This is not acceptable. I think we deserve a explanation.

[digitalblasphemy]

<img src="http://www.zaboron.de/skylord.jpg">We all know what happened in LU13.  The so called balancing act was read upon us.  So imagine my surprise when I see this.  I was already miffed at reading the Perdition solo attempts and so on, but this is ridiculous.  I very much hope that our friends in red who play brawlers will respond to this topic.  Seriously how is this to be interpreted by plate tanks other than confirmation of something we have suspected for quite sometime.  And that is, that the brawler classes are overpowered.  There is no way on this earth a fully T7 Fabled plate class could even get close to what this monk did.  Yet we are all equal in tanking we've been told.  I'm dying to read someones explanation of this.  This is pure craziness.<div></div>

[Sphiriah]

<div>yeah that didnt happen</div>

[BlkVpr]

<div>Lol we all know that never happened...they werent balanced upon release of dof...they arent balanced now, and it hasnt nor is it going to change.  Oh wait, it did change.  Everything went from unbalanced to so ridiculously unbalanced that some classes could be halved in their ability and still be owning.</div>

[Pon]

<div></div><div></div>nvm<p>Message Edited by Ponno on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:26 PM</span></p>

[ke'la]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>What I find interesting in that Pick is that there is atleast one Group member behind that person and that in the combat spam it states names of people that have killed MoBs none of wich where the name of the Person in the Pic.</p><p>:EDIT:</p><p>only people with Green Names in a UI are group members. Also that Group window is slide off screen with just the group Icons showing and it has another window under it(thats why the Icons have the Fram but the other widow does not) to make it look like there is noone in the group.</p><p>Also look at the guys Buffs window and you will see 2 poisons(something Monks can't do) and 2 other buffs on this monk that Monks DON'T have and require the guy to be in a group to get.</p><p>Not only that but the guy infront (wich is the guy you see in combate Mode) is most likly tanking the mob and IS NOT the guy that took the screen cap. It looks like a Priest to me.</p><p>Message Edited by ke'la on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:46 PM</span></p>

[Zabjade]

<div></div><div><font face="Comic Sans MS"></font></div><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#66cc00" size="2">It is a Farce is what it is, I'm a Monk and I can NOT kill an even-con by myself muchless a yellow con, I have to wait until they are nearly grey and hope I don't get spike damaged.</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#66cc00" size="2">• I do not have but one attack that goes over 1K in damage and it would be useless in said situation Devestation Fist can not be used on Epic, ^^^, ^^, ^ Herics or vvv Mobs it can only be used on strait mobs and v, vv.</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#66cc00" size="2">•There is at least one more group member with the Monk.</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#66cc00" size="2">•When Monks Get hit we take the hit HARD. because we have Lousy Mit vs the plate tanks.</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#66cc00" size="2">•LU13 didn't nerf the Monks because everyone was brought DOWN to our level. :smileytongue:</font></p><p><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#66cc00" size="2">•If we were that uber, then why don't I get asked to join groups more and be Main Tank instead of wannabe DPS</font></p><p>Message Edited by Zabjade on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:53 PM</span></p>

[Iari111]

<div></div><div>If it's any consolation (and devs, please pay attention here, I beg you)  there is no way in hell I can kill even con+ heroics solo. </div><div>Us run-of-the-mill non uber monks can't tank heroics  at or above our level.  The highest heroic I have killed solo was 8 levels below me,</div><div>and even then it was a very close fight.</div><div> </div><div>Please don't take seriously screenshots posted by monks decked out in fabled.  Most of us monks are NOT similarly equipped.</div><div>The forums are a inaccurate representation of the average player.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Iari111 on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:54 PM</span></p>

[Zabjade]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Iari111 wrote:<div></div><div>If it's any consolation (and devs, please pay attention here, I beg you)  there is no way in hell I can kill even con+ heroics solo. </div><div>Us run-of-the-mill non uber monks can't tank heroics  at or above our level.  The highest heroic I have killed solo was 8 levels below me,</div><div>and even then it was a very close fight.</div><div> </div><div>Please don't take seriously screenshots posted by monks decked out in fabled.  Most of us monks are NOT similarly equipped.</div><div>The forums are a inaccurate representation of the average player.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Iari111 on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:54 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#66cc00" size="2">Agreed! Not to mentioned that Monk fabeled armor/weapons are INCREDIBLY Difficult to get ahold of, My monk has holy managed to aquire 2 peices is 100+DKP of raids, plate and chain armor drops like it's raining.</font>

[Magu]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>ke'la wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>What I find interesting in that Pick is that there is atleast one Group member behind that person and that in the combat spam it states names of people that have killed MoBs none of wich where the name of the Person in the Pic.</p><p>:EDIT:</p><p>only people with Green Names in a UI are group members. Also that Group window is slide off screen with just the group Icons showing and it has another window under it(thats why the Icons have the Fram but the other widow does not) to make it look like there is noone in the group.</p><hr></blockquote>There's only one green name - they have titles set to vertical, so you're seeing "Lady Ryza" or whatever as:LadyRyzasome other title<Xanadu></span></div>

[selch]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Iari111 wrote:<div></div><div> </div><div>The forums are a inaccurate representation of the average player.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Actually it is place of "I am da pwnz0r, in j0 face!" attitude show-off place.</p><p>And "you deserve an explanation" = "Devs should check stats of that mob" because obviously there is no chance a monk can solo "healthy" heroics of let alone yellow, even con or blues.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:23 PM</span></p>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Iari111 wrote:<div></div><div>If it's any consolation (and devs, please pay attention here, I beg you)  there is no way in hell I can kill even con+ heroics solo. </div><div>Us run-of-the-mill non uber monks can't tank heroics  at or above our level.  The highest heroic I have killed solo was 8 levels below me,</div><div>and even then it was a very close fight.</div><div> </div><div>Please don't take seriously screenshots posted by monks decked out in fabled.  Most of us monks are NOT similarly equipped.</div><div>The forums are a inaccurate representation of the average player.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Iari111 on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:54 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>This line of thinking didn't prevent rangers from being overnerfd.  I doubt it will protect you once the Dev's get around to it.  It also won't protect the guardians/zerkers from having their 80% avoidance AA eventually nerf'd also.</p><p>Both classes need to enjoy it while you can.  Eventually enough people will cry about this and that and both will be nerf'd.</p><p> </p>

[digitalblasphemy]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>ke'la wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>What I find interesting in that Pick is that there is atleast one Group member behind that person and that in the combat spam it states names of people that have killed MoBs none of wich where the name of the Person in the Pic.</p><p><b><font color="#ff9900">I don't see anyone there accept the one person.  It's how this persons name is formatted that makes it appear as though there are more than 1 person.  Same person, same name formatting.  The combat spam doesn't mean those people are grouped with this person.</font></b><img src="http://www.zaboron.de/petlove.jpg"></p><p>:EDIT:</p><p>only people with Green Names in a UI are group members. Also that Group window is slide off screen with just the group Icons showing and it has another window under it(thats why the Icons have the Fram but the other widow does not) to make it look like there is noone in the group.</p><p><span><b><font color="#ff9900">I'm solo as I type this message and my name is green.  I'm not running any UI apart from the default one, so this doesn't appear to be the case.  The group window is complete.  It has borders on it just like the window above it and below it.  It's not moved off the screen to the left.  It extends to the right, once there is a group formed.</font></b></span></p><p>Also look at the guys Buffs window and you will see 2 poisons(something Monks can't do) and 2 other buffs on this monk that Monks DON'T have and require the guy to be in a group to get.</p><p><span><span><b><font color="#ff9900">This is a good point.  But if you read the original post, it states the following </font></b><font color="#ffff00">"</font></span></span><font color="#ffff00">Very hard fight, had to use all the tricks and <u>potions</u> i got"</font><span><span><span><b><font color="#ff9900">.  My guess is it's a potion that has the same icon as a poison.  One of the other buffs is from the Pris 2.0 weapon, and the spider looking buff is a self maintained buff that appears on their far right hotbar.</font></b></span></span></span></p><p>Not only that but the guy infront (wich is the guy you see in combate Mode) is most likly tanking the mob and IS NOT the guy that took the screen cap. It looks like a Priest to me.</p><p><span><span><span><span><b><font color="#ff9900">Again, I don't see anyone there accept the monk fighting it and the mob.</font></b></span></span></span></span></p><hr></blockquote></span></div><p>Message Edited by digitalblasphemy on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:28 PM</span></p>

