Ultimate Betrayal (about the new betrayal option)

[IA~CHAOS]

I see a lot of people are excited about the new and upcomming betrayal that will allow you to change your class respectively.  I was wondering how many of you will actually change your class.  Have you spent time and money on adt III's / master m1's...?Do you think this will be for the better or cause problems? Lets hear some stories, if your going to change ? and why? I personally will be changing from troub. to a dirge...why? I enjoy the troubs buffs but things that interest me in the dirge are stone skin, melee proc and more, I want to start raiding with the dirge. Will you make the ultimate betrayal?

[Greggthegrmreapr]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>IA~CHAOS wrote:I personally will be changing from troub. to a dirge...<hr></blockquote>I don't think you can do this...  Only classes that are restricted to one city will be able to switch.  troub/dirges can be from both.

[Magu]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Greggthegrmreapr wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>IA~CHAOS wrote:I personally will be changing from troub. to a dirge...<hr></blockquote>I don't think you can do this...  Only classes that are restricted to one city will be able to switch.  troub/dirges can be from both.<hr></blockquote>Wrong, neutral classes who betray already have the choice to change, and that won't go away in the new version.</span></div>

[Amnzero]

<div></div><div></div><p>Because originally, they werent from both cities.</p><p>troub's were from qeynos and dirges came from freeport.</p><p>Same with gaurdians and berserkers, no you can have a qeynos born berserker where as a while ago you couldnt.</p><p>And with wiz/warlock.</p><p>But if you can't look at your completed quests and see "Path of the XXXX" I wouldnt expect you to know that.</p><p>Message Edited by Amnzero on <span class="date_text">03-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:10 AM</span></p>

[Arthais]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Amnzero wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>Because originally, they werent from both cities.</p><p>troub's were from qeynos and dirges came from freeport.</p><p>Same with gaurdians and berserkers, no you can have a qeynos born berserker where as a while ago you couldnt.</p><p>And with wiz/warlock.</p><p>But if you can't look at your completed quests and see "Path of the XXXX" I wouldnt expect you to know that.</p><p>Message Edited by Amnzero on <span class="date_text">03-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:10 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I've played this game from release, troub/dirge, guardian/berserker, warden/fury and wizard/warlock were ALWAYS cross city classes, ALWAYS, there was no "a while ago you couldn't", from day one you could.

[Koehianna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>IA~CHAOS wrote:Do you think this will be for the better or cause problems? Lets hear some stories, if your going to change ? and why? <hr></blockquote><p>I don't see how it would cause problems.  It's gonna go both ways: people from Freeport will come to Qeynos and people from Qeynos will go to Freeport.  One side might be a little more favored probably because of flavors of the month and all that, but for the most part I think it'll make most people happy.  Why else would they do it if they weren't upset in the first place?</p><p>I'm changing from a Conjuror to a Necromancer just for roleplay reasons and because Conjuror pets look like [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</p><p>:smileytongue:</p>

[IA~CHAOS]

Personally although i want this to happen, it might be a problem.  Many classes are considered to be "unbalanced" then you have 100 peeps switching the next day and things get way out of hand?  I think the spell resets might prevent this, but who knows.

[Koehianna]

<div>And then when that class gets unbalanced, the people who haven't switched will switch, and so on and so on.  What goes around comes around.</div>

[Magu]

Anyone stupid enough to change classes just because of current unbalance will be punished later - they will be permanently stuck in their new class, even when things are rebalanced.<div></div>

[Koehianna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:Anyone stupid enough to change classes just because of current unbalance will be punished later - they will be permanently stuck in their new class, even when things are rebalanced.<div></div><hr></blockquote>QFE

[Galn]

<div></div><p>Well to answer the OP's questions...</p><p>I have a lvl 30 Warlock that is a really nice class but after talking to a friend who has a Wizard I prefer the Wizard class. Not because one is more "uber" or anything like that, the overall spell list fits my style much better.</p>

[minionofdeath]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:Anyone stupid enough to change classes just because of current unbalance will be punished later - they will be permanently stuck in their new class, even when things are rebalanced.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I don't think people will be making stupid class changes as you call them.  I'm more than sure many people including myself will be very much anticipating this new quest.  I'd much rather betray, have my spells reset and keep playing this game than what I'm currently doing, which is, not playing, but still paying the monthly bill.  For sure there will be people wanting to betray after the latest Ranger changes.  But some of us have been struggling along since LU13 which was several months back.  I'm already playing WoW, but being able to betray will breath new life into my excitement of playing EQ2.</span></div>

