warrior AA's... You can't be serious.....

[Kyriel]

<div></div><div>Down the STA line...</div><div> </div><div>only if BUCKLER equipped.</div><div> </div><div>come on... what tank is gonna wear a BUCKLER?!?!</div><div> </div><div>then,.... caster will double attack... when a BUCKLER is equipped.... /sigh</div><div> </div><div>increase chance to block, and reposte.... if a BUCKLER is equipped...</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>please tell me this is a typo/bug?!</div><div> </div><div>then the last one... target loses 0% power when power is consumed.... 0% of targets power consumed will also be drained from targets health??</div><div>But in the description says that the skill makes you use less power and the power that you dont consume, gets turned INTO health.</div><div>Is this typo/bug? explain maybe I am drunk!??! I dunno...explain plz.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Zemfira on <span class="date_text">02-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:52 AM</span></p>

[retro_guy]

It could be worse:"If wearing a dress"<div></div>

[Tinthalas]

Gaurdian INT. line is messed up/buggy now also. When you use the haste (3nd click from the top, or 2nd click on the int line) it says "your too far away from your target" Yeah ok if I was any closer to my target we'd be swaping spit.Gaurdian AA pts are [Removed for Content]'d imo - atm. Someone seriously needs to look into all of them - preferably someone who actually plays a high level guardian and knows we dont use a buckler.Whats sad is other classes like healers get useful stuff - like 20% heal upgrades. /sigh<div></div>

[Magu]

From what I understand it's a bug.<div></div>

[Kyriel]

<div>yeah I went down the INT line cuz STA was all messed up. Always tells me no targets in range</div><div> </div>

[rSpooky]

<div></div><div></div><p>Why are you complaining about your AA?</p><p>Ask my wife about templar AA's :p</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Seems to me all classes have some odd AA's in there anyways. Im a swashy and it has some great AA's and then you keep reading and it said "when using shield" or Such and such weapon. Which ends up not being helpfull for me</p><p>Message Edited by rSpooky on <span class="date_text">12-20-2005</span><span class="time_text">09:53 AM</span></p>

[Seppy11]

<div></div>want a chuckle?  The pally Agi one is "when on a horse."

[DarkEle]

<div></div>Sounds just like some of the Wizard AA's.  Some of them are melee based.  Mages are spellcasters, not meleers.  The last thing you want your wizard to be doing is wading into battle with a weapon.

[Kyriel]

<div>I understand you can throw a few rediculous ones in there... like the below 50% health you get better critical dmg...fine... but when all along down the STAMINA line, all those skills are pointless. What tank is gonna wear a buckler? Stamina is great. Those skills are REALLY great..but why make us wear a buckler? Such a waste!</div>

[Sritt]

<div></div><p>The point is if you want the stamina abilities you use a buckler. Many of the non-mainstream lines for a class (based on the boost/rank for the stat the line is based on) include non-standard equipment. Its to break the mold of the typical beserker, etc.</p><p>Most monks use dual-wield but have lines that require no weapons or a staff equipped.</p><p>Most wizards/warlocks are spell based but a couple lines give bonuses for using a specific type of weapon (though usually not attacks themselves, they just effect the way their pet works or what type of buffs the mage has).</p><p>Achievements were meant to create more diversity within a class so yes some of the lines will be for 'non-standard' equipment to get the benefit of htat line. You can't get to the end of more than 2 lines anyway so its not a big deal, don't like what's in a line than don't go down that line. You have 5 lines to pick from and if you wanted you could use almost all you're points just on the first rank and get 8 ranks in each line's stat ability and still have 9 points left over for other things (so could max out one t3 ability, hit rank 4 in a t3, a t4, and 1 point in a t5 ability). If you maxes all 5 stat abilities you'd get a +32, +40, +48, +56, +64 in your stats, which stat varies depending on your class. If its a +4/rank that's your classes primary stat, +5 is secondary, and so on with +8 being the stat least useful for your class so the one using that line is the rare exception for the class.</p>

[med]

Requiring a "buckler" at high lvls is ridiculous; it should be changed to "sheild" to incorporate all possible shield types. I can understand some skills requiring a certain weapon, but I think they need to have another look at everyone's AP.<div></div>

[Triste-Lune]

AA are just a way to restrict player from getting any benefit... they are just time consuming to get and you can t even get any kind of benefit from them?stop kidding they are ridiculous, you are suppose to be hindered in order to get a skill to work?AA should help player to perform their job better not dwarf us. No warrior would ever use a buckler except during our 15 first level since you can t find a tower shield that fast.Lame those AA are a sad taunt to the player community.