[Iari111]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Crychtonn wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Iari111 wrote:<div></div><div>If it's any consolation (and devs, please pay attention here, I beg you)  there is no way in hell I can kill even con+ heroics solo. </div><div>Us run-of-the-mill non uber monks can't tank heroics  at or above our level.  The highest heroic I have killed solo was 8 levels below me,</div><div>and even then it was a very close fight.</div><div> </div><div>Please don't take seriously screenshots posted by monks decked out in fabled.  Most of us monks are NOT similarly equipped.</div><div>The forums are a inaccurate representation of the average player.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Iari111 on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:54 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>This line of thinking didn't prevent rangers from being overnerfd.  I doubt it will protect you once the Dev's get around to it.  It also won't protect the guardians/zerkers from having their 80% avoidance AA eventually nerf'd also.</p><p>Both classes need to enjoy it while you can.  Eventually enough people will cry about this and that and both will be nerf'd.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>I agree with you, and it is unfortunate.  For any and all classes to which it happens.</p><p>Nerfing classes based on what people in fabled can accomplish against non-epics would be akin to nerfing classes on pve servers to balance people who pvp.</p><p>Well, being able to solo well (against solo mobs, mind you!) is I am sure to be a thing of the past very soon, thanks to the braggers.  Bah</p><p>Message Edited by Iari111 on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:33 PM</span></p>

[Zabjade]

<div></div><div><font face="Comic Sans MS"></font></div><font face="Comic Sans MS" color="#66cc00" size="2">BTW half of those symbols in  her hotkeys are not something you average Monk sees she has some truly Uber equipment and Master level spells (I have msotly adepts as Monk Masters are few and fer and expensive between), several potions and other magic items I can only guess at. there is NO way  your average Monk could do that! I also see Buff lines that a Solo Monk has no access to admittedly she might have potions going as well using recuycled graphics.</font><p>Message Edited by Zabjade on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:51 PM</span></p>

[digitalblasphemy]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Iari111 wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Crychtonn wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Iari111 wrote:<div></div><div>If it's any consolation (and devs, please pay attention here, I beg you)  there is no way in hell I can kill even con+ heroics solo. </div><div>Us run-of-the-mill non uber monks can't tank heroics  at or above our level.  The highest heroic I have killed solo was 8 levels below me,</div><div>and even then it was a very close fight.</div><div> </div><div>Please don't take seriously screenshots posted by monks decked out in fabled.  Most of us monks are NOT similarly equipped.</div><div>The forums are a inaccurate representation of the average player.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Iari111 on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:54 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>This line of thinking didn't prevent rangers from being overnerfd.  I doubt it will protect you once the Dev's get around to it.  It also won't protect the guardians/zerkers from having their 80% avoidance AA eventually nerf'd also.</p><p>Both classes need to enjoy it while you can.  Eventually enough people will cry about this and that and both will be nerf'd.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>I agree with you, and it is unfortunate.  For any and all classes to which it happens.</p><p>Nerfing classes based on what people in fabled can accomplish against non-epics would be akin to nerfing classes on pve servers to balance people who pvp.</p><p>Well, being able to solo well (against solo mobs, mind you!) is I am sure to be a thing of the past very soon, thanks to the braggers.  Bah</p><p>Message Edited by Iari111 on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:33 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>For sure that's a good point you are bringing up here.  I would expect a fully fabled person to be able to solo better.  But herein lies the problem.  A fully decked out T7 fabled plate fighter wouldn't last 30secs against that mob.  If a person playing a monk can do this, then a person playing a plate fighter class should be able to as well.  Granted it would take them longer to do it, but they should be able to achieve the same result.  Isn't that what fighter balance means?  Using different skills, paths, options but ultimately achieving the same results.  As the current game system stands, no plate fighter, especially a guardian who is deemed the most defensive of fighters could achieve this feat.</span></div>

[selch]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:<div><span>For sure that's a good point you are bringing up here.  I would expect a fully fabled person to be able to solo better.  But herein lies the problem.<font color="#ffff00">  A fully decked out T7 fabled plate fighter wouldn't last 30secs against that mob. </font> If a person playing a monk can do this, then a person playing a plate fighter class should be able to as well.  Granted it would take them longer to do it, but they should be able to achieve the same result.  Isn't that what fighter balance means?  Using different skills, paths, options but ultimately achieving the same results.  As the current game system stands, no plate fighter, especially a guardian who is deemed the most defensive of fighters could achieve this feat.</span></div><hr></blockquote><div>That sentence pretty seemed "noone ever tried but would, by chance" mode. Problem lies within mob's stats, not the fighter seen there. Heroic mobs can be very easy when they don't use any specials. You might be well aware of that, and this mob is pretty easy for most class combo duos, let alone groups.</div><div> </div><div>I recommend you to try this mob again with fully T7 fabled / mastered / AA template plate fighter (should be potions of all kind and prismatics with the guy) more importantly that who will try should know how to play their class. If you can supply these, then I encourage you to try this very same mob, then share your opinions with us, rather than "would, should" words.</div><div> </div><div>Personally, I could not believe my eyes when I first saw that picture, because with full legendary equipment, pretty much AA's and Master I/Adept III's, I'm pretty much toast to blue heroics. Actually just tried a white con heroic and I've lasted 10,5 seconds, may be less (as long as my tsunami went on) and as you can imagine, 10.5 seconds till my death I was not able to do much damage.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:13 PM</span></p>

[xOnaton1]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:<div><span><blockquote><p><span><span><b><font color="#ff9900">This is a good point.  But if you read the original post, it states the following </font></b><font color="#ffff00">"</font></span></span><font color="#ffff00">Very hard fight, had to use all the tricks and <u>potions</u> i got"</font><span><span><span><b><font color="#ff9900">.  My guess is it's a potion that has the same icon as a poison.  One of the other buffs is from the Pris 2.0 weapon, and the spider looking buff is a self maintained buff that appears on their far right hotbar.</font></b></span></span></span></p></blockquote></span></div><hr></blockquote>You post a picture with no context at all complaining about something without explaining anything yourself. </span><span>Did you link an original post anywhere? </span><span>This tone of complaining feels more like sour grapes than an actual balance problem. The best way to provide feedback is to do some research and provide some real numbers with some tests and comparisons.</span></div>

[Gungo]

<div>How come crusaders and brawlers are not as desired to be main tanks as gaurds?</div><div>How come plate tanks are preferred in HoF compared to brawlers?</div><div>How come guards are now preferred tanks in high lvl group zones?</div><div> </div><div>Fix those inadequacies and you might not seem like a bigot, digitalblasphemy.</div><div>How coem i didn't see you posting pics of the guardians hittign 80% + avoid using the stamina AA line.</div><div>This named is way overconned and has no dps. I am sure a well geared gaurd can either solo or come very close to soloign this mob.</div><div>For a class that is considered the best tank in the game you sure whine alot.</div>

[digitalblasphemy]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>xOnaton1 wrote:<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:<div><span><blockquote><p><span><span><b><font color="#ff9900">This is a good point.  But if you read the original post, it states the following </font></b><font color="#ffff00">"</font></span></span><font color="#ffff00">Very hard fight, had to use all the tricks and <u>potions</u> i got"</font><span><span><span><b><font color="#ff9900">.  My guess is it's a potion that has the same icon as a poison.  One of the other buffs is from the Pris 2.0 weapon, and the spider looking buff is a self maintained buff that appears on their far right hotbar.</font></b></span></span></span></p></blockquote></span></div><hr></blockquote>You post a picture with no context at all complaining about something without explaining anything yourself. </span><span>Did you link an original post anywhere? </span><span>This tone of complaining feels more like sour grapes than an actual balance problem. The best way to provide feedback is to do some research and provide some real numbers with some tests and comparisons.</span></div><hr></blockquote>The original thread this picture appeared on is located <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=30514" target="_blank">here</a>.</span></div>

