Lotto Change, whats the number?

[xsvhrs]

Read this in the notes today...<hr width="100%" size="2">- Group lotto now shows you the rolls you make vs. the rolls your groupmates make when distributing loot.<hr width="100%" size="2">Can someone tell me what the rolls are? is it 1-1000? 1-100? 1-6?<div></div>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><p><font color="#99ff00">I don't think it matters one bit what numbers are displayed during the lotto.   Just like with the gamblin goblin lotto and what a Dev already said:  The interface doesn't mean anything,  when it tells you you win,  you win.</font></p><p>Tootsie Disarms a Chest</p><p>Gerbenhagen Rolls a 88</p><p>Tootsie Rolls a 49</p><p>Gort Rolls a 1</p><p>Gerbenhagen Wins "Unyeilding Will Master I"</p><p> </p><p>Gerbenhagen Rolls a 95</p><p>Tootsie Rolls a 58</p><p>Gort Rolls a 1</p><p>Gerbenhagen wins "Robe of the Arch Magi"</p><p> </p><p>Gerbenhagen Rolls a 99</p><p>Tootsie Rolls a 4</p><p>Gort Rolls a 1</p><p>Gerbenhagen wins "Cobalt Cluster"</p><p> </p><p><font color="#99ff00">How about an automated round robin system instead of more text showing how bugged chest distribution is?</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">I'm sure everyone doesn't "Gamble" to see if they get a paycheck every 2 weeks in real life.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Why did they even waste the time with this? When it could have been used working on an Alternative to automated Gambling Lotto Distribution?</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">What's the big fascination with gambling with paychecks anyway?</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00"></font> </p><p> </p>

[valkyrja]

Round Robin WOULD NOT WORK, it is a flawed concept.  Lotto is the best option.<div></div>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>sparql wrote:Round Robin WOULD NOT WORK, it is a flawed concept.  Lotto is the best option.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">Lotto doesn't work.... It's flawed.  Automated Round Robin could work.  IT WORKS IN WORLD OF WARCRAFT.  </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">ARR doesn't even exist in this game yet.   </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Stop fighting the Air around you.  You can't even see it.</font></p><p> </p>

[xsvhrs]

Byz, are those the actual numbers from the game, or did you make those up.I really like this change that show what number was rolled. I'd like to know if the number being rolled is a /rand 1 100 or a /rand 1 1000 or what.<div></div>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">Stop fighting the Air around you.  You can't even see it.</font></p><p>This is the best statement ever LOL.  So many people on these boards do just that.  If they don't like the idea, then it is automatically crap.  They have no ability to look at choices as an option, just their way.</p><p>I don't particularly like the round robin idea, but that does not mean it should not be a choice.</p><p>Good luck with your idea <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote>

[Caliga]

The problem is with round robin is you'd only want to fight the named when you are next in line to get something.  So three out of the six people in group KNOW they aren't gonna get anything from the named mob they are killing.  At least with lotto everyone has a chance they might get something.<div></div>

[wushupork]

<div>At least now that the numbers are visible, there will be a means of developing irrefutable proof whether or not the system as stands is skewed. Can see if "Player A" is always rolling high, or just always the highest. I.e. always getting 90+/100 not just 9/100 and everyone else is worse, etc. Sometimes RNG blows and ya get the short end but if it's implimented proper it's the only viable way to do quick distribution of trash loot. Though it would be nice to have them add in a /split command similar to EQ1 so you can have a main looter if desired.</div><div> </div><div>What I like however, is it will show exactly who has/has not declined on the rolls.. will help point out people who may be attempting to Ninja in a P/U group with NBG policy. Will also take out the need to say "declining" in groups.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Round robin unless the server is going to calculate vendor buy back and distribute it that way is no better with luck of draw:</div><div> </div><div>Player A - L&L piece, Player B - bone, Player C - treasured weap, Player A - skin, Player B - page, Player C - Adept I, etc..</div><div> </div><div>If however the lotto system does prove to be w/out a doubt mucked up, then well they need to fix it- not force a new method.</div><div> </div><div>What they SHOULD do is make that lil group options pulldown <em>bigger</em>.. ADD Round Robin, ADD Custom (lotto all but treasured/legendary/fabled), ADD more options to give groups the flexibility to decide what method works best for them.</div><div> </div><div>I love options <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[xsvhrs]

Personally, I think round robin would suck, big time.I like the lotto system, I've just always wanted to see what I rolled. I don't see it as broke at all. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.<div></div>

[xsvhrs]

One thing I do like in Wow is the need/greed buttons. That would be cool in conjunction wiht the looto. it would also be nice to only display the need button is the character can actually use it.<div></div>

[Deadly Nightshadow]

No-one ever uses the Leader only option; it's viable as long as you're fair. If someone needs the item, you distribute it to them. Seems to be very close to what people want.<div></div>

[wushupork]

<div>Leader only certainly works, but it can be time consuming and annoying in a fast paced group distributing all the vendor fodder/L&L pieces, language bits etc.</div>

[JoarAddam]

<div>The round robin setup works in WoW because of different item qualities. </div><div>Treasured and below are round robined, but the person who is next in the chain has to be the one to loot the mob. legendary and above are lotto, and you're prompted with whether you want to be asked or not.</div><div> </div><div>Leader can set the item quality that requires rolls in the group setup.</div><div> </div><div>It's a good system, and would save a lot of clicking accept and help out with the bug where the first and last person in a group (the lead and whoever he invited last) rarely get paid.</div>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>wushupork wrote:<div>At least now that the numbers are visible, there will be a means of developing irrefutable proof ...</div><div>I love options <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">As long as there is a console in front of us,  there will always be a mystery of how the system behind the console works.  Who knows if there are a couple of hamsters or a V8 engine?   Some days it feels like this game has a couple of hamsters driving it and we don't notice a problem on the good days (V<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">"Choice" that's exactly what I'm talking about.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">If people want to enforce "Lotto" on people,  Let them.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">If I wanted to enforce "Round Robin" on people,  I should have that right too.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Heres the concept I came up ages ago,  This is a basic concept and I remember discussing additions as the thread continued for this:</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Notice... Everyone gets 2 items for every 12 items looted in a 6 party group.   No single person will get an item based on the order of the loot.</font></p><p><img width="305" src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/000/579/153.jpg" height="246"><img width="256" src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/000/579/155.jpg" height="248"></p><p><img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/000/579/199.jpg"></p><a href="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/000/579/153.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

