Spongy loams = bad choice for TWO classes.

[StealthM0]

<DIV>I know its been stated elsewhere but here it is in a from the gut shot...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Devs please reconsider this move putting two classes adept 3 spells to the LOWEST DROP RATE rare in the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We all know the ratio of loam>moonstone>acrylia. So then why wasn't two classes placed on acrylia?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As it stands now you are giving a select few a MONOPOLY on the economy. Spongy loam drops WAY WAY TOO INFREQUENTLY to be used for TWO CLASSES ADEPT 3! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are going to put two classes on ANY t7 rare, place two on acrylia. This rare drops far more often and is more affordable. Spongy loam on my server is 5pp+, while an acrylia is barely 1pp if that. Two possible solutions to this both are going to cause controversy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One, place two classes upgrades on acrylia. This is by far the smartest, wisest choice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Two, increase the drop rate of spongy CONSIDERABLY. So that it is on par with acrylia.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Either of those two will work, but the second could start complaints of moonstone users that there rare isnt dropping enough. So do us ALL a favor. Put two classes on acrylia, one on moonstone, one on spongy loam. That way no one rare is stressed by too much demand causing insane inflation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fix this flustercuck please.</DIV><p>Message Edited by StealthM0de on <span class=date_text>05-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:53 PM</span>

[Herculez]

<DIV>Could also consider placing one of the two spongy loam classes on xegonite instead.  I know armor/weapon rares have never before been used for adept spells, but then again all of t7 (and t1 i suppose) are new territory for crafting.  Seems to make sense that if you are gonna split out the distribution of rares to make the various adept spells, you should make it equal on all levels such that 4 classes use 4 rares, instead of 2 classes using 2 rares and 2 classes using 1 rare.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Herculez</DIV> <DIV>lvl 15 Berserker</DIV> <DIV>lvl 67 Armorer</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Qygon</DIV> <DIV>lvl 57 Assassin</DIV> <DIV>lvl 70 Provisioner</DIV><p>Message Edited by Herculez on <span class=date_text>05-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:15 PM</span>

[SpritRaja]

no idea why they made the loams in the first place. Could have just left it as it was before and let all classes use both acrylia and moonstone interchangably in adept 3 crafting. And give Alchemists their own harvest nodes with their own spawn spot back.

[The-Fourm-Pirate]

<P>From what I have seen, both from my mining and my server's adept rare market, Acryllia is the most common by far, going for 1.5pp-95g depending on the seller, Moonstones sell for 2.5pp-1.75pp, still pretty reasonable, loams go for 5pp-3pp, the highest price. IMO switch scouts to Acryllia so the Acryllia prices wouldn't be so cheap, and the loam prices would drop down to reasonable levels so fighters could afford adepts.</P> <P>But I think the best choice would be to go back to the old crafting system, when crafters weren't totally useless, other than scholars for adepts and provisioners for food, maybe tailors for hex dolls.</P><p>Message Edited by The-Fourm-Pirate on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:03 AM</span>

[Huna]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> The-Fourm-Pirate wrote:<BR> <P>From what I have seen, both from my mining and my server's adept rare market, Acryllia is the most common by far, going for 1.5pp-95g depending on the seller, Moonstones sell for 2.5pp-1.75pp, still pretty reasonable, loams go for 5pp-3pp, the highest price. IMO switch scouts to Acryllia so the Acryllia prices wouldn't be so cheap, and the loam prices would drop down to reasonable levels so fighters could afford adepts.</P> <P>But I think the best choice would be to go back to the old crafting system, when crafters weren't totally useless, other than scholars for adepts and provisioners for food, maybe tailors for hex dolls.</P> <P>Message Edited by The-Fourm-Pirate on <SPAN class=date_text>05-11-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:03 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV>Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't fighters the only ones using loam before the change? Before the change the loam were still higher than everything else.  I think there are 2 collection quests that can give moonstone and acrylia, and they are by far more available than loam.  If I could use moonstone or acrylia instead of loam, I could have easily already had all of my T6 adept 3s made.</DIV>

[MyrdalGroenhart]

call me silly but, i dont think any of the rares drop more often then the other. As far as i can tell the number of acrylia doesnt tell anything about how often it is harvested but more about how unwanted they are. since they made crafted acrylia jewelry near to useless. there is no real market for them.I'd love to go back to just being able to buy a (gem) rare and make my adept 3's, that would be by far the best sollution for every class, and solve the price difference between the different gems all in once. but hey the simplest sollustions hardly ever get implemented...Hannu<div></div>

[PlatSt]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MyrdalGroenhart wrote:<BR>call me silly but, i dont think any of the rares drop more often then the other. As far as i can tell the number of acrylia doesnt tell anything about how often it is harvested but more about how unwanted they are. since they made crafted acrylia jewelry near to useless. there is no real market for them.<BR><BR>I'd love to go back to just being able to buy a (gem) rare and make my adept 3's, that would be by far the best sollution for every class, and solve the price difference between the different gems all in once. <BR><BR>but hey the simplest sollustions hardly ever get implemented...<BR><BR>Hannu<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm pretty sure you're right about everything dropping at the same rate.  Of course, chance plays a part in it, but there are probably about the same number of each rare dropping, just different demand.  I also agree about going back to the old method of having them interchangeable.

