LU24 Why are conjurors getting balanced? Debate the issue.

[Telaris]

<DIV>First I will start off by saying I have several level 70 characters.  One of them is a ranger so I know all about getting majorly nerfed (i.e. going too far) but SOE did eventually bring them back to reasonable T1 damage.   I also raid with a level 70 conjuror so I have a lot of experience in this area.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My concern is this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Conjurors ONLY do excellent DPS when the following occurs:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.) Long fights - at least one minute plus</DIV> <DIV>2.) Dumbfire Pets live</DIV> <DIV>3.) Pet does not get AOE nuked.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Raid Fights:</DIV> <DIV>If the fight is short with multiple mobs usually the Berzerker, Bruiser, Warlock or Wizard come out on top.  Zerkers and Bruisers rule the DPS parsers in AOE fights that are quick.  No way you can touch em.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the fight is short single target, wizards and scouts will own the parser, especially with a Brigand Dispatching.  Well played swashbucklers are awesome in single target fights.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the fight is medium, multiple targets, warlocks and wizzies do very well, basically they dont run out of power and can nuke with abandon until the mobs are dead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the fight is a long one, ie people start to run out of power, then of course the Conjuror will win the parse as long as the dumbfire pets are not killed and your pet is not killed by an AE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In summary, why are you even balancing summoners when other characters easily own the parsers in most of the situations.  Have you ever seen how SAD a conjuror DPS is without his/her pet.  I think our highest nuke is in the 700's with max INT.  Our pet IS out DAMAGE period.  I think the biggest issue is simple fix the massive damage that can come from the Elemental Vestement  spell or Blazing Avatar Line.  The pet by itself is not overpowered, just the way those particular spells can do massive damage.  Fix them don't fix a downstream problem.  Also people dont realize that the parser is also adding the damage of the dumbfire pets to the main pet and assuming that the pet by itself did all that damage which is not the case.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Example fight(s):</DIV> <DIV>The last MoB in LoA, long fight with many stages.  He does not AE kill the main pet, therefore, over the 4 minute fight or so, the conjuror will win this parse.</DIV> <DIV>The last MoB in LoV (dragon), has a huge AE with a large radius that instant kills pets), therefore, the rangers win this fight cuz there ranged attacks rule with him.  The conjuror  DPS in this fight is lucky to be T3.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Group Fights: (6 people stuff)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again damage is completely dependant on length of fight.  Short fights, wizzy, warlocks, and scouts win. Long fights the parse willl eventually come around to the conjuror.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I primarily use my scout pet on raids because frankly the mage pet while having nice damage has like 2 hps.  If the mob looks at it, it dies a horrible death.  I do have the master spell for the scout, mage and earth pet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, I can't read what you are doing in LU24 but don't understand why this is being considered.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for reading!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Rast]

<P>In my opinion, it is because some people with egos too big for their britches decided they don't like not being the top DPS in every encounter and since Conjurers beat them in ONE type of fight, they attack them and whine and moan and b!tch...  And for the record, the only conjurer on my account is a crafter (mid 20s provie, 7 conjurer) so I don't have a personal stake in this.</P> <P>My only issue with conjurers is trying to pull agro off of the pet (I play a pally) but I understand why it is (because without it, the conjurer dies a quick and painless death).</P>

[Cuz]

I just think that a bad summoner can still be a farely affective one. It's not so much true with other classes.

[efarbero]

<DIV>Completly agree with the OP. </DIV>

[Tro]

Wow nice post.. Kinda makes you look at this in a new light.. I wonder if we can get a Dev to comment on the OP..