[darasaild]

<div></div><p>im a berzerker and i think the AA's should be changed from using a buckler or an axe to use a shield, slash, pierce weapon..etc.</p><p> telling us exactly witch weapon is restrictive in my opinion.</p><p> restricting the AA's to work with a certain damage type weapon or when a shield is equiped is a trade off enough, as a zerker i dont use a shield .. i dont eaven know why its in my inventory.. but if a had some sweet AA that restricted me to using it i may put it in my hand for a bit and give the trade off a shot.</p><p> im glad that AA's are introduced to the game but i agree with alot of others who say they need some refinement.</p>

[DarkEle]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:<div></div><p>Most wizards/warlocks are spell based but a couple lines give bonuses for using a specific type of weapon (though usually not attacks themselves, they just effect the way their pet works or what type of buffs the mage has).</p><hr></blockquote>Actually we have at least two AA's that are litterally melee attacks that require us to hit the mob with a melee weapon.  And another AA that requires us to BE hit by the mob in melee.  These make no sense for a sorcerer who should be trying to avoid melee combat.  Melee combat for a mage usually means a quick death, and these AA's aren't going to stop it.</span></div>

[Kyriel]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>darasaild wrote:<div></div><p>im a berzerker and i think the AA's should be changed from using a buckler or an axe to use a shield, slash, pierce weapon..etc.</p><p> telling us exactly witch weapon is restrictive in my opinion.</p><p> restricting the AA's to work with a certain damage type weapon or when a shield is equiped is a trade off enough, as a zerker i dont use a shield .. i dont eaven know why its in my inventory.. but if a had some sweet AA that restricted me to using it i may put it in my hand for a bit and give the trade off a shot.</p><p> im glad that AA's are introduced to the game but i agree with alot of others who say they need some refinement.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Well I too,am a beserker.... and as a tank....i use a Tower sheild. NOT a buckler. I think its &^*$ing silly that I can't get these awsome skills because I dont want to lower my mitigation.</p><p>Someone mentioned that your trading your mitigation for damage for ripostes, etc etc. Why should I have to do that when I WORKED to get my AA skill point??? My opinion its just pain stupid and needs to be changed to sheild, not buckler.</p><p>As for the weapon restrictions -- thats FINE because there are hundreds of weapons out there, (as there are sheilds) BUT... as a TANK ... tanks wear tower sheilds... not bucklers. And should not be forced to wear bucklers one just for my AA skill.</p><p>I dont want to chose a differetn AA path, this stamina path is great. bucklers are just crazy.</p>

[Rijacki]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>DarkElena wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:<div></div><p>Most wizards/warlocks are spell based but a couple lines give bonuses for using a specific type of weapon (though usually not attacks themselves, they just effect the way their pet works or what type of buffs the mage has).</p><hr></blockquote>Actually we have at least two AA's that are litterally melee attacks that require us to hit the mob with a melee weapon.  And another AA that requires us to BE hit by the mob in melee.  These make no sense for a sorcerer who should be trying to avoid melee combat.  Melee combat for a mage usually means a quick death, and these AA's aren't going to stop it.</span></div><hr></blockquote>I saw the Beta screen shots and thought, "yeah, they'll change".  I saw the Live ones on my own screen and just laughed and laughed and laughed.  I think it might be, though, dev retribution for all those people who have begged for a "Battle Mage". 3 out of the 5 lines require melee in some way shape or form and that's not exagerating.  As DarkElena said, it's not that they require a specific item be equiped, that's not as inane, they actually require the wizard or warlock to hit something in melee or be hit or they affect the wizard/warlock's melee skills *laugh*. I'm not at home right now so I can't provide screen shots.Believe me, a warrior being "gimped" with a "lesser" shield is not as exceptionally stupid as the wizard/warlock AAs.  I have yet to see any AAs as stupid and contra productive as the sorcerer ones (but I will admit I haven't seen all of them yet).  Even a crusader being required to be on a horse for some is not as stupid (except if you're in a dungeon... and your horse isn't present.. though the buff is still active, wonder if that suffices).</span></div>

