LU21 bring changes to the crafting?

[The Mo]

I heard that come LU 21crafting will be something like the system of t1,2,and7 in terms of you only need the raws to make the item not all the subcomponets.  Can any comfirm this?<div></div>

[Calthine]

<div></div><p>From what Beghn's said, probably not:</p><hr><p>Beghn wrote:</p><blockquote><hr>Quasicroako wrote:<div></div><blockquote>It just would be nice to get a rough idea of how long we are looking at should everything go good. Heck give us the worst case scenario too.</blockquote><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#ffff00">It takes me about a week and a 1/2 to do 2 10 level ranges like 1-20.  So I'm expexcting these to be done in anyware ranging from 2 weeks to a month and a 1/2.  Depending on how long testing takes on them and when the next live update it could stretch that time a little longer.  This, rare t6 carpentry recipes, and outstanding bugs are currently on my plate for things to work on for a bit.</font> </p><p></p><hr><p>(<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=88954"><font color="#c8c1b5">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=88954</font></a>)</p>

[Grycks]

<div></div><p>Argh! How long have they been working on them then?</p><p> </p><p>"This really pisses me off to no end!"</p><p>-Lo Pan</p><p> </p>

[Femur]

<div></div><p>Not as long as Carpenters have been waiting for their T6 rare recipies. :smileyindifferent:  Be patient, it'll come when it comes, rushing it through will do nothing but give you more grief with a bugged system that has bugged recipies.  I feel for you waiting and am not sure what your tradeskill preference is but I'm very happy to hear that they finally put the Carpenters up to the top of the list to give them what they've been waiting for since the release of DoF.</p>

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>Grycks wrote:<p>Argh! How long have they been working on them then?</p><hr></blockquote>KoS and T7 were released on the 21st of Feb.  The work on the rest of the teirs as well as the T6 carpentry rares and the rest have been on the to do list after T7 was finished.Most likelywe'll start seeing a trickle of teir by teir going to Test with the changes over a couple LUs </span><span>(my preference)</span><span>-or-we'll see a trickle going out in hot fixes without going to Test first and taking a couple months to fully complete-or-we'll see everything dumped to Test at one time (probably in LU#22 or #23) and then to Live-or-we'll see everything dumped into an LU going to Live (by passing Test) when it'd done (probably LU#22 or #23)Most likely, or rather hopefully, the majority of the change will occur before Fan Faire so concerns and stuff raised at Fan Faire won't be put on hold or droped into the round file.</span><div></div>

[valkyrja]

I have been holding off crafting for about 2 months now waiting for the changes to come, as I don't want to have a bunch of interims one night, log in the next day and they are useless.  I really hope they start getting these in there.<div></div>

[Jai1]

<div></div>I'd like to see what he's working be implemented as he finishes a tier for a proffession in each update. Tested of course.  It would be gradual and would rather see it bottom up since T6 is still being used for exp for T7 crafters.  It would also let the new players start into the new system.  But they may be going for full changeover in a single update. 

[Grycks]

<div></div><p>Rijacki: "KoS and T7 were released on the 21st of Feb.  The work on the rest of the teirs as well as the T6 carpentry rares and the rest have been on the to do list after T7 was finished."</p><p> </p><p>We were being told prior to the release of Kingdom of Sky that the new crafting system would be implemented at the same time. Then it was "delayed". I just want to know how much longer??</p>

[Rijacki]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Grycks wrote:<div></div><p>Rijacki: "KoS and T7 were released on the 21st of Feb.  The work on the rest of the teirs as well as the T6 carpentry rares and the rest have been on the to do list after T7 was finished."</p><p>We were being told prior to the release of Kingdom of Sky that the new crafting system would be implemented at the same time. Then it was "delayed". I just want to know how much longer??</p><hr></blockquote>Actually Beghn had said, prior to LU#19 release, that he was working on T1 and T2 spells/CAs first, T7 second, and then the rest of the tiers.  He also had to fit in the writs for T6 and T7 while working on T7 (he released the T7 potions and poisons to Test -after- the T6 and T7 writs).  There was hopes (probably not by him) that the whole crafting system would be changed with LU#20, but there were never any promises that it definately would be.Beghn, since the release of KoS has said it will take a while to finish out the other tiers, based on what he posted about the work involved, several of us speculate it will be fully converted 1 to 2 months after the release of KoS.Some of us (maybe most of us) hope it will actually go to Test before it gets sent to Live, not just because of the warning that would give but because we know it's going to have bugs (not because Beghn is a bad coder, but because this is a HUGE change) and would like to have a few found before it's in Live.  Some of us would like to have it go to Test/Live in stages, a teir or two at a time so it has a chance to settle itself a bit without the total choas.There is a stickied post in the Tradeskill forum of all Beghn's actual announcements.  You might want to actually read those.</span></div>

[Looker1010]

<div></div>I'm saddened and disappointed that Sony took the one combine from raws approach, thereby dumbing down crafting forever. I would have preferred batch refine instead, as a means of speeding up the crafting process and reducing tedium. With one combine, for me, there is absolutely no sense of accomplishment. I will no longer be a crafter, merely a button pusher...

