Delete me.

[Ewil]

<DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Removed. Derailing and lack of attention from devs.</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Lazaron on <span class=date_text>05-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:02 AM</span>

[Gertack_v2]

As I posted on the Befallen forums: Most of the instance access quests were lame because by the time you finished the quest, the instance was gray.How many people actually did these zones as loot instances and not just HQ updates way later?- Chamber of Immortality- Cove of Decay- Overlord's Throne Room (Runnyeye)- Tseralith's Lair (Fallen Gate)- Tomb of ValorI doubt many.  But for the T5 stuff, I bet those were hit constantly, because they didn't go gray so we could finish the quest and then actually do them.<div></div>----And yes, I did access quests (and boat rides) way back when it was required for everyone in the group to have done it.

[Celestian_]

<div></div>Why does every person who has no idea what they are talking about say "dumb down"?Have you ever tried to group in ANY of these areas lately? In fact, have you went to any of the old zones after the expansions come out and try to make a group for ANY zone that requires access quest? Unless your guildies all go and you've all done it ... guess what, it's almost impossible if you come in late in the game.You think people are smarter because they did some quest to get access? Well, they can still do the quest cept now they can enter the zone with others who haven't.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Celestian_GC on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:47 PM</span>

[Lordviperscorpian]

I agree, CoI and CoD were horrible access quests.  By the time you were down with them the zone would be green/grey.  This change seems good, but who knows it could backfire.<div></div>

[DeathRider69]

I must agree here.  Here is my simple logic (from an illogical point of view <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )Example 1:   Nek Castle1. Access quest is level 25 but EASILY completed by my scout at level 18, Inquisitor at 21, and Shadow Knight at 22.2. Nek Castle requires a really strong group of 30+ to compelete all quests to get to Everling and kill him.3. Requires around 40-45 to even hope on Soloing.Thus Solo survival is around level 40 and group around 32-35.  AQ can be done by level 18.  Why are you removing the access quest?Example 2: Obelisk of Lost Souls:1. AQ can be soloed by an Ebon'd SK at 45, decent armored Beserker at 48, owned by group of four 40s.2. Zone is 37-50 thus need 40-45 to be comforable, 55+ to solo.3. Highler level zones give direct access without need AQ.  These zones are generally 40-50s.4. There are lots of 38^^^ to 40^^^ mobs and a really fun to kill Dragon guarding the door.Thus if players can make it to the door, they can take on the mobs needed for AQ.  So what I see from my adventuring is that any player that can "safely" grind in an AQ zone can easily handle the AQ quest.  As such I do not see any reason to remove the quests on that merit.  It is not a player level issue on the AQs. So I am confused on why they are being removed...  OH!!!! I GET IT NOW!!!!1. Players want AQ zone goodies.2. AQ mobs has BAD respawn timers of 1 hour to 18 hours.3. AQ mobs are contested and muiltple groups are camping them.4. Players do not want to wait on MOBS.THUS!It is deciced to remove the AQ all together rather than fix the MOB RESPAWN TIMERS or adjust the AQ.So now that it has been necided to nerf the AQ, players get bonus prizes for those who are inclined to do them for quest counts.  There is no longer any reason for the AQs.  Thus those of us who spent 2-3 weeks camping to get 1 rare mob to spawn for an AQ wasted the time because now EVERYONE gets in.  All of the zone loot reserved for the select few is now open to all.  In closing... That just sucks...<div></div>

[Lera]

<div><blockquote><hr>DeathRider69 wrote:So now that it has been necided to nerf the AQ, players get bonus prizes for those who are inclined to do them for quest counts.  There is no longer any reason for the AQs.  Thus those of us who spent 2-3 weeks camping to get 1 rare mob to spawn for an AQ wasted the time because now EVERYONE gets in.  All of the zone loot reserved for the select few is now open to all.  In closing... That just sucks...<div></div><hr></blockquote>You didn't waste your time - you did what was necessary to get into the zone, and got the loot way before others did. It's no different than, for example, paying a whole lot of money for the latest technology when the price will drop in a couple years and everyone will have one.Camping for weeks for a mob, by the way, is called really bad game design. I don't mind long quests, or difficult quests (I finished the roekillik series in Icy Digs, which took many attempts and was a major pain), but I don't like spending my playing time doing nothing or having it depend completely on the random number generator, which I've discovered hates me.Would I like to see the access quests stay? Yes. Is removing them something that would make me leave the game? No way, but then, I'm not into the "my loot is better than your loot, so I'm better than you" thing.</div>

