re: bards.

[Terabithi]

I won't fill this space with the comments you've already read. You know what though, I think it is DISGRACEFUL that since reading the dirge and troubadour (spell it right dammit) boards since launch, I have YET to see any kind of dev or any somewhat important individual comment on ANYTHING. I don't even play a bard. My very first character (which had the jboots, dragon, and painting) was a bard, and I deleted him because he was terrible. I sympathize with bards. It's not about dps, it's not about buffs or utility, it is about PLAYABILITY. You continue to make the bards almost unplayable. It is like you go out of your way constantly to make the class an awful experience to play. Now, I understand that some brave souls have succeeded where MANY OTHERS have failed, and my heart goes out to them. They are a dedicated and rugged bunch of gamers. WHEN WILL THE BARD CLASSES BE ADDRESSED? You make them a scout, but then prohibit them from using poisons because you gave them combat procs, and then you either took the procs away (troub) or made them only work on the primary weapon. WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE TO TROUBADOURS?? This class is awful. Why not simply retitle them "Caster-slaves"? I'm so angry, and yet, there is NO EVIDENCE that anyone of any importance is reading this stuff. again, I'm not whining about dps, or lack of power. I understand the concept of the bards . What I don't understand is why they are completely ignored on these boards. completely. ignored. thank goodness you gave them handy achievements, like "coin toss". [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]??!? You can't even spell the damned class correctly. growl. GROWL. even your best bards are starting to feel glum, and you wouldn't even know it because you don't read their posts. bah. why do I even bother?.

[Terabithi]

I put this all on this board because the bard changes are terrible. It's like you're tinkering around with the most useless songs imaginable, and making them even more useless. The end result will be the only bards left being guild-bards that are used as tools in raids. it doesn't have to be that way. You could LISTEN to your player-base.

[Jaimster]

<P>Thank you for your support!!! </P>

[Geekyone]

<P>I enjoy playing my bard (Troubadour) he is however only 19.</P> <P>I like the usefulness that he seems to have...but like I said I'm only 19 so I don't really know the class that well yet.</P>

[Oneira]

We're going to have to wait and see what actually comes out of Test, but if the current changes for become part of LU24 and Troubador charm is reduced to a shell of its former self, then there will in all likelihood be a mass deleting and shelving of Troubadors and the class will be effectively dead. I know I'll shelve mine. <div></div>

[Gharik]

Oh, they're useful alright, in groups. They just can't solo at all. Bard is the only class I can't complete certain solo instanced quests with, they just have by far the lowest combo of dps & survivability. Even my warden can beat mobs my bard can't. <div></div>

[masakre]

<DIV>Sony doesn't want anyone to solo any more. They are revamping it to require grouping. I see no other reason behind their NERFING</DIV>

[Icecreamman]

<P>Yes thank you for the support.  I have sent Dev's PM's but nothing.  I asked them to just post in the Troubador forum, nothing.</P> <P>It's been months since they posted on our forum and if you look at the post for troubadors we are the lowest post count of all the classes.</P> <P>Pls step up and support the troubador class, the changes shouldn't be allowed to go live.  We need the help from all the classes because we lack the numbers it seems to catch the Dev's attention.</P>

[trysta]

<div><blockquote><hr>Terabithian wrote:I don't even play a bard. My very first character (which had the jboots, dragon, and painting) was a bard, and I deleted him because he was terrible. I sympathize with bards. <hr></blockquote>I did this -same exact thing-However, I rerolled a bard back in December after being increasingly frustrated with my wizard. I'm about to ding 70, because I honestly have a fun time playing my bard. But, I really do see your point. The only troubadour in my guild is absolutely frustrated with these changes to his class. I don't think these changes are going to impact dirges heavily, but honestly, what's the point of them besides to kick a man when he's already down?Consistently, population statistics depict troubadours and dirges as the least played classes (right above coercers and inquisitors). What's the purpose of debilitating two classes that are already seen by the mass majority of the population as inferior classes?Seriously, someone needs to get his head out of his [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and realize what they're doing to these classes is unacceptable.</div>

[SureShot]

Great post.  Thanks for the support, we really need it at this point.

