The new Wailing Caves + Orcs banding together

[Maroger]

<div>Your new plans for the Wailing Caves and possibly the Commonlands sounds like you are planning to do to both zones what you did to the Ruins 0-- i.e. MESS IT UP.</div><div> </div><div>Please do NOT change the level of mobs spawning in either zones. In case you haven't noticed it -- the Ruins is NOT very popular these days thanks to your changes!!</div>

[Delameko Stone]

<span><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div>Your new plans for the Wailing Caves and possibly the Commonlands sounds like you are planning to do to both zones what you did to the Ruins 0-- i.e. MESS IT UP.</div><div> </div><div>Please do NOT change the level of mobs spawning in either zones. In case you haven't noticed it -- the Ruins is NOT very popular these days thanks to your changes!!</div><hr></blockquote>I actually like the Ruins now more than before... and I always see quite a few people in there.  <span>:smileyindifferent:</span></span><div></div>

[73Tour]

<div></div>Actually, I think the ruins are so much better than they were before. It helps your early in the game, money wise. And it greatly increases the newcomers knowledge of the game. And don't forget the story immersion, as opposed to running around killing things.

[lancekortesoja]

I'm guessing you don't have an alt on a PvP server do ya? <span><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div>Your new plans for the Wailing Caves and possibly the Commonlands sounds like you are planning to do to both zones what you did to the Ruins 0-- i.e. MESS IT UP.</div><div> </div><div>Please do NOT change the level of mobs spawning in either zones. In case you haven't noticed it -- the Ruins is NOT very popular these days thanks to your changes!!</div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Cerriphan]

I can understand why you dont like the Ruins.  You can die pretty easily there if you are not careful, or grouped with others.  heh.  What was once a fairly safe solo exp spot has become a dangerous place to be.  Nothing wrong with that.  You will either grow stronger than it, or you wont, and die.  You can always go to the sewers and exp forever there to get your levels up...Lauraana"Opinions are like [Removed for Content]-holes.  Everyone has them, and most stink."   <span><span>:smileywink:</span></span><div></div>

[eq2john]

<div></div><font color="#33ccff">Have to agree with the op.It took a level 22 warlock alt to finally finish off the quests at the ruins...having invis and some big hit spells helped, yet excuse us if we've missed something along the way, but isn't the ruins supposed to be newbie zone?  Receiving a note at the end telling us to go explore the commonlands is big giveaway to how optimistic this re-designed zone is now - seeing as we would have explored much of the commonlands anyway by 22.We fear any commonlands re-vamp may do away with those grouped orc pawns, which are a huge fun thing to take on with a caster between the levels of 12-14 - SoE shouldn't remove all the fun things still possible in the game, that's all. If the ruins is anything to go by, I don't think we can be too hopeful that those orc pawns will be spared with a re-vamp.</font><div></div>

[Despak]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>lancekortesoja wrote:I'm guessing you don't have an alt on a PvP server do ya? <span><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div>Your new plans for the Wailing Caves and possibly the Commonlands sounds like you are planning to do to both zones what you did to the Ruins 0-- i.e. MESS IT UP.</div><div> </div><div>Please do NOT change the level of mobs spawning in either zones. In case you haven't noticed it -- the Ruins is NOT very popular these days thanks to your changes!!</div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>And neither do the majority of players.

[skidmark]