[kenm]

<P>I have to agree with this.  What's the fun if you don't actually earn your right to be in a zone?</P> <P>And what the hell, you remove the good access quests and leave the idiotic way to get to the Godking in?  Doing a one-time access quest > farming eyes every single [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing time you want into a zone.<BR>Yeah, let's remove the enjoyable way and leave in the one that makes 24 people want to kill themselves every time they do it.</P><p>Message Edited by kenman on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:02 PM</span>

[Pouncer74]

Tts bad business to have content that few folks bother to enjoy.  I dont feel ALL of these access quests were so challanging they needed to be removed, but some of them were so difficult noone bothered with them.  Remember that in eq2 today most folks are not going to stay in say tier 5 long enough to invest the time to do all these access quests.  Theyll be tier 7 before then.

[Robaidh]

Laz, I don't consider any of those things you mentioned fun. They have always been nothing but wasteful timesinks that kept you from doing more productive things for your character. What they are doing is removing unfun unproductive timesink type tasks. I don't find it any great reward to get something for simply putting in a massive amount of time doing a bunch of little things or waiting out a camp. What is rewarding though are strategy oriented tasks where you get something good for figuring out how to complete them which all mmorgs in general still have to work towards that goal. Most are still stuck in the timesink reward mode.

[Carryne]

I am glad to see the access quests removed.  I play a lot of alts and the though of doing the same access quest for each one because they are required to get access to a zone is not much fun for me.  There are a number of zones I have never seen because I haven't been in a group where any had access or wanted to spend time getting it.   I hope to be able to see new areas of the game when this change goes live so I am looking forward to it.<div></div>

[Tro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gertack wrote:<BR>As I posted on the Befallen forums:<BR><BR>Most of the instance access quests were lame because by the time you finished the quest, the instance was gray.<BR><BR>How many people actually did these zones as loot instances and not just HQ updates way later?<BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0033>- Chamber of Immortality</FONT><BR>- Cove of Decay<BR>- Overlord's Throne Room (Runnyeye)<BR>- Tseralith's Lair (Fallen Gate)<BR>- Tomb of Valor<BR><BR>I doubt many.  But for the T5 stuff, I bet those were hit constantly, because they didn't go gray so we could finish the quest and then actually do them.<BR> <BR>----<BR><BR>And yes, I did access quests (and boat rides) way back when it was required for everyone in the group to have done it.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I didn't see CoI on the update notes as being one of the zones where an AQ is no longer required.. did I miss it?<BR>

[Amocus]

No, I don't think of it as dumbing down, I think of it as removing wasteful timesinks. I see very few reasons for access quests of any kind; at least in the way they are devised currently. If I want to access a certain zone, why in the world do i have to kill hundreds (well lots anyway) of mobs totally unrelated to the reason I'm trying to get into a zone (Miragul's for one). If there is to be an access quest, it at least needs to make some sort of sense as far as why what I am doing is needed for access. <div></div>

[Cuz]

<P>The term "dumbing down" is... errrr... dumbing down the english language.</P> <P>Darn you.</P><p>Message Edited by Jenoy on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:52 AM</span>

[Terron]

CoD and CoI I have done several times whilst green. I did both of them with my level 39 swashie alt this week. I haven't completed the access quest for CoD with her, but completed the one for CoI on Wednesday. I think the CoI one works well. The rewards are decent (master chests from the nameds) and you get to kill a bunch of mobs very 10 minutes of so even when waiting. The fight inside CoI with just a templar mentored to my level was great fun. I was doing the HQ, but the loot was good too. Some access quests are good, some stop you getting into the area whilst it would still be a challenge. Only the latter need removing or altering. All quests are unproductive timesinks, but so is everything in EQ2, and just about every game not played professionally. Whether you find them fun a not is a matter of taste. Personnaly I do. <div></div>

