Access quests, who complains ?

[thark]

<DIV>Who has complained about the access quests to verant the removal of them ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im still sooooo angry for them taking away the overland access(boatride quests), these were one of the best quests EQ2 had at the time, if you wanted to visit these places early on, you HAD to do them. Now they only live in my memory..And sometimes i discuss this in the guild with new players and they all wonder the same, why did they TAKE those away..? Yeah I know you can still do them, but no item will ever replace the need to do these quests, atleast no tresured item..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why does these other instance access quests have to be removed ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whats wrong with having to plan or work for getting in ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whats wrong with having a few persons in a guild that feels special so they can let a group inside ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>REALLY..who is complaining about this..plaese if you see this repond to why you told SOE to remove all these access quests ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please, reconsider this change</DIV><p>Message Edited by thark on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:26 AM</span>

[Allowin]

this is just step 19376392 of sony turning this game into a slackers paradise. sony is scared that they will loose their group of casual part time players if they dont keep dumbing down the game.these players only play 1 time a week, or maybe take a few weeks off once a month and want to come to the game and have everything that a player who plays every day has. its the same people that dont want to put time into building up a toon and getting all his CA's to adept 3 or master, and put in the time with a raid guild to gear himself up to take down end tier mobs for nice loot. they want instant results and dont want to have to do anything to get them. as they have whined and cried to sony that they cant play their 1 day a week and have the same gear/rewards ect as a player does that plays 7 days a week. sony heard the crying and as they have done since way back, they keep dumbing down the game to cater to the slackers who want everything, but dont want to do anything to get it.<div></div>

[Dreadwalk]

You could say some of us want to get into the dungeon/zone and start kicking heads.  Running around  doing stupid quests prevents that.  I think 1-70 ive skipped almost all the access quests - in my limited play time have better things to do.EQ2 has clearly become the casual gamers MMO , EQ1 / Vanguard(soon) are SOEs hardcore games.  Seems smart to have different games catering to different markets.<div></div>

[Rattfa]

I couldnt care less about access quests really. If they were mandatory to proceed through the game i would do them. If they were optional, i would choose not to. If they are not there all, it wouldnt bother me. Wouldnt campaign for their removal though. <div></div>

[Nuhus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thark wrote:<BR> <DIV>Who has complained about the access quests to verant the removal of them ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im still sooooo angry for them taking away the overland access(boatride quests), these were one of the best quests EQ2 had at the time, if you wanted to visit these places early on, you HAD to do them. Now they only live in my memory..And sometimes i discuss this in the guild with new players and they all wonder the same, why did they TAKE those away..? Yeah I know you can still do them, but no item will ever replace the need to do these quests, atleast no tresured item..</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>True, those were some of the best times of the game. That did make sense in a way, mainly because of the fact that tradeskillers couldn't get to other zones to harvest. </P> <P>The recent ones I suppose don't make any sense with only a couple exceptions, but that's my opinion. <BR></P>

[Kaiser Sigma]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dreadwalker wrote:<BR>You could say some of us want to get into the dungeon/zone and start kicking heads.  Running around  doing stupid quests prevents that.  I think 1-70 ive skipped almost all the access quests - in my limited play time have better things to do.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You do realize you are playing Ever<STRONG>Quest</STRONG> 2 right? It's a MMORPG, the RPG part means there is lore involved and that it's there to be enjoyed, not everything is hack & slash. Access quests used to give you a background about a zone, not anymore. This game becoming a visual tour wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the fact that they are stripping the content from its lore. I found 0 interest in KoS dungeons because of the lack of lore through quests on them (sans for DT but that's another issue).</P> <P>As a player who is <EM>aware</EM> that I am playing a MMORPG I believe removing access quests is a bad move. Then again, maybe it's SOE who isn't aware this is still a RPG.</P>

