Rares and Feedback...is it worth it

[Barakuz]

<DIV>Since the anouncement on the test server of the changes to rares i.e. Scouts now use Spongy Loam and Wizzies use Acrylia.</DIV> <DIV>There was a flood of responses where everyone pretty much agreed this was a bad thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what happens a week later, the change is implemented on the live servers.</DIV> <DIV>What exactly is the point of providing feedback, if the majority of the player base doesn't agree with a change - you change it anyway ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As it stands Spongy Loam is the rarest of the rare.</DIV> <DIV>And whats the point in harvesting ores, surrounded by wandering 63 ^^^ heroics, with an aggro radius of approximately 1/2 a mile and when you get luck enough to spend a bit of time on a node - hitting "Found nothing" over and over...and every now and again harvesting "A perfectly cut purple geode" or a "shiny blue sheet" - both items are totally worthless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have harvested for approximately 6 hrs over the past week under the conditions listed above and found nothing - except for loads of geodes and shiny sheets and stacks of the standard raws from the ores. In total over the last month I must have harvested off and on for a total of 30-40 hrs and found, 2 x Spongy loam and a 1 x Xegonite - and I am one of the lucky ones - sheesh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So devs, if you don't want to listen to the community...how about uping the harvest rate of Spongy Loams or doing away with the crappy Geode's and Shiny Sheets...so we don't waste a dice roll.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Barakuzz of the Sore Harvesting Finger - and nothing to show for it</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Rutabegah]

Isn't rare supposed to be like .. oh I don't know .. rare or something?  You want to pull one every node?

[Maroger]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rutabegah wrote:<BR> Isn't rare supposed to be like .. oh I don't know .. rare or something?  You want to pull one every node?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No but you should have a better shot at one than getting nothing after 6 hours -- I mean you do in other zones!!

[Flor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maroger wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rutabegah wrote:<BR> Isn't rare supposed to be like .. oh I don't know .. rare or something?  You want to pull one every node?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No but you should have a better shot at one than getting nothing after 6 hours -- I mean you do in other zones!!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree with you Maroger.  I like rares being rare but not finding one after 6 hours is a bit much.  I haven't gone full throttle harvesing in T7 areas, prefering to level up with T6 material.  But I see frustration coming when I really start to harvest in the T7 zones.  Yikes.

[Elorah]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No but you should have a better shot at one than getting nothing after 6 hours -- I mean you do in other zones!!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>   I have placed maybe about 10 hours in Harvesting T7.  I am a 57 Templar that gets her butt whooped often by these mobs.  You will often see me running and screamin to my Gods to give me the ability to flee from my enemies.  However, I have managed to find 2 moonstones, 1 acrylia, 2 spongy loam, 3 ebony, and 1 Xegonite.  Course there are always the non rare non stacking stuff that is taking up space in my inventory. The Rares are rare, and it is just luck and maybe prayers that get them.</P> <P>  Now as a Carpenter, I am not happy about the Acrylia change.  I enjoyed playing around with it and making much needed rare furniture for friends and customers.  If you want to find something to complain about, try the fact that soooo many months AFTER the release of DoF, Carpenters still have no Rare furniture for that Tier.  I know that it is coming and I am trying to have patience.</P> <P>Just keep harvesting and one day you will be lucky and find more..  :smileyhappy:</P> <P>Elorah</P>

[valkyrja]

I don't know, i feel they listened to the community.  I for one love the change.Means people will start harvesting ore now instead of stone, and you'll see more loam on the market, at a lower cost.  I already noticed 2 farmers on my server last night we're in their normal spot, they were trying to get ore.<div></div>

[Geothe]

<P>It is better now than it was, by far.   3 classes requiring just 1 type for rare for their Adept3s.  And the Same rare being required for mage/priest jewelery, Resist Jewerly, AND carpentry was extreme by far.</P> <P>As for loam being more rare...  I dont' know. give it a week or two.</P> <P>Prior to this change, 75% of all the classes in the entire game needed moonstones for their rare spells, and as a result, Stones were harvested HEAVILY because that is where the greatest demand was, by far.</P> <P>Now that moonstones aren't needed as much, and loams are needed more, the harvesting will swing more towards including a lot more ores now.  So, I'd give it a couple of weeks before you make a final judgement call on things.</P>

[Barakuz]