[Yohun]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>ke'la wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>only people with Green Names in a UI are group members. Also that Group window is slide off screen with just the group Icons showing and it has another window under it(thats why the Icons have the Fram but the other widow does not) to make it look like there is noone in the group.</p><p><span><b><font color="#ff9900">I'm solo as I type this message and my name is green.  I'm not running any UI apart from the default one, so this doesn't appear to be the case.  The group window is complete.  It has borders on it just like the window above it and below it.  It's not moved off the screen to the left.  It extends to the right, once there is a group formed.</font></b></span></p><hr></blockquote></span></div><p>Message Edited by digitalblasphemy on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:28 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>If you select yourself, your details will always appear in <strong><font color="#ccff66">green</font></strong>. However, other PC details will appear in <font color="#ccffff"><strong>blue</strong></font> unless grouped with you, <strong>then only</strong> will it turn <font color="#ccff66"><strong>green.</strong></font> (on PvE servers anyway)</p>

[UniformMarsha]

<div></div><p>People like the OP are EXACTLY why everything they patch is unbalanced. "Oh noes nerf this because it is too powerful, I know it is only a picture but it is a picture that shouldnt happen".</p><p>No testing, no data, uh if this picture is worth a thousand words its in ancient egyptian and makes about as much sense.  Instead of OP asking for his own class to be powered to a certain inability, hes taken the chicken**** way out and is calling for a nerf.  And apparently he doesnt care how it takes place as long as some other class is worse off than his.</p><p> </p><p>/golfclap</p>

[digitalblasphemy]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Gungo wrote:<div>How come crusaders and brawlers are not as desired to be main tanks as gaurds?<font color="#ff9900"><span>Crusaders and Brawlers are perfectly fine tanks.  Both tank raids in our guild on a consitent basis.</span></font></div><div>How come plate tanks are preferred in HoF compared to brawlers?<font color="#ff9900"><span>I recall brawlers being preferred in Cazels for their stun/stifle immunity over plate tanks.  So much so that if a cleric wasn't present, people didn't want to go.</span></font></div><div>How come guards are now preferred tanks in high lvl group zones?<span><font color="#ff9900"><span>It could be your skill, your level, the fact your guild prefers their MT to be a Guardian.  Why ask me about your own personal experiences when I wasn't present to witness them.</span></font></span></div><div> </div><div>Fix those inadequacies and you might not seem like a bigot, digitalblasphemy.<font color="#ff9900">Not sure what to say here on this one.  You're well known on these forums to post comments of intolerance towards people who play the guardian class.  If I'm a bigot, then anyone who raises their voice in opposition is a bigot.</font></div><div>How coem i didn't see you posting pics of the guardians hittign 80% + avoid using the stamina AA line.<font color="#ff9900">I didn't spend points in the STA line myself.  But your statement here decrees how dare thee who have avoidenth similar to useth.</font></div><div>This named is way overconned and has no dps. I am sure a well geared gaurd can either solo or come very close to soloign this mob.</div><div>For a class that is considered the best tank in the game you sure whine alot.<font color="#ff9900">I'll gladly sing the praise of any guardian or plate fighter who can achieve this.  I wouldn't hold your breath though.  </font><font color="#ff9900"></font><font color="#ff9900"></font><font color="#ff9900">Opposition and objection ≠ whining.  </font></div><hr></blockquote></span></div>

[PantherXX]

<div></div><div>Although I really should know better, I am going to respond to this ...</div><div> </div><div>#1  Try killing this mob yourself.  Many mobs, especially quests mobs, are waaay overconned.  By many reports, this is one such mob.  I personally have not fought it, but know what you are talking about first.  I have not seen a single post saying "this mob is sooo hard."</div><div>#2  Two things went through in the live update today that will "nerf" solo monks.  One was a change in an avoidance buff and the other was a proc on a stifle item which she was using in this fight.  Things have already been made harder for us, and I see nothing nerfed significantly in the guardians today.  The proc especially was overpowered, and I agree with the change ... but realize we have been toned down a bit.</div><div>#3  I would wager this fight took at least 4-5 minutes and she could not have done it again for roughly 3 minutes as the important CAs cycled.  With a single healer, a good guardian could own the rate of xp and loot gain available to this single monk.</div><div>#4  This is *one* monk with every buff/potion/item she can get to maximize her abilities.  This would be like saying guardians are broke cause the MT from NPU can tank too well!  If I am very lucky, I ***might*** be able to kill a heroic blue ^^^ mob ... no way I could do a named.  I would also bet that she loses this fight at least 4 out of 5 times.  Again, know the story before you draw any conclusions from it.</div><div>#5  Not every class solos equally well.  I have still seen wizards root and nuke stuff that amazed me.  Took a long time to do it though and was only barely worth the effort.  I don't care.  It doesn't break the game.</div><p>Message Edited by PantherXX on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:01 AM</span></p>

[Gungo]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Gungo wrote:<div>How come crusaders and brawlers are not as desired to be main tanks as gaurds?<font color="#ff9900"><span>Crusaders and Brawlers are perfectly fine tanks.  Both tank raids in our guild on a consitent basis.</span></font></div><div>Funny how you completley avoided the question. I didnt say brawlers/crusaders could not tank raids i said gaurds are better and preferred tanks for raids. So much so that all guilds if at all possible use a guardian to tank raids. Denial of this simple fact shows that you are completely biased, when you ask for yoru so called "equality" in soloing.</div><div>How come plate tanks are preferred in HoF compared to brawlers?<font color="#ff9900"><span>I recall brawlers being preferred in Cazels for their stun/stifle immunity over plate tanks.  So much so that if a cleric wasn't present, people didn't want to go.</span></font>Once again you sidestep the question. Btw not all monks had immunity just bruisers. And paladins tanked cazel fine because they could keep him permastunned as well. And you said yoruself even if no bruiser was around anyone wa sable to tank cazel fine if they had the appropriate class. The fact is in HoF there is no class a brawler could have to make him a better choice in HoF. In Fact Guaridians have doen that zone w 1 healer. I have not seen a single report of a brawler able to clear that zone w/o 2 healers in his group. Sure a brawler can tank if needed, but we are not as you say "equal" in tanking as a guard.</div><div> </div><div>How come guards are now preferred tanks in high lvl group zones?<span><font color="#ff9900"><span>It could be your skill, your level, the fact your guild prefers their MT to be a Guardian.  Why ask me about your own personal experiences when I wasn't present to witness them.</span></font></span></div><div>This has nothign to do with my personal experiences since i mainly group/raid w my healer or bard. I mainly use gungo to quest/solo now. Guards do tank better and 99% of the community will tell you the same thing only those few gaurds who don't have thier head up thier bums woudl contradict this statement. So instead of trying to persoanlly attack my playstyle learn some facts about the game.</div><div> </div><div>Fix those inadequacies and you might not seem like a bigot, digitalblasphemy.<font color="#ff9900">Not sure what to say here on this one.  You're well known on these forums to post comments of intolerance towards people who play the guardian class.  If I'm a bigot, then anyone who raises their voice in opposition is a bigot.</font>As i clearly show those inadequacies are the simple bias you show in your narrow view of fighters. You see a single post of a very well geared, possibly well played character killing a known weak heroic. and you then fly around on 3 separate boards trolling, callign for nerfs, and flaming boards. But you neglect to show the stregnths of your own class in comparison. That my friend is called being biased and a bigot.</div><div> </div><div>if you want a clearer definition here is what webster says (seems to me fits you perfectly)</div><div>Main Entry: <b>big·ot</b>Pronunciation: 'bi-g&tFunction: <i>noun</i>Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot<b>:</b> <strong>a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices</strong></div><strong></strong></blockquote><blockquote><strong></strong><div> </div><div>I myself was not intolerant of peopel who play the guardian class. I have played the guardians class into the higher lvls of the game. And i was one of the peopel asking for specific fixes to guards. What i am not tolerant of is biased and unbalancing requests by guards to make themsleves the best all around tanks in the game, becuase they feel inadequate unless they are the sole choice for tanks. At the moment i am content with the fighter class tree as it stands at the moment barring a few changes such as adding mitigation to the crusader and brawler AA's. More appropriate bralwer tankign oriented gear and possible tweak on crusader aa requirements to be more shadowknight friendly.</div><div> </div><div>How coem i didn't see you posting pics of the guardians hittign 80% + avoid using the stamina AA line.<font color="#ff9900">I didn't spend points in the STA line myself.  But your statement here decrees how dare thee who have avoidenth similar to useth. </font>My statement here was to point out your crusade to nerf a class even though you knew your own class was obversly overpower and broken. You come here crying to nerf others w/o any justification or proof.  Making statements you neither could prove or back.</div><div> </div><div>This named is way overconned and has no dps. I am sure a well geared gaurd can either solo or come very close to soloign this mob.</div><div>For a class that is considered the best tank in the game you sure whine alot.<font color="#ff9900">I'll gladly sing the praise of any guardian or plate fighter who can achieve this.  I wouldn't hold your breath though.  </font><font color="#ff9900"></font>Well prior to the change to stamina line i was pretty certain i could. But nonetheless even though i may not be able to at the moment this still doesnt change the fact that even if brawlers could solo an underconned heroic yellow mob, guards have just as much "unbalance" considering they are better raid and group tanks. IF you really wanted to be fair and equal you wouldn't just be crying that brawlers solo better, but you would also be stating how crusaders and brawlers ar enot equal raid/group tanks compared to guards. and this my friend is why i would consider you a bigot.</div><div><font color="#ff9900"></font><font color="#ff9900">Opposition and objection ≠ whining.  </font></div>But posting the same topic on 3 seperate boards does.<hr></blockquote></span></div><hr></blockquote><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:27 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:28 PM</span></p>

