please fix Sanctum of the Scaleborn!

[Beebl]

<div>My group was working on the Claymore line quests late late night in Sanctum of the Scaleborn 2(SoS for short). When we went in there were 2 SoSs open due to lots of people in SoS 1. So while running around getting updates our healer goes LD while in the fountain room. 45 seconds later he logs back in only to discover he was put in to SoS 1 fountain room. There were not as many people in SoS 1 anymore so they closed the option SoS 2 with us and another group in there. Needless to say the healer was killed pretty quick. We had no conjuror in our group so had no choice but to evac back to zone in to meet up with the healer and fight our way back down. Half way down, it happens again. Our tank goes LD and when he logs back on, blam! he is in SoS 1... over all it made the night pretty bad. We ended up having to go into SoS1 (with 30+ people in it) and had to wait our turn to camp the named we needed for the update.</div><div> </div><div>If someone goes LD in a zone, if people are still IN that zone, they should be put back into that zone, not a different instance of that zone.</div>

[Magu]

This is how multiple instances of a zone has ALWAYS worked, there's nothing new here with sanctum.<div></div>

[MrMartin]

<div></div><p>Same thing happened to my group a couple of days ago.</p><p>We were in SoS 2 when 3ppl in the group went LD at the same time(including myself).</p><p>We all got ported to the same spot but in SoS 1 and got chewed up pretty quickly by themobs that aggroed us there.</p><p>You should be put back in the same instance with your group...</p><p> </p>

[Magu]

Except once you're out of game, you're not in a group. There's nothing to send you back to.<div></div>

[Chefren]

If you rejoin the group, zone out and then zone back in you should be able to select sanctum 2 since a part of your group is already there. Also if you go to char select after the crash and spam the login, you should be able to get back into your group as long as you log in while linkdead (that is after you get the ld flag but before you are logged out).<div></div>

[Despak]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:Except once you're out of game, you're not in a group. There's nothing to send you back to.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Magus I know you love the Devs, so I'm suprised you cannot even remember the Devs saying that an LD should bring you back to your group when ou log back in. </p><p>Regardless of how it works or in this case doesn't, it it idiotic of SoE to cause this to happen, what is the point in a group member LDing and being brought back in a different instance?</p>

[Magu]

If you connect while your character is actually LINKDEAD, it does work.Once you are COMPLETELY logged out of the game, you are NOT linkdead, and the dev statement does NOT apply.<div></div>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:This is how multiple instances of a zone has ALWAYS worked, there's nothing new here with sanctum.<div></div><hr></blockquote></span><span>So constructive... again...  This is a bug and has to be fixed.</span><div></div>

[Magu]

No, it's a design choice. They don't want you to be able to camp out in a 2nd instance and then return to that at a later time if the instance was closed, to prevent a single person constantly spawning new instances.<div></div>

[Timaarit]

Since they are able to time it with epic instances, I dont see any reason why they couldn't use that timer with this also. People who go LD, are back in a minute or two, if they are intentionally kicked from the zone to an earlier version, it is flawed desing and must be fixed. To give the benefit of doubt, I call it a bug instead of crappy design.<div></div>

[Magu]

There is no timer with epic zones - INSTANCES follow different rules - you're tied to a specific version of the instance when you zone in, and as long as one other person stays in there, you zone into the still-open instanced.Normal zones that allow multiple instances, like overland zones and Sanctum don't work the same way.Suppose I'm adventuring one day and I camp out in Sanctum 2.  Two hours later, the population drops low enough that Sanctum 2 is no longer available and everyone leaves, closing the instance.If you had it your way, it would respawn the ENTIRE instance when I logged in again, just to let me zone back to the exact place I camped. They don't want people to be able to hold an instance like that, so if the 2nd instance isn't actually "available" it won't let you zone back if you camp out.The thing you have to know is that there is no difference at all between going LD due to connection issues, using /quit or /exit, and camping normally. Offline is offline. They can't allow LD or /exits to zone back, or people would just /exit or kill the eq2 process to bypass the rule and hold an instance open.<div></div>

[Timaarit]

So you are trying to prove that it is crappy design and working as intended? You do realize that they could easily apply a similar timer as in the instances for logging in and out? But still you are here to defend a crappy desing (or possibly even a bug).<div></div>

[Magu]

