How am I supposed to hold aggro now?

[PlatSt]

<div>As a monk, the only chance I have to hold aggro against multiple targets is to tab to each one and get my hate proc off a few times.  A little while ago, they stop it from proc'ing of my off-hand and now this:</div><div> </div><div>- Procs will only occur on the first successful attack of a single combat art, not each attack. For example, if a single combat art strikes 5 times, the proc will only have a chance to trigger once during that art rather than 5 times.</div><div>I can't even tab to a mob, hit my multi attack and move to the next one now.  Those few extra seconds mean a heck of a lot in a battle.</div>

[infernus006]

Yeah, a lot of classes are going to get screwed over big time by this change, including mine.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[terrified kill]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>PlatStud wrote:<div>As a monk, the only chance I have to hold aggro against multiple targets is to tab to each one and get my hate proc off a few times.  A little while ago, they stop it from proc'ing of my off-hand and now this:</div><div> </div><div>- Procs will only occur on the first successful attack of a single combat art, not each attack. For example, if a single combat art strikes 5 times, the proc will only have a chance to trigger once during that art rather than 5 times.</div><div>I can't even tab to a mob, hit my multi attack and move to the next one now.  Those few extra seconds mean a heck of a lot in a battle.</div><hr></blockquote>i thougth when they mentioned the poison only procing off of main hand nerf only effected poisons and that all other procs will continue to proc off of both primary and secondary hands? could this be a bug?</span></div>

[Lornick]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>PlatStud wrote:<div>As a monk, the only chance I have to hold aggro against multiple targets is to tab to each one and get my hate proc off a few times.  A little while ago, they stop it from proc'ing of my off-hand and now this:</div><div> </div><div>- Procs will only occur on the first successful attack of a single combat art, not each attack. For example, if a single combat art strikes 5 times, the proc will only have a chance to trigger once during that art rather than 5 times.</div><div>I can't even tab to a mob, hit my multi attack and move to the next one now.  Those few extra seconds mean a heck of a lot in a battle.</div><hr></blockquote>Ok, let's be realistic here.  Your combat art with 5 hits is random at best.  If one hit misses, you lose the rest of the hits anyway and there is no guarantee that you will get a hate proc.  So your tactic of holding aggro on multiple targets is hardly ironclad.  Besides, last time I checked you still had 2 different taunts.  If you get an add, use your AE taunt and go back to the original target... or just do a couple high damage combat arts quick and switch back.  So there you go, mystery solved.  That's how a monk holds aggro on multiple targets... exactly the way you would before.

[Lornick]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>infernus006 wrote:Yeah, a lot of classes are going to get screwed over big time by this change, including mine.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><hr></blockquote>And you sir are just being silly.  Berserkers only have one combat art that hits multiple times.  Being 'screwed over big time' is being melodramatic.

[Happyfunba]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Lornick wrote:</p><p>And you sir are just being silly.  Berserkers only have one combat art that hits multiple times.  Being 'screwed over big time' is being melodramatic.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>You're clearly not counting our multi-mob attacks, of which we have three. These attacks will be effected as well, meaning our chances of seeing procs will shrink significantly when using AE attacks. As the change states, only the first hit will offer a chance to proc whereas currently we and every other AE user can depend upon the additional attacks within each set of hits to potentially proc as well.</p><p>As an example, using my Stunning Roar on a four mob encounter currently offers me four seperate opportunities to proc. Once this new change goes into effect, only the first hit generated will allow for a proc opportunity. Because really these types of abilities are no different than the sequencial attacks you're referencing. They too stem from a single attack and therefor will fall under the same change. It's the same basic principle.</p><p>So yes, Berserkers will be feeling this hit pretty badly as well.</p>

[Dasein]

<div></div><p></p><hr>As an example, using my Stunning Roar on a four mob encounter currently offers me four seperate opportunities to proc. Once this new change goes into effect, only the first hit generated will allow for a proc opportunity. Because really these types of abilities are no different than the sequencial attacks you're referencing. They too stem from a single attack and therefor will fall under the same change. It's the same basic principle.<hr>Have the devs confirmed this or are you just assuming that's the way it will function?