[Magu]

I wasn't referring to ALL changes, obviously.If you don't enjoy your class, and just want to change over, that's one thing.However, some people would switch just because of a temporary imbalance, wanting to be the current "uber" class - when that's balanced out, they may be hating the new choice instead.<div></div>

[MrMartin]

<div></div><p>Well, atleast there will be lots of Guardians changing to Berserker.</p><p>Me? Well, haven't decided yet. It would be a pain in the behind to getall the new spells and stuff....</p>

[DarkMirrax]

<blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:I wasn't referring to ALL changes, obviously.If you don't enjoy your class, and just want to change over, that's one thing.However, some people would switch just because of a temporary imbalance, wanting to be the current "uber" class - when that's balanced out, they may be hating the new choice instead.<div></div><hr></blockquote>/Agree 100 % magus i.e guards to zerkers

[SoulForged]

I don't think to many (if any) high lvl players will change their class cause of the new spells you will have at app1.I cant imagine someone is willing to give up all master spells and even the old ad3 will be completely wasted money.

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>SoulForged wrote:I don't think to many (if any) high lvl players will change their class cause of the new spells you will have at app1.I cant imagine someone is willing to give up all master spells and even the old ad3 will be completely wasted money.<hr></blockquote>Raid Guild MT's for one

[nagelfare]

<div></div><p>This is currently my favourite subject so I cannot resist replying to this thread.</p><p>My reason for changing class are following:</p><p>I picked the good side because our guild started out as Qeynosian based one. It was in the beginning of EQ2 and  things were uncertain if it would incur penalties if joining with a Freeportian character.  This has lead to a bit of a pain playing this char and the tradeskill has surpassed the adventure level by now.</p><p>The hope of a new life has awaken with this possible new betrayal option and I pray each day that it will come true :smileywink: (after all he is a priest class).</p><p>As a side note I have scrapped a few chars (about 5) and made Freeportians instead since launch of game. I am not roleplaying but for some reason the abilities and skills is more appealing in FP and suits my utilization of my characters - some are weaker than the good version but I dont mind as long it's fun.</p>

[minionofdeath]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>SoulForged wrote:I don't think to many (if any) high lvl players will change their class cause of the new spells you will have at app1.I cant imagine someone is willing to give up all master spells and even the old ad3 will be completely wasted money.<hr></blockquote>It's not that difficult actually.  Most people had to get new spells when they went from 60 to 70.  So I doubt anyone will be upgrading all the spells from 1 to 57 unless of course they were one off special spells.</span></div>

[Jebaris]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>IA~CHAOS wrote:Have you spent time and money on adt III's / master m1's...?</p><p><font color="#6699cc">I have spent very little money on spell upgrades - i did use some rare stones i found to make adept iii's but not much out of pocket.</font>Do you think this will be for the better or cause problems? </p><p><font color="#6699cc">I think its all going to get a little confusing. Look at the rest of the thread here. It seems like it would be easier to implement betrayal without a change of class but that dosent really fit in with the themes of the city.</font>Lets hear some stories, if your going to change ?</p><p><font color="#6699cc">My Templar will be betraying Qeynos the second i get a chance regardless of if my class changes. If I become an Inquiz then all the better. </font></p><p>and why? </p><p><font color="#6699cc">1. Betrayal is the most fun quest in the game. </font></p><p><font color="#6699cc">2. I retired my templar and now play an SK who betrayed. He has a 5rm house so it will be nice to have all my toons in Freeport. </font></p><p><font color="#6699cc">3. Templars suxxorz</font> IWill you make the ultimate betrayal?</p><p><font color="#6699cc">Totally</font></p><p></p><hr></blockquote>

[HeadImp]

<div></div><div></div><p>When I started, my RL friends wanted to be good and thus from Qeynos, so I made mine there too, except for one, who betrayed to Qeynos, simply so I could pass gear and tradeskills components back and forth.  Now that the mail can go between cities, and there is little evident penalty for being an evil character in a good guild, I don't know why anyone would bother with switching classes or even betraying.  I did because I like the evil races better than elves and halflings.  All my newer toons are Iksar, ratonga, or Dark Elf, and I may even delete some qeynos toons and make more evil ones.  As for one class being better than its cross-alignment counterpart, it is simply a matter of time before it is balanced <read nerfed>.  I don't go for the whole evil vs. good thing anyway; the thing I miss most from EQ1 is the multiple different factions and THE ABILITY TO QUEST TO CHANGE THEM.  I play neutral characters, not good, not evil.  My toons are druids, monks, and bards primarily, and even my swashbuckler is more neutral than good.  But based on the whole slant of good vs. evil, won't the citizens of Qeynos lynch shadowknights and Necromancers who run around with dead pets?</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by HeadImp on <span class="date_text">03-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:43 AM</span></p>

