Warlock Love in LU #21c

[Cozumel]

I've noticed over the last several (and I do mean several) patches, there has be absolutely NO warlock "love".  We have several issues with our class:1) Top class is most # of deaths...2) Drag agro from even the best tanks (See #1)3) Roots break far too easily4) Casting times are seriously too long5) Power consuption is off the chart6) RIFT (Lvl 65) does 3k damage (Same as void absolution), with a 3 minute re-use... Wizards do 9k >aoe< with Fision.  Hey, I though we were the AOE masters here??Please-- give us some love... And FWIW, give other classes some lovin' too! -- Coz<div></div>

[Melfius]

<div></div>Us Templars don't necessarily want any love.  We just want less hate!

[Mabes]

<div></div>I thought wizards were suppose to be the aoe masters, and warlocks were the dot masters.  Over long fights, your dps should be better than wizards.  Don't know anything about the other points you raised though.

[Mimzel]

Dot dmg = summonersAoe dmg = WarlocksDD dmg = Wizards<div></div>

[curtlewis]

No, Warlocks should get the nod in AoE and Wizards in DD, but the difference should be minor (about 10%) or you pidgeonhole the classes.The reason Rift does less damage is it's not limited to 3 targets like Fusion is.  I also don't believe it's further restricted by a tiny 60 degree cone with a 5m range, either.However, it's very clear that Warlocks need some boosting, especially in raid situations.  Some mobs in GoAA are immune to both poison AND disease.  That's downright unfair to Warlocks.  That takes out 99% of their spells.Wizards have it bad enough with 85% of raid mobs being Ice Immune (no big nukes).For both classes, even against non-immune raid targets, they fail to deliver the Tier 1 DPS they should.  Tier 2 and often Tier 3 DPS classes consistently outdamage them.Assassins and Conjurors are in a different league compared to the Sorcerors.  Rangers are getting unnerfed and will be up higher again soon.  Even Necros often outdamage Sorcerors.While it may seem apparent that the Summoner classes need to be looked at, nerfing them won't solve the problem.  A boost to Sorcerors is required to get them to deliver the Tier 1 DPS they were intended.  The only other option is to nerf Assassins, Rangers, Necros, Conjurors, Brigands....   Then rebalance Raid mobs due to the hit a raid force would take in damage ability.PLEASE... fix the Sorceror class.  We've waited months and months.  It's time we got our turn.<div></div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>curtlewis wrote:PLEASE... fix the Sorceror class.  We've waited months and months.  It's time we got our turn.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I'd say we are due.  8 live updates and didly squat.

[stigg]

<div></div><p>Fusion is NOT an aoe.  I repeat, FUSION IS NOT AN AOE.  If you have ever seen a wizard use fusion you would know that you have to be within 5m (melee range), it has a 60degree frontal arc, and ONLY HITS 3 TARGETS.  If you honestly think this spell is usefull for hitting more than 1 target at time you are kidding yourself.  It's [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near impossible to have 3 targets positioned for it to hit all of them. </p>

[MorgothTheTerrib]

The problem is that no tank can generate as much AOE hate as a warlock and that's the reason why you guys die so much. In my opinion, every tank should have an AOE taunt that should generate the same amount of hate as a similarly cast spell. For example, if a warlock has an AOE nuke that can generate roughtly 2,000 hate at Master I, then tanks should have an AOE Master I taunt that can generate that much also. It's imbalanced because most of us tanks just can't generate enough hate to compensate for what you guys can dish out. That's a design problem in my opinion.<div></div>

[Supernova17]

IMO as both a 53 Paladin and a 56 Warlock, the only tank that can successfully keep aggro off a well equipped Warlock all the time is a Paladin. Sure, Zerkers are the kings of Tank AOE dps and hate generation, but this pales in comparison to a Paladin's Group Taunt + Pally AE's and AOE's + Amends feeding Warlock hate right to the Pally. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span><div></div>

[Magiocracy]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>No class is as much a slave to the RNG as Sorcerers (especially Warlocks) -</p><p>1. When soloing we live or (more frequently) die largely down to the random chance of root to break, which by the way breaks far far more often than it's alleged 10% (and 8% on AOE Root).</p><p>2. Sorcerer dps can go up and down like a yo yo thanks to the huge damage variance of our spells.</p><p>3. Resists/interrupts just add to the fun, especially now with mobs using melee CAs at range.</p><p>4. Aggro - what's the point in being 'kings' of AOE when Warlocks can only unleash them in very limited circumstances (ie when Pally is tank and Amends in on Warlock) without guaranteed certainty of death ?</p><p>Most of these problems were introduced in LU13 and haven't been adressed since. SOE still haven't gotton it into their heads that we'd like skill to determine how well we perform, not their notoriously broken Random Number Generator.</p><p>Message Edited by Magiocracy on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:34 AM</span></p>

[Seth]

<div>The problem i find with my warlock is the hate. But not so much with aoe's, its pretty obvious i cant let loose with my aoe's or yeah im going to pull aggro. My problem i find is im pulling aggro with single target dots and DD, i mean pulling aggro with DD from wizards and conjies. Now something is wrong if im doing less dmg and yet still able to pull aggro with single target DD.</div>

[Dreadwalk]

As a warlock it is so ridculously easy to die off a solo mob if a root breaks early.   Was chain interrupted other day till hittting the dirt.  2 or 3 hits from KOS mobs and we are in yellow or worse.  Compare to our pet breahtren who out dps us and can have a pet taunt the aggro off them. Our margin of error must be one of the lowest if not the lowest.  With close proximity of wandering aggro mobs in KOS this makes it even worse.An yes aggro issues , I almost feel some tanks dont want us along (except Pallys of course) due to aggro issues. Aggro management is about not casting your main AOEs in chains but spread out (if the mobs live that long) wheras the other DPS classes go full steam ahead.Not been happy with the warlock direction , and yet perhaps a few small fixes and we could be much better off.  For example Consussive could be changed to an AOE deaggro.  We are AOE masters but no AOE deaggro spell, but single target aggro reducer.<div></div>