[Bloodey]

<div></div><p>I was a fanatical crafter in eq 1 even with the eternal drag, drop, click method.  From day 1 I've enjoyed crafting in EQ 2 but it quickly became very dull.  when you have to make a stack of 20 3rd level items and a stack of 2 or 3 other items as well just to get ready to do the combine for the item you wanted to make in the first place it gets a bit discouraging.   With the changes they brought out allowing combines from raw, eliminating the tedious subcombines it made crafting possible for me as a casual player who spends 20% of his time crafting 50% shopping 10% Questing and 20% hunting. I think the changes they've made are great.  It allows people like me who spend far to much time buying crafted items to do some crafting and not go crazy.   I don't think it's dumbed down crafting at all, I think they made a good move to allow people with less time due to evil things like having a job experiece another part of the game.   now if they could only add quantity combines.</p><p>this is only an opinion please try not to dump gas over me and reach for a match</p><p> </p><p>Bloodeyes</p><p> </p>

[tariq0]

<div>you know , it is a tradeskill, you don't take bunch of metal and create a car from that.It is dumbing down , and it will put EQ2 economy in total chaos.You don't want to spend money buying stuff , then make an effort and make it.Yeah it could be a dull process , but pls don't tell me that most of the jobs are exciting.What it counts is final product that you can use it .</div><div>Or go to WoW and max your tradeskill in 3 days time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div>

[Cuz]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>tariq071 wrote:<div>you know , it is a tradeskill, you don't take bunch of metal and create a car from that.It is dumbing down , and it will put EQ2 economy in total chaos.You don't want to spend money buying stuff , then make an effort and make it.Yeah it could be a dull process , but pls don't tell me that most of the jobs are exciting.What it counts is final product that you can use it .</div><div>Or go to WoW and max your tradeskill in 3 days time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>To me dumbing down (god I hate that buzz word) is the removal of intelligent thought process. Said simpler, you don't have to think as much. I never had to think much in the old crafting system. Most of the time the biggest connundrum I'd face was "do I want to waste a few hours making stuff for a guildmate?".</p><p>To me this whole "dumbing down" of the crafting system is like saying it takes more thought process walking 15 minutes than walking 5 minutes.</p>

[Runewind]

<span><blockquote><hr>Jenoy wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>tariq071 wrote:<div>you know , it is a tradeskill, you don't take bunch of metal and create a car from that.It is dumbing down , and it will put EQ2 economy in total chaos.You don't want to spend money buying stuff , then make an effort and make it.Yeah it could be a dull process , but pls don't tell me that most of the jobs are exciting.What it counts is final product that you can use it .</div><div>Or go to WoW and max your tradeskill in 3 days time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>To me dumbing down (god I hate that buzz word) is the removal of intelligent thought process. Said simpler, you don't have to think as much. I never had to think much in the old crafting system. Most of the time the biggest connundrum I'd face was "do I want to waste a few hours making stuff for a guildmate?".</p><p>To me this whole "dumbing down" of the crafting system is like saying it takes more thought process walking 15 minutes than walking 5 minutes.</p><hr></blockquote>I don't like the term either but I think your definition is a bit off. I think the use of "dumbing down" is more or less "make things have less risk and more reward" That's what this does. Mind you I like the changes. (I played on beta) They're quite good. They take forever to level up with though because you get less exp. I hope this is what they're working on. But yeah just clarifying what I think people mean by dumbing down. You don't have to do subcombines anymore this means you have less chances to screw up and end up losing pristine. It also means you don't have to deal with tradeskills outside of your chosen profession i.e. you don't need to make paper using woodcraft to make a spell. So while you may not think about tradeskilling any less with this new tradeskill system. Your character does. He doesn't have to think as hard about skills he doesn't know he can just focus on the stuff he does know and get by like that.</span><div></div>

[Kaknya]

 you want it harder? then have them just make you have to counter every 2 seconds, and if you flub a counter, you loose alot of durability.. honestly i never have a problem as it is making anything pristine, if durability starts droping too low, you just start spaming the 1,2,3 keys and it brings it back up again. always thought the current system was too easy and boring as it is,.. which is why i hardly craft anymore, except for if its something i really need. the add in me i guess, i just can't stand doing the same thing over and over again. I don't really see the new system as harder OR easier,.. It's just different. Just don't think crafting should be so mindless, that i can eat dinner and watch tv while doing it.<div></div>