[Sug]

Question, Do you have to change classes when you betray?   Could there be Freeport Rangers, Monk, Illusionists?I would actually like it you didnt have to change.   That way I could sell these useless Master 1's on the PvP server.<div></div>

[Hekynn]

<div></div><strong><em>hehe I wanted to be on the good side as well =) since paladins has their own Hp and Mitigation buffs since they out class us Sk's just a little bit =)</em></strong>

[Rijacki]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Sugo1 wrote:Question, Do you have to change classes when you betray?   Could there be Freeport Rangers, Monk, Illusionists?I would actually like it you didnt have to change.   That way I could sell these useless Master 1's on the PvP server.<hr></blockquote>There will be NO Freeport Rangers, Illusionists, Monks, Mystics, Templers, Conjurers, Swashbucklers, or Paladins,There will be NO Qeynos Assassins, Coercers, Brusiers, Defilers, Imquisitors, Necromancers, </span><span>Brigands, </span><span>or Shadowknights.The only classes which will be in both cities are the ones which are currently in both cities (and have been in both cities since release): Wizard/Warlok, Dirge/Troubador, Guardian/Bezerker, Fury/Warden.</span></div>

[infernus006]

<div></div>I am not planning on changing my class when this quest becomes available myself but I totally support the implementation of this choice into the game nonetheless.  It doesn't make any sense IMO for people to be stuck with a class that they are not really enjoying anymore especially if their class had major changes made to it by the devs months after they started playing.  I believe that everyone should have some kind of option to change their class within reason if they so desire.  This new quest will simply allow neutral classes to change into their direct counterpart (ie troub to dirge) without actually betraying their city to do so.  I see nothing wrong with it personally.  Currently they can already change their class by betraying their city but if all they want to do is change their class then it doesn't make sense for them to have to betray their city in order to do so since neutral classes are not restricted by alignment.  And it will not allow changes such as Warden to Assasin or Necromancer to Coercer or anything like that however so IMO the change will not be all that drastic anyhow.  I think if someone decides to go through the trouble of doing the quest, which I'm sure will be made appropriately challenging and time-consuming, and have all of their abilities reset to app1 versions because they feel that their class is imbalanced or broken whatever and are not having any fun with it anymore (that's the most important thing) and if they feel it is worth it to change then that should be their choice.  And since there is a penalty incurred with this change (having all your abilities downgraded to app1) there will not be any limit to the number of times you can perform this quest.  So if someone does the quest and then regrets the decision later they will have the option of going through it again.<div></div><p>Message Edited by infernus006 on <span class="date_text">03-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:22 PM</span></p>

[IA~CHAOS]

Exactly!  I think whats going to happen as a result is that many are going to get excited and instantly change their class,  not thinkingof what that other class has to offer.  After the switch they are going to realize that they knew their other class much better, andeven enjoyed it a little more.  Of course, this is only a possibility but it will happen.  People need to know the complete risk associatedwith betraying and having a full spell reset.

[infernus006]

Just because some people might make the wrong choice and do something they might regret doesn't mean that the choice should not be there.  We are supposed to be playing the game not letting the game play us.<div></div>

[Grey-Cat]

   I will be betraying with my guardian. I don't see how it could cause any isues other than it might actually clearly show class imbalances if they exist. If every single guardian changed to a zerker. Someone might have to admit there is a problem with the class. I am sure there are many other examples of class imbalances that might be brought to light, but this is not a bad thing. This is a very good thing. It would actually help to the game by bringing thins out of theoiretical argument ad into concrete numbers. Also if it makes the game more fun for anyone it is a good idea. Thats what the game is about is fun.<div></div>

[infernus006]