[OperationsX]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Mimzel wrote:Dot dmg = summonersAoe dmg = WarlocksDD dmg = Wizards<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Yep and even further specified:</p><p>AoE Dot damage             = Conjuror</p><p>single target dot damage = Necro</p><p>DD damage                     = Wizard</p><p>AE damage                     = Warlock</p><p> </p><p>And you failed to mention Rift does AE damage up to **12** targets, breaking the standard 8 AE limit, Fusion is 3 max...  No 70 wizard could ever out AE a 70 warlock on 4+ mobs, especially if they are arrow up mobs. The encounter before Darathar comes to mind, at least 16 heroics in that fight, yummy for warlock with Rift.</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by OperationsX on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:08 PM</span></p>

[Magiocracy]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>OperationsX wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Mimzel wrote:Dot dmg = summonersAoe dmg = WarlocksDD dmg = Wizards<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Yep and even further specified:</p><p>AoE Dot damage             = Conjuror</p><p>single target dot damage = Necro</p><p>DD damage                     = Wizard</p><p>AE damage                     = Warlock</p><p> </p><p>And you failed to mention Rift does AE damage up to **12** targets, breaking the standard 8 AE limit, Fusion is 3 max...  No 70 wizard could ever out AE a 70 warlock on 4+ mobs, especially if they are arrow up mobs. The encounter before Darathar comes to mind, at least 16 heroics in that fight, yummy for warlock with Rift.</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by OperationsX on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:08 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>The converse argument to this is that Fusion is usable in far more situations than Rift. So there's one encounter in the game where Rift might be useful, other than that it seems to be designed to clear trash mobs, which is hardly a critical role. Fusion, although tricky to use has an application in most situations.</p><p>But let's not get distracted by Wizard V Warlock issues, the fundamental problems are mechanics related and affect both classes to a greater or lesser extent.</p>

[SenorPhrog]

<span><blockquote><hr>Cozumel wrote:I've noticed over the last several (and I do mean several) patches, there has be absolutely NO warlock "love".  We have several issues with our class:1) Top class is most # of deaths... <font color="#ff0000">Try doing solo quests with a Templar</font>2) Drag agro from even the best tanks (See #1) <font color="#ff0000">I have the same problem.  Its why I have to control my healing and you have to control your nuking</font>3) Roots break far too easily <font color="#ff0000">Root....root.  Whats a root?</font>4) Casting times are seriously too long  <font color="#ff0000">Try 3 seconds for a major heal that might keep a mage alive for another 2 seconds.  </font>5) Power consuption is off the chart  <font color="#ff0000">With great damage comes great power consumption</font>6) RIFT (Lvl 65) does 3k damage (Same as void absolution), with a 3 minute re-use... Wizards do 9k >aoe< with Fision.  Hey, I though we were the AOE masters here?? <font color="#ff0000">Funny how you neglected to mention Fision only hits 3 targets and Rift hits 5.  Sad thing is? I've never even played a wizard.</font>Please-- give us some love... And FWIW, give other classes some lovin' too! -- Coz<div></div><hr></blockquote>Every class has issues they think are top priority, mine included.   The Developers are doing the best they can with what they got.</span><div></div>

[Styk]

<div></div><div>I agree with the OP except on the whole Fusion vs Rift arguement.... For one Rift Generates next to no hate so uhh yeah, Secondly it can hit up to 12 ( the poster before me said 5 well thats wrong ) targets....</div><div> </div><div>Sorcerers already have the potential in being "fixed" its called tweaking our AA's just for that, make the AGI and INT lines BETTER( currently there last 2 abilities for each line stink something awful at rank 8 make them way more potent that 11-12% for hate decrease and faster spell cast, recast abilities  )</div><div> </div><div>Stop dropping the freaking ball SoE, When you nerfed the rangers and they cried big time  about it you were hella quick in findind that their combat art dmg was underpowerd compared to assasins ( because you borked the whole proc percentage number from day 1 ) and already have their fix inc in LU 21...</div><div> </div><div>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is that? Maybe its time both Wizards and Warlocks start a taking a cue from the Ranger class because they seem to have found a way to get your attention fast huh ? ( i think Enchanters should too to be honest )</div><div> </div><div>SOE stop trying to come up with a fix for pet class dps ( which is obviously the next step since you were so quick on removing the pet dps nerf from LU 21 ) leave them alone  instead work on fixing sorceror dps , the Pet classes where they are they are fine!!!!</div><div> </div><div>SOE stop screwing around and fix your primary mechanics before you introduce new concepts into this game....</div><p>Message Edited by Styker on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:55 PM</span></p>

[Styk]

<div>it double posted somehow</div><p>Message Edited by Styker on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:53 PM</span></p>

[Magiocracy]

<div>It also should be remembered that Warlocks have the biggest number of utterly useless spell lines of any class</div><div> </div><div>Curse of Nothingness Line/Curse of Desolation Line/Pillaging Line all completely and totally worthless.</div><div> </div>

[Styk]

<div></div><div>now it triple posted lol sorry bout that yall</div><p>Message Edited by Styker on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:53 PM</span></p>

[innervoid]

Playing a warlock, I have to agree with the warlocks being...well almost useless.Sure, give us a few groups of grey or green mobs, and will plow through them, but really, is that what is called useful? How about making us useful not in those 5% encounter chances?Honestly, if necro pets aren't going to be nerfed, then the sorcerer class needs a serious look into. Soloing with a necro I could take 4 same level mobs ^^^ with no problem using app1 spells (and pet). It was ridiculous. And if I was fighting 1 mob, and got an add...no problem, I had the pet to tank. As a warlock, if I get an add...oh yeah run like hell or die.In PvP, since we cast at max range, if root breaks, we are dead, if we get jumped we are dead. With all the stuns and interrupts, I barely have a chance to make a 2s cast, and if it gets resisted...well gg. With the resists in poison and disease, since it works vs scout and necro classes, we are nerfed in dps in PvP. Necros have pets that do great dps (physical), same with scout classes, while we just get our spells resisted or our damage lowered.If we winning a fight, and they run (since we got root at max range), there is no way to kill them as they run and it takes 2s to stop and cast a spell, when they are already out of range.I think a good fix to these problems is really to give us some insta cast spells. To kill runners and have a backup dps, or if one gets interrupted we only lose half of our casting time. I mean really 2s and 3s spells (some 4s) vs a melee pvp who just resisted root. Is gg. Or even if we get root out, it breaks and then it's 2s cast BUT interrupt, stun, interrupt, dead. I mean running around isn't even an option, since we can't cast ANYTHING while doing that. We just have to stand there like an idiot taking hits hoping we don't get interrupted to cast something.Sure we are fine in group pvp when no one (if the group is dumb) to attack us, but that is rare. At least a wizard has high DD that they can do something, we can try to cast our 3s group dmg spell, then hope in that 3s we didn't get interrupted or unnoticed to...umm...cast another 3s spell...yeah right.<div></div>