[Allowin]

no matter if you were a lvl 1 mage and a lvl 50 alchy, you got auto access just like everybody else to zones that had a boat ride access quest to them.and besides, if your a crafter who is way to low to do the boat ride, how long do you think you would last trying to harvest in those zones anyway.the comment made about sony turning this game into a casual/slacker game is dead on.and for those who said they have better things to do than waste your time doing a access quest? how about you shouldnt get to receive the spoils of exploring a instance or the rewards/updates of finishing a instance/zone if you have better things to do? with that mentality, why not just go buy a item off the broker and equip it and skip the whole stupid process of adventuring/exploring different parts of the game...since you have better things to do anyway..you guys are all about want it now and dont want to do anything to get it.<div></div>

[Kenazeer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thark wrote:<BR> <DIV>Who has complained about the access quests to verant the removal of them ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im still sooooo angry for them taking away the overland access(boatride quests), these were one of the best quests EQ2 had at the time, if you wanted to visit these places early on, you HAD to do them. Now they only live in my memory..And sometimes i discuss this in the guild with new players and they all wonder the same, why did they TAKE those away..? Yeah I know you can still do them, but no item will ever replace the need to do these quests, atleast no tresured item..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why does these other instance access quests have to be removed ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whats wrong with having to plan or work for getting in ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whats wrong with having a few persons in a guild that feels special so they can let a group inside ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>REALLY..who is complaining about this..plaese if you see this repond to why you told SOE to remove all these access quests ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please, reconsider this change</DIV> <P>Message Edited by thark on <SPAN class=date_text>05-12-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:26 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Could it be that SoE looked at the utilization of this content and realized that it is sitting unused for the most part because of these quests? How many people actually go to BSV except for the sole purpose of GLS? How many people do Nek Castle ( a really fun dungeon IMO) with the exception of finishing the HQs? Etc... There is a lot of usable, viable, and complete content sitting behind the barrier of the access quests. How many people have posted on the boards asking for more low level raids? Well they just openend up some with the removal of these quests (BSV, CH, and CoD). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it is a wise decision on their part to open up more of this content to players. <BR></DIV><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:22 AM</span>

[Kadurm]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Allowin wrote:<BR>this is just step 19376392 of sony turning this game into a slackers paradise. sony is scared that they will loose their group of casual part time players if they dont keep dumbing down the game.<BR><BR>these players only play 1 time a week, or maybe take a few weeks off once a month and want to come to the game and have everything that a player who plays every day has. its the same people that dont want to put time into building up a toon and getting all his CA's to adept 3 or master, and put in the time with a raid guild to gear himself up to take down end tier mobs for nice loot. they want instant results and dont want to have to do anything to get them. <BR><BR>as they have whined and cried to sony that they cant play their 1 day a week and have the same gear/rewards ect as a player does that plays 7 days a week. sony heard the crying and as they have done since way back, they keep dumbing down the game to cater to the slackers who want everything, but dont want to do anything to get it.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This might be true for some ppl, but in my line of work I am gone for months at a time and do not get to play on what would be any sort of real schedual. Yet I have done as many access quest as I can for the lore part of the game and the fact I like doing quest. That is what Everquest is supposed to be. Otherwise it could just be called "Zone in and kill mobs".</P> <P>I regret the action of them taking out the access quest as much as the next person.</P> <P> </P>

[Mordant]

<P>The OP is overlooking the single most obvious problem with access quests. </P> <P>Most of the places I encountered the required a quest to be completed to gain access left me wondering where I was supposed to find the quest. By trhe time I finished searching the world over to find the quest starter I had leveled past the dungeon I was working to gain access to!</P> <P>Unless the quest starter is standing outside the door ready to give you the quest it becomes almost useless to bother starting the search for the quest starter because you will likely have leveled past the dungeon before you even find the quest starter, let alone by the time you have actually completeed the quest.</P> <P>This is one of the best moves possible to open up all content to all players rather than reserving content for an elite few who have friends in their guilds who can direct them quickly to the locales of the quest starters!</P><p>Message Edited by Mordantus on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:54 AM</span>

[Pins]

The removal of the access quests kinda makes sense in a way. I mean think about it, most of those instances that have had the access quests removed, well they were ones that the hardcore(including myself) used to do while capped at Level 50. I mean, now there's honestly no point in getting access to the place as you'll only be there for maybe a week, then everything that drops out of there will be a waste of time completely. Thus, they remove access requirements so everybody can experience them without having to do the quests. It'll probably always be this way, every now and then old tier content has the access removed. I bet 2-3 months into EoF, Poet's Palace access will be removed.

