Why nerf pets ? Cant you nerf us?

[MrFlob]

<DIV>As you may quess im a nec and seeing these changes on test makes me wonder , why pets? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pets are the core of necs/conjues , yes i know nec/conj dps is high so why cant the spells that nec/conjus have be lowered why are the pet abilities lowered , making us more and more to resemble half wizzys ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>CoV Mastermind class got the core of pet class essence captured nicely in my opinion , they get few own dps spells and more buffs /heals /ect for his main dps/protection aka pets </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So now im asking /halfly petitioning could you change plans and decrease spell dps from the caster and let pets be?</DIV>

[nitrous]

I agree.   Why reduce the ability of the pet.   The pet is what defines the Conj/Necro. 

[mylin1]

yeah the CoV mastermind is a very cool charcter to play - really my conj would swap dots and dd and aoe for more pets in a flash. I  even love the dumbfire pets, thats why i made a pet class, for the pets!scary i knowMylin<div></div>

[retro_guy]

I hope in all this conj's get a second pet heal, because we're going to need it. 1 feeble heal is just not going to cut it. <div></div>

[Sarkoris]

<P>Okay - fill me in. Nothing was mentioned in LU24 patch notes on pets so what has happened to them. Lower ca damage, lower auto attack damage or lower hp of pets, or my guess, all 3 ?</P> <P>Sark.</P>

[retro_guy]

<div><a href="message?board.id=combat&message.id=102725#M102725" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=102725#M102725</a></div> <div> </div> <strong><font color="#ffff00">Summoner Balance</font></strong>Currently, Conjurers and Necromancers are a very powerful class that can deliver the most consistent damage in the shortest amount of time and can solo more powerful encounters than most other classes. One of the problems is that their single target damage can exceed that of Wizards in solo, group, and raid situations, even when hostile area effect damage is considered that can kill swarm and dumbfire pets. The next test update decreases the effectiveness of certain pet abilities and buffs that were overpowered. These changes don't necessarily mean that Wizards are always supposed to outdamage Summoners. Summoners can have favorable situations in long fights without large area effects that can tip the scales in their favor above Wizards. It shouldn't be the case anymore that Summoners outdamage Wizards the majority of the time after these changes, and Summoners will still retain relatively powerful soloability even after these changes.<div></div>

[Sarkoris]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> retro_guy wrote:<BR> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=102725#M102725" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=102725#M102725</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>Summoner Balance<BR><BR></FONT></STRONG>Currently, Conjurers and Necromancers are a very powerful class that can deliver the most consistent damage in the shortest amount of time and can solo more powerful encounters than most other classes. One of the problems is that their single target damage can exceed that of Wizards in solo, group, and raid situations, even when hostile area effect damage is considered that can kill swarm and dumbfire pets.<BR><BR>The next test update decreases the effectiveness of certain pet abilities and buffs that were overpowered. These changes don't necessarily mean that Wizards are always supposed to outdamage Summoners. Summoners can have favorable situations in long fights without large area effects that can tip the scales in their favor above Wizards. It shouldn't be the case anymore that Summoners outdamage Wizards the majority of the time after these changes, and Summoners will still retain relatively powerful soloability even after these changes. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Thanks for that but what I was more looking for is hard figures. Does someone who has a high level summoner on test have the ability to possess their pet and post some pics or figures on how much of a nerf we are talking here ? Are these changes on test now, if so why only mentioned in a post and not in the lu 24 notes ? If on test I will get a char over there and see how much the damage/hp has dropped.</P> <P>Sark.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Sarkoris on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:23 AM</span>

[TheSlashman]

<DIV>Glad you  guys dont mention warlocks.. Guess we are way out of the picture on dps ..[Removed for Content]..  LU13+ ftw.. yehoo.. go SOE.. do some more nerfing.. you will keep the folks logging on...</DIV>

[Steven9]

I agree. I have a 55 nec on pvp server and if my pet wasnt strong i would die w/o getting anything off. Pet is the only thing necs have for pvp and all pve changes come to pvp servers making us worst. I also got a 60conj on pve servers and hate him. I use to love conjs b4 LU 13 now i fear to like him because when we petters are happy a nerf is on the way... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I guess soe doesnt realize that conjs pet does so much dmg because soe gave us 2 uber dmg procs and also planar shift. Now i would rather soe take away the petter classes compeletely then just making us weaker and weaker each update till nothing is left. Why soe do you like toying with us its us who pay them :/<p>Message Edited by Steven987 on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:37 PM</span>

