Keep nerfing bards and there wont be anymore left

[TwistedFaith]

Seriously SoE REALLY needs to start spending some time on this vastly underplayed class, the huge series of nerfs to them in the next update really isnt what these classes need.

[Cuz]

<DIV>I feel bad postin the same thing a few times, but whatever:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sometime ago they mentioned that they were going to implement a use for the craftable instruments, it's also rumoured that the TS revamp will be hitting this LU eventually. Hmmmm. Maybe we'll get to see the EQ2 version of twisting?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still won't make an 8 second charm any good though :p</DIV>

[TwistedFaith]

<blockquote><hr>Jenoy wrote:<DIV>I feel bad postin the same thing a few times, but whatever:</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Sometime ago they mentioned that they were going to implement a use for the craftable instruments, it's also rumoured that the TS revamp will be hitting this LU eventually. Hmmmm. Maybe we'll get to see the EQ2 version of twisting?</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Still won't make an 8 second charm any good though :p</DIV><hr></blockquote>you feel bad, dude I am trying to level up a woodworker just on that promise that bards will be able to use muscial instruments and they will have a purpose.I dont know the whole thing is a mess, bards are so underplayed you'd think SoE would give them something rather than taking away from them all the time.

[Rast]

I really don't know, I quite trying to decifer their logic to game design a while back...  It is easier to not be disappointed when you have no expectations that the game will be either recongizable or playable on a daily basis.

[Lordviperscorpian]

All i have to say is, that these Dirge changes better be some sick joke.  At least give us something in return for the stupid changes you decide to make.  I want to seriously know who said:"Hmm, you know what Bob, i think im going to increase the dirge bow shot recast 5 seconds, and that timb bomb spells they have is obviously way to overpowered, consider that nerfed.  Oh might as well change that fear spell they have to, parses have been showing at least 2 dirges cast it a month.  We need that drastically redused becuase we dont want enchanters thinking other people have CC!"Did SoE hire WoW developers?  That has to be it.  <div></div>

[Belaythien]

"- Scout: Cheap Shot - Reduced power cost. Duration is 4s instead of 6s on standard or weaker opponents.- Dirge: Lanet's Excruciating Scream - Changed into short duration daze effect that causes disease damage when it expires. The amount of damage was reduced. Reuse time increased to 30s.- Dirge: Sapping Shot - Recast time increased to 25s."Do they want to cripple us to a point where we cant solo anything but solo blue mobs?Why the nerf for Lanet's? That was NOT A CONTROL SPELL and now they turn it into some useless pile of junk?They seriously have to reconsider their policy. You can't simply nerf players from patch to patch. We play this game because we want to have our FUN and not because we want to see things taken away from us. If SOE isn't capable of establishing a working game system ... why do they punish US?Seriously they'd better add something good in return ... I'm pretty much fed up with that policy. First they make it impossible for me to get Adept 3 Spells because I need Loam and now that? Everything has its limits.At least the CC changes are in line with my view of the game system. Too many exceptions, patches, adjustments, fixes and total make-overs. It's crumbling beneath our feat and they don't know how to stop it. Probably the only reason why there's no lvl 80 in the next expansion is that the game wouldn't work any more *G*

[Blakeavon]

so how long do lullaby and Bria's now last for? and is Reverie hit as well?<div></div>

[mook85az]

Master 1 Rever is now a 20 second duration with a 20 second recast.  Master 1 last charm (can't remember the exact name) is now 8 seconds long, 1 minute recast, full control but still 10% chance to break on damage. <div></div>

[Lordviperscorpian]

Any word on how daze works? Does it break when the mob is hit? I would like to hope and think not...otherwise its worthless, and i master'd that spell for nothing.  If it doesnt break on hit then it could be viable.  I just dont know what to think about the bow attack nerf...if you add 5 seconds, how about adding some damage?  <div></div>

[Hollywood]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Belaythien wrote:<BR><BR>Do they want to cripple us to a point where we cant solo anything but solo blue mobs?<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Wait... we can solo blue mobs now???? :smileywink:<BR>

[Evadne]

I am a 67 dirge on test, the change to cheap shot was more significant than the other changes.  And that change is going to harm Assasins more than dirges.  But, that being said, I can still stun(cheap shot) get behind, sneak and attack, but it leaves no room for error or delay. Nor have I noticed any difference in my ability to solo even con Screamers etc in KOS.I have the master version of Lanets, and I was only using it once a fight anyway....The same with Garsins...So, try not to freak out. I was a bit miffed but overall, I didnt see a huge shift in my abilities.Xeven The Mostly67 dirge of Test~Evadne65 provisioner of Test<div></div>