[Vulking]

<P>To the OP:</P> <P>I'm sorry, but you really have no idea what a nerf is, try playing a guardian, troubador, or templar post and pre LU13.  "Rangers nerfed hard", hahaha thats a good one.</P> <P>Seriously tho, summoners are not, on average, supposed to be out DPSing, rangers, assassins, wizards.  I would include warlocks but what class are they again???</P> <P>BTW, I play a mystic. But have played all classes related to this post, including rangers(to level40) and conjurors(3<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P>

[Rast]

in my opinion, what needs to be fixed is the sorcerer line...  They need their power costs lowered, their recast timers cut some and get less agro for their burst damage allowing them to fully utilize their ablities more.  I know as a semi-tank, I usually use the wizard agro management system and that is making sure the wizard is always at 50% of mana or less (to make him slow down on his casting <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)

[Telaris]

<P>To Hammarus:</P> <P>Conjurors are NOT out DPSing those classes at all unless the fight is really long. </P> <P> As to being nerfed, I am only commenting about classes I have played that have been nerfed so I have not played the classes you have listed to have first hand knowledge.  I still think nerfing conjurors because they are out dpsing other classes on long fights is downright wrong.  They should be since we have a damage source that requires no continuous power.</P> <P>I would like to hear why the DEV's think the conjuror can out dps the other classes in short fights because they can NOT, we do not have the AE ability and it takes time for our damage to build up so to speak.</P>

[HomeChicken]

<DIV>i have seen conjys put out PLENTY of damage in short term fights, single target or AOE fights, on mobs with or without AOEs, i agree with the whole dont nerf summoers, beef up the other classes that need it, but that will never happen /shrugs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Magus_Bl]

From what I have seen, Conjuror changes are minimal on this LU.  It's not as if there aren't many other classes getting hit with the nerf bat.  I am sorry, but I fail to see what this course of whining is about, exactly.

[Rijacki]

<div><blockquote><hr>HomeChicken wrote:<div>i have seen conjys put out PLENTY of damage in short term fights, single target or AOE fights, on mobs with or without AOEs, i agree with the whole dont nerf summoers, beef up the other classes that need it, but that will never happen /shrugs</div> <hr></blockquote>Ditto.As a 52ish wizard (forget my actual level then), I was even being out done by a conjurer who was 4 levels lower than me.. in a group.. fighting blue and white heroics.  His standard nukes weren't far from my standards (i.e. not the LONG cast ice comet, the other ones) all while his pet was doing high damage.  The damage from both the conjurer and the dps pets should be added together to be rated against the supposed teir 1 DPSers.  If that sum, in looooong fights, is close to the damage from a wizard or ranger, that wouldn't be inordinate.  But to have each of them, the conjurer and the pet not all that far off from the wizard or ranger is more than just a bit overpowered.If you take the conjurer's damage added to the defensive pet's damage and it's still close to or over that which a wizard or ranger can put it, it's still waaaaay overpowered since that's basically 2 player characters being obsoleted by one.  A tank with a healer and a wizard should considerably outdamage a conjurer with his defensive pet.A wizard and a ranger with a healter should way more than double the damage output from a conjurer with an offensive pet of any kind.</div>

[WAPCE]

<blockquote><hr>Trook wrote:Wow nice post.. Kinda makes you look at this in a new light.. I wonder if we can get a Dev to comment on the OP..<hr></blockquote> They've already done so at great length <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=102725#M102725" target=_blank>here</a> and <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=104037#M104037" target=_blank>here</a>. Saying that you (the OP) thinks the log parses that the designers have access to (for reference, that's all of them) are wrong doesn't really add much.

[Telaris]

<DIV>All I am saying is based on my experiences, which are vast since I parse ALL the time... I am like the parse guru... I do not see that situation that are trying to fix!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Copy from Post:</DIV> <DIV>Currently, Conjurers and Necromancers are a very powerful class that can deliver the most consistent damage in the shortest amount of time and can solo more powerful encounters than most other classes. One of the problems is that their single target damage can exceed that of Wizards in solo, group, and raid situations, even when hostile area effect damage is considered that can kill swarm and dumbfire pets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is simply not true.   The most consistent damage in the shortest amount of time is usually not the conjuror.  The single target damage will never exceed the wizard in solo group and raid situations unless the wizard is highly resisted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now if he said the most consistent damge over the longer fights I would whole heartedly agree.  That is the point I am trying to make.</DIV>

