Two minute death gear penalty is not right... LU22 needs adjusting.

[digitalblasphemy]

<blockquote><span><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Gameplay ***</font></strong></span><span><strong></strong></span><span><strong></strong>- If you die within 2 minutes of unequipping an item, the item will still take damage to its condition.</span><span></span></blockquote><span></span>Where to start on this one.  I can only guess as to why this was implemented, but like all smurfs, it will have a far greater effect.Most of us has seen or done the thing when you take off all your gear before you die.  Whether it's before you jump off a cliff, your raid wipes or whatever, it's become a pretty standard thing.  If the change was brought in to negate this, then I can understand that based on the ground it will make raiding alot more difficult.But, there's a problem here.  Many of us switch out weapons mid fight.  Not to get around paying repair costs, but due to some mobs being more resistant to certain kinds of attacks.  Seriously, why should I be punished x2, if I am using a crushing weapon, notice it's getting resisted a bit more than usual, switch to my slashing weapon, continue the fight, then 1min 45sec later, die.  I now have to repair 2 weapons.  That doesn't make any sense. Reduce the timer from 2mins to 15-30sec.  Or even better, remove this change all together.With the implementation of AA's, where we take trade-offs to use a certain tree line, switching out gear is even more hectic.  From a roleplaying standpoint this change makes no sense.  From a players standpoint, it doesn't sit well either.I would very much like to hear a dev's view on why this change is needed.<div></div>

[Melo]

<div></div><div></div><p>I guess they want to promote the use of repair kits but it won't work. Cost of making these is high enough so that most people won't buy them and instead will switch to alternate gears. Repair kits make sense mostly for the main tank with or without this change, since they can't really get naked before dying anyway.</p><p>I agree 2 minutes is way too much. 15 seconds will be enough to do the trick since when we realize we are going to wipe, all are usually dead within 5 or 10 seconds.</p><p>Message Edited by Melo on <span class="date_text">04-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:09 AM</span></p>

[DarkMirrax]

<div>Well they have done this to stop people using death as way of transportation , why wait 2 mins to die and zone when u can run back faster now ?? makes sense and its [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fine addition , pisses me off to see people taking the mick with no death penaltys ... even on raids if you wipe then u wipe and have to incur repair costs plain and simple , no pain no gain</div>

[digitalblasphemy]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>DarkMirrax wrote:<div>Well they have done this to stop people using death as way of transportation , why wait 2 mins to die and zone when u can run back faster now ?? makes sense and its [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fine addition , pisses me off to see people taking the mick with no death penaltys ... even on raids if you wipe then u wipe and have to incur repair costs plain and simple , no pain no gain</div><hr></blockquote>The dying thing as a teleportation thing is stupid.  There has to be a way to fix that without screwing over the raiders.What to speak of the different weapons, sheilds armor and so on many of us tanks are switching out like crazy, we have to deal with our resist gear getting screwed as well.  I'm so [Removed for Content] off right now I can hardly contain myself.  We enter a new zone, fight a mob for the first time and find out it's doing heat damage.  People start switchin over their resist gear mid fight to heat.  We wipe.  We incur 10% on 2 sets of armor,weapons,jewelery.  Please someone tell me how that makes sense.  I wasn't trying to cheat death by getting naked.  I wasn't killing myself naked so I could teleport across the zone.  I was busting my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] playing this game and I got double billed.SOE don't have a clue what they are doing.  First they put in shard recovery agents, then they remove shards all together a few weeks later, but still leave in the recovery npcs for months.I'm so angry right now but I'm tryin to calm down and see the sense in this.  The dying to teleport across a zone, is the best reason I see for implementing this change.  But for people who raid, swapping out equipment is like breathing.  It happens so much and is something we have been using successfully for well over a year.I am strongly against this change but if it has to be put into the game, make the timer 15sec.  Not 2mins.  What's in my bag is in my bag.  It's safe.  Attaching a 2min timer on something to get dmg'd while sitting in my bags is utter loonacy.</span></div>

[Aesdyn2]

<div></div><div></div>I believe the point of this is to actually stop you from switching out your gear as for all intents and purposes this is an exploit. Why do you think that SOE wants to allow you to completely cheat the death penalty?  Think this over a little more.  However even if that isn't the case I hardly see why damaging two sets of weapons is going to make you go broke. If you're in a raid guild and the few gold you're going to spend fixing the second weapon is breaking the bank I have to wonder.Further, if a dragon tramples you why would the gear in one of your backpacks be any safer than the stuff you have on?<p>Message Edited by Aesdyn2 on <span class="date_text">04-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:18 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Aesdyn2 on <span class="date_text">04-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:19 AM</span></p>

[Serventof Wrath]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Aesdyn2 wrote:<div></div><div></div>I believe the point of this is to actually stop you from switching out your gear as for all intents and purposes this is an exploit. Why do you think that SOE wants to allow you to completely cheat the death penalty?  Think this over a little more.  However even if that isn't the case I hardly see why damaging two sets of weapons is going to make you go broke. If you're in a raid guild and the few gold you're going to spend fixing the second weapon is breaking the bank I have to wonder.Further, if a dragon tramples you why would the gear in one of your backpacks be any safer than the stuff you have on?<p>Message Edited by Aesdyn2 on <span class="date_text">04-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:18 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Aesdyn2 on <span class="date_text">04-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:19 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>First off changing your gear in the middle of a fight is not an exploit.  Look at the AA lines they require different weapons to be equipped in order to utilize certain skills.  If I change my gear to be better suited resist wise in mid fight how am I cheating? </p><p>And if you don't think it can't be expensive to repair your equipment then you obviously haven't had to repair Fabled gear after a night of raiding in a new zone.  Also I am a ranger I'm in a guild that raids I spend enough gold on arrows and poisons that yes I could see having to repair several sets of equipment (the result of this change) becoming an issue that could "break the bank."</p><p> </p><p>Oolan Woodswraith</p><p>61 Ranger Najena</p><p>Explicit</p>

[Gortha]

<div></div>If they do this, then they need to have repair kits that repair more than the 40% cap they do now.. do that, and I have no issues with the change

[Exibar]

<div></div><p>have no fear, this will never go in as it is on test.  It makes the raiding guilds angry, SOE caters to the raiding guilds, as this is basically the "end game" scenario. </p><p> SOE's changes caused one major guild to leave the game already, Cadre from Toxx left.  They will not anger more Raiding guilds. </p><p> I am not a raider, but I also agree that 2 minutes is way too long.... an average fight for me lasts 30 seconds to 60 seconds....  If I change weapons or gear for each fight, and they last only 30seconds, and die during the last one, this change would force me have to repair QUITE a lot more gear... not cool.</p><p> Set the timer to 10 seconds, or 15 seconds and I dont' have a problem with it. </p><p> If SOE wishes to stop the "travel by death", they could easily setup a 2 minute timer that if you die within 2 minutes of unequipping your gear, you spawn in the same xact place that you died.   Heck, give people a choice with a 5 minute timer....  If you remove your gear within 2 mintues of death, you have a 5 minute timer to spawn at the "usual' spawn point, or spawn when you wish at the same location you died...</p><p> </p>

[Aesdyn2]

For clarification I meant taking off all your gear before death.

[Lera]

They could make it so that whatever the best gear you equipped within the past two minutes is the one that takes damage. That gets rid of the removing gear before death exploit (and it is, considering the light penalty for death in this game), but doesn't doubly penalise those who switch gear during raids.<div></div>

[Rhianni]

<div></div><div></div><p>screwing over raiders? I dont recall reading in the patch notes where it says only raid members are effected. Pretty sure its anyone.  Heaven forbid they actually have a penalty for death in this game that you cant avoid.  Why bother with 15 seconds if they are going to do it at all?</p><p>maybe you will have to spend a lil money on repair kits instead of beating the system</p><p>Message Edited by Rhianni on <span class="date_text">04-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:29 PM</span></p>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>Gorthaur wrote:<div></div>If they do this, then they need to have repair kits that repair more than the 40% cap they do now.. do that, and I have no issues with the change<hr></blockquote>Why then? Its not like you can't carry as many repair kits as you want? 3 40% repair kits = 120% repair, so it makes ZERO difference.You all suck... Its amazing the BS excuses people come up with when they don't want to loose a gimped exploit.Facts:1. Death is SUPPOSED to have 2 penalties, Exp Debt & Gear degradation.2. Players have been using the naked death work around to avoid half the death penalty.3. At 2 minutes this HARDLY affect anyone not trying to use this exploit. If you're legitimatelt changing gear in a raid... guess what, any gear you use during the raid SHOULD be suseptible to breakage... you used that staf against the mob to get an affect, and then you used that dagger vs the mob to get a different affect, since you used em both in rapid succession, they should both take damage when you die... in all honesty, everything you have on your person should stand a chance of being lost of damaged when a dragon farts on you.Whine on loosers... I raid... In our guild we have 2 types of people... those that understand the logic behind the rules and appreciate them, We all carry repair kits... not 1 or 2 but 4 or 5 so we can die, but so we can help others that have a few extra deaths... And then you have the people posting about this change. They tend to be the ones that use the strip method and never carry the tools they need... Oddly enough they tend to be the ones that loose all their gear 1st becasue they rely so heavily on this exploit.<p>Message Edited by Zald on <span class="date_text">04-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:42 PM</span></p>

[Khurghan]

Wow this + ToS is gonna make life as a guardian even more fun.<div></div>

[Xarov]

<div>Here is one scenrio where i can see this as bad, what if you have a guardian tanking a raid mob and he needs to switch shield while using tower of stone and he dies ? Not only one shield will have damage but the one he switch will as well ? Does that sound like a fix?</div><div> </div><div>yeah SoE if you wanted to encourage repair kit usage then why dont you make them 100% repair and at a managable price? (  yes i dont farm to death to make gobs of money )</div><div> </div><div>???? /discuss</div>

[Ghartan]

Right now there is NO penalty for dying in a raid if you are level 70. What risk is there for a raid that will warrant the potential reward.None ... zero ... zip ... nada ...This at least puts a little bite (emphasis on little) into death even for level 70s.<div></div>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<div>Even if it was a necessary change, it is one that</div><div> </div><div>- no one likes</div><div>- most dont care</div><div>- and some hate</div><div> </div><div>SOE wont risk loosing subscribers=money over it so it wont go live....</div>

[Solaran_X]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<div>Even if it was a necessary change, it is one that</div><div> </div><div>- no one likes</div><div>- most dont care</div><div>- and some hate</div><div> </div><div>SOE wont risk loosing subscribers=money over it so it wont go live....</div><hr></blockquote>SOE released LU13. And the world cried on the day that the Guardians, broken from launch and given extra DPS, actually became what they were supposed to be from launch - a meatshield only.