[btennison]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>tariq071 wrote:<div>you know , it is a tradeskill, you don't take bunch of metal and create a car from that.It is dumbing down , and it will put EQ2 economy in total chaos.You don't want to spend money buying stuff , then make an effort and make it.Yeah it could be a dull process , <font color="#ffcc66">but pls don't tell me that most of the jobs are exciting</font>.What it counts is final product that you can use it .</div><div>Or go to WoW and max your tradeskill in 3 days time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>I find it unbelievable that people still mistake EQ2 for a "job." This is a GAME. A game is a thing that you pay to play, in your free time, and is supposed to be fun and entertaining. A job, on the other hand, is something you are paid to do and is not necessarily fun but is monetarily rewarding (with REAL money that can be used in the real world).</p><p>I see so many folks here talk about how much they hate the "dumbing down" of crafting, even some of my guildies, but try to get them to make food for my ranger. I tried to get a guildie to make some 5 hour drinks awhile back and was told "that's why no one wants to craft for you", "it takes 8 hours to make your drinks & food".  So it's "too demanding" when I want something crafted but if I want it made a little simpler I'm "dumbing down" the crafting. [Removed for Content]? :smileyindifferent:</p>

[Jai1]

<div></div>Crafting can be rationally compared to working because its also a means to making money.  With the old system, it really seemed like a job at times.

[Mimzel]

<div>I think it is useful not forgetting that people might have different viewpoints depending on what profession they play. It's not fair that an evaluation of the entire crafting change should be based on one, or maybe a few professions. I would think that most, if not all, professions making eatible or decaying (or otherwise not-sustainable goods) are generally happy about the subs going away, and especially happy about pristine yielding two final products. It makes sense, as they now can cater to the masses.</div><div> </div><div>However, a person making armor, weapons, boxes etc might be dreading the changes from the bottom of his heart, because what this change does it treat every profession as if they are making non-sustainable goods. Its great that the brokers are well stocked up on food and drink, but is it equally good that its filled to the brim with strongboxes and various armors that people only buy one of to begin with?</div><div> </div><div>On an important sidenote, there is an issue with harvesting now that all professions are facing which will make a whole new challange in the tradeskill process.</div>

[KBern]

<div></div><p>It simply removes the ridiculous time sink previous crafting was.</p><p>It is no harder to craft with the old recipes than it is the new.  You just do not need a seperate database with spreadsheets and forty differnt subcombines cluttering up your bank to make a simple item.</p><p>Now SWG had dumbed down crafting.  You just put in a box and hit ok.  You even could have factories do it for you in mass production.</p><p>At least EQ2 still has you using the same reactive buffs to make sure your end product is of a certain quality.</p>

[Krooner]

<div></div><p>Based on the number of raws its going to take to craft with the new system.  It would be " Nice " if they upped the number of harvestable nodes by 20%</p><p> </p>

[Kiester]

Although tiers 1 & 2 where a breeze and tiers 3+ have sucked a bit....if they dumb it down enough then everybody will be crafting.  As a 35 sage, those subcombines do get tiedious but the I still want it to be 'special'.   A good idea would be to increase the amount you make per combine.  Example, the resin,oil and wash needed to make spells can be made up to 4 at a time.  So to make 20 of those it only takes 5 combines.  After that is when it gets boring.  If the reagents, dyes and inks also made up to quantity 4 per combine then it would speed tjhings up.  The same with the quills and paper.  I have to refine lumber 20 times, then make quills 20 times.  The same for the paper.  Increase it to up to 4 and it cuts the time dramatically.  Any thoughs? or has this been brought up before?  (I haven't really read through all of the posts)<div></div>

[KBern]

<div></div><p>I have gotten a alchie to 26, a jeweler to 26, and a prov (craftsman) to 19.</p><p>I just lose interest when I want to make a drink and it takes 8 sub combines to do it.</p><p>Crafting should be fun, not tedious....and the present state it is tedious, at least to myself and many others I speak to that are successful crafters.</p>

[Lutefisk]

<div>btennison wrote:</div><div> I tried to get a guildie to make some 5 hour drinks awhile back and was told "that's why no one wants to craft for you", "it takes 8 hours to make your drinks & food".  So it's "too demanding" when I want something crafted but if I want it made a little simpler I'm "dumbing down" the crafting. [Removed for Content]?</div><div> </div><div>******************************************</div><div> </div><div>Sounds like your guildie tried to tell you that you're a spoiled brat (of whatever age) and that all you do is ask for top-of-the-line stuff without contributing anything in return.</div><div> </div><div>I'm guessing that you didn't ask/offer to secure the foods that would be needed to make your requested drinks, nor do you ever contribute anything to your guild.</div><div> </div><div>Yes, it IS a GAME to make the best variety of crafted items for the economy and your guildies, and help them have fun with their adventuring. But too many adventurers who are also Unskilled 1 or Artisan 2 or 3  think that anyone who does crafting should take on the demeanor and personna of a peasant and treat them like lords.  Crafting is being dumbed down so that t***s like this can complain that it takes too long to level and its borrrring to level , and nobody will buy their stuff, waaaaaa... </div><div> </div><div>As Popeye the Sailor might have commented, " Eye yam disgustibated".</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>NOTE to Raijinn-- Note the proper use of possessives and contractions above. </div><div> </div>

