Anyone played a ranger on tet with LU 24 changes? How do they affect soloing

[Yon]

<DIV>As you can see on the ranger forums a lot of poeple are nervous about the changes because in order to solo effectively we either need to do most of the damage before the most gets to us or use PBS (point blank shot) cheap shot, and the root on the lounging blade line to root/stun the mob then try to get 1 or two range attacks off because or mele skills are pretty bad.  Anyway anyone played a ranger on test and tried getting ranged attacks off after the changed stun/roots?  What are you able to pull off after:</DIV> <DIV>Cheap shot:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Point Blank Shot:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lunging Blade line:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also whats the difference in thorny trap?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[modnar]

<DIV>BG said that the test updates posted there are not accurate and they are very out of date so i think that update didn't even happen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Was out of date cause they all went to E3 and they haven't updated it.</DIV>

[kartikeya]

<P>I too, would very much like to know how badly the solo ranger has been hit, especially since we don't know if the notes listed are accurate in that regard or not. </P> <P>I'm baffled by these changes. I can't speak for other classes, but the abilities listed in those notes as being changed are already extremely underpowered. They just gave us an extra root because they realized how hard it is to solo when you do all your damage from range and have very little means to keep the mob at range so that you can do that damage. Why are they taking away what pitiful means we have to do so when they had to give us an EXTRA ability to do this in the first place?</P> <P>Some specifics. Point Blank Shot is woefully inadequate, thanks to the recent change in duration (for those not following, they changed the duration to be based on the level of this AA...which basically meant they lowered the duration unless you had maxxed it out). I am lucky to get a single shot off with this, at rank four, and only if I use my fastest casting ranged CA. A further lowering will make this ability little more than an interrupt, which is fairly useless.The damage is already pitiful--why in the world is it being lowered even further? We're talking 400 damage max, or thereabouts, at rank 4. At level 66.</P> <P>Our trap hasn't been working properly since the infamous LU #20. It disappears entirely, it refuses to spring, it's range has been reduced. This needs more nerfing why? It's still broken guys. We can't use it in combat, the cast time is hugely prohibitive, and the refresh is something like three minutes.</P> <P>Not specifically stated, but with the across the board nerf on roots, is our new root getting cut too? It's currently 4 seconds. That's just enough time to get off two shots, IF they are fast casting CA's and IF you don't have any lag, and IF you fire that root while already backing away. This was desperately needed for soloing, I use it constantly now. The refresh timer is too long to keep a mob constantly rooted, so there's no danger there. I don't use it in groups. The damage is, like all of our melee abilities, very subpar. I use it for the root, and that's all.</P> <P>Surveil. This has nothing to do with stunning or rooting. It's a weird change to be tossed into that mess. I also don't understand why it was done. Surveil is invaluable to rangers, because it's one of two activatable de-aggro abilities, and the ONLY ONE we can use at range, which is where we are most of the time. This needs to be at least the max range of our bows. If it still is, then fine, I have no problem.</P> <P>Cheap Shot. This is nearly as hard to swallow as yet another PBS nerf. What is overpowering about this? Rangers NEVER use this in a group, and I can't imagine other scouts do either. It's worthless on heroics. It's almost worthless on single arrow up solo mobs. It only lasts six seconds on mobs with NO arrows or DOWN arrows. This is enough time to swing around behind the mob and get off a few positional attacks, or perhaps an arrow shot or two. The loss of two seconds won't make this useless, but it's still leaves a very sour taste in the mouth. This ability is not overpowered, it is not used in groups (and thus, does not effect enchanters in any way, shape, or form) it cannot be used in conjunction with our other abilities to lock mobs down, and it's bread and butter in the solo game.</P> <P>With the exception of surveil, all of these changes are targetted solely at our solo abilities. A thing which the devs JUST SPENT TIME FIXING in order to allow us to solo. It's /still/ difficult to solo anything nastier than a no-arrow blue solo mob without kiting. I thought the devs didn't like kiting. Do you realize kiting is the only way to solo heroic mobs, not these soon to be nerfed abilities? Do you want us to kite MORE? If kiting is the only way you want us to be effective in soloing, why have you made an expansion in which there is an aggro mob every two feet and absolutely no room to maneuver?</P> <P>I'm really...really quite frustrated with these changes. It seems like a huge step backwards, and very thoughtlessly done. You're even nerfing the enchanters while claiming to 'fix' them.</P>

[Kethaera]