[MadBarman]

Lunging mongoose line of skills never proc'd the hate proc stance anyway. It only procs off autoattack.<div></div>

[Isard]

<div></div><p>I could be wrong, but I *think* what they mean is that, for example, with the ranger CA's that fire off 3 arrows at a target, each arrow had a chance to cause a proc and now only one arrow can trigger a proc, as opposed to having a chance that all three would.</p><p>The examples listed by the devs were CA's that do multipe hits on the same target with each hit having a chance to proc, creating the possibility that it could proc 5x on a single CA.  This will no longer be the case and if you get a proc on the first hit of a CA it won't have a chance to go off 4 more times.  If you execute the same CA again, you will again have the same chance to proc.  Its not a matter of 'one and done'.</p><p>So, in the case of an AE, if its ONE CA that you are executing that has the same chance to hit everything and doesn't do MULTIPLE hits to the same target, then you should see NO change in your chance to proc.</p><p>But, then again, I could be, and have been wrong before and you may very well be completely screwed.</p>

[Baeel]

Apparently some of the zerkers here don't understand their class as well as they should. Ae attack "hits" are sequential, they hit all mobs at the same time, not one after the next.  Thus this should have nothing to do with the majority of zerker damage.  The only CA I see this proportionally affecting would be frenzy, though I've never seen anything proc off the second and third hit before in my experience.<div></div>

[KagekDahung]

<div></div>They're also decreasing the chance to proc off single CA's since they are now using the CA's cast timer as the modifier instead of one's weapon delay for the chance to proc. Unless they are going back on that proposed change. If they are that would make me supremely happy.

[infernus006]

<i>"And you sir are just being silly.  Berserkers only have one combat art that hits multiple times.  Being 'screwed over big time' is being melodramatic."</i>You obviously don't understand the ramifications of this change.  They are not just changing the way procs are triggered from multi-hit DD attacks like Frenzy.  They are making it so that procs will have no chance to be triggered by other procs any longer.  So, for example, imbued weapons will no longer proc from Taunting Defense becaue technically that is a proc.<div></div>

[leafnin]

<div>CA procs are now based of CA cast time (.5, 1 sec, 1.5 etc) not the weapon delay any longer.  Autoattack procs are still based off the weapon delay. (ex. gleaming strike).   It's not just mulit hit CA's that are effected.</div><div> </div><div>Falcon</div><div>60 Ranger</div><div>Kithicor </div>

[Anlari]

<div></div><p>The proc change indeed does affect AOE attacks.  Only one of the "hits" will generate a proc oppertunity.  This effects a lot of classes, including wizards, berserkers, almost all scouts, and bruisers.  It isn't a game breaking thing for most classes, but it wqill deffinatly be an adjustment.</p><p>As for the AOE attacks being one single hit, you are mistaken.  Awhile back berserkers used to be gods because they could AOE and proc off each target and then proc off their procs.</p>

[selch]

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>PlatStud wrote:<div>As a monk, the only chance I have to hold aggro against multiple targets is to tab to each one and get my hate proc off a few times.  A little while ago, they stop it from proc'ing of my off-hand and now this:</div><div> </div><div>- Procs will only occur on the first successful attack of a single combat art, not each attack. For example, if a single combat art strikes 5 times, the proc will only have a chance to trigger once during that art rather than 5 times.</div><div>I can't even tab to a mob, hit my multi attack and move to the next one now.  Those few extra seconds mean a heck of a lot in a battle.</div><hr></blockquote>Hmm.. I'm a monk too and you sir, if only thinking you keep aggro with proc, you better learn our other abilities and our role. We are not area aggro keepers. We never been super good at that, there is Agitate Spirit / Focus Energy line of Area taunt, upgrade them. Now, you will use your Dragon stance and hit each mob one time and use our "single" area attack.</div><div> </div><div>Oh , emergency? Use "Rescue"</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class="date_text">02-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:12 AM</span></p>

[Styk]

<div>Do me a favor and test this stuff on beta or test because Berserker are Proc dependant and if it does effect our AE's, Rampage, Weapon Guard, Offense stance and Taunting Defense and Insolent Gibe lines, then there will be a big problem, I for one cant verify or deny any of this yet because i havent had a chance to test it in action....</div><div> </div><div>SO no one is right or wrong yet about the ramifications this has to either brawler or berserker classes ( thou SoE has a track record of "screwin things up" with their "fixes"</div><div> </div><div>So yeah hold your breathe on this one...</div><div> </div><div>SoE once again does the Two Step Dance ( one step foward, Two Steps back )</div>

