would totally screw with your world view. You couldn't take it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>I have read quite a bit of this topic and the trend to say "Im quitting, this is the last drop" has been around on this forum (and others of course) on multiple threads after each big (proposed) change.</P> <P>People posting on these boards (and with post counts in the 100's) who say theyll quit seldom do, a lot of people who are 70 get bored  and try other things out, pvp for instance Ive seen that happen way more, whats there to do except for raiding at 70, I know during times when there were quite a lot of guildies were online there are less b/c they re pvping before raids.</P> <P>And yes you should let yourself be heard, your concerns etc. but dragging in the "Im gonna quit, this is the last drop" cliché into a discussion is a bit old, thats all.</P><p>Message Edited by quetzaqotl on <span class=date_text>05-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:28 AM</span>

[Zypho]

  Well here is the big issue alot of people are having right now, at least in the higher end raiding aspects of the game. Both of the summoner classes pets are slightly overpowered atm. Im not entirely sure why they did not just nerf the pets dps a bit and make it so that pets wont be outparsing most of the raid alone.... I do however like the changes too enchanters/coercers I feel that there are going too be many situations in which those epic mez/daze effects will become necassary in defeating said raid encounter. I feel for the troubs getting some nerfs but troubs are always going too be a mainstay in any intelligent raid force simply for there ability too enhance other players. Soloing seems too be the biggest issue that people have too complain about lately and I really must remind folks that even though they have came out with solo mobs in this game (huge mistake in my opinion) the entire point of an mmorpg is not to go out and solo your char too max level ... It is to group with other players and meet new people ,  make friends and alliances and the like. Allowing for people too solo there class too max level is a good way too end up having people that really know next to nothing about how too play there chars in grp or raiding situations and still be at max level. I have too believe that soe is working towards an end picture where classes are balanced. They are working harder and faster to do this in this mmorpg than many predecessors did to balance classes. With a 24 person raid limit on things its much more important too have balanced classes simply because there isnt alot of room for dead weight. Right now a raid who uses only summoners as dps can be more effective then a raid using a balanced array of dps classes in many situations. That needs too be changed a bit imhop. Also I think it might be wise too add some type of necassary function for necromancer class if they are not too be much higher in dps then conj class. Conj get coth which is a VERY usefull tool in numerous raid situations both classes get a summoned mana item of some kind. Maybe they can come back with some of the very great ideas they had for the classes in eq 1 such as summon corpse for necro ( obviously impossible sense there are no corpses in this game) but there were also some cool things that conj got like summoning items that certain classes in the raid/grp situation could use too enhance there dps. Perhaps give necros some kind of a proc buff too put on other players for hostile spells as well as melee giving them another niche in a raid situation. I really feel the focus here has too be on raiding content rather then soloing or grping. I mean lets face it any grp of 6 players as long as they got a healer and a tank can go out and grp effectively in almost any area of eq 2 atm. All classes dont have too be perfectly balanced but in a raid situations all classes do need too have a roll to fill or they are simply not going too be included in raids which is a very bad thing for the game. Right now the class hurting the most are warlocks really, and Im not sure how that is going too be fixed, perhaps they can make ae fighting a bit more viable by increasing certain tanks abilities to ae taunt mobs allowing warlocks too open up there ae dps a bit which will throw them more in line with the t1 dps they are supposed to have. Right now if you combine the dps between either summoner class pets and the summoner of said pet they will beat every class in the raid in dps in "most" raid situations obviously when an ae fight is involved and the summoner isnt aeing (which they can do quite well) then they will get beaten, other then that aside from a few particular area of effect mobs that kill there pets they win every situation for dps hands down. I honestly dont feel nerfing the summoner itself was the way too go here though , I think they should of just focused more on the pets dps and less on the summoner themselves. Again I play a wizard in eq2 but I raid quite frequently (every single day) and have experienced most of the high end raid content in the game first hand I dont feel this change was simply implemented to stop other classes from whining about overpowered summoners rather to balance raiding a bit more allowing for a wider array of classes to be viable decisions to go with during a raid. Thanks for listening and I will look for any comments, statements, questions or even snide remarks that I might be able too awnser as to responses to this post... Zyphon Level 70 Wizard - Befallen

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> quetzaqotl wrote:<BR> <P>And yes you should let yourself be heard, your concerns etc. but dragging in the "Im gonna quit, this is the last drop" cliché into a discussion is a bit old, thats all.</P> <P>Message Edited by quetzaqotl on <SPAN class=date_text>05-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:28 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I've gone one better and canceled, me personally has dragged no one into this and i seriously doubt that people who <STRONG><U>have</U></STRONG> quit has intentionally done that ethier, its been canceled for almost 2 weeks and i wont be reinstating my account unless i have too for Vangaurd, depending on how it works, but thats a totally seperate issue which wont envolve me paying station access for EQ2 access thats for sure, it will be just standard accounts at the minimum price to get access to the game, i refuse to pay SoE anything on top for *broken* services.</P> <P>Of course its old, its old because this shiat keeps happening and people are getting to the point where they have no other option but to say it, if it didnt happen so often, we wouldnt hear it as often.</P><p>Message Edited by -Aonein- on <span class=date_text>05-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:27 AM</span>

[350]

<P>I'm not at a "I quit" stage yet (again), but I certainly understand why someone would be.  </P> <P>Maybe I'm just not smart enough, but I certainly cannot see why SOE would put this many nerfs out at once.   Solo play is going to take a HUGE hit.  The ability to solo is why I came back to EQ2.  It's why I play a summoner.  My personal life does not allow for the time restraints/requirements of group play, most of the time.  I do enjoy the social aspects of a MMORPG, and truely enjoy interacting with my guild.</P> <P>If removing the ability to solo is the goal, I wish they would anounce it....I could then move on to another game.</P>

[Jooneau]