<div></div>The Ruins is the hands down the best "newbie" zone in the game. The XP gain is incredible. If you follow the quest progression through the other three newbie zones (graveyard, sunken city, and sprawl) you can deck out a character with solid equipment and advance to you mid-teens very quickly. You can do the first three zones solo, the Ruins requires a group. I played on the PvP server for awhile and judging by how many instances of the zone there were at peak times, I would have to say the zone has been a successful redesign. The loot, not so good, unless you can take out the named General.I am playing on test right now. The mobs in WC aren't much tougher. The falling rock traps are a nice touch and do 99 damage. The loot and xp are both great. I have had 4 server dicoveries and have only made it a little past where Garreg Stonecrusher spawns. Also had one Master chest drop off of a Ree Sentry (non-heroic).For those of you playing on the PvP servers in Freeport, you are going to be very happy. To the OP, don't get over-excited, the difficulty of the zone has increased marginally, from what I have seen. Haven't been down too deep being a solo Necro.<p>Message Edited by skidmark on <span class="date_text">04-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:20 PM</span></p>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<div>My rerolled SK liked the ruins a lot. It was even fun coming back at lvl 24 to repay that named heroic orc leader some favors <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>and tying the end to a hint for the Desert of Ro to give my char a starting focus there  was a nice touch too.</div><div> </div><div>Honestly I found the first level of WC boring as hell (hard to solo but boring nonetheless) and didnt care to explore it beyond the orc quaters. if the're gonna beef it up and add a good series of quests i will revisit it with pleasure <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Maroger]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>eq2john wrote:<div></div><font color="#33ccff">Have to agree with the op.It took a level 22 warlock alt to finally finish off the quests at the ruins...having invis and some big hit spells helped, yet excuse us if we've missed something along the way, but isn't the ruins supposed to be newbie zone?  Receiving a note at the end telling us to go explore the commonlands is big giveaway to how optimistic this re-designed zone is now - seeing as we would have explored much of the commonlands anyway by 22.We fear any commonlands re-vamp may do away with those grouped orc pawns, which are a huge fun thing to take on with a caster between the levels of 12-14 - SoE shouldn't remove all the fun things still possible in the game, that's all. If the ruins is anything to go by, I don't think we can be too hopeful that those orc pawns will be spared with a re-vamp.</font><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Thank you! That is my point it is no longer a newbie zone. Even though it is still tier 1 Harvesting you need to be Tier 2 to actually go there.</p><p>Totally ruined the zone -- I hope they don't do a similar thing to WC and CL. Remember there are a lot of people out there who prefer to solo -- so don't make soloing impossible or you will be losing customers.</p><p>If we wanted forced grouping we would play EQ1 or the new DDO!!!</p><blockquote><hr>Cerriphan wrote:I can understand why you dont like the Ruins.  You can die pretty easily there if you are not careful, or grouped with others.  heh.  What was once a fairly safe solo exp spot has become a dangerous place to be.  Nothing wrong with that.  You will either grow stronger than it, or you wont, and die.  You can always go to the sewers and exp forever there to get your levels up...Lauraana"Opinions are like [Removed for Content]-holes.  Everyone has them, and most stink."   <span><span>:smileywink:</span></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>The problem is that it is no longer worth the time and effort to do. Really pathetic considering it is Tier 1 Harvesting with Tier 2+ mobs. Not a great design. I just don't go there -- I head for the CL instead so I hope they don't ruin that like they did The Ruins!! Sorry I feel they ruined a nice solo XP spot --  also great harvesting spot in the old days. Harvesting in GY and Sunken City have also been a bit pathetic.<p>Message Edited by Maroger on <span class="date_text">04-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:43 PM</span></p>

[Delameko Stone]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>Totally ruined the zone -- I hope they don't do a similar thing to WC and CL. Remember there are a lot of people out there who prefer to solo -- so don't make soloing impossible or you will be losing customers.</p><p>If we wanted forced grouping we would play EQ1 or the new DDO!!!</p><hr></blockquote>Dungeons are for groups. WC has always been for groups. As far as I know they're updating WC, Permafrost and Obelisk. All group zones already.<blockquote><hr>The problem is that it is no longer worth the time and effort to do. Really pathetic considering it is Tier 1 Harvesting with Tier 2+ mobs. Not a great design. I just don't go there -- I head for the CL instead so I hope they don't ruin that like they did The Ruins!! Sorry I feel they ruined a nice solo XP spot --  also great harvesting spot in the old days. Harvesting in GY and Sunken City have also been a bit pathetic.<p>Message Edited by Maroger on <span class="date_text">04-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:43 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span></div>The majority of CL is soloable now, so it's not a problem that the Ruins is more group orientated. I've had some fun groups in the Ruins since the change, it's a lot more active and engaging and I came out with 10g at lvl 11 from all the loot.