[SniplenButterfigs]

<blockquote><hr>Byzanthei wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>wushupork wrote:<div>At least now that the numbers are visible, there will be a means of developing irrefutable proof ...</div><div>I love options <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">As long as there is a console in front of us,  there will always be a mystery of how the system behind the console works.  Who knows if there are a couple of hamsters or a V8 engine?   Some days it feels like this game has a couple of hamsters driving it and we don't notice a problem on the good days (V<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">"Choice" that's exactly what I'm talking about.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">If people want to enforce "Lotto" on people,  Let them.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">If I wanted to enforce "Round Robin" on people,  I should have that right too.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Heres the concept I came up ages ago,  This is a basic concept and I remember discussing additions as the thread continued for this:</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Notice... Everyone gets 2 items for every 12 items looted in a 6 party group.   No single person will get an item based on the order of the loot.</font></p><p><img width="305" src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/000/579/153.jpg" height="246"><img width="256" src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/000/579/155.jpg" height="248"></p><p><img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/000/579/199.jpg"></p><a href="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/000/579/153.jpg" target="_blank"></a><hr></blockquote>Hmmm, let me see if i got this right. You want to replace random lotto, with a random shuffling.  I'ts still lotto/random and not round robin.:smileyvery-happy:

[valkyrja]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Byzanthei wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>sparql wrote:Round Robin WOULD NOT WORK, it is a flawed concept.  Lotto is the best option.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">Lotto doesn't work.... It's flawed.  Automated Round Robin could work.  IT WORKS IN WORLD OF WARCRAFT.  </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">ARR doesn't even exist in this game yet.   </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Stop fighting the Air around you.  You can't even see it.</font></p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>The problem is, the round robin system could be easily exploited.  For instance, the tank only pulls good mobs (named) when it is his turn, or his friends to get the loot.  Or I could easily see groups being set up in ways that benefit them, for instance every other player invited is a friend.Lotto is perfectly fine, assuming that it is infact randomly distributing loot.  I've been in groups where I won a lot, and groups where I didn't.  It all evens out in the long run.</span></div>

[Yuglooc]

<div></div><p>An automated "round robin" (ARR) distribution of loot does have the advantage of speeding things up a bit, as no one other than the designated looter (probably a scout) need do any clicking on chests or corpses.  It also ensures an essentially equal distribution (within ±1) in terms of the <strong>quantity</strong> of items - which a lotto system <em>(except for really long adventures)</em> cannot.  Example:  120 items are dropped.  With a six-person group, each person gets exactly 20 items in a round robin.  With lotto <em>(for this argument, I'll assume it works as it should)</em>, there's a chance that one or more persons can get significantly less (or more) than 20 items.  For instance, there's a one in 36.3 (2.75%) chance that any one person will get 12 or fewer items.  There's one chance in 7½ of getting 15 or fewer items.  In other words, unless you're on a six-hour adventure, someone is likely to get shafted in a lotto.</p><p>Then there's the issue of LORE and NO TRADE items.  How would an automated round robin handle those?  If it's one's turn to receive an item, and it's LORE, do they lose out, or do they get the next item in line?</p><p>ARR can work well in pickup groups, where there's often little interest in Need Before Greed (NBG) - after all, even NO TRADE items usually have value when sold to an NPC.  Yes, it can be exploited by timing pulls such that MOBs are killed/looted in an order such that one or two people are likely to benefit disproportionately in terms of the <strong>quality</strong> of loot.</p><p>Personally, I prefer NBG, with lotto for all else.  That's the nice thing about <em>World of Warcraft's</em> Need/Greed roll option.  You don't have to wait for others to tell you they need an item - if you don't need it, select Greed.  It would be nice to have a round robin for those who have a strong preference for it in pickup groups though.</p>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>SniplenButterfigs wrote:<blockquote>Hmmm, let me see if i got this right. You want to replace random lotto, with a random shuffling.  I'ts still lotto/random and not round robin.:smileyvery-happy:<hr></blockquote></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">Guess you missed it.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">I can understand the misunderstanding based on the name of the looting method.  Maybe it shouldn't be called "Automated Round Robin" because no-one is really taking turns.  Maybe it should be called "Automated EVEN distribution"</font></p><p align="center"><strong><font size="5" color="#ffff00">Items are "Shuffled" So the tank can't pull the named on his turn and win the good stuff and abuse the system.</font></strong></p><p><font color="#99ff00">You did fail to realize the difference between the "lotto" and this system: <strong>Everyone gets an even amount of items.... Period.  </strong>With the lotto,  You are gambling on whether you get anything at all.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00"><em><strong>Question is:  Would you like to take your chances on getting anything?  Or take your chances on the value of the 2 Items you get?</strong></em></font></p><p>Message Edited by Byzanthei on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:04 AM</span></p>

[xsvhrs]

Your posts make me wish I was color blind.You do realize it rude to post in big, bold, bright lime green colors, don't you?<div></div>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>xsvhrs wrote:Your posts make me wish I was color blind.You do realize it rude to post in big, bold, bright lime green colors, don't you?<div></div><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">What would the EQ2 Forums be without rudeness?  Sometimes you need to keep making the sign bigger when people continue not to read it.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00"><em>-Question is:  Would you like to take your chances on getting anything Or take your chances on the value of the 2 Items you get?</em></font></p><p>Message Edited by Byzanthei on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:06 AM</span></p>