[SerenityCrushbo]

<DIV>I play my troubador solely for buffing and crowd control.  Througout all the other nerfs, I've beared with it and found a way to adapt, but this affects the heart of my gameplay.  If the changes make it to live as they always do, I will sadly be leaving Norrath my home for almost a decade.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Echo lvl 70 Troubador Crushbone</DIV>

[Cynnigig]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SerenityCrushbone wrote:<BR> <DIV>I play my troubador solely for buffing and crowd control.  Througout all the other nerfs, I've beared with it and found a way to adapt, but this affects the heart of my gameplay. <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It is my impression, that many troubadours feel this way. Crowd control, as stated in our job description in the manual, was a major part of our role. There were different ways to play a troubadour, I think many enjoyed using the crowd control utility to the fullest. If they are taking away this core part of the class, I would find it a proper solution to allow us to /respec into one of the enchanter classes.</P> <P>The only thing which other classes will miss, if all the troubadours /respec or cancel, will be our deaggro buff. That can easily be compensated, by giving swashbucklers or rangers this ability. I am sure some raid guilds are already testing, if you can achieve better results by replacing troubadours with a dps class.</P>

[Gharik]

I've played every archetype, and most every class. Bard was easily the most difficult to solo a mob (or another person) with, and now it's going to be even harder. Well, at least they can run fast, they'll be needing that.   <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Cynnigig]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gharik wrote:<BR>I've played every archetype, and most every class. Bard was easily the most difficult to solo a mob (or another person) with, and now it's going to be even harder. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Actually I felt I could solo quite well, but that was due to regularly using mezz and charm to make up for my lack in dps. It was difficult and took time, but it was a lot of fun. Taking away mezz and charm (both skills are nerfed in such a fashion that they are not really usefull anymore) will more or less remove my solo capabilities. Sure, SOE can counteract this by giving me more personal dps. Taking away my utility and giving me more dps in return is a change to the basics of the troubadour class. If I had wanted to play a scout class with little utility, but with a lot of personal dps, I would not have chosen a troubadour in the first place. I fear we will be turned into some third-rate scout class, which will only be able to find a spot in groups, if none of the other scout classes are available.

[Arondur]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffffff> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">My experience lvling my troub was much the same as Cynngig, it seems.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I can solo pretty well but I used lullaby and charm all the time to slow down the damage I was taking.<SPAN>  </SPAN>My play style is mostly solo or duo with a friend. Sometimes I group up to hit a harder zone, but I never ever raid.<SPAN>  </SPAN>If I had wanted to be a dps only toon I would have rolled a Swashie.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Oh wait, we don’t DPS, my mistake. We won’t CC now We don’t tank.<SPAN>  </SPAN>We don’t heal. Being a one trick pony buffbot isn’t my idea of a good time. </FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Before someone says “well Bards aren’t meant to solo they are a support class.” That was the Challenge, it was harder but do’able to play my bard MY way. If that play style becomes unviable and I don’t raid….. not much is left. Except turn on a buff song or two and /autofollow a group. Then swing by Barnes and Noble for a good book.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#000000><SPAN> </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>

[Lordviperscorpian]

I dont want to do as much DPS as other scouts, as i dont believe thats where we belong on the DPS tree.  I do however think that Bard DPS should be Right under the reast of the scouts.  NOT right next to mystic/templar dps.  Something needs to be done about BARD DPS.  Were not asking to become a DPS machine, were asking to be put back where we belong on the DPS tree.<div></div>

[Kegofbud]

<P>Yeah, the bard DPS was low to begin with, lowering it more is just stupid. I have lost all belief that anyone has an actual vision for this game. It changes every live update, 19 months in.</P> <P> </P>

[Krooner]

<DIV>I have never had a problem soloing with my dirge.  More importantly playing the character was always fun.  BUT it tends to be less fun and more tedious when  they change things on such a constant basis.  I played my guardian up to and past LU13 till all the fun was gone.  Same happens with this toon and I doubt I will be starting over again.  </DIV>