What part of "there is no timer" did you miss?Here, I'll say it again: there is no timer involved. As such, there's nothing to "apply" to other types of zones.The issue you mention is indeed annoying, but that's the price you pay for trying to hold an instance open longer then you're supposed to.  As I mentioned, that happens when the first version is not populated enough to warrant a second.<div></div>

[Timaarit]

Of course there is a timer. I can easily log out and back in while doing an instance, even if I log back about 5 mins later, I will be in the same instance as the rest of the group/raid. But if it takes about 20 minutes for me to log back, I will find myself outside the zone. If there is no timer, this wouldn't be possible, either I would be kicked out from the instance when I log, or if I log back in 24h later, I would still log back to the instance if there is even one member left there.<div></div>

[Magu]

We've had people log out of a raid zone for over an hour and still zone back in, so I'm not seeing where there's a timer.<div></div>

[Timaarit]

Hmm, come to think of it, I haven't tried that since before LU13 because at least then there was a timer.<div></div>

[Sir Blig]

<div></div><div><p><span>As long as the instance is still up you should be able to get back into it, the only time you should be bounced outside is if everyone left and the instance closed,</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>If they were in the 2nd instance and 5 people from the group were still there when the 6th logs back in, it should have remember he was in the 2nd instance and put him there.</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>I would call this a bug, if they designed it this way then it is a bad way of doing it, if they wanted to stop people leaving one person in zone to hole it open then use last login from the toon, i.e. if not longer than 15 or so min since last logged in and the zone is still open put them back where they were.<font color="#000000"></font></span></p></div>

[Mage-Apprentice]

<div>You need to relog FASTER, so you are still in the group when you logg back.</div><div>There is a period where your character is still in the world and you can log back, this is when someone is link-death.</div><div>Some time later the game kicks you out of te game and group, and than you may log back in instance nr1.</div><div>I have plenty of time to restart eq2, I often even get the "you have already a character in game" error (meaning I am not even link-death yet)</div>

[Sir Blig]

<div></div><p>hmm yesterday I was near spamming the key and every time when I got back i was out of group, (happened 3 times)</p><p>in the past i had little problem even if i didnt rush </p><p>maby that is the/a bug, reduced timer perhaps?</p>

[Beebl]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:What part of "there is no timer" did you miss?Here, I'll say it again: there is no timer involved. As such, there's nothing to "apply" to other types of zones.The issue you mention is indeed annoying, but that's the price you pay for trying to hold an instance open longer then you're supposed to.  As I mentioned, that happens when the first version is not populated enough to warrant a second.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Im not trying to Hold the zone open. So what your saying is I should look to see how many people are in zone.. oh look there are 2 groups... we should prob leave the zone and go to SoS 1 because we are 'trying to hold an instance open longer then you're supposed to'... um no.. we were exping/questing for a few hours. Zones expand and shrink. The zone is still open. It is not like i was the only person in the zone when i went LD. It is not like i cant get back in by rejoining my group and zoning out and back in.... the problem is when you are deep inside and you go LD for 1 min.. just 1 min... not 14 hours later... 1 min you get put in a different zone. We are not trying to cheat the system, we are not trying to do anything against the rules. We were just exping/questing.  I was not farming the zone. Just exping. All this did was make our night not very fun because of the way it is now. If you go LD in a zone and the zone is still up when you get back from an LD (1 min LD) then you should be put back in the zone you were in.</p><p>I can just see that.... sorry guys the zone now only has 12 people in it.. we should prob leave and try to head to the other zone with 40 people in it... lol... yes your right magus.... get a clue.</p>

[Magu]

You realize that you could've all instantly jumped to sanctum 1 by quickly camping out/in, right? So you could've just joined the odd man out, instead of trying to stay in 2 :p<div></div>

[Timaarit]

You do realize that then they would propably have died one by one as they relog? <span>:smileywink:</span><div></div>

[Magu]

Bah, there are plenty of spots where a single person could survive long enough <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Just back into a corner.<div></div>

[Sir Blig]

<div></div><p>So for SOE's bug or poor programing with that logic, if in a 2nd instance if anyone goes LD everyone quickly logs out and in just in case?</p><p> </p><p>Does not sound like a good solution to me, if SOE tied this down then they over did it, otherwise accept it is a BUG agree with th OP and phone SOE for the OP and tell them to fix it</p>