[SniplenButterfigs]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Byzanthei wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>xsvhrs wrote:Your posts make me wish I was color blind.You do realize it rude to post in big, bold, bright lime green colors, don't you?<div></div><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">What would the EQ2 Forums be without rudeness?  Sometimes you need to keep making the sign bigger when people continue not to read it.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00"><em>-Question is:  Would you like to take your chances on getting anything <u>Or take your chances on the value of the 2 Items you get?</u></em></font></p><p>Message Edited by Byzanthei on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:06 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I can see it already, after a few times of people getting two snake skins or some other worthless loot , a new thread with huge ugly letters demanding for a new loot system. The best thing to do is play with people that aren't greedy sons of..., and do a NBG with a lotto on the vendor trash and unneeded items. :smileyhappy:<p>Message Edited by SniplenButterfigs on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:29 PM</span></p>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>SniplenButterfigs wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Byzanthei wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>xsvhrs wrote:Your posts make me wish I was color blind.You do realize it rude to post in big, bold, bright lime green colors, don't you?<div></div><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">What would the EQ2 Forums be without rudeness?  Sometimes you need to keep making the sign bigger when people continue not to read it.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00"><em>-Question is:  Would you like to take your chances on getting anything <u>Or take your chances on the value of the 2 Items you get?</u></em></font></p><p>Message Edited by Byzanthei on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:06 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I can see it already, after a few times of people getting two snake skins or some other worthless loot , a new thread with huge ugly letters demanding for a new loot system. The best thing to do is play with people that aren't greedy sons of..., and do a NBG with a lotto on the vendor trash and unneeded items. :smileyhappy:<p>Message Edited by SniplenButterfigs on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:29 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>I disagree.  A group of 6 friends (there are friends that play together) may be more than willing to round robbin items and just hand over items back and forth if anyone in the group needs them.</p><p>Just because you don't like vanilla ice cream, doesn't mean you have to deny it for everyone else.</p><p>Again, I probably wouldn't round robbin items, but there may be people who do.  Why are people so against giving them a choice?</p><p>edited so that it would not be taken personally.</p><p>Message Edited by SkarlSpeedbump on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:35 AM</span></p>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>SkarlSpeedbump wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>A group of 6 friends (there are friends that play together) may be more than willing to round robbin items and just hand over items back and forth if anyone in the group needs them.</p><p>Just because you don't like vanilla ice cream, doesn't mean you have to deny it for everyone else.</p><p>Again, I probably wouldn't round robbin items, but there may be people who do.  Why are people so against giving them a choice?</p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">Exactly I agree.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">It's not about being greedy.  It's just the opposite; It's about Fairness. </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Sometimes someone might want the "Snake Skin" you got and they would at least have something to trade for it if loot was distributed evenly.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">NBG still applies with this system. </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Lotto promotes more bad feelings and greed from what I have seen.  Manually distributing loot is a pain.</font></p>

[SniplenButterfigs]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>SkarlSpeedbump wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>SniplenButterfigs wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Byzanthei wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>xsvhrs wrote:Your posts make me wish I was color blind.You do realize it rude to post in big, bold, bright lime green colors, don't you?<div></div><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">What would the EQ2 Forums be without rudeness?  Sometimes you need to keep making the sign bigger when people continue not to read it.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00"><em>-Question is:  Would you like to take your chances on getting anything <u>Or take your chances on the value of the 2 Items you get?</u></em></font></p><p>Message Edited by Byzanthei on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:06 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I can see it already, after a few times of people getting two snake skins or some other worthless loot , a new thread with huge ugly letters demanding for a new loot system. The best thing to do is play with people that aren't greedy sons of..., and do a NBG with a lotto on the vendor trash and unneeded items. :smileyhappy:<p>Message Edited by SniplenButterfigs on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:29 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>I disagree.  A group of 6 friends (there are friends that play together) may be more than willing to round robbin items and just hand over items back and forth if anyone in the group needs them.</p><p> <u>You can do that same exact thing with the system in place.</u></p><p>Just because you don't like vanilla ice cream, doesn't mean you have to deny it for everyone else.</p><p> <u>I never said don't do it, i said that it wasn't much of a solution. The coders already have a million things to fix, i don't think they need to be wasting time on so called solutions that really aren't significantly better.</u></p><p>Again, I probably wouldn't round robbin items, but there may be people who do.  Why are people so against giving them a choice? <u>Same reason as above.</u></p><p>edited so that it would not be taken personally.</p><p>Message Edited by SkarlSpeedbump on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:35 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Message Edited by SniplenButterfigs on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:45 PM</span></p>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>SniplenButterfigs wrote:</p><blockquote dir="ltr"><p><u>You can do that same exact thing with the system in place.</u></p></blockquote><blockquote><p> <u>I never said don't do it, i said that it wasn't much of a solution. The coders already have a million things to fix, i don't think they need to be wasting time on so called solutions that really aren't significantly better.</u></p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">I've heard all the same arguments before... "The Devs have a million other things to do... "  Maybe we should SoE decide whether something is worth doing or not.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">They fit in the dev time for modifying the existing system... How about they spend it on a system that is more fair and give others a choice?</font><font color="#99ff00"></font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">This system is signifigantly better when determining the fairness of the distribution based on number of items.  Lotto is a crap-shoot and I'm sure there is a ton of players out there that would appreicate not having to play craps.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">So,  Let me ask this again: Would you rather take your chances at getting anything at all or take your chances at the value of 2 items you get? <- Still haven't answered this.  </font></p><p> </p></blockquote>