<P>I hope you are right and the farming of nodes will deliver more Spongies on the broker, and hence drop the price. Isn't it sad when you look forward to the farmers working the game so that regular players can get the items they need at an affordable price <shrug></P> <P>Anyway...go figure, I harvested a Spongy last night after about 10 mins of harvesting. I then proceed to harvest squat for the remaining 2 hrs, except for about 2 geodes and 3 shiney blue sheets.</P> <P>Rutabegah, I have no problem with rares being rare...but 1 per 10hrs i.e. this weeks experience, itsn't rare it's ridiculous.</P> <P>Barakuzz lvl 65 Guardian of the "Got my Spongy rare...only 8 more to go to catch up on my spells"</P>

[valkyrja]

<div><blockquote><hr>Barakuz wrote:<div></div> <p>I hope you are right and the farming of nodes will deliver more Spongies on the broker, and hence drop the price. Isn't it sad when you look forward to the farmers working the game so that regular players can get the items they need at an affordable price <shrug></p> <p>Anyway...go figure, I harvested a Spongy last night after about 10 mins of harvesting. I then proceed to harvest squat for the remaining 2 hrs, except for about 2 geodes and 3 shiney blue sheets.</p> <p>Rutabegah, I have no problem with rares being rare...but 1 per 10hrs i.e. this weeks experience, itsn't rare it's ridiculous.</p> <p>Barakuzz lvl 65 Guardian of the "Got my Spongy rare...only 8 more to go to catch up on my spells"</p><hr></blockquote>If you are harvesting to get rares, you will always feel that way.  If you have made it to T7, you should have noticed by now that you'll get rares in streaks.  You might get 0 in ten hours and 4 in two hours.I have a friend who actually pulled 3 from the same node.</div>

[TofuPatty]

I don't know why they just didn't leave well enough alone and allow all classes adepts to be made from any soft metal rare as it has been in every other tier.  Spongy loams have always run a lot higher in cost and are much less available than moonstones, and shifting 2 classes to using loams will just make the situation worse.  While this is the 2nd day of the changes, a check on the qeynos market on my server is: 53 acrylia clusters for 1.75 to 3p 34 rough moonstones for 2.28 to 3.5p 7 spongy loams for 4-10(!!)p There are a few reasons loams are more rare on the market than soft metals.  Yes gem nodes are foraged more, but there are also a lot more gem nodes that are entirely safe to farm than there are ore nodes that are entirely safe to farm.  Ore nodes can also yield xegonite as well as an item usuable for adepts - and the market for xegonite armor and weapons isn't that big due to good loot drops and quest rewards being available.  Moonstones and acryila are also coming into the game through collection quests, while loams can only come into the game through mining.  I personally have completed the collection for cinder ore on 3 different toons for example. A big problem is the realistic number of uses rares get.  Furniture items aren't that big of a market compared to adept3s, they're really an extravagance item.  I have a large status house, but most people I know don't.  I also try to get skills adept3'd - and most people I know do as well.  The breakdown is each rare has 2 big uses: Spongy loam - fighter and scout adepts Rough moonstone - priest adepts and caster jewelry Acrylia cluster - mage adepts and melee jewelry However, adepts mean roughly 19 or so skills per class, while jewelry means at best 7 item slots.  The only other option for skills are masters, while for jewelry slots there are a lot of quest rewards and drops that can be used instead .  It's pretty uncommon so see someone in a full set of rare t7 jewelry when there are items that are just as good or better than what can be made with t7 rares.  So realistically you have: Spongy loam - 38 uses, only comes into the game from mining and node can also produce xegonite Rough moonstone - 26 uses at best, comes into the game from mining and collections, easier to find safe gem nodes than ore nodes, also produces acrylia Acrylia cluster - 26 uses at best, comes into the game from mining and collections, easier to find safe gem nodes than ore nodes, also produces moonstone While sure the market will change over the next few weeks/months, I'd be willing to bet a cinder ore collection turn in that loams will contine to run at a substantially higher cost than moonstones and acrylia; even before the change loam ran ~4p on my server while moonstones ran ~2.25-3p. <div></div>

[Chefren]

<div><blockquote><hr>TofuPatty wrote: However, adepts mean roughly 19 or so skills per class, while jewelry means at best 7 item slots.  The only other option for skills are masters, while for jewelry slots there are a lot of quest rewards and drops that can be used instead .  It's pretty uncommon so see someone in a full set of rare t7 jewelry when there are items that are just as good or better than what can be made with t7 rares.  So realistically you have: Spongy loam - 38 uses, only comes into the game from mining and node can also produce xegonite Rough moonstone - 26 uses at best, comes into the game from mining and collections, easier to find safe gem nodes than ore nodes, also produces acrylia Acrylia cluster - 26 uses at best, comes into the game from mining and collections, easier to find safe gem nodes than ore nodes, also produces moonstone <hr></blockquote>You forgot that moonstones and acrylia can be used for furniture while loam can not. The system as it is implemented now should work well if people would be getting rougly equal amounts of loam and zegonite. </div>