[retro_guy]

<blockquote><hr>Steven987 wrote:I agree. I have a 55 nec on pvp server and if my pet wasnt strong i would die w/o getting anything off. Pet is the only thing necs have for pvp and all pve changes come to pvp servers making us worst. I also got a 60conj on pve servers and hate him. I use to love conjs b4 LU 13 now i fear to like him because when we petters are happy a nerf is on the way... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I guess soe doesnt realize that conjs pet does so much dmg because soe gave us 2 uber dmg procs and also planar shift. Now i would rather soe take away the petter classes compeletely then just making us weaker and weaker each update till nothing is left. Why soe do you like toying with us its us who pay them :/<p>Message Edited by Steven987 on <span class="date_text">05-11-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:37 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Funny, I love my conj after LU13, it was more powerful and usable than ever, then our power was reduced and tweaked - the pet taunts reduced, still I felt the balance was really good, now, but I guess the figures can't lie. Looks like I'll now HAVE to be fully fabled and mastered to continue to solo anything worthwhile. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Robaidh]

Nerfing Necros/Conj is unwarranted and unneeded. The reason for their current good playability is that they actually created a well balanced class that can consistently use all of its abilities without fear of drawing immediate aggro. What is needed is actually fixing the other mage classes instead of screwing up the one they got right. Wizzies main dps is in that fat 10000+ pt nuke they have which due to fear of drawing aggro in raids and grp they typically hold back on using till necessary which causes Necros to usually outdamage them on raids when parsing cause Necros whose top attack is only 1600+ can use all of their dots, LTs, and pets consistently without holding back. The problem in comparing the classes is not necro or conj pets. The problem is that wizzies and other mages cannot use all of their spells all of the time due to poor design that causes them to become aggro targets if they use their main dps spell for their class that all their dps is tied into. If a wizzie uses his 10k nuke and all of his abilities on any one round they outdamage a Necro EVERY time. You shouldn't be nerfing a class that is properly balanced cause someone else has to hold back. Fix the other dang class. Make the main nuke for the wizzie something smaller and castable more often so they can use it consistently without fear of drawing immediate aggro. Proof of what I am saying is the fact that alot of wizzies actually have to make a macro that texts a warning so that the tank and healer know he is about to cast the 10000 pt nuke to prepare for the aggro switch. It's not summoners' fault that all the wizzies dps is in a spell he cant use consistently. So poor design of another class means now that you destroy the one you actually balanced right ? Fixes are in need here not nerf bats.

[Jal]

Go to the necro boards and read Deila's summary of whats on test. Honestly it doesnt sound gamebreaking it literally is just a balance pass.

[Bhagpuss]

I play a 33rd Necro on Test. So far I can't even see any difference. Whatever has changed is either very marginal or affects some aspect of Necromancy that I don't use in my personal playstyle.