[retro_guy]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Byzanthei wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>sparql wrote:Round Robin WOULD NOT WORK, it is a flawed concept.  Lotto is the best option.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">Lotto doesn't work.... It's flawed.  Automated Round Robin could work.  IT WORKS IN WORLD OF WARCRAFT.  </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">ARR doesn't even exist in this game yet.   </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Stop fighting the Air around you.  You can't even see it.</font></p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>I really cannon understand the issues people have with the lotto setting.I've been playing since launch and have never seen is as being broken.The numbers are random, sometimes you get loot, sometimes you get nothing, but when you average out the good days and the bads days it all comes out even.I take the same argument people use and apply it to harvest rares, there are days where I get no rares and others where I harvest 6. Harvesting rares is broken!!111 I should get 1 rare every 5 hours on the hour!!111 Wahh wahh!!!111</span></div><p>Message Edited by retro_guy on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:14 PM</span></p>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>retro_guy wrote:<div><span><blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00"></font></p><p>I really cannon understand the issues people have with the lotto setting.I've been playing since launch and have never seen is as being broken.The numbers are random, sometyimes you get loot, sometimes you get nothing, but when you average out the good days and the bads days it all comes out even.I could use the argument people use and apply it to harvest rares, there are days where I get no raes and others where I harvest 6. Harvesting rares is broken, I should get 1 rare every 5 hours on the hour!!</span></p><hr></blockquote></div></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">When you are finished working for 2 weeks,  Do you get a paycheck or do you flip a coin on whether you get a paycheck or not? </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Wouldn't it really stink if the guy who worked with you got handed your paycheck because your coin came up "Tails"?</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">How would you feel if some guy standing behind a blind flipped the coin for you said it was "Tails" stepped out from behind the blind you show you "Tails" and then handed your paycheck to someone else?</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Do you understand why people are not happy with the lotto now?</font></p>

[SniplenButterfigs]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Byzanthei wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>retro_guy wrote:<div><span><blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00"></font></p><p>I really cannon understand the issues people have with the lotto setting.I've been playing since launch and have never seen is as being broken.The numbers are random, sometyimes you get loot, sometimes you get nothing, but when you average out the good days and the bads days it all comes out even.I could use the argument people use and apply it to harvest rares, there are days where I get no raes and others where I harvest 6. Harvesting rares is broken, I should get 1 rare every 5 hours on the hour!!</span></p><hr></blockquote></div></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">When you are finished working for 2 weeks,  Do you get a paycheck or do you flip a coin on whether you get a paycheck or not? </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Wouldn't it really stink if the guy who worked with you got handed your paycheck because your coin came up "Tails"?</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">How would you feel if some guy standing behind a blind flipped the coin for you said it was "Tails" stepped out from behind the blind you show you "Tails" and then handed your paycheck to someone else?</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Do you understand why people are not happy with the lotto now?</font></p><hr></blockquote>Err, it's a game not real life, and as far as answering your question, i've never had a problem with the way it is therefore it doesn't matter to me wether it's implemented or not.  I just don't think it's significantly better, if i were in a group using it i'd have no problems with it just as i have no problems with it now.:smileyhappy:

[Byzanth]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>SniplenButterfigs wrote:<div></div><p></p><blockquote>Err, it's a game not real life, and as far as answering your question, i've never had a problem with the way it is therefore it doesn't matter to me wether it's implemented or not.  I just don't think it's significantly better, if i were in a group using it i'd have no problems with it just as i have no problems with it now.:smileyhappy:<hr></blockquote></blockquote><p><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Then we have nothing to argue about. </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">I have seen plenty of people over the last year that would be very happy with another option because the fairness of the lotto is always in question.</font></p>

[retro_guy]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Byzanthei wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr><div><span><blockquote><hr></blockquote></span></div></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">When you are finished working for 2 weeks,  Do you get a paycheck or do you flip a coin on whether you get a paycheck or not? </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Wouldn't it really stink if the guy who worked with you got handed your paycheck because your coin came up "Tails"?</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">How would you feel if some guy standing behind a blind flipped the coin for you said it was "Tails" stepped out from behind the blind you show you "Tails" and then handed your paycheck to someone else?</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Do you understand why people are not happy with the lotto now?</font></p><hr></blockquote>So this week you get no pay check and next week you get 2, in the end it all evens out.In a group playing for a couple of hours you might have 3-4 decent items, out of those saome will be NBG so they don't need to be rolled on, the other 2 might be rares or masters that noone can use so they get rolled on. All the rest is vendor trash.I still say that if you look at what you get over a decent period of time it all evens out.Ok I've just done a exercise to see how random the /rand 6 command is, here are the results:365 rolls:1 - 642 - 593 - 444 - 585 - 646 - 67Interestingly it was 2 that was lagging behind at the start, at times the totals were very close.I anticipate the more rolls you make the closer the totals will be, but I can see how in a small sample (i.e. rolling for 20-30 items over a couple of hours) the results can seem non-random. But over a few weeks of grouping everyone will end up willing close to the same number of items.</span></div>

[digitalblasphemy]

The problem with lotto has been brought up since this game went live.  Lotto doesn't use the /random function at all but it's own code.  There was a famous post several months ago from a person who did a very detailed analysis of /random proving it was bugged.  The mods/devs or whoever replied stated there wasn't a bug, only to say they had fixed "something" later on.  Many many posts have been made over the past year on how lotto seems broken as well.  From my own personal experience, some of the clearest signs things are not right have been the following.- You group with the same person over a period of weeks, months etc. and they consistantly win the rares, fabled, legendary and so on in grind groups, instances etc.  As many people have suggested in game tells and chat and so on, it's like a person's % to win in lotto is based on the number of letters in their name, a random number being assigned to them when they zone, the order which they got invited to the group, how much dps they are putting out etc. etc. etc.- A chest drops say 3 items or more, and several times one person wins all the items from the chest.  A true /random is not being applied to each item, but instead to their roll, thus they win all the items from the chest.  Statistically the same person winning all the items from the same chest over a period of time is beyond the bounds of being random.I for one am glad they will show us the numbers from peoples lotto rolls.  I'm sure then, more posts will follow on the subject of lotto not being true random.<div></div>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><div></div><p><font color="#99ff00">"It All Evens Out over time' is the most common response to anyone suggesting theres a problem.   </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Lets say there wasn't a problem...  Why should someone wait a week, 2 weeks a month or year to get their Share of items?  (This is a penalty on players that play less)</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">It just doesn't make sense to roll a "programed" dice to distribute wealth.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">There is no real life example of this.   </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Automated Even Distribution is the only way to get an even amount of items distributed.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Simple system...  and Fair.</font></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Byzanthei on <span class="date_text">03-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:36 AM</span></p>

[Croakus]