[Hennyo]

Warlocks are top on deaths because BOTH AOE and single target aggro on warlocks is some of the worst in the game. First on aoe aggro, we just generate way more hate in the form of DD's than any other class by a leap and a jump. Then on single target our aggro becomes horrible during longer fights, simply because when you combine 4 or 5 dots ticking at the same time, along with proc based tempoary buffs and then mix in a nuke, and you can get tempoary extremely high dmg spikes that are very hard to manage because of the way our class is designed.<div></div>

[SenorPhrog]

<span><blockquote><hr>Styker wrote:<div>I agree with the OP except on the whole Fusion vs Rift arguement.... For one Rift Generates next to no hate so uhh yeah, Secondly it can hit up to 12 ( the poster before me said 5 well thats wrong ) targets....</div><div> </div><div>Sorcerers already have the potential in being "fixed" its called tweaking our AA's just for that, make the AGI and INT lines BETTER( currently there last 2 abilities for each line stink something awful at rank 8 make them way more potent that 11-12% for hate decrease and faster spell cast, recast abilities  )</div><div> </div><div>Stop dropping the freaking ball SoE, When you nerfed the rangers and they cried BIG TIME about it you were hella quick in findind that their combat art dmg was underpowerd compared to assasins ( because you borked the whole proc percentage number from day 1 ) and already have their fix inc in LU 21...</div><div> </div><div>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is that? Maybe its time both Wizards and Warlocks start a taking a cue from the Ranger class because they seem to have found a way to get your attention fast huh ? ( i think Enchanters should too to be honest )</div><div> </div><div>SOE STOP TRYING TO COME UP WITH A FIX FOR PET CLASS DPS ( which is obviously the next step since you were so quick on removing the pet dps nerf from LU 21 ) leave them alone AND BOOST SORCERER DPS SO THAT WE CAN BE THE KING OF DIRECT DPS LIKE WE ARE SUPPOSE TO BE leave the Pet classes where they are they are fine!!!!</div><div> </div><div>SOE stop screwing around and fix your primary mechanics before you introduce new concepts into this game.... BE</div><hr></blockquote>Maybe you can provide an updated list link?  Obviouslly the one stickied in the wizards area is out of date.   As for your RANDOM CAPS LOCK SCREAMING it makes your post REALLY HARD TO READ and I can promise you with almost certainty those get skipped over.</span><div></div>

[OperationsX]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Magiocracy wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>OperationsX wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Mimzel wrote:Dot dmg = summonersAoe dmg = WarlocksDD dmg = Wizards<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Yep and even further specified:</p><p>AoE Dot damage             = Conjuror</p><p>single target dot damage = Necro</p><p>DD damage                     = Wizard</p><p>AE damage                     = Warlock</p><p> </p><p>And you failed to mention Rift does AE damage up to **12** targets, breaking the standard 8 AE limit, Fusion is 3 max...  No 70 wizard could ever out AE a 70 warlock on 4+ mobs, especially if they are arrow up mobs. The encounter before Darathar comes to mind, at least 16 heroics in that fight, yummy for warlock with Rift.</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by OperationsX on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:08 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>The converse argument to this is that Fusion is usable in far more situations than Rift. So there's one encounter in the game where Rift might be useful, other than that it seems to be designed to clear trash mobs, which is hardly a critical role. Fusion, although tricky to use has an application in most situations.</p><p>But let's not get distracted by Wizard V Warlock issues, the fundamental problems are mechanics related and affect both classes to a greater or lesser extent.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Than just treat it like any other AE, which is the most powerfulest AE aside from maybe Apocalype, not situational at all when you look at it like that, its like almost a 4k damage AE man lol.</p><p>And yes I agree sorcerers alike have raid dps issues but those two spells definately helped bridge the gap a little</p><p>Message Edited by OperationsX on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:26 AM</span></p>

[Styk]

<div></div><div></div><p>Lol [Removed for Content] happen to my post, half the crap is in caps ( something i didnt do but it came out that way  ) and somehow it posted 3 times...( fixed it thou so now its gtg )</p><p>Funny stuff i tell ya...</p><p>Message Edited by Styker on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:56 PM</span></p>

[MilkToa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>OperationsX wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Magiocracy wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>OperationsX wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Mimzel wrote:Dot dmg = summonersAoe dmg = WarlocksDD dmg = Wizards<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Yep and even further specified:</p><p>AoE Dot damage             = Conjuror</p><p>single target dot damage = Necro</p><p>DD damage                     = Wizard</p><p>AE damage                     = Warlock</p><p> </p><p>And you failed to mention Rift does AE damage up to **12** targets, breaking the standard 8 AE limit, Fusion is 3 max...  No 70 wizard could ever out AE a 70 warlock on 4+ mobs, especially if they are arrow up mobs. The encounter before Darathar comes to mind, at least 16 heroics in that fight, yummy for warlock with Rift.</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by OperationsX on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:08 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>The converse argument to this is that Fusion is usable in far more situations than Rift. So there's one encounter in the game where Rift might be useful, other than that it seems to be designed to clear trash mobs, which is hardly a critical role. Fusion, although tricky to use has an application in most situations.</p><p>But let's not get distracted by Wizard V Warlock issues, the fundamental problems are mechanics related and affect both classes to a greater or lesser extent.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Than just treat it like any other AE, which is the most powerfulest AE aside from maybe Apocalype, not situational at all when you look at it like that, its like almost a 4k damage AE man lol.</p><p>And yes I agree sorcerers alike have raid dps issues but those two spells definately helped bridge the gap a little</p><p>Message Edited by OperationsX on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:26 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>If you had ever tried to use either of these spells then you'd know they're both situational. In most AE encounters the mobs are almost dead before you can cast rift and it's only really useful in out of encounter AE scenarios because the in group AE options for a warlock are better. Fusion takes time to position if you want it to hit more than 1 mob, the range is very small and it is often instant aggro (and death) if cast too early in an encounter. I'd take fusion over rift because it makes sense to use it as a single target nuke in some circumstances where rift doesn't. Both are good spells but aren't really game changing by any measure.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Cozumel]

