What is the dev's vision for the Bruiser?

[Zigmun]

<DIV>Why are Monk's getting a mezz????</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could understand the dev's making this change if monks were a have not class, but I thought monks were a very strong class?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Monks are a better grouping and raiding class than Bruisers - period. I doubt if anyone can or would even try to argue that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In fact a Bruisers role in a raid is to be handed a feather and FD if there is a wipe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am assuming with the poison mitigation buff Bruisers were mean't to tank poison epics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But many people would still argue that they would take a Monks avoidance over mitigation any day of the week and I happen to agree.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I won't even discuss how hard it is for Bruisers to get into high lvl raiding guilds. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So we have Monk's who have a definate role in raids and groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Where does this leave the Bruiser? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DPS - which is fine - I think most Bruisers can handle that knowing that they are a strong solo class. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But.... The Bruiser is losing it's ability to solo, Bruiser mezz timer and fear timer put on same, and knock downs and stuns reduced from 4 sec to 2.5.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While Monk's are given a new ability ?????????? to mezz ????????? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What is the Dev's vision for the Bruiser?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is there one? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can you not see the disparity? Would it not make more sense to give Bruisers more group and raid utility? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gharik]

That used to be the one skill I thought set the Bruiser apart from monks. Monks are better in groups and raids. Monks can stealth for a few minutes. Bruisers can.... um.... envy monks. <div></div>

[masakre]

<DIV>I really hope Sony pulls this crap before implementation. Every bruiser will be a monk in a day or two with this lack of thought. Let's see..... Monks have group fd, better solo fd, invis, tsunami, and all the bruiser has is dps and a stun. Now Sony is going to nerf the bruiser stun, and give one to the monk? Sony, please actually put some thought into this. You are making bruiser's useless. I play a bruiser and a monk post 50 and cannot even start to understand what you were thinking.</DIV>

[PIexor]

<DIV>Our bruiser does around 1k dps in raids, I think that is enough reason to have you guys, FD , dps group buffs and setting of traps is juts a bonus for a raid guild <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Draq]

<div><blockquote><hr>PIexor wrote:<div>Our bruiser does around 1k dps in raids, I think that is enough reason to have you guys, FD , dps group buffs and setting of traps is juts a bonus for a raid guild <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>And you think a Monk with equal equipment can't do 1k dps?</div>

[Forsaken Falc]

<DIV>Q) What is the dev's vision for the Bruiser? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A) Demi-God! (Tankige,DPS!,Heal's,FD,(think they get stealth too),Taunt,Advoide like an Mofo,BS Mitt for an leather user,CHEAPIST TANK CLASS TO PLAY.)</DIV>

[lillin]

I play a monk and rarely do i use my invis, i fd flop my way around its more dependible.

[Code2501]

<P>Um, I have not played a bruiser so I don't really know what you guys get, maybe you can enlighten the rest of us... (someone said traps, I thought that was rangers) But I have got a 70 monk, so let me enlighten you on a few points.</P> <P>Invis - when soe last made changes to invis/stealth they made about 40% of the mob population (higher if you just count heroics) see through invis... as was mentioned up there ^^ FD is much more reliable.</P> <P>Tsunami- was a great ability... WAS a great ability... it only protects from auto-attacks, combat arts just go straight through it, and you now need a master 1 to get the full duration.</P> <P>Aviodance- you mentioned this was what made us 'Raid-desireable', um last i checked both of the brawler classes were avoidance tanks, and it is widely acknowledged that avoidance is [Removed for Content] vs epics. I really can't understand what point your trying to make here.</P> <P>Group FD- Yep, nice ability, gives me 1 thing to do on a raid aside from mediocre dps, but then it is only usefull in a sure-wipe situation if all the group are out of reset range and only every 15 minutes. In a group situation its kind of more like an emergency evac without the travel perks and a 15% faliure rate.</P> <P> </P> <P>In your complaint about bruisers weakened solo ability due to the CC changes you failed to acknowledge that monks also rely heavily on CC abilities to solo, namely stunn and stiffle, of my monks abilities 2 of my stunns are goind to be hlaved in duration, the tird im not sure on cause its not a KB stunn and the notes aren't clear on how there affected.</P> <P>Personaly, I don't want a mez ability for my monk, I just want to be able to solo even con encounters, or group tank heroics without dieing on a consistant basis due to having limited ability to reduce incoming damage. I have no idea if these CC changes will make soloing or tanking harder, but if they make it less fun then I won't be happy. </P> <P>Lastly, being upset about a nerf is fine, but blatanly misrepresenting the facts by sugesting a "disparity" exists without impartialy showing both sides of the story is not going to get you much respect from a mature forum community. As for class envy, if your so sure monks are "better" than bruisers wait for LU24 and betray freeport, then you too can play the "best" Brawler class.</P><p>Message Edited by Code2501 on <span class=date_text>05-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:01 PM</span>

