LU24, sure it helps Enchanters but What about everyone else?!

[Evyan]

<div></div>I've Supported most of your changes so far and eventho I signed up from day one as a templar and its TOTALLY NOT WHAT I signed up for I tried to stick it thru, but what your doing to the stuns and mezzes..... is absolutely ridiculous.  so you find no other interesting flavor for them but to nerf EVERYONE at once?! seriously, do you not understand some people will not take well to this at all, in fact even I don't take well to this at all. Quite Frankly if these changes are going to make it thru, I for one will make sure word of mouth advertising gets around on what you as a company present to your players, which so far I've seen are 75% nerfs / 25% fixes  (unsatisfied customers) and by this I mean not presenting these customers with any other options then what they were given.  if your going to swing a change of such EPIC proportion, be a little more considerate of the handful of classes its applying to.<div></div>

[Gorl]

haha.. good one.. wait, you speaking seriously?  haha, even better.  don't like something, go make your own.<div></div>

[Galn]

<DIV>I agree with the OP totally. The only reason I can think they are shortening stun times for is to prevent people from chain-stunning heroics and killing things they shouldnt be able to. Well not everyone does this and those who dont are going to suffer. I've spent the last few months developing a nice set of tactics with my characters based on all their skills/spells and shortening the stuns will mean I have to relearn all my characters... AGAIN!!! That really is the biggest probolem with all the changes to games having to relearn characters and having viable characters being nerfed beyond the "fun" threshhold. I could seriously live with a few tweaks andadjustments here and there, which is what SOE SHOULD have done back with LU 13, Adjust each class in a minor way to make them more balanced instead of completely redoing thme all and making a bunch of people mad. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gorlim, I would be more than happy to do my own MMORPG if you want to front the few million in cash it will take to develop and market it. My ideas would make the game better than anything Sigil, SOE or Blizzard ever put out... PM me and I'll tell you where you can send the check :smileytongue:  Do you think we could get SOE to publish it so people could play it on Station Access?</DIV>

[enc]

<DIV>you dont get it. enchanters are also nerfed with this patch. They gain some utility versus epics ( and we're not even sure, theres a point in stifflinf an epic for 3 seconds...) but they ALSO lose utility on pretty luch every spell they got in groups and solo.</DIV>

[suffe]

gee i *WISH* they *WOULD* help enchanters! theres no [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing use for us in a raid compared to the buffs of bards.  LOOK lets actually decide a good use for each class and make them strong in it (other than stupid bards of course!) *note i have two baby bards

[Shadus]

Don't be to hard on the chanters, they're taking it hard from behind with no vasaline and no reach-around this patch too.<div></div>

[MadLordOfMilk]

Umm... you do know that when you say "75% nerfs / 25% fixes" which makes sense, right? If you had 100% <strike>buffs</strike> "fixes", numbers would spiral out of control <span>:smileytongue:</span> Live with the nerfs, it's not the end of the world.<strike></strike><div></div>

[Beghard]

<div><blockquote><hr>Shadus wrote:Don't be to hard on the chanters, they're taking it hard from behind with no vasaline and no reach-around this patch too.<div></div><hr></blockquote><span>:smileysurprised:</span></div>

[SeregWethrin]

<div><blockquote><hr>suffer6 wrote:<div></div>gee i *WISH* they *WOULD* help enchanters! theres no [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing use for us in a raid compared to the buffs of bards.  LOOK lets actually decide a good use for each class and make them strong in it (other than stupid bards of course!) *note i have two baby bards<hr></blockquote>I cant believe you had the balls to say this.  troubadors got hit by this worse than any other class in the game.  You are whining about your ability compared to troubs.  At least you have a class defining role other than abuff bot on raids.   Troubs are unwanted in groups compared to coercer or enchanter.  On raids the troubs role doesnt even require him to be at the keyboard.   Seriously i dont get how you can call the most underplayed class in the game overpowered its just pure ignorance.   There is a reason troubs are the single least played class in the game.    you have CC as a main role on raids troubs are backup at best.  Every single ability that a troub can do can be pretty much done by another class.   dirges I will admit can be very useful to a raid but a troub has nothing they bring to a raid that is important other than an increase in dps if they are placed properly in raid.    Both the dirge nd the troubador class are probably the worst off in the game at the high levels so be thankful you at least have a class defining ability with lu 24 if they dont change it the only use other than buff bot for troubs will be gone.    I know enchanters have troubles but to whine about bards is the most ignorant thing you can do as they are one of the few classes that have taken the nerfs harder than you.   At least you will retain the ability to solo a green because the charm regen tactic was one of the critical parts of troub soloing so now we are forced to endure groups that would rather have a coercer or an enchanter and no ability to solo.  Honestly dont gripe about classes you obviously dont have any idea about i do feel your pain but your complaints about being useless compared to bards are complete bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] as if you ask anyone in a major raiding guild they would always rather be without a troub or dirge than without an enchanter.</div>

[Lleinen]