<div></div><p>There is something wrong with the system as it is now and it should be fixed/changed.     On average I win 1 in every 25-30 loot drops (in a 2-6 man group)...with higher chances on quest loot pieces like collection pages, status items or vendor stuff.  Other loot is flawed randomly based on some stupid code that gives people with higher dps the benefit. </p><p>How do I know?  Well, playing 57 lvls as a templar in groups always and it's <em><strong>always</strong></em> the same.    Never ever ever ever ever do I win something besides the quest/status/vendor items unless it's declined upon by everyone in group because it's only good for me which is RARER than Rares <em><u>used</u></em> to be.   </p>

[Dazzler_Twodir]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Croakus wrote:<div></div><p>There is something wrong with the system as it is now and it should be fixed/changed.     On average I win 1 in every 25-30 loot drops (in a 2-6 man group)...with higher chances on quest loot pieces like collection pages, status items or vendor stuff.  Other loot is flawed randomly based on some stupid code that gives people with higher dps the benefit. </p><p>How do I know?  Well, playing 57 lvls as a templar in groups always and it's <em><strong>always</strong></em> the same.    Never ever ever ever ever do I win something besides the quest/status/vendor items unless it's declined upon by everyone in group because it's only good for me which is RARER than Rares <em><u>used</u></em> to be.   </p><hr></blockquote><p>Then explain why our healer in Sanctum won 70% of what dropped?</p><p> </p><p>Lotto is really messed up now same 2-3 people win stuff hand over fist and the rest barely win anything.</p>

[retro_guy]

<span><blockquote><hr>Byzanthei wrote:<div></div><div></div><p><font color="#99ff00">"It All Evens Out over time' is the most common response to anyone suggesting theres a problem.   </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Lets say there wasn't a problem...  Why should someone wait a week, 2 weeks a month or year to get their Share of items?  (This is a penalty on players that play less)</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">It just doesn't make sense to roll a "programed" dice to distribute wealth.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">There is no real life example of this.   </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Automated Even Distribution is the only way to get an even amount of items distributed.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Simple system...  and Fair.</font></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Byzanthei on <span class="date_text">03-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:36 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Yes, but then I can expect the next set of complaints to be along the lines "everytime my turn comes up in the Round Robin all that drops is junk", "the Round Robin must be bugged, I can group for weeks and the same person always wins the Master Spell or the Rare and on my turn there's only ever vendor trash or a quest starter given to me".Wouldn't you alteast like to have a CHANCE for the rare / fabled?? I know I would.But if there is a bug in the code it can't be too hard to prove and fix.Can anyone point me to the thread where this was proven?</span><div></div>

[Cynto]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>retro_guy wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Byzanthei wrote:<div></div><div></div><p><font color="#99ff00">"It All Evens Out over time' is the most common response to anyone suggesting theres a problem.   </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Lets say there wasn't a problem...  Why should someone wait a week, 2 weeks a month or year to get their Share of items?  (This is a penalty on players that play less)</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">It just doesn't make sense to roll a "programed" dice to distribute wealth.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">There is no real life example of this.   </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Automated Even Distribution is the only way to get an even amount of items distributed.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Simple system...  and Fair.</font></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Byzanthei on <span class="date_text">03-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:36 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Yes, but then I can expect the next set of complaints to be along the lines "everytime my turn comes up in the Round Robin all that drops is junk", "the Round Robin must be bugged, I can group for weeks and the same person always wins the Master Spell or the Rare and on my turn there's only ever vendor trash or a quest starter given to me".Wouldn't you alteast like to have a CHANCE for the rare / fabled?? I know I would.But if there is a bug in the code it can't be too hard to prove and fix.Can anyone point me to the thread where this was proven?</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>You are missing his point by taking it that EVERYTHING should be round robbined out. In WoW the way it works is that on all the CRAP loot people get round robbin looting rights, and when a treasured or above item drops a lotto window pops up and everyone rolls on it. So basicly the only part of the way that the random system works now would be on the crap loot that you aren't as worried about. Everyone would still have to roll on the rare/fabled stuff. Best of both worlds and honestly, while I like lotto system, I played WoW for a bit and really liked the way this system worked. Everyone got vendor loot for money and the rare gear was still rolled on.</p><p>And in the end why are you getting so worked up about a suggestion for another way for groups to choose to distribute loot? He is not asking for it to REPLACE the lotto system, he is asking for it in ADDITION to it. You wouldn't have to use the Round Robbin system any more than you would have to do Leader distributed loot.</p>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cynto wrote:<div></div><blockquote><span><blockquote><p></span>You are missing his point by taking it that EVERYTHING should be round robbined out. In WoW the way it works is that on all the CRAP loot people get round robbin looting rights, and when a treasured or above item drops a lotto window pops up and everyone rolls on it. So basicly the only part of the way that the random system works now would be on the crap loot that you aren't as worried about. Everyone would still have to roll on the rare/fabled stuff. Best of both worlds and honestly, while I like lotto system, I played WoW for a bit and really liked the way this system worked. Everyone got vendor loot for money and the rare gear was still rolled on.</p></blockquote></blockquote><p>And in the end why are you getting so worked up about a suggestion for another way for groups to choose to distribute loot? He is not asking for it to REPLACE the lotto system, he is asking for it in ADDITION to it. You wouldn't have to use the Round Robbin system any more than you would have to do Leader distributed loot.</p><hr></blockquote><p>OMG, that is a horrible idea!  Actually I am joking heh.  I actually made a post about lotting treasured and below while no trade, fabled or legendary gear can either be lottoed or leader assigned.</p><p>Guess what, it wasn't a happy thread <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[molinaro]