[sAs-Bartleby]

<blockquote><hr>Rutabegah schrieb:<div></div>Isn't rare supposed to be like .. oh I don't know .. rare or something?  You want to pull one every node?<hr></blockquote>If you could make something realy good out of this stuff, rare raw should be rare. But if i look at the jewelers stuff that he makes out of acrylia and xenogite, or what a amorer makes out of xenogite, there is no realy relation to the stuff you get from drop loot When a drop loot from a Mob take me 3 hours to get and this stuff is better than a craftet xenogite armor, the afford of 20 haous harvesting is far to long. After a rare for equipment is nearly worthless. Because the legendary equipment is now our normal equipment (without them it is impossible to play in KoS) the rare you get from harvesting are too few. Till Level 60 everything is ok. To spent the time harvesting to get a cobalt armor or a ebon armor was right. This changed after KoS. Inspect players with level 70, 65 and 60 and count the stuff made out of rare material You will see 1. The lvl 70 will only wear Drop legendary or Fabled 2. The lvl 65 will wear more T6 legendary than Drops and nearly no T7 rare craftet stuff. 3. The lvl 60 wears most of his stuff T6 legendary. Go and ask a jeweler what he is asked to make for other players. I have nearly as much players from 50 to 60 who asked for t6 rare jewelery than  people from 60 to 65.

[TofuPatty]

<blockquote><hr>Chefren wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>TofuPatty wrote: However, adepts mean roughly 19 or so skills per class, while jewelry means at best 7 item slots.  The only other option for skills are masters, while for jewelry slots there are a lot of quest rewards and drops that can be used instead .  It's pretty uncommon so see someone in a full set of rare t7 jewelry when there are items that are just as good or better than what can be made with t7 rares.  So realistically you have: Spongy loam - 38 uses, only comes into the game from mining and node can also produce xegonite Rough moonstone - 26 uses at best, comes into the game from mining and collections, easier to find safe gem nodes than ore nodes, also produces acrylia Acrylia cluster - 26 uses at best, comes into the game from mining and collections, easier to find safe gem nodes than ore nodes, also produces moonstone <hr></blockquote>You forgot that moonstones and acrylia can be used for furniture while loam can not. The system as it is implemented now should work well if people would be getting rougly equal amounts of loam and zegonite. </div><hr></blockquote>No, I didn't forget that, one paragraph up from the text you quoted I wrote "A big problem is the realistic number of uses rares get.  Furniture items aren't that big of a market compared to adept3s, they're really an extravagance item.  I have a large status house, but most people I know don't.  I also try to get skills adept3'd - and most people I know do as well.  The breakdown is each rare has 2 big uses:" Honestly the system as it is now is not working and is not going to work if by work the idea is equal market value for loams, moonstones and acrylia.  The vast majority of all 3 of them goes into making adept3s, the amount of furniture and jewlery made is very small by comparison.  Add to that the fact that it's easier to get acrylia and moonstones into the game than is true for loam.  Take a look at your market, on mine and from all that I've read of everyone else's servers the amount of moonstone and acrylia on the market remains huge compare to the tiny amount of loam.  As for prices, acrylia has gone up in value to being a bit below the new value of moonstones, moonstones have dropped in value and loams have had their value start inching up - and loam was already more expensive than moonstone before the changes.  Pre change acrylia ran about 20g, monstones about 2.85p and loams about 4p.  Now acrylia is up to 1.75p, monstones down to 2.25p, while loams are starting to move up to 4.5p or higher. You have to ask why loam has been higher in value than moonstones and why the gap continues to get larger.  There is something flawed with the answer that people would farm more moonstones by mining to sell on the market than loams because more classes used them.  The value of loams was already higher by 1/3 compared to moonstones before the changes.  That being the case, if both were as easy to get, why would people look for moonstones to farm to sell on the market instead of loams if they could get a profit margin 1/3 better from loams?  Add to that the value of the other possible rare from ores, xegonite, was worth a lot more than the relatively valueless other rare from gems, acrylia.<div></div>