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<div>Even if it was a necessary change, it is one that</div><div> </div><div>- no one likes</div><div>- most dont care</div><div>- and some hate</div><div> </div><div>SOE wont risk loosing subscribers=money over it so it wont go live....</div><hr></blockquote>- Who cares if you don't like it. I don't like taxes but they're a neccessary evil.Yes, it will go live. If you can't handle it the door is well marked.One thing you ppl need to get through your skulls. SoE does not work for you. They work for the betterment of the game. I know some of you think that YOU ARE the betterment of the game, but you are 100% wrong. You're little fish in the big pond... Stay or go, the game and the rest of the world will go on without you.

[Kizee]

<div>Big deal.</div><div> </div><div>Now people can't cheat and avoid equipment damage like they were before.</div>

[Felshades]

you know why they're doing this?i know the main reason.  the "get naked" macro before a wipe.  only reason.  that and to prevent get naked and then die to zone.i have repaired fabled gear.  i pay about 10gp every three hours from death due to being a caster and dying frequently.  does this bother me?  no.repair kits costing nearly 50gp per one for fuels however does.change that and we're good.<div></div>

[Lera]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<div>Even if it was a necessary change, it is one that</div><div> </div><div>- no one likes</div><div>- most dont care</div><div>- and some hate</div><hr></blockquote>Let's see if I can remember the discussions around here..."They're getting rid of shards? What a joke! Death has no meaning in this game! When's Vanguard coming out?""They're reducing XP debt? </span><span>What a joke! Death has no meaning in this game! When's Vanguard coming out?""They're actually putting back some of the penalty for death? How dare they! That'll stop us from attempting raids as many times as we want! And when's Vanguard coming out?"The strip-naked-before-death macro is, let's face it, an exploit. I don't have a problem with this one at all.</span></div>

[digitalblasphemy]

<div></div>Some more thoughts on this matter.- taking off your gear for a quick evac = bad.  i've never done this and don't like it.  but there must be other ways to combat this "technique" without effecting the following legitimate reasons.- raid wiping because of bogus raid mob's pathing, random agro = bad.  fix this and I'll happily die 1000 times over on legitimate raid encounters.  but being killed without even attacking a mob is bad coding.  with the strip macro, people at least had a chance to save their gear on those occasions.- switching out weapons and resist gear on an encounter = this point psses me off.  i'm livid about this.  if I'm using one weapon, then changing to another, not one person has explained here why I shuold accept 20% dmg instead of 10% if I die.  it's in my bag for goodness sake and shouldn't be damaged.For all the talk, there's been but a few responses from people who actually know what they're talking about.  No one has a problem with this change to remove the evac trick.  For the narrow minded, they think it's all about the repair costs.  It's not the cost that concerns me but the principal.  I accept death.  Debt, shards, repair costs are something we've experienced in this game.  But why make me pay x2 now if I'm switching out gear mid fight and die.I pretty much hate this game now after being force fed crap like this for over a year.  It's not about not wanting to accept change.  For me it's about having to try and fight for the things we take for granted in this game.  This new offline broker system for example is the pits.  We got people stating they are being ripped off and not getting their money from offline sales.  But over the course of EQ2 being live, there's always an issue with this game.  There's always something that's [Removed for Content] off the populice.  Like any bad relationship, alot dont' know when to walk away.  I'll freely admit to being one of those persons.  But now it's becoming clear this game will always pull the rug from under us.  It will always be this way.  SOE care about the bottom line and that's revenue.  Buggy raid mobs, broken quests, gear with stats a character can't even use (deflection on a mage cap for instance).  It's endless.  Once LU22 hits and this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] change goes live, they'll hit us with another POS idea come LU23.  LU24 will no doubt do the same.<p>Message Edited by digitalblasphemy on <span class="date_text">04-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:27 PM</span></p>

[Mordacion]

<div>whatever dev had this bright idea should be beaten with some sort of large blunt object until they come to their senses.</div>

[Solaran_X]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Mordacion wrote:<div>whatever dev had this bright idea should be beaten with some sort of large blunt object until they come to their senses.</div><hr></blockquote><p>If they brought back full EQLive CRs and death penalties, I'd rejoice at the challenge of undertaking a CR again. I met alot of friends in EQLive, oddly enough, during CRs - escorting random people to their corpses, giving away Temperance (on my Cleric) for CRs, SoWing people for CRs (on my Shaman), or in the event of an almost impossible to reach corpse - summoning someone's corpse and rezzing them (on my Necromancer - if they didn't bring a Cleric or weren't a Cleric/Paladin themselves).</p><p>The corpse runs of old were actually a mechanic of EQLive that helped the community instead of hindering it, and I'd be glad if they restored them.</p>

[zabor]

<blockquote><hr>Zald wrote:- Who cares if you don't like it. I don't like taxes but they're a neccessary evil.<hr></blockquote>taxes *are* evil. it is robbery.

[eq2john]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><font color="#3399ff">Sorry people but I kind of like this change, had to chuckle a bit...with so many threads for a harsher death penalty, then here it is; armor repair costs  is the only thing imo that can reflect a penalty, based on level of items worn. I don't like repairs because it becomes expensive as you level; it does hurt - yet it seems the fairest way. There is a penalty, it just becomes more obvious with level.Ducking out of it by removing your items shortly before hitting the dirt is no longer an option to many of those who used it. I always thought that was a bit of a con to be honest. I don't think anything should be exempt from this - even switching weapons mid fight - as this is part of the battle tactics used and so should suffer, along with the armor worn when combat fails.Sorry, you people wanted it tougher, and for death to have real meaning. It might not involve a corpse run, back through hostile mobs, but it will hit the wallet. The gear timeout penalty won't effect us as we've never dumped gear into bags but it will effect anyone who raids or groups that take risks; imo I think SoE have increased the consequences for failure by removing the get out claus - not so easy now to say that death will not have meaning...</font><div></div><p>Edit: I'd resists calls to reduce the timer as well - anything shorter and its becomes an even chance to prempt failure and so resort to dumping gear - the only way you could beat this on a 2 min timer is to become a psychic.<span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by eq2john on <span class="date_text">04-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:03 AM</span></p>

[Gertack_v2]

My problem with this change isn't so much that it results in armor damage, but how they do it.  They could've prevented all armor from being removed instantly by a macro through a delay like the inventory window does, or they could've kept the 5 (now 2) second delay for unequipping even after you yell.But to have to have mechanics that:1) Cause damage to equipped armor (death)2) Let you take off your armor (UI, macro, etc)3) Damages unequipped armor ANYWAY over some magical period (new change)Just makes no $%#$# sense whatsoever.Maybe next they'll decide to give us armor damage if we evac, because evac shouldn't be used to let us avoid the consequences of death.<div></div>

[Jaffa Tamarin]

<span><blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:<div></div>- switching out weapons and resist gear on an encounter = this point psses me off.  i'm livid about this.  if I'm using one weapon, then changing to another, not one person has explained here why I shuold accept 20% dmg instead of 10% if I die.  it's in my bag for goodness sake and shouldn't be damaged.<hr></blockquote>Realistically, damage would be occuring to items that you are using in combat, as an ongoing process and not all of a sudden at the end if you happen to lose.  It would be entirely reasonable to have the damage penalty apply to all items used in a fight, and not just to the ones that happen to be equipped when you die.</span><div></div>

[Espyderman]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:<blockquote><span><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Gameplay ***</font></strong></span><span><strong></strong></span><span><strong></strong>- If you die within 2 minutes of unequipping an item, the item will still take damage to its condition.</span><span></span></blockquote><span></span>Where to start on this one.  I can only guess as to why this was implemented, but like all smurfs, it will have a far greater effect.Most of us has seen or done the thing when you take off all your gear before you die.  Whether it's before you jump off a cliff, your raid wipes or whatever, it's become a pretty standard thing.  If the change was brought in to negate this, then I can understand that based on the ground it will make raiding alot more difficult.But, there's a problem here.  Many of us switch out weapons mid fight.  Not to get around paying repair costs, but due to some mobs being more resistant to certain kinds of attacks.  Seriously, why should I be punished x2, if I am using a crushing weapon, notice it's getting resisted a bit more than usual, switch to my slashing weapon, continue the fight, then 1min 45sec later, die.  I now have to repair 2 weapons.  That doesn't make any sense. Reduce the timer from 2mins to 15-30sec.  Or even better, remove this change all together.With the implementation of AA's, where we take trade-offs to use a certain tree line, switching out gear is even more hectic.  From a roleplaying standpoint this change makes no sense.  From a players standpoint, it doesn't sit well either.I would very much like to hear a dev's view on why this change is needed.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yet another fix that wasnt requested or needed, yet many others go unnoticed and untouched. WTG SOE.