[Cynto]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Zemfira wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>darasaild wrote:<div></div><p>im a berzerker and i think the AA's should be changed from using a buckler or an axe to use a shield, slash, pierce weapon..etc.</p><p> telling us exactly witch weapon is restrictive in my opinion.</p><p> restricting the AA's to work with a certain damage type weapon or when a shield is equiped is a trade off enough, as a zerker i dont use a shield .. i dont eaven know why its in my inventory.. but if a had some sweet AA that restricted me to using it i may put it in my hand for a bit and give the trade off a shot.</p><p> im glad that AA's are introduced to the game but i agree with alot of others who say they need some refinement.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Well I too,am a beserker.... and as a tank....i use a Tower sheild. NOT a buckler. I think its &^*$ing silly that I can't get these awsome skills because I dont want to lower my mitigation.</p><p>Someone mentioned that your trading your mitigation for damage for ripostes, etc etc. Why should I have to do that when I WORKED to get my AA skill point??? My opinion its just pain stupid and needs to be changed to sheild, not buckler.</p><p>As for the weapon restrictions -- thats FINE because there are hundreds of weapons out there, (as there are sheilds) BUT... as a TANK ... tanks wear tower sheilds... not bucklers. And should not be forced to wear bucklers one just for my AA skill.</p><p>I dont want to chose a differetn AA path, this stamina path is great. bucklers are just crazy.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Zemfira, I can understand your annoyance/anger at the Sta line for Berserkers as I am also a Berserker and did a double take with a lot of cursing when I read through the stamina AA line. However, I quickly got used to the fact that I'll need a bucker if I want to use those skills and as such, picked a different line to put my AAs in. Why did I do this you might ask? Why am I not complaining about it? Because I remember EQ1 where beyond the SoL expansion you HAD to have specific AA's or you were [Removed for Content], not worthwhile in a raid encounter, and several expansions later much, MUCH more likely to die if you didn't have key AA skills. I would really prefer to not need 5 billion AAs racked up to be considered worthwile on a raid type encounter instead of just being good for DT bait if there was one.</p><p>SoE said from day one of the announcement that they were putting AAs in that they would NOT be required in that way. AAs are NOT supposed to be a direct ramp up in skill, thats what the extra 10 levels is for. AAs are there for FLAVOR. I'll admit that making it so that we can use a tower sheild with the Sta line wouldn't be terribly unbalancing, but it sets a precident. The first AAs in EQ1 weren't unbalancing, but as time went on the AAs with each expansion had to be better, and better, and better still, thus skewing the game and making them have to tune encounters for max AAed people. I prefer it the way it is, a flavor, some better than others, but none stand out as a "OMG if you don't have that skill your a [Removed for Content] idiot!" kind of skill line. I mean honestly, if they allowed tower sheilds to be equipped with the Sta line (not that it wouldn't be nice) how many Berserkers/Guardians do you REALLY think would bother with ANY other line? Seriously? Probably some berserkers would go for DPS, but a VAST majority of people playing these two classes would go sta, period. Thereby totally runing the point of the AAs, which is to DIFFERENTIATE us from eachother, not become a requirement for us to be useful.</p><p>So, while I understand yours and everyone elses frustration (and some of those mage AAs sound [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] IMHO), I think you need to realize that these AAs are not meant to be "class defining skills", you got 10 more levels with new abilitys for "class defining skills" with this expansion. The AAs are just there to be a "flavor of the month" kind of thing, thats why they even allow (or will allow, not sure if they're in game yet) us to talk to NPCs that will let you respec your AA lines. They give a little extra bonus, and can let you lean more in one direction or another, but they will by no means make or break your class.</p><p>Just realax and go with the flow of it, you did fine without em before they existed, and you'll be fine without the Sta line if having to equip a buckler is asking too much of you. I'm sure we will get even more interesting spells/abilities with the next expansion and its AA chains. Complaining about it here will not get the requirement changed, at least not without a massive nerf to the effects. (at least in our case, i think the mages have a real reason to be angry and might get a change). SoE has made far worse decisions in the past that they havn't backed down on, and I doubt they will in reguards to the Berserker/Guardian Sta AA line.</p><p> </p><p>Edited for grammar</p><p>Message Edited by Cynto on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:37 PM</span></p>

[Rijacki]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Cynto wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>The AAs are just there to be a "flavor of the month" kind of thing, thats why they even allow (or will allow, not sure if they're in game yet) us to talk to NPCs that will let you respec your AA lines.</p><hr></blockquote>In the mage tower in South Qeynos and the library type place in Freeport. There is a monatary cost for changing your AA lines which ramps up with the number of times you have changed it.  It's cheap to change it the first time but, for example, very expensive to change it the 10th time.  I do not know for certain if you retain all earned points when you "respec" your AA, but I would assume you do so you can immediately reallocate them were you will.</span></div>

[Cynto]

<div></div><p>Yeah, I knew there was supposed to be a fee involved, just that I hadn't looked and wasn't sure if the people had been put in as they were still in the process of implimenting them near the end of the beta test from what I heard. I would guess the fee eventually caps out like in WoW, but I can't say for sure, but with the similarities between this system and WoW's I would guess that eventually it does.</p><p>I would also assume that you get to keep all your points to respec them on the spot. I can't see them charging you a fee and then making you go earn them again, no one would pay money to have to go grind out AA points all over again unless they just totally borked their choices.</p>