First, I want to say..the topic was about Warlock LOVE..not NERF other classes.That being said:  Fusion does 9k to upto 3 targets... 9*3=27,000 dmg.Rift does ~3k dmg to upto 12 targets..but the REALITY is you have 3-5 targets..so-- OKAY, 5 Targets (Yeah right), thats 5*3=15,000 dmg (or about 50% less).So, please...don't bother with the "Drathmor" has 16 mob crap.  The MAJORITY of the time, its 2-3 targets, period.Am I asking for a nerf of Wizards?? Or...Anyone? NO!  I'm asking for Warlock Lovin' here.. no hatin!--Coz<div></div>

[QQ-Fatman]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cozumel wrote:First, I want to say..the topic was about Warlock LOVE..not NERF other classes.That being said:  Fusion does 9k to upto 3 targets... 9*3=27,000 dmg.Rift does ~3k dmg to upto 12 targets..but the REALITY is you have 3-5 targets..so-- OKAY, 5 Targets (Yeah right), thats 5*3=15,000 dmg (or about 50% less).So, please...don't bother with the "Drathmor" has 16 mob crap.  The MAJORITY of the time, its 2-3 targets, period.Am I asking for a nerf of Wizards?? Or...Anyone? NO!  I'm asking for Warlock Lovin' here.. no hatin!--Coz<div></div><hr></blockquote>Your numbers are wrong. At level 70, 472 int, Fusion: 5852-9753 (avg 7802), Rift: 2601-4335 (avg 3468.) Furion does 125% more damage than Rift each target. So, if Fusion hits 3 targets and Rift hits 5 targets, Fusion will do 35% more total damage. And it's extremely hard to use Fusion to hit 3 targets, but Rift always hits all targets. If Fusion only hits two targets and Rift hits 5, then Fusion will do 10% less damage than Rift.

[valkyrja]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Cozumel wrote:First, I want to say..the topic was about Warlock LOVE..not NERF other classes.That being said:  Fusion does 9k to upto 3 targets... 9*3=27,000 dmg.Rift does ~3k dmg to upto 12 targets..but the REALITY is you have 3-5 targets..so-- OKAY, 5 Targets (Yeah right), thats 5*3=15,000 dmg (or about 50% less).So, please...don't bother with the "Drathmor" has 16 mob crap.  The MAJORITY of the time, its 2-3 targets, period.Am I asking for a nerf of Wizards?? Or...Anyone? NO!  I'm asking for Warlock Lovin' here.. no hatin!--Coz<div></div><hr></blockquote>I think you are clearly missing that even with only 5 targets, warlocks have a much greater chance of landing rift on all 5, than wizards have of landing fusion on 3.To behonest, as a Wizard I would gladly trade fusion for rift.  I'll take the spell that is pretty much gauranteed to hit over the one that I have to be positioned just right.  Not to mention that taking the time to get in position will also be decreasing our DPS.</span></div>

[Dyshar]

<div></div>*snaps fingers* lets get back on track people.  I wanna see some Warlock/Wizard loving in the patch notes.

[MilkToa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>sparql wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Cozumel wrote:First, I want to say..the topic was about Warlock LOVE..not NERF other classes.That being said:  Fusion does 9k to upto 3 targets... 9*3=27,000 dmg.Rift does ~3k dmg to upto 12 targets..but the REALITY is you have 3-5 targets..so-- OKAY, 5 Targets (Yeah right), thats 5*3=15,000 dmg (or about 50% less).So, please...don't bother with the "Drathmor" has 16 mob crap.  The MAJORITY of the time, its 2-3 targets, period.Am I asking for a nerf of Wizards?? Or...Anyone? NO!  I'm asking for Warlock Lovin' here.. no hatin!--Coz<div></div><hr></blockquote>I think you are clearly missing that even with only 5 targets, warlocks have a much greater chance of landing rift on all 5, than wizards have of landing fusion on 3.To behonest, as a Wizard I would gladly trade fusion for rift.  I'll take the spell that is pretty much gauranteed to hit over the one that I have to be positioned just right.  Not to mention that taking the time to get in position will also be decreasing our DPS.</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>I'd love to make that trade and you'd be kicking youself in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for the rest of your wizard life. If you are only level 61 then it amazes me how you could consider trading a spell that you've never even used.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[valkyrja]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>MilkToast wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>sparql wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Cozumel wrote:First, I want to say..the topic was about Warlock LOVE..not NERF other classes.That being said:  Fusion does 9k to upto 3 targets... 9*3=27,000 dmg.Rift does ~3k dmg to upto 12 targets..but the REALITY is you have 3-5 targets..so-- OKAY, 5 Targets (Yeah right), thats 5*3=15,000 dmg (or about 50% less).So, please...don't bother with the "Drathmor" has 16 mob crap.  The MAJORITY of the time, its 2-3 targets, period.Am I asking for a nerf of Wizards?? Or...Anyone? NO!  I'm asking for Warlock Lovin' here.. no hatin!--Coz<div></div><hr></blockquote>I think you are clearly missing that even with only 5 targets, warlocks have a much greater chance of landing rift on all 5, than wizards have of landing fusion on 3.To behonest, as a Wizard I would gladly trade fusion for rift.  I'll take the spell that is pretty much gauranteed to hit over the one that I have to be positioned just right.  Not to mention that taking the time to get in position will also be decreasing our DPS.</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>I'd love to make that trade and you'd be kicking youself in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for the rest of your wizard life. If you are only level 61 then it amazes me how you could consider trading a spell that you've never even used.</p><p> </p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Because I look at the numbers and mechanics of how the spell works and know that it will be difficult to effectively use.  I play a wizard because I don't enjoy being in the middle of the fight, Fusion requires me to be.</span></div>