[Calthine]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maroger wrote:<BR> <BR>No but you should have a better shot at one than getting nothing after 6 hours -- I mean you do in other zones!!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Dev's (specificaly Beghn) has stated that rares get more rare as you go up in Tiers.  So they're darn near common in Tier 1, and get more and more rare as you move out into the world.  </P> <P>No rares after 6 hours?  Bah, that's nuthin'!  Back at launch (before they increased the rare drop rate twice) I harvested NO rares for three months.  These days, harvesting T6 and T7, I've gone as long as 5 weeks between rares (not counting imbuing Uncommons).  I've also gotten four in one day.  </P> <P>It's random, and they're rare.  *shrug*<BR></P>

[Saihung23]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Calthine wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maroger wrote:<BR> <BR>No but you should have a better shot at one than getting nothing after 6 hours -- I mean you do in other zones!!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Dev's (specificaly Beghn) has stated that rares get more rare as you go up in Tiers.  So they're darn near common in Tier 1, and get more and more rare as you move out into the world.  </P> <P>No rares after 6 hours?  Bah, that's nuthin'!  Back at launch (before they increased the rare drop rate twice) I harvested NO rares for three months.  These days, harvesting T6 and T7, I've gone as long as 5 weeks between rares (not counting imbuing Uncommons).  I've also gotten four in one day.  </P> <P>It's random, and they're rare.  *shrug*<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>:smileysurprised:  I just harvested a cobalt + a rare pelt + 2 pearls this week!</P> <P>Before this mini bounty of rares it was about a month or more since my last T6 rare.</P> <P>I am happy as long as they dont stop altogether</P> <P>Saihung</P><p>Message Edited by Saihung23 on <span class=date_text>05-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:09 PM</span>

[Thicket Tundrabog]

<div><blockquote><hr>Barakuz wrote:<div></div> <div>There was a flood of responses where everyone pretty much agreed this was a bad thing.</div> <div> </div> <hr></blockquote>That's not my recollection. Certainly there were some that preferred the old approach for rares. The majority felt that there should be changes, and most of these folks thought that the test server changes were going in the right direction. There were numerous suggestions for 'better' changes but there certainly was no consensus about what the 'better' way should be.While the spongy loam/acrylia/moonstone changes were not ideal, things are better for more players overall. As a priest class, I'm delighted that I don't have to compete with two other classes for moonstones.Last night on Permafrost, there were five page of rough moonstones on the Qeynos broker. I bought the cheapest at 1 plat 19 gold (the 19 gold was the broker markup). The next cheapest was about 1.5 plat, and there were a few of them. That's a huge difference from the 3 - 4 plat broker price before the changes.I do sympathize with the spongy loam users. Instead of one class, there are now two classes that need them. I still think that the scout class rare should've been xegonite.</div>

[Barakuz]

<P>Tundrabog,</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=53243" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=53243</A></P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=53464" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=53464</A></P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=53474" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=53474</A></P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=70013" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=70013</A></P> <P>Ok maybe not a flood, but sufficient that it warrants attention.</P> <P>IMHO - as a Priest class if I were in your shoes I would also likely support these changes. However, prior to the changes to the rares - the Spongy Loam was the most expensive and least available rare on the broker. Today, with more classes after the Spony Loam the price has shot through the roof. It is currently possible to purchase 2 x Acrylia or Moonstones for the price of a single Spongy...that's not fair.</P> <P>There also seem to be a number of arguments that the quantity of these rares on the servers was driven by demand...that is likely true to a certain extent, but with the amount of fighters out there and the lack of available product on the brokers I suspect the rare drop rate for Spongies has been tainted by the Purple Geode and Silvery Blue sheet harvests. Also, wouldn't the farmers harvest the more lucrative product that delivers the highest return ? Finally - wouldn't there be an equal no. of Xegonite as Moonstone available as they are harvested off the same node...nope loads more Xegonite available, although that might be because nobody want the Xegonite player crafted armour cos it scrap...but that's an issue for another seperate post.</P> <P>Barakuzz lvl 66 Guardian</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[FinalOrder]