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><div></div><div>The key, at least for me, in recovering from an LD, is staying at the computer, immediately attempting to log in through the select character option, and hitting login again every time it fails. When I have done this I have never had a problem getting back into the group I left.</div><div> </div><div>If you select your name and try to login it will give you an error and you will have to restart the launcher. By using the select character option you will only get a dialogue box which says you have an active player in the game. If you keep cancelling out that box and retrying you shouldn't have a problem.</div><div> </div><div>Hope this helps.</div><div> </div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:03 AM</span></p>

[KBern]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Despak wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:Except once you're out of game, you're not in a group. There's nothing to send you back to.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Magus I know you love the Devs, so I'm suprised you cannot even remember the Devs saying that an LD should bring you back to your group when ou log back in. </p><p>Regardless of how it works or in this case doesn't, it it idiotic of SoE to cause this to happen, what is the point in a group member LDing and being brought back in a different instance?</p><hr></blockquote><p>I dont think they ever said that because Magus is correct.</p><p>Think about it...if you go LD you might as well have turned off your computer in some cases and if you drop the group because of that LD, there is no way the system knows whos group you were in or what instance you should be in.</p><p>They said if you are IN a group and you zone into a zone with multiple instances, you will go to your groups one regardless....not regarding LD when you drop group.</p><p> </p>

[Terabethia]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>KBern wrote:<p>I dont think they ever said that because Magus is correct.</p><p>Think about it...if you go LD you might as well have turned off your computer in some cases and if you drop the group because of that LD, there is no way the system knows whos group you were in or what instance you should be in.</p><p>They said if you are IN a group and you zone into a zone with multiple instances, you will go to your groups one regardless....not regarding LD when you drop group.</p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#33ccff">This is correct, and I have to agree with Magus on this one. The Dev's never stated that once you left the game you could go back to your group. There is no way for the game to know why you are logged out, it can't tell if you went LD or if you just camped/quit out. They made the change so that if you are in a group and in an INSTANCE, you could get back to your group. This was done because instances have lockout timers, and people were getting screwed because of an LD. This same logic does not apply to regular zones, as there is no lockout. </font></p><p><font color="#33ccff">As it stands right now, it is working as SoE intended it. There is no bug, there is no poor programing, it's just how they want it. That's not to say they may not change it later on, however, I think that it would involve a lot of work (they would have to recode every zone) and it is just not nessary.</font></p><p><font color="#33ccff"></font> </p><p><font color="#33ccff"><font color="#66ffff"><strong>EDIT: </strong></font>I found the message from the LU that states this was intended ONLY for raid instances (from April 2005). As it is now, they are the only zones with the timers. </font></p><div><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Epic Encounters ***</font></strong></div><div> </div><div>- Characters that go linkdead in many instanced epic zones now have 10 minutes to reconnect. While linkdead, the character will have a timer above its head indicating how long the character will remain in the world.</div><p>Message Edited by Terabethia on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:28 AM</span></p>

[Beebl]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>The point im trying to make is there are still people in that zone (your group). Im not talking about im the only one in zone, i go LD and cant get back in that version of the zone. The zone is still open and i can still get access if i rejoin my group. The game remembers what zone you were in, it just choses to put you into a differnet instance of it. How do i know this? If there was enough people to still have mult instances this does not happen, it will put you back in SoS 2 or what ever version you were in. I can fully understand if it did not, but that has happen to me before also. I get a memory error, i shut the computer down completely, restart, start up EQ2 and log back in... im back in SoS 2 because there was enough people to have an SoS 2. It did not defult me to sos 1.</p><p>I cant see how this is suppost to be this way which make me assume it is a bug or oversite. Any dev input out there?</p><p>EDIT: Even if this is the way it is suppost to work i cant see how it is a good thing? All it does is become a major pain. /g Sorry guys, we just cleared for an hour to get down here, camped this named spawn for an hour for an update (claymore line quests) but the healer just went LD.. i guess we can just evac now, leave the instance we are in with 12 people, head over to the one with 39 people in it, and clear all over again to get down here and start camping again....and pray one of the other many groups in zone is not camping the same update....</p><p>Message Edited by Beebles on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:36 AM</span></p>