[Pouncer74]

Monks and Bruisers do identical dps rounded out over all raid encounters.  I've seen this over raids between me and the monks in guild with same equipment over the past year.  If you have parses that prove that bruisers do more dps over many different encounters feel free to post em

[digitalblasphemy]

You know what, boo freaking hoo.  Guardians have one stun to their name and that's getting nerfed too.  I wouldn't mind so much if I had a handful of stun spells, but I got one lousy spell that requires a shield to be used and it's getting chopped from 4.0sec to 2.5sec.  You guys make it sound like Bruisers are a [Removed for Content] class or something.  I guess no more soloing yellow con heroic named from now on eh.<div></div>

[Code2501]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> digitalblasphemy wrote:<BR>You know what, boo freaking hoo.  Guardians have one stun to their name and that's getting nerfed too.  I wouldn't mind so much if I had a handful of stun spells, but I got one lousy spell that requires a shield to be used and it's getting chopped from 4.0sec to 2.5sec.  You guys make it sound like Bruisers are a [Removed for Content] class or something.  I guess no more soloing yellow con heroic named from now on eh.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>*throws stick*</P> <P>Go fetch digi, let us adults talk in peace</P>

[Code2501]

<DIV>Duplicate post</DIV><p>Message Edited by Code2501 on <span class=date_text>05-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:25 PM</span>

[Code2501]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pouncer74 wrote:<BR> Monks and Bruisers do identical dps rounded out over all raid encounters.  I've seen this over raids between me and the monks in guild with same equipment over the past year.  If you have parses that prove that bruisers do more dps over many different encounters feel free to post em<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes, in raids thats been my experience too, if you setup your groups properly that is pretty much the case. You just need to be aware, monks need dps buffs, brawlers need haste buffs (haste buffs seemingly easier to come by), and then you can build groups so both monks and bruisers achieve the best dps they can. Thats why I don't understand the bruiser v monk angst, there both already quite simmilar, and both pretty much only medicore dps and a FD-rez in a raid environment. But as I said, I've not played a bruiser in a seroius capacity so i can't really (nor do I care to) make a ability by ability comparison, I just go by what I see played out in game. And what I see in game is that Brawlers in general would have a hard time tanking/soloing with less "CC" abilities than we currently have because we are far more likely to be 2-3 shot killed if we hit an unlucky streak of avoidance rolls (we tank on luck and timing rather than durability).</P>

[masakre]

<DIV>obviousely some of you don't get it. Monks are already better in most respects over a bruiser. What I stated is that they are nerfing bruisers and giving another perk to a monk, that only adds to the list of things they have over the bruiser. If you don't play the class (guardian, etc.) don't bother replying. You have no idea what I'm talking about, nor reason to comment.</DIV>

[Elephant]

This is a nice post, I agree completely... no clue why they are doing this... :smileysad:

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> masakre wrote:<BR> <DIV>obviousely some of you don't get it. Monks are already better in most respects over a bruiser. What I stated is that they are nerfing bruisers and giving another perk to a monk, that only adds to the list of things they have over the bruiser. If you don't play the class (guardian, etc.) don't bother replying. You have no idea what I'm talking about, nor reason to comment.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Are you talking about Monks in general, or monks that are taking the str line? Because to me, it seems like the str is often the issue that bruisers have vs Monks, and the issue that a lot of DPS classes have against brawlers.