[Graton]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cynnigig wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> SerenityCrushbone wrote: <div>I play my troubador solely for buffing and crowd control.  Througout all the other nerfs, I've beared with it and found a way to adapt, but this affects the heart of my gameplay.  <hr> </div></blockquote> <p>It is my impression, that many troubadours feel this way. Crowd control, as stated in our job description in the manual, was a major part of our role. There were different ways to play a troubadour, I think many enjoyed using the crowd control utility to the fullest. If they are taking away this core part of the class, I would find it a proper solution to allow us to /respec into one of the enchanter classes.</p> <p>The only thing which other classes will miss, if all the troubadours /respec or cancel, will be our deaggro buff. That can easily be compensated, by giving swashbucklers or rangers this ability. I am sure some raid guilds are already testing, if you can achieve better results by replacing troubadours with a dps class.</p><hr></blockquote>that ability is irreplaceable as is maestro. I feel badly for troubs that crowd control is being nerfed but they will still be coveted in any raid situation. the same is true of dirges. they are very few classes that are truly critical to a raid and the dirge is one of them. troubs aren't as critical but they are every dps classes best friend and do more for a dps group than any other buffing class. i'm thrilled when i'm in the troub group and always disappointed when I'm not.</div>

[ecoskii]

<P>I am seriously disappointed with these stupid nerfs - as dirges we have a good role in raids but we will now be even more of an embarrassment in groups and our pedestrian soloing ability is splattered even further.  Why were we viewed as overpowered (!)such that we had to have this SERIES of nerfs applied??????</P>

[SideshowBob]

Old Charm:6 second cast7 minute 30 second duration5 second recast (for when it breaks, which it does VERY often)New Charm:3 second cast8 second duration (Big.F.Deal)60 second recast (Are you <i>serious</i>?!)Whoever came up with the idea to nerf Troubs this badly into oblivion - in addition to the absolute beating the class has taken on every single other 'patch' -  needs to be tarred and feathered, boiled in oil, drawn and quartered, and cursed to the end of eternity. What in god's name were they thinking when they came up with this <b>trash</b>? "Hmmm, let's see...  Troub charm... Let's make it last for 8 seconds, but we'll give them full pet controls for those 8 seconds! Yeah, that sounds sweet!" In 8 seconds, I can barely scoll my mouse over to the pet window before the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing will be over. <i>What's the bloody point</i>?Aside from charm and mez, please tell me a Troub defining role that would make them a desirable class equal to a Dirge who has unlimited almost-instacast rezzes, much better DPS (relative to Troub DPS), and MUCH better soloability? Whoopie, an aggro debuff for the finger waggler group we're shuttled off to during raid time. Yeah, the aggro debuff... Aside from raids when is THAT buff useful, if used at all?In all honesty, I seriously doubt there are ANY game developers that actively play a Troub. If there were, this sick joke of an 'update' would never have made it even to the update notes for testing. And if this piece of dog-doo goes live, I can guarantee you that there will be 1) even fewer Troubs playing this game than there are now (and that's saying a <u>LOT</u>), and 2) the vast majority of us poor saps who can't bear to just up and delete a character they've put so much time and effort into leveling, will be little more than /afk /autofollow BUFFBOTS henceforth with ZERO utility outside deaggro for raids.Yeah, as you can see, I can't say enough bad things about this.<div></div>

[masakre]

<DIV>better yet, why doesnt sony stop nerfing all classes all together? I'd rather they leave the classes that are over powerful, over powerful, rather than weaken the already weak.</DIV><p>Message Edited by masakre on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:28 PM</span>

[Bi]

I stopped playing my troub months ago. He's still lvl 50 ( was my first 50 toon when t5 was max level) I now have 70, 63, 58 and 51 toons, I just can't be bothered logging my troub in :/  If I ever go back I'll be glad I didnt upgrade Charm to ad3 tho <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[mook85az]

<div></div><div></div>Charm is what I did to solo and to help duo's and trio's get somewhere.  Mez was invaluable in group survivability and my own when soloing.  It's how I did it.  After the aria nerf I couldn't solo a blue without a good charm, now I just won't be able to solo.  And I've got better than decent equipment. And I'm at a total loss for what I bring to a group now.  My mana song and deaggro?  Last week we had a ranger tanking because I was on CC duty.  That wouldn't be able to happen now.  At least the bow stifle was left alone.  I guess I can bow stifle on the incoming still. =/ Since I just hit cap I don't have a lot of masters yet.  Guess what the only four master1,2's I have are? Shriek, Aria, Mez, and Charm.  *sign* One of them is still worth something. (Though barely, my friend, a level 40 warlock nukes harder with his ad1 nuke at 200~ int than I do with 492 int at level 70 with my master2) <div></div><p>I'm seriously thinking of betraying to Dirge when this goes live (which it will).  Or I may just quit.  This is my character.  It's not just a toon, it's ME as I exist in EQ2.  I associate myself with him.  And this isn't fun anymore.  I can't just start another character.<span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by mook85az on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:00 PM</span>

[Snublefot]