[s]

<div>Wouldn't it be nice if a change would actually MAKE SENSE.</div><div> </div><div>THAT is what people are whining about here. I'm pretty sure most of us are all for having death actually mean something again, but this change is just [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], for the exact reasons given by the OP.</div><div> </div><div>Here let me help you along. If I go fight a mob and die to it.. why would the dagger I pulled out of my backpack and the staff I put back in would both get damaged from the fight, but the helmet I have in the exact same backpack does not get damaged because I didn't use it in the fight. And even if I did, both helmets would take damage, including the one safely stashed away in my backpack. Well, safe enough for the pair of boots I have in there and didn't use to NOT take damage from the fight anyway...</div><div> </div><div>I'm all for them finding something to get rid of the naked evaccing, because that's one of the most rediculous things in this game atm, but it shouldn't hurt something totally different and unrelated. The change the way it is now gets rid of the possibility of using this "exploit", aswell as the yell-strip "exploit", but in the process it hurts the fair players too.</div><div> </div><div>THAT is the problem.</div>

[theriatis]

<div></div><div>Hi,</div><div> </div><div>would it be so hard to just remove the UNEQUIP and the EQUIP Command ?</div><div> </div><div>That would fix all problems mentioned in all Threads before and thereafter.</div><div> </div><div>- No (Un)equip Macro ever again - regardless of the "why&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</div><div>- Switching Single Weapons or Shields for AA, no problem.</div><div>- Switching Resist Gear without problems.</div><div> </div><div>Come on, that would be the easiest way.</div><div> </div><div>-> Says a raider, who is not happy with it, but would be a little less unhappy if those commands would just vanish.</div><div> </div><div>Regards, Theriatis.</div><p>Message Edited by theriatis on <span class="date_text">04-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:20 PM</span></p>

[Scort]

Well, if they are going to do this, then they need to finally get around TO FIXING THEIR ***BUGS*** that cause unnecessary deaths. Revive BUG, Evac BUG and all the other bugs in the game that cause problems, which led to people using unequip macros in the first place.They need to make SURE their content is fixed before releasing it also and make sure it doesn't cause more deaths than are to be expected.If they want to open this can of worms, then they need to get their [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] together and fix and test this stuff. It's THEIR responsibility to the players to make sure we don't get more deaths and debt and repair cost than what is to be expected. We should NOT be penalized for them refusing to (or not able to) fix bugs and not properly testing things.The only thing that helped reduce or stop this penalty from their refusal (or inability) to fix things, was the unequip macro.<p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class="date_text">04-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:59 PM</span></p>

[Lairdragna]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Solaran_X wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Mordacion wrote:<div>whatever dev had this bright idea should be beaten with some sort of large blunt object until they come to their senses.</div><hr></blockquote><p>If they brought back full EQLive CRs and death penalties, I'd rejoice at the challenge of undertaking a CR again. I met alot of friends in EQLive, oddly enough, during CRs - escorting random people to their corpses, giving away Temperance (on my Cleric) for CRs, SoWing people for CRs (on my Shaman), or in the event of an almost impossible to reach corpse - summoning someone's corpse and rezzing them (on my Necromancer - if they didn't bring a Cleric or weren't a Cleric/Paladin themselves).</p><p>The corpse runs of old were actually a mechanic of EQLive that helped the community instead of hindering it, and I'd be glad if they restored them.</p><hr></blockquote>Last I checked EQLive is still up and running... bye bye, don't let the door slam you in the [Removed for Content] on your way back to Nirvana.  Most of us left EQLive because we hated that crap.</span></div>

[SugarGirl]

<div></div><p>I use the get naked macro, and I have figured this change was coming for awhile. It's pretty evident that you weren't supposed to be able to get naked before death. Somehow I don't see my final thoughts right before i die being "Oh holy crap!!! I need to strip to my skivies!". I also switch out weapons often during a fight. I think it's fair to have any item I have used against a mob to be damaged if I die. It was part of the battle, I died, therefore it takes damage.</p><p>I do, however, think that the 2 minute timer is a bit excessive. I am okay with my gear taking penalties from one death, but a 2 minute timer will cause all of the the equipment i might have used on a previous encounter to be damaged if I die shortly after, whether or not I used this equipment for the encounter I died in. I think 30sec to 1 minute would accomplish what SOE is going for here without going overboard.</p>

[Kleitos]

If this fix is the solution to naked-evacing I can tell you right now it's not going to fix that problem.- Strip naked- Wait 2 minutes- Go and dieAs many have already said, this will cause more problems then it will fix...<div></div>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lairdragna wrote:<div><span>Most of us left EQLive because we hated that crap.</span></div><hr></blockquote>most did just hate the graphics and got bored - thats why EQL veterans joined EQ2 on a massive scale.

[TheSlashman]

<div>I don't mind that much for repairs, but SOE needs to make more rewards for killing x4 mobs.  Half the time you get a large meaty bone, or a piece of meat.  SOE should start placing gold for some of these mobs which is split by the raid.  A group of 24 people raiding is a challenge within itself, and half the time you only get 3-4 items (which go to specific classes).  What about the rest of the people that wiped that night?  The rewards are not there IMHO.  I am not saying every chest needs to be a master or legendary, but make it worth while when a group of 24 people are going into a zone defeating mobs with 1 million hit points.  </div>

[Microphage]

<div></div><div><p>By the time I’m ready to leave I’ve usually got a repair bill coming anyway, so this probably wouldn’t stop me from using the coffin express. <span> </span>OTOH a 1 or 2 minute timer on revive would stop me.<span>  </span>They could also just damage the most expensive equipment worn in the last 2 minutes so the raiders don’t get double-penalized.</p></div>

[azaran]

<div></div><p>Now that sounds cool.   personally, I'm a firm believer that dying hurts like heck, and can tend to damage bits of your equipment, and should have a heavy price.  Fun is fun folks, but to me, the current death system is an absolute joke, its not even a minor inconvenience.  one mob and the death penalty is gone, and my kit takes 10% damage.  So??  I do more damage in RL cutting my fingernails.</p><p>What Solaran_X said is very similar to the UO system of death, but sounds a bit more fun, i like the idea of being able to summon someones corpse to res them, that sounds great fun.</p><blockquote><hr>Solaran_X wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Mordacion wrote:<div>whatever dev had this bright idea should be beaten with some sort of large blunt object until they come to their senses.</div><hr></blockquote><p>If they brought back full EQLive CRs and death penalties, I'd rejoice at the challenge of undertaking a CR again. I met alot of friends in EQLive, oddly enough, during CRs - escorting random people to their corpses, giving away Temperance (on my Cleric) for CRs, SoWing people for CRs (on my Shaman), or in the event of an almost impossible to reach corpse - summoning someone's corpse and rezzing them (on my Necromancer - if they didn't bring a Cleric or weren't a Cleric/Paladin themselves).</p><p>The corpse runs of old were actually a mechanic of EQLive that helped the community instead of hindering it, and I'd be glad if they restored them.</p><hr></blockquote>

[runamonk]

Honestly I've been expecting this change for quite some time. There are macros that people use that removes all their armor before they die and they're able to avoid the additional costs of repairing their armor. This is very very handy when you misstep and fall off one of the isles in KoS. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[SugarGirl]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>TheSlashman wrote:<div>I don't mind that much for repairs, but SOE needs to make more rewards for killing x4 mobs.  Half the time you get a large meaty bone, or a piece of meat.  SOE should start placing gold for some of these mobs which is split by the raid.  A group of 24 people raiding is a challenge within itself, and half the time you only get 3-4 items (which go to specific classes).  What about the rest of the people that wiped that night?  The rewards are not there IMHO.  I am not saying every chest needs to be a master or legendary, but make it worth while when a group of 24 people are going into a zone defeating mobs with 1 million hit points.  </div><hr></blockquote>I have to agree here. Currently x4 trash mobs don't drop anything more than green solo overland mobs. Adjusting body dropped makes sense if it takes 24 people to bring the mobs down.

[Rarlin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lera wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<div>Even if it was a necessary change, it is one that</div><div> </div><div>- no one likes</div><div>- most dont care</div><div>- and some hate</div><hr></blockquote>Let's see if I can remember the discussions around here..."They're getting rid of shards? What a joke! Death has no meaning in this game! When's Vanguard coming out?""They're reducing XP debt? </span><span>What a joke! Death has no meaning in this game! When's Vanguard coming out?""They're actually putting back some of the penalty for death? How dare they! That'll stop us from attempting raids as many times as we want! And when's Vanguard coming out?"The strip-naked-before-death macro is, let's face it, an exploit. I don't have a problem with this one at all.</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>/total agreement!</p><p>I can't believe this thread...  They took away my exploit... *sob*  Now death means something again... *sob*  Grow up!</p>

[Scort]

Got to love how idiots call things an exploit when it's something that's done they don't like.Get a clue morons. It's not an exploit just because your warped feeble mind thinks it is.I guess in that case, SOE is exploiting by leaving bugs in the game that cause more deaths than is designed or should be happening because they refuse to fix them.

[Krooner]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote:Got to love how idiots <strong>call things an exploit when it's something that's done they don't like.</strong>Get a clue morons. It's not an exploit just because your warped feeble mind thinks it is.I guess in that case, SOE is exploiting by leaving bugs in the game that cause more deaths than is designed or should be happening because they refuse to fix them.<hr></blockquote><p>Yeah you hit it on the head there.  This was not an EXPLOIT.  It was simply crafty players playing inside the rules and finding ways to cut costs.</p><p>There are lots of these little things out there that arnt rule breaking that players use.  Im one that if it even smells like an exploit Im not going to use it.  This one falls into the catagory of harmless.  If a raid yells and gets naked to avoid equip damage it doesnt harm anyone else, and it doesnt trivialize the encounter.  In fact the raid does pay a penalty.  Everytime you yell and or break combat you reduce your chance of getting a master.</p><p>IMO If you want to get to the root cause of this change its because SOE wants to push the game towards using the repair kits.</p><p> </p>

[Chief20]

<div></div>I think it's a good change, since I'm sure they didn't intend on players swapping everything off before they die.  However, I think they should reduce the cost of armor repairs maybe...like an overall change.  So put this new change in, but also reduce the amount of armor repairs.

[HellRaiserXX]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Katinna wrote:<div></div>My only question is if they are trying to eliminate the 'get naked' macro.. just disable the command and any option to automatically remove your armor by any command..<hr></blockquote>Exactly, thats why I think there is more to this than fixing the fixing the macro.