I have a 46 Ranger on Test, and I usually duo her with a Pally, but I messed around solo for a bit tonight to get a feel for the changes. These are my preliminary findings:<ul><li>Cheap Shot is noticably reduced, but it's still doable. I was practicing against blue and white no arrows, and I had just enough to whip around, use my Pouncing Attack and Crippling Blade. I was also able to Cheap Shot, and pull off two ranged CAs if they're on fast timers. You gotta be quick, but it's doable. Note: I have a pretty good computer, fast internet, and I play on Test where there's not a lot of lag. Any lag at all would make this extremely frustrating. I also have not tried against up arrows of any con yet. </li></ul><ul><li>Also, the line that includes the root, mine's called Survival of the Fittest, still roots, but I was only able to get off one CA. With a bit of practice, I might could pull off two very quick ones. Again, this is no arrow blues and whites.</li></ul>I don't have the line with Point Blank Shot, so I can't tell you anything about that. This is just my observations after a quick half-hour of messing with it, and I'm only 46, so take this all with a grain of salt. <div></div>

[kartikeya]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> burgesaj wrote:<BR>I have a 46 Ranger on Test, and I usually duo her with a Pally, but I messed around solo for a bit tonight to get a feel for the changes. These are my preliminary findings:<BR><BR> <UL> <LI>Cheap Shot is noticably reduced, but it's still doable. I was practicing against blue and white no arrows, and I had just enough to whip around, use my Pouncing Attack and Crippling Blade. I was also able to Cheap Shot, and pull off two ranged CAs if they're on fast timers. You gotta be quick, but it's doable. Note: I have a pretty good computer, fast internet, and I play on Test where there's not a lot of lag. Any lag at all would make this extremely frustrating. I also have not tried against up arrows of any con yet. <BR></LI></UL> <UL> <LI>Also, the line that includes the root, mine's called Survival of the Fittest, still roots, but I was only able to get off one CA. With a bit of practice, I might could pull off two very quick ones. Again, this is no arrow blues and whites.</LI></UL>I don't have the line with Point Blank Shot, so I can't tell you anything about that. This is just my observations after a quick half-hour of messing with it, and I'm only 46, so take this all with a grain of salt. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ugh. I was hoping for sanity, that this was one of the changes that hadn't actually made it to Test, per Blackguard's post. Thanks for the info, mate.</P> <P>SOE, I've always tried to avoid flaming the devs, even when the LU #20 changes were on Test, even when, in spite of all warnings, they were pushed to live (and were too freaking much, as every ranger and their pet bird were telling you). I was very encouraged by the marginal but swift fixes put into place, and very grateful for the new very short root added to one of our melee skills. I even avoided outright flaming when, at the same time you 'fixed' us, you nerfed Point Blank Shot into near (if not complete) uselessness and worded it like a bonus.</P> <P>But this? How can ANY of you think this is a good idea? Didn't you acknowledge, only a few updates ago, that rangers did most of their damage from range, and thus needed a way to get into range when soloing? Why are you nerfing absolutely EVERY SINGLE SKILL we use to do this? Even with things as they are now, I'm still forced into melee range quite a bit, and even wearing full cobalt, in offensive OR defensive stance, I take quite a pounding from any solo mob with a single ^, and many with no arrows at all. I have soloed nearly my entire career, I would like to think I know how to do it.</P> <P>I was under the impression that you didn't LIKE kiting. Why are you continuously making it so that kiting is the only way we can solo? (and in KoS, the places where there is enough room to kite without running into other aggro mobs or falling off an island are precious, precious few to non-existent), and thus the reason why our ranged combat abilities are unable to be used on the run, apart from one CA on a three minute timer and auto-attack. You took away the only other one we could use when you nerfed us to hell and back with LU #20. And now, with LU #24, the methods we have to solo without actually having to run around in a bunch of circles like a ninny are being chopped to pieces. Please, please make up your mind.</P> <P>I know some people are going to respond saying it's just on Test, that I should wait for Live before complaining. I'm sorry, these changes are ridiculous. They should not even BE on Test. They should never have been seriously considered at all. And I've seen SOE's track record on pushing big changes that have not been thoroughly tested to Live--it's not a pretty thing, and I'm tired of all the see-sawing on what they want my class to do. Anyone who has played with these abilities knows that if anything, they are UNDERPOWERED, one of them has been BROKEN for three live updates, we do not use them in groups at all, and the thought of making them even less effective is completely ABSURD.</P>

[Arhan]

<P><STRONG>There is no reason to change Surveil at all.  It has nothing to do with <U>Control</U>. </STRONG>  Surveil doesn't negatively effect game play at all and has nothing to do with balancing.  I really would like a Developers response in why there changing range on Surveil??  I can see the others though it sucks.  But WHY SURVEIL?</P><p>Message Edited by Arhan on <span class=date_text>05-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:10 AM</span>

[TaleraRis]