[MugnMo]

<P>It has nothing do with the "ratio" that a rare is found...it has everything to do with supply and demand.</P> <P>Moonstones, when 3 classes used them, were 4p or so on my server.  Spongy loam was about 1.5p and acrylia was 15g!  There weren't ten times as many acrylia being harvested but there was little demand for them.  </P> <P>When the announcement was made that acrylia was going to be used for mage adepts, prices jumped overnight to 2p or more.  Nothing changed in the "ratio" but the price changed.</P> <P>If you shifted everything so fighters / scouts use acrylia, mages use loams, and priests use moonstones you would see an amazing economical fact...Acrylia would be the most expensive!</P> <P>The only solution here if you wanted balance is have all rares be used by all classes like they were in the past.</P>

[Lord Montague]

Hold up there Mugn!  You mean to tell me you've seen on your server spongy prices BELOW 3 plat?  Before the changes were made to the way adepts are made?  * blinks in disbelief*  I've never seen it that cheap...even when only fighters needed it.

[SwordsEd]

<P>Interesting that even though we are on different servers we are all experiencing the same thing. I was wondering if it was just different on my server (Guk). I have never seen a spongy loam under 4pp...ever...until this morning. They typically range from 5pp-10pp. This was a very frustrating move as it made no sense. In fact, it was the worse move possible.</P> <P>Moonstone and Acrylia DO drop more often. I harvest a lot and I focus on ore. But at the end of a few hours of harvesting, I typically have 2 moonstone, 2 acrylia and NO spongy loam or even xeogonite. Even though I go out of my way to get ore (bypassing other rocks to get to the ore), I don't get the rare from the ore. I don't base the drop rate purely on how much is out there. I experience it EVERY time I go harvest. Since the release of KoS I have harvested 3 spongy loam and 1 xeogonite, despite the 50+ hours I have invested in harvesting (and I dont mean that I harvest while xping). I mean hours of dedicated harvesting. I do most of my harvesting in The Bonemire so it isnt a result of being in an easy zone either.</P> <P>On Guk last night, there were 10 spongy loams for sale..10! There were 77 acrylia plus a ton of jewelry and spells that use that rare. <FONT color=#ff0000>However, they might have heard our pleas...there were 22 spongy loam on the market this morning with the cheapest getting close to 3pp.</FONT></P> <P>I would prefer that we all be on the same rares. That way, we are all in the same boat....same as previous tiers.</P> <P>However, it is too late for that and the only real answer is to increase spongy loam drop rates (hopefully they did). At this point, it wouldnt be fair to other classes to move a new group into their rare market (just as it wasnt fair to us fighters) after the change has taken place. Also, crafters have bought and are trying to sell items based on today's price of that rare.</P>

[Jebaris]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MugnMobs wrote:<BR> <P>If you shifted everything so fighters / scouts use acrylia, mages use loams, and priests use moonstones you would see an amazing economical fact...Acrylia would be the most expensive!</P> <P>The only solution here if you wanted balance is have all rares be used by all classes like they were in the past.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I like the supply/demand but obviously it should be a little more thoughtful in the implementation. Of these two I would go with your first suggestion. If all classes used all rares then why have different rares? Because there are other tradeskills that use these rares aside from spell makers. Jewelry, carpenters, etc have na impact on the supply and demand chain as well. </P> <P> </P>

[Barakuz]

<P>Mugn,</P> <P>Not sure what server you play on but on Kithikor Spongy Loams have alway been the least available and highest price rare...I doubt your server was anything different.</P> <P>The problem might not be supply and demand or the drop rate, it could be there are no safe spots where ores exist "in abundance" (if you can call it that) for even lvl 70 characters to harvest. The exception being the spot in the Temple Grounds in TT.  All other harvestable node types have somewhat safe and abundant locations.</P> <P>Barakuzz</P>

[Graton]