[Maroger]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Delameko Stone wrote:<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>Totally ruined the zone -- I hope they don't do a similar thing to WC and CL. Remember there are a lot of people out there who prefer to solo -- so don't make soloing impossible or you will be losing customers.</p><p>If we wanted forced grouping we would play EQ1 or the new DDO!!!</p><hr></blockquote>Dungeons are for groups. WC has always been for groups. As far as I know they're updating WC, Permafrost and Obelisk. All group zones already.<blockquote><hr>The problem is that it is no longer worth the time and effort to do. Really pathetic considering it is Tier 1 Harvesting with Tier 2+ mobs. Not a great design. I just don't go there -- I head for the CL instead so I hope they don't ruin that like they did The Ruins!! Sorry I feel they ruined a nice solo XP spot --  also great harvesting spot in the old days. Harvesting in GY and Sunken City have also been a bit pathetic.<p>Message Edited by Maroger on <span class="date_text">04-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:43 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span></div>The majority of CL is soloable now, so it's not a problem that the Ruins is more group orientated. I've had some fun groups in the Ruins since the change, it's a lot more active and engaging and I came out with 10g at lvl 11 from all the loot.<hr></blockquote><p>I have always soloed in the Wailing Caves and in the Ruins until they ruined it. Although mostly I harvested in the Ruins.</p><p>Dungeons are not necessarily for groups - if laid out right they can be soloable.</p><p>Message Edited by Maroger on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:49 AM</span></p>

[Delameko Stone]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Delameko Stone wrote:<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>Totally ruined the zone -- I hope they don't do a similar thing to WC and CL. Remember there are a lot of people out there who prefer to solo -- so don't make soloing impossible or you will be losing customers.</p><p>If we wanted forced grouping we would play EQ1 or the new DDO!!!</p><hr></blockquote>Dungeons are for groups. WC has always been for groups. As far as I know they're updating WC, Permafrost and Obelisk. All group zones already.<blockquote><hr>The problem is that it is no longer worth the time and effort to do. Really pathetic considering it is Tier 1 Harvesting with Tier 2+ mobs. Not a great design. I just don't go there -- I head for the CL instead so I hope they don't ruin that like they did The Ruins!! Sorry I feel they ruined a nice solo XP spot --  also great harvesting spot in the old days. Harvesting in GY and Sunken City have also been a bit pathetic.<p>Message Edited by Maroger on <span class="date_text">04-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:43 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span></div>The majority of CL is soloable now, so it's not a problem that the Ruins is more group orientated. I've had some fun groups in the Ruins since the change, it's a lot more active and engaging and I came out with 10g at lvl 11 from all the loot.<hr></blockquote><p>I have always soloed in the Wailing Caves and in the Ruins until they ruined it. Although mostly I harvested in the Ruins.</p><p>Dungeons are not necessarily for groups - if laid out right they can be soloable.</p><p>Message Edited by Maroger on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:49 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Actually I was talking about the devs intentions.  They're said that open terrain is for soloers and groups, and dungeons are for groups.  Sure, you can solo anywhere, much like you can solo heroic^^^ mobs, but it doesn't mean that's what they're intended for.</span></div>

[Geekyone]

<div>I disagree with the OP.</div><div> </div><div>The ruins is great now, wonderful storyline and very much a good feel of how the rest of the game should be.  Progressivly gets alot harder. </div><div> </div><div>I think SoE did a great job making the ruins a very entertaining place to play.</div>

[Melanctha]

<div></div><font size="2" color="#ffccff">I love the revamped Ruins now and am greatly looking forward to what they have in store for WC <strong>and</strong> OoLS!</font>