[Tige]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Katinna wrote:<div></div>My only question is if they are trying to eliminate the 'get naked' macro.. just disable the command and any option to automatically remove your armor by any command..<hr></blockquote><p>Correct..just remove it like they did with the Bank Command where you could remove stuff from the bank when not at the bank. But it isn't so easy to say just remove it and here is why.</p><p>If you notice you hear tanks mention they change weapons or even armour during a fight. Now some of these guys may use the comands and make a macro to swap out a certain weapon or armour. Thus you can't remove the command all together. I am sure they could and then you here those that use it the way it is intended about it.In the end this does nothing for the most part and the way around it? simple..Those who raid doing the dung crawls are wearing crappy armour untill they get to the main boss. Then they will put on the GOOD stuff for the final guy. On contested stuff..No big deal..just go and get repaired and come back and if Conj in the group, can CoH down. Only thing to worry about? Another guild maybe taking it if one on your server.</p><p>Once the stuff becomes known and easy to do, no one will care cause they aren't wiping like they were when learning it.</p><p> </p>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>HellRaiserXX wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Katinna wrote:<div></div>My only question is if they are trying to eliminate the 'get naked' macro.. just disable the command and any option to automatically remove your armor by any command..<hr></blockquote>Exactly, thats why I think there is more to this than fixing the fixing the macro.<hr></blockquote><p>There is as discussed :-</p><p>Teleportation Exploit of death</p><p>Zerging :smileyvery-happy: bout time !!</p><p>Challenge - makes u worry about dying again right ?!</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Geekyone]

<div>Good move SoE, this might help put the fear of death back into a few people.</div>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>Gertack wrote:My problem with this change isn't so much that it results in armor damage, but how they do it.  They could've prevented all armor from being removed instantly by a macro through a delay like the inventory window does, or they could've kept the 5 (now 2) second delay for unequipping even after you yell.But to have to have mechanics that:1) Cause damage to equipped armor (death)2) Let you take off your armor (UI, macro, etc)3) Damages unequipped armor ANYWAY over some magical period (new change)Just makes no $%#$# sense whatsoever.Maybe next they'll decide to give us armor damage if we evac, because evac shouldn't be used to let us avoid the consequences of death.<div></div><hr></blockquote>What makes no sence is that you can be in the middle of fighting some big bad monster and all of a suddent stop fighting to strip all your armor off in some magical period... (your words)1. Its funny how some a-holes can justify this... The exploit makes perfect sence. They know full well that the results goes 100% against the way the game plays. But when they try to close the loophole, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], the try to put down the change as "not making sence".2.- Rares sell for 4pp each.... People buy em all the time.- Even common T7 good gear sells for 1pp+. People buy them anyway.- Master I spells sell for 10-30pp... People are buying those to...But SoE enforces a game rule which might require you to invest 35 gold to add to your chances of successfully getting rares, masters, etc for free... and all of a sudden YOU CAN't AFFORD IT! Now THAT is complete garbage!3. Overexageration... gotta love people that completely distort the truth... and leave out the 80% of it that actually matters just to "prove" their point.- A raid will hold up 3-10 minutes so the MT can cycle a particularly useful CA...- A raid stops for bio breaks every other kill...- A raid stops to confirm that people know strategy and are all ready to go...But now, raiders will all suffer double damage cuz they're too dumb or in too big a hurry to announce swapping of resist gear for specific mobs and wait for the gear timer to set... They'll wait 10 minutes to prepare for the combat, then at the last minute before they pull, they'll yell to swap out important gear... Yep that's how it'll work... Darn SoE!

[Scort]

Like I said, just because your warped feeble mind thinks something is an exploit, doesn't mean it is. You people crack me up. If someone does something you don't like, you whine and cry it's an exploit, only to try and give your warped sense of reality some validity. Poor wittle babies.Mommy, he used his bat to hit me in the face and beat me up, he's exploiting because you not supposed to use anything but fist. Waaaa mommy help me.It doesn't matter to you that SOE put the unequip command in the game to use. It doesn't matter to you that SOE refuses to fix bugs that cause more deaths than it's supposed to. It doesn't matter to you that SOE releases unfinished content that raiding guilds have to spend weeks beta testing and dying in order to test stuff and provide feedback because they refuse to test it properly on test servers.No, it doesn't matter one bit to you that SOE will not do anything to help fix the problems but, you whine when players do things to try and help reduce excessive repair cost because of all the issues SOE ignores and causes.You know what raiding guilds get out of a lot of this content? a TON of repair cost and VERY LITTLE reward. Look at Ascent for instance. Look at all the no loot drops that happen there with mobs that can kill you in one round. NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to help pay for repair cost.Raiding guilds get [Removed for Content] with repair cost, yet get very little loot to help pay for it. There is 30 times more money going out for repairs, than what people get from raiding.Of course, most of you don't know the first thing about this since you are stuck in your little groups and get loot and don't die that often. It's not all you think it is in raiding guilds. We dish out a LOT more risk and cost than the rewards we get. We dish out so much risk and cost, that the few rewards we actually get are hardly worth it at all. Well, at least since t6 and t7. T5 days were perfectly fine.

[Ulrick85]

<div>ok...  I can deal with this change.... If something gets done about the repair kits... </div><div> </div><div>40% repair for a minum 40 gold cost is bad...</div><div> </div><div>the repair kits are being sold for around 55 gold min on my server... buying enough to keep repaired on these raids were still learning is poket breaking.. expescially as a mage...</div><div> </div><div>Even being a carpenter i would like to either see repair kits do a full repair.. or the fuels to make them cost less...</div><div>I can barely afford to make them... let alone buy them from someone else...</div>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<div></div><font color="#ff9900">guess I am free to include the sentence that was left out from the start <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font><blockquote><hr>xFallenAngelx wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Noaani wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lera wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<div>Even if it was a necessary change, it is one that</div><div> </div><div>- no one likes</div><div>- most dont care</div><div>- and some hate</div><p><font color="#ff9900">SOE wont risk loosing subscribers=money over it so it wont go live....</font></p><p></p><hr></blockquote>Let's see if I can remember the discussions around here..."They're getting rid of shards? What a joke! Death has no meaning in this game! When's Vanguard coming out?""They're reducing XP debt? </span><span>What a joke! Death has no meaning in this game! When's Vanguard coming out?""They're actually putting back some of the penalty for death? How dare they! That'll stop us from attempting raids as many times as we want! And when's Vanguard coming out?"The strip-naked-before-death macro is, let's face it, an exploit. I don't have a problem with this one at all.</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>OMG so true...</p><p>And everyone else, shut up, the majority asked for some sort of penalty to be introduced for death. Most of the people that asked for something to be implemented were "hardcore" players, who, amusingly, are the ones that this change will affect the most. If it affects you, its because you and/or people like you asked for this change. Live with it.</p><hr></blockquote>*claps*  well said</span></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#ffcc00">and I still dont think it will go live....or remaining without a "fix" for longer than a month - but i would like to be proven wrong...</font>

[Solaran_X]

<div></div><p>THat is sad. People whined and cried and screamed about the existed death penalties being weakened. And when SOE finally decided to buckle down and enforce their remaining death penalties...people produce to whine and cry and scream some more.</p><p>Although I do agree 2 minutes is a bit much. 30 seconds would've been much more fitting (given how fast the yell/unequip macros work), but then people could've still used the death evac. So it's a tough situation.</p><p>Not that it bothers me. I don't raid, so I only have one set of gear equipped (no backup sets for resistances, and only a spare robe and weapon for certain group/solo situations), and I've never made use of a yell/unequip macro - I took every one of my deaths like a man...fully dressed.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

How about reinforced versions of bags? Standard versions are just as now but bags crafted from rares should have a -1% or so damage reducer to gear damage contained within them.Just an idea.<div></div>

[Haapy]

<div></div><p>It is amazing how much people complain about such a minor change. 2 min limit works fine to prevent ghetto-evac, if anything it is too little, but making it more would hamper raiders too much, as they could be dying several times in a course of 10 min, getting several sets damaged again from the last switch made a few deaths ago. Someone have said that the cost of repairs was already excessive. You kidding me, right? At levels you actually raiding in the game, you should easily make about a plat per hour just from grey mob's body drops to vendors. If anything, the current repair bills are too low, but I am guessing by this thread people would cry a river or two if devs doubled or tripled current repair bills. I dont even look at how much it costs me to get my gear from 10% to full, and I die a ton while mentoring my 2-nd box healer, tanking with my conj.</p><p>Macros for the gear switch should stay in game though, maybe changed to weapons-only for the AA abilities (however I have always used hotbar for that, works fine). But changing armor mid-battle? Some MMORPGS I have played did not even allowed you to switch while in combat, but I guess people are too used to easy-mode that eq2 has bacome. Hell, stripping down while in combat goes against every spirit of the genre. I can see swtching wepons, as done in many movies or books, but getting naked just before you die?</p><p>Yes, there is a ton of bugs in the game (I play a conj, pathing bugs is something I know VERY well), and people die enough times due to that, but that should not be an excuse to work the system and sidestep the penalty in 99% of the cases where there is no bug involved in your deaths. I just bought a bridge, please tell me that you only use that macro when there is a bug involved but not in any other case.</p><p>Love the change, a good step toward making death have SOME meaning for some people that been avoiding it. Funny, these are the same people that cry about RvR for raid mobs. RvR? And what exactly are you risking? Just time as is now. Repair kits are fine, they allow you to make 14 attempts instead of 10, providing you came with only 1 set of gear (unlikely in a raid situation), which is what I think their main purpose is.</p>

[Astery]

i'm not a raider, but i feel this game changes the basic ruleset too often... breaks things, then fix comes too late.i like the shard system, perhaps keep it off for raid zones, but put it back to common zones like antonica.about switching gear while in combat.PUT ON AN EQUIP TIMER AS OTHER GAMES DO! IT TAKES TIME TO REMOVE AND PUT ON A NEW PIECE OF ARMOR isnt it?<p>Message Edited by Astery on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:41 PM</span></p>