<div></div><div>- A chest drops say 3 items or more, and several times one person wins all the items from the chest.  A true /random is not being applied to each item, but instead to their roll, thus they win all the items from the chest.  Statistically the same person winning all the items from the same chest over a period of time is beyond the bounds of being random.</div><div> </div><div>That's bull.  Have you done any gathering of stats on that question?  More likely what you've done is see other people make an off the wall comment like you just did and decide to add that to your body of 'evidence'.</div><div> </div><div>I made a point of checking this 'theory' by keeping track of how often multiple items in a chest all went to the same person.  Over 25 chests that had more than 1 item, I saw 4 times that they went to the same person.</div><div> </div><div>Go ahead and count up your own stats and then say something about it.  I sure don't see anything wrong with how it gets spread around.</div>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>SkarlSpeedbump wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p>OMG, that is a horrible idea!  Actually I am joking heh.  I actually made a post about lotting treasured and below while no trade, fabled or legendary gear can either be lottoed or leader assigned.</p></blockquote><p>Guess what, it wasn't a happy thread <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">I don't understand what people get so worked up about trying to defend the lotto anyway and why any other option is usally attacked so harshly.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Maybe they actually have the special "Element" to their character that lets them win the majority of the drops? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">There lots of theories on what factors "A majority" winning streak in the lotto. </font><font color="#99ff00">Heres some examples:</font></p><ul><li><font color="#99ff00">DPS</font></li><li><font color="#99ff00">Character's Name</font></li><li><font color="#99ff00">Your spot in the party list</font></li><li><font color="#99ff00">At which time you click the "Loot" button</font></li><li><font color="#99ff00">If you have "Declined" an Item or not</font></li><li><font color="#99ff00">Cheating</font></li></ul><p><font color="#99ff00">I'm sure that there are few more theories out there on why that the lotto is streaky for some folks....  </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00"><strong>The point is:</strong>  <u><strong>It's Streaky</strong> </u>and it's gambling with your paycheck.  </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">I don't see any legitimate reason for not adding automated even loot distribution.  I'm sure the "Streaky" lotto winners just want to keep winning ... thats the only reason I can think of and why they fight so hard against it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></p><p> </p>

[molinaro]

<div>Actualy, I think it's because they are sick to death of reading the stupid things people say to explain what they think is going on.</div><div> </div><div>It is ridiculous how many people mistake random for equal.   Just because you have 100 loot drops to be divided randomly among 5 people doesn't mean they get 20 each.  And yet that is what people are complaining about.  It's not suposed to be even.  It's not suposed to equal.  It's not suposed to seem fair at the end of each day for everybody in your group.</div><div> </div><div>It's suposed to be random.</div><div> </div><div>Learn what that means, then STOP [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ING ABOUT THE ACTUAL RANDOMNESS IN LOTTO while calling it 'not random'.</div>

[digitalblasphemy]

<span><blockquote><hr>molinaro wrote:<div></div><div>- A chest drops say 3 items or more, and several times one person wins all the items from the chest.  A true /random is not being applied to each item, but instead to their roll, thus they win all the items from the chest.  Statistically the same person winning all the items from the same chest over a period of time is beyond the bounds of being random.</div><div> </div><div>That's bull.  Have you done any gathering of stats on that question?  More likely what you've done is see other people make an off the wall comment like you just did and decide to add that to your body of 'evidence'.</div><div> </div><div>I made a point of checking this 'theory' by keeping track of how often multiple items in a chest all went to the same person.  Over 25 chests that had more than 1 item, I saw 4 times that they went to the same person.</div><div> </div><div>Go ahead and count up your own stats and then say something about it.  I sure don't see anything wrong with how it gets spread around.</div><hr></blockquote>Call it bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] or whatever you want to call it, but I'm talking from personal experience here.  I've been in this game long enough to know there is something odd with lotto.  I know others have experienced this as well.  Just because you have not, don't come on here and say it's bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</span>

[CacheR]

<div></div><p>Perhaps I might care more if I could ever see Templar level 35+ loot drop ....</p><p>In the last week, I have been in many pickup groups in RE, and have won the lotto on 2 Fabled items. One was a ring that gave excelent stats for fighter types, the other was a Zerker Master1 -- both times I gave the item to the player that could use it.</p><p>Felt like crying though :</p><p>1) Keep item, sell on market for $, become known as greedy loot-[Removed for Content]</p><p>2) give item away, reducing my coin gain.</p><p>Choices, choices .. I cannot believe what a 'nice guy' I am .. the ONLY 2 PIECES OF FABLED I have EVER looted -- I give away. (sukka!)</p><p>Oh, sure -- I win lots of Minotour hooves -- wanna trade? lol</p><p>/rant off</p><p>Seriously though -- I have been playing this game for a year, and as far as I can tell, Lotto is sporadic, but averages out over time.</p>

[Dreadwalk]

For the last month or two Im feeling i am one of the worst off from the lotto system.  Being doing a lot of sanctum groups and im lucky if I walk out with 4 new items out of about 50 dropped in a large session.   Im not talking about the good quality ledgendary , adepts Is that are usable as most groups are NBG.  Im talking about the looted treasure , status items, advance tradeskill books etc..Lotto seems to always benefit one or two in the group and Im yet to play a group where I feel I was one of those on a good run.Round robin would be  a great addition but only for the trash items , ie treasured or less , adept Is etc. The no-trade , ledg , fabled should all be lotto. So what I would like ,as some have also said , is a partial round robin with lotto on the better stuff. This is one huge feature of the gameplay I would love changed... more so than anything I can think of.   Cause as it stands I can make more cash solo than in groups these days and MMOs should be about encouraging groups.<div></div>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dreadwalker wrote:Round robin would be  a great addition but only for the trash items , ie treasured or less , adept Is etc. The no-trade , ledg , fabled should all be lotto. So what I would like ,as some have also said , is a partial round robin with lotto on the better stuff. <div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#99ff00">Doesn't just have to be trash items,  It can be everything, then when an item that comes up that someone Needs,  You can at least give them a piece of junk in return. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font>