[KBern]

<P>Allowing more people to use the zones is not dumbing down the game.</P> <P>This is just a way to allow people who enjoy soloing and small groups w/o access to a steady group to explore some areas when the content is of the appropriate level.</P> <P> </P> <P>And yes, I have played since Day 1 and have probably done every access quest at least 2x and still see no reason for some of them.</P>

[Senr]

<div><blockquote><hr>kenman wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>I have to agree with this.  What's the fun if you don't actually earn your right to be in a zone?</p> <hr></blockquote>You're missing the same thing most people are missing. These zones were not used. Removing the access quests MIGHT change that. SoE is doing this because they are tired of seeing 50 people in Runnyeye and 50 people in Ruin of Varsoon, and no one in any of the locked zones. Why? To hard to put a group of people with access together to go into. Even if you decide to do the access quest, you're still having to pray to find 5 other people, of the appropriate level and classes, to hit the zone.  Call it making the game easier. People do that every time something changes to remove an obstacle they had to go through, regardless whether it was a complete PITA when they did it. I call it spacing the players out better.</div>

[jarlaxle8]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KBern wrote:<BR> <P>Allowing more people to use the zones is not dumbing down the game.</P> <P>This is just a way to allow people who enjoy soloing and small groups w/o access to a steady group to explore some areas when the content is of the appropriate level.</P> <P> </P> <P>And yes, I have played since Day 1 and have probably done every access quest at least 2x and still see no reason for some of them.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>i agree fully</P> <P>lots of content is not used because a lot of people don't have the time or a regular group to do the access quest whithout outleveling it.</P>

[Taishi]

I hate to sound like an old man by saying it but back in the days of old EQ2 the Access Quests were some of the most meaningful and trying times I ever had.  It was a rite of passage that proved your worth and effort. They made them fairly difficult so you would actually feel rewarded for your efforts. Removing them so people can hop into whichever zone they please is dumb. You may call it a time sink but I call it fun. The game is called EverQUEST for a reason. Maybe we should just remove all the quests and you can just hail whatever final mob you need to kill for a reward and just hack n slash away. Sound stupid? I think so. Part of doing the quests is to "immerse" you in the game and give you a sense of accomplishment. Taking this out makes it that much less appealing since you are losing the value of questing and adventuring. If all you want to do is kill things then go play Halo 2 with your buddies. It is pointless to play a rpg of any kind if you can't even stand to put forth even a mild effort. I know this won't change anything but it's my rant dammit!

[jarlaxle8]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Taishici wrote:<BR> I hate to sound like an old man by saying it but back in the days of old EQ2 the Access Quests were some of the most meaningful and trying times I ever had.  It was a rite of passage that proved your worth and effort. They made them fairly difficult so you would actually feel rewarded for your efforts. Removing them so people can hop into whichever zone they please is dumb. You may call it a time sink but I call it fun. The game is called EverQUEST for a reason. Maybe we should just remove all the quests and you can just hail whatever final mob you need to kill for a reward and just hack n slash away. Sound stupid? I think so. Part of doing the quests is to "immerse" you in the game and give you a sense of accomplishment. Taking this out makes it that much less appealing since you are losing the value of questing and adventuring. If all you want to do is kill things then go play Halo 2 with your buddies. It is pointless to play a rpg of any kind if you can't even stand to put forth even a mild effort. I know this won't change anything but it's my rant dammit!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>know what? i do lot's of quests. i like to do quests. but i don't want to fit my RL around a game - it is a game, and therefore it has the same worth as halo: pure entertainment. so, because lacking time, i solo a lot. i do solo quests. just for doing them, because most of the time the loot isn't worth the effort.</P> <P>so, what about this: i'm cool if they make all access quests soloable, at decent amount of time on par with what the zone is worth. with your arguments of immersion that should fit. i wouldn't mind that.</P> <P>but most of them are heroic, therefore those zones are gonna be very uninteresting to most, cause what pick up group wants to do a long heroic quest, just so you can go in a zone which probably isn't worth the effort? and it is sometimes a lot of effort considering what you get out of it, not just 'mild effort', like you and others of the 'oh no, they're making it dumber' league think. so in the end, what you get is content not used by the majority. and the majority is like that. the game is meant for casuals, unlike EQ.</P> <P>and this is MY rant, dammit.:smileytongue:</P> <P> </P>