<P>Personally, I believe all rare harvesting is retarted.. I dont care if you harvest a rare in 1 hour.. rare would not be the word.. it would be very rare .. just like in eq1, you had common, uncommon, rare, very rare, and I believe extinct in some cases.. say in 1 hour, you have over a 50 harvests, not hard to do.. nothing.. push that to say what, 6 hours someone said? Get 1 rare.. What a waste of time to upgrade 1 spell. The rare drop rate should be increased imo.. <EM>everyone</EM> pays to play the game, they should all be able to get great items and equipment.. not the ones who put in ungodly amount of hours doing what they do.. now, I play often, I try to get in every night or every other night for around 3 - 4 hours. So if I harvested, and if I had the same luck as the person stated to have harvested for 6 hours for 1 thing.. I could possibly of spent a night for useless stuff? Discouraging to say the least, but just my opinion.. what about those who have alot less time? </P> <P>Before EQ2 came out, I recall the sales reps and managers and what not saying, it is a game for people who have alot of time, or for very little. We all pay to get the game, the fee, and for some of us (myself included) to get a machine to play it (although, not necessary to buy a computer to play just a game, but still worked out) should we all not get a chance to be able to get leet loot without wasting most of our lives? I know im comlaining, dont really care, but I pay and play like everyone else, and I consider myself very good at it, but dont always got the time to harvest ungodly hours so I can upgrade or make in the case of crafting furnature or equipment or whatever, 1 item... I prolly got off track, like I said, dont really care, just saying the rarity in rare harvests is BS.</P>

[DMIstar]

<P>Fact is right now, the way they are seeing it is this... </P> <P>Moonstones/Acrylia have three sets of ways to be distrubeted and taken out of the game via crafting .. either in Woodworking, Jewlry, or Spell Craft ..</P> <P>Hence there needs to be sufficient enough Clusters of each of those two the be evenly distrubeted in the game and be widely used..</P> <P>Spongy Loams atm can only be taken out of the game via by Spell Craft.. So right now as is, To them its a guarentee that a spongy loam will become an Adept 3.. and dont want to flood the market with them, otherwise the adept 3s would be to easy to get.. To counter act this and give the loam more dispersment they added scouts to the list of Loams ... </P> <P>Ok this sounds good in theory though still leaves the problem as each loam hard set on benig an adept 3.. The real problem is.. there is not enough loams being brought into the game for a proper balance .. At this time in the game my server is declineing on Spongy Loams seen rather then inflateing ... So what is accurring is the price slowly going up.. Its a problem .</P> <P>other bad part is, mostly everyone knew this was going to happen.. and the update got pushed anyway .. ;/ </P> <P>What needs to be done is either invent new ways to get loams in game or up the harvest rate ... Because as its going right now . Masters are more easier and more worth while to get then loams are. </P>

[Belaythien]

The oh so convenient theory (for mages and priests) of different uses for each rare is total nonsense. Of course mages and priests like it. Basically every post in favour for the change has a signature that shows what class the main char is <span>...There may in theory be an equal amount of uses for all rares but that's a shortsighted argument which only those that benefit from it use. In the real virtual <span>:smileywink: world out there it's plain and simply a fact that hardly anybody wears crafted jewelry or has rare furniture (especially after this change). However almost everybody gets multiple adept 3 spells. It's also a fact that anybody can see for them selves how many rares of each type there are in the broker.It's also a fact that there are many places a lvl 70 player can easily farm moonstone and acrylia without any danger at all and massive amounts of nodes. There is no such place for spongy loam nodes. And people will not farm spongy because it costs more. In the same time you can farm MUCH more moonstone and acrylia than you could farm an amount of loam that's worth equally much.</span>That change does not make things better except for those two class types. It makes things far worse for the other two ... 200-400% worse judging by the prices and availability.</span>

[EvilIguana9]

There is, as far as I know, only 1 place to harvest ore without aggro at 70.  It is the droag building on temple grounds in TT near the cloud station to the vultak isle.  Since it's the only place, it's a very popular location.  For soft rock there are a number of places with a high density of nodes with no aggro at 70.  That is part of the problem.  Before the change on Mistmoore, moonstone and spongies were roughly the same price.  Moonstone may have been a little bit more pricey at times actually.  Last I checked acrylias were under 1pp, moonstones a bit over, and spongies at least 4pp.  That is not equity, in fact it is considerably less equitable than the situation before the patch.  Now this bothers me as a fighter because fighters are naturally more gear dependent than most other classes.  That means I am paying extra on desirable high-mit gear and now also on adept IIIs.  However I don't have an easy answer to the problem aside from increasing the harvest rate for spongies.  <div></div>

[Dejah]

<DIV>This is how it should be:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Moonstone and Acrylia can be used to make all Adept 3s.  Two different rares, both can be used to make an Adept 3 for any class (sound familiar?).  Moonstone and Acrylia uses in jewelry remain the same.  All Spongy Loams should be converted into Acrylia and Spongy Loams should be removed from the game.  Acrylia should be removed from gem nodes and placed on ore nodes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my opinion, they had the rare setup perfect before the crafting change.  Why they felt they needed to change the rare setup when they removed subcombines is beyond my comprehension.</DIV>