[selch]

<div><blockquote><hr>PantherXX wrote:<div></div><div>Although I really should know better, I am going to respond to this ...</div><div> </div><div>#1  Try killing this mob yourself.  Many mobs, especially quests mobs, are waaay overconned.  By many reports, this is one such mob.  I personally have not fought it, but know what you are talking about first.  I have not seen a single post saying "this mob is sooo hard."</div><div> </div><div>#2  Two things went through in the live update today that will "nerf" solo monks.  <font color="#ffff00">One was a change in an avoidance buff and the other was a proc on a stifle item which she was using in this fight. </font> Things have already been made harder for us, and I see nothing nerfed significantly in the guardians today.  <font color="#ff3300">The proc especially was overpowered, and I agree with the change</font> ... but realize we have been toned down a bit.</div><div>#3  I would wager this fight took at least 4-5 minutes and she could not have done it again for roughly 3 minutes as the important CAs cycled.  With a single healer, a good guardian could own the rate of xp and loot gain available to this single monk.</div><div>#4  This is *one* monk with every buff/potion/item she can get to maximize her abilities.  This would be like saying guardians are broke cause the MT from NPU can tank too well!  If I am very lucky, I ***might*** be able to kill a heroic blue ^^^ mob ... no way I could do a named.  I would also bet that she loses this fight at least 4 out of 5 times.  Again, know the story before you draw any conclusions from it.</div><div>#5  Not every class solos equally well.  I have still seen wizards root and nuke stuff that amazed me.  Took a long time to do it though and was only barely worth the effort.  I don't care.  It doesn't break the game.</div><p>Message Edited by PantherXX on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:01 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>would like to underline those "item", "avoidance buff" "nerfed" "today's patch" notes. I believe those tells everything, and someone need to understand "item" is not equal to spells and abilities.</div><div>And yes, item was overpowered and has been nerfed today. Stiffling with a big chance was bad idea and corrected.</div><div> </div>

[digitalblasphemy]

<div></div><p>A crusade for a nerf is what happened to the Ranger class.  It's what Gaige spent months of this time, and thousands of posts doing that gave us LU13.  Now when someone points out something that appears overpowering, you pounce on that person calling them a bigot and claim they are crusading for a nerf.  I did say I thought the brawler class was overpowered.  I also asked for an explanation.  You say plate classes and or guardians are overpowered due to brawlers not being able to tank HoF and raid targets etc.  It all comes down to opinion in the end and I'll voice mine as long as I'm playing this game.  I've no doubt you'll grace us with your charming wit and repartee at every opportunity.  And to correct you I've only posted one topic total on this subject.  Just like you, I've replied on other topics not started by myself.  That does not constitute a crusade.  I'm not going to spell Chinese to you and expect a competent reply.  I've read enough of your posts to know you enjoy enticing people and getting reactions from them.  One thing I will reply on though is this STA line AA avoidance thing you seem to have a problem with.  I didn't use points in the STA line.  I wasn't even aware of guardians achieving 80% avoidance.<span>  </span>You clearly seem to think it's the brawler’s god given right to stake claim to all the avoidance this game offers.  You also wrongly assumed I knew about it and chose to sweep it under the carpet.  Look at the replies to the original post.  The fist reply went something like "Shhhh".  Doesn't take a rocket scientist or even a janitor to know people were already getting nervous and trying to protect something.</p>

[Iari111]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:<div></div><p> Look at the replies to the original post.  The fist reply went something like "Shhhh".  Doesn't take a rocket scientist or even a janitor to know people were already getting nervous and trying to protect something.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I would imagine most people didn't respond with "Shhhh" or the like because they know that all monks can tank this mob (or other similarly conned heroics), but because the majority of them know the carnage to the monk class that post could lead to.</p><p>Unfortunately the boost to the ego in posts like that have the potential to do far too much damage to innocent bystanders.  It's like watching a train wreck.</p><p>And back to my original point that not all monks are created equal, and that not all monks should be judged overpowered based on one person's ego-boosting post:  I checked this person's stats and compared to mine, at a glance.. 2000 more hp than my monk, +30 more defense, double my resists.. and I am not in crap gear.  Everyone is sooo quick to use this one example, which in <u>no way</u> represents most monks, as an excuse to point at all monks as being too uber for their own good.</p><p>I sincerely hope this fades away.  If other classes are underpowered, they should get some love certainly.  But this tendancy to cry nerf will get <u>none of us</u> anywhere!  Eventually, after every class is nerfed, and nerfed, and nerfed some more, all any class will be able to do in eq2 is sit safe and sound, snug in their inn rooms, having tea parties and playing with dolls.  It needs to stop.</p><p>Message Edited by Iari111 on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:38 PM</span></p>

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:<div></div><p>A crusade for a nerf is what happened to the Ranger class.  It's what Gaige spent months of this time, and thousands of posts doing that gave us LU13. </p><hr></blockquote><p>Never forget that my time and posts single handedly brought us LU13.  SOE was going to stop at 12 live updates but bet me I couldn't post over 5,000 times before Fan Faire.</p><p>I won, guardians lost.</p><p>Cruel, cruel world.</p>

[Chog]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><blockquote> </blockquote><p>Never forget that my time and posts single handedly brought us LU13.  SOE was going to stop at 12 live updates but bet me I couldn't post over 5,000 times before Fan Faire.</p><p>I won, guardians lost.</p><p>Cruel, cruel world.</p><hr></blockquote>So what happens if you get to 10k posts before this up coming Fan Faire?  :smileywink:  Or is SoE not betting with you anymore?

[Dannd]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>digitalblasphemy wrote:<div></div><p>A crusade for a nerf is what happened to the Ranger class.  It's what Gaige spent months of this time, and thousands of posts doing that gave us LU13. </p><hr></blockquote><p>Never forget that my time and posts single handedly brought us LU13.  SOE was going to stop at 12 live updates but bet me I couldn't post over 5,000 times before Fan Faire.</p><p>I won, guardians lost.</p><p>Cruel, cruel world.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Lol Gaige.</p><p>Seriously though, from a Bruiser's perspective, there is no in hell I would be able to solo a lvl 71 ^^^ named.  I have a hard enough time soloing ^ mobs that con white to me.  Several factors may have played into this, using simple formulas and graphs.  I wont post the graphs, but after calculating several possibilities, I've come to several conclusions:</p><p>1.  Potions out the gazoo.</p><p>2.  Racial traits</p><p>3.  Armor</p><p>4.  Spell upgrades</p><p>5.  Luck</p><p>6.  Sheer Luck</p><p>7.  Holy crap she got lucky</p><p>8.  Wow, that's freakin lucky</p><p> </p>

[Buneary]

<span><span></span></span>

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ke'la wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Also look at the guys Buffs window and you will see 2 poisons(something Monks can't do) and 2 other buffs on this monk that Monks DON'T have and require the guy to be in a group to get.</p><hr></blockquote>Probably potions.