[masakre]

<DIV>I play both a bruiser and a monk. My bruiser is currently higher level than my monk. As I leveled both toons rather fast and fairly close to the same time frame, I have found that the monk has many advantages over the bruiser. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regardless of whether some people use invis or not as a monk, it is an advantage over the bruiser. Maybe not in the higher end KoS stuff, but in every other zone, monk invis is awesome. You can invis and run to where ever you want. If you get agro along the way, you can feign, regen, rinse and repeat. The bruiser has no equivilent skill. They cannot invis at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The monk can group fd. The bruiser has no equivilent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Monks get a 92% fd at 56. Bruisers don't get an upgrade post 44 i believe. The level 56 monk adept 1 has a better chance of success over the adept 3 from level 44 the bruiser has.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The monk can heal anyone they are targeting, the bruiser can heal themselves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The monk has a stifle line of spells and the bruiser does not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The bruiser had a stun and a fear line of spells which the monk did not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now the monk is getting a fear. Sony is nerfing the stun the bruiser has so that the bruiser cannot stun and fear, they can only do one at a time. I see no reason why anyone would play a bruiser after this patch, considering the monk now has everything the bruiser does, and far more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am not your typical 9 year old whining about nothing. I am just pointing out that Sony is short living the bruiser class by beefing up the monk while nerfing the bruiser. Regardless of what was posted regarding cc from each class and this will balance out the cc difference's between these two classses, they have just made the bruiser useless in comparison to the monk. Giving a feather to an fd class in raid situations, as posted above, is better in the hands of a monk as well.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by masakre on <SPAN class=date_text>05-15-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:18 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by masakre on <span class=date_text>05-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:19 PM</span>

[Cuz]

<P>My monk never uses his invise, I use totems. The mana drain is too much of nuissance, and I like supporting crafters <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Also is the lvl 70 Last Breath still in for bruisers?</P><p>Message Edited by Jenoy on <span class=date_text>05-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:34 PM</span>

[DarkerApprenti]

<div>We're not getting mezz...it's the fear.I agree with you that bruisers are getting hit by the nerf bat a bit more this update than monks but you guys have your uses and, in a lot of cases, seem to handle soloing better than the average (I mean average..not uber) monk. You have a mezz (we don't), you have a mitigation buff (and we all know how lame avoidance is vs. yellow or epic mobs), and your personal FD is just as good as a monk's. I have been in two guilds now that have only two major brawlers (1 bruiser and 1 monk) and I must say that bruisers are better in some situations.The fact is, yes SOE is clobbering you with the nerf bat. But even after this update, you'll still be able to solo as good or better than a monk. Group FD is our bread and butter. I guess my point is that monks and bruisers are very close in class and ability. To say that monks are vastly superior to bruisers is a lie. I think it boils down to Gear, AA choices, CA levels, and potions. All those being similar, the differences are not that great.<blockquote><hr>Zigmund9 wrote:<div><font color="#ffff00">Why are Monk's getting a mezz????</font></div> <div> </div> <div>I could understand the dev's making this change if monks were a have not class, but I thought monks were a very strong class?</div> <div> </div> <div>Monks are a better grouping and raiding class than Bruisers - period. I doubt if anyone can or would even try to argue that.</div> <div> </div> <div>In fact a Bruisers role in a raid is to be handed a feather and FD if there is a wipe.</div> <div> </div> <div>I am assuming with the poison mitigation buff Bruisers were mean't to tank poison epics.</div> <div> </div> <div>But many people would still argue that they would take a Monks avoidance over mitigation any day of the week and I happen to agree.</div> <div> </div> <div>I won't even discuss how hard it is for Bruisers to get into high lvl raiding guilds. </div> <div> </div> <div>So we have Monk's who have a definate role in raids and groups.</div> <div> </div> <div>Where does this leave the Bruiser? </div> <div> </div> <div>DPS - which is fine - I think most Bruisers can handle that knowing that they are a strong solo class. </div> <div> </div> <div>But.... The Bruiser is losing it's ability to solo, Bruiser mezz timer and fear timer put on same, and knock downs and stuns reduced from 4 sec to 2.5.</div> <div> </div> <div>While Monk's are given a new ability ?????????? to mezz ????????? </div> <div> </div> <div>What is the Dev's vision for the Bruiser?</div> <div> </div> <div>Is there one? </div> <div> </div> <div>Can you not see the disparity? Would it not make more sense to give Bruisers more group and raid utility? </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote></div>