[Barakuz]

<DIV>So basically, we all seem to agree that because of a number of conditions, the price and availability of Spongy's does not equal that of the other primary rares : Moonstone and Acrylia.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me give you an example to put this in perspective...as a lvl 67 Guardian that requires higher level stances, taunts and dps generating CA's to keep / hold aggro. From 61 to 67 I require approximately 10 adept 3's...one master is given at 64 and two spells are pretty much worthless...therefore I need +- 7 x Adept 3's.</DIV> <DIV>At current prices, assuming I buy the Spongies off the broker (+- 4 plat each)...I would need 27 plat total.</DIV> <DIV>A wiz using Acrylia, assuming the same number of spells would pay 8.75 plat (1,25 plat each)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally I like Dehah's idea. However, I would also be happy with the removal of Purple Geodes and Shiny Blue Sheets from ores and the harvest rate increased for Spongies.</DIV> <DIV>Btw, does anyone have a clue what Geodes and blue sheets are used for ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Barakuzz lvl 67 Guardian.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Barakuz on <span class=date_text>05-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:49 PM</span>

[DMIstar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Belaythien wrote:<BR>The oh so convenient theory (for mages and priests) of different uses for each rare is total nonsense. Of course mages and priests like it. Basically every post in favour for the change has a signature that shows what class the main char is <SPAN>...<BR><BR>There may in theory be an equal amount of uses for all rares but that's a shortsighted argument which only those that benefit from it use. In the real virtual <SPAN>:smileywink: world out there it's plain and simply a fact that hardly anybody wears crafted jewelry or has rare furniture (especially after this change). However almost everybody gets multiple adept 3 spells. It's also a fact that anybody can see for them selves how many rares of each type there are in the broker.</SPAN><BR></SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Dont know where this though came from, But No, it cant be ignored .. If we where to raise the rate the of spongy loams to the same or above moonstone/acrlia.. the loams would drastically fall in price and it would be just to trivial for it to be an adept 3 spell... the price range would fall to below 70g at that rate with Scouts and warriors all haveing adepts for spells and there would be zero rareity.. </P> <P>That obviously we can't have.. Spongies have no other uses so will sit on the broker till someone needs a spell. whereas Acrylia and Moonstone can be furniture and jewlry... and if for some reason you dont think they are not being used as that .. You need your head examined.. Most every warrior class ive seen on the server has the acrylia jewerly and Moonstone is now just hitting markets after its revamp.. and not to many people are not going to skip on 24int items .. </P> <P>Upping the income of spongy loams a tad would help there just needs to be a balance.. Other then that the ideas on changeing up the rares would be good to... but how they are now is still a problem with warriors/scouts </P> <P>-The geode and the sheet are part of KoS quests.</P>

[Belaythien]

<div><blockquote><hr>DMIstar wrote:<div></div> <p>[...] If we where to raise the rate the of spongy loams to the same or above moonstone/acrlia.. the loams would drastically fall in price and it would be just to trivial for it to be an adept 3 spell... the price range would fall to below 70g at that rate with Scouts and warriors all haveing adepts for spells and there would be zero rareity.. </p> <p>That obviously we can't have.. Spongies have no other uses so will sit on the broker till someone needs a spell. whereas Acrylia and Moonstone can be furniture and jewlry... and if for some reason you dont think they are not being used as that .. You need your head examined.. Most every warrior class ive seen on the server has the acrylia jewerly and Moonstone is now just hitting markets after its revamp.. and not to many people are not going to skip on 24int items .. </p>[...]<hr></blockquote>Thanks for the insult. Oh and you are dead wrong here.Even IF loam was as common as moonstone OR acrylia it would still be unfair and loam would still be more expensive. Why? Simply because the need for adept 3 spells of one class type (for example tanks) is MUCH higher than that for jewelry of two classtypes.As loam is required for two class types and for example acrylia only for one you can say that the second use for loam is tank A3s and the second use of acrylia is melee jewelry. I think someone wrote that acrylia can be used for furniture too.So you really want to say that the ~17 T7 A3s of every tank is less than the ~2 jewelry items of every tank AND scout plus the occasional furniture item? That's 17 A3s agains 4 jewelry (two class types) plus 1 furniture item for the sake of it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ... oh please.Even IF they'd make loam as common as the others it would still be more expensive and NOWHERE around 70g. Not even acrylia is that cheap and the market was flooded with those around the LU.</div>