[Solaran_X]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bhagpuss wrote:<BR>I play a 33rd Necro on Test. So far I can't even see any difference. Whatever has changed is either very marginal or affects some aspect of Necromancy that I don't use in my personal playstyle.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>They said the changes aren't really visible until 50+. But here is the skinny:</P> <P>10-15% damage reduction on the Assassin-pet CAs (except Shadowy Garrote - no damage reduction there, but the stifle was changed) and a 25% auto attack DPS reduction (the native DPS Mod the Assassin-pet used to have is gone).</P> <P>The tank pet had Graven Frenzy's damage reduced. That CA has been the lifesaver for many Necros - once their pet starts losing aggro, it's usually Graven Frenzy with it's triple hit and root that snaps aggro back on to the pet. But with the damage reduced, it's going to be harder to get the tank pet to hold aggro.</P> <P>No change to the Mage pet just yet...but we've only seen TU24a. TU24b could change the Mage pet as well.</P> <P>Howl of the Damned (pet Offensive stance) actually got a boost, and I'll assume all other versions did. So we aren't getting 100% nerfed in LU24...just mostly. They did throw us one bone.</P> <P>Root: Duration dropped from 1 minute 5 seconds to 30 seconds. Recast and cast remain the same.</P> <P>Fear: Duration dropped from 18 seconds to 16 seconds. Recast upped to 45 seconds from 30 seconds and cast remains the same.</P> <P>Stun: Duration dropped from 7.5 seconds to 5 seconds. Recast upped to 45 seconds from 30 seconds and the cast reduced to 1.5 seconds from 3 seconds.</P> <P>All my information is based on information from a L70 Necromancer on Test, using Adept III spells.</P> <P>The worst in my opinion is the change to stun and root. This is going to make it harder for me, a L70 Necromancer with 100% Ad3+ used, to solo certain green con Heroic named. The named in question are extremely underconned, and it was 50/50 for me anyways trying to kill them with my pets and DoTs. The only way I could do it reliably was 'root 'n shoot'. But with the duration of root now being less than the refresh of the stun means I'll need to root an extra time between stun/nuke/root sets. Plus the reduced duration of stun makes it harder to cast Abate Life and reroot in the aloted time. And with the longer refresh on stun, it's going to make these fights (already in excess of 10 minutes) take 50% longer (now going to be in excess of 15 minutes).</P>

[swedago]

<P>Some of you do not get it.  There is not going to be a nerf on the Epic MOBs that were scaled to a raid WITH summoners pre-nerf.  </P> <P>Summoners DO the top DPS on Epic MOBs..  Big deal.  All the other dps classes can easily out DPS Summoners on NON-Epic MOBs.  All this did was just reduce your raid success rates.</P>

[Slaymacht]

<DIV>Exactly swedago, boggles my mind why someone would want to decrease dmg done to raid mobs, just so they can see their name at the top of a parser.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Shirodan]

I don't raid, so I just couldn't care less about all the people who 'aparently' are whining that summoners are on the top of the parser list. The summoners  ability to solo and function in groups should not be affected in anyway, I don't know how you would implement that, but I'm sure you could come up with something.

[RallyVale]

<blockquote><hr>swedago wrote:<div></div> <p>Some of you do not get it.  There is not going to be a nerf on the Epic MOBs that were scaled to a raid WITH summoners pre-nerf.  </p> <p>Summoners DO the top DPS on Epic MOBs..  Big deal.  All the other dps classes can easily out DPS Summoners on NON-Epic MOBs.  All this did was just reduce your raid success rates.</p><hr></blockquote>Is this really the only reason? Classes that do steady damage always outdamage burst classes in long fights, in every game I know of. You know, turtle will eventually win the race and all. Why would you try to fix that?<div></div>

[kenji]

<DIV>because SoE doesnt understand whats burst dmg is <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>best DPS class should have a 1000 dps spell </DIV> <DIV>2nd DPS class should have a 900 dps spell</DIV> <DIV>3rd DPS class should have a 800, and so on.</DIV> <DIV>all classes have the same power cost and cast / recast timer.</DIV>

[FreaklyCreak]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> swedago wrote:<BR> <P>Some of you do not get it.  There is not going to be a nerf on the Epic MOBs that were scaled to a raid WITH summoners pre-nerf.  </P> <P>Summoners DO the top DPS on Epic MOBs..  Big deal.  All the other dps classes can easily out DPS Summoners on NON-Epic MOBs.  All this did was just reduce your raid success rates.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If that was so why not just make the epics more resistant to the types of damage they do. Wait necro = Warlock damage types, conj = wizzie damage type.....[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] that would nerf them more...poor warlocks and wizzies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>See if they wanted to make epics harder they would make them harder. They wouldn't (i would think so atleast) do a nerf.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all I agree with the changes to a point. (having a 57 conj myself.).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is what I think should happen and all that needs to hapen. Ok taking into account the new monster stun/stifle etc control system we just need a 15%(maybe 18%...because you gotta admit a adept3 or master1 scout do freaking ungodly damage) damage reduction on our scout pets OVER ALL. No reduction on mage pets, they have freaking low HP and one or two AE spells have them down. And because SoE was an idiot and made the mage go in to melee along with its spells we have to worry about it going over and meleeing a mob that has a damage shield. Tank pets need a base HP reduction of 15% hp. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Those things I WHOLE HARDEDLY and totally thing would make  summoner farmers, summoner heroic tanking, and summoner soloing harder.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But these changes I purpose would not destroy our class nor make it war hard to solo. They balance it to a point where we dont do so much DAMAGE, since that was our given reason, on epic mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Something I want to give to your attention. We have to watch out pets extreamly well in groups, if our scout gets aggro and dies we WILL DIE. Even with taunts and rescure we accure ALL the hate they generated when they we're in exsistance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know I don't apprciate this nerf. But I'm not aware of it's specifics so I'm not mad or angry or ready to change classes or anything. Even if I get badly nerfed I wont quit. I'm commited to this game for my hobby, and will remain a loyal player...sigh</DIV>