[KBern]

<div>Yeah we have a guild provisioner who makes stuff for everyone.</div><div> </div><div>I feel horrible because I know the time it takes to make the stuff so I take when she offers, but usually try to buy my own.  I will never ask for food.</div><div> </div><div>She has some people that actually give her a hard time when she cannot have stuff available as if it is her job to make people this stuff.</div><div> </div><div>Prov's are not the same as others. A guild armorer can make a suit and be good for 10ish lvls with a player.</div><div> </div><div>A prov has to make stuff for every day use.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Lutefisk]

<div></div><div><p>KBern wrote:</p><p>I have gotten a alchie to 26, a jeweler to 26, and a prov (craftsman) to 19.I just lose interest when I want to make a drink and it takes 8 sub combines to do it.lvl 60 Kerran Paladinlvl 69 Iksar Necromancer*************************************</p><p>Interesting.  And what was it about killing x00's of the same mob over and over and over that was so interesting to you?</p><p>Or was it that spamming buttons to "kill" something gives some sort of thrill that actually making something useful does not?</p><p>Not argumentative, just want to know why or how you were able to endure the same button mashing for Level 60 and 69 characters that you couldn't hack for more than a few levels craftng?</p></div><p>Message Edited by Lutefisk on <span class="date_text">03-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:40 PM</span></p>

[KBern]

<div></div><p>No good question.</p><p>I dont grind, I try to explore.</p><p>As one lvl 69.6 toon, and one lvl 60, I have one slayer of undead between the two of them.  No other slayer or kill titles which even surprises me but it shows I dont just kill one type or in one place over and over and over....I hate that and I hate camping...which may be why I dislike the present state of crafting lol (camping the table and grinding exp).</p><p>I dont kill the same mobs over and over but work on quest, try new zones, move around etc.</p><p>Dungeon crawling and questing is always changing, sitting in a room crafting does not.</p>

[Lutefisk]

<div></div><p>Thanks for the reply.  I suspect that you've still killed hundreds of the same mob in one flavor or another, just that they don't give slayer titles for killing crabs or bears or ...  At any rate, thanks for the answer.  Sounds like you're visually oriented/quick reward,  rather than big picture conceptually oriented. LOL, one of my friends who thought she would be a Master at crafting found that she prefers to wander Antonica and beyond.  Not doing quests, just wandering. She gets bored by the repetitive raid fights. So she'd like to change the game so she can get the cool armor or item without the boring tedium of waiting for 30-40 guys to finish telling each other how wonderful they are <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>It sounds like the only way crafting wouldn't be tedious for you is if you could make any item at any level any time you wanted. With the limited number of craftable items in the game, you'll have to make dozens of the same thing at least in order to gain a level -- and do the same thing over and over.  And your perception that crafting is just sitting one place is true for the physical space, but crafting is a mental process of juggling resources and needs. And it could have been a lot more.</p><p>Part of the problem is the developers haven't put 1/10 the effort into crafting that they did into adventuring. If you don't like crafting, don't do it.  But just because someone doesn't like the wasted time raiding doesn't mean that it would be more fun to just nerf it like crafting will be.</p><p> </p>

[KBern]

<div></div><p>I agree.</p><p>I never asked for a change to crafting nor expected one.  I was happy for the people that worked their butts off and are able to do some nice heritage quests now that I cannot.</p><p>Jealous...somewhat, but I am all for having quests geared towards people who are high lvl in both.</p><p>When this change came around, I think it is good for me and MAY coerce me into trying my hand at crafting again, but I can see my Adult ADD :smileywink: setting in and soon enough I will be wandering the countryside or making a new alt.</p><p> </p>

[Alku]

<span><blockquote><hr>Looker1010 wrote:<div></div>I'm saddened and disappointed that Sony took the one combine from raws approach, thereby dumbing down crafting forever.<hr></blockquote>I fail to see how going from many clicks to a few clicks is dumbing down. It was unessesary tedium.<span><blockquote><hr>Looker1010 wrote:I will no longer be a crafter, merely a button pusher...<hr></blockquote>Again, you pushed buttons before, and you push buttons now. You made items before, you make items now. Perhaps I'm overlooking the difference here but I really dont see how reducing the number of mindless clicks should change your level of accomplishment and pride.</span></span><div></div>