[Styk]

<div></div>Brawlers can tank raid mobs ( very hard but possible ) with the RIGHT RAID SETUP...... It usually is the guild that wants THE BEST POSSIBLE RAID MAKE UP ..... Brawler tanks arent the best possible makeup for raid MT so they go Guardian... ( best defensive tank in the game, but not nearly as good holding agro )

[Spite]

<div></div><p>I am not at all surprised at the screen. The class parses at upwards of 1200DPS and has a several stuns and a heal. No this is not something one would do for XP but farming loot and progressing quests none can match them except maybe a good Summoner.  If the fight goes bad they just Feign it off with a high probability of success so there isnt really any risk either.</p><p> </p><p>I have givin up on SOE and balance. I wish (as I am sure they do as well) they would have never stated the tiered structure because they have never come close to matching it yet.</p>

[zabor]

<blockquote><hr>FiftyK wrote:<div></div><p>The class parses at upwards of 1200DPS</p><hr></blockquote>you certainly know what you are talking about.

[Iari111]

<div>oooh my first double post... cool</div><p>Message Edited by Iari111 on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:33 AM</span></p>

[Iari111]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>FiftyK wrote:<div></div><p>The class parses at upwards of 1200DPS</p><hr></blockquote>LOL.. and where do you get this magical number?  highest I have parsed, two levels ago,  was in the 300-400 range.  I am sure there are monks that have parsed higher, but 1200?  Get a clue, please.

[Draughi]

<div>Ok a monk soloing a heroic 71.  Ive seen it done before.   Certain heroic mobs only.  I've also seen monks attempt to solo lvl 65 heroics and get spanked.  I't all in the mob,   Against a illusionist/coercer type mob, monks own.  Against others, they fall very short of a plate tank.  With tsunami, their only spell capable of making them tank HoF (if of course it had a much faster recast), has been nerfed and gets hit through on most of the mobs CA's.  A properly set up Pally can do this the same.  Being able to resist the spells is key to some of these named in what I've seen.</div>

[Magiocracy]

<span><blockquote><hr>Iari111 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>FiftyK wrote:<div></div><p>The class parses at upwards of 1200DPS</p><hr></blockquote>LOL.. and where do you get this magical number?  highest I have parsed, two levels ago,  was in the 300-400 range.  I am sure there are monks that have parsed higher, but 1200?  Get a clue, please.<hr></blockquote>Agreed - unless the monk was actually a Necro in disguise these kind of numbers simply don't happen. 600-650 is max I've seen a Monk put out.</span><div></div>

[Espyderman]

<div></div><p>Im gonna post a picture of my templar tanking a named, when he gets to orange, ill heal myself full take a screen and say "im overpowered nerf me please"</p><p>That should be more then enough to get you all in an uproar im sure. I wont show the combat stats or parse at all, ill hide my group window, ill even go as far as filter my chat and screenshot only what you dont need to see in chat to ensure your befuddled to think this is true. And it will work. Like it did here.</p><p>If Bruisers or Monks are overpowered look at Necros and Conjurers. They can easily solo heroic named that drop masters everytime they die, yet no one is saying crap about them. In all honesty their is no balance. Since LU 13 this game has suffered from imbalances and bugs galore and ill be glad when its all over if it ever is.</p>

[Gungo]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Iari111 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>FiftyK wrote:<div></div><p>The class parses at upwards of 1200DPS</p><hr></blockquote>LOL.. and where do you get this magical number?  highest I have parsed, two levels ago,  was in the 300-400 range.  I am sure there are monks that have parsed higher, but 1200?  Get a clue, please.<hr></blockquote><p>He is pulling that number from monks with the correct AA set up with many direct applied procs applied on them form other classes in a raid set up with 100% dps and 100% haste and the mob debuffed to the wazoo. Which is thier max possible DPS and impossible to reproduce consistently. And trying to reach that number solo is impossible.</p><p>The reason why monks are able to hit over 1k dps with the strength line is because of the way double attack is working currently in game, allowing each attack a chance to proc applied effects. So every swing produces 2 chances to damage and 2 chances to proc. Now if you max that with haste at 100% in the same time a single swing is normally done w/o 100% haste and double attack. You have at least 4 swings and 4 chances to proc now you add 100% dps and they have effectly doubled thier non-proc damage. </p><p>IMHO applied procs are still currently bugged. But its really only acheived in raids so really since monks have effectly minimal effect in tanking raids I dont see it as a balance problem instead it gives monks their own niche in raids. Debate this as you wish.</p>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><p>Already posted on this and i aint gonna comment anymore but theres no way i could do that in a billion years , oh and OP the</p><p>THE [Removed for Content] GUY IS A MONK NOT A BRUSIER , DONT BE saying brawlers when u talk about those goodie pansy mofo saps.</p><p>ty</p><p> </p>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><p>There are no benefits to being able to solo mobs like this.  Just ask your friendly neighborhood wizard and they'll set you straight.  Your all getting worked up over nothing.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>If you can't find the sarcasm look again.</p><p> </p>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Crychtonn wrote:<div></div><p>There are no benefits to being able to solo mobs like this.  Just ask your friendly neighborhood wizard and they'll set you straight.  Your all getting worked up over nothing.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>If you can't find the sarcasm look again.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>/Agreed lets go get the wizzies nurfed .. i rekon they do way to much damage ,oh oh and they have to much health and power .. oh oh oh oh and they have uber mit lets take that away to .... im serious im gonna start a new campaign on getting wizzies nurfed as they get it done to everyone else so well  ..</p><p> </p>

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Draughith wrote:<div>With tsunami, their only spell capable of making them tank HoF (if of course it had a much faster recast), has been nerfed and gets hit through on most of the mobs CA's. <hr></div></blockquote>I've tanked HoF plenty of times without using tsunami.

[Gertack_v2]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div>I've tanked HoF plenty of times without using tsunami.<hr></blockquote>The 70 monk I went through Halls of Fate with did fairly well, considering the circumstances, until we got just past Sothis and the Skarize berserkers started 1-shotting her through Tsunami in defensive stance.  Other than having a shaman (or other ward) in the group, there was no way she could've tanked those.  After two consecutive 1-shots, we decided it was enough (and no, they didn't even have to debilitate/dispatch her to do that).</span></div>

[Dojoc]

good players should be albe to solo this crappy encountermaybe the power of innoruuk blessed his way <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />but this thread prove's only that thing that iam talking about all the time  .... the most ppl of you are only jealousy of what really good players can do with this game and there classes and you cant ... go ahead and whine some more folks .... we missed you ... casual [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] there<div></div>

[Giral]

<div></div><div></div><div>Am i reading it right Does the MONK have    28    AA point's ?  so that mean's he/she could have 1 tree Maxed out and point's in another or have his/her AA's Split and spread , With A great set of gear , and Potion's,  and eveyrthing going Just right i don't see why this isn't possible ? aren't AA's suppose to give us way's to improve our class in the way we Choose ?</div><div> </div><div>i only have 14 AA point's as a 70 Sk and i can see huge diffrences in how my Toon play's,</div><div> </div><div>So if this Monk set him/herself up with Gear, Potion's, and AA's to be a Soloing Master what's the problem? should all monk's be nerfed becuase someone did something Really  hard to do ?</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Anyway Gratz You Roxxer /Bow</div><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>.</p><p>Message Edited by Giralus on <span class="date_text">03-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:50 AM</span></p>

[Pouncer74]