[Proud]

<DIV>LOL this is getting dumb.....   why change a class and let it play for 10-20 lvls  and then say oppppsss.....   im sorry i gave u to much power now im going to take it away.  I can see  making a mistake and fixing it but not after a large amount of time where ppl have gotten use to it and expect it.   As for raiding LOL might as well nerf the pets maybe less people would go the loot these days  on raids is extrememly rare anyways so you could save some the fustration.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all sony I have been a very loyal player to eq and eq2 but what i see on our server says eq2 is going down (people leaveing all the time guilds folding because they cant keep classes needed,  lots complaining  its hard to find groups  ......&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  and now u are going to nerf somemore.   well good luck to ya because i think its luck u need!</DIV>

[Murazor_AB]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Proud wrote:<BR> <DIV>LOL this is getting dumb.....   why change a class and let it play for 10-20 lvls  and then say oppppsss.....   im sorry i gave u to much power now im going to take it away.  I can see  making a mistake and fixing it but not after a large amount of time where ppl have gotten use to it and expect it.   As for raiding LOL might as well nerf the pets maybe less people would go the loot these days  on raids is extrememly rare anyways so you could save some the fustration.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all sony I have been a very loyal player to eq and eq2 but what i see on our server says eq2 is going down (people leaveing all the time guilds folding because they cant keep classes needed,  lots complaining  its hard to find groups  ......&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  and now u are going to nerf somemore.   well good luck to ya because i think its luck u need!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Heres why ... because its broken .... Summoners are insanely powerful dps-wise and also have great utility. On almost all of our raids, you know who is top dps? Its not the necro, its the necros freaking pet.</P> <P>This seems fair to you? Remember live update #19? Summoners were supposed to be T2 dps with dps pet and T3 with tank pet ... I am thinking this change probably will not go far enough to restore summoners to their intended palce in the heirarchy.</P>

[Etherium]

It is becoming tiresome for the 86% of the players who do not raid have to pay the price for the success of the minority that does. 

[Pins]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Murazor_AB wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Proud wrote:<BR> <DIV>LOL this is getting dumb.....   why change a class and let it play for 10-20 lvls  and then say oppppsss.....   im sorry i gave u to much power now im going to take it away.  I can see  making a mistake and fixing it but not after a large amount of time where ppl have gotten use to it and expect it.   As for raiding LOL might as well nerf the pets maybe less people would go the loot these days  on raids is extrememly rare anyways so you could save some the fustration.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all sony I have been a very loyal player to eq and eq2 but what i see on our server says eq2 is going down (people leaveing all the time guilds folding because they cant keep classes needed,  lots complaining  its hard to find groups  ......&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  and now u are going to nerf somemore.   well good luck to ya because i think its luck u need!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Heres why ... because its broken .... Summoners are insanely powerful dps-wise and also have great utility. On almost all of our raids, you know who is top dps? Its not the necro, its the necros freaking pet.</P> <P>This seems fair to you? Remember live update #19? Summoners were supposed to be T2 dps with dps pet and T3 with tank pet ... I am thinking this change probably will not go far enough to restore summoners to their intended palce in the heirarchy.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It is getting tiresome that people continually say summoners have "great utility".  Well, they don't have "great" utility, they have utility as good as any sorceror.  Yes their damage is a tad high, but why nerf their damage and not help them in the other areas of the game where they are lacking for being a T2 class?  Which seems to be supposed to be a debuffing class to either give more damage to everybody else or to lower the damage that the tank is taking.  But, only half of T2 seems to do that, while the other half kinda just does DPS.