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Taishici wrote:<BR> I hate to sound like an old man by saying it but back in the days of old EQ2 the Access Quests were some of the most meaningful and trying times I ever had.  It was a rite of passage that proved your worth and effort. They made them fairly difficult so you would actually feel rewarded for your efforts. Removing them so people can hop into whichever zone they please is dumb. You may call it a time sink but I call it fun. The game is called EverQUEST for a reason. Maybe we should just remove all the quests and you can just hail whatever final mob you need to kill for a reward and just hack n slash away. Sound stupid? I think so. Part of doing the quests is to "immerse" you in the game and give you a sense of accomplishment. Taking this out makes it that much less appealing since you are losing the value of questing and adventuring. If all you want to do is kill things then go play Halo 2 with your buddies. It is pointless to play a rpg of any kind if you can't even stand to put forth even a mild effort. I know this won't change anything but it's my rant dammit!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Then simply put more challenging quests INSIDE the zone to force people to utilize the content even more.</P> <P>Access quests just prevent some people from using zones.</P> <P>To use your own point, this is called Everquest, not Everaccessquest.</P>

[Tomanak]

<P>I remember when they removed the access quests for Zek and EL and how the masses cried..then they removed more access quests and the sound of gnashing of teeth was deafening..well guess what? We all survived, EQ2 is still here and no one died. While I dont care if they remove access quests or not (and I did them all including the PITA lavastorm quest) removal of them now will make it easier for people to create PuGs without worrying about who has access and who doesnt. If they lowered the HPs and levels of the mobs in the zone and made them easier to kill, Id agree that is a 'dumbing down', removing the quests, while it may annoying to those who have already done them isnt dumbing down, its streamlining. Consider the fact that EVERY dungeon in Vanguard (the supposedly hardcorest or them all) is open entry..not an access quest in site..so I guess they dumbed it down too..</P> <P>As to removing the access to the Godking. I have to agree. Fix that one. Camping eyes is no fun.</P>

[KBern]

<P>Yep access quests to some zones simply seemed like a cheap way to make artificial difficulty.</P> <P>If the access quest is more tedious and difficult than the zone, something is wrong.</P> <P>Make the zones harder and give free access if there is some issue, and that way people who shouldn't be there, wont stay for long....but artificial lockouts on non raid type zones I never understood.</P>

[Ultimatum]

<div></div>First of all, most access quests werent THAT long...yeah, they took some mob camping, but there were usually so many people doing the quests that you could easily get into the zone.  Plus the first parts of most access quests were soloable up until the last named before the boatride and the boatride itself...I absolutely loved the feeling of accomplishment I had the first time I set foot in the Enchanted Lands and there were only a handfull of people in the zone.  And I also loved taking groups of friends through the access so we could XP in the new zone, even after I had done it 10 times before.  The loot for the access quests were good, and the design itself was awesome...if anyone remembers the boat ride where you had to keep mobs from spawning by dusting off gear cranks and keeping them wound up, or the excellent Lavastorm boat ride where Goblins kept trying to burn the boat down and you had to douse the flamse with buckets of water.....that was some A+ level design that actually took THOUGHT and TEAMWORK to complete...2 ideals that for the most part are now defunct.  Thumbs down to this removal of access quests.  No new players will know what its like to take a few hours to complete an access quest to be able to see a kickass new zone...the Return to Nek Castle was also an awesome access quest...how long will it be until Deathtoll and Fountain of Life have their access quests removed?  Every feeling of accomplishment is slowly being sucked away by designers who obviosly dont know [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] they are doing.and to people saying Access Quests prevent people from doing zones...GOOD THATS THE POINT.  Not everyone has the patience to complete these quests, so when you actually DO finish an AQ, you can be proud hat you are one of the few who can see the zone....if people don't want to get off their lazy [Removed for Content] and complete an access quest then they can go somewhere else, there are plenty of non AQ zones to see.  These lazy people who want no risk for their reward need to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and quit ruining it for the people who like the direction the game was going in its first year...but because everyone has to whine that "this quest is too hard" or "raiders get better gear no fair" and "I'm too effing lazy to camp nameds or wait 7h between quest steps so please give me things for free" after the first year the game lost half its initial charm and had it replaced with hot trash...thanks whiners!<div></div><p>Message Edited by Razerblaze on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:56 AM</span>