[DarkMirrax]

<div>WC mobs have always been to low , imo mobs should be 14-19 as its the direct under dungeon to FG another great zone .</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[arathym]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>DarkMirrax wrote:<div>WC mobs have always been to low , imo mobs should be 14-19 as its the direct under dungeon to FG another great zone .</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>The zone is now 13-18.  There is the occasional new npc and named NPCs should be more predictable as far as spawning them and trying for certain drops.  A couple new named were added.  The Lord Ree event has been made heroic rather than x2 and has been touched up a bit.  Everything in the zone drops new loot that should make better sense from what dropped it.  The amount of solo vs heroic content has hardly changed.</p><p>The spike guantlet was something that I'd always wanted to get working, but to be honest I had no idea how when the zone was first created.  It works now along with some other traps that you will see periodically.</p><p>The goal wasn't to change the zone from what it was too much, it just needed some spicing up as far as loot drops and other stuff that I've learned since the zone was originally done.</p><p>Thanks for the feedback, and let me know anything else about the new changes that you like/dislike here or through PMs.</p>

[Wargod1968]

<div></div><p>Thanks for the revamp - I'm looking forward to trying it out.</p><p>As to the complaints:</p><p> - new Ruins > old Ruins. Story makes sense, and the challenge was well worth the nice BP and Legs I got for my SK.</p><p>- in the old Ruins, there were plenty of spots you dared not go due to the mobs as a soler. Comparitively, while the zone is now harder, it is not like you could waltz into the back of the two old orc ruins in the past either.</p><p>- the revamped GY, SC and Sprawl are all much nicer zones that segway nicely into Ruins. Stories are A#1. I like the FP history, too.</p><p>- Tier 1 harvesting is not limited (gasp) to the Ruins. Considering how quickly one can level up to 10th level Artisan, the other 3 zones should be more than adequate to harvest the few harvestables you need to zing up to 10. Discovery xp and the Artisan Quest for newbs makes the journey there trivial.</p><p> - CL is not being touched. If you know otherwise, please link.</p><p> - WC is a dungeon. Dungeons are designed to be group areas. Yes, I could solo my Necro there in days past, but that didn't make it any less of a group-designed zone. Soloing there is a perk.</p><p> - I solo a lot. I'd be the first to complain about lack of solo content. However EQ has plenty of solo content, and plenty of areas to harvest without a group, if you are smart.</p>

[Maroger]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Wargod1968 wrote:<div></div><p>Thanks for the revamp - I'm looking forward to trying it out.</p><p>As to the complaints:</p><p> - new Ruins > old Ruins. Story makes sense, and the challenge was well worth the nice BP and Legs I got for my SK.</p><p><font color="#66ff66">My SK was past the ruins and already in CL when the revamp came out. I did the starter part of the quest just for the story but the XP was hardly worth it. I thought some of the story lines were a bit of stretch and strained my credulity.</font></p><p>- in the old Ruins, there were plenty of spots you dared not go due to the mobs as a soler. Comparitively, while the zone is now harder, it is not like you could waltz into the back of the two old orc ruins in the past either.</p><p><font color="#66ff33">True but you only had a few areas -- now way too much of is filled with heroic mobs who are social. Also they are all see Invis mobs so you can't even really sneak around. There is a quest which is solo oriented to do different things to various objects ( not killing X) but the see invis spoils that quest. </font></p><p>- the revamped GY, SC and Sprawl are all much nicer zones that segway nicely into Ruins. Stories are A#1. I like the FP history, too.</p><p><font color="#99ffff">I never liked GY and SC from the get go -- too much water in SC and too dark and dingy in GY making stuff hard to see. I did the revamped zones but was not very much impressed. The story line was nice but I thought the GY had the best story line and the most interesteing quest stuff. The rest was a stretch and was pretty unimaginative.</font></p><p>- Tier 1 harvesting is not limited (gasp) to the Ruins. Considering how quickly one can level up to 10th level Artisan, the other 3 zones should be more than adequate to harvest the few harvestables you need to zing up to 10. Discovery xp and the Artisan Quest for newbs makes the journey there trivial.</p><p><font color="#66ffcc">Ruins have always been better for harvesting in and so was the Spawl. Too much water in SC and GY too dark and dingy. For Tier 1 harvesting only the Ruins and the Spawl were decent -- the rest were way too dark and dingy.</font></p><p> - CL is not being touched. If you know otherwise, please link.</p><p> - WC is a dungeon. Dungeons are designed to be group areas. Yes, I could solo my Necro there in days past, but that didn't make it any less of a group-designed zone. Soloing there is a perk.</p><p><font color="#66ff33">I don't see what you should consider soling there a Perk -- dungeons should not be reserved for specific playstyles. The biggest thing I go there for is the beetles and a few FG quests. I don't like dungeons very much -- never have as long as I have played -- I have always preferred to play in outdoor zones as I thnk they are much more fun than dungeons which can get boring and tedious and take way too long.</font></p><p> - I solo a lot. I'd be the first to complain about lack of solo content. However EQ has plenty of solo content, and plenty of areas to harvest without a group, if you are smart.</p><hr></blockquote>