[TheHidden]

honestly i cant believe SOE has this kinda system inplace for loot. its ludicrous. and to not listen to its customer base still ludicrous. peoplehave beencplmplaining since day one.Anyway. as already stated. WOW has a round robin system. based on tiers.basically you can round robin on commons. or magic items or fabled items.but you can sorta select which one you want. so say you can all true random lotto on legendary. and the lower tier stuff is roundrobin. and common drops for that matter.if you are last to join a group you get last in que. but since you still havea truly random chance at rares thats fine.i would also like to see a feature added. perahps even some kinda of check to see i fyou can use something. if you can use it you will automatically be placed ina higher then those who cant. or perhaps even an extended version. where if you have something better equipped tier wise. your made to go lower in the que.or another solution have like a forced group option where loot is spread out every 30 mins or every 60 mins. so every hour items are lottod upon by need. all gold is shared. i dunno. but really. lotto as is stands is so unfair. i mean ive jsut given up and stopped expecting to win stuff now.. i just rely on the good graces of the people a group with.last night my friend was in a group and they gota master that was for his level and class. someone else won it. why should he then have to pay them for it. i think thats a load of crap and unfair. i mean there is already such a rare chance of then actually dropping. shouldnt the one who can use it actually then havea better chance at winning it?./Mel<div></div>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>TheHidden wrote:last night my friend was in a group and they gota master that was for his level and class. someone else won it. why should he then have to pay them for it. i think thats a load of crap and unfair. i mean there is already such a rare chance of then actually dropping. shouldnt the one who can use it actually then havea better chance at winning it?./Mel<div></div><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">In a lot of cases,  the person that was unwilling to give up the one master they got, didn't have much to show for the night except one two eyes, ribcages or a rabbit dingleberry in comparison to the person that needs it and they are wanting to keep what precious item won that they did get.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Like I said before,  Lotto doesn't promote any kind of fairness, so why should it promote any kind of generosity?</font></p><p>Message Edited by Byzanthei on <span class="date_text">03-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:22 AM</span></p>

[ke'la]

<div></div><font color="#99ff00"><strong>The point is:</strong>  <u><strong>It's Streaky</strong> </u>and it's gambling with your paycheck.  </font><div></div><p></p><hr><p>This paycheck anlogy is really getting on my nerves. When your at work you are doing A single job(ie. fighting a solo encounter) granted your small single job maybe part of a larger project but your working your part ALONE meaning your SOLOING your job. If your really worried about your PAYCHECK... SOLO then your geritead to get ALL the loot.(if its really the Trash loot you care about as Trash drops with the same Frequance off solo encounters as it does on Group) There is no RL anlogy that could accually happen that would compair with Group Looting.</p><p>Maybe you and your buddies are in a forest and come across a New Car with a sign on it that says First to touch me gets to keep me, but ONLY that person can Keep or even ride in me. Now in a NBG group the car would goto the one without a car. In a round robin group it would goto who's ever turn it is(even if he already has 10cars). and in a Lotto group each person would Roll DIFFERANT Dice and the highest roll would get the car. Wich seems most fair to you?(remember you can get Trash loot just as easly soloing(and for some classes Easier))</p><p>Lastly, the notes is NOT a change in the system its just adding an Echo command to the report of the /random for each player.</p>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><blockquote><hr>ke'la wrote:<div></div><p>There is no RL anlogy that could accually happen that would compair with Group Looting.</p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">Thats where you are wrong.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">There are real life "Pirates"  They even exist today.  How about "Bank Robbers"?   </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">What do they do with the spoils?   They split them after expenses and the split ISN'T based of any Computers Random generator.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">There are people out there that are professional gamblers and thats how they make their living.  But guess what:   They are playing with REAL cards and REAL gambling equipment that puts out Real Percentages so that REAL Strategies apply....  <u>And those people <strong>want</strong> to take a risk on their livelyhood</u> for a living.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Having Only One Automated looting method is like making all the players have to choose gambling as a profession,  And it seems a lot of us are really bad at it.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">I'm tired of Gambling... I had enough of it spending 15 platinum on the stupid Gambling Goblin over the last 3 months, then watching some level 20ish dingleberry win 1200pp.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">On the "Solo" comment:   EQ2 has made it so you can't solo for the big score... Statistically you die.... Period.  So if anyone wants any kind of chance for the fat lewtz,  they have to group.... and what choices do they have for Auto Loot?  Choice #1 Lotto   Choice #2 None.   So our only choice is to pick the nuggets out of the "solo'ed" Rat carcasses then?   Gee thanks for the suggestion.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">And finally..</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Yeah... They are displaying numbers on the lotto so you can feel all good about losing now.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Good use of time... I feel so much better now.   Gee thanks.  yay...</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Oh yeah... Maybe they should figure out how to implement another option soon.  WoW has auto-RR and heard Vangaurd is going to have it too when it comes out (Watching closely).   If its true.... I'm on it.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">One year of Classes getting Crapped on and not listening to the customer base is bad bussiness.</font></p></blockquote><p>Message Edited by Byzanthei on <span class="date_text">03-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:41 AM</span></p>

[Ketinvik]