[digitalblasphemy]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Haapy wrote:<div></div><p>It is amazing how much people complain about such a minor change. 2 min limit works fine to prevent ghetto-evac, if anything it is too little, but making it more would hamper raiders too much, as they could be dying several times in a course of 10 min, getting several sets damaged again from the last switch made a few deaths ago. Someone have said that the cost of repairs was already excessive. You kidding me, right? At levels you actually raiding in the game, <font size="5"><b><font color="#ffff00">you should easily make about a plat per hour just from grey mob's body drops to vendors</font></b></font>. If anything, the current repair bills are too low, but I am guessing by this thread people would cry a river or two if devs doubled or tripled current repair bills. I dont even look at how much it costs me to get my gear from 10% to full, and I die a ton while mentoring my 2-nd box healer, tanking with my conj.</p><p>Macros for the gear switch should stay in game though, maybe changed to weapons-only for the AA abilities (however I have always used hotbar for that, works fine). But changing armor mid-battle? Some MMORPGS I have played did not even allowed you to switch while in combat, but I guess people are too used to easy-mode that eq2 has bacome. Hell, stripping down while in combat goes against every spirit of the genre. I can see swtching wepons, as done in many movies or books, but getting naked just before you die?</p><p>Yes, there is a ton of bugs in the game (I play a conj, pathing bugs is something I know VERY well), and people die enough times due to that, but that should not be an excuse to work the system and sidestep the penalty in 99% of the cases where there is no bug involved in your deaths. I just bought a bridge, please tell me that you only use that macro when there is a bug involved but not in any other case.</p><p>Love the change, a good step toward making death have SOME meaning for some people that been avoiding it. Funny, these are the same people that cry about RvR for raid mobs. RvR? And what exactly are you risking? Just time as is now. Repair kits are fine, they allow you to make 14 attempts instead of 10, providing you came with only 1 set of gear (unlikely in a raid situation), which is what I think their main purpose is.</p><hr></blockquote>You know I've heard this so many times now I feel it's my duty to confront this.  Prove it.  1pp per hour from grey mob body loot.  Until someone comes up with anything concrete, it's an urban legend as far as I'm concerned that seems be doing the rounds on these forums.</span></div>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote:<div>Good move SoE, this might help put the fear of death back into a few people.</div><hr></blockquote><p>fear? I doubt that.</p><p>respect? not even close</p><p>if we die we pay ([Removed for Content])tax in form of the repair bill and thats it - so this is kind of a anti tax-exvasion measurement, nothing more <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Haapy]

<div></div><div></div><p>Did a farmfest on humanoid mobs in DoF, mostly miners, grey to me so no chests. Between the coin they dropped and the body loot that included a few rares did about plat and a half. thats on my 68 conj, your milage may vary, but I still think it is duable by every class (templars might have tougher time with kill rate). I think I should do better in TT though, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] pigs there were green last time I run past (might have been when I was 67) so a few chests might up the farmage by a bit. No coin on them, but body loot drops a lot better, and they take about the same time to kill. This got me thinking about a good farm spot for pure, solid $$.</p><p>Another excellent spot is the gazer isle, in one of the gazeebos. You can mine rocks (about 5 nodes), and fight about 9 spawns non-stop, eyes are lvl 60, so they still drop chests, their body drops sell for 2+ gold per rare, and 50s per common, adepts and advanced books bring about 5g (and lvl 60 adepts still sell very well on a broker, but I am not acounting for that here), easy plat per hour even if you dont hit a rare harvest. Try it yourself and see. We conjurors tend to solo a lot, and look for the good harvest/farm spots in our travels, a 1p/hour is not a myth and been very doable back in DoF days. Hell, you can make great $$ by harvesting basil in t1 zones, ever checked on broker to see how much people selling it for? A high level toon has no room to complain about the costs of repairs.</p><p> </p><p>Edit: I love the idea on timers for gear switch. Put in a 30 sec on armor piece change while engaged, that makes sense. However if people are complaining this much now over 15 extra gold for this tweak, just imagine what will happen then <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Right now this argument is that some people dont want ANY death penalty in the game, and they are complaining about SoE's attempt to fix the loophole they have been using. Debt is not a penalty as is, takes about first 3-4 mobs in a group to clear a death, and thats about 2-3 minutes, thats pretty weak.</p><p>Message Edited by Haapy on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:38 AM</span></p>

[Geekyone]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Haapy wrote:<div></div><p>It is amazing how much people complain about such a minor change. 2 min limit works fine to prevent ghetto-evac,</p><hr></blockquote>I had to use death as a ghetto evac last night.  I was at the southern most point in TS (no Griffen eggs yet) and didn't want to take the 10 mins to walk to Ant gate, so I just attacked a red mob....BAM I'm at the Ant zone gate...woot.

[Kyriel]

<div>me thinks its just another money sink. <strong>11gold per death</strong> was not enough in sony's eyes ... they think I am too rich...</div>

[Scort]

Obviously a lot of people have no clue as to how little money raiders make, yet how much they die. How much they die from broken content. How much they die from bugs. How little loot is gotten, much less enough trash loot to help pay for repairs.You get nothing for loot every day of the week, yet spend 50g or more a night on repairs and see how long it takes before your bank account goes down. Some of us spend a plat or more on repairs each night (if you raid hardcore).The risk in this game is excessive compared to the rewards, yet they want to implement a change that makes it even worst for raiders, yet they won't fix the bugs and provide trash loot to help.Not everyone is rich. This is just yet another stick it to the raiding guilds move.<p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:24 PM</span></p>

[Lydiae]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote:Not everyone is rich. This is just yet another stick it to the raiding guilds move.<p></p><hr></blockquote><p>That's funny.  Raiding guilds are the only group of players SOE seems to care about.</p><p>What server are you on and what's your character's name?  Since you're complaining about the cost I imagine you have nice gear.  Show us you're not decked out in fabled gear and you might be credible.  Gear is wealth, money sitting in the bank is meaningless as it doesn't help your character one iota.  How many raids did you bow out of because you were too broke for the repairs?</p><p>We know how raiding works.  After you figure out the strategy it becomes Farming for Fableds.  No one else can expect to get them, so quit whining.</p>

[Terabethia]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lydiaele wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote:Not everyone is rich. This is just yet another stick it to the raiding guilds move.<p></p><hr></blockquote><p>That's funny.  Raiding guilds are the only group of players SOE seems to care about.</p><p>What server are you on and what's your character's name?  Since you're complaining about the cost I imagine you have nice gear.  Show us you're not decked out in fabled gear and you might be credible.  Gear is wealth, money sitting in the bank is meaningless as it doesn't help your character one iota.  How many raids did you bow out of because you were too broke for the repairs?</p><p>We know how raiding works.  After you figure out the strategy it becomes Farming for Fableds.  No one else can expect to get them, so quit whining.</p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#33ccff">Sweet, spoken like a true raid hater! I love it. Apparenty, it is YOU who know nothing about raiders, not the other way around. Lets go over the typical raid guild, shall we? You find a mob/zone, and you spend tons of time testing it. And part of that time is DYING! Are you getting cash back from this? Nope, not at all. You finally win, and what do you get? One, maybe sometimes two or three, things. This is for the 24 person raid. And that is assuming that the item is even any good. Yes, raiders have better gear in general... but we put in the time and effort for it. And the REPAIR costs. </font></p><p><font color="#33ccff">So... after all of this raiding, what do we have time to do? Well, farming is not one of them. We are either dealing with our RL, or we are working on that super long epic quest. Not much time to farm greens for $$. And the items that we get in raids goes on our character, not vendored for money. So no, most raiders are not rich at all. We spend all of our $$ of raiding stuff. Weither that be potions, totems, food/drink and repairs. As a raider who wears plate (and yes, some fabled of course) it will cost me 45+ gp to repair my gear from 0%. Now you want to hit me of two sets of items? Right... that makes total sence.</font></p><p><font color="#33ccff">Oh, and SoE catering to the raid guilds! Hahhah! Best thing I have ever heard! Really, I am falling out of my chair over here. ALL OF THE CHANGES made that you people flame about doesn't faise us one little bit. Do you think we cared about shards? Do you think we cared about having griffons in TS/Nek and being able to use the carpets without doing the quest? Do you think we care about the recruitment tab we will have with LU22 (This is for casual guilds only, raiding guilds would never use a random recruitment process such as that). Do you think we cared about all of the other pity things that have been done to make this game easier for all the kids who want to whine all day about how hard it is? The only changes that SoE makes for us is to fix the raid content that was broken from the beginning. </font></p><p><font color="#33ccff">So yea... we are VERY unhappy about this change. In the end, it is the RAIDERS most affected by it, but yet it was the casual and lazy players that used the naked death exploit that made them change it. </font></p>

[eq2john]

<div></div><font color="#6699cc"><font color="#3399cc">Well I will confess I don't know much about raiding - except as a means to obtain the best items in the game. It is not without risk - and it should never be without risk, because the items are worth a lot - so raiders will die over and over because of it. No soloist or small group could ever compete - raiders are a specialised band of players who want the best. Nothing wrong with that at all...Yet at present, by a neat trick of unequiping gear, raiders can negate a vast portion of the risk by avoiding repair costs. It is not to offend any raider, but imo if I were a raider I'd accept the consequences for going after the best items in the game. It seems a fair trade off, considering the rewards raiders can achieve when everything goes right, more often than it goes wrong.There's been so many threads about the game being easy, with no apparant death penalty, but I don't think anyone should expect to walk into a raid zone and not be in the slightest bit bothered by failure.The rewards though for getting it right are immense.</font></font><div></div>

[Levikun]

They could do this..like you cant unequip items once your group/raid has initiated combat. The only types of armor that should be allowed to be changed are weapons and shields. Problem solved. I personally like trying to run through mobs naked, not because it wont put a durability reduction on my armor, but because I'm naked and it makes me feel sexy.