I signed up when the game was released, realized how stupidly broken it was -- my Fury's heals literally got worse as he leveled, not better -- because they rushed it out to beat WoW release, and quit.I came back after a year, enjoyed playing the game but was disturbed by how much they were changing the game from Live Update to Live Update, got bored with the lack of things to do in the 60+ game, and finally quit again because of the massive nerf to the core abilities of my character's class (Troubador).I have no faith in SOE. The only reason I tried EQ2 to begin with instead of WoW was because most of my friends wanted to try EQ2 instead of WoW when both were released. Nearly all of them have quit EQ2 after SOE destroyed their class or the game with one Live Update or another.Preserving the long term health of the game. That's baloney.When has SOE ever retracted changes made on the Test Server before they went Live? And how often do they do this compared to just pushing it Live anyways despite /feedback and forum criticism to the contrary? They don't listen to their players; they ignore them, because "we're in their world now."Anyways, now that I've quit EQ2, I've been enjoying WoW. It isn't perfect; I have connectivity issues with Blizzard servers, there are broken quests and game balance issues, and PvP on WoW is a stupid gankfest where level 60s camp newbies out of sheer boredom. I keep checking these forums hoping that SOE will change their mind about the stupid "control changes" they have introduced in LU#24, but honestly, even without these changes, I was getting bored with the 60+ game... nothing to do but grind boring writs again and again.<p>Message Edited by Jooneau on <span class=date_text>05-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:17 PM</span>

[tequiero]

<P>Hmm in what past  updates that has been in test and posted , has it not gone live???  i hear people well its in test  , this is what test is for, they are humman, ect, ecxt, ect. </P> <P> </P> <P>   What is the point of having a test server if you guys gonna do what ever you want anyways even if  people post there conserns and view the  possible problems you guys maybe didnt see, have you guys actually play some of these classes , Like the troubadour??? For the class that is pretty muchthe least play they got the cutting board.  Necro/conjers  same.??</P> <P> </P> <P>   most of the stun charm, knowdown got nerf so you guys can make  illusion and corcers more  " playble/wanted"  That bull Not all people  go Epic hunting  i am sorry ( ido ) but not everyoen does so WOW we get to  mezz/stun a epic mob awesome "yeah rigth" how about the small groups the soloers?? in which way this will help them?? </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> Honestly  get your head toghter and look at our concerns, i have been playing eq1 since 2001, and still play it, and i been playing eq2  since the firstday it came out, and 4 Special edition collectors box later i am still here.  i gave you guys the benifit of dout when you guys  wack a nerf,  most of them werent that bad. when the game first came out God's knows  you guys neede the changes and you guys came thru but this coming up update is 5 step back from the 3 step foward you took when it first came out.</P> <P>i wont cancell my account or say " OMG is the end of the world the sky is fallign most cancell" , but i will say this i really dont want to see a game i love to play go down the gutter,  </P>

[Guard_Ra]

<P>I don't have a problem with SOE making changes like these for the longevity of the game. However, I do have a problem with WHEN this type of crap happens. These changes should have been put it in at LU 13. Heck they all should've been apart of the first LU if not Beta. Making people relearn their class 18 months in is just insane.  </P> <P> </P>

[Inebriation]

<blockquote><hr>Cowdenicus wrote:<div>Uhm As I recall and I will check when I get home, But I think warlock AE Roots were only 8% chance to break on damage. So actually that would be a double nerf.</div> <div> </div> <div>One for the duration, and one for the % to break.</div> <div> </div> <div>Is agro going to be fixed for warlocks now with removing and shortening stun duration.</div> <div> </div> <div>Has anybody considered the effect of the shortened root durations will have on soloing effectively for Sorcerers?</div> <div> </div> <div>Are there going to be Effective de agro tools in the near future for Sorcerers? </div> <div> </div> <div>Is there any word yet when Warlocks in general are going to be fixed?</div> <div> </div> <div>Respectfuly,</div> <div>X</div><p>Message Edited by Cowdenicus on <span class="date_text">05-17-2006</span> <span class="time_text">05:28 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I also think that warlocks need a possible way to keep their aggro on the down without slowing down on dps. The key there is MORE hate debuffs for warlocks. The only thing we have as of now is Concussive, which helps of occasion but it's still not enough. In a raid, I want to be pressing hotkeys every second. So since you're going to completely get rid of the stun proc on Devastation/Apocalypse, why not put in something we can use for the raiding-type warlock? Such as a hate debuff? I don't want replies telling me stuff like "Oh, why didn't you pick the INT line of your AA so you get more hate debuffs"... because I should NOT have to choose an AA just to keep myself from dieing in a raid doing what I'm supposed to do... dps. None of us should have to choose an AA line just for that. Even just ONE more hate debuff following with concussive would help extremely, or if you can't do that, at least do something like decrease the reuse timer on concussive. That's my 2cc.<div></div>

[frapus]

idk maybe im just playing the devils advocate but, i think the problem here is that soe has listened to whiners and complainers too much already.  tradeskills were revamped cause people complained they had to rely on alchies too much, the way mobs were grouped was revamped cause people complained they couldnt solo...many many changes have happened..... and now for a long time people have been complaining that summoners are to much dps.why dont people just stop crying? every lu that comes out someone is complaining.  learn to adapt or dont play the game.9 pages of crying..../sigh  its just a gameFrap70 Conjuror<div></div>

[Fortai]

<div></div><div></div>I have a high level conjurer and I am worried about the changes also.  But instead of saying "this IS going to ruin my ability to solo," without even TRYING the changes, I'm going to go to the test server, try it out, then complain.  Seriously, are the Devs going to listen to "I quit, this ruins everyone's ability to solo," or do you think they are going to listen to actual gameplay experiences on the test server, and WHY it is hard to solo?  I am talking mainly about Conjurers, and not only the ability to solo, but the huge reduction in DPS.  What does it do in groups?  Raids?  We need the numbers and experiences to prove it, or the devs will probably not listen to us.  I mean LU24 looks frightening, overkill, and knee-jerk, but they are not going to listen to knee-jerk reactions either.<font color="#ffff00"></font><font color="#ffff00">EDIT to respond to below post:  Yes I do play on test.  I think they sometimes listen, although I think they need to be more gradual with the changes, and you are right, relearning your class every few months is something to be POed about.</font><div></div><p>Message Edited by liquidsol on <span class=date_text>05-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:45 AM</span>

[xephadoo]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>lol and i thought Gravity Corp suckedAny company that nerfs soo many classes for the negative and even make some of them completely useless just really does not need to put out a mmo...account cancelled, and my wife just cancelled hers<div></div><p>Message Edited by xephadoo on <span class=date_text>05-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:10 PM</span>

[Aienaa]