<DIV>just from the title, OMG IT DOESNT HELP US, good lord, look at all the nerfs we are recieving to do MINIMAL crap to epics, not worth it!!!!!!!!<BR>gawd, stop blaming us, we're getting screwed harder than anyone else in this deal IMO so far</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR>if you dont believe me, just look at the list I gave on my <STRONG>3rd post with the screenshot near the bottom </STRONG>on this topic : <BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=27&message.id=12170&page=1" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=27&message.id=12170&page=1</A><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also to ADD to that, mez will break on HOSTILE >>ACTION<< NOT DAMAGE....please, please, please try to get it thru to my head that this patch is helping me in ANY way shape or form!!!</DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffcc00><STRONG>Control durations or reuse timers are generally lowered across all non-enchanter classes<BR></STRONG></FONT><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>Hmmm....did I miss something!?!?</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Lleinen on <span class=date_text>05-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:01 AM</span>

[Aienaa]

<P>BTW, I have looked to see how this effects Enchanter, as I have a 49 Coercer myself...  I also have a 63 Troubador (which was slammed with nerfs) and a 70 Assassin (who was mildly affected by the nerfs)....  </P> <P>I will agree with you that this "Control Change" LU is bad for everyone.....  Enchanters get thier mezes gutted...  Duration on Mez for non epic stuff was significantly reduced....  Why was that??  To give the enchanter the ability to "mez" Epics for a few seconds every couple minutes (sounds more like a stun to me)....  Sorry, but a couple second mez does absolutly nothing and really not even worth using  because you mez them for a couple second, then they are going to come over and beat you to death and there is nothing you can do about it...</P> <P>You must also understand where everyone's frustration is comming from though....  Everyone is getting nerfed in order to give the Enchanter this so-called ability to mez epics....  They are seeing thier nerfs being caused because of the Enchanter class, reguardless of the fact that the Enchanter class had absolutly nothing to do with the changes....  It is misdirected frustration....</P> <P>The main problem with these changes is that the nerf are totally uncalled for...  NONE of the skill they nerfed would even effect Epics in the first place, so the only thing they are doing is nerfing soloing and grouping....  In my honest opinion, if they wanted to give enchanters the ability to affect epics then what they should have done was removed on of the Enchanters useless spells (power drains) and replaced it with a Epic Mez, that would only effect Epics...  The normal mezes still would not effect Epics, and the new Epic Mez would not effect normal mobs....  It would still give Enchanters thier class defining role of being able to affect Epics, but would not nerf all the other classes in order to achieve this....</P> <P>Personally I think everyone is getting tired of SoE playing the Carrot / Stick game....  Sure, we'll let you have the Carrot, right after we beat you to death with this big stick....  Perfect example is the T7 rares for spells....  People wanted it changes, sure they changed it... They gave people the carrot they wanted, then turned around and beat half the games population with the big stick by putting them all using the rarest of the rares, Spongy Loam....  Now they are doing it again with Enchanter mez...  Sure we'll give you the ability to mez Epics, and they turn around and beat the entire game population with the big stick by nerfing everyone's skills....</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 70 Assassin  /  Parody - 63 Troubador  /  Nilla - 49 Coercer</P>

[Tro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aienaa wrote:<BR> <P>BTW, I have looked to see how this effects Enchanter, as I have a 49 Coercer myself...  I also have a 63 Troubador (which was slammed with nerfs) and a 70 Assassin (who was mildly affected by the nerfs)....  </P> <P>I will agree with you that this "Control Change" LU is bad for everyone.....  Enchanters get thier mezes gutted...  Duration on Mez for non epic stuff was significantly reduced....  Why was that??  <FONT color=#ff0033>To give the enchanter the ability to "mez" Epics for a few seconds every couple minutes (sounds more like a stun to me)....  Sorry, but a couple second mez does absolutly nothing and really not even worth using  because you mez them for a couple second, then they are going to come over and beat you to death and there is nothing you can do about it...</FONT></P> <P>You must also understand where everyone's frustration is comming from though....  Everyone is getting nerfed in order to give the Enchanter this so-called ability to mez epics....  They are seeing thier nerfs being caused because of the Enchanter class, reguardless of the fact that the Enchanter class had absolutly nothing to do with the changes....  It is misdirected frustration....</P> <P>The main problem with these changes is that the nerf are totally uncalled for...  NONE of the skill they nerfed would even effect Epics in the first place, so the only thing they are doing is nerfing soloing and grouping....  In my honest opinion, if they wanted to give enchanters the ability to affect epics then what they should have done was removed on of the Enchanters useless spells (power drains) and replaced it with a Epic Mez, that would only effect Epics...  The normal mezes still would not effect Epics, and the new Epic Mez would not effect normal mobs....  It would still give Enchanters thier class defining role of being able to affect Epics, but would not nerf all the other classes in order to achieve this....</P> <P>Personally I think everyone is getting tired of SoE playing the Carrot / Stick game....  Sure, we'll let you have the Carrot, right after we beat you to death with this big stick....  Perfect example is the T7 rares for spells....  People wanted it changes, sure they changed it... They gave people the carrot they wanted, then turned around and beat half the games population with the big stick by putting them all using the rarest of the rares, Spongy Loam....  Now they are doing it again with Enchanter mez...  Sure we'll give you the ability to mez Epics, and they turn around and beat the entire game population with the big stick by nerfing everyone's skills....</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 70 Assassin  /  Parody - 63 Troubador  /  Nilla - 49 Coercer</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I really think the devs really don't understand what Enchanters are asking for and need. Every MMO I played the Enchanter was the crowd controller plain and simple. Among other abilities mezzing was their specialty. In EQ2, I really feel (Even more so now) the dev's have lost it. They clearly don't understand what to do to make this class a well rounded viable class be it for raids, groups or solo. Yes they have lost it. </P> <P>How can they honestly say this is gonna fix this class and balance things.. They either go way overboard with nerfs or do the opposite. There is no in-between or "Balance". </P> <P>And lucky us (Most everyone else), we also get to enjoy some wonderful changes. I have that same feeling I did just before LU 13 and I pray to god I don't see the horror I witnessed after LU 13 (I have a Guarduian) with LU 24. I dont mind the Conjuror pet changes but the stun/root changes are a bit much but time will tell.. I pray to god these changes are adjusted a bit and made more uesful before they go live..   <BR></P>