[Terabethia]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>eq2john wrote:<div></div><font color="#6699cc"><font color="#3399cc">Well I will confess I don't know much about raiding - except as a means to obtain the best items in the game. It is not without risk - and it should never be without risk, because the items are worth a lot - so raiders will die over and over because of it. No soloist or small group could ever compete - raiders are a specialised band of players who want the best. Nothing wrong with that at all...Yet at present, by a neat trick of unequiping gear, raiders can negate a vast portion of the risk by avoiding repair costs. It is not to offend any raider, but imo if I were a raider I'd accept the consequences for going after the best items in the game. It seems a fair trade off, considering the rewards raiders can achieve when everything goes right, more often than it goes wrong.There's been so many threads about the game being easy, with no apparant death penalty, but I don't think anyone should expect to walk into a raid zone and not be in the slightest bit bothered by failure.The rewards though for getting it right are immense.</font></font><div></div><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#33ccff">First, this is again a common misconception that people have against raiders. Very rarely do we yell off a mob and get to take off our clothes. First, by the time you realize the fight it not working, it is generally too late to yell/strip because the mob has already killed 75% of the players. Second, more times than not, /yelling a mob can completely bork it, to the point that you must wait for a server reset to try again. So yea... most <em>real</em> raiding guilds do not yell off the mobs. </font></p><p><font color="#33ccff">Second, we could care less about loosing our gear. We care about now having to loose TWO sets of gear. That is not right, no matter how you look at it. So the ring that I took off and put in my bag is not safe, but the bracer right next to it that was not worn is? This makes sence? </font></p><p><font color="#33ccff">Third, it was not the raiding guilds that complained about death. We had no problem going back and getting a shard. Heck, we were on our way back again anyway to give it another shot. And yet, this is a change that is mostly going to affect us. A casual player is not switching out resist gear, weapons and tower shields to group up in SoS. But on a raid, you must. And it's not like it's a new thing to change gear, you have always had to do it. </font></p><p><font color="#33ccff">Lastly, the really nice gear is a reward for the TIME, EFFORT and FRUSTRATION that goes into testing a mob/zone for hours on end. We already had repair costs, only now you are making them more expensive for no reason at all. As far as it going right more often that not... well... again, you don't know raiding. </font></p>

[Jasonskywalk]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:<div></div>Some more thoughts on this matter.- taking off your gear for a quick evac = bad.  i've never done this and don't like it.  but there must be other ways to combat this "technique" without effecting the following legitimate reasons.- raid wiping because of bogus raid mob's pathing, random agro = bad.  fix this and I'll happily die 1000 times over on legitimate raid encounters.  but being killed without even attacking a mob is bad coding.  with the strip macro, people at least had a chance to save their gear on those occasions.- switching out weapons and resist gear on an encounter = this point psses me off.  i'm livid about this.  <font color="#ff0033">if I'm using one weapon, then changing to another, not one person has explained here why I shuold accept 20% dmg instead of 10% if I die.  it's in my bag for goodness sake and shouldn't be damaged.</font>For all the talk, there's been but a few responses from people who actually know what they're talking about.  No one has a problem with this change to remove the evac trick.  For the narrow minded, they think it's all about the repair costs.  It's not the cost that concerns me but the principal.  I accept death.  Debt, shards, repair costs are something we've experienced in this game.  But why make me pay x2 now if I'm switching out gear mid fight and die.I pretty much hate this game now after being force fed crap like this for over a year.  It's not about not wanting to accept change.  For me it's about having to try and fight for the things we take for granted in this game.  This new offline broker system for example is the pits.  We got people stating they are being ripped off and not getting their money from offline sales.  But over the course of EQ2 being live, there's always an issue with this game.  There's always something that's [Removed for Content] off the populice.  Like any bad relationship, alot dont' know when to walk away.  I'll freely admit to being one of those persons.  But now it's becoming clear this game will always pull the rug from under us.  It will always be this way.  SOE care about the bottom line and that's revenue.  Buggy raid mobs, broken quests, gear with stats a character can't even use (deflection on a mage cap for instance).  It's endless.  Once LU22 hits and this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] change goes live, they'll hit us with another POS idea come LU23.  LU24 will no doubt do the same.<p>Message Edited by digitalblasphemy on <span class="date_text">04-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:27 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Ok so your saying that you use two weapons in your fight, and yet you should only pay for the last one you used in your dying battle?  How does that make sence?  If I were to use two then I would expect to pay upkeep on those two weapons that I used? are you saying that your staff never gets chipped, and your dagger never gets dull?  I'd love some equipment like that.  You pay the penalty because you use thsoe two weapons in that battle, if you never switched weapons then you would only incur the upkeep for that one weapon when you died.  That's hwy you are paying for the two weapons rather than the one.  You use it you pay upkeep when you die, it's that simple.  Dont' like it? then don't switch weapons and you'll never have to worry abou that aspect of your raiding.  But if switching wepaons and gear is essential then accept it as an addtional cost of raiding and such.  I as a non-raider would expect to pay repair costs on the weapons I used in a battle that I died in.

[Lydiae]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Terabethia wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#33ccff">So yea... we are VERY unhappy about this change. In the end, it is the RAIDERS most affected by it, but yet it was the casual and lazy players that used the naked death exploit that made them change it. </font></p><hr></blockquote><p>Interesting choice of words... "exploit".  It's good that you see this for what it was, though I wouldn't go as far as to call it an exploit, I just think it's cheap. </p><p>As for casual players bringing this on you're going to have to provide some proof, because the only people I see complaining here are the raiders.</p><p>And I don't hate raiders, I hate whiners, prima donnas and drama queens.</p>

[Scort]

<div></div><div></div><font color="#6699cc"><font color="#3399cc"><span><span></span></span></font></font><blockquote><hr>eq2john wrote:<div></div><font color="#6699cc"><font color="#3399cc">..............<font color="#ff9900">Yet at present, by a neat trick of unequiping gear, raiders can negate a vast portion of the risk by avoiding repair costs</font>. It is not to offend any raider, but imo if I were a raider I'd accept the consequences for going after the best items in the game. It seems a fair trade off, considering the rewards raiders can achieve when everything goes right, more often than it goes wrong.................</font></font><hr></blockquote>No, at present, by a neat trick of unequipping gear, raiders can avoid cost associated with all the bugs and untested content that cause massive amounts of deaths beyond the control of the raiders. We STILL get our gear knocked off eventually and we still pay massive amounts of repair cost.We very rarely get anything to help pay for those cost. When you spend 4 hours in a zone and only get maybe 3 or 4 decent pieces a week but, you have 24 people with busted gear from the bugs and untested content, that's a huge negative for the raiders.The very few pieces of gear we do manage to get out of bug ridden zone/encounter and dying to death bugs, is payment for all the time and effort we put into it, not for the deaths we suffer and excessive repair cost we deal with.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:11 PM</span></p>

[digitalblasphemy]

The GoAA raid is a perfect example of how raiders get killed multiple times due to 1 death.  This is due to the mob not resetting and coming after people who revived but didn't engage the mob.  The raid mob will continue to re-kill people it has just killed regardless of whether they have engaged or re-engaged the mob.  The raid mob will not stop until the entire raid force is dead.  Obviously the solution to this is to not have anyone revive until every single person is dead on the ground.  Once that happens the raid mob will reset.  The problem is of course some people do revive and voila peeps are dead again.  This is buggy as hell.  People are not supposed to be killed if they did not engage the mob.  What to speak of being re-killed if you revived.  When it's obvious the raid mob has gone [Removed for Content] and needs to be reset, people quite often take off their gear as more deaths are on the way.  No one has a problem being killed on a legitimate raid encounter.  If your tactics are not up to scratch, you die.  But what makes me livid, is the buggy code, mobs, zones etc. that will now continue to affect us in this BS manner.  If I had swapped out a weapon on the first legitimate attempt and died, i take 2 hits to my weapons.  I get rezzed or revive and the raid is [Removed for Content], I take an additional 2 hits to my weapons.  So now I have to pay for 4 repairs to weapons on only 1 legitimate death.If you don't raid and havn't experienced this, then please leave the comments of trying to cheat the system out.  In such above cases, removing your armor was justified.  No one was trying to cheat.  Rather they were making the best of a bad situation where SOE had failed to address the glaringly obvious bug ridden raid encounters.This 2min timer is not going to stop people from taking off their armor, waiting 2mins and then dying to get an evac.  It takes far longer to run back from deep down in SE, than it does to wait 2mins.  Who this will affect are the raiders.What is mind boggling is the timer to switch out items in combat has been changed from 5secs to 2secs.  [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is that about?  Why?  Are you moking us or something?  Oh I get it now.  It's so we can switch out resist gear, weapons, shields, equipment for AA's etc. in combat, but we'll get hit with double equipment damage if we die within 2mins.Take the unequip macro commands out of game.  But don't screw us over with this 2min double armor damage rubbish.  If I used a power regen ring to get up to full power before a raid pull, then put it back in my bag and now equip my imbued ring, why does it get damaged if I die in the next 2mins?  It's in my bag.  It's right next to my other rings I havn't equipped that won't take any damage.  What logic is there to say it get's damaged.  I see people trying to answer this but they are falling short.  We already have mobs that eat our armor with their abilities.  I'm not going to accept another armor eating exercise.  I die, my armor takes dmg.  No problem.  I die, my armor in my bags takes damage, and maybe we should step outside and settle this.<div></div>

[Haapy]