[TheMightyTaco]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kenazeer wrote:<div></div> <div></div><div>How many people actually go to BSV except for the sole purpose of GLS? How many people do Nek Castle ( a really fun dungeon IMO) with the exception of finishing the HQs?</div><hr></blockquote>I would contend that the problem with the zones that get very little use isn't because of the access quest to get there, it's the zones themselves. I would guess that BSV is one of the least used zones in the game. I've been there for GLS and that's it. And even then, the group zoned in, killed the mobs at the gate, too a brief look around, and promptly left. Firemyst Gully comes to mind here too.And I am not saying that the zones are bad designs. I think the main problem is that they are placed horribly and tiered with the old game in mind. Even at release they were off. The level appropriateness of the content in those zones is not applicable to anyone who might be around to access them. Before vitality existed you might be level 15-18 for a week or so and find the time to explore those areas. But now, you can hit level 25 after just 25 hours of play pretty easily. Unless you disable XP you are going breeze by the content.The best thing they could do, in my opinion, is leave the access quests there to promote a story line and then revamp the instanced zones to operate like Splitpaw. Place timers on the entry and let people fight level appropriate content inside those zones.As for Nek castle, I wouldn't put it in the list of zones with problems. Maybe it's just me and my guildmates, but there a lot to do there story-wise and quest-wise. Overall, the castle is a fun zone to run around in apart from the HQ's.</div>

[Y]

I have mixed feelings about the removal of those access quests. While I had fun doing some of those, more often than not I had already outlevelled the zone by the time I finished the access quest. Overall I think it's a good thing to open up some of those zones. It will give especially newer players more to do and give more exposure to some of the more exotic zones.<div></div>

[Lord Montague]

<DIV>A few other points of consideration to bear in mind.  It is not entirely accurate to state that the access quests were removed.  They are still present, and if you really really want the lore you can do them.  Only the requirement to enter the zone has been changed so that you don't need to complete these quests to gain entry.</DIV>

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lord Montague wrote:<BR> <DIV>A few other points of consideration to bear in mind.  It is not entirely accurate to state that the access quests were removed.  They are still present, and if you really really want the lore you can do them.  Only the requirement to enter the zone has been changed so that you don't need to complete these quests to gain entry.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Aye, but the people who are arguing 'but I want the storyline' and its an RPG are as lazy as everyone else. They arent going to do anything they dont have to. </P> <P>This is the same old thing that occurred when the access was removed for Zek and El, we all survived it and will survive this. As to the hardcore game, Vanguard has no instanced zones, ergo Im betting no access quests either. </P>

[Evyan]

seriously, you guys are taking an "option" away when removing these access quests, some people do actually enjoy doing these quests to get into somewhere new =) ..... don't take away that fun.<div></div>

[Kenazeer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Evyan wrote:<BR>seriously, you guys are taking an "option" away when removing these access quests, some people do actually enjoy doing these quests to get into somewhere new =) ..... don't take away that fun.<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I don't think they are removing the quests, simply changing the reward, as they did when they changed the boat rides. They will still be there to do as options I believe.