[WaachBack]

<DIV>Coming from someone who plays both a 70 bruiser and  monk, I would have to say this is a great change. My bruiser always felt more powerfull then my monk and even after the change, I would still pick my bruiser over my monk. I love them both and they are very alike. This was a good change that brought both classes a little closer ability wise.</DIV>

[TrentKillcu]

<blockquote><hr>WaachBack wrote:<div>Coming from someone who plays both a 70 bruiser and  monk, I would have to say this is a great change. My bruiser always felt more powerfull then my monk and even after the change, I would still pick my bruiser over my monk. I love them both and they are very alike. This was a good change that brought both classes a little closer ability wise.</div><hr></blockquote>When you say more powerful you should claify how it feels more powerful.  Because it can solo better?  More damage?  Better stuns?  More stuns?  Higher CA damage?  Also since when is bringing classes closer together ability wise a good thing.  They are different classes for a reason, they should be DIFFERENT.  Why don't we all just have a scout/tank/mage/healer class and then everyone can have the exact same skills and abilities, sounds good to me!  not...Sorry, I'm a little testy since I'm losing 7.5 seconds worth of stuns and getting a daze that i'm not sure if i'm even going to be able to use unless i'm not tanking.  It's quite difficult sometimes to get behind a mob with a 2 second stun and actually have the rear/flanking positional hit and not just tell me i'm not behind or flanking for some reason.  Not sure how it's going to be with 2.5 second stuns.  Then they're giving monks one of my "class defining skills".  Give us back our stilfe you nerfed away already and I'll shut up for the time being.sigh.<div></div>Trentkc51 Bruiser Nagafen

[Cuz]

Hey this thread went from "monks are too powerful compared to bruisers" to "why should monks be as good as bruisers".

[WaachBack]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TrentKillcult wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WaachBack wrote:<BR> <DIV>Coming from someone who plays both a 70 bruiser and  monk, I would have to say this is a great change. My bruiser always felt more powerfull then my monk and even after the change, I would still pick my bruiser over my monk. I love them both and they are very alike. This was a good change that brought both classes a little closer ability wise.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>When you say more powerful you should claify how it feels more powerful.  Because it can solo better?  More damage?  Better stuns?  More stuns?  Higher CA damage?  <BR><BR>Also since when is bringing classes closer together ability wise a good thing.  They are different classes for a reason, they should be DIFFERENT.  Why don't we all just have a scout/tank/mage/healer class and then everyone can have the exact same skills and abilities, sounds good to me!  not...<BR><BR>Sorry, I'm a little testy since I'm losing 7.5 seconds worth of stuns and getting a daze that i'm not sure if i'm even going to be able to use unless i'm not tanking.  It's quite difficult sometimes to get behind a mob with a 2 second stun and actually have the rear/flanking positional hit and not just tell me i'm not behind or flanking for some reason.  Not sure how it's going to be with 2.5 second stuns.  Then they're giving monks one of my "class defining skills".  Give us back our stilfe you nerfed away already and I'll shut up for the time being.<BR><BR>sigh.<BR><BR> <BR>Trentkc<BR>51 Bruiser Nagafen<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. Imho Bruiser > Monk, but its a tough call. It also depends on your playing style.