[Magiocracy]

<span><blockquote><hr>sparql wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>MilkToast wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>sparql wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Cozumel wrote:First, I want to say..the topic was about Warlock LOVE..not NERF other classes.That being said:  Fusion does 9k to upto 3 targets... 9*3=27,000 dmg.Rift does ~3k dmg to upto 12 targets..but the REALITY is you have 3-5 targets..so-- OKAY, 5 Targets (Yeah right), thats 5*3=15,000 dmg (or about 50% less).So, please...don't bother with the "Drathmor" has 16 mob crap.  The MAJORITY of the time, its 2-3 targets, period.Am I asking for a nerf of Wizards?? Or...Anyone? NO!  I'm asking for Warlock Lovin' here.. no hatin!--Coz<div></div><hr></blockquote>I think you are clearly missing that even with only 5 targets, warlocks have a much greater chance of landing rift on all 5, than wizards have of landing fusion on 3.To behonest, as a Wizard I would gladly trade fusion for rift.  I'll take the spell that is pretty much gauranteed to hit over the one that I have to be positioned just right.  Not to mention that taking the time to get in position will also be decreasing our DPS.</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>I'd love to make that trade and you'd be kicking youself in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for the rest of your wizard life. If you are only level 61 then it amazes me how you could consider trading a spell that you've never even used.</p><p> </p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Because I look at the numbers and mechanics of how the spell works and know that it will be difficult to effectively use.  I play a wizard because I don't enjoy being in the middle of the fight, Fusion requires me to be.</span></div><hr></blockquote>Well you might take a closer look at the mechanics of Rift - it's a non-encounter AE with a wide radius so unless you're in a big open space with no other mobs around it looks (I don't know since I'm not 65 yet) risky enough to use.And I'd bet that if used in dungeons it would draw aggro through the walls/floors/ceilings etc (maybe someone who has the spell can correct me on this).</span><div></div>

[Cozumel]

You are correct..rift pulls mobs through walls. <div></div>

[valkyrja]

The fact is, Rift and Fusion are both very situational spells.  Both have potential to be awesome when used in the correct situation, and both have potential to be very disappointing when used in the wrong one.The grass is always greener on the other side of your sister class it seems.<div></div>

[Tevilspek]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Cozumel wrote:4) Casting times are seriously too long<div></div><hr></blockquote>This is pretty much the sole reason I gave up on playing my Warlock. It just became a really boring class. The only time they're truly effective is long AoE fights from my experience.Their casting times reaaaally need to be reduced.My Warlock has been 57 for months and probably going to stay that way. I just don't see anything interesting and fun in playing him anymore.</span></div>

[Styk]

<div>Don't worry we are "gettin some luv" in LU 21, i mean we are getting a new spiffy spell to replace our only true deagro spell yayyyyy!!! ( NOT ) Also they are fixing Dark Infestation to stack on raids now ( but no mention about the buggers stopping when they proc from a distance and doing the two step before they reach their target  )</div><div> </div><div>But hey i guess we shouldnt complain right ? We are the "kings of Area Damage" ROFLAMO yeah like i can use em on raids effectively ( wait i forget by the time i cast one spell the trash fights on raids are dead already )</div><div> </div><div>WTG SoE on LU 21 , once again we are ignored ( grats thou to the ranger class, they put in a fix for yall pretty fast )</div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<blockquote><hr>MilkToast wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>sparql wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Cozumel wrote:First, I want to say..the topic was about Warlock LOVE..not NERF other classes.That being said:  Fusion does 9k to upto 3 targets... 9*3=27,000 dmg.Rift does ~3k dmg to upto 12 targets..but the REALITY is you have 3-5 targets..so-- OKAY, 5 Targets (Yeah right), thats 5*3=15,000 dmg (or about 50% less).So, please...don't bother with the "Drathmor" has 16 mob crap.  The MAJORITY of the time, its 2-3 targets, period.Am I asking for a nerf of Wizards?? Or...Anyone? NO!  I'm asking for Warlock Lovin' here.. no hatin!--Coz<div></div><hr></blockquote>I think you are clearly missing that even with only 5 targets, warlocks have a much greater chance of landing rift on all 5, than wizards have of landing fusion on 3.To behonest, as a Wizard I would gladly trade fusion for rift.  I'll take the spell that is pretty much gauranteed to hit over the one that I have to be positioned just right.  Not to mention that taking the time to get in position will also be decreasing our DPS.</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>I'd love to make that trade and you'd be kicking youself in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for the rest of your wizard life. If you are only level 61 then it amazes me how you could consider trading a spell that you've never even used.</p><p> </p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>I dont have class envy, nor do i like to say the grass is greener on one side, but I'd like to point out that you can use rift for soloing heroics(provided there isn't much agro around), wizards can not use fusion for soloing heroics because we must be in mele range to use it. </p><p>I've tried dozens of times to get just the right distance away so when I pull mob I'm casting fusion right as he enters mele range (4.5s cast timer is hard to time when pulling a mob) its incredibly difficutl to get right (so you dont get hit with mele) more than 20% of the time and not worth it for a soloing wizard.</p>