[reaper_m]

<P>Much appreciated, Tera. I don't know you but I like you already. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Your post is certainly uplifting after having read this in another <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=73422#M73422" target=_blank>thread</A>.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Soljin wrote:<BR><BR> <P>I seem to remember a few months back always gettings excited when I saw <FONT color=#66cc66><STRONG>45 Troub/dirge LFG </STRONG></FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>but I see it every now and then now days and I think to myself, I'd rather have a wizard join us.</FONT></P> <P>I'm not bashing bards... I think in theory they are the best group support in the game, but in practice... I just dont see the results.</P> <P>I hate to say it but I would strongly prefer an illusionist/coercer to a bard today.  Please do not jump on me for saying ANY of this, I am only making a small point:</P> <P>SOME of us non-bards dont have the same love for you we used to...  and come to think of it, I don't know why.<BR><BR><BR><BR> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P>

[Tanla]

It would be nice if Troubs got a single response of any kind from the devs... Even if it's a 'cry more n00b' I mean hell at least they would be acknowledging our existence.

[Sir Blig]

<P>Yet another thanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> nice to see others voice there support,</P> <P>Yea we could definitely do with some help, we really don't bring a lot to groups now days to make it worth it unless the group layout favors our abilities. I have spent way to many hrs in the last months with LFG up and not even getting a nibble.</P> <P>And as for ramming grouping down everyone's throats, please spare me, we don't have the goods to duo or even trio properly and about the only place we can pull out weight is in a full group with the right classes, otherwise yup even with the right classes as mentioned adding another dps would prob do just as well if not better.</P> <P>One things the Troub section of the board is it is good for is getting good meditation time as Devs and even Mods don't disturb us</P> <P>My money is still on not hearing a peep and our mediation continuing to be undisturbed.</P>

[Jooneau]

Maybe if the developers actually tried playing a bard (gasp) instead of using Excel spreadsheets to design the class...

[Mulilla]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jooneau wrote:<BR>Maybe if the developers actually tried playing a bard (gasp) instead of using Excel spreadsheets to design the class...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Asking too much... wish there were a single dev post in troub forum...

[J]

<DIV>Devs only post in friendly forums... like bruiser carebears or lore channels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yes, I've given up on being patient or nice. I WAS PATIENT WITH THESE FORUMS AND PEOPLE FOR OVER A YEAR.</DIV>

[Glamourpuss]

<P>Thanks Tera :smileyvery-happy:  It's great to see someone stepping up to bat for us.  Lord know the devs aren't.  To not notice, hear or see us is such an ingrained part of their culture that they are apparently completely ignorant of the huge collateral damage we are taking from nerfs made in an effort to fix other classes.</P> <P>But perhaps there is some malice there?  After all they stealth nerfed our class description to being just a buffbot.</P> <P>SAVE FERRIS TROUBLER!</P> <P>----------------------</P> <P>Sashae Chante - 57(almost 58!) Troub of LDL</P>

[J]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oneira wrote:<BR>We're going to have to wait and see what actually comes out of Test, but if the current changes for become part of LU24 and Troubador charm is reduced to a shell of its former self, then there will in all likelihood be a mass deleting and shelving of Troubadors and the class will be effectively dead.<BR><BR>I know I'll shelve mine.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I just read this post again... and I have to say. Oneira... <FONT color=#ff0000>its not about what actually comes out of test. It's the fact that they considered such horrible changes in the first place. </FONT></P> <P>Keep in mind that this is a company that <STRONG>took the time to actually write those test notes</STRONG>. That this is a company that actually dreamed up such a horrible nerf to our class. This is a company that <STRONG>spent time and money actually writing the code that's currently on test that has the described nerfs.</STRONG> </P> <P>Regardless of what comes off of test-- this is a company that didn't have the heart to actually care about the class. They think its fine to tweak around with our core abilities whenever they please and no matter how much it hurts us, bothers us, makes us ineffective or useless it won't matter to them. </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Even if this doesn't go live, how am I supposed to believe that they won't do something worse in another two months?</FONT> They've killed any hope or faith I had in them to get anything right, and I've been holding out hope for over a year on the weaponsmith forums. I have been hoping, and posting, and praying that they would listen and do something right. </P> <P>They will not. </P><p>Message Edited by JBW on <span class=date_text>05-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:21 AM</span>