[Cowdenic]

<DIV>this is really easy to explain.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They will not boost Sorcerers in any way right now, infact we are getting a small nerf also on this LU Warlocks are getting hit with a larger one. So the only way to fix everything is to Nerf Conjurors, and every reasonable person who plays one knew this was coming because as we all know they were not going to boost Sorcerors. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do not worry though, because you see, with the nerf to roots coming to Sorcerers, you will still be the best soloers in the game, the most cost effective DPS in the game, Very high on the DPS charts, and generally have little to worry about. With your scout pet you will still be able to probably out DPS wizards on single target encounters, and with your mage pet you will definitely still be able to out DPS warlocks in multi target encounters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But then dont let logic and the truth color your opinion of what is what. I mean you know what you know.</DIV>

[Poochymama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Telaris wrote:<BR> <DIV>All I am saying is based on my experiences, which are vast since I parse ALL the time... I am like the parse guru... I do not see that situation that are trying to fix!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Copy from Post:</DIV> <DIV>Currently, Conjurers and Necromancers are a very powerful class that can deliver the most consistent damage in the shortest amount of time and can solo more powerful encounters than most other classes. One of the problems is that their single target damage can exceed that of Wizards in solo, group, and raid situations, even when hostile area effect damage is considered that can kill swarm and dumbfire pets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is simply not true.   The most consistent damage in the shortest amount of time is usually not the conjuror.  The single target damage will never exceed the wizard in solo group and raid situations unless the wizard is highly resisted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now if he said the most consistent damge over the longer fights I would whole heartedly agree.  That is the point I am trying to make.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually it is true. Even in short fights that last a mere 12 seconds conjurors still own the parsers if they know what they are doing. The conjuror I group with owns burst DPS like 3x the amount of DMG that a wizzie can burst, but the wiz does start to catch up on longer fights (though he never passes)</P> <P> </P> <P>Basically in short burst fights for groups (not raids) it usually looks like this</P> <P>(5-6 second fights in AoE)</P> <P>Conjuror 9000 - 12000 DPS</P> <P>Wizard 3000 - 4000 DPS </P> <P> </P> <P>(8-12 second fights single target)</P> <P>Conjuror 2000-2200 </P> <P>Wizard 1200-1600</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>That is about as much as they can burst if you have very skilled peeps behind the toons.</P> <P> </P> <P>In longer fights that last like 20-30 seconds on single target the wizard starts to catch up a little</P> <P> </P> <P>Conjuror 1600-1800</P> <P>Wizard 1400-1600</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>In 1 min to 12 min fights it pretty much stays like this. With the summoner 200 or so DPS above the sorceror</P> <P> </P> <P>In 12 min + fights the sorceror starts having to power feed and thus loses DPS</P> <P> </P> <P>Conjuror  1600-1800</P> <P>Wizard 900-1200</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Basically as a conjuror you should never really get out DPSed by a sorceror if you know what you are doing. Yes they will come pretty close to you when they have Ice Nova up, but you should still beat them as long as you have Blazing Presence or Elemental Vestement up. The other 4/5 fights when they don't have Ice Nova up (assuming your in a group that pulls fast) you should absolutely destroy their DPS. The only time they should beat you is every 3 mins if they save fusion and IN  for the same encounter.</P> <P> </P> <P>On 30 sec fights thats were you get to see a classes true sustained DPS, and with proper raid gear and group setup that will pretty much be the DPS they sustain for the first 12 min or so until the power heavy classes start having to feed.</P> <P> </P>

[MrHell]