[Lleinen]

<P>The thing EQ1 had for enchanters was nice, it was called mobs, lots of them.</P> <P> </P> <P>In eq2 you either get a few mobs, just burn em</P> <P>or </P> <P>too much, your dead</P>

[Dojoc]

hm maybe you should start another game, b/c soe doesnt even know about there classes and this run-for-migdar race will come every patch ... from day 1 and foward all classes were unbalanced, and they will unbalanced at the end, bump<div></div>

[Birn]

Hmm, are the NPC's gonna get these stuns/stiffle nerfs aswell? I never enjoyed getting chain stunned the first 60 seconds while fighting certain mobs, it kinda kills the fun in fights.

[Chakoty]

<DIV>Agrees with Birn if there stiffling our stuns shouldnt they do the same to the NPC's to make it "More fair"? considering half the orcs in Evil side in The Ruins stun like mad. had taken on 3 orcs since i'm a SK an noticed they can solo and do multi mobs alot better then my wiz sometimes. the stun was crazy though ever 5 hits on each orc that hit me i got stunned. I was like huh??</DIV>

[enrique_to]

I really feel sorry for newbeis sorcerors with such reduced roots duration. I do not think LU 24 is fair for no one. But sorcerors takes a serious hit here. <div></div>

[Kurg]

<P><FONT color=#ffff00>Actually there is almost no Coecerer/Illusionist out there who likes the upcoming changes in LU24!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Infact SOE gave us Chanters a bone and took a big chunk of meat for it. :smileymad:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Because we Chanter will be sooooo uber and mezz/stun epics ... LOOOL ... as it stands now, we can mezz epics for 12 - 16 sec every 2 min. (what the heck a raid-party would need that?) and on the other side ALL and EVERY of our stunns/stifles/mezzes (all our core abilities) will get a MASSIVE nerf against heroic and solo mobs.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Decreased duration and resistabilities ... increased reuser and cast timers!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>THATS NOT WHAT WE WANTED SOE! I really vote to skip the changes at all ... just leave us alone SOE, gimped as we are is better than you do us more "goodies"</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>:smileymad:</FONT></P>

[R4diopir4]

I'm going to make a harsh statement.Enchanters and Troubs are ruined....Dirges, you're next<div></div>

[enrique_to]

You are not the ony ones. <div></div>

[Olondy]

It doesn't help enchanters, its a big nerf to them as well, under the illusion of tiny CC possibility to epics.  Actually its more of a nerf to Coercer's than Illusionists.  For some unfathomable reason, one of the Coercers' most valuable spells, Sonic Boom, which IMO needs an increase in power, is getting heavily nerfed. Basically this patch is nerfs across the board, in response no doubt that combat is getting too easy. Experienced players have become proficient at chain stunning, so nerf stuns accross the board,  reduce overall dps a bit (especially for  conjuror classes) and voila,  its back  towards the combat balance they want. <div></div>

[Daevin]

<DIV>I also must point out that there are enchanters out there that don't raid or do so very, very rarely, and because of this they hardly ever see epics. Those of us in that position are seeing a rather drastic reduction in our abilities with zero return for these reductions. I am in no way a superb player of my Coercer, but I consider myself about average. I have nearly all master spells since the class was so underplayed for so long, but at level 34, I'm consistently walking a fine line when soloing. A few untimely resists or an early break on a root, and it's time to rebuff and find a new pet. With the adjustments that are coming to my abilities to control basic, non-epic encounters (including more frequent resists, I might add), I'm not sure I will be able to continue this character without -always- being in a group. I'm not forecasting doom and destruction, but the more I think on these changes, the more I feel like my Coercer will go from 'fun to play' to 'work'.</DIV>

[ootpek]

*sigh*  You know whats the worst part?  I have a 70 Coercer AND a 47 Troub.   HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA <div></div>