[Terabethia]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Beebles wrote:<div></div><p>The point im trying to make is there are still people in that zone (your group). Im not talking about im the only one in zone, i go LD and cant get back in that version of the zone. The zone is still open and i can still get access if i rejoin my group. The game remembers what zone you were in, it just choses to put you into a differnet instance of it. How do i know this? If there was enough people to still have mult instances this does not happen, it will put you back in SoS 2 or what ever version you were in. I can fully understand if it did not, but that has happen to me before also. I get a memory error, i shut the computer down completely, restart, start up EQ2 and log back in... im back in SoS 2 because there was enough people to have an SoS 2. It did not defult me to sos 1.</p><p>I cant see how this is suppost to be this way which make me assume it is a bug or oversite. Any dev input out there?</p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#33ccff">Actually, that is not the case. The game only remembers the last zone you were in, not what instance of the zone. If you go linkdead and your character fully leaves the game, when you log back in it will take to only to the zone you were in before, not nessarly the same instance. If there are two instances open, you will zone into whichever is available to outside characters and has less people. The situation that you are talking about in your original post is not that case. When you went LD, the 2nd instance of the zone was not open to everyone to enter as the first was not full again. Just because there is a second instance does not mean it's an open zone, which is evident by the fact that you first have to join the group before it allows you in. </font></p><p><font color="#33ccff">You can not expect the game to realize that you went linkdead and didn't just leave, plus remember what zone you were in and what instance, and also remember what group of people you were with. You are asking a bit too much. </font></p><p><font color="#33ccff">Sorry, but at this point, it's working as intended. </font></p>

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Beebles wrote:<div></div><p>The point im trying to make is there are still people in that zone (your group). Im not talking about im the only one in zone, i go LD and cant get back in that version of the zone. The zone is still open and i can still get access if i rejoin my group. The game remembers what zone you were in, it just choses to put you into a differnet instance of it. How do i know this? If there was enough people to still have mult instances this does not happen, it will put you back in SoS 2 or what ever version you were in. I can fully understand if it did not, but that has happen to me before also. I get a memory error, i shut the computer down completely, restart, start up EQ2 and log back in... im back in SoS 2 because there was enough people to have an SoS 2. It did not defult me to sos 1.</p><p>I cant see how this is suppost to be this way which make me assume it is a bug or oversite. Any dev input out there?</p><hr></blockquote><div>It really isn't a bug. If you "leave" the game, meaning exceed the LD timer, then you will only reappear in instances which are still accepting people. SoE cannot code to presume your reason for leaving, therefore LDs which exceed the timer will act as you describe.</div><div> </div><div>The only means you have to deal with this is to be quick logging back in.</div>

[Aeroslin]

I think the logic is a little askew.If you are in a group that is currently in a 2nd instance of a zone due to the high population of the 1st zone, so long as the 2nd zone still exists, a person that goes linkdead inside that 2nd instance should be allowed to return to that 2nd instance.  Again, ONLY if the 2nd instance exists even if it is not needed due to a lower population in the 1st instance.  If not, then they should pop to the 1st instance.My question is this: are there any contraints preventing someone from keeping their toon online inside of a 3rd or 4th instance if they happened to pop, then inviting group members into their own little zone, even after the need for the extra zone has expired?  If this is possible, seems like a pretty solid way to manipulate the game to your own end.<div></div>

[Beebl]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Terabethia wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#33ccff">Sorry, but at this point, it's working as intended. </font></p><hr></blockquote>ok... then please change my title to 'Please change how instances of a zone works to it is not a major pain to anyone in one of these zones that goes LD/camps in the zone and comes back with the zone still active but not avalible to anyone who is not currently in the zone unless they are in a group so my group does not have to evac to clear back to where we were....'

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Aeroslin wrote:I think the logic is a little askew.<font color="#ffff00">If you are in a group that is currently in a 2nd instance of a zone due to the high population of the 1st zone, so long as the 2nd zone still exists, a person that goes linkdead inside that 2nd instance should be allowed to return to that 2nd instance.</font>  Again, ONLY if the 2nd instance exists even if it is not needed due to a lower population in the 1st instance.  If not, then they should pop to the 1st instance.My question is this: are there any contraints preventing someone from keeping their toon online inside of a 3rd or 4th instance if they happened to pop, then inviting group members into their own little zone, even after the need for the extra zone has expired?  If this is possible, seems like a pretty solid way to manipulate the game to your own end.<div></div><hr></blockquote>In order for that to work the game would have to know why you left. Since it can't, that won't work.