[MilkToa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>IllusiveThoughts wrote:<blockquote><hr>MilkToast wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>sparql wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Cozumel wrote:First, I want to say..the topic was about Warlock LOVE..not NERF other classes.That being said:  Fusion does 9k to upto 3 targets... 9*3=27,000 dmg.Rift does ~3k dmg to upto 12 targets..but the REALITY is you have 3-5 targets..so-- OKAY, 5 Targets (Yeah right), thats 5*3=15,000 dmg (or about 50% less).So, please...don't bother with the "Drathmor" has 16 mob crap.  The MAJORITY of the time, its 2-3 targets, period.Am I asking for a nerf of Wizards?? Or...Anyone? NO!  I'm asking for Warlock Lovin' here.. no hatin!--Coz<div></div><hr></blockquote>I think you are clearly missing that even with only 5 targets, warlocks have a much greater chance of landing rift on all 5, than wizards have of landing fusion on 3.To behonest, as a Wizard I would gladly trade fusion for rift.  I'll take the spell that is pretty much gauranteed to hit over the one that I have to be positioned just right.  Not to mention that taking the time to get in position will also be decreasing our DPS.</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>I'd love to make that trade and you'd be kicking youself in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for the rest of your wizard life. If you are only level 61 then it amazes me how you could consider trading a spell that you've never even used.</p><p> </p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>I dont have class envy, nor do i like to say the grass is greener on one side, but I'd like to point out that you can use rift for soloing heroics(provided there isn't much agro around), wizards can not use fusion for soloing heroics because we must be in mele range to use it. </p><p>I've tried dozens of times to get just the right distance away so when I pull mob I'm casting fusion right as he enters mele range (4.5s cast timer is hard to time when pulling a mob) its incredibly difficutl to get right (so you dont get hit with mele) more than 20% of the time and not worth it for a soloing wizard.</p><hr></blockquote><p>The problem is that rift doesn't do much more damage than void absolution (a master 2 spell option) which is an encounter AE that doesn't have any special range restrictions and has 1 sec less cast time. I understand that its challanging to use the spell but the damage output seems worth the risk for fusion, where the damage output of rift isn't (on a solo mob). As a warlock I think I could keep the mob stunned/stifle long enough to get the fusion off standing next to the mob, but that's just theory.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>MilkToast wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>IllusiveThoughts wrote:<blockquote><hr>MilkToast wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>sparql wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Cozumel wrote:First, I want to say..the topic was about Warlock LOVE..not NERF other classes.That being said:  Fusion does 9k to upto 3 targets... 9*3=27,000 dmg.Rift does ~3k dmg to upto 12 targets..but the REALITY is you have 3-5 targets..so-- OKAY, 5 Targets (Yeah right), thats 5*3=15,000 dmg (or about 50% less).So, please...don't bother with the "Drathmor" has 16 mob crap.  The MAJORITY of the time, its 2-3 targets, period.Am I asking for a nerf of Wizards?? Or...Anyone? NO!  I'm asking for Warlock Lovin' here.. no hatin!--Coz<div></div><hr></blockquote>I think you are clearly missing that even with only 5 targets, warlocks have a much greater chance of landing rift on all 5, than wizards have of landing fusion on 3.To behonest, as a Wizard I would gladly trade fusion for rift.  I'll take the spell that is pretty much gauranteed to hit over the one that I have to be positioned just right.  Not to mention that taking the time to get in position will also be decreasing our DPS.</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>I'd love to make that trade and you'd be kicking youself in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for the rest of your wizard life. If you are only level 61 then it amazes me how you could consider trading a spell that you've never even used.</p><p> </p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>I dont have class envy, nor do i like to say the grass is greener on one side, but I'd like to point out that you can use rift for soloing heroics(provided there isn't much agro around), wizards can not use fusion for soloing heroics because we must be in mele range to use it. </p><p>I've tried dozens of times to get just the right distance away so when I pull mob I'm casting fusion right as he enters mele range (4.5s cast timer is hard to time when pulling a mob) its incredibly difficutl to get right (so you dont get hit with mele) more than 20% of the time and not worth it for a soloing wizard.</p><hr></blockquote><p>The problem is that rift doesn't do much more damage than void absolution (a master 2 spell option) which is an encounter AE that doesn't have any special range restrictions and has 1 sec less cast time. I understand that its challanging to use the spell but the damage output seems worth the risk for fusion, where the damage output of rift isn't (on a solo mob). As a warlock I think I could keep the mob stunned/stifle long enough to get the fusion off standing next to the mob, but that's just theory.</p><p> </p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>lol I said heroic mob bud <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I can use fusion on solo mobs and regularly do I just use my dumb fire pet to tank while I que up its 4.5s cast timer.</p><p>wizards do not have a stun that lasts longer than 3 sec.  fusion with max cast timer aa is 4.5s.  a blue-yellow heroic will drop a wiz in 2 swings (the difference from the end of stun till when fusion casts, and thats if you dont get interrupted) when stifled heroics will still mele on you and that also = dead.</p><p>point being that you can use it on heroics, which is another nuke you can use in your arsinal.  we cant.  (dont want to start a wiz/war flame on the spell just wanted to point out that difference)</p>

[Windowlicker]

<div></div>This class should be Tier 1 DPS.  Please fix it so that is the fact.

[TheSlashman]

<div>Warlock suppose to be AOE kings right?  Why does everyone and their brother have max aoes?  Swashey? conjur?</div><div> </div><div>If SOE made us AOE king, MAKE IT THAT!!!</div>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

Man I love the wizards who keep defending or implying rift being better than fusion, and the way they try to explain it is by saying if this and if that etc then rift is better! That's right, <i>if. </i>The other 99% of the time fusion comes out on top. Neither is hard to use on raids unless it is a named with a close range ae(s) that the mages need to avoid in which case you wouldn't use rift either - 5s cast to do about 3k dmg? No thanks. In a lot of situations fusion is very much usable so don't go on about it being not very raid friendly.Ok just say there are 5 targets right, which is not even that common so forget about 12 targets, why would we use rift when we have apocalypse and void absolution? By the time we are done casting those - not even utilising other aes or ae enhcnacers - there is probably one or two targets left, time to use rift? Rift seriously needs to be a large single target dd.Rift does not even provoke fear into people, no one even talks about it and envies it, everyone just goes fusion for the win. All non wizards will tell you fusion is better than rift, intuition dictates it. Our guild wizard is averaging 1450dps on singles believe it or not so warlocks are the only non enchanter mage that needs a bit of loving right now, mainly aggro management but many other miscallaneous probs.