[ke'la]

<div></div><p>A) This is a Multi-player game the best stuff goes to those that work with others THATS WHY dungons are designed for groups, and why the best stuff and to a degree the best zones are and come from Raids.</p><p>B) There is plenty for soloists to do in the world and as there is almost NO Group content for the Transition from T1 to T2 this is a good Idea.</p><p>C) Correct me if I am Wrong but the wailing caves is SUPOSED to be the CL counterpart to Antonica's Black Burrow if this is the case then it is supose to be the First real Dungon for New players, with FG like SH the next real dungon(after wich FPers and Quenosians share dungons).</p><p>D) It is RPG cannon that leaving the light of Day and Desending into dark and Dangerous places incresses the Danger and the Deeper you get the more dangerous it becomes.</p><p>As to those pointing out the PvP servers the reason why they are doing this is because they are Brand New Servers and EVERYONE is a New Player there so its a good gauge of what they think of it.</p>

[Haapy]

<div></div><p>New Ruins are great, and now there is finally a newbie zone for groups. Can you please name ONE newbie zone in FP that actually required a group to progress before? If you like soloing, there are other zones that you can do, but if you like to run 3+ people in a group there are none but new Ruins. Great change! Not every dungeon should be soloable, there are a ton of options for that as is. My main is a conj, I soloed a ton on him, had no problems finding great spots. If you cannot do new Ruins, thats only one zone, go out to commonlands, there is a ton of quests and critters that you can do at lvl 10 and beyond solo. CL needs update pretty badly, as with new isle/newbie zones, most of the content is useless, should really add some more meaningful quests and mobs. Antonica has been way better than CL since launch in that regard.</p><p>WC right now is a joke, by time you do most newbie quests, it is grey or green untill you get very deep into it, and by that time there are only a handful of mobs left to fight, the update should be a great addition. I dont like the fact that in a good group you can go from yellow to grey in it in only a few hours. </p><p>I just wish they's update a few more dungeons that way.</p>

[Wargod1968]