[espmrred]

I see it both ways, while I'm quite disappointed to see Access Quests being removed from so many zones, however with less and less bodies in the lower tiered zones, they probably weren't being utilized well. That said however, even WITH the removal of the access quests, are these zones really going to be used? Doubtful, with the exception of a few zones, the loot inside wasn't all that spectacular, and with the new and improved loot found in RoV and RE, why will people leave those zones, to go elsewhere? People in lower tiers nowadays typically only care about 2 things -- leveling fast, and getting good loot, so why leave zones that accomplish both?

[Lera]

<blockquote><hr>Razerblaze wrote:<div></div> and to people saying Access Quests prevent people from doing zones...GOOD THATS THE POINT.  Not everyone has the patience to complete these quests, so when you actually DO finish an AQ, you can be proud hat you are one of the few who can see the zone....if people don't want to get off their lazy [Removed for Content] and complete an access quest then they can go somewhere else, there are plenty of non AQ zones to see.  These lazy people who want no risk for their reward need to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and quit ruining it for the people who like the direction the game was going in its first year...but because everyone has to whine that "this quest is too hard" or "raiders get better gear no fair" and "I'm too effing lazy to camp nameds or wait 7h between quest steps so please give me things for free" after the first year the game lost half its initial charm and had it replaced with hot trash...thanks whiners!<div></div> <hr></blockquote>If an access quest (or any quest, for that matter) requires waiting 7 hours, that's crappy game design. I'm not paying $15 a month to play EverWait. There should be something to do - collect stuff, kill stuff, visit stuff - rather than just standing around waiting for that named to spawn. There's no risk to camping, just boredom. Most people don't want the difficulty decreased, but do want limited or no waiting around and for the reward to be worth the access quest. One could even say it's the lazy players that camp nameds for hours, since the rest of us have these things called jobs, families, and other hobbies. If camping and waiting is your idea of fun, then find a game which has that and go play it. Others prefer enjoying the actual content. This sounds like people who spend $10,000 on one of those plasma screen TVs whining when the price drops to $2000 - "I paid $10,000 for mine - why should others get it for less?" - and I saw exactly this sort of whining when they dropped the prices on horses, carpets, and other high-end items. SOE wants to have as many people as possible be able to enjoy most of the content in the game - that's best for business, and this is first and foremost a business. Don't like it? Go play Vanguard. (Oh, wait, that's SOE now. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>) <div></div>

[Aaliamz]

Was half expecting to see Deathtoll access on the list too. <span>:smileywink:</span> <div></div>

[Senr]

<div><blockquote><hr>Aaliamzen wrote:Was half expecting to see Deathtoll access on the list too. <span>:smileywink:</span> <div></div><hr></blockquote>It only makes sense to remove the AQs from the zones that aren't used anymore. I'll all for having AQs for the desireable zones. Why? Because people will do them, which means they are worth doing as. When 5% of the people on the server finish the AQ for Firemist Gully, what is the point of finishing it yourself? So you can have access and then try to find other people who have finished it before using it? That isn't going to happen. You'll outlevel it before finding a group to go in. I did access with my first two characters and have been in the zone exactly once. A waste of time to have finished the AQ. Same with Vale of Shattering. Now, an alternative that I'd have potentially supported would be required all access quests to only need one person in a group to have completed them. Then, you finish the quest, and you can take a group to the zone. Maybe it would have been worth doing some access quests if you could actually use the zones once you'd finished them. </div>