One thing people often forget is that you can't look at a single fight in isolation (unless Raid named). You need to look at a series of encounters over a period of time. Yes my assassin can use all his high damage CAs and out dps a summoner in one fight. But killing 3 heroic mobs/groups in 1 minute means that I (and Wizards) can't use most of my high damage CA's more than once. This is where the summoners shine. Their DPS is high and consistent. <div></div>

[Taninga]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rijacki wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> HomeChicken wrote:<BR> <DIV>i have seen conjys put out PLENTY of damage in short term fights, single target or AOE fights, on mobs with or without AOEs, i agree with the whole dont nerf summoers, beef up the other classes that need it, but that will never happen /shrugs</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Ditto.<BR><BR>As a 52ish wizard (forget my actual level then), I was even being out done by a conjurer who was 4 levels lower than me.. in a group.. fighting blue and white heroics. <FONT color=#ff3333> His standard nukes weren't far from my standards</FONT> (i.e. not the LONG cast ice comet, the other ones) all while his pet was doing high damage.  <BR><BR>The damage from both the conjurer and the dps pets should be added together to be rated against the supposed teir 1 DPSers.  If that sum, in looooong fights, is close to the damage from a wizard or ranger, that wouldn't be inordinate.  But to have each of them, the conjurer and the pet not all that far off from the wizard or ranger is more than just a bit overpowered.<BR><BR>If you take the conjurer's damage added to the defensive pet's damage and it's still close to or over that which a wizard or ranger can put it, it's still waaaaay overpowered since that's basically 2 player characters being obsoleted by one.  <BR><BR>A tank with a healer and a wizard should considerably outdamage a conjurer with his defensive pet.<BR>A wizard and a ranger with a healter should way more than double the damage output from a conjurer with an offensive pet of any kind.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Couldn't help but respond to that sentence. We have ONE nuke that does around 300-400 points at that stage. we only ever have 1 nuke.</P> <P>Our dots are pretty small, we do about a third to a quarter of our pet's dps. Our 'defensive pet' (i assume you me tank pet with defensive buff) has fairly laughable dps with rather good taunts, plenty of hp with pretty much no mitigation.</P> <P>It's completely uneducated posts like this that probably will mean conjuror's getting nerfed to oblivion anyway - lucky i have plenty of alts.</P> <P>Mind you i agree that wizards and definately warlock need a boost, they should outdamage ranger/assassins since the predator class is wearing chain and has more in the way of 'utility' and debuffs.<BR></P> <P>PS: Just wanted to add for the people who think wizards and warlocks should outdamge conj/necro by miles because we have a pet:</P> <P>In order to actually do similiar dps to a wiz we have to use a mage/scout pet which usually lasts 1 (maybe 2)  hits if it gets aggro at which point it dies, we get all it's aggro then we die and there's usually not a thing the tank can do to taunt it off before we're dead. Great defence the pet is eh?</P><p>Message Edited by Taningard on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:43 AM</span>

[Telaris]

<DIV>I agree the Wizzies and Warlocks could use a boost but I don't see where conjuror do more burst DPS then other T1 classes on short fights.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However this is probably a moot point since the DEV's have decided....  I just hope they realize that conjuror DPS is dependant completely on the PETs.  Fights where they are taken out of the picture a Fury can out DPS us.  (yes furies rock)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like I said we can only hope for the best and if they nerf conjurors, it is not like I am going to quit its just that I personaly think they are nerfing for the wrong reason.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is looking forward to the Stun/Root/Stifle Nerf along with all the other nerfage associated with LU24, may it never come to fruition!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[crimsonm]