[Sritt]

<div>The fee increases the first five times, then caps after that. From what I'm told the final cap though is 10plats. It starts off at like 1 silver and goes up tenfold each time to the 10 plat mark.</div><div> </div><div>As someone else has said and I've said, these aren't REQUIRED skills and you can't get them all anyway, so only take the ones you like and want. There's really no reason to pick anything past the stat buffs level anyway. Just because you want stamina doesn't mean you have to go down the stamina line, just through 8 points into the stamina buff (and for most figher classes thats +5 stamina per rank, up to 40 stamina for maxing the buff).</div><div> </div><div>As for mage abilities I'd have to double check but many of the melee attack abilities are for your pet not you. There are some that are if you get hit but are designed for your pet to absorb damage (at least on necro/conjuror lines). I think one of the lines that does involve more melee is appropriately called 'battlemage' and is for one of the stats thats of lowest importance to a mage (wizard/warlock) so most wouldn't bother getting it anyway unless they wanted a more hands-on caster type.</div>

[Triste-Lune]

AA are just stupid honnestly who will ever use a buckler when tanking?i think it s lame and just a like a taunt to players

[DarkEle]

<div></div><div></div><p>Wizards/warlocks don't have pets, unless you're talking about the new familiar added by AA's, which is really just a buff in disguise.  The melee AA's for sorcerers (sorcerers means wizards and warlocks) are for the player, not the pet.</p><p>See for yourself (scroll down to the image links for live AA's):</p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=21012&view=by_date_ascending&page=2">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=21012&view=by_date_ascending&page=2</a></p><p> </p><p>Also, check out the ones in the Wisdom line.  They require a one-handed weapon and your secondary slot to be EMPTY.  I think all of these equip requirements are just downright silly.  They don't add flavor, they add annoying weapon/item swapping and speccing based on your equipment.  You shouldn't have to choose which path you want your character to take based on what items you want to use.  This isn't interesting and isn't a good way to force choice.  Instead, each line should be equally desirable based on what the effects are, not what they require.</p><p>Message Edited by DarkElena on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:28 PM</span></p>

[Untruth]

<div></div><p>I still don't get that myself either, the way AAs are set up...</p><p>Warrior: Allows you to double attack 12% of the time per level... IF... you are equiping a buckler</p><p>Sorcerer: Allows you to double attack 8% of the time, and increases dps by 8% ... WHEN... in melee combat</p><p>Predator: Increases spell crit chance by 12.8% per level ... ... no really, i still don't get this one - It works with poison, but i'd really rather have something useful.</p><p>Swashbuckler: Allows you to double attack x% of the time and increases dps by x% per level ... IF... you are not using an offhand?</p>

[Sritt]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Untruth wrote:<div></div><p>I still don't get that myself either, the way AAs are set up...</p><p>Warrior: Allows you to double attack 12% of the time per level... IF... you are equiping a buckler</p><p><font color="#ffff00">Ups your DPS rating at a lowering of your shield factor. Also compensates if you normally use a 2hander weapon so switch to a 1hander.</font></p><p>Sorcerer: Allows you to double attack 8% of the time, and increases dps by 8% ... WHEN... in melee combat</p><p><font color="#ffff00">This is for the battlemage wanna-bes and gives you something of a chance if you run out of power. It's also on a stat line most sorcs won't use so is a 'flavor' line. if you use the stat this line is for than you're most likely a sorc who's not concerned about min/maxing or being as uber as you can be and are instead a roleplayer who likes a challenge.</font></p><p>Predator: Increases spell crit chance by 12.8% per level ... ... no really, i still don't get this one - It works with poison, but i'd really rather have something useful.</p><p><font color="#ffff00">Trying to remember which stat this is for but pretty sure it falls under the same category as the sorc melee one, something most preds don't even bother with.</font></p><p>Swashbuckler: Allows you to double attack x% of the time and increases dps by x% per level ... IF... you are not using an offhand?</p><p><font color="#ffff00">Yep, since if you choose to not dual-wield this will boost your DPS ratings up to the point that a dual-wielding swashy/brigand and maybe even higher if you put enough points into it.</font></p><hr></blockquote><font color="#ffff00">All these lines are entirely optional, you can't pick all of them, most won't use more than one or two lines at all. If you don't like a line there's 4 other lines for you to use for each class pair. The point of all the lines and their varying requirements is to encourage diversity within a class and give the roleplayers a way to make their class more distinctive without gimping the character (except in the eyes of the raider and min/maxers maybe).</font>

[DarkEle]