[Solaran_X]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Murazor_AB wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Proud wrote:<BR> <DIV>LOL this is getting dumb.....   why change a class and let it play for 10-20 lvls  and then say oppppsss.....   im sorry i gave u to much power now im going to take it away.  I can see  making a mistake and fixing it but not after a large amount of time where ppl have gotten use to it and expect it.   As for raiding LOL might as well nerf the pets maybe less people would go the loot these days  on raids is extrememly rare anyways so you could save some the fustration.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all sony I have been a very loyal player to eq and eq2 but what i see on our server says eq2 is going down (people leaveing all the time guilds folding because they cant keep classes needed,  lots complaining  its hard to find groups  ......&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  and now u are going to nerf somemore.   well good luck to ya because i think its luck u need!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Heres why ... because its broken .... Summoners are insanely powerful dps-wise and <STRONG>also have great utility</STRONG>. On almost all of our raids, you know who is top dps? Its not the necro, its the necros freaking pet.</P> <P>This seems fair to you? Remember live update #19? Summoners were supposed to be T2 dps with dps pet and T3 with tank pet ... I am thinking this change probably will not go far enough to restore summoners to their intended palce in the heirarchy.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If both Conjurors and Necromancers had 'Summoner utility', we'd be uber. But as it is, we each only have half of 'Summoner utility'. People keep lumping Necromancers and Conjurors together, and putting their combined utility against the utility of one class - Wizards. Of course two classes combined will supply more utility than one class.</P> <P>But seperate, Wizard utility far outshines the utility of Necromancers or Conjurors in a one-on-one comparison.</P> <P>And as for DPS...we have 'insanely powerful' DPS in only one situation - long fights (in excess of one minute) against non-PBAoEing mobs with minimal or no resistance/immunity to disease and poison (for Necromancers) or heat and cold (for Conjurors). In every solo, group, and raid trash situation - guess who is #1 for DPS? </P> <P>...</P> <P>Wizards and Warlocks. </P> <P>And how much of this game is comprised of solo, group, and raid trash situations? How much of this game is comprised of 1 minute+ fights?<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Solaran_X on <span class=date_text>05-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:33 PM</span>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>MrFlob wrote:<div>As you may quess im a nec and seeing these changes on test makes me wonder , why pets? </div> <div> </div> <div>Pets are the core of necs/conjues , yes i know nec/conj dps is high so why cant the spells that nec/conjus have be lowered why are the pet abilities lowered , making us more and more to resemble half wizzys ...</div> <div> </div> <div>CoV Mastermind class got the core of pet class essence captured nicely in my opinion , they get few own dps spells and more buffs /heals /ect for his main dps/protection aka pets </div> <div> </div> <div>So now im asking /halfly petitioning could you change plans and decrease spell dps from the caster and let pets be?</div><hr>I think they should take all offensive spells from the summoner classes entirely, everything you do should be from your pet.  All your spells should be modeled around buffing your pet, or your group and not nuking anything.  Its when you add the pets DPS and the summoners DPS that things get silly.But thats just me and I am sure alot of people wouldnt enjoy that .</blockquote></div>