<P><FONT color=#ffff00>or do you think they are going to listen to actual gameplay experiences on the test server</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>You obviously have never done testing for SoE....   I was in SWG Beta, the SWG Jedi change Beta...  PoF Beta (which included LU13), KoS Beta...   The problem is that they DO NOT listen to anyone, not even thier testers....  It's exactly as everyone has been saying....  They put something on test, and reguardless of the feedback they get, they push it to live....   Thier philosophy is that they will push it live and if it doesn't work, they will just change it later....  Hence the reason everyone is getting POd about having to relearn thier classes every few months....</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 70 Assassin</P>

[Tro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aienaa wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>or do you think they are going to listen to actual gameplay experiences on the test server</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>You obviously have never done testing for SoE....   I was in SWG Beta, the SWG Jedi change Beta...  PoF Beta (which included LU13), KoS Beta...   The problem is that they DO NOT listen to anyone, not even thier testers....  It's exactly as everyone has been saying....  They put something on test, and reguardless of the feedback they get, they push it to live....   Thier philosophy is that they will push it live and if it doesn't work, they will just change it later....  Hence the reason everyone is getting POd about having to relearn thier classes every few months....</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 70 Assassin</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You see this Blackgard/Moorgard/Lockeye ?? Prove to us this is not true.. We are waiting.. </P> <P>I do of course realize I am being completely dumb thinking either of them will actually reply..  I know this because when ever you hold them to something, they ignore you... especially if you are right. I sent MG a PM a while ago on a cretain issue (He lied to us) and asked him to please explain himself. Well he promptly put me on /ignore.</P> <P>That appears to be their way of thinking when it comes to owning up to something and admittin they were wrong.. just ignore it. it will go away.. I see this way too much and am sure it will continue. </P>

[Edri]

<P>Could this be SOE's 'cunning plan'?</P> <P>1. Problem = Experienced high level players will continue to leave EQ2 due to lack of content/boredom  etc. - Solution: publish Vanguard on Station Access in November and 'encourage' the mass migration of said high level players from EQ2 to Vanguard by continual nerfing and effectively ending development of EQ2 high level content. (See point 2 below)</P> <P>2. Problem =  EQ2 is past its sell-by date and will not be able to sustain a viable subscription base going forward - Solution: release 'Echoes of Faywow' (EQ3) in november:</P> <P><EM><STRONG>EverQuest II Echoes of Faydwer </STRONG></EM><STRONG>Features</STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>New playable race – The Fae <LI>New starting location – Kelethin <LI>Over 350 all-new quests <LI>Content and zones available for players of all levels (1 – 70) <LI>Cloaks that can be worn by your player character <LI>All-new Profession Hats and Armor <LI>Over 20 new adventure zones <LI>Over 40 new types of creatures <LI>New rewards for PvP (Player vs. Player) combat <LI>New player housing, items, equipment, spells and tradeskill recipes <LI>Levels for Guilds raised from 50 to 60 </LI></UL> <P>Contrary to what many on these boards think, EQ2 <EM>is</EM> evolving to a corporate plan - it's called Vanguard/Echoes of Faydwer. </P> <P>I suggest we all remember the good times we have had in EQ2 and get ready to move on to pastures new in the fall.</P> <P> </P> <P>Edriel - 70 Wizard - Splitpaw Freeport</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[surf]

<P>Are you guys seriously insane? I left Star Wars Galaxies for stuff like this after the last major combat upgrade was a disaster. I just recently canceled my Station Access pass, but right before I did I logged in one more time to Galaxies and the place was a ghost town. EQ2 is fine now as far the classes go! How about fixing the code now so certain zones run more smooth and doesn't bring everyones system to their knees when running through cities and having more than one mob on the screen.  I can see adding more content, new zones even the new expansions, and adventure packs , fixing minor class bugs or something else, but I am telling you SOE this is a big mistake if you let this go live, and I am gonna say the same thing I said over in Galaxies forums STOP BEFORE IT GOES LIVE AND LISTEN TO YOUR COMMUNITY! </P> <P>The funny thing is we just started a new Guild things were going good and some of my friends left other MMO games to join us because I told them how fun the game had become which it is now, and I was seeing a new trend of people coming into this game and people are really enjoy EQ2 now and you pull something like this. </P> <P>Guys don't get your hopes up this thing we go live no matter what we say, and it may break the game depending on how the community responds, which isn't positive right atm (understated) It will be intersting to see how our Guild responds! </P> <P>This is a one time last ditch plea to the developers of this game please LISTEN TO THE PLAYER COMMUNITY!</P><p>Message Edited by surfs2 on <span class=date_text>05-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:36 AM</span>

[Screamin' 1]

<div>Edriel, who can say for sure if you are correct, but your post might be the most insightful first post ever in these forums. Very interesting.  <blockquote><hr>Edriel wrote:<div></div> <p>Could this be SOE's 'cunning plan'?</p> <p>1. Problem = Experienced high level players will continue to leave EQ2 due to lack of content/boredom  etc. - Solution: publish Vanguard on Station Access in November and 'encourage' the mass migration of said high level players from EQ2 to Vanguard by continual nerfing and effectively ending development of EQ2 high level content. (See point 2 below)</p> <p>2. Problem =  EQ2 is past its sell-by date and will not be able to sustain a viable subscription base going forward - Solution: release 'Echoes of Faywow' (EQ3) in november:</p> <p><em><strong>EverQuest II Echoes of Faydwer </strong></em><strong>Features</strong></p> <ul> <li>New playable race – The Fae </li><li>New starting location – Kelethin </li><li>Over 350 all-new quests </li><li>Content and zones available for players of all levels (1 – 70) </li><li>Cloaks that can be worn by your player character </li><li>All-new Profession Hats and Armor </li><li>Over 20 new adventure zones </li><li>Over 40 new types of creatures </li><li>New rewards for PvP (Player vs. Player) combat </li><li>New player housing, items, equipment, spells and tradeskill recipes </li><li>Levels for Guilds raised from 50 to 60 </li></ul> <p>Contrary to what many on these boards think, EQ2 <em>is</em> evolving to a corporate plan - it's called Vanguard/Echoes of Faydwer. </p> <p>I suggest we all remember the good times we have had in EQ2 and get ready to move on to pastures new in the fall.</p> <p>Edriel - 70 Wizard - Splitpaw Freeport</p> <hr></blockquote></div>

[Suraklin]