[Cozumel]

Its really quite simple.Fusion does 9k x3Rift does 3k x399.999% of all encounters are 2-3 mobs MAX. Sure, you have the botched pull that pulls 4-6 mobs... but lemme tell ya, RIFT @ 3k dmg to each one of them isn't gunna save a group, all it does is give the already agro-prone paper-wearing warlocks more agro.It takes 9 MOBS (9mobsx3k=27) to equal the damage of Fusion (3mobsx9kDamage=27) to do the same AOE (hello..are we AOE masters??) damage.How can ANYONE not see that rift is majorly GIIIMPED?  I mean seriously people.. 9 mobs to equal the damage of Fusion?  3k?? I might as well cast absolution..at (without AA's) 12sec recast instead of RIFT w/3min re-cast. -- Coz<div></div>

[QQ-Fatman]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cozumel wrote:Its really quite simple.Fusion does 9k x3Rift does 3k x399.999% of all encounters are 2-3 mobs MAX. Sure, you have the botched pull that pulls 4-6 mobs... but lemme tell ya, RIFT @ 3k dmg to each one of them isn't gunna save a group, all it does is give the already agro-prone paper-wearing warlocks more agro.It takes 9 MOBS (9mobsx3k=27) to equal the damage of Fusion (3mobsx9kDamage=27) to do the same AOE (hello..are we AOE masters??) damage.How can ANYONE not see that rift is majorly GIIIMPED?  I mean seriously people.. 9 mobs to equal the damage of Fusion?  3k?? I might as well cast absolution..at (without AA's) 12sec recast instead of RIFT w/3min re-cast. -- Coz<div></div><hr></blockquote><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=50643#M50643" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=50643#M50643</a>I already told you your numbers are wrong. Read it please.

[Cozumel]

No, my numbers aren't crap..and if you want a more SIMPLISTIC way to look at it:It requires a warlock to hit >1< MOB (9k) to do the same damage as the typical "large" encounter (3 mobs) as Rift for 9k damage.PLUS, 3k doesn't generally kill a mob, it just makes it a little more angry at you.The fact is that the damage from RIFT is the SAME damage as Absolution except its on a 3 min recast instead of 12 sec... and 1/2 the damage as Apocolypse (~5k) on a 45 sec recast.Even if we leave fusion out of this, the fact is that RIFT isn't powerful whatsoever.<div></div>

[Poochymama]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cozumel wrote:No, my numbers aren't crap..and if you want a more SIMPLISTIC way to look at it:It requires a warlock to hit >1< MOB (9k) to do the same damage as the typical "large" encounter (3 mobs) as Rift for 9k damage.PLUS, 3k doesn't generally kill a mob, it just makes it a little more angry at you.The fact is that the damage from RIFT is the SAME damage as Absolution except its on a 3 min recast instead of 12 sec... and 1/2 the damage as Apocolypse (~5k) on a 45 sec recast.Even if we leave fusion out of this, the fact is that RIFT isn't powerful whatsoever.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Yes, your numbers are wrong. Don't try to deny it</p><p> </p><p>Fusion 7.8k (not 9k)</p><p>Rift 3.5k (not 3k)</p>

[massem]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cozumel wrote:No, my numbers aren't crap..and if you want a more SIMPLISTIC way to look at it:It requires a warlock to hit >1< MOB (9k) to do the same damage as the typical "large" encounter (3 mobs) as Rift for 9k damage.<hr></blockquote><div>In groups, most often Fusion hits one target, sometimes two. Once or twice in 5 levels since level 65 I have managed to hit 3 targets but this is extremely rare. This means Rift clearly becomes a superior spell on encounters with 4 or more targets and is roughly equal on 3 targets, and is slightly worse on 2 targets. That you already had a spell that was even better is not really relevant.</div><div> </div><div>And why don't you compare the damage potentional of Apocalypse to that of Ice Nova ? :smileyhappy:</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[MrWolfie]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> masseman wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And why don't you compare the damage potentional of Apocalypse to that of Ice Nova ? :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You're all missing the point. All of these spells and abilities are situational. Neither one nor the other is better.</P> <P>The difference between a Wizard and a Warlock (in a group, raid or otherwise) is that the Warlock will die more often. That has nothing to do with the abilities either class has at the moment. It is down to the design of the classes. Single target DD is the archetype for Sorcerors. Pre-LU13, Wizards were elemental and Warlocks were Poison/Disease. For some unknown reason, someone at SOE decided that since the two classes were so similar they had to be made different. Wizards stayed DD, Warlocks went AOE (or half-AOE, since none of their dots are AOE).</P> <P>Unfortunately, Warlocks were not given an ability to shift AOE aggro to another group member (or pet) and that's why they're BROKEN.</P> <P> </P> <P>Now, Wizards AND Warlocks are consistently outdamaged by other classes, including those not designed to be T1 (and once by a Fury in my own experience). This is what's broken with Sorcerors.</P> <P> </P> <P align=right>Please try to concentrate on the issues, rather than back-biting over whose spell sucks more.</P> <P> </P>

[RowenaRedarm]

<P>Yes, once warlocks were gods and so had to be brought low. Warlocks are the biggest aggro magnets, have  the longest casting times made worse by the need for nil crystals being required for our most powerful spells, cast ineffective roots, and possess no useful utility spells. All this while wizzies have massive aoe and dd spells above and beyond any other class in the game, need no spellcasting resource for any spell, and also have group evac, a non-health damaging mana restoration spell, and a powerful ward that surrounds them in a lovely turqoise aura (I want one!).  </P> <P>Clearly the warlock class needs some serious rethinking to offset the inequities between these supposedly "balanced" classes--maybe make warlocks able to dual wield and give us some serious melee damage, give us heavier armor abilities (like a mystic), and some truly useful utility ability or spell...Or reduce our cast times and increase our dps. Either way would be welcome, Sony devs. Thanks for listening.</P> <P>Arrowfey, 70 Warlock--Order of Valour, Butcherblock</P>

[Vulking]