Is the reason that you are planning to convert into a zerker from a guard because you actually like the concept of being a zerker more than a guard or is it only because you feel that the classes are imbalanced?  I have noticed a lot of people (especially Guardians) seem to think that the Zerker class is overpowered when in reality it is not.  Perhaps you should actually take a look at our list of abilities and compare them to your own before making the decision.  I am a level 70 Berserker by the way.  Have you seen our new level 65 ability?  It's pretty crappy compared to yours.  And Guardians are still generally the most preferred tank for raids out of all the fighter classes.  Some more information you might also not be aware of:  zerkers only have 2 aoe taunts while guards have 3 and we do not have any kind of hate reducer spell to place on a party memeber like you do (Aussage) and our version of HTL only has a 20% chance to proc from being hit where yours has a 50% chance.  And we do not have anything like your Tower of Stone spell either.  And we didn't get a big cool looking black golem for our level 40 fun spell LOL, you know what we got?  We got a plain brown bear that looks exactly like one the Mystics get at level 20.  So while I do hope that you get the choice to change into a zerker if that's what you really want I hope you do realize that the grass is not always greener on the other side.  The only thing we have that you don't have is some extra DPS, but we don't have enough of it anymore (since all the nerfs that have been dealt to us) to really compete with any real DPS classes.  And just so you know I happen to know at least one high level zerker that's planning on changing into a guard because he likes to tank raids a lot and he feels he will be better at least a bit better at doing it as a Guardian.<div></div>

[Grey-Cat]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>infernus006 wrote:Is the reason that you are planning to convert into a zerker from a guard because you actually like the concept of being a zerker more than a guard or is it only because you feel that the classes are imbalanced?  I have noticed a lot of people (especially Guardians) seem to think that the Zerker class is overpowered when in reality it is not.  Perhaps you should actually take a look at our list of abilities and compare them to your own before making the decision.  I am a level 70 Berserker by the way.  Have you seen our new level 65 ability?  It's pretty crappy compared to yours.  And Guardians are still generally the most preferred tank for raids out of all the fighter classes.  Some more information you might also not be aware of:  zerkers only have 2 aoe taunts while guards have 3 and we do not have any kind of hate reducer spell to place on a party memeber like you do (Aussage) and our version of HTL only has a 20% chance to proc from being hit where yours has a 50% chance.  And we do not have anything like your Tower of Stone spell either.  And we didn't get a big cool looking black golem for our level 40 fun spell LOL, you know what we got?  We got a plain brown bear that looks exactly like one the Mystics get at level 20.  So while I do hope that you get the choice to change into a zerker if that's what you really want I hope you do realize that the grass is not always greener on the other side.  The only thing we have that you don't have is some extra DPS, but we don't have enough of it anymore (since all the nerfs that have been dealt to us) to really compete with any real DPS classes.  And just so you know I happen to know at least one high level zerker that's planning on changing into a guard because he likes to tank raids a lot and he feels he will be better at least a bit better at doing it as a Guardian.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Valid question, for me the main reasons I am changing is the fun factor. I have zero fun with my guard anymore. So anything must be better than that. Even if it turns out to be like only a  tiny bit of fun. Plus I know the zerker class pretty well. There are a few zerkers in my guild and I have talked to them and compared spells. I am not changing because I think zerkers are overpowered and I want to be overpowered to. I do not raid, and sinced I left my guard behind ages ago, she would never be MT even my guild pulled together a raid force. I primarliy solo and small group. Guards just don't bring enough to the table for that style of gameplay.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Grey-Cat on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:48 PM</span></p>

[minionofdeath]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>infernus006 wrote:Is the reason that you are planning to convert into a zerker from a guard because you actually like the concept of being a zerker more than a guard or is it only because you feel that the classes are imbalanced?  I have noticed a lot of people (especially Guardians) seem to think that the Zerker class is overpowered when in reality it is not.  Perhaps you should actually take a look at our list of abilities and compare them to your own before making the decision.  I am a level 70 Berserker by the way.  Have you seen our new level 65 ability?  It's pretty crappy compared to yours.  And Guardians are still generally the most preferred tank for raids out of all the fighter classes.  Some more information you might also not be aware of:  zerkers only have 2 aoe taunts while guards have 3 and we do not have any kind of hate reducer spell to place on a party memeber like you do (Aussage) and our version of HTL only has a 20% chance to proc from being hit where yours has a 50% chance.  And we do not have anything like your Tower of Stone spell either.  And we didn't get a big cool looking black golem for our level 40 fun spell LOL, you know what we got?  We got a plain brown bear that looks exactly like one the Mystics get at level 20.  So while I do hope that you get the choice to change into a zerker if that's what you really want I hope you do realize that the grass is not always greener on the other side.  The only thing we have that you don't have is some extra DPS, but we don't have enough of it anymore (since all the nerfs that have been dealt to us) to really compete with any real DPS classes.  And just so you know I happen to know at least one high level zerker that's planning on changing into a guard because he likes to tank raids a lot and he feels he will be better at least a bit better at doing it as a Guardian.<hr></blockquote>Just about every point you make here concerning buffs, ca's and so on is in relation to being an MT.  Most</span><span> Guards</span><span> that I have spoken with who want to betray are not the MT in raids etc.  If you think your dps is meager, then you should see Guards in raids who don't get put into the good groups for the haste,dps,dmg shield buffs etc.  It's pitiful.  Since both classes are near equal when it comes to tanking in groups, betraying to a Zerker not only helps on raids but also if you solo.  If you want to be the MT on raids then stay playing a Guard.  They are exceptional.  For the rest of the Guards out there, betrayal could not come soon enough.</span></div>

