A plea from the ranger community. (Repost)

[jagermiester]

<DIV>I for one have been around the boards but never posted. I prefer to play the game and discuss in game issues in server channels and with friends. I throughly enjoy playing this game. I played eq1 for a long time. I love the lore and love the connections to a game 500 years in the past . This impending <STRONG>class destroying nerf</STRONG> has me bitter and angry though. I played eq1 i was the but of many sacrifical ranger jokes. I was a pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good ranger all things considered too. But i was still that a ranger a broken class that never was truely fixed. <DIV>  When i started Eq2 i was never going to play a ranger. I rolled a guardian i rolled a templar i rolled an assasin. Then i rolled a ranger. Right from level 20 when i got my <STRONG>RANGER</STRONG> title i was proud. The class was everything that the eq1 ranger was lacking. I was a <STRONG>DEADLY</STRONG> ranged killer. I loved it. My job was dps and i quested for items to maximize this effect. I learned how to time my cas to not draw aggro ( too much) cause we all know if that x 4 epic mob thinks that you shouldnt hit it so hard the next thing you are doing is /t templar "Rez please".</DIV> <DIV>   Now all things considered yes we are powerful dps dealers. We pay for this right. Over a plat a night on T6 legendary poision and armor repair. Sometime i need a off night to go farm with a healer and a tank just to get the loot to continue to play the way i play. Do any other classes (that arent crafters obviously)have to take a day just to farm for plat so you can continue to be usefull to groups and your guild? If we are so far out of wack then why dont you bring our bow delay down? Mabey bring the other t1 dps classes up a little bit. A sweeping change like this is not the answer. This game is almost 2 years old now there is no reason to <STRONG>destroy</STRONG> the current game mechanics.</DIV> <DIV>     Please join me in saving our rangers. I know you all have a ranger friend that you turn too when the mob is beating on you and say...help please kill this. The ranger does even though we are probally dying as our last arrow is flying. We want class balence not widespread nerfing. We pay for our extra dps every hit we proc a poision.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you if you took the time to read this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>Edit: Already plenty of threads on this topic, and plenty of opinions have been expressed. Please keep posts in existing topics.</FONT></STRONG></DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Moorgard on <span class=date_text>02-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:55 AM</span>

[Magu]

So what if you have to share the #1 DPS spot now?Yay for Sony fixing you.<div></div>

[jagermiester]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:So what if you have to share the #1 DPS spot now?Yay for Sony fixing you.<div></div><hr></blockquote>From what ive looked at and the ranger community at large has presented we will not be T1 dps. We will be T2 at best with 0 utility. Please Refrain from your subtle yet not needed distain for a class that is close to being toasted. This was a thought out response explaining our position (well atleast mine) on the changes impending in LU 20. Please say something constructive if you are just going to pop off with no background information.<p>Message Edited by jagermiester on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:05 AM</span></p>

[Magu]

No, you won't be T2, you'll be T1 right where you belong, instead of being far past it.Even IF this change drops you below T1, they will NOT leave you there. Read the dev posts already.<div></div>

[jagermiester]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:No, you won't be T2, you'll be T1 right where you belong, instead of being far past it.Even IF this change drops you below T1, they will NOT leave you there. Read the dev posts already.<div></div><hr></blockquote>We as it stands in beta are not teir 1 dps we are teir 3. And as far as the devs fixing us after we have been smashed to pieces with the Nerfhammer (tm) i would like to know how long do you think its going to take them? I am going on SoEs track record of NOT fixing what they break till it is almost a non issue anymore. I have read the dev posts and ive also read all the posts and talked to people on the beta server. Seeing these changes first hand and getting feedback from them. We should be T1 dps without poisions. Poisions cost hard earned plat therefore they should be bonus. Im sure wizzys woud think twice about mashing cas if they had to worry about a huge cost for that dps. Am i wrong in this assumption. Every post you make is negative and i am trying to look at this from an objective view. You seem content to cheer for a vital class in the game being torn a new one by ill advised and widespread game altering.

[Magu]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>jagermiester wrote:<div></div>We as it stands in beta are not teir 1 dps we are teir 3<hr></blockquote>Prove it.<span><blockquote><hr>jagermiester wrote:<div></div>We should be T1 dps without poisions. Poisions cost hard earned plat therefore they should be bonus.<hr></blockquote>No, you shouldn't. You WILLINGLY chose a class that has to pay for damage. You can't whine about it later.<span><blockquote><hr>jagermiester wrote:<div></div>You seem content to cheer for a vital class in the game being torn a new one by ill advised and widespread game altering.<hr></blockquote></span>No, I cheer for equalizing overpowered classes. You were FAR beyond Tier1 DPS. You can not deny that.They are bringing you down a bit. If they drop things too far, they'll adjust back. Maybe you haven't adjusted your play style slightly. As I quickly saw in the Ranger forum, many are already suggesting switching to high DoT poisons instead of high DD poisons, since you won't be procing far too much.Try that as a start before you go whining about some uber nerf that isn't as bad as you think it is.</span></span></div>