[LiquidSky]

<div></div><p>That would be three steps</p><p> </p>

[TwistedFaith]

Stop moaning, PvP with Rangers is balanced now.Who cares if it totally screwed the ranger class in PvE and affected a multitiude of other classes, with no sign of anything being done.All that matters is that little johnny cant complain when he gets owned by the leet uber ranger in pvp.All rulesets are equal, but some rulesets are more equal than others ...

[lillin]

<div><font size="2">I am kinda curious now.  My main is a monk and here is two situations maybe some one could say still works or not.</font></div><div><font size="2"></font> </div><div><font size="2">1)  When pullin group encounters as a tank i take these steps from the start...</font></div><div><font size="2">Pull mobs</font></div><div><font size="2">AE tuant</font></div><div><font size="2">Then use AE CA while hate procs is on.</font></div><div><font size="2">Usually i will basically ae tuant twice, to a degree that is.  So will this method still work?</font></div><div><font size="2"></font> </div><div><font size="2">2) I'm used to the fact when im pulling in tanking to not even waste time waiting for mana.  So the jog between mobs will leave me enough mana for the above scenario.  Now to keep mobs mad at me through longer fights i just use auto attack and switch mobs as needed.  So will hate proc still work on auto attack?  the way the above statement is worded its sounds as if procs are only for CA's now?</font></div><div><font size="2"></font> </div><div><font size="2">Thank you in advance for any answers to these two questions.</font></div>

[MadBarman]

As a monk the taunt proc only goes off on autoattacks, it had never worked on the ae conbat art.<div></div>

[lillin]

<div></div>why they glow red then?

[badgerch]

<div></div>any ideas if this will affect necromancers consumption? its a 15 sec spell that fires everytime the pet hits. im assuming it wont be affected as theres no % chance involved...

[Code2501]

<div></div><div><hr></div><div>MadBarman:</div><div>As a monk the taunt proc only goes off on autoattacks, it had never worked on the ae conbat art.</div><div><hr></div><div> </div><div>I am positive you are wrong on that count... I have witnessed the taunt graphic fire at the same time my as my AE on a very regular basis, and that is whilst soloing with no-one around... I'm fairly sure that when I AE, with dragon stance up and see that taunt graphic fire on 3 of the 5 mobs in the group that it surely is the AE firing the proc.</div><div> </div><div>This WILL reduce the agro gain we are able to achieve to some degree, which may or may not be a big deal, depending on if your grouping with a warlock I suppose :smileywink:</div><p>Message Edited by Code2501 on <span class="date_text">02-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:27 PM</span></p>

[-Diabolic-Tom-]

<div></div><p>So if everyone is screwed then finally all the classes are balanced!</p><p>/cheer</p>

[Ezariel]

<div></div>Shrug, I did just fine holding aggro as a bruiser last night in my group.

[Stryyfe]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Lornick wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>PlatStud wrote:<div>As a monk, the only chance I have to hold aggro against multiple targets is to tab to each one and get my hate proc off a few times.  A little while ago, they stop it from proc'ing of my off-hand and now this:</div><div> </div><div>- Procs will only occur on the first successful attack of a single combat art, not each attack. For example, if a single combat art strikes 5 times, the proc will only have a chance to trigger once during that art rather than 5 times.</div><div>I can't even tab to a mob, hit my multi attack and move to the next one now.  Those few extra seconds mean a heck of a lot in a battle.</div><hr></blockquote>Ok, let's be realistic here.  Your combat art with 5 hits is random at best.  If one hit misses, you lose the rest of the hits anyway and there is no guarantee that you will get a hate proc.  So your tactic of holding aggro on multiple targets is hardly ironclad.  Besides, last time I checked you still had 2 different taunts.  If you get an add, use your AE taunt and go back to the original target... or just do a couple high damage combat arts quick and switch back.  So there you go, mystery solved.  That's how a monk holds aggro on multiple targets... exactly the way you would before.<hr></blockquote>Lornick... You must not be a monk.  He is completley correct.  Most often times it will hit and it made a huge difference in taunt.  Also... we have an area of affect attack, which also proc'd on all 3 mobs, now it will only go off once.The way a smart monk held aggro was to switch to the add, or second, or third mob in an encounter and hit their multi-attack and possibly an additional taunt onto the add... and switch back to the main fight.  This has been taken away from us, it was already a heavily adjusted strategy to hold taunt, and now it's worse.</span></div>