[DmZB]

<div></div>I am torn.  My main will stay Guard, no question.  But I actually have a 2nd guard which i started pre-LU13 to play with guild alts to tank for them, cause guards were THE tank, and mentoring was crap.  I still think we are great tanks, although the road between LU13 and now has been rough.  I am considering changing because of mentoring changes, and the fact that i see no reason to have 2 high level guards in my resume nor do i have the funds or motivation to get end game gear for 2 guards.  But still, i am attached to my 2nd and have put in a bit of effort to be geared/upgraded in lengendary.  I am currently leveling a Zerk on test and likely will make my decision based on that toon once it is high enough. 

[IA~CHAOS]

I'm curious how this is going to go down.  Reseting all your spells would hurt bad, and unless you didnt upgrade on purpose the time and money into it seems not worth it.   I do wonder about class specific items if anyone could fill me in...such as hooluh's cap, say I was a troub. when i completed it, now the betrayal is out and I am a dirge, will it no longer be wearable or auto configure to my new class?

[infernus006]

<i>"</i><span><i>I primarliy solo and small group. Guards just don't bring enough to the table for that style of gameplay."</i>Well to be honest it's not that much different being a Zerker.  We do have more DPS, no question about that, but like I said it's not enough to compete with any of the DPS classes for any DPS spots even in normal groups, let alone raids.  We got nerfed pretty hard in LU13 as well, not just you.  So now we are in the same teir of DPS as you (the bottom one).  The main reason we have more DPS though is because we can't take quite as many hits and do not have as many taunts as a Guardian so we have to have something to make up for it and being a Berserker having more DPS makes sense.  But it doesn't change the fact that we are still plate tank Warriors and will never be considered a true DPS class in this game.  So just so you know you are pretty much going to be in the same boat looking for MT spots in XP grinding groups and tanking instances for XP and loot because not very many people will pick you out for a DPS spot when you are LFG.  And as far as utility goes our group buffs are not very much different from  your own and I would say that you actually have more utility value than we do in that respect.  The only group buffs we have are a group health regen, str buff, and group berserk buff, the latter two of which are only somewhat beneficial to scouts to aid in their DPS.  We do not get any STA or max HP buffs like you do.  They took all them away from us.  We do have some nice AOE damage abilites though, I won't deny that, but the two best ones have 3 minute recast timers.<i>"I</i></span><span><i>f you think your dps is meager, then you should see Guards in raids who don't get put into the good groups for the haste,dps,dmg shield buffs etc.  It's pitiful."</i>Guardians are a purly defensive class they are not supposed to have any substantial DPS.  If you would prefer to play a more offensive class then obviously the Guardian is not for you.  That doesn't mean the class is broken however.</span><div></div>

[minionofdeath]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>IA~CHAOS wrote:I'm curious how this is going to go down.  Reseting all your spells would hurt bad, and unless you didnt upgrade on purpose the time and money into it seems not worth it.   I do wonder about class specific items if anyone could fill me in...such as hooluh's cap, say I was a troub. when i completed it, now the betrayal is out and I am a dirge, will it no longer be wearable or auto configure to my new class?<hr></blockquote>I've held off on doing my class hat quest and also have given up hope of attaining any Relic armor.  By the time the betrayal quest is in, we'll prob have another expansion/adventure pack anyway.  But to be safe and to make sure 100% that I can do the quests, I've not even got them in my journal.  Unless SOE comes out and says they will change over your class specific gear after you betray (which I highly doubt), then in this case, assume the worst and don't do them yet if you are going to betray.</span></div>

[Buttertart]