[FreaklyCreak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrFlob wrote:<BR> <DIV>As you may quess im a nec and seeing these changes on test makes me wonder , why pets? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pets are the core of necs/conjues , yes i know nec/conj dps is high so why cant the spells that nec/conjus have be lowered why are the pet abilities lowered , making us more and more to resemble half wizzys ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>CoV Mastermind class got the core of pet class essence captured nicely in my opinion , they get few own dps spells and more buffs /heals /ect for his main dps/protection aka pets </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So now im asking /halfly petitioning could you change plans and decrease spell dps from the caster and let pets be?</DIV><BR> <HR> I think they should take all offensive spells from the summoner classes entirely, everything you do should be from your pet.  All your spells should be modeled around buffing your pet, or your group and not nuking anything.  Its when you add the pets DPS and the summoners DPS that things get silly.<BR><BR>But thats just me and I am sure alot of people wouldnt enjoy that .<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If they do that then soloing risk goes up 100% more. Even with root, because of the root changes.</P> <P>Pet dies, what do I do? Root and sit there? Root and resummon and keep rooting till the pet takes back equal or more hate then the last pet because the hate from the last pet was dumped on me?</P> <P>I mean this in no offence at all but it sounds like you havent played a summoner or played one enough to know how it really is higher level. </P> <P>If your playing high level and questing you want to get quest done fast to get the EXP and more lore read(im a lore fanatic, hehe) in less time so you use the scout pet on offence or defence or the tank on offence. Doing these pets with these stances can be risky and you need to be able to have a little dps in order to finish off mobs so that you can protect your self from dying after the pet is dead.<BR></P>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>FreaklyCreak wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Sirlutt wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> MrFlob wrote: <div>As you may quess im a nec and seeing these changes on test makes me wonder , why pets? </div> <div> </div> <div>Pets are the core of necs/conjues , yes i know nec/conj dps is high so why cant the spells that nec/conjus have be lowered why are the pet abilities lowered , making us more and more to resemble half wizzys ...</div> <div> </div> <div>CoV Mastermind class got the core of pet class essence captured nicely in my opinion , they get few own dps spells and more buffs /heals /ect for his main dps/protection aka pets </div> <div> </div> <div>So now im asking /halfly petitioning could you change plans and decrease spell dps from the caster and let pets be?</div> <hr> I think they should take all offensive spells from the summoner classes entirely, everything you do should be from your pet.  All your spells should be modeled around buffing your pet, or your group and not nuking anything.  Its when you add the pets DPS and the summoners DPS that things get silly.But thats just me and I am sure alot of people wouldnt enjoy that .</blockquote></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>If they do that then soloing risk goes up 100% more. Even with root, because of the root changes.</p> <p>Pet dies, what do I do? Root and sit there? Root and resummon and keep rooting till the pet takes back equal or more hate then the last pet because the hate from the last pet was dumped on me?</p> <p>I mean this in no offence at all but it sounds like you havent played a summoner or played one enough to know how it really is higher level. </p> <p>If your playing high level and questing you want to get quest done fast to get the EXP and more lore read(im a lore fanatic, hehe) in less time so you use the scout pet on offence or defence or the tank on offence. Doing these pets with these stances can be risky and you need to be able to have a little dps in order to finish off mobs so that you can protect your self from dying after the pet is dead.</p><hr></blockquote>i'm more looking at it from the aspect of summoner+pet DPS is WAY above what other classes can do.. i've seen it many times in many situations.. not just in raids.. its a raw idea.. with not alot of details but mainly i'm suggesting if sumoners are about pets, then make them REALLY about pets.. beef up the pets a bit, or more importantly give the summoner a larger range of abilities to impart to their pet.. and remove the summoners DD as being a major part of their DPS.. as for playingone.. your right i dont play one at higher levels.. i have a lvl 24 conj that i tool around on and kill time sometimes.. i've played most classes to lvl 25 at least and find the conj/necro to be alot of fun, much like i found my Ranger to be alot of fun.  thats generally a sign that they are over powered.. lol.. like the old saying goes..if momma aint happy, aint no body happy.. in this case "momma" is played by the wizards/warlocks .. if they arent happy they will work on highlighitn all the classes that need to be nerf'd so everyone is as nhappy as they are <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Geakor]

Even the uber of the uberst of classes complaining.. WOW

[Bunkst]

As a retired Ranger I feal your pain guys and am terribly sorry, I think all roots/stun type abilities are getting nerfed a bit in this next update, I know the Scouts Cheap Shot has been reduced as well as Rangers Point Blank Shot.

[Braw]

<DIV>Because the pet is out damaging the tier 2 and 3 dps'ers, not the summoner.</DIV>

[Braw]

<DIV>And since when shoud something overpowered be left alone just because "its the core of the class", if a ranger could 2 shot a raid boss with a bow should it be left alone cause "bows are part of the rangers core class" </DIV>

[Gorhauth]

<div><blockquote><hr>Geakor wrote:Even the uber of the uberst of classes complaining.. WOW<hr></blockquote>Says the Bruiser who is crying about nerfs in his own forum.  The irony is staggering.</div>

[Malandrin]