[Screamin' 1]

<blockquote><hr>Mordantus wrote:<P>The OP is overlooking the single most obvious problem with access quests. </P><P>Most of the places I encountered the required a quest to be completed to gain access left me wondering where I was supposed to find the quest. By trhe time I finished searching the world over to find the quest starter I had leveled past the dungeon I was working to gain access to!</P><P>Unless the quest starter is standing outside the door ready to give you the quest it becomes almost useless to bother starting the search for the quest starter because you will likely have leveled past the dungeon before you even find the quest starter, let alone by the time you have actually completeed the quest.</P><P>This is one of the best moves possible to open up all content to all players rather than reserving content for an elite few who have friends in their guilds who can direct them quickly to the locales of the quest starters!</P><p>Message Edited by Mordantus on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:54 AM</span><hr></blockquote>This problem is solved easily with 2 minutes of reading on ogaming.com There is no reasonable basis for claiming someone will outlevel a quest simply because it takes them time to find the access quest to the zone. How long does it take to search ogaming, or to do this: " /ooc Hi everyone, could someone please tell me the quest I need for Nek Castle Access?" You don't need to be one of the elite few to do that. Sheesh.The problem is also easily solved by SOE adjusting the quests or adding NPCs to the zone entrances so it is easier to find them. Removing the quest requirements altogether cheapens the game, IMO. I did not think this way about the access quests to Everfrost, etc, because those were the main staple zones, and being main parts of the world, it made more sense that anyone who was brave enough should be able to go there.<p>Message Edited by Screamin' 103 on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:10 PM</span><p>Message Edited by Screamin' 103 on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:11 PM</span>

[Gungo]

<P>Why do people care that access quests are removed?</P> <P>Seriosiously does it make it any more special to enter a 10 min kill mo A zone that took 3 days of camping names or harvests. EQ1 had very few access quests and those were mainly for raid zones not normal advanture zones (until PoP came out in which case everyone complained about how restricitve PoP was) Access quests should be rare instacnes of quality dungeons, but not everyday adventure zones or 1 stop kill zones. </P> <P>90% of the access zones i have gotten and believe me i have nearly everyone i can find (minus vestibule since i never got that dang drop in obelisk) i went in once zoned in said this sucks and never went in again. Access zones shoudl provide access to a real purpose not some mini group adv that takes 10 min to finish and 2 days to get access. The only thing removed here is the mindless jumps to many useless zones.</P> <P>remeber there are less people willing to do these access quests at lower lvl especially twinks who know what reward lies after completeign this access. This only opens up alot mroe content. Seriosuly how many peopel here actually entered Vestibule and found it remotely worth the time of access.</P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:26 AM</span>

[valkyrja]

Personally, I think as the game gets older, the low level access quests have to get removed.  Could you inagime having a level 25 character now and wanting to go to EL?  Not only is it very difficult to find a group at low levels, can you imagine finding one to do a lenghty boat ride?  It's fine that they remain for higher tiers, but lower level players need to be able to more easily do things due to the lack of people for them to group with.To me, it has nothing to do with being a Slacker.  I've been playing my lowbie mystic and was thinking how much of a PITA it is going to be to try to do To Speak as  a Dragon in a few more levels, because of the access required.I think this is a great change.<div></div>

[Rijacki]

<div><blockquote><hr>Nuhus wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> thark wrote: <div></div> <div>Who has complained about the access quests to verant the removal of them ?</div> <div> </div> <div>Im still sooooo angry for them taking away the overland access(boatride quests), these were one of the best quests EQ2 had at the time, if you wanted to visit these places early on, you HAD to do them. Now they only live in my memory..And sometimes i discuss this in the guild with new players and they all wonder the same, why did they TAKE those away..? Yeah I know you can still do them, but no item will ever replace the need to do these quests, atleast no tresured item..</div> <div> </div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>True, those were some of the best times of the game. That did make sense in a way, mainly because of the fact that tradeskillers couldn't get to other zones to harvest. </p> <p>The recent ones I suppose don't make any sense with only a couple exceptions, but that's my opinion. </p><hr></blockquote>Tradeskillers could get to the zones at exactly the same time as anyone who didn't do the -early- access quests for the overland zones.  It started out at x4 and then was reduced to x2 before it was removed.  As a low-20s wizard, while the access quests were still in place, I was harvesting in EL and had even gone into the entry area of Feerrott and Everfrost (maybe Lavastorm, too, I forget).  I harvested T5, though, in Rivervale, still with the overland zone access quests in place and still only in my low to mid 20s as a wizard... but with a -much- higher level in alchemy (44+ for EL/Zek, and then 52+ for Feerrott/Everfrost).It was a PITA not being able to go to the zones until after I'd been in the teir a while and it was risky to harvest there with a much lower adventure level, but it was possible.</div>