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Beebles wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Terabethia wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#33ccff">Sorry, but at this point, it's working as intended. </font></p><hr></blockquote>ok... then please change my title to <font color="#ffff00">'Please change how instances of a zone works to it is not a major pain to anyone in one of these zones that goes LD/camps in the zone and comes back with the zone still active but not avalible to anyone who is not currently in the zone unless they are in a group so my group does not have to evac to clear back to where we were....'</font><hr></blockquote><div>LOL...that might be a litte too many characters for a title. But in all seriousness, most everyone here understands your frustration, and has probably shared something like it at some point. We are simply pointing out that the mechanic is there for a reason, and we see no solution to your problem that doesn't counteract that reason.</div><div> </div><div>The type of situations you describe are few and far between. Actually, in all of my EQ2 gaming, I cannot recall having the exact same thing happen to me. The changes needed to correc this rare situation would be far outweighed by the damage of "fixes."</div><div> </div><ul><li>The game has no way to know why you left the game short of an orderly exit.</li><li>Increasing the timer would suck for more people than it would help.</li><li>Allowing people to always log back into the zone they exited would increase system load.</li><li>Allowing people to always log back into the zone they exited could allow people to create "private" instances.</li></ul><div>I think anyone would entertain ideas if you have a solution that would not have larger detrimental effects than the problem it is correcting.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:57 AM</span></p>

[Beebl]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Kenazeer wrote:<div></div><div></div><ol><li>The game has no way to know why you left the game short of an orderly exit.</li><li>Increasing the timer would suck for more people than it would help.</li><li>Allowing people to always log back into the zone they exited would increase system load.</li><li>Allowing people to always log back into the zone they exited could allow people to create "private" instances.</li></ol><p>(i changed it to numbers so i can respond)</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>1. does not matter what reason i left, if the zone is still active (someone other then you in it) it should let you back in</p><p>2. there is no need for a timer, if the zone is still active it should let you back in</p><p>3. You can already get back in the zone the way it is now, you just have to zone out (after you revive from the many mobs that will kill you when you zone back in), have your group invite you, zone back in and have them evac, CotH, or die themselves to get back to zone in.</p><p>4. they would only be private if they were only open for you. But the zone is already active so it is not priviate.</p><p> </p><p>Please keep in mind, im not wanting it to open up a new instance for me because i was in SoS3 when i camped out a day ago... i just want back where i was last IF it is still active with other characters in it. If i camp out in SoS3 yesterday and when i log back on today there are enough people to have sos1, 2, and 3 open, it should put me back in SoS 3. If i log in and there is only enough for SoS1 then i should go to sos1.</p><p>Message Edited by Beebles on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:08 AM</span></p>

[KBern]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Beebles wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Kenazeer wrote:<div></div><div></div><ol><li>The game has no way to know why you left the game short of an orderly exit.</li><li>Increasing the timer would suck for more people than it would help.</li><li>Allowing people to always log back into the zone they exited would increase system load.</li><li>Allowing people to always log back into the zone they exited could allow people to create "private" instances.</li></ol><p>(i changed it to numbers so i can respond)</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>1. does not matter what reason i left, if the zone is still active (someone other then you in it) it should let you back in</p><p><font color="#ff0000">It does let you back...to the same one that any person just walking up to the zone can get into also.  It has no way to know anything about you once you close the connection to the game...it treats you as if you just logged in.  I am not sure why you cannot understand that.</font></p><p>2. there is no need for a timer, if the zone is still active it should let you back in</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Again, see the response to #1.  You are just getting to the zone and it opens up the same one it opens up for EVERYONE else JUST getting to the zone.</font></p><p>3. You can already get back in the zone the way it is now, you just have to zone out (after you revive from the many mobs that will kill you when you zone back in), have your group invite you, zone back in and have them evac, CotH, or die themselves to get back to zone in.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">That is correct....and that is the only way to get to the group's instance if you totally go LD, and leave your group and the game.</font></p><p>4. they would only be private if they were only open for you. But the zone is already active so it is not priviate.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Again see response #1 and #2.</font></p><p> </p><p>Please keep in mind, im not wanting it to open up a new instance for me because i was in SoS3 when i camped out a day ago... i just want back where i was last IF it is still active with other characters in it. If i camp out in SoS3 yesterday and when i log back on today there are enough people to have sos1, 2, and 3 open, it should put me back in SoS 3. If i log in and there is only enough for SoS1 then i should go to sos1.</p><p>Message Edited by Beebles on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:08 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>