<DIV>Kinda weird SOE is showing people their stupid decisions before an Adventure Pack and New Expansion come out. They were smarter with the NGE of SWG. They didn't [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] over the players until the Expansion was bought. Good luck selling those add ons guys lol :smileyvery-happy:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Suraklin on <span class=date_text>05-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:14 AM</span>

[Aienaa]

<P><FONT color=#ffff00>Kinda weird SOE is showing people their stupid decisions before an Adventure Pack and New Expansion come out. They were smarter with the NGE of SWG. They didn't [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] over the players until the Expansion was bought. Good luck selling those add ons guys lol</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>On the contrary....  The Adventure Packs release date is the same date as the LU release date....  Also, if you remember back to LU#13, it was released on the same day as DoF....  They are using the same strat as before....  Release a crappy LU at the same time as an expansion... People will buy the expansion to check it out and at the same time determine if the LU is as bad as they though and maybe retain some people due to the Adv Pack...</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 70 Assassin</P>

[-Aonein-]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aienaa wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Kinda weird SOE is showing people their stupid decisions before an Adventure Pack and New Expansion come out. They were smarter with the NGE of SWG. They didn't [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] over the players until the Expansion was bought. Good luck selling those add ons guys lol</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>On the contrary....  The Adventure Packs release date is the same date as the LU release date....  Also, if you remember back to LU#13, it was released on the same day as DoF....  They are using the same strat as before....  Release a crappy LU at the same time as an expansion... People will buy the expansion to check it out and at the same time determine if the LU is as bad as they though and maybe retain some people due to the Adv Pack...</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 70 Assassin</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I wont be buying a thing to check anything out, cause im just tired of thier attempts at percieving us, just time to wipe the hands clean of SoE.

[blutste]

wow, 10 pages and not one single positive comment. Its a shame seeing a good game destroyed by the devs. good job SOE.my comment: account cancelled<div></div>

[thomasza]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aienaa wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>or do you think they are going to listen to actual gameplay experiences on the test server</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>You obviously have never done testing for SoE....   I was in SWG Beta, the SWG Jedi change Beta...  PoF Beta (which included LU13), KoS Beta...   The problem is that they DO NOT listen to anyone, not even thier testers....  It's exactly as everyone has been saying....  They put something on test, and reguardless of the feedback they get, they push it to live....   Thier philosophy is that they will push it live and if it doesn't work, they will just change it later....  Hence the reason everyone is getting POd about having to relearn thier classes every few months....</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 70 Assassin</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Strange, i have been in both DoF and KoS beta and the devs were very active on the beta boards with their communication towards their testers.....<BR>

[Sir Blig]

<DIV>As for my troub, LU13 was nothing compared to what this LU will do to them in its current state,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why, well because I made LVL 50 only 2 hours before LU13 was put out so I rolled into LU13 with to brand spanking new, well existing by LVL 50 spells , MEZ and CHARM and man o man they made so much difference, up to then it had been hard work, </DIV> <DIV>mez and charm added room to move and bought time to over come, just those two spell put playing a troub into a whole new and fun world.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't need to be reminded what it was like, having both riped out from under us will be major!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also will not be buying any option packs, I will try it out and if bad as expected I have a short list of other things I will be trying from the update (from other classes) once done if there is no light for troubs then I will have little choice to wave goodbuy, I don't want a class that has lost a major part of what I loved about it and does just about as good as it did 21 levels ago.<BR></DIV> <DIV>EDIT: for minor corrections</DIV><p>Message Edited by Sir Blight on <span class=date_text>05-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:44 PM</span>

[WAPCE]

<blockquote><hr>Aienaa wrote: <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Kinda weird SOE is showing people their stupid decisions before an Adventure Pack and New Expansion come out. They were smarter with the NGE of SWG. They didn't [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] over the players until the Expansion was bought. Good luck selling those add ons guys lol</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>On the contrary....  The Adventure Packs release date is the same date as the LU release date....  Also, if you remember back to LU#13, it was released on the same day as DoF....  They are using the same strat as before....  Release a crappy LU at the same time as an expansion... People will buy the expansion to check it out and at the same time determine if the LU is as bad as they though and maybe retain some people due to the Adv Pack...</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 70 Assassin</P><hr></blockquote>

[Reikov]

<P>I would like to give my personal opinion about the things i know of, mainly the major changes being made to the necromancer pets.</P> <P>not commenting on the pros or cons of other classes as i really dont play them mainly play a ranger and a necro (level 54 mistmoore) </P> <P>from what i understand the timers on pet abilies as well as damage is being lowered to "balance" to other classes well i can say beyond the shadow of a doubt that not only is the necros damage not in need of a balance but its very lacking to begin with my necromancer has close to full legendary/fabled gear and most every spell in master rank 1 or 2 so i should be at the top of the list for my level on dps, well i run a damage parser and i get out dpsed by well almost every other class that includes Conj of equal level with worse gear. so if the idea isnt to balance then what is the overall point of the nerf i read on other posts that people thought the game was being dumbed down like WOW i will disagree its turning into another eq1 rendering classes so weak on thier own that they will have no choice but to raid to really get anywhere and that was the core differene between eq1 and eq2 (eq1 luclin server 70th necro 1398 aa and dpob flagged and geared) but this was the reason i moved from eq1 to eq2 was that it seemed that the largest percent of the game was only accessable to the smallest percent of the players i was a raider and i admit it was very unfair in design. what sony has to realise is that with the heavy compotition now in the mmo field (vangard for starters) things like this type of down the board nerf will cost them money in the long run and not benifit thier customers one thing sony has never been stupid at is making money and things like this and the two days of hell rolebacks in eq1 "sorry friend you lost your flag you have been working for for 2 months sux to be you but have a nice day and thanks for your money" will in the long run drive people away and yes there will be others but these games just arent as popular as they used to be and any game with a steady customer really should hold onto them instead of doing things that will in the end drive them away the last comment i would like to make is this people say "we survived lu13 we will survive this" honestly the fact anyone "survived" it isnt even what matters the question is why should we have to. we build a character for a reason we like what they can do and what they cant do basicly we like thier design and how they function example if you are a huge grouper then you wouldnt make a necro so after we put many hours into them to get them where we want them to be sony comes in and changes the basic reasopn we made them in the first place kind of like ferarri coming in and putting 4 cylinders in all thier customers cars and saying oooops we thought they were just to fast compared to other cars sorry but we have your money already</P>