[Calman]

Thanks for support. I stopped playing my main at level 61 just not the class i started as. Bards are good in groups, as buffers. but really they are one of the boring classes to play now and about to get even more boring. SOE  have sucked all the fun from troubadour class IMO. Games are really ment to be FUN. I mean SOE even stealth nerfed the character discription for bards. this must say they changed the basic role of the class. Not  a nice thing to happen after you have invested a hell of a lot of time and plat in a character. <div></div>

[nirm]

Thanks for the support.  If these changes go through, I will be shelfing my Troub and starting a new toon... So what are the devs playing these days?  Atleast I know that class will not be nerfed.

[Fildarum]

<DIV>my first toon on the day of release was a troub...i had grande delusions of enjoying this class, until i realized how unfinished it was.  so i shelved the game for a while, came back, rolled another troub.  it was actually fun to play, although it was pretty much just as unfinished (lack of spell effects, even fake useless instruments to carry around).  sure i wasn't a power house but enjoyed loggin in and playing him up to 31...then LU23 came and i couldn't beat many vvv solo mobs 2 levels below me (splitpaw..real fun...) i rolled this class for the CC aspect and the buffs, but if they nerf them as planned I'll be on the shelf yet again...as will my other toons.</DIV> <DIV>Nice job on this SOE...what can we expect from a company that made SWG what it is today (congrats on that)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[JadzeaDax]

<P>I have to laugh at this post because I completley agree, though my mains are a ranger and a conjuror, which  are arguably a couple of the most powerful classes out there,  I do have 2 dirges on 2 different servers. And when I log in and try to play either of them I want to cry</P> <P>I created them mainly for RP purposes.  I would love to play them more, but.... they stink and die way to much.</P> <P>Help the Bards devs!</P>

[Lindar Phamoncry]

<P>Definitley a lack of sparkly feelings comin from the devs lately... as a dirge I am pretty much helpfull when we have a poor tank. </P> <P>oh yeah and hopefuly they decide to actually put T7 Bria's(power song) and Discante(debuff) drops into the game... since you've come up with the brilliant idea of introducing spongy loams into the game (been harvesting pretty consistently for 2 weeks no luck) it would sure be nice to be able to upgrade these past App2 since these are what groups look for</P>

[Rijacki]

<div><blockquote><hr>JadzeaDax wrote:<div></div> <p>I have to laugh at this post because I completley agree, though my mains are a ranger and a conjuror, which  are arguably a couple of the most powerful classes out there,  I do have 2 dirges on 2 different servers. And when I log in and try to play either of them I want to cry</p> <p>I created them mainly for RP purposes.  I would love to play them more, but.... they stink and die way to much.</p> <p>Help the Bards devs!</p><hr></blockquote>Conversely, my first character was a wizard (and she's still one of my mains) and I have a ranger and paladin as well.  Pre-"proc nerf", I wasn't really that plussed on playing my ranger, he's not all that much fun except when I play with my boyfriend and his character of a near level.  I played my paladin with my boyfriend's paladin, but when my boyfriend went on hiatus, it was boring, pre-LU#13.  After LU#13, while my boyfriend was still gone, I started playing my wizard a lot and enjoyed her much... until..I started a dirge on Guk a few months ago.. and it's probably my favourite class (followed closely by the wizard).  I solo a lot (at least 75-80% of the time), group when I have time, and have been on a few raids now.  I -love- the dirge.  Then again, dying because I over extended myself and took on more than I should have never bothered me.  I jsut brush off and try again.. or wait.. or do something else.  If I find I am dying a lot due to stupid things I'm doing, then I take a break.  The upcoming changes... Cheap Shot will hurt, but I'll deal with it.  The change to Lanet's.. depends on how the daze works in use.  Fear and the bow art... both of those are soooo rarely used I don't think I'll even notice they're changed at all.</div>