<P>Please revert the Charm/Mez change. We where not included on the epic changes to them, so why change the mez/charm? I know, most non-bards see our buffs. And love them. But this is core-gameplay changes. Hitting the Troubadour where it hurts most. Its going to take away a lot of the fun in playing this class. And the result will be more then a few Troubadours will be played as dualboxed accounts while the owner is playing some other game. Or just goes fishing.</P> <P>You all know what will happen. They change the mez to 16s duration and eat a muffin. Pure charity, double power, yay!</P>

[reaper_m]

<DIV> <DIV>Maybe it's time we start calling for nerfs on the buffs of every other class (since calling for nerfs seem to work better than actual fixes). After LU24, troubadours will be nothing but buffbots and a mediocre one at that too since several classes have some of our buffs too. Others have mentioned that we should roll with the changes and so maybe we should and aim to be the best buff class there is. So in the spirit of that:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Monk and illusionist haste buff should be taken away. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Coercer dps buff should be taken away.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorceror elemental resist buffs should be reduced. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Chanters shouldn't have any mana regen since they're all about CC now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Chanters spell procs should be reduced to self only.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zerker health regen should be taken away.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Feel free to add to the list. This will ensure that bards in general will remain a desirable class to group with because the way I see it, after LU24, bards aren't even needed anymore. Chanters can do everything we can, mana regen, haste, our dps is comparable. And to top if off, they can CC better. So why even have a bard in the group when you have chanters?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yes, I'm feeling very bitter right now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It would be hilarious if a dev read this and took it seriously.</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by reaper_man on <span class=date_text>05-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:04 PM</span>

[Shadowinajar]

<P>No..realy..that was so unneeded..:womansad:</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>nerf my *fun* spell time bomb, </P> <P>and nerf my ability to debuff agi,</P> <P>make those sapping shot even more useless!!</P> <P> </P> <P>Realy ..only cause <STRONG>some </STRONG>powerplayers min max their chars and are uber Soe sees the need to nerf classes down</P> <P>and make the everage player sick??</P> <P>You upset/loose your customers and damage your reputation more and more if you dont step</P> <P>down with that nerfing/chaneging!</P> <P><STRONG>ONLY change things in dire need to be changed :smileysad: Dirge has been good</STRONG></P> <P>please tell me, how you came to the conclusion it needed to be changed?</P> <P> </P> <P>*shakes head*</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SerenityCrushbone wrote:<BR> <DIV>I play my troubador solely for buffing and crowd control.  Througout all the other nerfs, I've beared with it and found a way to adapt, but this affects the heart of my gameplay.  If the changes make it to live as they always do, I will sadly be leaving Norrath my home for almost a decade.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Echo lvl 70 Troubador Crushbone</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>This has to be the stupidest thing i have seen in a update notes by far.  With the proposed change in charm and mez, what are they giving to the Bard classes? especially the troubadour?  If this goes to live they might as well combine a dirge and troubadour into one class to improve it to the level they had before this massive nerf.  Might as well make a change to paladins and have them restricted to cloth armor as much sense as this proposed change makes.  Please wake up SOE.<BR>

[SorynD]

The one lvl 70 trub we had in our guild read these changes & promply quit the game, really was a bummer & felt for the poor guy. <div></div>

[VericSauvari]

DEVS! We need a response, no more silence with the upcoming castrating of the bards. Troubadors have not gained anything positive since we were turned into caster bots and even then we recieved no acknowledgment of why this is a positive or negative thing. QUIT IGNORING US. do we need to start calling for other class nerfs like a previous poster suggested? it sure seems to work for other classes.

[Shadowinajar]

<P>Ay who the heck called for bard nerfs????</P> <P>we got punished..struggled ...lived with it..now next punch?</P>

[Lordviperscorpian]

Where are the devs! I want answers.  At least tell us the reasoning behind these changes.  WHERE ARE YOU DEVS???<div></div>

[Arondur]

<DIV>I noticed that one Dev did post about a percived change that apparntly isnt true, Jumped all over the OP In fact.  But on Items of Real consern that ARE on TEST and likely to make it to live they are completly silent on.  Admittedly my focus is narrow, I am very upset about the loss of Troub CC abilities.  A 8 second charm is useless and the 20 lullybye only slightly less so.  With those skills I was able to take a group dependant class and solo.  Was not easy but doable. If LU 24 with the changes to Troub charm and Lullyby go thru I will Park my Troub in Qeynos likely never to leave again.  I do not have the time or inclination to raid. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[whitefury]

This Nerf will Make me Reroll That is A FACT!!! <hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div>

[Devira]