<div></div><p>The monk who posted the origional screen shot is</p><p>a) bragging and with good merit since no brawler I know can solo 71 3 ups</p><p>and</p><p>b) annoying me as a brawler and as a player because there's always going to be the "why cant i have that" crew who complain for the sake of complaining everyday</p><p>Brawlers by no means need to be nerfed.....anyone who plays a 70 brawler can tell you that we have many issues that far outbalance this one guy who somehow pulled every trick in the book to kill that 3 up.</p><p>Avoidance tanks DO NOT tank as well as mitigation tanks....in groups vs yellows and oranges...and definately in raids......It is just common sense that if you  have half the mitigation of a plate tank  and orange mobs seem to ignore avoidance you get hit twice as hard and very often...which could mean getttin 1 shot.....which would end a raid pretty quickly</p><p>Brawlers get no taunt AA's. That coupled with the fact that our taunt buff procs half as often thanks to that proc nerf that predators and brawlers recieved to reduce dps and i believe accientally severely cut our taunts.</p><p>I dont think crusaders or warriors need to be nerfed...by all means up some of their dps...just leave th brawlers alone we've been through enough lately.</p><p> </p><p>Krutt Fuzzybottom</p><p>70 bruiser</p><p>club fu</p><p>blackburrow</p><p> </p>

[Pashta]

<div></div><p> There were at least two other people in there with you.  Teabag and Fluffy, it says they killed mobs right in your own screenshot.  Don't post fake stuff like this.  My hubby is a monk and yes he can solo heroics, but only green ones.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[zabor]

<blockquote><hr>Pashta wrote:<div></div><p> There were at least two other people in there with you.  Teabag and Fluffy, it says they killed mobs right in your own screenshot.  Don't post fake stuff like this.  My hubby is a monk and yes he can solo heroics, but only green ones.</p><p> </p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>If you look at the timestamp, that was like 9 minutes before. Please think twice before posting next time.

[KBern]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Crychtonn wrote:<div></div><p>There are no benefits to being able to solo mobs like this.  Just ask your friendly neighborhood wizard and they'll set you straight.  Your all getting worked up over nothing.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>If you can't find the sarcasm look again.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>rofl

[Tokam]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Espyderman wrote:<div></div><p>If Bruisers or Monks are overpowered look at Necros and Conjurers. They can easily solo heroic named that drop masters everytime they die, yet no one is saying crap about them. In all honesty their is no balance. Since LU 13 this game has suffered from imbalances and bugs galore and ill be glad when its all over if it ever is.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Both idiotic and wrong - impressive.</p><p>By any chance did you miss the 12 page thread in ITF concerning the LU21 necro / conj pet nerf? LU21 patch notes?? So I can easily solo named even con stuff can I??? Hmm.</p><p>On a side note please leave monks alone: far and away my fave xp / quest tank, loved by healers and generally out there doing the job that they are supposed to be doing. Id hate for you guys to come under the peevish attentions of the T1 dps clique also.</p>

[KBern]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sulpeel wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Espyderman wrote:<div></div><p>If Bruisers or Monks are overpowered look at Necros and Conjurers. They can easily solo heroic named that drop masters everytime they die, yet no one is saying crap about them. In all honesty their is no balance. Since LU 13 this game has suffered from imbalances and bugs galore and ill be glad when its all over if it ever is.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Both idiotic and wrong - impressive.</p><p>By any chance did you miss the 12 page thread in ITF concerning the LU21 necro / conj pet nerf? LU21 patch notes?? So I can easily solo named even con stuff can I??? Hmm.</p><p>On a side note please leave monks alone: far and away my fave xp / quest tank, loved by healers and generally out there doing the job that they are supposed to be doing. Id hate for you guys to come under the peevish attentions of the T1 dps clique also.</p><hr></blockquote><p>You cannot escape the notice of the nerf herders.  They are like a plague of little jealous lemmings swarming to the next class they want to toss off a cliff.</p><p>All in the spirit to maintain the integrity of the game of course. :smileywink:</p>

[Axamand]

<div></div><p>I just wanted to add a few things to this flame / trollfest, which will probably stir you all up more...</p><p>i am probably what most people would consider the "Average" monk i am lvl 70, on the najena server, with no t7 raid gear but decently equipped</p><p>number one: i have never fought the mob in the picture, so i dont know what kind of fight it is, but i assume i could probably get it in yellow health</p><p>before it owned me</p><p>i think alot of you people just dont realize the complete and utter randomness (and somtimes frustration) of being a monk we are the groveling slaves</p><p>of the RNG, more so than any other class imho.  i can go try to solo a lvl 65 heroic and own it with 75% health and power left after the fight, or i can</p><p>take a few bad rolls of the RNG and be in the red health while the mob is still 75% health...it probably took Ryza 20 tries at this mob for her to get</p><p>just the right set of RNG avoidance and resist rolls.  in addition Ryza, and myslelf, and 12,000 other monks have probably spent 10 times the amount</p><p>of time of any other tank Soloing, im not saying that other tanks don't know thier classes, but rather that soloing is totally different game than grouping</p><p>and requires different tactics, ie...using your CA's differently, switching stances multiple times in diff phases of combat, switching in and out different pieces</p><p>of gear in mid fight. and knowing the mob you are fighitng so that you can allow it to do what you want when you want.</p><p> </p><p>in a group fighting against stuff that would be considered "difficult" i never know when i am going to randomly die due to a damage spike, fighting against</p><p>"non difficult" content...i am a fine tank, but (let the flames begin) i can think of at least 3 of my friends that are scouts that could tank just as well on that</p><p>"non difficult" content.  basically Soe has created a pickle with the monk class by giving us a role and then placing us in a system where it is VERY HARD</p><p>to fill that role.  i apologize to the monks that disagree, but i think a large percentage of monks would gladly give up some of our DPS for some increased</p><p>tanking ability BUT the problem comes here.  Our ability to hold aggro is directly related to our DPS output and our ability to hit the mob we are tanking</p><p>so much so that if i am in a group of all lvl 70 characters i am normally forced to not use my Defensive stance or casters start dying.  when i am tanking</p><p>my DPS is usually around 400 in Black Widow stance, 300 or less in Defensive.  so what it boils down to is this...when i am truly trying to be the best</p><p>tank i can be, i do Slightly more dps than a similarly geared plate tank, dont hold aggro as well, and die more easily and unpredictably. </p><p>someone said something earlier about 1200 DPS parse monks...that DOES happen...to very well equipped monks in the perfect group in</p><p>a raid. the reason WHY it happens is this: alot of monks have gotten to the point where they dont tank at all anymore, so they gear thier character towards</p><p>max str, max +crushing, and use all thier AA's towards Offensive abilities, in doing so they sacrifice sta and hp's , mitigation and avoidance. the sad thing</p><p>about all of this is that it is honestly easier to build a monk into a 2nd rate DPS character than into a 2nd rate tank, and 5x harder to put yourself on par</p><p>with the best of either. </p><p> </p><p>in summary, never did i deny that monks are good soloers...i honestly do believe that Ryza did what she said she did, but take her down to Orate Trulnariz</p><p>in SoS who is only lvl 66^^^ and watch her get owned just like anyone else would.  anyone who cant solo effectively sits around and thinks about how cool</p><p>it would be to be able to solo this or that mob, but in reality if you had the choice to do so, and had to give up half of your group functionality to do it, you might</p><p>try it out for a while and have fun.  but it would get old for you just like it has for us and you would want to go back to grouping.</p><p> </p><p>i'm not going to offer up any suggestions about changes to be made, because thats just a massive bag of worms.  Soe painted us into a corner, so we either sit</p><p>alone and watch the paint dry, or wait for them to decide to repaint the room</p>

[Cuz]

<div>At 55 my monk can solo mermaids in SS. He ends up in the red, used his heal, pulled with the "decrease attack speed" hex doll. The mermaids are 9 levels bellow him, and he's decked out in legendary except for some jewelry. I strongly doubt he could solo any higher than that in the ^^^ version.</div><div> </div><div>I'd like to know when monks get the "Make me a whole lot better" skill?</div><div> </div><div>ps. I'm still surprised at how many rangers don't undersatand how their "nerf" happened.</div>

[zabor]