[Dystopya]

Im glad to see these posts continuing despite all the people saying were just whining.We need some dev response here. Why are you guys silent about a series of changes that are obviously making your bard playerbase very unhappy? Can you shed some light on whats in the works for us since we seem to have been stripped dry of anything interesting?<div></div>

[Bootstwadd]

<P>Rolled a Troub before I saw the notes because I wanted to play a more melee based class with some CC.  Guess that idea's out the window with these changes.  Seems VERY harsh, can't say I've ever seen a 98% nerf to any class or spell before.</P> <P>That's essentially like returning the SK's lieftaps to worse than pre LU13...in other words...a why bother spell.</P> <P>I think some kinda answer or acknowledgement is absolutely necessary...or someone may hafta make a post like:  "LU 24 Bards, working as intended?"</P> <P>Good Luck with your plight, if these changes go live, I'm pretty sure I won't be playing that Troub.</P>

[Fildarum]

<DIV>apparantly they are too busy responding to posts about whether or not fae will fly...3 x...cuz thats important...to someone...somewhere...</DIV>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Boombahyay wrote:<BR> <P>Rolled a Troub before I saw the notes because I wanted to play a more melee based class with some CC.  Guess that idea's out the window with these changes.  Seems VERY harsh, can't say I've ever seen a 98% nerf to any class or spell before.</P> <P>That's essentially like returning the SK's lieftaps to worse than pre LU13...in other words...a why bother spell.</P> <P>I think some kinda answer or acknowledgement is absolutely necessary...or someone may hafta make a post like:  "LU 24 Bards, working as intended?"</P> <P>Good Luck with your plight, if these changes go live, I'm pretty sure I won't be playing that Troub.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thanks Boombahyay <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  It's a shame too... if these changes don't go live, I'd suggest for sure trying a troub.  Though maybe if you don't experience them as they currently are, you won't notice the changes horribly - at least until the higher levels - depending on whether you duo with a healer or group with full tank/healer/dps group

[Bootstwadd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jaimster wrote:<BR> <BR>Thanks Boombahyay <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  It's a shame too... if these changes don't go live, I'd suggest for sure trying a troub.  Though maybe if you don't experience them as they currently are, you won't notice the changes horribly - at least until the higher levels - depending on whether you duo with a healer or group with full tank/healer/dps group<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Actually, I solo...a glutton for punishment I am, but I saw that Charm as being a very key element to a Troub's ability to solo (and kinda fun).  The fact that it has now been removed from the class description is very troubling....huh, troubling...yup, that spells the solo life of a Troubadour.

[Blakeavon]

<P>yeppers nice to see we have support from other classes, funny enough that is why the DEVS are rapidly losing respect lately ... they arent part of the community anymore, just the big bullys to busy feeling uneffective. They really need to remember who pays the bills and why a DEV team exists for... true they own the property but without a care and respect for their fan base, why bother? </P> <P>just look at the amount of decent posts in the DEV tracker lately, heaps of posts in Lore and what not but with the amount of concerning troub threads ...not a scrap from any of them. and why? even common respect would dictate that they explain why why a 8sec charm was even thought of... because of all the nerfs this one goes beyond reason.</P> <P>For the first year of EQ2 the forums were great fun, you learnt stuff... you raised a concern and a DEV like a good mate from around the corner would come in give advice or at least answer. it just seems to me there is no community relations anymore... they never appear even to give a "working as intented" they just arent around.</P> <P> </P> <P>i still love my troub</P> <P>but since LU13 i have lost:</P> <P> </P> <P>mana drain</P> <P>DPS</P> <P>and now charm </P> <P> </P> <P>all these threads arent about you DVS changing things but nerfing things that arent powerful to begin with... this search for gaming balance will be your undoing </P> <P>what use is balance when the cost of it (not that its possible to get) is to lose even more players... i mean AB feels like a graveyard lately!!</P> <P> </P>