<div>Simple, did you use the item for the benefit in current encounter? Then it gets damaged. It makes perfect sense to have every item that is used against the mob to get damaged in case of failure. Please leave the "it is unrealistic, its in a bag" comments out of this, but if you really want to go that route, then no armor EVER should be allowed to change once the combat starts, as stripping out of BP to put on another one is far harder to justify in RL terms.</div><div> </div><div>Point is, SoE has never envisioned this use for the macro. The game was designed with "10-deaths and you done" idea in mind. Just recently they gave you a way to go beyond those 10 deaths, but at a price. Patch kits are not designed to save you money, they are designed to extend your raid, thats about it. It is a convenience. But from what I undestand, they repair ALL broken gear that you have to 40%, meaning that if 2-3 sets that are broken they will repair 80%-120% total, probably saving you some cash in the end anyway. Once again though, the game was designed from the very beginning to limit the number of times you die before you have to give up and go to mender, just because people have found a creative way to circumvent this does not change the original design. Finally SoE is doing something to fix this.</div><div> </div><div>Right now eq2 raiding is so freaking easy mode as is, its not even funny. Please tell me how long it took you to go through the NToV? Emp and VT? how about PoTime? in eq1 guilds beat their heads against mobs for months, getting only 1-2 shots a week against a name, and it was fine. Keep in mind that most stuff was contested as hell, and you might get a chance maybe once a month. And after all that, most people did not give up and kept on it. Here we are whining that we ONLY get 10 shots for free against an instanced mob, and for the extra attempts we need to pay trivial pittance? People actually complaining that mobs are more social now? Wow! (yes, there is a pun)</div><div> </div><div>As far as bugs, well you see them, you learn them, you avoid them. That has been true since Verrant days, and in many other mmos. If you have idiots reviving after the raidleader explain the situation and AFTER 2-3 wipes, perhaps it is time to clean the roster.</div><div> </div><div>To sum this up:</div><div> </div><div>1. If item used to gain advantage against the mob, it gets damaged</div><div> </div><div>2. Game was intended with the limit on attempts in mind, be happy they extended them</div><div> </div><div>3. Use of macro to circumvent the limit on attempts or the death penalty is not part of game design, it is a loophole that going to be plugged.</div><div> </div><div>4. Eq2 is easy and really fast as is without loopholes, please dont say that you are weaker and less skilled than millions that played eq1 and dealt with far more issues for years  than you will ever face here.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Anestacia]

I have to agree with Haapy 100%.  And before you flame me for not being a raider please just dont.  I have raided in EQ1 and EQ2 highend for 6 years and I do not see what the huge deal is.  Yes fabled gear repairs are pricy...they should be.  Very rarely will you do 2 "named" or "toguh" encounters within a 2 minute time period.  If you switch gear during a fight to further the advancement of that mob then it SHOULD have a penalty.  And you can argue diffrent points about this but thats the fact.  And yes some of the time it is not possible to predict if you are going to wipe and remove your gear but sometimes you do and take advantage of that.  Basically if it advances your target (even if you wipe) by switching gear, whether it be a weapon or resist gear, it helped during the winning of your fight so should take damage on the failure.  Agree or disagree but thats my opinion.<div></div>

[Solaran_X]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Terabethia wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#33ccff">So yea... we are VERY unhappy about this change. In the end, it is the RAIDERS most affected by it, but yet it was the casual and lazy players that used the naked death exploit that made them change it. </font></p><hr></blockquote><p>So...if the raiders use an unequip macro to avoid repair costs while a raid is in the process of wiping (and this includes a /yell command - which will strip all your gear instantly), it's all gravy. But if anyone besides a raider (your exact words were 'the casual and lazy players', therefore either implying that all casual players are lazy or that you were specifically targetting the casuals alongside the lazy) uses the exact same macro the raiders use...it's an exploit?</p><p>How is it any different for a raider to /yell and use their unequip macro than it is for a casual or non-raider to /yell and use their unequip macro?</p><p>It's not.</p><p>So by your own words, it's an exploit. But it's not limited to just the casuals and the lazy players (please note I'm L70 and I've never once used an unequip macro, I viewed it as cheating and an exploit from when it was discovered) who are exploiting...you raiders are abusing the exact same exploit, so it's just as much your fault as everyone else's fault who has used this exploit to save a few gold.</p>

[Scort]

Just another thing to run off even more players. Why don't they think of the implications of a change before making it?In a time when they are really desperate to get more people here playing, they continue with things that do nothing but give people mroe reason to leave.No, people may not leave over this one item but, you add in the lack of content, the changes like this wihtout fixing the bugs that caused people to use it, the bugged content all the time, the boring [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] zones that you have to farm day in and day out for no loot at all but, major repair bills, and so on and so on and it all adds up to no fun in the game and people leave. It's just another reason added to the list.I have spent 10p in repairs in the past 2 weeks easily and have got nothing in return to help pay for those cost. The few items I have got to wear is not repayment for the repair cost, it's repayment for my time and effort. They refuse to equip the mobs with even trash loot that you can sell. Mil+ mobs that drop nothing but cause repair.People just don't get it. The dev team just isn't getting it so, they continue ot have more and more unhappy customers.

[OrcSlayer96]

<div>Many people were complaining about no or little penalties in the game, now you have it.  The carpenter crafted repair kits will repair all broken or damaged gear UP to 40%.  The posters who said you could have multiple repair kits to boost it to 80% and higher must not have used the new repair kit.  I was kinda hoping it would be like the loyal subscirber claims version that repairs all gear to 100% but every little helps...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Irregardless of casual/raider or in between view of posters, you can not deny the fact that many people use the strip gear macro as avoidance to damage or a quick ghetto evac for the classes that dont have evac or call spells up.  Even with this change i will still occasionallyuse the strip macro if i know it is iffy on the results, like trying to jump on that chain in barrensky or the small island on the bonemire area.  Call it what you will but in a combat situation the strip macro is truely bending the rules, dealing in non combat situations that require accurate jumping and hoping for no lag is something entirely different. </div>

[Kassanthala]

<div></div><p>You all DO realize that you can't use the unequip macro in combat????????</p><p>-First of all you can only use it AFTER you break the encounter (in which case you'll get nothing anyways).</p><p>-Second of all by the time someone uses the /yell command to break the encounter half the raid is down anyways as no one is gonna /yell an encounter until its a very obvious wipe. </p><p>-Half the time the /yell command doesn't get called  and you wipe anyway.</p><p>-The MT's never get to use it.</p><p>-Using it maybe 1 in 10+ times during the course of a learning raid is hardly an exploit or a huge advantage.</p><p>-You get nothing on raids, nothing at all unless you are very very very lucky to win one of the 2-4 drops out of 24 people. Any other trash loot, whatever there is of it is usually assigned to random people or sold for guild funds. Yeah, um that droag ribcage and droag horn that was all we got in 3 hours of Labs is gonna go along a way towards repair costs.</p><p>-As for balance - in groups you /yell an enounter and you can get away - no death penalty, in raids you /yell and you can't get away, you unequip, no death penalty. If they wanted to put in this change for added death penalties (and im for them btw) then do it across the board for every player. Or better yet, find something else that is truly balanced for every player.</p><p>I just don't understand this. If raiders were using it EVERY time or something I could see the reason for a nerf but it hardly gets used enough, can hardly get used enough to make it a difference.</p>

[Chog]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kassanthala wrote:<div></div><p>You all DO realize that you can't use the unequip macro in combat????????</p><p>-First of all you can only use it AFTER you break the encounter (in which case you'll get nothing anyways).</p><p>-Second of all by the time someone uses the /yell command to break the encounter half the raid is down anyways as no one is gonna /yell an encounter until its a very obvious wipe. </p><p>-Half the time the /yell command doesn't get called  and you wipe anyway.</p><p>-The MT's never get to use it.</p><p>-Using it maybe 1 in 10+ times during the course of a learning raid is hardly an exploit or a huge advantage.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote>It looks like the Unequip macro does not help save gear / repair costs that much (from your points).  Since the unequip macro has such little impact why would you care if it was removed?

[dparker7]

<div></div><div>This wont effect ghettovac except that it now has a 2 minute timer, which is often preferrable. </div><div> </div><div>For the people arguing that any item used to your advantage for an encounter should be damaged, that might well be a plausible idea.  But that is in no way what they are implementing.  They are implementing a simple timer.  It cant differentiate at all.  Im some cases it might get everything used in an encounter, and in some it wont.  Some encounters will last longer than 2 minutes and the timer wont care.  There is no logic to the system, just a clock.   </div><div> </div><div><div>Frankly, this change wont add too much cost to raiding, but if they wanted to change the unequip macro, they should have made epic encounters un /yell able.  It could fix several of the problems, and maybe also avoid some bugs from popping up.  Plus it avoids the completely illogical timer "solution". </div><div> </div><div>Also, the unequip macro never extended the number of chances a raid got at a mob.  If you raided, you'd know that the raid lasts as long as the MT has primary gear.  The MT almost never gets to use the macro as he is generally the first to die, often ridiculously quickly.</div><div> </div><div>PS - I <em>love</em> the suggestion that people should need to farm greys for an hour a day to be able to afford to raid.  Raiding is enough of a time sink, and I cant imagine having to farm for an hour a day with my guardian to be able to afford it.  Talk about absloutely no fun.</div></div><p>Message Edited by dparker713 on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:06 AM</span></p>

[joe2sgirl]

i agree with who ever said it doesnt make sense that the ring ya just took off takes dmg if ya die within 2 minutes of takein it off.. but the bracelet next to it doesnt...that makes absolutely no sense imo..also... anyone else notice how many people cant spell sense? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[thedu]

If the unequip macro command is such huge exploit then why not just take it out of the game?  Simple as that.I agree with another poster. This has nothing to do with the macro or dieing to zone. It's all about the plat. It's to make more of a money sink and people to craft more of the repair kits.<div></div>

[Krooner]

<div><blockquote><hr>thedump wrote:If the unequip macro command is such huge exploit then why not just take it out of the game?  Simple as that.I agree with another poster. This has nothing to do with the macro or dieing to zone. It's all about the plat. It's to make more of a money sink and people to craft more of the repair kits.<div></div><hr></blockquote>There is an even simpler solution.  If it is such a hugh exploit just take the "YELL FOR HELP" command out of the game and no one will be able to use such macros.</div>

[Severed Ha]

<div>Im both ways on this whole issue..  Personally though I would opt to have Decay itself put into the game instead.  IE..  Anytime you use an item in combat it takes damage.  This is both good and bad in that the more things you fight the faster your gear will wear out.. Which is alot more realistic anywas.  And if you dont use the armor/wpns all that much IE.. you are just online chatting then the decay is very minimal.  You could for instance put in a decay rate of say 1% for every 2 hours of play.  During combat this becomes a 1% to 1 hour ratio or something.  Can leave in the standered repair methods and on top of that it would add there much desired money sink.</div>