<blockquote><hr>Axamand3r wrote:<div></div><p>in summary, never did i deny that monks are good soloers...i honestly do believe that Ryza did what she said she did, but take her down to Orate Trulnariz in SoS who is only lvl 66^^^ and watch her get owned just like anyone else would.</p><hr></blockquote>hmm i better dont post more screenshots <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kodros]

This might explain this picture...There is currently a bug where you can't see a players character unless you click on him.  This has happened to me a few times including last night in Nest.  3 of my group members were completely invis.  The only way I could tell where they were is if if clicked on their name in my group bar (and even then, all I could see was the target arrow point down at nothing).  The only way to see them again was to reload the zone by dying or zoning out and then in again. <div></div>

[NemaLVey]

<div></div><div><font color="#cc99ff">Plausible to have a group with you, have them call out when the heroic is near death, pop Tsunami and other defensive stances till they zoned and disbanded.  Show a fraps of the fight from start to end to make me a believer.</font></div>

[Suraklin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Espyderman wrote:<div></div><p>Im gonna post a picture of my templar tanking a named, when he gets to orange, ill heal myself full take a screen and say "im overpowered nerf me please"</p><p>That should be more then enough to get you all in an uproar im sure. I wont show the combat stats or parse at all, ill hide my group window, ill even go as far as filter my chat and screenshot only what you dont need to see in chat to ensure your befuddled to think this is true. And it will work. Like it did here.</p><p>If Bruisers or Monks are overpowered look at Necros and Conjurers. <font color="#cc3333">They can easily solo heroic named that drop masters everytime they die, yet no one is saying crap about them.</font> In all honesty their is no balance. Since LU 13 this game has suffered from imbalances and bugs galore and ill be glad when its all over if it ever is.</p><hr></blockquote>Before you type anything how about using your brain beforehand. Summoners don't solo heroics easily. It takes a buttload of skill hoping your root and stun sticks. The heroics they can solo are 9-10 levels below us which can be soloed by almost every freaking other class in this game. The summoners who can solo anything heroic above a green heroic have really good root spells and stuns almost always Master level spells and a hell of a lot of luck. Because anything above a green heroic that resists a root or stun will one shot us. It takes a lot of luck/skill there's nothing easy about it. And to say no one is saying nerf summoners? You don't read the forums much do you? There's a whole thread that refuses to die asking for a nerf to summoners.

[Mortal]

<div>What that monk did is very plausible.  With the right gear, art upgrades and knowing how to play your class, just about any named mob in a dungeon can be done solo with a melee class.  Granted Zerkers/Guardians are prolly the most difficult to do this with, but its still possible.  As it is, our Bruiser currently spends his free time Soloing everything in SoS for hours on end, never even comes close to death.  Our one Swashbuckler has even started to do the same.</div>

[Code2501]

<div></div><p>It a bit of a pointless post really.</p><p>What this monk did was take advantage of an overconned mob, an overpowered item, natural skill and a well equiped toon. It hardly a surprise and certainly nothing that requires a fix to the class itself. What needed to be fixed (and has been) was the Mob and the Item. The Mob is now of the appropriate power for its con and the item has been nerfed down to a reasonable level.</p><p> </p><p>Time to get over it I think, on to the next target nerf bunnies.</p>

[Grunt]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Axamand3r wrote:<div></div><p>I just wanted to add a few things to this flame / trollfest, which will probably stir you all up more...</p><p>i am probably what most people would consider the "Average" monk i am lvl 70, on the najena server, with no t7 raid gear but decently equipped</p><p>number one: i have never fought the mob in the picture, so i dont know what kind of fight it is, but i assume i could probably get it in yellow health</p><p>before it owned me</p><p>i think alot of you people just dont realize the complete and utter randomness (and somtimes frustration) of being a monk we are the groveling slaves</p><p>of the RNG, more so than any other class imho.  i can go try to solo a lvl 65 heroic and own it with 75% health and power left after the fight, or i can</p><p>take a few bad rolls of the RNG and be in the red health while the mob is still 75% health...it probably took Ryza 20 tries at this mob for her to get</p><p>just the right set of RNG avoidance and resist rolls.  in addition Ryza, and myslelf, and 12,000 other monks have probably spent 10 times the amount</p><p>of time of any other tank Soloing, im not saying that other tanks don't know thier classes, but rather that soloing is totally different game than grouping</p><p>and requires different tactics, ie...using your CA's differently, switching stances multiple times in diff phases of combat, switching in and out different pieces</p><p>of gear in mid fight. and knowing the mob you are fighitng so that you can allow it to do what you want when you want.</p><p> </p><p>in a group fighting against stuff that would be considered "difficult" i never know when i am going to randomly die due to a damage spike, fighting against</p><p>"non difficult" content...i am a fine tank, but (let the flames begin) i can think of at least 3 of my friends that are scouts that could tank just as well on that</p><p>"non difficult" content.  basically Soe has created a pickle with the monk class by giving us a role and then placing us in a system where it is VERY HARD</p><p>to fill that role.  i apologize to the monks that disagree, but i think a large percentage of monks would gladly give up some of our DPS for some increased</p><p>tanking ability BUT the problem comes here.  Our ability to hold aggro is directly related to our DPS output and our ability to hit the mob we are tanking</p><p>so much so that if i am in a group of all lvl 70 characters i am normally forced to not use my Defensive stance or casters start dying.  when i am tanking</p><p>my DPS is usually around 400 in Black Widow stance, 300 or less in Defensive.  so what it boils down to is this...when i am truly trying to be the best</p><p>tank i can be, i do Slightly more dps than a similarly geared plate tank, dont hold aggro as well, and die more easily and unpredictably. </p><p>someone said something earlier about 1200 DPS parse monks...that DOES happen...to very well equipped monks in the perfect group in</p><p>a raid. the reason WHY it happens is this: alot of monks have gotten to the point where they dont tank at all anymore, so they gear thier character towards</p><p>max str, max +crushing, and use all thier AA's towards Offensive abilities, in doing so they sacrifice sta and hp's , mitigation and avoidance. the sad thing</p><p>about all of this is that it is honestly easier to build a monk into a 2nd rate DPS character than into a 2nd rate tank, and 5x harder to put yourself on par</p><p>with the best of either. </p><p> </p><p>in summary, never did i deny that monks are good soloers...i honestly do believe that Ryza did what she said she did, but take her down to Orate Trulnariz</p><p>in SoS who is only lvl 66^^^ and watch her get owned just like anyone else would.  anyone who cant solo effectively sits around and thinks about how cool</p><p>it would be to be able to solo this or that mob, but in reality if you had the choice to do so, and had to give up half of your group functionality to do it, you might</p><p>try it out for a while and have fun.  but it would get old for you just like it has for us and you would want to go back to grouping.</p><p> </p><p>i'm not going to offer up any suggestions about changes to be made, because thats just a massive bag of worms.  Soe painted us into a corner, so we either sit</p><p>alone and watch the paint dry, or wait for them to decide to repaint the room</p><hr></blockquote><p>Always remember: <span><strong>Proper capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.</strong> </span></p><p><span>.A</span></p>

[Haapy]

<div></div><p>OP seems to forgotten there are nameds and there are nameds. Every one is different and caters to a different class. As a conj I can solo even con heroics just fine, takes a lot of patience, skill, luck and lots of kiting room. However I could not even touch the carpet quest guy in Maj'Dull, a mob that has been owned by lvl 50 wizzies time and time again. It is all about being the right class for the job, as well as gear and skill setups. Monk in a pic is pretty uber, with no doubt, many master spells, using all available potions and clickies to get the mob down. I am wagering that has not been the first attempt at it, probably not even 5th. Replace said monk with equally geared SK, add all the tricks and potions, and no doubt the fight will go the same way, after a number of deaths learning the encounter and getting lucky with procs, crits and resists. Last night seen SK take on a named snake in PoA, in average to good gear and no potions he had it down to around 40% before taking FD at 30% health/power. Seemed to hold his own against the named aviak (the one in room with conjurors). If he actually had the raid-level gear and full line of masters (and did not fd at 30%), I am pretty sure he would have had the snake as well.</p><p>This is a bad tendency to compare different classes (in OP case it seems uber Monks vs average Guardians) to try direct the nerf stick. So what if some classes can take some mobs that templars cannot solo? Nerf everyone to solo level of templars? Stupid nerf posts like this one should never be made.</p><p>In conclusion, before you actually state that this mob can never be soloed by any plate classes, please try it a few times, you never know...</p>