[Kenazeer]

<DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:27 AM</span>

[SageGaspar]

I'm fine with a bunch of these, but...These ones took some time, but they're worth it if you have a group of the appropriate level looking to enter. All these need are appropriate rewards added into the zones and people will do them gladly (some you've done this to already):<b>* The Firemyst Gully* The Sanctum of Fear* Bloodskull Valley: The Excavation Site* The Eternal Gorge* Miragul's Menagerie* The Obelisk of Lost Souls* Nektropos Castle</b>These are so trivial to access I have no idea why you're removing the quests. If you're looking for solo content you're going to be doing these quests anyway. It just takes away from the purpose of the zone:<b>* The Forbidden Sepulcher* The Darkblade Den of Assassins* The Lair of the Necromancer</b>This one is just sorta fluff, being able to enter the back door. Honestly, if I had my way, these quests would be the prerequisites for Chamber of Immortality, the original quest just didn't really make much sense (some guy is sick, some old dude tells you to kill three people inside, boom you have access).<b>* The Ruins of Varsoon</b><div></div>

[Ultimatum]

Actually the 7 hours wait I was talking about was the wait to be able to get the newxt step in the carpet quest in Sinking Sands.  That was an awesome idea for a quest because 1) it didnt require camping, you finish a part of the quest, and you go off finishing other quests until you can continue the carpet one.  2) it was challenging 3) the reward wasnt something you needed to have, nor was it something that could help you fight easier...it was a fluff reward.  But because impatient people had to complain, it was changed to where you can get a group and do the whole quest in 45 mins.  THAT imo is poor design.  Also, as far as access quests, I liked the idea of one person that has access being able to zone the group in, like Bastion of Flames...I think we definately need more zones like that.  One group from your guild could go ahead and do the access, and then 6 groups would be able to go in after that.  It gives a sense of worth to your character since you are needed by the group to give them access to the zone's loot.<div></div>

[Sadaen]

<P>I think a simple way of looking at it, there are people who enjoy questing those people usally do not mind the access quests. For the Middle of the road quester and the person that just despises it, access quest suck.</P> <P> </P> <P>I think in my whole EQ2 career I have done maybe 9? Why cause I dislike it that much! </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Sadaen</P> <P>70 Swashbuckler</P> <P>Blackburrow</P>

[Ultimatum]

Which brings me to the point of either don't complain about not doing an instance or going to a new zone because there are plenty others to exprience, or ride the coattails of someone who took the time to do the access quest for the zone.  I for one never finished Poets Palace access, but I still found a way to do the zone every day for close to 3 months.  <div></div>

[Lera]

<div><blockquote><hr>Razerblaze wrote:Actually the 7 hours wait I was talking about was the wait to be able to get the newxt step in the carpet quest in Sinking Sands.  That was an awesome idea for a quest because 1) it didnt require camping, you finish a part of the quest, and you go off finishing other quests until you can continue the carpet one.  2) it was challenging 3) the reward wasnt something you needed to have, nor was it something that could help you fight easier...it was a fluff reward.  But because impatient people had to complain, it was changed to where you can get a group and do the whole quest in 45 mins.  THAT imo is poor design.  Also, as far as access quests, I liked the idea of one person that has access being able to zone the group in, like Bastion of Flames...I think we definately need more zones like that.  One group from your guild could go ahead and do the access, and then 6 groups would be able to go in after that.  It gives a sense of worth to your character since you are needed by the group to give them access to the zone's loot.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I agree a reward like the carpet shouldn't take 45 minutes. I don't have a problem with it taking 7 or 8 hours of playing time, and it should, but I'd rather see that be 7 or 8 hours of actual content (including travel time). Of course, designing quests like that is more effort on the devs' part than nerfing things, so we get nerfs.</div>

[Lydiae]