[Lonst]

<div></div><div></div>I understand what everone is saying. I don't think it will be changed. But I have a question. If the game knows not only what zone but the location where you last were in the zone then how hard would it be to also add to the tag the instance number and check if the instance is still active when you zone back in. That would solve the problem I think and I don't see how it could be that hard to add to the tag the game maintains now. Right now the game does all of this BUT put you into the instance you LDed from.<p>Message Edited by Lonstar on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:55 AM</span></p>

[Terabethia]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lonstar wrote:<div></div><div></div>I understand what everone is saying. I don't think it will be changed. But I have a question. If the game knows not only what zone but the location where you last were in the zone then how hard would it be to also add to the tag the instance number and check if the instance is still active when you zone back in. That would solve the problem I think and I don't see how it could be that hard to add to the tag the game maintains now. Right now the game does all of this BUT put you into the instance you LDed from.<p>Message Edited by Lonstar on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:55 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#33ccff">They probably could add this, however, I am pretty certain that it would cause more problems than it would fix. If the game is trying to load you into Zone Instance #3, but #3 does not exist, what would happen? The game needs to default to something, and something needs to take priority. Something that is always there. In this case, only the zone and location in the zone is priority, not which instance. </font></p><p><font color="#33ccff">Here is the thing that people are not understanding about multiple instances of a zone. They are created and used only when the original has too many people. Just because you were in SoS 2 five minutes ago does not mean that you should nessarly be in there now. If SoS 1 does not have enough people, that needs to be full again before they allow the open public back into SoS 2. This is done to prevent people from just opening up too many of a zone. Think about it. Lets say you are in a very large guild with 200 members level 60+. You could bring them all in, make an SoS 2. Leave 1 group in, and meanwhile work on making an SoS 3. Then rince and repeat. Granted, this is far-fetched, but it is the easist way to explain the logic behind it. </font></p><p><font color="#33ccff">Again, this is not a bug. It is intended. There is already a way if you need to join or rejoin your group in an instance that is currently inactive (and please note the HUGE difference between active and open) by inviting them. This is enough, and trying to offer more will just cause more problems.</font></p>

[Lonst]

<div></div><div></div><p>Ok the difference between active and open, please explain. Because if I have not been in the zone but I want to join some guildies I must know what instance they are in to join them. But if they are in zone one or zone two I can join them in either so both are active and open in most cases. If not then how could I join my group in zone two if the game knows it can handle more people in zone one. It does not know I want to group only that I want to enter that zone.</p><p> </p><p>As far as people taking advanage of game machanics, that is the biggest problem with online gaming is the few who ruin things for the many.</p><p>Message Edited by Lonstar on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:20 AM</span></p>

[KBern]

<div></div><p>YOU are in a group, and your group is in SoS 2, and you zone in from TT, you will go to SoS2.</p><p>If you are not in a group, but you want to join a group in SoS 2 and you zone in, you may go to SoS 1 because of the SoS 2 being closed and not enough in SoS 1 anymore.</p><p>SO if you want to get into the same instance as your group, you need to be invited FIRST, then zone in SECOND.</p>

[Lonst]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>KBern, are you saying I can't go to zone two if zone one is not full? If I just want to watch my full group of guildies fight I thought I could zone into their zone if I wanted to. If not then why when you click on a zone with more then one instance must you chose which instance you want to enter?</p><p> </p><p>BTW I just want to understand. I am not trying to start anything. </p><p>Message Edited by Lonstar on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:31 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Lonstar on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:38 AM</span></p>

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Lonstar wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>KBern, are you saying I can't go to zone two if zone one is not full? If I just want to watch my full group of guildies fight I thought I could zone into their zone if I wanted to. If not then why when you click on a zone with more then one instance must you chose which instance you want to enter?</p><p> </p><p>BTW I just want to understand. I am not trying to start anything. </p><p>Message Edited by Lonstar on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:31 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Lonstar on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:38 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><div>I am not sure at what point a second instance "closes," though it seems to be at some point below the initial trigger. It may be a combination of numbers and time. For example: If SS hits 100, a new instance opens, if SS1 falls below X number(less than 100) for X time, SS2 will "close."</div><div> </div><div>You will only see the instances accepting ungrouped people on the zone selection window. So using the above example, if your guildies are in SS2, but the "close" trigger has been reached, you will be allowed into that zone only if one of them disbands and invites you.</div><div> </div><div>Hope that helps explain a bit.</div><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:47 AM</span></p>