Amen, kar. I couldn't have said it better myself. I don't know if these abilities are being adjusted in response to what rangers in full fabled with all masters can do, ie taking out heroics or handling group instances by themselves. But the actual solo rangers of this game, those of us who rely only on what we can get ourselves without raiding and usually without grouping, are not out there killing 3 up heroics. We're having a heck of a time with just the single arrow ups. So if this is being based yet again on what the top can do, they need to readjust their thinking and look at just who is going to bear the brunt of the effects. <div></div>

[Guy De Alsace]

I dont understand why after the much needed and well done rebalancing act Rangers went through, we are getting this nerf? Down we go again and with little or no logic behind the change. Cheap Shot is only useful as an interrupt on any up-arrow mob (ie grouped encounters for the most part). We still cant get position with a 2 sec stun unless you're maybe of the top 1% of all Rangers and have the speed and reactions of a cat. 4 secs? Well, I dunno but its going to be really really tough to get them in. We were given a helping hand at soloing in the last update, with this one we get the rug pulled under us! I dont know, it just makes no sense at all...I've really stopped trying to fathom half the stuff they do here. Thorny Trap I can understand since it can affect heroics (and group play). Thats fair enough but Cheap Shot? A pure solo ability that has no effect on group play... /boggle <div></div>

[Sulas]

<div><blockquote><hr>burgesaj wrote:I have a 46 Ranger on Test, and I usually duo her with a Pally, but I messed around solo for a bit tonight to get a feel for the changes. These are my preliminary findings:<ul><li>Cheap Shot is noticably reduced, but it's still doable. I was practicing against blue and white no arrows, and I had just enough to whip around, use my Pouncing Attack and Crippling Blade. I was also able to Cheap Shot, and pull off two ranged CAs if they're on fast timers. You gotta be quick, but it's doable. Note: I have a pretty good computer, fast internet, and I play on Test where there's not a lot of lag. Any lag at all would make this extremely frustrating. I also have not tried against up arrows of any con yet. </li></ul><ul><li>Also, the line that includes the root, mine's called Survival of the Fittest, still roots, but I was only able to get off one CA. With a bit of practice, I might could pull off two very quick ones. Again, this is no arrow blues and whites.</li></ul>I don't have the line with Point Blank Shot, so I can't tell you anything about that. This is just my observations after a quick half-hour of messing with it, and I'm only 46, so take this all with a grain of salt. <div></div><hr></blockquote>The changes to PBS and Cheap Shot/root sound inane.  It sure sounds to me that if I get any lag (and I get lag fairly often) I'm going to be screwed.  As for Surveil... I boggle.; It's not broken.I cannot fathom why the change to Cheap Shot is being contemplated since it will only screw the soloers and PBS sounds laughable as it is.  I'm really starting to lose my patience with the Devs.</div>

[Guy De Alsace]

They may not go live, hopefully when the dev responsible actually reads what "cheap shot" does the change will be removed. As it stands it seems he simply did a search for "root/stun etc" on some database and applied an across the board nerf to all of them without noticing what the skill actually does. The notes are also out of date I just read so these things arent set in stone. <div></div>

[DreV]

I mean who sits down and decides these changes? I hope this is not in an effort to improve pvp servers related to pvping and the normal servers feel the rath>>>

[kartikeya]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Guy De Alsace wrote:<BR>They may not go live, hopefully when the dev responsible actually reads what "cheap shot" does the change will be removed. As it stands it seems he simply did a search for "root/stun etc" on some database and applied an across the board nerf to all of them without noticing what the skill actually does. <BR><BR>The notes are also out of date I just read so these things arent set in stone. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I hope so, Guy, I really, really do. In fact, I hope that's exactly what was done, and why such crazy amounts of nerfing seem to be showing up for skills that do not need a nerf, and in fact, could use a boost if anything. I hope they just asked some guy to find all the applicable CAs/Spells and put them down. I hope they do not intend to put such stupid (yes, I'm sorry, very stupid) changes through.</P> <P>But this is the same thing folks said for the proc nerf, pardon 'fix', in LU #20 that so crippled rangers, when there was such an outcry to the changes on Test. Wait and See. Not everything makes it to Live. You guys shouldn't be upset until it actually goes through. </P> <P>They were on Test for about six days or so, and then they went Live, with NO consideration for what that would actually do to the class, when just about EVERY single ranger was telling them how and why this was a bad idea, where our damage came from, what they could do instead...etc. Rangers were hardly the first to be crippled like this. I'm afraid my confidence in massive sweeping changes being tested thoroughly before being pushed onto the Live servers is very, very thin indeed.</P> <P>And while the notes are out of date, it appears at least some of these ranger changes ARE on Test now, as documented.</P>

[KongstadPS]

<P>I'm curious to see if they are actually fixing Thorny Trap ( cause for some people it doesnt work AT ALL - See my thread in the ranger forum )</P> <P>If they don't i find it comical that they nerf a skill that doesnt work.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>