<div>My reponse in <strong><font color="#ffff00">yellow</font></strong>:</div><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Wargod1968 wrote:<div></div><p>Thanks for the revamp - I'm looking forward to trying it out.</p><p>As to the complaints:</p><p> - new Ruins > old Ruins. Story makes sense, and the challenge was well worth the nice BP and Legs I got for my SK.</p><p><font color="#66ff66">My SK was past the ruins and already in CL when the revamp came out. I did the starter part of the quest just for the story but the XP was hardly worth it. I thought some of the story lines were a bit of stretch and strained my credulity.</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00"><strong>A matter of opinion. Doesn't mean the rewards and story aren't worth it to others.</strong></font></p><p>- in the old Ruins, there were plenty of spots you dared not go due to the mobs as a soler. Comparitively, while the zone is now harder, it is not like you could waltz into the back of the two old orc ruins in the past either.</p><p><font color="#66ff33">True but you only had a few areas -- now way too much of is filled with heroic mobs who are social. Also they are all see Invis mobs so you can't even really sneak around. There is a quest which is solo oriented to do different things to various objects ( not killing X) but the see invis spoils that quest. </font></p><p><strong><font color="#ffff00">In the past half the zone was social heroics anyway. I have twice used Invis, and once used Stealth to complete the 'find the idol, statue, well, etc' part of the quest in the heroic part of the zone. Nothing saw through it. Nothing else required stealth. Not sure why you had a problem.</font></strong></p><p>- the revamped GY, SC and Sprawl are all much nicer zones that segway nicely into Ruins. Stories are A#1. I like the FP history, too.</p><p><font color="#99ffff">I never liked GY and SC from the get go -- too much water in SC and too dark and dingy in GY making stuff hard to see. I did the revamped zones but was not very much impressed. The story line was nice but I thought the GY had the best story line and the most interesteing quest stuff. The rest was a stretch and was pretty unimaginative.</font></p><p><strong><font color="#ffff00">Dark and dingy is supportive of the atmosphere. If you don't like the limited vision, up your Gamma settings, you'll see just fine. The rest is opinion. You're welcome to it, but I enjoyed the elaborated story of the flooding of Sunken City, and the use of the Giantslayers as a training ground for the Dreadnaughts. And I liked the Wheel of Viniki reference in Sprawl, as well as a few lines about what it used to be in Freeport. Every mob now has a reason for being in their zone.</font></strong></p><p>- Tier 1 harvesting is not limited (gasp) to the Ruins. Considering how quickly one can level up to 10th level Artisan, the other 3 zones should be more than adequate to harvest the few harvestables you need to zing up to 10. Discovery xp and the Artisan Quest for newbs makes the journey there trivial.</p><p><font color="#66ffcc">Ruins have always been better for harvesting in and so was the Spawl. Too much water in SC and GY too dark and dingy. For Tier 1 harvesting only the Ruins and the Spawl were decent -- the rest were way too dark and dingy.</font></p><p><strong><font color="#ffff00">The Graveyard is littered with nodes, all easy to see, among the scorpions and pirates. If SC and GY are too dark to see, up your Gamma. Doesn't make them any worse for harvesting if you bother to adjust your settings. </font></strong></p><p> - CL is not being touched. If you know otherwise, please link.</p><p> - WC is a dungeon. Dungeons are designed to be group areas. Yes, I could solo my Necro there in days past, but that didn't make it any less of a group-designed zone. Soloing there is a perk.</p><p><font color="#66ff33">I don't see what you should consider soling there a Perk -- dungeons should not be reserved for specific playstyles. The biggest thing I go there for is the beetles and a few FG quests. I don't like dungeons very much -- never have as long as I have played -- I have always preferred to play in outdoor zones as I thnk they are much more fun than dungeons which can get boring and tedious and take way too long.</font></p><p><strong><font color="#ffff00">Dungeons are reserved for group - or that is the stated intent by devs. If you don't like dungeons, you are welcome to stay out of them. I'd agree that WC was (in the past, don't know about now) rather boring, but most of the others are pretty darn exciting, and have good lore and mob placement. If you choose to avoid them, that's your call, but don't criticize the game for not making everything soloable. This is a social game. You have plenty of options for solo play, but to provide challenge to those who don't solo, there has to be group-challenging content. In EQ2, devs have geared most dungeons for group content, a staple of the fantasy genre.</font></strong></p><p> - I solo a lot. I'd be the first to complain about lack of solo content. However EQ has plenty of solo content, and plenty of areas to harvest without a group, if you are smart.</p><hr></blockquote><hr></blockquote><div><strong><font color="#ffff00">My .02. I think the devs did a great job revamping the FP and Qey newbie zones. The new Ruins and Caves is a great place for new players to learn grouping skills and adjusting to harder content early on, and there are still plenty of nodes to harvest from for the *short* time one is involved in T1 harvesting. There is loads of solo content for you to do if you hate the Ruins -but realize for the rest of the population who wants more of a challenge, there is a zone for us, too.</font></strong></div><div> </div>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<div></div><div>Since this thread started I had my provisioner "slave" in Qeynos have a look at the revamped starter quests and found that the QS ruins where quite nice'n easy but not that immersing while the revamped QS caves provided quite a good storyline with tough mobs and made me play straight  until 2. am.</div><div> </div><div>While the revamped FP ruins are impossible to solo below 20 to the end the revamped FP Caves easily could be - but it wasn't hard finding some folks to group with and teach the Gnolls the ways of the Overlord <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>up to the revamp the Oakmyst Forest in QS was the only newbie zone with a good series of linked quests and for the final encounter a group was also needed back then.</div><div> </div><div>generally I think these changes are all for the better, they invite players early to group and provide a good storyline.</div><div> </div><div>PS: Yes, the graveyard IS a great place to harvest. my last FP toon worked everything except fishing there to trivial in no time while clearing up the place.</div><div> </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:49 PM</span></p>