[Lonst]

<div></div>Thanks Kenazeer. I have seen earlier when I was on Steamfont where the Commonlands had choices of 1, 3. or 4 instance. So 2 had closed but I thought it was just because the zone became empty. As you have said maybe it just reached a trigger to close and there were still some people in it. It was just not accepting others.

[Terabethia]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lonstar wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>Ok the difference between active and open, please explain. Because if I have not been in the zone but I want to join some guildies I must know what instance they are in to join them. But if they are in zone one or zone two I can join them in either so both are active and open in most cases. If not then how could I join my group in zone two if the game knows it can handle more people in zone one. It does not know I want to group only that I want to enter that zone.</p><p>As far as people taking advanage of game machanics, that is the biggest problem with online gaming is the few who ruin things for the many.</p><p>Message Edited by Lonstar on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:20 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#33ccff">Just because a zone is open does not mean it's active. Active means that it is currently available to all players to zone into. Open just means that there is someone in there, but other single players (ie: not grouped) can not currently go in. </font></p><p><font color="#33ccff">If there is a group of people in SoS2, but SoS 1 is not at full compasity, you can only get into SoS 1, which is the current active one. So, in order to get into the SoS2 version, you must be within the group of people who are currently in the inactive zone. When you attemp to zone in, it will only give you the options that are currently available for you. Sometimes it is both, sometimes it is just the first zone. </font></p>

[KBern]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lonstar wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>KBern, are you saying I can't go to zone two if zone one is not full? If I just want to watch my full group of guildies fight I thought I could zone into their zone if I wanted to. If not then why when you click on a zone with more then one instance must you chose which instance you want to enter?</p><p> </p><p>BTW I just want to understand. I am not trying to start anything. </p><p>Message Edited by Lonstar on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:31 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Lonstar on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:38 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Don't worry, I have no issues answering questions.</p><p>You are correct.  If you group of 6 guildies are in SoS2, and SoS1 has dropped its population to the point that there is room there, you wont go to SoS2 but will go to SoS1.</p><p>If you want to be in the same instance in your particular case, you will have to ask one of the guildies in the zone to drop group....the leader can invite you...you then zone in to SoS2 and drop group and let the other player re-join.</p><p>Otherwise you will be stuck with only the option for SoS1.</p>

[Bhagpuss]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kenazeer wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Aeroslin wrote:I think the logic is a little askew.<font color="#ffff00">If you are in a group that is currently in a 2nd instance of a zone due to the high population of the 1st zone, so long as the 2nd zone still exists, a person that goes linkdead inside that 2nd instance should be allowed to return to that 2nd instance.</font>  Again, ONLY if the 2nd instance exists even if it is not needed due to a lower population in the 1st instance.  If not, then they should pop to the 1st instance.My question is this: are there any contraints preventing someone from keeping their toon online inside of a 3rd or 4th instance if they happened to pop, then inviting group members into their own little zone, even after the need for the extra zone has expired?  If this is possible, seems like a pretty solid way to manipulate the game to your own end.<div></div><hr></blockquote>In order for that to work the game would have to know why you left. Since it can't, that won't work.<hr></blockquote>Could require you to fill in a questionaire when you log back in, like it does when you try to close your account <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[ke'la]

<div></div><p>there are three terms here you need to know and when you understand them then Maybe you will get what is going on.</p><p>Open = Anyone outside the zone(either a "new" log-in or someone in TT) can enter the zone(New is in quotes because the second the toon despawns from the game ANY log-in is a new log in)</p><p>Closed = Noone outside the zone(either a "new" log-in or someone in TT) can enter the zone.</p><p>Active = A zone with people in it and therefor running(a zone can be either Open Active or Closed Active, A Closed Active zone is like a Store that just reached closing time no one is alowed in but those inside can finnish what they are doing)</p><p>The Devs added the ablity to join your group members in a Closed Active instance a few updates ago, it used to be if you went LD or Zoned out and the Instance your group is in was Closed Active your group would have to zone out and join you as there was no way to get into a Closed zone.</p><p>Instances are differant, because the second your group zones out the instance despawns and therefor if you log back in and your group had zoned out you will zone to the front door of the instance, while if the instance is still open you can zone back into it.</p><p>Try this with your Inn room, you and your friend zone into your Inn room, one of the two of you /camp, then log back in, you will zone into your inn room NOT outside it, because the zone is still Open to zone into.</p>