[Aienaa]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Btw, does anyone have a clue what Geodes and blue sheets are used for ?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They are used for the Bone Clasp Girdle heritage quest.....  funny thing is, in any one harvesting sitting, you normally get lots of these....  they do not stack and I usually just delete them since I already did the crafting part of the heritage quest....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 70 Assassin</DIV>

[DMIstar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Belaythien wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Thanks for the insult. Oh and you are dead wrong here.<BR><BR>Even IF loam was as common as moonstone OR acrylia it would still be unfair and loam would still be more expensive. Why? Simply because the need for adept 3 spells of one class type (for example tanks) is MUCH higher than that for jewelry of two classtypes.<BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Its not insult just a normal observation of the how the broker has been working on things.. The initial change the loams would stay the same but would gradually decline in Priceing. Sure there would be people picking them off the broker, but more and more would get on the broker and alot more people would venture out and find them on thier own easy enough - As i said would be happy if they influxed them a tad in to the game, but not to be something that is much easier then xegonit .. Which is hard cause there is a few ways to get xegonite... maybe if they added loam to the collection quests it might help. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR>As loam is required for two class types and for example acrylia only for one you can say that the second use for loam is tank A3s and the second use of acrylia is melee jewelry. I think someone wrote that acrylia can be used for furniture too.<BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Moonstones/acrlia has 3 out ports to be used, for each character 8 pieces of Jewlry, Several Pieces of Furniture and a class type round of spells priests/moonstones mages/acrylia.. Where as loam has Scouts round of spells and fighters round of spells.. Remember all classes have use for acrylia and moonstone ..</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>To draw it out:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Moonstone:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Priests rounded 14spells, 8 jewlry, +furniture = 22 +furniture of moonstones uses  for priests.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>all Other classes = 8 jewlry + furniture </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Acrylia:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Mages rounded 14spells, 8 jewlry, +furniture = 22 + furniture of Acrylia uses for mages </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>all other Classes = 8 Jewlry +furniture </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Spongy Loam</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Fighter/scout Each have around 14 uses for loams</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>all other clases 0 Uses. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Hence more of an output for acrylia and moonstone in the game .. </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR>So you really want to say that the ~17 T7 A3s of every tank is less than the ~2 jewelry items of every tank AND scout plus the occasional furniture item? That's 17 A3s agains 4 jewelry (two class types) plus 1 furniture item for the sake of it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ... oh please.<BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0033>Im still trying to figure out what your even saying lol... umm it sounds as if you want the market to be overflooded with the loams and wanting each loam to be worth less then two jewlry pieces ? but why ?</FONT> </DIV> <DIV><BR>Even IF they'd make loam as common as the others it would still be more expensive and NOWHERE around 70g. Not even acrylia is that cheap and the market was flooded with those around the LU.<BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Acrylia was 30g and scaleing down further before LU, once the LU was put in Test notes People bought the acrylia up nad set  them to 3p on my server... They actually did scale back down to 70g the night before LU was in place.. but after patch the next morning ppl shot them back up again ofcourse... The funny thing is, and even still on my server .. the jewlry made for acrylia listed below price of the cluster itself.</FONT> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[EvilIguana9]

<div><blockquote><hr>DMIstar wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr><div><font color="#cc0000">To draw it out:</font></div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#cc0000">Moonstone:</font></div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#cc0000">Priests rounded 14spells, 8 jewlry, +furniture = 22 +furniture of moonstones uses  for priests.</font></div> <div><font color="#cc0000">all Other classes = 8 jewlry + furniture </font></div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#cc0000">Acrylia:</font></div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#cc0000">Mages rounded 14spells, 8 jewlry, +furniture = 22 + furniture of Acrylia uses for mages </font></div> <div><font color="#cc0000">all other Classes = 8 Jewlry +furniture </font></div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#cc0000">Spongy Loam</font></div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#cc0000">Fighter/scout Each have around 14 uses for loams</font></div> <div><font color="#cc0000">all other clases 0 Uses. </font></div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#cc0000">Hence more of an output for acrylia and moonstone in the game .. </font></div><div> </div> <hr> </blockquote><hr></blockquote>It doesn't matter how many potential uses each item has.  You could add 40 new recipes for acrylia that made [a vial of canine saliva] and it would not make one bit of difference.  What does matter is how much actual demand there is for each rare.  Just as an example, player crafted jewelry in t7 is not desirable for fighters at all.  There are lots of better pieces available theough quests, drops, and second hand from the broker.  Fighters live by defense.  Resists, mitigation, +parry/defense/etc, hps/sta are key.  Player crafted jewelry is far outclassed in these areas by commonly available non crafted stuff.  I'd venture to say that this is true to some degree for other professions as well.  What matters is that almost nobody fills their jewelry slots entirely with player crafted gear but almost everybody wants to fill their spellbook most of the way with player crafted spells.  Master spells, especially the "good" ones and those for highly played classes *cough*too.many.other.[Removed for Content].paladins*cough* are rare and expensive.  All you really need to do to reach the same conclusion that I have is to browse the broker and look at the relative costs for each spell rare.  The imbalance is glaringly obvious, far beyond the natural differences caused by the variations in class populations.  It is a mechanics problem pure and simple.</div>