[Maroger]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<div></div><div>Since this thread started I had my provisioner "slave" in Qeynos have a look at the revamped starter quests and found that the QS ruins where quite nice'n easy but not that immersing while the revamped QS caves provided quite a good storyline with tough mobs and made me play straight  until 2. am.</div><div> </div><div>While the revamped FP ruins are impossible to solo below 20 to the end the revamped FP Caves easily could be - but it wasn't hard finding some folks to group with and teach the Gnolls the ways of the Overlord <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>up to the revamp the Oakmyst Forest in QS was the only newbie zone with a good series of linked quests and for the final encounter a group was also needed back then.</div><div> </div><div>generally I think these changes are all for the better, they invite players early to group and provide a good storyline.</div><div> </div><div>PS: Yes, the graveyard IS a great place to harvest. my last FP toon worked everything except fishing there to trivial in no time while clearing up the place.</div><div> </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:49 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>I only have a few characters in QS whose only real mission in life is to fill in some TS occupations. I don't harvest much at all with them -- I just ship the stuff down from FP so I don't have to waste time harvesting in Antonica and getting their levels.</p><p>I only have 3 characters I actively play and they are all in TS and Nek Forest now -- but I much prefer working on the TS aspects of the game. But the revamps will ensure I don't waste time levelling other characters as I don't care much for these revamps.</p><p>There are so many things that don't work right in this game that they should spend some time fixing that and not waste it on revamps.</p>

[Bhagpuss]

The revamps to the starter zones were all very good, in my opinion, and very well worth the dev time.The Ruins used to be a  tedious, static zone that few people would have bothered to spend more than a short time in, unless foraging. The revamped version is lively, fun and rewarding. The xp there is great and so is the coin. The quests are involving and well done.As for how hard it is, my necro on Test, who has, at best, treasured equipment and mainly App1 spells, was able to solo General Lonetusk successfully 5 times out of 5 when he conned green, so I would imagine any halfway decent pick-up group on a Live server could take him when he conned yellow. His loot is excellent for a zone of that level.I went into Wailing Caves on test, but as everything is very grey to my necro there I couldn't tell much about the revamp outside of seeing the excellent spike trap and the rockfalls.I stood on the spikes to see what damage they did and they hit me twice in very quick succession for over 500 a time. At 27th it took me deep into the red. If that's a percentage effect, then it's fine, but if it's an absolute it's going to one-shot most characters at the levels that would be hunting there.

[Wargod1968]

<div></div>Bhag, is there any way, that you have seen or heard, for a Scout to disarm the traps?