I am a level 61 conjuror on the Mistmoore server. I am only stating my opinion on why these changes are happening as I for the most part believe in SOE. I do not beleieve they are idiots, and I do not believe they would actually intentionally do something to hurt the longevity of there game. I feel that wether this change is warranted or not is is most likely the result of the relative ease and safety that the average conjuror exsperiences acrossed the gamut be raid, group or solo. The is realtively no skill involved post combat update to be a conpetent conjuror which is one of the reasons they exploded after some of the parse data leaked into the community. We really are the perfect class, we can regen mana quickly and augmented with mana stone we can regen mana very quickly. We have loads of get outta death free cards, and a good conjuror should never die unless they are trying something a little crazy. Granted I have not figured out how some Conj take out yellow heroics but I can solo green heroics with ease, and actually solo mobs all the way up too low orange although the low oranges get me prolly 20% of the time do to resists. My point is I do not believe we should get a nerf, but I think the nerf we are getting is becuase we are way too easy to play. entirely to useful if not in raid at least in group and solo. Wether it be long or short fights our DPS is way to consistent. Krystal Ningyo <div></div>

[Beldin_]

<blockquote><hr>Poochymama p wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Telaris wrote:<DIV>All I am saying is based on my experiences, which are vast since I parse ALL the time... I am like the parse guru... I do not see that situation that are trying to fix!</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Copy from Post:</DIV><DIV>Currently, Conjurers and Necromancers are a very powerful class that can deliver the most consistent damage in the shortest amount of time and can solo more powerful encounters than most other classes. One of the problems is that their single target damage can exceed that of Wizards in solo, group, and raid situations, even when hostile area effect damage is considered that can kill swarm and dumbfire pets.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>This is simply not true.   The most consistent damage in the shortest amount of time is usually not the conjuror.  The single target damage will never exceed the wizard in solo group and raid situations unless the wizard is highly resisted.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Now if he said the most consistent damge over the longer fights I would whole heartedly agree.  That is the point I am trying to make.</DIV><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Actually it is true. Even in short fights that last a mere 12 seconds conjurors still own the parsers if they know what they are doing. The conjuror I group with owns burst DPS like 3x the amount of DMG that a wizzie can burst, but the wiz does start to catch up on longer fights (though he never passes)</P><P> </P><P>Basically in short burst fights for groups (not raids) it usually looks like this</P><P>(5-6 second fights in AoE)</P><P>Conjuror 9000 - 12000 DPS</P><P>Wizard 3000 - 4000 DPS </P><P> </P><P>(8-12 second fights single target)</P><P>Conjuror 2000-2200 </P><P>Wizard 1200-1600</P><P> </P><P> </P><P> </P><P>That is about as much as they can burst if you have very skilled peeps behind the toons.</P><P> </P><P>In longer fights that last like 20-30 seconds on single target the wizard starts to catch up a little</P><P> </P><P>Conjuror 1600-1800</P><P>Wizard 1400-1600</P><P> </P><P> </P><P>In 1 min to 12 min fights it pretty much stays like this. With the summoner 200 or so DPS above the sorceror</P><P> </P><P>In 12 min + fights the sorceror starts having to power feed and thus loses DPS</P><P> </P><P>Conjuror  1600-1800</P><P>Wizard 900-1200</P><P> </P><P> </P><P>Basically as a conjuror you should never really get out DPSed by a sorceror if you know what you are doing. Yes they will come pretty close to you when they have Ice Nova up, but you should still beat them as long as you have Blazing Presence or Elemental Vestement up. The other 4/5 fights when they don't have Ice Nova up (assuming your in a group that pulls fast) you should absolutely destroy their DPS. The only time they should beat you is every 3 mins if they save fusion and IN  for the same encounter.</P><P> </P><P>On 30 sec fights thats were you get to see a classes true sustained DPS, and with proper raid gear and group setup that will pretty much be the DPS they sustain for the first 12 min or so until the power heavy classes start having to feed.</P><P> </P><hr></blockquote>Lol .. can you plaese post some Pictures or whatever of these parses, because i always herepeople throw around these numbers, but personally nearly never see any kind of characterjust hit 1000 dps.What i normally see is :Conjurer 200-250 DPSPets 300-550 DPS = 500-800Wizards,Rangers 500-850 DPS<p>Message Edited by Beldin_ on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:05 AM</span>