[Dyse]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Reikoven wrote:<BR> <P>I would like to give my personal opinion about the things i know of, mainly the major changes being made to the necromancer pets.</P> <P>not commenting on the pros or cons of other classes as i really dont play them mainly play a ranger and a necro (level 54 mistmoore) </P> <P>from what i understand the timers on pet abilies as well as damage is being lowered to "balance" to other classes well i can say beyond the shadow of a doubt that not only is the necros damage not in need of a balance but its very lacking to begin with my necromancer has close to full legendary/fabled gear and most every spell in master rank 1 or 2 so i should be at the top of the list for my level on dps, well i run a damage parser and i get out dpsed by well almost every other class that includes Conj of equal level with worse gear. so if the idea isnt to balance then what is the overall point of the nerf i read on other posts that people thought the game was being dumbed down like WOW i will disagree its turning into another eq1 rendering classes so weak on thier own that they will have no choice but to raid to really get anywhere and that was the core differene between eq1 and eq2 (eq1 luclin server 70th necro 1398 aa and dpob flagged and geared) but this was the reason i moved from eq1 to eq2 was that it seemed that the largest percent of the game was only accessable to the smallest percent of the players i was a raider and i admit it was very unfair in design. what sony has to realise is that with the heavy compotition now in the mmo field (vangard for starters) things like this type of down the board nerf will cost them money in the long run and not benifit thier customers one thing sony has never been stupid at is making money and things like this and the two days of hell rolebacks in eq1 "sorry friend you lost your flag you have been working for for 2 months sux to be you but have a nice day and thanks for your money" will in the long run drive people away and yes there will be others but these games just arent as popular as they used to be and any game with a steady customer really should hold onto them instead of doing things that will in the end drive them away the last comment i would like to make is this people say "we survived lu13 we will survive this" honestly the fact anyone "survived" it isnt even what matters the question is why should we have to. we build a character for a reason we like what they can do and what they cant do basicly we like thier design and how they function example if you are a huge grouper then you wouldnt make a necro so after we put many hours into them to get them where we want them to be sony comes in and changes the basic reasopn we made them in the first place kind of like ferarri coming in and putting 4 cylinders in all thier customers cars and saying oooops we thought they were just to fast compared to other cars sorry but we have your money already</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> P U N C T U A T I O N !    I really wanted to read all of this, but my eyes hurt 4 lines down.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I too play main to Necro.  Level 60 atm.  I'm a  'The Dedicated' meaning I've been around since launch.  Yeah, I actually do quests, hq's, and solo mah [Removed for Content] off and not racing to end game boredom.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I have maybe 1 peice of fabled in use, as most fabled drops goes for my alts as all I manage to get is plate armor, axes and such.  I'm hard pressed to continue if It will take me from being able to take on a White Con no arrow or even be close to death before defeating one. I've never been able to solo a heroic unless on last stage of Green Con.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>    I see the complaints of others on necro damage.  At 60, I may not be at the level of complaining.  Yet, I'm not trying to get 70 in 2 weeks either.  I see Bruisers/Monks with the 6,000+ Damage Vampire Spell.   I've seen Wizards do well over 10,000 dmg.   I've yet to hit over 700dmg in one whack.  I've NOT parsed my dots nor pet activity to find out what's what with it.  I use only Tanking pets as w/o a group, the others die to quick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  I see playing Necro's as Strategy.  Sending the troops out to do stuff while I act the General.  I'm relaxed, I'm not thinking I'm better than anyone.  And yet, I see that pet's are getting chopped.  As for Stuns that I have, I never use them. So no biggie there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  But still this patch insults Necros as well as EVERY OTHER ALT I have.  And I have 2 accounts with every class w/exception of Pali.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  2 Station Passes have been cancelled.  I'm playing until 2 days after patch comes out (when it deactivates for re-upping if the proposed date stays in effect).  If the LU doesn't come out by Cancelled date... so be it. IT's Summer, I have a Goldwing to tour around on.  Nothing keeping me inside except for... well, should have been except for EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Sorry for Random thinking.  Just spouting out.  Put it in any order ya want.</DIV>

[Sylvrin]

<P>I don't post much on the Forums because I am usually too busy having fun in the game, but I have to speak out this time.  I can't see much of any good at all coming from this change...even those who are supposed to benefit from it are complaining!  </P> <P>I have a level 70 troubador that is my favorite character to play, but until they finally fixed our charm and sleep songs and actually allowed them to work right, she was very hard to solo with.   I died constantly while soloing if I got even one add on me.   As I understood my class when I started playing it, troubs can and should be a bit of jack of all trades, meaning they can do a little bit of what most other classes do...including crowd control.</P> <P> I was thrilled when I finally got Lullaby in my spell book and when charm spells were fixed so that they actually worked as intended.  Now they are killing these two vital songs that a troub needs to solo.  And cheap shot...jees the thing barely works now...if you nerf it any more you might as well remove it from the game!</P> <P> I remember spending days trying to complete  the solo arena in splitpaw and failing miserabley until I hit level 50 and was able to use Lullaby.  That one song made all the difference and I was able to successfully complete the solo arena.  It DID NOT make it easy...it simply made it doable and I still had to be on my toes.  Same thing with the tears grifters solo instances...there were several of those that were completely dependent on Lullaby and charm to complete.  Troubadors literally will lose all ability to solo anything except green solo mobs if they destroy our charm and sleep spells like this.  </P> <P>Charm for 8 seconds with no ability to send the creature into attack?  That is literally turning that spell into a suicide spell.  You charm a mob, can't send him into attack so he stands there looking at you (just the way it works now)...then he defends you if you get hit and fights with whatever is attacking you...not long enough to kill either one of them...at the end of 8 seconds the charm breaks... they both attack you and troubador dies.  Charm works that way now if the charm is broken, but with a master1 version that doesn't happen too often and the rescast timer allows you to recharm.  With recast timer being made longer and duration nerfed to 98% shorter, this spell becomes nothing short of suicidal to use.    </P> <P>The way charm works now , you can't charm named creatures, you can't charm epics, you can't charm triple up sentient heroics or triple up sentient solo mobs.  So for the most part it is used as a solo tactic.  I also use it when I am duoing, but if I attmept to use it in a 6-man group, they usually get mad since they want to kill mobs, not have me turn them into pets.  My point being that this spell is used for solo and small group tactics almost exclusively, so why is it being ruined like this?  Now I admit , we certainly don't need to drag around a charmed pet for 7 minutes and 30 seconds, but for the love of all that is decent, give us enough time to make the spell useful and not a death sentence!</P><p>Message Edited by Sylvrin on <span class=date_text>05-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:46 PM</span>