<span><blockquote><hr>Byzanthei wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><blockquote><hr>ke'la wrote:<div></div><p>There is no RL anlogy that could accually happen that would compair with Group Looting.</p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">Thats where you are wrong.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">There are real life "Pirates"  They even exist today.  How about "Bank Robbers"?   </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">What do they do with the spoils?   They split them after expenses and the split ISN'T based of any Computers Random generator.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">There are people out there that are professional gamblers and thats how they make their living.  But guess what:   They are playing with REAL cards and REAL gambling equipment that puts out Real Percentages so that REAL Strategies apply....  <u>And those people <strong>want</strong> to take a risk on their livelyhood</u> for a living.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Having Only One Automated looting method is like making all the players have to choose gambling as a profession,  And it seems a lot of us are really bad at it.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">I'm tired of Gambling... I had enough of it spending 15 platinum on the stupid Gambling Goblin over the last 3 months, then watching some level 20ish dingleberry win 1200pp.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">On the "Solo" comment:   EQ2 has made it so you can't solo for the big score... Statistically you die.... Period.  So if anyone wants any kind of chance for the fat lewtz,  they have to group.... and what choices do they have for Auto Loot?  Choice #1 Lotto   Choice #2 None.   So our only choice is to pick the nuggets out of the "solo'ed" Rat carcasses then?   Gee thanks for the suggestion.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">And finally..</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Yeah... They are displaying numbers on the lotto so you can feel all good about losing now.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Good use of time... I feel so much better now.   Gee thanks.  yay...</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Oh yeah... Maybe they should figure out how to implement another option soon.  WoW has auto-RR and heard Vangaurd is going to have it too when it comes out (Watching closely).   If its true.... I'm on it.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">One year of Classes getting Crapped on and not listening to the customer base is bad bussiness.</font></p></blockquote><p>Message Edited by Byzanthei on <span class="date_text">03-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:41 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Okay, instead of the ARSSILFOWAAWCNIGIRA System (Automated Round Shuffling of Some Items and Lottoing For Others While Allowing Anyone Who Claims to Need an Item Gets It Right Away) let's take your pirates analogy to it's logical conclusion.In EQ2, when you group, you are locked in that group until the group actually disbands.  No <b>items</b> are ever looted, just coin.  When the group disbands everyone's gear is restored to the condition it was in when they joined the group (cost of repairs removed from looted coin), quantity of consumables is restored (cost of consumables removed from looted coin) and the remainder of coin, if any, is exactly evenly split between all group members.  You may then use your looted coin to purchase whatever crafted items you choose.Now that WOULD be fun!  No, wait, not fun...what is that other 'f' word...oh, yeah, fair...just like real life is fair.</span><div></div>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr>Ketinvik wrote:<p>...<span> let's take your pirates analogy to it's logical conclusion.In EQ2, when you group, you are locked in that group until the group actually disbands.  No <b>items</b> are ever looted, just coin.  When the group disbands everyone's gear is restored to the condition it was in when they joined the group (cost of repairs removed from looted coin), quantity of consumables is restored (cost of consumables removed from looted coin) and the remainder of coin, if any, is exactly evenly split between all group members.  You may then use your looted coin to purchase whatever crafted items you choose.Now that WOULD be fun!  No, wait, not fun...what is that other 'f' word...oh, yeah, fair...just like real life is fair.</span></p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">Well... That system would be "Fair".  And so it would be an improvement over the lotto in the aspect that one person wouldn't get the complete contents of a Master Chest.  </font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Lets say there was a Master Chest and there were 6 items in it.  With the ARRsenfrackenfruggen System Each person would get an even amount of items when the que was emptied.   So there would be an extremely low possiblity of someone getting all the Master Chest items.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">What those people do with the items is completely up to them.  If they want to trade amoungst each other... So be it.  But nobody will ever end up with nothing. (in which the lotto has done to us on my occassions.)</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">So the real pirate logical conclusion is:</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">Pirate "A" Gets the Golden Goblet and Pirate "B" gets the Jeweled Sword and Pirate "C" Got the Rat Bones and final Pirate gets a spell that summons Rum... So he can go wee wee wee all the way home.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff00">If the Lotto System was used and Pirate B Rolled a 6 and took everything,  That Pirate would be Shark Food in Real Life.</font></p>

[retro_guy]

<div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>TheHidden wrote:last night my friend was in a group and they gota master that was for his level and class. someone else won it. why should he then have to pay them for it. i think thats a load of crap and unfair. i mean there is already such a rare chance of then actually dropping. shouldnt the one who can use it actually then have a better chance at winning it?./Mel<div></div><hr></blockquote>Well I hope the DEVs do look into adding a slightly more "fuzzy" way to lotto items, perhaps adding round robin for those who prefer that as an potion.I still have to admit to not seeing lotto being broken - but then again I havn't cared if it was or wasn't as I very seldom group outside of friends or guildies so as long as one of us gets the item, that's cool. If a spell or item drops that I can use I'll be given it, or we lotto between those who can use it.I have noticed that there seems to be a big problem with NBG recently, people are refusing to hand over items that another in the group can use, or winning it and saying "my alt can use it", or "I'm going to give it to my cousin's sister". It seems that people are becoming very greedy or maybe a new set of players is entering the game who don't understand that NBG is the default for groups, or atleast is for any groups I have been in since EQ2 launched.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by retro_guy on <span class="date_text">03-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:35 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by retro_guy on <span class="date_text">03-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:36 PM</span></p>

[Nainitsuj]

<div></div><div>This is how bad the loot system is for me.  About 3 weeks ago I checked to see how much loot I was actually winning.  From Nov 2005 to Feb 2006 I won a total of 34 items.  My logs had said I played roughly 6 hours a day, 4 of those hours were in combat.</div><div> </div><div>Needless to say, I stopped pusing the loot button.  It's almost pointless.</div>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Nainitsuj wrote:<div></div><div>This is how bad the loot system is for me.  About 3 weeks ago I checked to see how much loot I was actually winning.  From Nov 2005 to Feb 2006 I won a total of 34 items.  My logs had said I played roughly 6 hours a day, 4 of those hours were in combat.</div><div> </div><div>Needless to say, I stopped pusing the loot button.  It's almost pointless.</div><hr></blockquote><font color="#99ff00">I was wondering if there was actually a parcer out there that could keep track of lotto drops.   Anyone know?</font>

[Jai1]

<div></div><p>Round Robin is flawed for the simple reason of the differences between the value of items dropped.  I would never group in a round robin scenario. My luck, my turn, etheral strand. Next guy master/ledgend/Fable.  If they were able to have a complex system that took account for value as say, round robin for master/fabled/ledgendary separate from Adepts and separate for vendor trash it could work.  There would have to be mutiple tables being tracked to actually make it fair.  It wasn't fair in WoW.</p><p>I like that they are going to put the numbers.  It's always fun to see them. I liked them in WoW and it would put aside the debate on whether or not the RNG for lotto is flawed.  Unless the 1st and 6th still roll low.  I hope its based on a 1000 since that will reduce duplicate rolls.  I'm not sure how WoW decided on duplicates.  I never though it was fair because I always lost on Dups.</p>

[molinaro]

<div>Declines are not logged, so you wouldn't be able to come up with anything meaningfull.</div>

[Byzanth]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jai1 wrote:<div></div><p>Round Robin is flawed for the simple reason of the differences between the value of items dropped.  I would never group in a round robin scenario. My luck, my turn, etheral strand....</p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff00">Basic Round Robin is flawed... but at least you end up with something....   That's why I posted the AARFarfenguggen system earlier.</font> </p>