[Poids]

Didn't even bother to read it all, but here we go...1. There are other classes who can solo alot better then monks.2. See 1.3. The high hits in HoF are resists (unless they changed this as I haven't bothered to do the zone for a good while), tsunami doesn't block resists.4. See 1.5. Nerf everyone but me!<div></div>

[Timzil]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Iari111 wrote:<div></div><div>If it's any consolation (and devs, please pay attention here, I beg you)  there is no way in hell I can kill even con+ heroics solo. </div><div>Us run-of-the-mill non uber monks can't tank heroics  at or above our level.  The highest heroic I have killed solo was 8 levels below me,</div><div>and even then it was a very close fight.</div><div> </div><div>Please don't take seriously screenshots posted by monks decked out in fabled.  Most of us monks are NOT similarly equipped.</div><div>The forums are a inaccurate representation of the average player.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Iari111 on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:54 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>While it's a good defense, this claim didn't save Guardians. Guardians got the snot nerfed out of them because of the abilitites of only 8 fabled Guardians spread out across all servers and one obnoxious monk with an inferiority complex.

[OneBadAli]

<div></div>As a mage i have solo'd this mob. He's really simple for someone that can root, cuz he's not a caster, so just root and nuke. He has a ton of hp though so you better have your mana potions ready.So basically this heroic mob isnt that uber (unless he gets close enough to hit me), i wouldnt be suprised if many classes could solo him.

[Guy De Alsace]

Its a bit sad when someone with obvious skill gets jumped on by so many people who are afraid of nerfing. Xanadu players are probably some of the best players in this game so I'd expect them to be able to pull off feats like this.My Ranger is the kind of calibre that tries kiting a mob then falls off a cliff and dies....nerf cliffs I say!<div></div>

[Supp]

<div></div><div><div>Here's how I interpret that picture...</div><div> </div><ul><li>That is one person in front of the mob, not two. The long name is just stacking from top to bottom.</li><li>The maintained buffs bar clearly shows monk icons, but the hotbars show priest items. The hotbar icons are prolly custom icons, but you cant do that with the maintained icons, so it's a monk.</li><li>The messages about others that killed this or that could simply be nearby.</li><li>There are non-monk buffs shown, but maybe those are potions or HO's that I'm unfamiliar with or cant remember</li></ul><div>    I have a 63 Monk and I'm telling you that this situation could not happen, no matter the gear or CA mastery. I say that because a monk simply cannot cause enough dmg to fell the mob before the mob fells the monk, even with 75% avoidance, even with the stuns we get combined with jumping around like popcorn in a popper. I two-box a warden that follows my monk around and can do amazing things out of group, which is most likely what's going on here. Imagine if a ranger were nearby to lend a helping arrow...</div></div><p>Message Edited by Supple on <span class="date_text">04-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:11 PM</span></p>

[Saihung23]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Espyderman wrote:<div></div><p>Im gonna post a picture of my templar tanking a named, when he gets to orange, ill heal myself full take a screen and say "im overpowered nerf me please"</p><p>That should be more then enough to get you all in an uproar im sure. I wont show the combat stats or parse at all, ill hide my group window, ill even go as far as filter my chat and screenshot only what you dont need to see in chat to ensure your befuddled to think this is true. And it will work. Like it did here.</p><p>If Bruisers or Monks are overpowered look at Necros and Conjurers. They can easily solo heroic named that drop masters everytime they die, yet no one is saying crap about them. In all honesty their is no balance. Since LU 13 this game has suffered from imbalances and bugs galore and <font color="#99ffcc">ill be glad when its all over if it ever is</font>.</p><hr></blockquote><p>[Removed for Content]...apparently from your posts you have never liked this game.  Why do you insist on making mommy and daddy pay for it then....</p><p>D'oh! That was a cheap shot and I do apologize...but then again, I am a ranger, cheap shot stuns for 6 seconds. I might back off and lob some more shots at you....</p><p>But why...why do people who go through so much trouble to make it obvious that they dont like EQ2 play?  Is it some form of masochism?  /shrug I guess I will never understand.</p><p>Have fun not having fun <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Saihung</p><p>P.S. I can already feel the heat from the flame that will ensue [Removed for Content]. </p>

[DarkMirrax]

<div>one other thing people seem to be forgetting the encounter wasnt locked so there no reason what so ever that the mob couldnt be nuked from outside the battle , i imagine a few nice few mages nuking away lending a hand makes this mob all that much eaiser .... not saying they have but hell at 60 i could "solo" this mob unlocked with outofencouter help.  Post is meaningless , hell i might even post me soloing sunchild (with a 23 man raid groups help of course)</div>

[robusticus]

<div></div><div></div><p>I just watched a conjuror solo the carnovingian (^^^ lvl 71 heroic)... he had 2 pieces of fabled armor, including the recently nerfed gown of glory, the rest legendary.  Looked like a fairly easy fight.</p><p>Should they be nerfed?  Nah, the rest of us should have our abilities unnerfed, or hell, maybe even outright fixed?, and they should make harder and more insane content.</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by robusticus on <span class="date_text">04-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:30 AM</span></p>

[selch]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>OneBadAlien wrote:<div></div>As a mage i have solo'd this mob. He's really simple for someone that can root, cuz he's not a caster, so just root and nuke. He has a ton of hp though so you better have your mana potions ready.So basically this heroic mob isnt that uber (unless he gets close enough to hit me), i wouldnt be suprised if many classes could solo him.<hr></blockquote><p>^^^ Everyone should read that again.</p><p> </p>

[Zagbab_Dorfbasher]

"<span>until we got just past Sothis and the Skarize berserkers started 1-shotting her through Tsunami in defensive stance"Trust me, monks are not the only tanks getting 1-shotted by the zerkers in HoF (ok, not sure if I actually die in one hit, but sure seems like it whenever they land their big dmg CA). The HoF zerkers sorta feel like the good ol' mobs with nil distortion, ah, the glory of reliving the experience of totally unbalanced mobs.</span><div></div>

[Emerix]

To make it short . I know the bruiser in my ex guild ((one of the leading raid guilds on our server )) can solo the nest till the last mob . I dont care what others say but this should definately not be possible . Also bruisers can outdamage my Troubador ((if its not a multiple mob encounter where i can throw on POM and aoe the hell out of  stuff  )). Troubadors are scouts we should outdamage all tanks . Something went terribly wrong there .  Someone get the nerf hammer please =P 

[Daydeee]

<P>As a Paladin with 2 dps (wizard ranger, monk etc) I was personally cleared everything PotA had to offer, Brawlers pack this combo in 1 package for about 30secs i think, so I would imagine its entirely feasible to do it.<BR>I did think killing either dragon was entirely feasible without a priest, until I did it.<BR><BR>An old retired friend used to post her sig as "Those who never stretch their limits, never know how far their limits stretch"<BR>Not to mention preparation and planning prevents [Removed for Content] poor performance. A whole host of abilities could have been used up till that point where she takes down the mob. Items effects etc, a favorite brawler weapon was the mace that casts heal.</P> <P>If some one does something you can't it doesn't mean you need to cry fowl, this is a team game, so long as people wish equality and refuse to see the benifits of each class in different situations we will always be going backwards.<BR>Perhaps if people had helped her out she wouldn't have had to solo the quest <shrug> Seldom is it people request brawlers to group etc as a primary tank, only when dps is needed and no other class about do they get asked. Don't shoot them for being creative and maximising their potential. Remember one day you'll want a class to do something for you, but they'll reply sorry we can't help because other jealous people got that ability broken or reduced. Everything in the game is situational.</P> <P>Salute them for a job weldone, be jealous of them quietly. Perhaps offer to help next time, but don't cry fowl because they use what soe gave them.<BR>I'm a paladin and I have no trouble with abilities of other classes</P> <P>Like m'sig says</P>