Sorry, but I don't buy the "they're all optional" line.  All of the lines should be appealing in different ways to different people.  If a very small percentage of players choose traits in a line, it's not a good line and should be redone.  If they don't like the abilities in the line, but are just picking them to get to the final ability, the intermediate ones should still be looked at.  There's a reason that only 4 points are required to continue in a line, but up to 8 are allowed.Yes, choice is good, but if only a couple of choices are really appealing, we're just going to end up with everyone the same again, which I thought was what these achievements were trying to get away from.<div></div>

[Rijacki]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>DarkElena wrote:Sorry, but I don't buy the "they're all optional" line.  All of the lines should be appealing in different ways to different people.  If a very small percentage of players choose traits in a line, it's not a good line and should be redone.  If they don't like the abilities in the line, but are just picking them to get to the final ability, the intermediate ones should still be looked at.  There's a reason that only 4 points are required to continue in a line, but up to 8 are allowed.Yes, choice is good, but if only a couple of choices are really appealing, we're just going to end up with everyone the same again, which I thought was what these achievements were trying to get away from.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Exactly. The stated intent was that they were trying to get away from the "required" AA of EQ1.  Let me tell you, as a ranger in EQ1, there was a definate -requirement- to get Endless Quiver and AMIII, if you didn't, you were [Removed for Content] and no one wanted you in a group (not even guildies unless they pitied you.. made it tough to get the points without being able to get the groups that you needed in order to get the points in order to be invited into groups). In EQ2, the Achievements were supposed to add flavour and give each character a different way to "customise".  With 3 out of 5 lines for sorcerer -requiring- or influencing melee, that puts most wizards and warlocks going down the remaining 2 lines.  Most groups and definately raids do not even allow sorcerers to melee.  Requiring a warlock or wizard to get hit in order to get a Achievement benefit.. well.. that could be a soloing wizard, but for soloing only.Requiring certain weapons or shields or none or even a horse to be equipped is one thing.  The MELEE connection for a pure caster is something entirely different.  If only one line of the sorcerer's Achievements was connected to melee, that wouldn't be as bad.  But, three out of five? for a casting, not melee, class?  oh right, sure.The OP is complaining about ONE line which does allow him to fight pretty much in the same way as the class definition just with a lower mitigation shield than the usual preferred.  It's not requiring him to use a combat method which is completely at odds with the class definition.I have seen no other Achievement line which is as completely gimped as the sorcerer's.</span></div>

[DarkEle]

<div></div><div></div><p>While the sorcerer melee required AA's are the worst that I have seen (though I have not looked at all classes), I actually have a problem with the whole idea of equipment based AA's.  I suspect that the devs wanted to get more equipment diversity going, but in reality, what people will probably end up doing is use the same gear they have always used and swap it out (using a macro if they're smart) when they want to use the AA's that require different gear.  So a lot of people will probably carry around some alternate sets of equipment that they use sparingly only to enable the AA's they like.</p><p>This is tedious.  It doesn't really add item diversity, it just makes using the AA's more complicated and adds unnecessary restraints.  If the devs wanted to have drawbacks to a particular AA, they should have put it directly into the ability itself.  For example, a melee one might increase damage, but decrease defense.  A caster one might increase casting speed but also increase power usage.  These are situational AA's that do add flavor and can be useful at times without causing item swapping.  Even better would be AA's that provide a very nominal passive bonus.  For example, a 2% increase to casting speed per rank, or a 2% decrease in power usage.  These are fairly minor, and yet useful.</p><p>To increase item diversity, add more items that are appealing with useful stats!  The reason everyone mostly uses the same gear is because it is the best!  Put more interesting effects on gear, such as a procs for casters other than power regeneration.  Add more items with stats that are appropriate for the armor class that it is available for.  Add more armor models that are unique and interesting.</p><p>Message Edited by DarkElena on <span class="date_text">03-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:52 AM</span></p>

[Sritt]

<div></div><p>No wizard/warlock line is ALL melee based. Here's the list:</p><p>Summon Familiar- Str (+<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, 2 handed staff AE attack, increases parry skill, damage spell critical chance increase, use health to guarantee next spell is critical- Agi (+6), dagger attack with interrupt, run speed increase, reduce casting timers, reduce casting timers (not sure why they give two abilities in same line to do same thing)- Sta (+7), damage shield if symbol equipped, increase physical mitigation, increase focus and disruption, 30 second ward that converts damage into power drain- Wis (+5), if using 1 handed weapon increase spell damage, if using 1 handed weapon get damage ward, if using symbol get spell damage increase, reduce spell power costs- Int (+4), staff attack with threat reduction, increase defense, decrease hate gain, 24 seconds of all spells that hit reduce threat</p><p>So you have only 3 abilities that are melee attacks, none that require you to take melee damage to trigger, and one line that has equipment requirements not tied to an attack. The melee attacks are useful for solo'ers but could be used in a pinch in a group, especially as they either interrupt, are an AE, or reduce threat (so if something is attacking you its in melee range, so whack it and it may decide to go back after the tank especially once you have the higher ones in that chain that lower hate gain and reduce threat by casting). The summoned familiar varies based on the type of weapon you have equipped (one of the various types used in other abilities). Notice that two of the melee attacks are on Str and Agi which are low-priority stats for most mages. The way the stats are geared is the less important ones give more of a stat boost if you choose to focus on them to compensate, but that indicates that you're trying to be a non-standard member of your class so why should you follow the standard equipment rules?</p>