[valkyrja]

Leaving issues of how people think their class should be aside, this all comes down to balance.I think that the devs are happy with the sorceror classes, and see us fitting in right where they want us.  This is why we see so few changes to our class, and when we do, they aren generally not game changing.  If this is in fact true, they feel they should adjust classes around us, as opposed to making us even more powerful.<div></div>

[Steven9]

Why does soe let us play our class for months the way we like them then all of a sudden nerf us?  If soe doesnt want conj to be top dps then just take away our pet and we can be another useless class like enchanters :smileysad:

[Grace37]

I have a conjurer level 59And what I have experanced so far is that conjurers are rarely wanted in groups because they usuialy dont have anything special to ad to the group like healing or croud control. The few times I have gotten groups was simply to add to dps.I have also noticed that the conjurer class isnt very popular. Not many out there in comparasin to the other classes.Conjurers only real chance of succeeding at this game is there ability to solo.Then I hear all the changes going to the conjurer line...now it is going to be even harder to solo and now groups wount even want us for there groups because we dont do the dps we use to.There constantly nurfing the pets.There constantly raising recast times and lowering dammage.pretty soon it is going to be near impossable to play the conjurer class.They almost destroyed the scouts chance or even there reason for being in the game.Now there doing it to the conjurer class.All you other classes look out the thing with balenceing is that when all is done one class will always seem more powerfull so they will go after that one and so on till all classes are cloans of eachother or just not fun to play. just like they were doing in eqlive and just like they did in galaxies

[Telka]

<DIV>IMHO a conj or necro + dps pet should not be able to out dps a WIZ Warlock Assassin Ranger</DIV>

[sAs-Bartleby]

<div></div> I don´t understand the neverending discussion between wizards and all other. It doesn´t depend so much on the skills to be nr. one in a parse. <b>It is all about luck. </b>As a warlock for example i can be lucky and can choose a mob in the encounter that nobody else choose and can cast devastation and null absolution. Bang i am the Nr. one If i am unlucky the tank cannot held aggro or the mobs die to fast in everybodys AeO demage which is cast faster than my spells. And Bang i am nr. 16. The next thing which interacts with it, is our personaly situation. If i am tired i will be to slow to react and i am always outdamage by chars i would normaly "beat" If i drink two or three beers two much i might be high on parse and low on outfit. There are so much influences and i think all of you only pick one situation and makes them for all situation valid. It did not depend on how much damage we made on raid. It only depend on how much fun can i have with a char when i don´t find someone to play in a group. Yes i can do a lot of damage on Raids with a warlock..... but no it does not make fun to run alone with her. (didn´t play her much since DoF) Yes i can make a lot of damage with my Ranger...... but no it does not make any fun anymore with her. (didn´t play her much since KoS) Yes i can make a lot of damage with my conjurer...... and it makes fun with her solo...... but yes LU 24 will come and i will see what´s next. By the way i do not only have damage dealer if someone is now thinking. I also have a Warden, a pally, a monk, an illu and a dirge <b> </b><div></div><p>Nachricht bearbeitet von sAs-Bartleby am <span class=date_text>05-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:00 AM</span>

[Renpatsu]

<DIV>I won't get why almost everyone thinks the world would collapse because of this topic. I read statements from test players of different classes - including summoners - who are telling us, that these are minor changes at least to soloing and grouping - I don't think I read a raid statement yet. Yes summoners will be toned down a bit and I can understand why SoE is going that way. When it's for better of the game, more power to SoE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We'll overall do less damage, this will make those happy who watch the DPS ladder closely and who cry for every other class performing better than themselves. For me personally, if I would complain about almost every change or other classes, I would seriously ask me: Do I enjoy this game anymore ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do enjoy the content of EQ2 and I do like my class. I think this will be the case after LU24 as well, as I don't see any really heavy impact yet.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Renpatsu on <span class=date_text>05-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:11 AM</span>