[Stryyfe]

<div></div>

[Stryyfe]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>MadBarman wrote:Lunging mongoose line of skills never proc'd the hate proc stance anyway. It only procs off autoattack.<div></div><hr></blockquote>You are incorrect.  It most certainly proc'd hate several times each usage, sometimes the max amount. 50% chance on each of the hits from Lunging Mongoose.Did you buy your Monk on Ebay?</span></div>

[Stryyfe]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>selch wrote:<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>PlatStud wrote:<div>As a monk, the only chance I have to hold aggro against multiple targets is to tab to each one and get my hate proc off a few times.  A little while ago, they stop it from proc'ing of my off-hand and now this:</div><div> </div><div>- Procs will only occur on the first successful attack of a single combat art, not each attack. For example, if a single combat art strikes 5 times, the proc will only have a chance to trigger once during that art rather than 5 times.</div><div>I can't even tab to a mob, hit my multi attack and move to the next one now.  Those few extra seconds mean a heck of a lot in a battle.</div><hr></blockquote>Hmm.. I'm a monk too and you sir, if only thinking you keep aggro with proc, you better learn our other abilities and our role. We are not area aggro keepers. We never been super good at that, there is Agitate Spirit / Focus Energy line of Area taunt, upgrade them. Now, you will use your Dragon stance and hit each mob one time and use our "single" area attack.</div><div> </div><div>Oh , emergency? Use "Rescue"</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class="date_text">02-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:12 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>You're missing the point... and that point is, our ability to hold taunt is reduced, there is no argument around it, and it's not fair, as our class did not deserve to be reduced in any fashion, there was nothing overpowered about us.  .... Oh...emergency? Use rescue ONCE every 30 minutes... get real and stop bashing people who are posting correct information.It is possible to be nerfed unfairly.</span></div>

[Stryyfe]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>MadBarman wrote:As a monk the taunt proc only goes off on autoattacks, it had never worked on the ae conbat art.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Wrong</span></div>

[Stryyfe]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Ezariel wrote:<div></div>Shrug, I did just fine holding aggro as a bruiser last night in my group.<hr></blockquote>Monks are more affected by taunt changes than Bruisers. You're replying to a Monk topic with Bruiser info.</span></div>

[terrified kill]

isnt the ae taunts encounter only? if so then the ae taunt wouldn't taunt the add.

[Stryyfe]

We're talking about the proc of our taunt stance, not an AE casted taunt.<div></div>

[terrified kill]

was talking about a previous post i was using my psp to post it so i couldnt quote the posters post<div></div>

[terrified kill]

<div><span>this was what i was referring to about the taunts<blockquote><hr>Lornick wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>PlatStud wrote:<div>As a monk, the only chance I have to hold aggro against multiple targets is to tab to each one and get my hate proc off a few times.  A little while ago, they stop it from proc'ing of my off-hand and now this:</div><div> </div><div>- Procs will only occur on the first successful attack of a single combat art, not each attack. For example, if a single combat art strikes 5 times, the proc will only have a chance to trigger once during that art rather than 5 times.</div><div>I can't even tab to a mob, hit my multi attack and move to the next one now.  Those few extra seconds mean a heck of a lot in a battle.</div><hr></blockquote>Ok, let's be realistic here.  Your combat art with 5 hits is random at best.  If one hit misses, you lose the rest of the hits anyway and there is no guarantee that you will get a hate proc.  So your tactic of holding aggro on multiple targets is hardly ironclad.  Besides, last time I checked you still had 2 different taunts.  If you get an add, use your AE taunt and go back to the original target... or just do a couple high damage combat arts quick and switch back.  So there you go, mystery solved.  That's how a monk holds aggro on multiple targets... exactly the way you would before.<hr></blockquote></span></div>