[DarkEle]

Actually the damage shield in the stamina line DOES require the mage to take MELEE damage for it to work if you read the description.  It deals damage to the attacker when you're hit with a melee weapon according to the description.  And what about the one that allows the caster to Parry?  It doesn't exaclty require the player to be "hit" in combat, but it definitely requires the player to be attacked.  And since they only parry a small percentage of incoming attacks, it's likely that they will in fact be hit.You say that two of the melee attacks are on the strength and agility lines, which are low priority lines for mages.  Yet you fail to mention that the third is on the int line, which is of course the top priority for all mages.  So including the one in the stamina line I mentioned above, melee oriented AA's are actually in every line except wisdom.<div></div>

[OujiAB]

<div></div><p>Why is this thread referenced in general to warrior AA's but only addresses the STA line?</p><p>The AGI line is absolutely great.  I have no complaints whatsoever, and the last ability of the line (Auto Riposite for 12 seconds with reuse of 10 minutes) is ~incredible~.  The STR line is about what it should be, in all honesty.  Criticals and damage output with a side of taunts.  Wisdom is rather nice.  Stuns, decent mitigation upgrades, and even stance penalty removals.  INT I'm not terribly fond of, but I can see if fitting some people's cup of tea. </p><p> </p><p>The STA line?  Honestly?  It's great.  Have you ever looked at how much avoidance your shield gives?  If you have an extremely nice one for your level, it's about 10%.  Now, let's think about this.  You can have 8 max ranks in an ability, right?  I could be wrong about this, and maybe I am, so bare with me.  A rare buckler for a level 60 will give approximately a little less than half the protection I tower shield would, around 4%.  Down the line, guess what one of the abilities the STA line gives?  1% more to your block.  So, chalk 8 points up in that ability and you get ~more~ blocking potential than you had before.  Not to mention all the other nice stuff, especially the ending ability, which, in my opinion, is probably second best only to the AGI line one. </p><p> </p><p>If you have ~that~ much hatred to the STA line?  My suggestion would just be to go with another then.  STA increase is great, put a bunch of points in just that and you can get amazing results and just move onto something else.  Most of the lines, excluding INT, are exceptional in my opinion.  *shrug* There's enough choices via points to make many things worthwhile.  I'll be splitting into STA myself after I finish with my AGI line.</p><p> </p><p>The thing, I think, people need to bare in mind is these are not like AA's from EQ1.  If you weren't a raid tank with LR3, the upgrade to that in PoP, and the HP line for the same, on top of a load of others, typically, you weren't tanking.  It was as simple as that.  With these, many tanks can still be tanks in many situations and not have to worry about "Well, Soandso has this ability, so he's the raid tank".  Sure, some of the stuff is definitely suited more to raid tanks, but in all actuality, this won't change the content, nor will certain content be geared to people with certain AA's (At least I hope to god not).  They are, as it is, an option, and many people I know enjoy many branches of this line.  I really don't see what the problem is, aside from maybe the INT line.</p>

[MrMartin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>OujiAB wrote:<div></div><p> I really don't see what the problem is, aside from maybe the INT line.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Whats wrong with the INT line? I was thinking about going down that road.I have a sword so should be my cup of tea.Havent checked the ablities live but on the Guardian forum it says:</p><p>Acceleration Strike : after the next 3 CA, increase attack speed of caster by 17,6% for 1 minunte (if sword, duration : 3 min, recast : 30sec, target : grp friend)  -- CA -- 8 ranks</p><p>Double Attack : caster double attack 2,5% of attacks  -- passive spell -- 8 ranks</p><p>Parry : Increase parry of caster by 2,9  -- passive spell -- 8 ranks</p><p>Relentless Assault : reduces recast timers of caster by 5% and recovery timers by 100%  -- passive spell -- 1 rank</p><p>I really like the double attack. But not sure what it means really. Does it mean that if i use Blast, a 600+ CA i can double attack for another 600+ dmg?</p><p>An Parry is always good for a tank.</p><p>Im not gonna get the last spell, instead i will spread my AAs between the STR, STA and AGI or WIS stats.</p>