<DIV> <P> </P> <P><STRONG><FONT size=4>RowenaRedarm wrote</FONT></STRONG>:</P> <P>Yes, once warlocks were gods and so had to be brought low. Warlocks are the biggest aggro magnets, have  the longest casting times made worse by the need for nil crystals being required for our most powerful spells, cast ineffective roots, and possess no useful utility spells. All this while wizzies have massive aoe and dd spells above and beyond any other class in the game, need no spellcasting resource for any spell, and also have group evac, a non-health damaging mana restoration spell, and a powerful ward that surrounds them in a lovely turqoise aura (I want one!).  </P> <P>Clearly the warlock class needs some serious rethinking to offset the inequities between these supposedly "balanced" classes--maybe make warlocks able to dual wield and give us some serious melee damage, give us heavier armor abilities (like a mystic), and some truly useful utility ability or spell...Or reduce our cast times and increase our dps. Either way would be welcome, Sony devs. Thanks for listening.</P> <P>_______________________________</P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Interesting!<BR>I got to say, <EM>(being fairly new to the warlock subclass (lvl. 34), but not to the mage class, (wizard 65)),</EM> that warlocks are far weaker than I thought they were.  Especially in solo play.  Its the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] root!  It sucks.  I have noticed that it sticks maybe 1/3 of the time.  And no its not my subjugation, (its maxed).  With my wizzy my roots stick roughly 90% of the time.  Where this really matters is after the first root breaks and you have been hitting on a mob and go to re-apply a root.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Thats why after reading your post I was inspired to add a little to what you were saying.  <STRONG><FONT color=#66cc00>Perhaps warlocks should just lose the ability to root all-together and get a <FONT color=#6666ff>self ward</FONT> in return, (similar to the mystic ward, albit not as powerful)</FONT></STRONG>.  I guess that I always saw a wizard as stand-offish, where as I always saw a warlock in the thick of it. Much more of the battlemage type.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>ps.  I just wanted to add, that perhaps a self ward would help with the dieing problems too! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></P></DIV><p>Message Edited by Hammarus on <span class=date_text>04-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:28 AM</span>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cozumel wrote:<BR>No, my numbers aren't crap..and if you want a more SIMPLISTIC way to look at it:<BR><BR>It requires a warlock to hit >1< MOB (9k) to do the same damage as the typical "large" encounter (3 mobs) as Rift for 9k damage.<BR><BR>PLUS, 3k doesn't generally kill a mob, it just makes it a little more angry at you.<BR><BR>The fact is that the damage from RIFT is the SAME damage as Absolution except its on a 3 min recast instead of 12 sec... and 1/2 the damage as Apocolypse (~5k) on a 45 sec recast.<BR><BR>Even if we leave fusion out of this, the fact is that RIFT isn't powerful whatsoever.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>aside from the glariing differences in your #'s  one thing you have to factor in is that fusion requires some positioning work, meaning you loose 2-3s just getting into position where with rift you can stay where you are and cast away.</P> <P>That difference alone along with the fact that the warlock spell has a far superior potential damage output should make the spells equal in most siutations.  btw have you even bothered to parse with a wizard in a group that uses fusion and you use rift?  who deals more aoe dmg.... big suprise on that one--the warlock does!</P>

[massem]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrWolfie wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> masseman wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And why don't you compare the damage potentional of Apocalypse to that of Ice Nova ? :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You're all missing the point. All of these spells and abilities are situational. Neither one nor the other is better.</P> <P>The difference between a Wizard and a Warlock (in a group, raid or otherwise) is that the Warlock will die more often. That has nothing to do with the abilities either class has at the moment. It is down to the design of the classes. Single target DD is the archetype for Sorcerors. Pre-LU13, Wizards were elemental and Warlocks were Poison/Disease. For some unknown reason, someone at SOE decided that since the two classes were so similar they had to be made different. Wizards stayed DD, Warlocks went AOE (or half-AOE, since none of their dots are AOE).</P> <P>Unfortunately, Warlocks were not given an ability to shift AOE aggro to another group member (or pet) and that's why they're BROKEN.</P> <P> </P> <P>Now, Wizards AND Warlocks are consistently outdamaged by other classes, including those not designed to be T1 (and once by a Fury in my own experience). This is what's broken with Sorcerors.</P> <P> </P> <P align=right>Please try to concentrate on the issues, rather than back-biting over whose spell sucks more.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes I agree completely, and that is why I was correcting Cozumel when he stated that Fusion is superior to Rift. It depends on the situation which one is best as you say and as I exemplified in my posts. Wizards can also put out some serious AE damage and also need the passive hate reducers. Landing Fusion on more than one mob usually means certain death, or chaining all our AE spells spells. Also wizards have aggro issues, although I agree they are worse for Warlocks. </P> <P>Aggro and power consumptions are clearly the main issues that need  to be looked at with the Sorcerers right now.</P>

[Vulking]

<P>I"m sorry people but any chance that warlocks are "up to snuff" with thier T1 dps bretheren is a joke.  Any claiming that our AoE ability makes up our dps is a sad sad joke.  Why?  Because we are the left handers in a right handed world.  </P> <P>10% of the mobs show up as big groups, big enough to justify using AoEs, the rest are single targets.</P> <P>That simple fact makes our class deficient.  </P> <P>(And what the hell is up with the incredibly long recast timers!!)</P>

[GentleStorm]

<P>Hammarus wrote :-</P><FONT color=#ff9900> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Thats why after reading your post I was inspired to add a little to what you were saying.  <STRONG><FONT color=#66cc00>Perhaps warlocks should just lose the ability to root all-together and get a <FONT color=#6666ff>self ward</FONT> in return, (similar to the mystic ward, albit not as powerful)</FONT></STRONG>.  I guess that I always saw a wizard as stand-offish, where as I always saw a warlock in the thick of it. Much more of the battlemage type.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>ps.  I just wanted to add, that perhaps a self ward would help with the dieing problems too! <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></FONT></P></FONT> <P><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT> </P> <P>I must admit that I like that idea, someone else suggested heavier armour but Im betting that Warly's won't want to give up robe wearing in the near future....:smileytongue:</P>