[Zerebro]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Wargod1968 wrote:<div></div>Bhag, is there any way, that you have seen or heard, for a Scout to disarm the traps?<hr></blockquote>I see a prince of persia effect <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Or maybe float to avoid damage? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></div>

[Geekyone]

<div></div><blockquote><hr><strong><font color="#ff0000">arathym</font></strong> wrote:<div></div><blockquote>The spike guantlet was something that I'd always wanted to get working, but to be honest I had no idea how when the zone was first created.  It works now along with some other traps that you will see periodically.</blockquote><hr></blockquote>Pretty cool...hope these work well, are take some use of the brains to figure out.

[Wargod1968]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zerebro wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Wargod1968 wrote:<div></div>Bhag, is there any way, that you have seen or heard, for a Scout to disarm the traps?<hr></blockquote>I see a prince of persia effect <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Or maybe float to avoid damage? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></div><hr></blockquote>One can hope!

[Maroger]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wargod1968 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zerebro wrote:<BR> <DIV><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wargod1968 wrote:<BR> Bhag, is there any way, that you have seen or heard, for a Scout to disarm the traps?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I see a prince of persia effect <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>Or maybe float to avoid damage? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></SPAN></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>One can hope!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I oppose all twitch type puzzles -- if I wanted to play and action game I would be playing some other game. I am totally opposed to twitch puzzles and activities in RPGs.<BR>

[firewolf]

OTOH, if you don't like dungeons and only wanted to solo everything, EQ2 is not for you. I soloed 90% of the time and grouped 10% of the time due to RL. However, I've the most fun time while grouped. The Ruin revamp is great. My defiler gained 2 levels in 1 hour there while grouped with 2 wizards taking down the 3 up heroics. Died a couple of times but lots of fun. Don't assume all soloer think like you. <div></div>

[Captain Apple Darkberry]

<font color="#ff6600">It seems to me that the OP is upset that the zones he used to harvest T1 nodes and moths/beetles so that he could broker them for 5000000000000pp has been stolen from him...  <span>:smileysurprised:</span> Seriously...   ...how long do you need to harvest T1?  ...30 minutes?  Any crafter will ding into T2 in under 1 hour of crafting. And no matter how you try and wrap it, your saying that all of the Ruins should be soloable.  Well I for 1 and very happy that there are finally spots that lowbies can experience the fun of teamwork and grouping.  Some of the funnest moments I've had were in a sub level 10 group that was kickin [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and taking names cuz we worked well together. Sorry that you don't like it.  Almost everyone that I've met does like the changes... </font><div></div>

[Wargod1968]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maroger wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wargod1968 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zerebro wrote:<BR> <DIV><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wargod1968 wrote:<BR> Bhag, is there any way, that you have seen or heard, for a Scout to disarm the traps?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I see a prince of persia effect <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>Or maybe float to avoid damage? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></SPAN></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>One can hope!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I oppose all twitch type puzzles -- if I wanted to play and action game I would be playing some other game. I am totally opposed to twitch puzzles and activities in RPGs.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I know I never mentioned 'twitch' style puzzles. How about a menu to 'disarm' just like a chest functions right now? Gives a rogue (or any scout) some added usefulness.

[KBern]

<DIV>I was there with my lvl 21 ratonga defiler on Sunday.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The spike trap didnt seem like anything bad....it surprised me popping up like it did, but didn't seem to b extensive damage....though I might have a had ward up but dont think so.</DIV>

[Crim001]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KBern wrote:<BR> <DIV>I was there with my lvl 21 ratonga defiler on Sunday.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The spike trap didnt seem like anything bad....it surprised me popping up like it did, but didn't seem to b extensive damage....though I might have a had ward up but dont think so.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I went in there around a week ago with my bruiser to check out WC. Tried out the spike traps as well, and they hurt hehe....got hit for around half my HP.

[The-Fourm-Pirate]

I like it, it's great xp and fun, teaches noobies how to group now that there is only 1 heroic on IOR.