<P>when i first read about the 8 second charm i thought it must be an April fool's joke... who the hell thought this piece of drivel up??</P> <P>add me to the list of troubs who will be leaving if this goes live. Previous updates have nerfed us, this just breaks us completely. Playing a troub has always been challenging and that's what i like about the class, but this change will just make life painful. I am a troubador not a masochist.</P> <P>Devira, lvl 62 troub</P>

[Killerbee3000]

i think the best thing they can do after the cc nerf is to make evac instant and remove its reuse timer so bards can use it every time a mob gets close enough to aggro them

[Lukavi]

<blockquote><hr>Note: All of the control spell changes listed here are subject to change before they go live. In fact, since these notes were written based on data from 05/04/06 and Blackguard will be in LA by the time you read this, much of it has changed before even going to Test. The notes should be a lot more sane by next week when he gets back.<hr></blockquote>You guys freak out a little too much.

[Jaimster]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lukavi wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Note: All of the control spell changes listed here are subject to change before they go live. In fact, since these notes were written based on data from 05/04/06 and Blackguard will be in LA by the time you read this, much of it has changed before even going to Test. The notes should be a lot more sane by next week when he gets back.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>You guys freak out a little too much.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The fact that the notes might be wrong doesn't effect what the troubs on test are experiencing/confirming.  LOL actually the test notes suggest they might have done something nice to the Charm... when in fact it's worse than the notes suggest.</DIV>

[Lukavi]

I looked in the test forums and found three posts, including one in this thread, from people on test with bards who say the changes dont really affect themSo I think you guys may be over reacting just a smidge, Id say calm down till you actually play with the changes and see how it affects you

[Oneira]

<blockquote><hr>Lukavi wrote:I looked in the test forums and found three posts, including one in this thread, from people on test with bards who say the changes dont really affect themSo I think you guys may be over reacting just a smidge, Id say calm down till you actually play with the changes and see how it affects you<hr></blockquote> Charm reduced from 8 minutes to 8 seconds?  You figure out if that affects us or not.<div></div>

[Jaimster]

<P>By "Bard" do you mean Dirge or Troubador?  Because I too have read the posts by folks who play Dirges on test saying the changes aren't that bad... on the other hand a few troubadors have essentially confirmed Troubies' worst fears.</P> <P> </P>

[raven0]

Luckily i retired my dirge a couple of months ago. Am very glad i did, and tried out other classes which are more powerful and more fun.Theres no mistake about it, of all the classes i played up to 20, the dirge was by far the weakest class in game. It will get even weaker now. If ppl enjoy their dirges, then fine by me, go play your char. But dont cry about nerfs when u still want to play the weakest class in the game. Its designed weak.<div></div>

[SideshowBob]

<P><STRONG>E3 is over now</STRONG>... Can we <EM>please</EM> get some feedback from a name in red? I know it's asking a lot after a year and a half of absolutely zero Dev posts in the Troub forum, but how about something in the Testing Feedback forum so you all won't have to break your running cycle of ignoring that "other" forum?</P> <P>Why the absolute destruction of the playability for this already beaten-down-into-oblivion class? </P> <P>EVERY SINGLE TROUB, even those who have suffered through all the previous chain-nerfs (myself included), are baffled as to the thought process behind this total gutting of the class -- not to mention the insidious stealth rewrite of the class description on the website. Talk about adding salt to the open wounds...</P> <P>Why the blatant hate? </P> <P>If you want to get rid of this already rarely played class, just make it so the next time we log in we're prompted to select another class. It's certainly a lot less painful than the changes that are currently on Test and it will save 99% of us from having to go through betraying to Dirge.</P> <P>On my server, number of toons from level 60-70 (people that have actually stuck with characters beyond most "dabbling" I figured):</P> <P>Coercer - 50<BR>Brigand - 53<BR>Defiler - 56<BR>Troubadour - 69<BR>Illusionist - 72<BR>Swashbuckler - 73<BR>Dirge - 75<BR>Assassin - 84<BR>Bruiser - 84<BR>Warlock - 92<BR>Mystic - 100<BR>Monk - 107<BR>Warden - 108<BR>Shadow Knight - 114<BR>Inquisitor - 121<BR>Fury - 152<BR>Conjuror - 163<BR>Paladin - 166<BR>Necromancer - 167<BR>Berzerker - 172<BR>Ranger - 176<BR>Guardian - 187<BR>Templar - 194<BR>Wizard - 225</P> <P>You think there might be a reason why so few Troubs exist?  These changes go live, and you can cut that number down to single digits.</P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>It's time someone acknowledged an entire class of people asking for feedback</FONT></STRONG>.</P>