[Maestroofsong]

<DIV>I also was a lvl70 troub.,, as well as a raiding warlock pre-DOF. Sad to say I canceled my account a little while ago. Hope to see my friends in Vanguard</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Mackralall, former warlock</DIV> <DIV>-Sonnica, former troubador</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Former EQ2 fan</DIV>

[350]

<P>As a 35 conjurer/58 alchemist I amd deeply scared by these changes.</P> <P> </P> <P>Comjurers were a good solo class, maybe the best.  That's why I picked conjurer.  We wern't breaking the game.  we wern't soloing red heroic mobs.  We were soloing solo mobs at a decent pace....   The increases to recast timers, and decreases to pet/dot damage is a total nerf.  There is nothing given to us to change focus, just negative changes.</P> <P> </P> <P>As an alchemist, a good 95% of my recepies are subcombines.  and they are what I created to make $ in the game.  Potions/poisons are a joke.  No one bought what I made (and stopped making because of that).  I made inks to make money, as I can make them cheaper than the sages who needed them could make them.   </P> <P>They have not anounced what new recepies are being introduced (if any), I'm really hoping that there is something on the new list worth making.  I could be one very unhappy CUSTOMER if things are as bleak as they apear so far.....</P>

[PcJUNKE]

I was really  REALLY worried about how bad the nerf to conjs was going to be and ya know what its not that bad whats a few more seconds on a timer =) <div></div>

[Rhouvus]

Lots of negative changes, and I, too, don't understand why.I solo most of the time (95%), and the game is still interesting because I can solo heroics 10 levels below mine. This allows me to not only do the simple quests at my level but also finish those that I could not do when I was that level. Ok, you might say that I can go there now when I am 15 levels above - but I won't get any xp then, and that would just be a waste of time.As I don't want to simply waste my time I just wait for the changes to go live and check them out. If I can't solo my heroics any more, I am finally out. And don't expect to find me in Vanguard. If it's SOE, I know what I'll find there eventually. If there is a strategy behind the changes, it is a very stupid one.<div></div>

[fioremag]

<DIV>i dont kno if someone posted as i dont have time to read 9 pages of post but please fix THORY TRAP for rangers its not working right on vox one of the pvp servers ,</DIV> <DIV>thanks</DIV>

[XtremSummo]

<DIV>Is it just me? I thought there were two goals to the LU.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Balance some damage imbalance issues</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Make soloists less able to take down content that is meant for groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seems to me that the changes are targetted at the goals reasonably well. A lot of the changes won't have half as much effect as people think they will.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I remember when the conjuror stifle was cut from 12 seconds to 5 seconds. I'll be honest and say that I thought it would destroy our ability to solo as well... it was a <STRONG>huge</STRONG> cut in stifle duration and I was convinced it would make a huge difference. In the end, once I'd adjusted my tactics a little and got used to the changes, it turned out not to make much of a difference at all. <shrug></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I reckon people will be surprised at how viable they will be once they've settled in and adjusted their tactics a little. There'll be more focus on needing teams to deal with ^^^ heroics (as there should be) but on the whole, I reckon we'll find that it's still possible to do the stuff we need to. I can't say for certain of course - and we won't know until the final version is pushed to live... but I reckon it'll be a storm in a teacup in the end.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>X</DIV>