<div></div><div></div>Is there even any hint of when the new betrayal system might be initiated??  If it is likely MONTHS (like 6 or more) then I am sure some people who created a toon they would rather betray will just delete and reroll.  Ok, yes, I mean me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I have a 18 swashy who I would just delete if it wasn't for the fact she is a 25 jeweller as well.  Don't want to lose that time investment to do it all over again.  The adventure part I can and do repeat over and over (alt-o-holic, admittedly) but tradeskilling, not so much <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  That and I think it would be fun to be a despised wood elf in freeport <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  That said, maybe I should bite the bullet and get a little more social and meet people in Qeynos to group with.  Being a little shy I find it tough lol Brigands just strike me as the shadow-sitting, hard alcohol drinking sort where a withdrawn swashy?  Somehow that doesn't do much for roleplay <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> lolI have done a million searches (ok not really that many) on pvp server betrayal to find nothing but other people wondering.  Is there any place in particular people can look to see things in development, almost in test area - the forum doesn't seem that up to date in terms of future stuff?<div></div><p>Message Edited by Buttertart on <span class="date_text">03-29-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:00 AM</span></p>

[Jebaris]

<div></div><p>Seems like a lot of people are unhappy with how their class turns out to 'feel' when they get into later levels.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p>

[KBern]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jebaris wrote:<div></div><p>Seems like a lot of people are unhappy with how their class turns out to 'feel' when they get into later levels.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>Well so many things have changes since players chose their original classes.</p><p>Some classes sucked and are not great, some were great and now suck, some never changed much at all, etc.</p><p>I know I have no desire to become a conjurer or a shadowknight.</p><p>I do know of a few people in my guild who raid and want to switch to a class we dont have.</p><p>I think one of our illusionists are changing to a coercer for this reason so we are slowly collecting masters for him that we find, since Murphy's Law of raid loot is the majority of masters that drop will be for classes you dont have.</p>

[IA~CHAOS]

Ya, a lot has changed, I would love to find out a round about time of next LU is anyone has any clues as to when that will be...

[Verufian]

<div></div><p>Yes I plan on betraying.  Why?  A few reasons actually.</p><p>I play a swashbuckler which I love, has always been a good class to play.  HOWEVER, I play in a guild that raids high end content, and we try to stick to a policy which the guild was founded on.  One class per raid.  There are some substitutions, like we don't raid with an SK, so we have 2 pallies, etc.  But the founding reasons on the guild are what I love.</p><p>We have 2 swashbucklers because, at least on Unrest, it is a very Brigand LIGHT server.  2nd lowest class played on Unrest.  But their raid utility is huge.  So, as a guild, we have 2 option.  Either A) Recruit a Brigand, which would just saturate scouts on raids even more than it is now, or B) Betray.</p><p>I will miss being a swashbuckler, but I do feel that the switch is best.  Hell, we've already got 6-7 T7 Brig Master 1's in teh bank waiting for this to be implemented. </p><p>To answer one of your questions, for Tier 6, all of my spells are either Adept 3, or Master 1.  But for Tier 7 atm, they are all adept 1's.  I don't want to put the money and resources into the gear if its all for not.  Hell, I'm not even sure if I will actually turn in any Relic armor until the change, just incase they won't allow you to switch Swashbuckler only gear to Brigand.</p><p>I've waited for this since the first of the year, and am still waiting.  Time will tell when they will possibly put this in.  I'm hoping its LU22, since Moorguard wrote it would be in the next couple LU's post KoS, but I'm not seeing much play on it yet.</p>

[KBern]

<div></div><p>I am curious what will happen to people who have done the Blood of the Brood quest and earned say a Swashy hat.</p><p>Betray and now you are a Brigand. </p><p>I am sure the hat probably wont adjust, but will you be able to do the quest again?</p><p>I wonder if issues like that are addressed, or just have to suck it up and go w/o.</p>

[Magu]

You'll probably just be out the hat.<div></div>

[MRRX]

<div></div><p>Everybody's going to betray because......... they want a different class ?</p><p>I was thinking the intent was not to lock players onto one side of the Qeynos / Freeport divide forever.       And because it would be fun.     Instead, almost every response talks about why they want to change their class.</p><p>Shoot, that gets pretty close to the /respec weirdness creeping over from other games.      Yall are making me nervous about this, versus excited.</p><p><a href="http://eqjournal.blogspot.com" target="_blank">Everquest Character Journal</a></p><p> </p>

[IA~CHAOS]