[Finora]

<div></div><div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=116&query.id=0#M116" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=116&query.id=0#M116</a></div><div> </div><div><p>- Characters that go linkdead should now be more likely to return to their normal spot in their group when logging back in.</p><p> </p><p>This is all I could find that was dev said and pertinent.</p><p> </p><p>It'd be awfully nice if instead of just being 'more likely' you would just log back into your group if you weren't linkdead for an extended period.</p><p> </p><p>The "that instance was closed" argument is for another place and doesn't address the problem. I've been in zone instances that had 50 + people in it, gone linkdead and logged back into the one with 100 or so and had to do the zone in/out thing to get back with my group...to the zone that still had 50+ people in it.</p></div>

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Calendri wrote:<div></div><div>It'd be awfully nice if instead of just being 'more likely' you would just log back into your group if you weren't linkdead for an extended period.</div><div><hr></div></blockquote><div>When you go LD your toon stays active in the game for a certain amount of time, even after the client has exited. After a certain period of time your group will see you go LD; this starts a second timer. If you log back in before the timer expires you can rejoin your group. If you do not log back in before the expiration of the second timer your character will be booted from the game.</div><div> </div><div>One of two things would have to happen in order fulfill your request.</div><ul><li>The timer would have to be increased in step one.</li><li>The game would have to save and check a lot more state information.</li></ul><div>IMO, neither is very likely to happen (thank god in the first case at least). Once again, it is just my opinion, but the problems and/or effort exerted in fashioning a solution to this problem really isn't worth it.</div>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Terabethia wrote:<p><font color="#33ccff"><font color="#66ffff"><strong>EDIT: </strong></font>I found the message from the LU that states this was intended ONLY for raid instances (from April 2005). As it is now, they are the only zones with the timers. </font></p><div><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Epic Encounters ***</font></strong></div><div> </div><div>- Characters that go linkdead in many instanced epic zones now have 10 minutes to reconnect. While linkdead, the character will have a timer above its head indicating how long the character will remain in the world.</div><p>Message Edited by Terabethia on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:28 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>And that is precisely what I would like to see done here to all zones. A timer that allows you to reconnect even if there are not enough people to justify that new zone.</span><div></div>

[Aeroslin]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Calendri wrote:<div></div><div><p>The "that instance was closed" argument is for another place and doesn't address the problem. I've been in zone instances that had 50 + people in it, gone linkdead and logged back into the one with 100 or so and had to do the zone in/out thing to get back with my group...to the zone that still had 50+ people in it.</p></div><hr></blockquote>I believe, though I may be misunderstanding how it works, but in SWG there are consoles you can use that will allow you to teleport to your friends location.  Whether that means move to their instance or not, I don't know.  I definitely see the usefulness of a / command that would do such a thing, as in the case of LDing inside an instance.  If you do happen to LD in a #2 zone and repop into the #1, after you rejoin the group you could type in something like /joingroup and you will re-zone from that location to the same location in the 2nd instance.  Nice pipe-dream...</span></div>

[Suraklin]

<div>Only good thing DDO had when I beta tested it was the ability to join people in a totally seperate zone instance just by choosing the instance they were in on your screen user interface. If SOE was smart they'd find a way to implement such a feature in this game too. Too bad everything else about DDO pretty much sucked lol.</div>

[-Aonein-]

<div>What i hate is this, when you go LD and it takes the server 5 - 10 mins to release your Character to LD status, then you take another 3-4 mins to log back into the game and you miss your LD status and find yourself out of the group and in the 1st instance.......</div><div> </div><div>What would help here and i dont see anything ground breaking or exploiting from this would be to decrease the amount of time your character has to become Link Dead status then increase the amount fo time your character is acually Link Dead, so people with crappy computers ( like my back up comp, nothing wrong with my main comp ) can make it back into the game while their still LD.</div>