<DIV>You got it: huge nerf to pets and huge nerf to summoners</DIV>

[Cabose]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Murazor_AB wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Proud wrote:<BR> <DIV>LOL this is getting dumb.....   why change a class and let it play for 10-20 lvls  and then say oppppsss.....   im sorry i gave u to much power now im going to take it away.  I can see  making a mistake and fixing it but not after a large amount of time where ppl have gotten use to it and expect it.   As for raiding LOL might as well nerf the pets maybe less people would go the loot these days  on raids is extrememly rare anyways so you could save some the fustration.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all sony I have been a very loyal player to eq and eq2 but what i see on our server says eq2 is going down (people leaveing all the time guilds folding because they cant keep classes needed,  lots complaining  its hard to find groups  ......&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  and now u are going to nerf somemore.   well good luck to ya because i think its luck u need!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Heres why ... because its broken .... Summoners are insanely powerful dps-wise and also have great utility. On almost all of our raids, you know who is top dps? Its not the necro, its the necros freaking pet.</P> <P>This seems fair to you? Remember live update #19? Summoners were supposed to be T2 dps with dps pet and T3 with tank pet ... I am thinking this change probably will not go far enough to restore summoners to their intended palce in the heirarchy.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>To go with that argument you need to remember they stated they never intended to introduce official dps tiers. It was a concept thats caused more problems than it was meant to solve. <BR><BR>So although, yes, sorcerers SHOULD out dps us, several factors make it almost impossible to tweak us all so we fit inside some nice shiny box. I will continue to out DPS sorcerers even after the changes, even if its harder and I do it less frequently. I know this wont satisfy anyone though, the complaints will continue as long as conjurors are a considerably playable class. </P><p>Message Edited by Cabose on <span class=date_text>05-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:55 PM</span>

[Cabose]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Deila wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>I wish that those damned DPS tiers had never been posted by the devs. <HR> <P></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Get in line, buddy. <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" width=16 border=0></P> <P>I said as much on a panel at FanFaire. While meant to be generally helpful, that post ended up being unintentionally misleading and has been used as evidence in all kinds of arguments when it absolutely shouldn't be.</P> <P>Why? Because there are simply far too many variables when it comes to DPS to ever produce an accurate list that would be applicable all the time. Consider just some of the factors that can and do have a major influence on the DPS a character can do:</P> <UL> <LI>Level <LI>Spell/art quality <LI>Gear <LI>Which other classes you're grouped with <LI>Type of mob you're fighting <LI>Level of mob you're fighting <LI>Tier of mob you're fighting <LI>Player skill <LI>Player attentiveness <LI>Whether or not spells/arts have refreshed <LI>When you receive a major spell/art upgrade as opposed to another class <LI>Random luck</LI></UL> <P>As we have said before, we have server logs every day on the actual DPS that players do. It breaks it down for us into charts by class, level, and group size. Some of you are probably working under the assumption that classes maintain their relative position most of the time, believing that necros might go down a notch or two at some levels while another class goes up, but overall staying much the same.</P> <P>That is a completely incorrect assumption. There can be major swings by the same class from level to level and from soloing to a full group. That's not an indication that anything is wrong; rather, it shows how much everyone around you can affect the DPS you do.</P> <P>We didn't set out to fit classes into DPS tiers based only on solo play or only on group play or only on raid play. The tiers I listed were meant to give a general, overall, gamewide kind of overview of how the classes compared. Instead, some people parse how they did in very specific situations and use my post as proof that something is wrong.</P> <P>It doesn't work that way. Because if you had been grouped with characters A, B, and C instead of X and Y, your results could have been quite different.</P> <P>It is natural for people to try to eliminate as many variables as possible to accumulate data, and thus many people post solo parses as proof of one thing or another. But I never claimed that my original post was about how well each class could solo, just as it wasn't about how well each one does in a group. It was meant to illustrate in general how classes compare in potential DPS across the course of the game so that people could use that information as part (and only part) of their character development process.</P> <P>I'd take the post back if I could, if only because it presents a very, very general picture when what many of the people on this board want is specifics. Sorry, but we don't plan on releasing the amount of data that would be required for everyone to be able to prove their point in every possible situation.</P> <P>EverQuest II isn't a spreadsheet; it is a game played by a wide variety of individuals who play in a myriad of different ways. To say "class X will always be thus" would be far, far too limiting and would vainly try to remove the most important variable of all: the players themselves.</P> <P>===========================<BR>Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard<BR>Game Designer, EverQuest II </P>