<P>This is silly.  If you want to do the quests they're still there, and now you get something "tangible" for them, so you can still feel superior to people who chose not to do them and prove it to them by dispaying your uber loot.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffcc66><rant></FONT></P> <P>Ultimately MMO's boil down to the amount of time you want to devote to them.  People with the most free time get the best stuff.  That's why uber loot is a spurious claim to fame in many people's eyes.  Did you ever hear the radio commercial where a guy is trying to get a job based on having beaten 50 levels of Immoral Combat or some such?</P> <P><FONT color=#ffcc66></rant></FONT></P> <P>And don't dilute the meaning of the term "nerf" by equating to any change you don't like.</P>

[masakre]

<DIV>heh, I think it is hilarious people play this game and don't like quests. Did you read the title of the game you play? "Ever-Quest"</DIV>

[WeatherMan]

<blockquote><hr>Senr wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Aaliamzen wrote:Was half expecting to see Deathtoll access on the list too. <span>:smileywink:</span> <div></div><hr></blockquote>It only makes sense to remove the AQs from the zones that aren't used anymore. I'll all for having AQs for the desireable zones. Why? Because people will do them, which means they are worth doing as. When 5% of the people on the server finish the AQ for Firemist Gully, what is the point of finishing it yourself? So you can have access and then try to find other people who have finished it before using it? That isn't going to happen. You'll outlevel it before finding a group to go in. I did access with my first two characters and have been in the zone exactly once. A waste of time to have finished the AQ. Same with Vale of Shattering. Now, an alternative that I'd have potentially supported would be required all access quests to only need one person in a group to have completed them. Then, you finish the quest, and you can take a group to the zone. Maybe it would have been worth doing some access quests if you could actually use the zones once you'd finished them. </div><hr></blockquote>I have two thoughts on this subject..... One, the access quest removal is pretty much a done deal.  Whether one likes them or not, the access quests are going bye-bye...nothing any of us, pro or con, can do to change that.  Yes, I know, the forums are the place for feedback and discussion and so forth...but the devs ignore a lot of what is posted here to begin with.  I am likely one of those rare types who doesn't mind one way or the other.  Heck, I have a wizard who reached 28th level before I even saw a Lightbringer wisp....and unless you are doing "The Return of the Light" Heritage quest, I saw no real onus for quickly doing the access quest for Bloodskull Valley.  Now, of course, I was helping a friend do her AQ, and there's the Lightbringer wisp....grey as the hair on my head, but there nontheless.  So I killed it....and we both sailed through the quest, right up through killing the High Priest of Val'Marr. Oops.... Last encounter is inside Bloodskull Valley....so, no choice...gotta do the access quest.  Which was fine.  At level 28 (to 29, and I was mentored to 25), the only part of the access quest I utterly despised was twiddling my thumbs waiting for Captain Goofball or Commander BozoBreath to spawn.  I would be perfectly content if they would fix some of these lackbrain respawn times...THAT, to me, is what is frustrating.  Other than that...yes, I'm willing to wait until a quest has greyed out....if I cannot find guildies or a PuG doing that quest, I may have no choice. Two, I am hoping that they will still retain the quests themselves for those of us who might want to do them, even though they are removing them as an actual access requirement.  I still get 'Maid for the Mist' at the Nektulos docks bell as an option every time I zone into EL, even though I have already completed the quest....I hope they keep this feature.<div></div>

[SageGaspar]

I'd be happy if they made just one person have to get access per group. It's just a really big copout and defeats a lot of the feel of the game in my opinion. The AQs have some of the best lore in the game and build up to the zones perfectly. If they're just sitting open it's just another meaningless dungeon slog.Think Hidden Cache, or Sanctorium, Scornfeather's Roost, Vault of Dust, Ancient Table... they're just meaningless zones that you pop into for treasure. Who knows what the people are really doing inside or why you're killing them?<div></div>

[Iari111]