Son of all thats holy, looking at the Freaking LU 22 notes NO BETRAYAL MENTIONED....I'm so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] disappointed, I was so excited for this.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Magu]

Why would you expect it so soon? They said it would take a while.<div></div>

[minionofdeath]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:Why would you expect it so soon? They said it would take a while.<hr></blockquote>My guess would be what MG said below...</span><div><span><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<blockquote><hr>minionofdeath wrote:Since reading Svartmane's comments...<a href="../view_profile?user.id=343" target="_blank"><span></span></a><span><font color="#ffff00">When the <i>NEW </i>betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change to their correlating class (ie Warlock -> Wizard) <i>without </i>betraying.  The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) <i>would </i>still apply in this situation however.</font></span>I've been giddy with excitement and can't wait for this change to go live.  Is there a timeframe of when this may go live?  I'm finding myself logging into the forums several times a day now looking for info on this.  I'm dying to know anything, something, a small morsel, a tidbit, just something lol.<hr></blockquote><p>We anticipate it will arrive in the <font size="5"><b>next update or two after LU20</b></font>. That's subject to change, of course.</p><p>This isn't just about modifying a couple of existing quests; it will be a complete rework of the system with some rather interesting new additions to it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote></span></div>No one is holding MG to his word on this.  He did say that was subject to change.  But the impression I got was they were on schedule to implement it.  He seemed very straightfoward about it.  Not the "in the future" or "when it's ready" response.  Since we havn't heard anything, either on schedule or being delayed, we can only hope all is well.Let's hope LU22, has parts, A, B and C.  We can always hope for the B or C <span>:smileywink:</span><span></span></div>

[Koehianna]

<div></div><div></div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=247" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=247</a><div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<strong>City Betrayal</strong>- The city betrayal quests currently remain as they were. These quests will be changing significantly in a future update.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>If they bother to mention something that isn't being included in a LU in that LU's update notes, I would say that it's something they had that feature scheduled for or as something they would have ready soon.  Three LUs later, still no new betrayal.</p><p> </p><p><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=47732#M47732" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=47732#M47732</a></p><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:We anticipate it will arrive in the next update or two after LU20.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Well, obviously he didn't say they'd come absolutely within this timeframe, but if that's what he anticipated I would say this is a good indicator of when we would see it being implemented into live.  It's been two LUs since LU#20, so going by what the devs have hinted at, that is why I expect the new betrayal quests to be coming in soon.</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Koehianna on <span class="date_text">03-31-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:09 PM</span></p>

[Koehianna]

<div></div>Aww, minionofdeath beat me to it.   :smileytongue:

[IA~CHAOS]

<div></div>Just as a warning to those that may post after this...None of us here are claiming that it was said that the betrayal would be here for sure, yes we know you want us to be patient but thats what happens when you tell people exciting news, they become impatient.  For all claims we are right here, look at whats been said, and unless there has been an interuption in the developement the prediction should be here.  As eagerly awaiting players we push this subject forward not to irritate people, but to be heard and informant to one another.  So no posts "Why cant you just shut up and be patient"  we have been, and still are. Its your birthday, but you get to open your presents when we feel like it...oh and btw you paid for your presents.Thanks Dark...<p>Message Edited by IA~CHAOS on <span class="date_text">03-31-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:51 PM</span></p>

[Atrix Wolfe]

<div></div><div>So will you be able to change if you already betrayed?  I was starting a necromancer, and decided to go conjuror last minute because they had cooler pets.  Of course shortly after I betrayed they completely changed the pets around and now the conjuror pets look so stupid.  And yes, as far as my conj alt goes, it really is all about the look and feel. </div><p>Message Edited by Atrix Wolfe on <span class="date_text">04-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:38 AM</span></p>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Atrix Wolfe wrote:<div></div><div>So will you be able to change if you already betrayed?  I was starting a necromancer, and decided to go conjuror last minute because they had cooler pets.  Of course shortly after I betrayed they completely changed the pets around and now the conjuror pets look so stupid.  And yes, as far as my conj alt goes, it really is all about the look and feel. </div><p>Message Edited by Atrix Wolfe on <span class="date_text">04-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:38 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Good question , i imagine you should be still able to go back to necro as its a new betrayal quest (once only)