[BSbon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackguard wrote:<BR> Here's an up-to-date list of the changes (primarily with control spells) currently on Test (or on shortly), courtesy of Lockeye:<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffcc00><B>Spells and Combat Arts</B></FONT><BR><BR>- All short knockdowns and many short stuns that were 2s in duration are changed to 1.5s duration.<BR>- All knockdowns and many short stuns that were 3- 4s in duration are changed to 2.5s duration.<BR>- All knockdown effects will not work on epics.<BR>- Adjusted all Root, Stifle, Stun, Mesmerize, and Fear durations to have consistent linear progression in durations with level increase.<BR>- All examine information references to Pacify have been changed to Daze.<BR>- Examine information describing control effects should be generally clearer than before.<BR>- All Mesmerize abilities have their own immunity separate of Stun immunity.<BR>- Spells that summon stationary objects will cause hate towards the caster instead of the object.<BR>- Swarm and Dumbfire pets had their inherent stat bonuses removed from contributing to their damage. This amounts to a 17.5% reduction in their overall damage.<BR><BR><B>Fighter changes:</B><BR>- Guardian: Crumble: Reduced damage on melee hit portion of combat art.<BR>- Guardian: Concussion: Increased damage, now reduces casting skills of target instead of power damage.<BR>- Guardian: Guardian Sphere: Intercept no longer assists pets in the group.<BR>- Guardian: Sentinel: Reduced some of the higher level chances at intercepting damage. Can only be used on Priests or Mages.<BR>- Berserker: Stunning Cry: power cost reduced.<BR>- Berserker: Vanquish: is now a 6s Stifle instead of a 6- 7s Stun.<BR>- Paladin: Glorious Strike effect from Glorious Weapon: reduced stun duration to 2.5 seconds.<BR>- Monk: Instill Doubt: changed from a Bruiser to a Brawler ability.<BR>- Bruiser: Intimidate: this combat art line now shares its reuse timer with Instill Doubt.<BR>- Bruiser: Sucker Punch: Knockdown changed to Daze effect.<BR>- Guardian: Entrench: Root component no longer affects Epic targets.<BR>- Guardian: Sentry Watch: Death prevention correctly does no process on the caster, only allies in the group.<BR>- Bruiser: Instill Doubt: Reduced fear duration, reduced power cost. Increased Resistability. Lowered overall break chances.<BR>- Bruiser: Intimidate: Increased Reuse timer to 60 seconds. Increased Resistability. Reduced Mesmerize duration and power cost.<BR><BR><B>Scout changes:</B><BR>- Scout: Cheap Shot: slightly reduced power cost. Duration is 4s instead of 6s on standard or weaker opponents.<BR>- Dirge: Lanet's Excruciating Scream: changed into short duration Daze effect that causes disease damage when it expires. The amount of damage was reduced. Reuse time increased to 30s.<BR>- Dirge: Garsin's Funeral March: Recast time increased to 45s from 30s. Overall break chance 30%.<BR>- Troubador: Lullaby: decreased duration, increase reuse timer to 20s.<BR>- Troubador: Bria's Entrancing Sonnet: Now works as a very short term charm.<BR>  * Reduced casting time to 2.5s.<BR>  * Has use of pet commands except to directly call an attack.<BR>  * Duration greatly reduced.<BR>  * Removed concentration costs.<BR>  * Increased reuse time to 60s.<BR>- Ranger: Thorny Trap: Duration of Root effect is reduced.<BR>- Predator: Surveil ranged lowered to 35 meters from 50 meters.<BR>- Brigand: Blackjack: changed from a 5s Stun to a 6s Hold Direction and Root ability, reduced damage and power cost.<BR>- Brigand: Strangling Throw: Reduced damage slightly.<BR>- Brigand: Double Up: Double Up list auto- adjusts to use abilities appropriate to the Brigand's level.<BR>- Brigand: Fixed issue causing combat art visuals to sometimes be played on the brigand.<BR>- Swashbuckler: Disarming Grin: Increased recast timer to 45s from 30s.<BR>- Swashbuckler: Cold Throw: Small reduction in damage.<BR>- Dirge: Sapping Shot: Recast time increased to 25s. Power drain changed to Root.<BR>- Troubador: Singing Shot: Stifle duration set to 6 seconds.<BR>- Troubador: Swindle Essence: Damage increased.<BR><BR><B>Priest changes:</B><BR>- Templar: Prostrate: Reduced casting time to 2.5 seconds, Increased Reuse time to 45s. Reduced power cost.<BR>- Templar: Divine Arbitration: No longer distributes health from dead players in the group.<BR>- Inquisitor: Fearful Conversion: lowered break chance overall to 30% on damage only, expiration effect is a periodic resist update mesmerize instead of root.<BR>- Inquisitor: Imprison: Increased Reuse time to 30s. Break chance occurs on damage only.<BR>- Defiler: Primordial Terror: Recast time increased to 45s from 30s. Overall break chance reduced to 30%.<BR>- Fury: Irritating Swarm: Has changed into a Stifle and Minor Snare. It is now on a 60s reuse timer and 1.5s casting time and shorter duration.<BR>- Fury: Pact of the Cheetah: also dispels hostile root effects.<BR>- Mystic: Phantasmal Spirits: reduced duration of Mesmerize to 5s.<BR>- Templar: Sign of Pacification: Increased reuse time to 30s. Casting time increased to 1.5 seconds. Daze effect does not break early.<BR>- Templar: Smite: Removed Daze effect. Reuse timer lowered to 2.5 seconds. Power cost reduced slightly.<BR>- Inquisitor: Invocation: Removed Stifle Effect, Power cost reduced slightly. 50% to interrupt target.<BR>- Fury: Call of Storms: Each Stormbolt cannot be interrupted and has an increased chance of striking than it did before.<BR>- Warden: Verdurous Journey: removed upgrade information and spell scrolls.<BR><BR><B>Mage changes:</B><BR>- Wizard, Warlock, Conjurer, Necromancer: Root Spells:<BR>  * Has 15% overall break chance instead of 20%<BR>  * Only processes break chances when damage is received, not on any hostile act towards the target.<BR>  * Duration reduced.<BR>- Wizard: Tongue Twist: Lowers Hate instead of dealing damage.<BR>- Wizard: Boreal: mesmerize effect on Caster automatically breaks if target's mesmerize breaks early.<BR>- Wizard: Ring of Cold: has 20% chance of breaking when receiving damage.<BR>- Warlock: Interference: Slightly lowers hate with encounter instead of dealing damage.<BR>- Warlock: Gas Cloud: Reduced stun duration to 1.5s. Lowered reuse timer from 15s to 9s.<BR>- Warlock: Dark Siphoning: Reduced casting time to 3s.<BR>- Warlock: Devastation: Removed stun component.<BR>- Warlock: Bony Grasp: has 15% chance of breaking when receiving damage.<BR>- Necromancer: Rat Swarm: Increased reuse time from 45 to 60s. Duration reduced to 45s on upgrades that were set to 60s.<BR>- Necromancer: Ghastly Stench: Increased reuse time from 45 to 60s.<BR>- Necromancer: Scout Pet: Removed DPS autoattack bonus.<BR>- Necromancer: Scout Pet: Reduced Damage on some of their combat arts.<BR>- Necromancer: Scout Pet: Acidity: Increased Reuse Timer to 90s.<BR>- Necromancer: Fighter Pet: Graven Frenzy: slightly reduced damage.<BR>- Necromancer: Aggression: Increased casting skill bonuses granted to pet.<BR>- Necromancer: Fear: Recast time increased to 45s from 30s. Overall break chance reduced to 30%.<BR>- Necromancer: Grasp: Lowered resistability, reduced casting time to 1.5s, increased reuse time to 45s.<BR>- Necromancer: Heal Minion: Casting time reduced to 1 second. Increased overall heal amount and duration reduced to 6 seconds.<BR>- Necromancer: Grisly Defense: Slightly improved reactive heal component.<BR>- Conjurer: Aqueous Stalkers: Increased reuse time from 45 to 60s.<BR>- Conjurer: Roaring Flames: Increased reuse time from 45 to 60s.<BR>- Conjurer: Scout Pet: Removed DPS autoattack bonus.<BR>- Conjurer: Scout Pet: Reduced Damage on some of their combat arts.<BR>- Conjurer: Scout Pet: Galestorm: Increased reuse timer to 90s.<BR>- Conjurer: Fighter Pet: Telluric Pummel: slightly reduced damage.<BR>- Conjurer: Agitate: Reduced Intelligence bonus granted to pet.<BR>- Conjurer: Shattered Ground: Reduced Damage and power cost.<BR>- Conjurer: Elemental Vestment: Reduced Damage. Lowered casting time to 2s from 3s.<BR>- Conjuror: Heal Servant: Increased heal amount and power cost.<BR>- Conjurer: Petrify: Lowered resistability, increased reuse timer to 45s.<BR>- Conjurer: Shattered Terrain: Increased casting time from 2s to 3s, Dazes but does not Stifle.<BR>- Enchanter: Blink: Hate reduction amount grows with level.<BR>- Coercer: Despotic Mind: Casting time reduced to 1.5 seconds. Power cost reduced.<BR>- Coercer: Mind Bend: Restored stun duration to 4 seconds. Casting time reduced to 1.5 seconds. Reuse time increased to 30 seconds.<BR>- Coercer: Terrible Awe and Illusionist: Phantasmal Splendor:<BR>  * Resistability increased<BR>  * Casting time increased to 2s<BR>  * Reuse timer increased to 15s.<BR>  * Removed number of targets restriction for PvE.<BR>  * Removes target from area effects.<BR>  * Mesmerize effect can now affect Epic targets.<BR>- Coercer: Stupefy<BR>  * Functions as a medium- long duration target area effect Stun.<BR>  * Resistability increased<BR>  * Casting time set to 2.5s<BR>  * Reuse time is 45s.<BR>  * Stun effect can now affect Epic targets.<BR>- Illusionist: Bewilderment:<BR>  * Functions as a medium duration target area effect Stun.<BR>  * Resistability increased<BR>  * Casting time increased to 2s<BR>  * Reuse time is 30s.<BR>  * Removed number of targets restriction for PvE.<BR>  * Stun effect can now affect Epic targets.<BR>- Coercer: Psychic Wail:<BR>  * Increased reuse to 45s.<BR>  * Stun effect can now affect Epic targets.<BR>- Coercer: Channel: No longer distributes power from dead players in the group. Damage redueced.<BR>- Coercer: Ego Shock: Changed Root into target encounter Daze that always lands. Reuse timer changed to 45s. Damage reduced. Daze effect will affect Epic targets.<BR>- Illusionist: Illusory Allies: Reduced damage and health of summoned illusions.<BR>- Illusionist: Headache: Changed Mez into Daze that always lands. Reuse timer changed to 30s. Damage redueced. Daze effect will affect Epic targets.<BR>- Coercer: Amnesia: Stun effect can now affect Epic targets.<BR>- Coercer: Slumber: Mesmerize effect can now affect Epic targets.<BR>- Coercer: Silence: Stifle effect can now affect Epic targets.<BR>- Coercer: Medusa Gaze: Stun effect can now affect Epic targets.<BR>- Illusionist: Sleep: Mesmerize effect can now affect Epic targets.<BR>- Illusionist: Convincing Regalia: Mesmerize effect can now affect Epic targets.<BR>- Illusionist: Overwhelming Silence: Stifle effect can now affect Epic targets.<BR>- Illusionist: Confusion: Stun effect can now affect Epic targets.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffcc00><B>Achievements</B></FONT><BR><BR>- All Achievements that provided increased casting speed with increased rank received a boost.<BR>- Warrior: Wis 2: Belly Smash: Removed additional knockdown effect.<BR>- Predator: Agi 2: Point Blank Shot: Reduced stun duration, Recast time lowered to 45s, damage slightly decreased.<BR>- Bard: Sta 2: Round Bash: Upgrades affect the knockback stun duration. Increased damage.<BR>- Cleric: Sta 2: Hammer Smite: Upgrades affect the knockback stun duration.<BR>- Shaman: Sta 2: Crippling Bash: Upgrades affect the knockback stun duration.<BR>- Summoner: Sta 2: Shockwave: Upgrades affect the knockback stun duration.<BR>- Rogue: Agi 2: Walk the Plank: Added root effect to Hold Direction.<BR>- Brawler: Int 2: Eagle Spin: Added root effect to Hold Direction.<BR>- Bard: Sta 5: Shield Focus: Properly Roots bard in place, and grants knockdown immunity.<BR>- Crusader: Agi 5: Lance: Damage over time effect will now stack with other allies.<BR>- Predator: Int 5: Intoxication: Damage over time effect will now stack with other allies.<BR>- Shaman: Str 2: Leg Bite: Damage over time effect will now stack with other allies.<BR>- Crusader: Str 5: Eidolic Axe: Hate Buff is now hidden.<BR>- Summoner: Wis 5: Animist Bond: Corrected amount of power that is drained from the pet when they receive damage.<BR>- Sorcerer: Sta 5: Manashield: Corrected amount of power that is drained when receiving damage.<BR>- Crusader: Sta 5: Divine Aura: Stoneskin effect works properly.<BR>- Cleric: Sta 5: Divine Aura: Stoneskin effect works properly.<BR>- Rogue: Wis: Abilities that have an empty offhand requirement also check that the primary weapon is not 2- handed.<BR>- Brawler: Int 3: Eagle's Fury: Reduced melee critical chance. <P>Message Edited by Blackguard on <SPAN class=date_text>05-17-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:52 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>dont you think that instead of nerfing duration on everyone's stuns thus hurting their solo play that it would have been much better to limit everyone's stun stifle and root to ^ and lower mobs? Then have enchanter stuns, mez and root work against ^^ and higher. this just sounds way better to me.