<DIV>/shrug I don't view it as dumbing down.  More like facing reality.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't imagine I am so very out of the norm that there are not many out there like me..   at level 70, I have at least 15 unfished/never to be finished access quests sitting in my journal.  All green.  Some as far back as my level 20s.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love questing, but for some reason access quests feel boring to me.  I enjoy zones with no access requirement as much as zones that do, more so usually.  If anything, zones that are not required for an HQ never get visited (by me) if there is an access quest.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never complained about the access quests, nor will I complain about their removals.  It's just another day in Norrath.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Iari111 on <SPAN class=date_text>05-12-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:02 PM typos suck</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Iari111 on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:03 PM</span>

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> masakre wrote:<BR> <DIV>heh, I think it is hilarious people play this game and don't like quests. Did you read the title of the game you play? "Ever-Quest"</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No offence but that's silly. I'm not always questing, some times I'm crafting, wandering about, killing just for xp, or just talking to guildies. By your rational, if we were to follow the name to the letter, I should always (ever) be questing (quest). So they would have designed a game where I have no choice but to be ever questing.</P>

[Xarov]

<P>Lol now we are playing EverWoW, might as well take off the rpg portion and just leave it as MMO, if people cant see the stupidity in the removal of these access quests then i dunno, i guess true MMORPG's arent for you </P> <P>( im still searching for one myself but for now ill play this lol&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P>

[Kenazeer]

<blockquote><hr>Xarovix wrote:<div></div> <p>Lol now we are playing EverWoW, might as well take off the rpg portion and just leave it as MMO, if people cant see the stupidity in the removal of these access quests then i dunno, i guess true MMORPG's arent for you </p> <p>( im still searching for one myself but for now ill play this lol&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><hr></blockquote>The crassness of some people is just amazing. If we don't agree with you we are stupid, or not worthy of finding MMORPGS fun? Hilarious. I rarely say this, but if this change drives off people with your mindset and shallow pov it would be for the best.<div></div>

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kenazeer wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xarovix wrote:<BR> <P>Lol now we are playing EverWoW, might as well take off the rpg portion and just leave it as MMO, if people cant see the stupidity in the removal of these access quests then i dunno, i guess true MMORPG's arent for you</P> <P>( im still searching for one myself but for now ill play this lol&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The crassness of some people is just amazing. If we don't agree with you we are stupid, or not worthy of finding MMORPGS fun? Hilarious. I rarely say this, but if this change drives off people with your mindset and shallow pov it would be for the best.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Kenazeer can you explain to me the correlation between WoW, removing access quests, and removing the acronym rpg? Is he saying that access quests added a great deal of role playing elements and that no one role plays in WoW? Or is he alluding that the removal of access quests makes the game easier and more WoW-esque, well then he doesn't understand the acronym RPG, so his insults are dubious at best.

[Turb]

I did the Access Quests for each zone as and when I needed to get into them. Some of them took a while, but none were too hard. Just a metter of time. I enjoyed most of them. CoD access was fun for example. I say leave the AQs in, and reduce timers where necessary, though CoD and CoI both have perfectly fine spawn rates. Both are also HQ zones, so there shouold be something special about them.I think it is 'dumbing down'. It's a shame. I have alts who are doing the quests and they are a challenge and more rewarding for doing them.

[SG_01]

Well, I havn't read every reply in this topic, but just wanted to add my 2c. I loved doing AQs, and I have done many of them. Quite a number of them, I have found, seem a bit definitive. When you do it, and look at what they actualy have to say, it's like you discover an entrance that is, afterwords, left open. Not all of them follow this line, some actually make you prove your worth before enterring, but a lot of them do. As such the removal of these access quests as a necesity seems logical, and I'm looking forward to doing new access quests in the future.

[FreaklyCreak]

<P>WHY WOULD YOU NOT FARM CoI? lol</P> <P>Two master chests EVERY time. AA exp from Varsoon the first time. You have a really nice chance of getting fabled gear to drop to. The zone access is SO freaking EASY, you killed three mobs and you gain instance access without having to zone out to goto the NPC again! </P> <P>But I have to agree with CoD. The AQ is long. BUT if your a huge lore buff lover like me, then you will do it like I did. The stormsunder information was really interesting =D</P>