[Meattray]

i support any boosts to the bard classesplease make them more fun to playTaylon 70 FurySorann 63 GuardNukette 70 Warlock<div></div>

[Bassist]

<div><blockquote><hr>Meattray wrote:i support any boosts to the bard classesplease make them more fun to playTaylon 70 FurySorann 63 GuardNukette 70 Warlock<div></div><hr></blockquote>We appreciate the thought <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Funny thing is we just want to stay as we are at this point <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Lordviperscorpian]

They better give us instruments or the ability to use poisons after this patch.  Bards deserve something other than pointless nerfs.  Were suposed to be able to do and use just about anything...were bards...jack of all trades...master of none...right?  Except...:1. Not able to use poisons.  So much for jack of all trades.2.  Not all songs can be cast on the run.  WHY?! Hell in EQ1 even items bards had could be cast on the run.  Being able to cast songs/spells on the run is one of the defining attributes to a bard.  3. NO INSTRUMENTS.  No excuse for this one but pure lazyness.  [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] makes a bard...without instruments. Kind of defeats the entire purpose.  4.  To many buffs that use concentration.  Tombs....pr/dr....hate song....and others need to have there concentration cost reconsidered if your not going to look at problems 1, 2, and 3.  If you acually do decide to fix 1, 2, and 3 i wont care if they cost 2 points.  5. Stances....should i even ask?<div></div>

[Mulilla]

<P>I really would like to know if someone REALLY thinks that <STRIKE>troubs</STRIKE> bards are overpowered atm (before LU24)</P> <P>Or are the DEVs the only ones that think so?</P> <P> </P> <P>Edit: to add our friendly dirges <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by Mulillla on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:57 PM</span>

[Cuz]

God knows what the Devs think of bards. They haven't posted on any of the troub concerns, ever. I think they have for 1 bard issue over in the dirge forum. I'm thinking it's an urban myth.

[Mulilla]

<P>A few months ago, Trabbart post a piece of art in the feedback forum.  I almost fell of my chair laughing.  But i just remembered it and it scares me how prophetic it was:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=34556" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=34556</A></P> <P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pls take a look just the other day i saw a troubadour solo a ^ mob. He used a mezz spell called lullaby and was able to effectively solo the mob to death. It made me sick to my stomach to see a class that obviously isnt supposed to solo do this.<BR> <BR>As far as grouping goes you are on the right track with troubadors but some spells still seem usefull since they appear as icons when i am grouped with a troubador. Your constant carving away seems to be getting results though.<BR>A few weekends ago  i was grouped with a troubador and one wizard and they were smiling (never a good sign) about the proc song (aria) and how it helped the dps. Also during that days session the troubador was asking us to look at his amazing reflection song buff. Somewhere during that day we noticed the song proc of some AOE and all of us agreed that this was too overpowered. Therefore i am happy to see that you have made sure that these songs are significantly reduced in power. The swans song line seems to have too much text in the description. This should be reduced. <BR> <BR>All in all i really think you are doing a good job and i like to compare it to the artistry of Michaelangelo who also was able to carve away and away until underneath it all a fragile little statuette appeared. Keep up the good work I AM your biggest fan.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Emerix]

<DIV>That person was obviously a dumb*censored* . Anyway , does anyone know how much they increased the damage of Steal Essence?</DIV>

[Lordviperscorpian]

Maybe the developers bought crack from that guy and he told them his story.  Thats the only way i can think they would ever come up with such nerfs.  That guy totally called the nerfs lol.  <div></div>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Emerix wrote:<BR> <DIV>That person was obviously a dumb*censored* . Anyway , does anyone know how much they increased the damage of Steal Essence?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That person was probably a troubador... it was a brilliant piece of sarcasm.  Not a clue, though I"m betting it's not by the 90-something % our charm was knocked down by ;p