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>IA~CHAOS wrote:<div></div>Just as a warning to those that may post after this...None of us here are claiming that it was said that the betrayal would be here for sure, yes we know you want us to be patient but thats what happens when you tell people exciting news, they become impatient.  For all claims we are right here, look at whats been said, and unless there has been an interuption in the developement the prediction should be here.  As eagerly awaiting players we push this subject forward not to irritate people, but to be heard and informant to one another.  So no posts "Why cant you just shut up and be patient"  we have been, and still are. Its your birthday, but you get to open your presents when we feel like it...oh and btw you paid for your presents.Thanks Dark...<p>Message Edited by IA~CHAOS on <span class="date_text">03-31-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:51 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Moorguard said there will be a new betrayal quest brought in for all levels

[Lera]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>HeadImp wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>Now that the mail can go between cities, and there is little evident penalty for being an evil character in a good guild, I don't know why anyone would bother with switching classes or even betraying.   </p><hr></blockquote>It's called roleplaying. Not all guilds accept characters of the opposite alignment, and some people want to play a race/class combination where you have to betray, for example, the dark elf paladin.</span></div>

[IA~CHAOS]

I suspect a dev to pop in here any sec and tell us our wait is over <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  lol shhhhh it will happen.

[VettsVey]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>This is a bad thing.</p><p>Each class has thier good and bad points.  ( and are subject to change at the whims of SoE Devs )</p><p>Nerf bats swing wildly, and I will not shed a tear when whomever decides to betray, all the sudden gets nerfed worse than the previous class they were.</p><p>I will certainly be looking for and only grouping with non-respec characters.  I dont need a new lvl XX Guardian/Zerker made yesterday ( who doesnt know the tricks of thier new class ) tanking. </p><p>The ID10T pool will be larger.</p><p> </p><p>Heres a thought.   Let SoE just sell pre-fab characters of any level/race/class in handcrafted armor and app2 abilities instead, since this is where its leading. </p><p> </p><p>Dont even say they will never do it... what they "intend" and what they eventualy do are two different things.</p><p><span class="time_text">Dont misunderstand me... I love this game, even if it has its issues.... but they do need to be stern and strict on some things.  This will lead up to alot of issues and a bad route SoE may not be aware of atm.</span></p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by VettsVey on <span class="date_text">04-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:54 PM</span></p>

[Sir Blig]

<div>only issue is in real life if you want to can go get more training and change your job entirely, will have to see how they work it out, but why shoud a mage not be able to stop his line of study and start along another line, or a guardian think maby these monks have the right idea with there etc.</div><div> </div><div>if some one has played a toon for more than a year and has got tied of the class why should they not be able to learn a new class without the masssive pain of grinding also they will have absoluly no access to past skills and all there master, adepts etc will be gone.</div><div> </div><div>but each to there own thought, one question how will you be able to tell some-one has re-spec'ed?</div>

[MRRX]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sir Blight wrote:<div> </div><div>if some one has played a toon for more than a year and has got tied of the class why should they not be able to learn a new class without the masssive pain of grinding also they will have absoluly no access to past skills and all there master, adepts etc will be gone.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Well to each there own I guess.</p><p>The journey really is half the fun.    If you're tired of playing your character, then make an alt and play him.     Don't subject yourself to "the massive pain of grinding" because you're bored.      </p><p>I have an Ogre Wizard who is going to betray and be a Qeynosian.      Mostly for fun; partly so all my characters can be Qeynos.    No class change needed or desired, just a roleplaying and fun factor thing.     I'm actually disappointed that Moorguard wants to make it possible to betray and change if you are a neutral class; it just seems kind of artificial and "respeccy" which I think should be avoided.</p><p>Any class change should be a side effect of betrayal; not the whole point.     Who would want a shadowknight in Qeynos?    So you have him change his class to paladin  since he's going to betray.     </p><p>If too many people just are going to do it to change classes, I'd be happier if the Devs in fact *did allow* that shadowknight in Qeynos.</p><p>I too am staying as far away as I can from this.     Any of these level 70 respecced characters who got bored that is.</p><p><a href="http://eqjournal.blogspot.com" target="_blank">Everquest Character Journal</a></p>

[Azarphan]

<div><div>I don't know why this has to be bound to the betrayal quest alone.  I can see betrayal class changes for those alignment specific classes.  I fail to see why a person could not change classes all together.  Much like the appearance in game changes.  Many games have implemented re-training as an option I am certain that SOE can come up with a viable system.</div><div> </div><div>I personally would like to have the option to maintain my char who has friends and a reputation with the folks I game with, but be able to work on a new class.  I think if I had this option to re-train I would be willing to incur a stout penalty to maintain my identity and perhaps experience a new game with the same character.</div></div>