<div><blockquote><hr>MugnMobs wrote:<div></div> <p>It has nothing do with the "ratio" that a rare is found...it has everything to do with supply and demand.</p> <p>Moonstones, when 3 classes used them, were 4p or so on my server.  Spongy loam was about 1.5p and acrylia was 15g!  There weren't ten times as many acrylia being harvested but there was little demand for them.  </p> <p>When the announcement was made that acrylia was going to be used for mage adepts, prices jumped overnight to 2p or more.  Nothing changed in the "ratio" but the price changed.</p> <p>If you shifted everything so fighters / scouts use acrylia, mages use loams, and priests use moonstones you would see an amazing economical fact...Acrylia would be the most expensive!</p> <p>The only solution here if you wanted balance is have all rares be used by all classes like they were in the past.</p><hr></blockquote>no, it's not as simple as that. something is up with the spongy availability and here's why i say that. pre-change, 18 classes used moonstone and 6 used spongey. there's little doubt about which there was more demand for. despite all that on najena the prices for spongey were occasionally higher than moonstone but there really wasn't much difference.this crushes the 'it's demand' theory because there was clearly more demand for moonstone. one alternate idea is that people mined ore less because moonstone was the most needed item. this may be true but many people, myself included, when we go out to mine, mine everything. since KoS i've gotten the following mined rares9 moonstones5 xegonite7 acrylia0 spongey loamNot a big enough sample size to know much but that coupled with the price of spongey relative to moonstone does lead me to believe that it's dropping less frequently. i'm typically loathe to believe such things but with 3 x the demand for moonstone, spongey should have been much cheaper.</div>

[ke'la]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PlatStud wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MyrdalGroenhart wrote:<BR>call me silly but, i dont think any of the rares drop more often then the other. As far as i can tell the number of acrylia doesnt tell anything about how often it is harvested but more about how unwanted they are. since they made crafted acrylia jewelry near to useless. there is no real market for them.<BR><BR>I'd love to go back to just being able to buy a (gem) rare and make my adept 3's, that would be by far the best sollution for every class, and solve the price difference between the different gems all in once.<BR><BR>but hey the simplest sollustions hardly ever get implemented...<BR><BR>Hannu<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm pretty sure you're right about everything dropping at the same rate.  Of course, chance plays a part in it, but there are probably about the same number of each rare dropping, just different demand.  I also agree about going back to the old method of having them interchangeable.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The problem is NOT the Drop rate... its the fact that you can Grey out the atleast one area that you can harevest "Stone" nodes, while there is NO WHERE that Ore Nodes spawn that you can grey out, as such you don't see "harvest bots" harvesting Ore and even people that do harvest Ore, they harvest at a slower rate as you have to deal with the VERY GREEN agro creatures that suround the Nodes.

[Graton]

<div><blockquote><hr>ke'la wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> PlatStud wrote: <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> MyrdalGroenhart wrote:call me silly but, i dont think any of the rares drop more often then the other. As far as i can tell the number of acrylia doesnt tell anything about how often it is harvested but more about how unwanted they are. since they made crafted acrylia jewelry near to useless. there is no real market for them.I'd love to go back to just being able to buy a (gem) rare and make my adept 3's, that would be by far the best sollution for every class, and solve the price difference between the different gems all in once.but hey the simplest sollustions hardly ever get implemented...Hannu <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>I'm pretty sure you're right about everything dropping at the same rate.  Of course, chance plays a part in it, but there are probably about the same number of each rare dropping, just different demand.  I also agree about going back to the old method of having them interchangeable. <hr> </blockquote>The problem is NOT the Drop rate... its the fact that you can Grey out the atleast one area that you can harevest "Stone" nodes, while there is NO WHERE that Ore Nodes spawn that you can grey out, as such you don't see "harvest bots" harvesting Ore and even people that do harvest Ore, they harvest at a slower rate as you have to deal with the VERY GREEN agro creatures that suround the Nodes.<hr></blockquote>that's not true. on temple grounds near the cloud to vultak scavenging site there's a structure with the mining droags where lots of ore spawns. at 70, it's all grey.</div>

[Forsaken Falc]

<DIV>that's not true. on temple grounds near the cloud to vultak scavenging site there's a structure with the mining droags where lots of ore spawns. at 70, it's all grey.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeh, Aswell as the People whom go there on a dayly basic's. each time I run pass there is minium 3 People maxium to 10! there & the odd's with harvesting node's suck's so much You'd might aswell just do what I did and farm You'r way to buy them. (honestly it's faster and I tend to find killing slowly getting aa or exp is far more interesting then clicking rocks hopeing You dont get aggroed and getting [Removed for Content] when You never mine a rare)</DIV>

[demolition tank]

whoe ever decided to put scouts on loams needs to be slaped like a little [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], they are hard enough to get with just fighters after them. Fighters need to be switched to xeganite or something<div></div>

[StealthM0]

<DIV>I thank you all for the civil replies so far cept the above poster hehe).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hopefully by the feedback in this thread we can get the devs to examine the mechanics a little deeper. Or maybe consider making some rare changes (whether that be increased drop rate, or switching the rare for one class to something else). Either way we have voiced our issues in a constructive way and had a healthy debate on it. For that I am thankful the community can come together and address issues with constructive criticism to the devs. Thanks all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now Blackguard, get the dev team responsible for rare harvests to read this please.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>