[Tarmagin]

The problem is that most of these access quests are such a big part of the game as it now stands.  Sure you could avoid them, but you would be missing a large part of the lore and feel for the different zones.  A MMOG should be more than an exercise in mindless slaughter.  Sure you can play that way but you will soon get bored and will most likely leave.  Do not remove game content just because it may pose a challenge for some players.  Things that help immerse you in the lore of the game can not be sliced away without diminishing what is left behind.  Easier does not equal better.

[Renpatsu]

<DIV>Well, obviously there are people who enjoy the access quests, some don't. The only outcome of access quests being mandatory is to make those who don't enjoy access quest consider, whether the length/toughness/reward of the access quest is worth the zone it grants access to. Those who love doing access quests will do them anyway. The essential outcome is, that some zones would be used less and the players who don't like access quests will complain about them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The lore argument is actually no valid one in this discussion from my point of view. The access quests are still there, so if you want to experience the lore, go ahead and do the access quests. Should it be mandatory to experience the lore ? I don't think so under the aspect of recent EQ2 development toward casual players. To enforce players to do certain things should be used with caution overall.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only valid reason for access quests I see nowadays would be to control the flow of players into a zone. That's perfectly valid for some zones - Deathtoll and Chamber of Immortality come to my mind - but not for huge overland zones like Enchanted Lands. In the end SoE decides where the line between zones with and without access quest is placed. Their strategy is to remove some very old access quests from being mandatory but nevertheless implement some new one. Overall that's quite a good solution for me. The opinions of the player base is wide spread of course - I stated mine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I do enjoy a couple of access quests for 2 perhaps even 3 times ( got some alts :smileyhappy: ), after that I am probably at the point of not enjoying certain access quests anymore and it's only tedious to do those.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Lordviperscorpian]

Face it, some of those access quest were pointless.  By the time you had completed some such as CoD or CoI access your char was ready to move on to better dungeons.  They were just a pointless time sink.  I for one am glad they are taking some of the lower level ones away.  They were just stupid.<div></div>

[Finora]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tarmagin wrote:<BR> The problem is that most of these access quests are such a big part of the game as it now stands.  Sure you could avoid them, but you would be missing a large part of the lore and feel for the different zones.  A MMOG should be more than an exercise in mindless slaughter.  Sure you can play that way but you will soon get bored and will most likely leave.  Do not remove game content just because it may pose a challenge for some players.  Things that help immerse you in the lore of the game can not be sliced away without diminishing what is left behind.  Easier does not equal better.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>They aren't removing anything except for the REQUIREMENT to finish the quest. The quests are still there for you to do to get your lore fix. </P> <P>I'm one of those who LOVE the lore. I do all the quests I can find. I read every word of the dialogue from the NPCs (often to the frustration of my husband and guildmates). I actually read the books I get from book quests.</P> <P>I don't see any problem at all removing these requirements for entering these zones. The lore is still there, the only people who are going to not see it are the people who wouldn't have cared in the first place and don't pay any attention to anything with the quests except for what they have to do next to get it over with.</P>

[thark]

<DIV>You all seems to forget one vital thing about the current access quest setting, and that is that only "one" person has to do acccess to let others in...This was a good change and made sence, but to give every lootmonkey a key for free isnt making any sence at all..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And for the "timesinkers"  You need to ask yourself what am I here for ? Why am I playing this game ? Why do I wish to get more power ? Why do I actually need to get more loot. As fast as possible, with as little obstacales in the way to get the phaaat loot as possible, Why do I have to make friends in a game ? Why is this zone actually here ? Why is there a lock on it's doors ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please reconsider these changes SoE</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/Rigge</DIV>