[thedu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Severed Hand wrote:<div>Im both ways on this whole issue..  Personally though I would opt to have Decay itself put into the game instead.  IE..  Anytime you use an item in combat it takes damage.  This is both good and bad in that the more things you fight the faster your gear will wear out.. Which is alot more realistic anywas.  And if you dont use the armor/wpns all that much IE.. you are just online chatting then the decay is very minimal.  You could for instance put in a decay rate of say 1% for every 2 hours of play.  During combat this becomes a 1% to 1 hour ratio or something.  Can leave in the standered repair methods and on top of that it would add there much desired money sink.</div><hr></blockquote>I believe this was the original concept for EQ2 but it was never implemented as such.</span><div></div>

[Arthais]

<div>News from the summit!</div><div> </div><div>I brought this issue up at the community summit yesterday, especially about how achievements actually encourage item swaps and this may be overly penalizing.</div><div> </div><div>I got the response that the EQ2 team is currently testing a modified system, instead of damaging any gear on within 2 minutes, only the most expensive to repair item in each slot within 2 minutes will take a durability hit.  So if you swap out an expensive tower shield for a cheaper buckler, and then die, the tower sheidl will take the durability hit, but the buckler will not.  Gear that has stayed on within the 2 minutes will obviously be the one that takes damage.</div>

[Severed Ha]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Arthais_CR wrote:<div>News from the summit!</div><div> </div><div>I brought this issue up at the community summit yesterday, especially about how achievements actually encourage item swaps and this may be overly penalizing.</div><div> </div><div>I got the response that the EQ2 team is currently testing a modified system, instead of damaging any gear on within 2 minutes, only the most expensive to repair item in each slot within 2 minutes will take a durability hit.  So if you swap out an expensive tower shield for a cheaper buckler, and then die, the tower sheidl will take the durability hit, but the buckler will not.  Gear that has stayed on within the 2 minutes will obviously be the one that takes damage.</div><hr></blockquote>This has one slit problem.. What if for instance you are using 2 Cobalt wpns.  One is Slash other is a Piercer..  You swap them out in middle of combat seeing that the mob is almost immune to one of the.  Party wipes.. ok.. there both the same quality and should be same price..  So what one takes the damage.

[Shadoerider]

<div>From what the patch notes say both will take damage. anything equiped within the 2min mark of dieing takes damage</div><div> </div><div>yea that's nice =/</div><div> </div><div>Just another fun filled way to get money out of the game and into the void.</div><div> </div><div>Buy lots of repair kits cause I think you are going to need them.</div>

[Rijacki]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Shadoerider wrote:<div>From what the patch notes say both will take damage. anything equiped within the 2min mark of dieing takes damage</div><div> </div><div>yea that's nice =/</div><div> </div><div>Just another fun filled way to get money out of the game and into the void.</div><div> </div><div>Buy lots of repair kits cause I think you are going to need them.</div><hr></blockquote>Read what Arthais said. Fan Faire information is from yesterday and directly out of the mouth of.. umm.. I think it was Scott Hartsman at the mic for that procouncement (yesterday is a little fuzy on the edges right now *laugh*).The change announced yesterday in the combat arts and spells panel at Fan Faire is their intended change for when it goes Live (they did not say if that change would go to Test first, but I imagine it will).</span></div>

[Kyriel]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>thedump wrote:If the unequip macro command is such huge exploit then why not just take it out of the game?  Simple as that.I agree with another poster. This has nothing to do with the macro or dieing to zone. It's all about the plat. It's to make more of a money sink and people to craft more of the repair kits.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Exactly. IF this was all about the whole get naked macro... SOE would completly disable the macro AND/OR keep this 2 minute death penatly to your armor thing.  But you can use the macro... no problem, but you still get a penalty to your armor.</p><p>As you can see.. the macro will still be in the game, but now its just going to be your MOST EXPENSIVE item that is going to be broken. You people are argueing and rambling about nothing. Its just a money sink.</p>

[Atrocity]

This seems like quite a bit of convoluted coding and to what end?   Want to drain more money, just raise prices or something.  Put the devs to work on more meaningful things.  I'm sure there are even more complicated ways to remove money from the game and waste dev time on.  Can't wait to see what else SoE comes up with.<div></div>

[Xxooo-Coav]

<div></div><div>Thank God for Feign Death    = )</div><div> </div><div>Reading this thread though, alot of you have really bad attitudes. Glad to say I am not on your servers.</div><div>/wave to the ***holes that can do nothing but laugh at this.</div><div> </div>

[selch]

<p>That's one of the best change ever going live.</p><p> </p>

[Lisabethy]

I have used this macro and honestly am torn right now. Yes, there should be penalty for dying and you shouldn't be able to avoid a complete penalty in dying. That being said, until Sony works out the bugs in every zone, not just raid zone, that keeps mobs from porting with you during evac, chasing you all the way across a zone, continuing to aggro once a battle has been lost, then why should I have to pay that penalty in such a harsh manner?  A few people have pointed out the encounters in Gates and honestly, that's the best example there is.  The first time we took on the snakes, the raid wiped. We called revive and everyone revived at the same time and guess what? The snakes came from across the zone to kill us again. And again. And then once more for good measure. So we, as a raid force learned that if we wiped to that encounter, we revived and immediately stipped our gear because the snakes would come again and again until *they* decided to reset. It didn't matter how long we laid there dead, or if everyone danced the hokey-pokey right after reviving. If the raid wiped, we never got to revive in peace - we always died at least once more but usually 2 or 3 times more.Now tell me, why should an entire raid force take armor hits 3 or 4 times off one legitimate wipe? And the change of only charging for the most expensive piece is obviously an attempt at a compromise, however, what if you change out your chest piece, pants and boots for resist gear between fight attempts, but don't time it properly and pull before the 2 minutes are up? Then, even though that was a legitimate gear change, you're taking a much steeper penalty.I don't know what the solution is, however, it is definitely not something that should go through until the bugs are worked out. When mobs are wiping people because of bugged coding, it's not fair to charge the players for that.That's just my 2 copper and I'd like my change please !<div></div>

[Dirtgirl]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Ummmm, yeah I have a problem with removing my fabled jewelery to put on some resist pieces for an AoE mob, die, then find all my primary gear damaged. Funny how those who argue most against this aren't argueing about cost at all, yet if what comes from fanfair is accurate, SOE only sees it from a cost perspective. I have learned to start any new raid zone in a mix of my decent and hard earned back up gear and my primary gear. That way I am assured to have most of my best gear for the end. If any death I take damages only my PRIMARY gear set while I'm wearing my secondary set, I will be livid. I couldn't give a s#!t about how much it costs to fix, it's not about that. It's about how effectively I can do my job with the items I have available to me and for how long, as well as my knowledge and ability to squeeze every last drop of functionality out of those items. I carry almost three complete sets of gear with me at all times, sometimes 5 or 6 of any one item for the resists on them, and I REALLY REALLY see a problem with the gear in my pack taking damage and not the gear on my body.I can deal with not being able to get naked in an instant if a raid is wiping. Especially since I have learned how to manage my gear effectively anyway. I've never complained about repair costs. I wasn't thrilled to hear about the whole 2 minute thing, but I can handle that. I CAN NOT see myself accepting having the gear that I am not wearing taking damage just because it is the "most valuable" gear I have.</p><p>That has simply got to be the single WORST idea I have ever heard.</p><p>If you want a plat sink, Sony, why not just make all instances have a per person fee that scales with level and number of players entering. Or how about a fee to use all forms of transportation? Zoning fees besides tickets at the docks?Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?Well so does gear I am not wearing taking damage just because it is "worth more" than the other items. Especially since what item is "worth more" changes pretty drastically from fight to fight.</p><p><font color="#99ff99">*edit   Yeah, just saw it said it would still fall within the two minute window, so not quite as uppity as I was, but still not happy about having gear I'm not wearing at time of death take damage. I have been know to swap out gear for resists mid fight, especially against a new encounter that we are learning AoEs on, or one that has a specific resistability to one type of melee attack. That is why I carry around two piercing and two slashing weapons to begin with as well as 3 types of arrows.</font></p><p><span class="time_text"><font size="5" color="#ffff99">JUST TAKE OUT THE /UNEQU FUNCTION !!!!!</font></span></p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Dirtgirl on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:47 AM</span></p>

[Rijacki]

Umm... the most expensive item which you have worn during that 2 mins, not the most expensive item you actually have.. otherwise it would even affect gear that one cannot wear at all (like the gear you carry with you when you are about to ding 'cause you want to don it right away and not have to go back for it).<div></div>

[Mistmoore-Milaga]

They want to take out the ability to remove gear before death to avoid damage to it.  Removing the /unequip function will do that, but will also hurt people who use that macro for other functions, like swapping out gear quickly and so on.  It's not the solution, I suppose they've found it and just need to tweak it a bit.Besides, before I got ahold of that macro I was pretty good at removing my gear before death anyway.  I'm not bothered by this terribly.<div></div>

[Arhan]

<P>I tend to use the macro a lot for various reasons such as mobs killiing u and your raid/group after u revive etc.  GoAA and zones are still broken with reviving.  I also tend to prespawn the traps, scout naked, and test things outside of the raid before the raid pulls so we don't make silly mistakes on new encounters.  So I do enjoy having this macro to actually remove gear fast for legit reasons as mentioned.  What good is the macro tab without some sort of functionality? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   Though I'd rather have the macro removed completely, then this stupid 2min timer idea.</P> <P>Also I can report that Vaults, HoF, and other zones mobs still chase you to zone in after an evac it happened last night though it does seem better.  Fix these issues, and decrease the cost of kits to make, or increase the % repair kits repair.   I got no problems with 10% off my armor for legit deaths.  Surely there is a much better solution then what has been mentioned or proposed on test so far...</P><p>Message Edited by Arhan on <span class=date_text>04-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:20 AM</span>