[dashriah]

<P>          I have enjoyed both EQ1 and EQ2 ....but I left EQ1 because it was almost impossible to solo....for me the lure to EQ2 originally,  was the fact that I would have the ability to solo....I was never a fan of always having to group.....I like the fact that when I got home from work and was tired of <EM><STRONG>mean ppl</STRONG>  </EM>that I could just take some time to myself and relax just playing my toon alone with no demands on my time.....</P> <P>         I don't understand the need for SOE to push us to all be<STRONG><EM><U> "Happy Groupies"</U> ....</EM></STRONG> I am perfectly content being independent...I don't need to rely on other ppl to enhance my game playing time, so stop forcing the issue.  </P> <P>        When I want to group I do.  I am not Anti-Group...I just like some down time (to solo) once in awhile.  I belong to a great Guild and a great Alliance for raids.  I love to help but sometimes it's nice to fly under everyone's radar and have some          <STRONG><EM>de-stressed</EM> </STRONG>play time.</P> <P>       If SOE is making changes to benefit <EM>all players</EM> play time <STRONG>great....</STRONG>BUT sometimes it seems onesided,  to push us to be dependent on a Group.</P> <P>        <EM>  Server GUK</EM>  70/Fury, 66/Provisioner........48/Pally....  41/Brigand,22/Carpenter...... 40/Illusionist,20/Sage</P> <P>  Just my 2cents......thx</P> <P> </P>