[DMIstar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> EvilIguana966 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DMIstar wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>To draw it out:</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Moonstone:</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Priests rounded 14spells, 8 jewlry, +furniture = 22 +furniture of moonstones uses  for priests.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>all Other classes = 8 jewlry + furniture </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Acrylia:</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Mages rounded 14spells, 8 jewlry, +furniture = 22 + furniture of Acrylia uses for mages </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>all other Classes = 8 Jewlry +furniture </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Spongy Loam</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Fighter/scout Each have around 14 uses for loams</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>all other clases 0 Uses. </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>Hence more of an output for acrylia and moonstone in the game .. </FONT></DIV> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It doesn't matter how many potential uses each item has.  You could add 40 new recipes for acrylia that made [a vial of canine saliva] and it would not make one bit of difference.  What does matter is how much actual demand there is for each rare.  Just as an example, player crafted jewelry in t7 is not desirable for fighters at all.  There are lots of better pieces available theough quests, drops, and second hand from the broker.  Fighters live by defense.  Resists, mitigation, +parry/defense/etc, hps/sta are key.  Player crafted jewelry is far outclassed in these areas by commonly available non crafted stuff.  I'd venture to say that this is true to some degree for other professions as well.  What matters is that almost nobody fills their jewelry slots entirely with player crafted gear but almost everybody wants to fill their spellbook most of the way with player crafted spells.  Master spells, especially the "good" ones and those for highly played classes *cough*too.many.other.[Removed for Content].paladins*cough* are rare and expensive.  All you really need to do to reach the same conclusion that I have is to browse the broker and look at the relative costs for each spell rare.  The imbalance is glaringly obvious, far beyond the natural differences caused by the variations in class populations.  It is a mechanics problem pure and simple.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You makeing no sense, what you are saying basically if they influxed Spongy Loam into the game, haveing it less rare that it would remain the same price range 4-5pp each one on the broker.. I m directly saying your wrong on that.. The only reason its that high is theres not much in game Ive never seen Spongy loams fill up a page on my server.. People under cut people mostly on prices.. and since there is maybe what 4 of them around on qey broker.. the price is not going far at all.. </P> <P>Next acrylia. Almost all fighters ive seen are useing acrylia piecies somewhere.. Earlier on in the game most had sets or partial sets .. Esp Tanks. Why ? cause 24sta, 24agi, 24 wis is not bad on stats even though the base HP and Mana is low and ofcourse they where once easy and cheap to come by.. Hence the market was littered with them. If they wherent worth it, then it would of been exactly like the old moonstone jewlry and there would be none on the market... ive only seen one old moonstone earring on the market on my server ever.. Nobody made them cause of the stats.. Now since revamp there are pages of it.. </P> <P>Acrylia went to 30g easy, cause there was only 8 uses plus furniture per class/character and with the influx on them, since they where the most common rare, there was to much on the market for the demand.. Now with mages using them, at this time the price has gone up do to it can be adept 3s They skyrocketed but are slowly comeing down again.. I still dont think it stabled out yet on price range. .with have to give it more time.</P> <P>Loams in comparison with Acrlyia or anything.. you put 4-5 pages of them on the market and you think they are all going to be 4-5pp and still sell ? I would say ye smokeing some good stuff .. I would bet it would drop to around 70g. after all is settled. There would be people buying them in a rush at first, which is ofcourse going to happen but judgeing longterm of influx of a rare on just whats appearing on initial hit is ludicrouse. </P> <P> </P> <P>--To add so people dont mis word me.. I want influx on Spongy Loams, their current rate is broken in game.. But seriously i think they should be less common then acrylia and  moonstone is, but not much less .. but they are to rare at this rate. </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by DMIstar on <span class=date_text>05-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:59 PM</span>