[Chog]

<div><blockquote><hr>MrMartin wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>OujiAB wrote:<div></div><p> I really don't see what the problem is, aside from maybe the INT line.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Whats wrong with the INT line? I was thinking about going down that road.I have a sword so should be my cup of tea.Havent checked the ablities live but on the Guardian forum it says:</p><hr></blockquote>The effects have changed.  Those are from Beta as the NDA was lifted.</div>

[dea]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Untruth wrote:<div></div><p>I still don't get that myself either, the way AAs are set up...</p><p>Warrior: Allows you to double attack 12% of the time per level... IF... you are equiping a buckler</p><p><font color="#ffff00">Ups your DPS rating at a lowering of your shield factor. Also compensates if you normally use a 2hander weapon so switch to a 1hander.</font></p><p>Sorcerer: Allows you to double attack 8% of the time, and increases dps by 8% ... WHEN... in melee combat</p><p><font color="#ffff00">This is for the battlemage wanna-bes and gives you something of a chance if you run out of power. It's also on a stat line most sorcs won't use so is a 'flavor' line. if you use the stat this line is for than you're most likely a sorc who's not concerned about min/maxing or being as uber as you can be and are instead a roleplayer who likes a challenge.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">Predator: Increases spell crit chance by 12.8% per level ... ... no really, i still don't get this one - It works with poison, but i'd really rather have something useful.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">Trying to remember which stat this is for but pretty sure it falls under the same category as the sorc melee one, something most preds don't even bother with.</font></p><p>Swashbuckler: Allows you to double attack x% of the time and increases dps by x% per level ... IF... you are not using an offhand?</p><p><font color="#ffff00">Yep, since if you choose to not dual-wield this will boost your DPS ratings up to the point that a dual-wielding swashy/brigand and maybe even higher if you put enough points into it.</font></p><hr></blockquote><font color="#ffff00">All these lines are entirely optional, you can't pick all of them, most won't use more than one or two lines at all. If you don't like a line there's 4 other lines for you to use for each class pair. The point of all the lines and their varying requirements is to encourage diversity within a class and give the roleplayers a way to make their class more distinctive without gimping the character (except in the eyes of the raider and min/maxers maybe).</font><hr></blockquote>The ability to increase our chance to crit on a poison hit (and any other applied spell-type proc buff) is an impressive damage adder. I'm still a bit sore about not getting any kind of double-attack when so many other classes did, but don't ignore the fact that Predators still gain significant advantage from procs.</span></div>

[onedeathon]

<div></div><p>Sorry am I wrong but are you all missing the point here ???</p><p>If you want to tank - use a big shield, get the extra blocking mitigation shield cover -- go for it in a defensive sort of way . .</p><p>But if you want to zerk - if you want to add to our counterattacks, ripostes, rampages, offensive stance extra swings then use a buckler ( and I may add stick this ability together with for example extra strength and an axe weapon - 1HS of course ) and what do you get ? ?</p><p>Options for combat are now :</p><p>I hit you</p><p> </p>

[onedeathon]

<div></div><div></div><p>Sorry am I wrong but are you all missing the point here ???</p><p>If you want to tank - use a big shield, get the extra blocking mitigation shield cover -- go for it in a defensive sort of way . .</p><p>But if you want to zerk - if you want to add to our counterattacks, ripostes, rampages, offensive stance extra swings then use a buckler ( and I may add stick this ability together with for example extra strength and an axe weapon - 1HS of course ) and what do you get ? ?</p><p>Options for combat are now :</p><p>I hit you     you take damage</p><p>I hit you     you block  I counter you take damage</p><p>I hit you    you parry   I counter you take damage</p><p>you hit me    ouch</p><p>you hit me    i block  I counter you take damage</p><p>you hit me   I riposte I - also - counter you take damage</p><p>and so on</p><p>and so on, If youre a DPS ing sort of mood as in picking on groups of greens or blues or white or yellow down hat mobs</p><p>then when you have all of our counter attack/riposte/buckler/antigroup attack modes up and running you own !!</p><p>As for me - I may just add in the strength one to pop a lot more criticals off as well.</p><p>Message Edited by onedeathonly on <span class="date_text">03-22-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:08 AM</span></p>

[Thay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zemfira wrote:<div></div><div>Down the STA line...</div><div> </div><div>only if BUCKLER equipped.</div><div> </div><div>come on... what tank is gonna wear a BUCKLER?!?!</div><div> </div><div>then,.... caster will double attack... when a BUCKLER is equipped.... /sigh</div><div> </div><div>increase chance to block, and reposte.... if a BUCKLER is equipped...</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>please tell me this is a typo/bug?!</div><div> </div><div>then the last one... target loses 0% power when power is consumed.... 0% of targets power consumed will also be drained from targets health??</div><div>But in the description says that the skill makes you use less power and the power that you dont consume, gets turned INTO health.</div><div>Is this typo/bug? explain maybe I am drunk!??! I dunno...explain plz.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Zemfira on <span class="date_text">02-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:52 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Yeah...the 85% avoidance this enables really sux cause you have to take 2 seconds to equip a buckler...:smileyvery-happy:

[ke'la]

<div></div><p>The fee increases the first five times, then caps after that. From what I'm told the final cap though is 10plats. It starts off at like 1 silver and goes up tenfold each time to the 10 plat mark.</p><p></p><hr><p><font color="#ffff00">It goes up Ten Fold every repec and yes you get to keep your points. the first one is 1s 30c but as a mage the guy does not to become over burened with copper so he drops the 30c on that first respec. Second Respec is 13s and goes up by a factor of 10 until it caps out at 13pp.</font></p><p></p><hr><p>AA are just stupid honnestly who will ever use a buckler when tanking?i think it s lame and just a like a taunt to players</p><p></p><hr><p><font color="#ffff00">First only one line of AAs require a Buckler oh and btw that line gives the Plate tank the same avoidance as a Monk(and yes I have seen a Zerker with 77% avoidance). Personally as a Monk I would love to have a Buckler to tank with(oh wait I do its a build in buckler to the class) so basicly this line turns your Zerker into a Monk that can Ware Plate but can only use 1-handed Weopons.</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">As far as a Taunt to Players I don't play on a PvP server so I am not shure HOW it works nor How Well it works, but Taunts DO work on players forcing them to change targets.</font></p><p> </p>

[ke'la]

<div></div><p>As for the weapon restrictions -- thats FINE because there are hundreds of weapons out there, (as there are sheilds) BUT... as a TANK ... tanks wear tower sheilds... not bucklers. And should not be forced to wear bucklers one just for my AA skill.</p><p></p><hr><p>I am a TANK and I don't ware a shield at all... well technicly we have a built in buckler but thats not a shield. LOOK AT YOUR AVOIDANCE this line turns you into an Avoidance tank instead of a Mit Tank, if you could ware a Tower Shield now your an Avoidance AND Mit tank meaning you will either be nerfed in other areas or will be consitered the only tank EVER.</p>

[Chog]

<div></div><p>Supposedly the avoidance bug with the Warrior Stamina line is corrected with the recent hot fix.</p><p> </p><p></p><hr><p><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Achievements ***</font></strong>- Warrior: Gladiator's Revenge now has the correct block chance.</p><hr><p> </p>

[jjm6]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>find a  thing that works...? I will also try</p><p>but I am currently managing 6 chars, and havent even tried othges much yet, got some  cool things to test but aren't I on live?</p><p>positive response...servers down..... waiting and thinking</p><p> </p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by jjm666 on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:13 PM</span></p>

[Kyriel]

<div>lol this thread still around... i dont care anymore :smileyvery-happy:</div>

[Irr]

<div></div><p>I used to use two pristine imbued ironwood staffs to duel wield.  My AA's were in the STR Executioner path.  Bind Wound (1) - Executioner STR (4) - Executioner's Wrath (4) - Crit chance (4) - Hate gain (1)</p><p>I buff up, go offensive, and press auto attack on a mob.  I don't use any combat arts, only my procs, and whatever procs come from my buffs.   My parser says my DPS was 163.42.</p><p>Now, I put all my AA's in the STA line.  I have Bind wound (1) - Gladiator Stamina (4) - Buckler's Reversal (4) - Gladiator's Finesse (4) - Gladiator's Revenge (1).</p><p>Fully buffed again with my Aegis of Scorn (Buckler) and Blade of the Bixies (1h sword), I find an identical mob of the same level.  I hit auto attack and nothing else.  Parser puts DPS at 257.62.</p><p>If you ask me, that double attack is totally worth it.  And this was before they made buckler's reversal a toggle ability.</p><p>Now take into consideration that shields only affect your avoidance.   My tower shield puts my avoidance at 40%.   That's average for a tank.   However, if I equip my buckler, my avoidance is 80%!      I'm sure it won't last, and quite frankly I dont' think it should, but I don't see why everyone is whining about this buckler stuff when clearly a buckler is (currently) a superior shield.</p>

[Hamervelder]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Seppy11 wrote:<div></div>want a chuckle?  The pally Agi one is "when on a horse."<hr></blockquote>Want a bigger chuckle?  The pally Int line requires a symbol to be equipped in the off-hand.