[jagermiester]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:<span><div></div><blockquote><hr>jagermiester wrote:<div></div>We as it stands in beta are not teir 1 dps we are teir 3<hr></blockquote><div>Prove it.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div><strong>Well here goes. Look at any parse from beta any one. Im sure you have read them all on the ranger boards seeing you are all over them. They are parsing a 40-45% drop in dps. Thats insane. We are on par with the t3 dps dealers.</strong></div><div><span> </div><blockquote><hr>jagermiester wrote:<div></div>We should be T1 dps without poisions. Poisions cost hard earned plat therefore they should be bonus.<hr></blockquote><div>No, you shouldn't. You WILLINGLY chose a class that has to pay for damage. You can't whine about it later.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div><strong>This also is a exageration. There are many poisions to choose from some are cheap some are not. When you choose to spend the extra plat on the primo poisions you should be rewarded with primo dps. Above and beyond what is considered "normal"</strong><span></div><blockquote><hr>jagermiester wrote:<div></div>You seem content to cheer for a vital class in the game being torn a new one by ill advised and widespread game altering.<hr></blockquote><div></span>No, I cheer for equalizing overpowered classes. You were FAR beyond Tier1 DPS. You can not deny that.They are bringing you down a bit. If they drop things too far, they'll adjust back. Maybe you haven't adjusted your play style slightly. As I quickly saw in the Ranger forum, many are already suggesting switching to high DoT poisons instead of high DD poisons, since you won't be procing far too much.Try that as a start before you go whining about some uber nerf that isn't as bad as you think it is.</div><div> </div><div><strong>We were overpowered due to the fact we were procing from melee weapons...shields..chestplates...bows poisions and ect. They nerfed those. Our dps had come down significantly. This is over and above a small "adjustment".</strong></div><div> </div><div><strong>If you had played a certain way for months then had some one come in ad change your entire stat. (Again)</strong></div><div><strong>Im sure you would have a few things to say about it also.</strong></div><strong></strong></span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span><span><strong>I think you just are one of those people who cannot stand to see another class excell at what its spose to do... Damage.</strong><div></span></div></span><hr></blockquote>

[Kizee]

<div>The rangers that are complaining about this FIX really need to step back and look at the damage they were doing.</div><div> </div><div>Welcome back down to earth....where the rest of the T1 damage dealers are.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Magu]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>jagermiester wrote:<blockquote><span><div><strong>We were overpowered due to the fact we were procing from melee weapons...shields..chestplates...bows poisions and ect. They nerfed those. Our dps had come down significantly. This is over and above a small "adjustment"</strong></div></span></blockquote><hr></blockquote>Bows will still proc shields/chestplates/etc. Just not your melee weapons. Minor fix.</span></div>

[LlewCadey]

last i checked rangers actually got armour, go talk to wizards and warlocks about how rangers out DPS themsorcerers are the glass cannons of the game, the T1 DPS, if a ranger wants to match them, they should run arround naked and hope they dont get hit by a stray AOE in a raid, cus thats gonna leave you... well DEAD?!im glad they are FIXING rangers, after the "Fixed" warlocks and wizards in LU13, there is no balance at all between the classes, where a ranger can run about, hit enemies at range, not worry about AOEs stuns etc, casters need to stand still to fire, fret about when the AOE is about to tic, and pray the healers are paying attention.T1 is for warlocks and wizardsT2 is for the more protected rangersif you want your old ranger back, setup a bootleg server, dont patch past LU20 and live in a world alone<div></div>

[jagermiester]

<div>T1 Dps is not the issue here. It is dropping far below this. Rangers should be at the top of the dps tree. It is what we do. We dps. Nothing else. All other classes bring a utility to the group. We bring dps. To not only drop us down but to drop us below other Teir 1 dps is just plain [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</div>

[jagermiester]

<div>And i love how all you other people are cheering when a class it on its way to being trivialized. Wouldnt you like the fact that a pure damage dealer might make a raid go a little smoother? I think you are leaving a black eye on your classes in general with this yay for nerfs. Sweeping changes to game mechanice do not help anything they drive customers away and upset those who are still here.</div>

[Kaiser Sigma]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>jagermiester wrote:<div>All other classes bring a utility to the group. We bring dps. To not only drop us down but to drop us below other Teir 1 dps is just plain [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</div><hr></blockquote><p>Enlighten me since I must have missed details about my class. What utility do Assassins bring to raids? If you say agro transfer and apply poison we will just have to dismiss all your rant though.</p><p>You are now t2-t1 dps. Welcome to the world of Predators. Us assassins have been there since forever and we still wait for fixes.</p>

[LlewCadey]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>jagermiester wrote:<div>T1 Dps is not the issue here. It is dropping far below this. Rangers should be at the top of the dps tree. It is what we do. We dps. Nothing else. All other classes bring a utility to the group. We bring dps. To not only drop us down but to drop us below other Teir 1 dps is just plain [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</div><hr></blockquote>obviously you didnt read a thing i said, Rangers currently get top DPS with very little risk compared to warlocks and wizards, even if they shared t1 with them it would be unfair, rangers at least get SOME utility (escape disarm track stuns) wheras last i checked sorcerers get none (ok mabe a stiffle and short stun) add to that casters must be stationary to use abilities wheras CA's can be used on the move, casters wear armour you can poke a stick at and kill them, rangers get nice protective suits of mail, casters have an avoidance of about 10-20% rangers 30-45%now tell me after all that how is it fair a ranger should still share numer one spot with casters?!!?!!?!?!?maybe if SOE made it so u could only wear leather armour, oh but wait even if they just did that and left your procs as is you would cry nerf!</span></div>

[jagermiester]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>LlewCadeyrn wrote:last i checked rangers actually got armour, go talk to wizards and warlocks about how rangers out DPS them</p><p><strong>We are all T1 dps. Sorry that a well geared well played ranger out dps you. Mabey you should invest in some better gear? Dont cloth armor get insane FT.  Ft for a caster seems pretty fair to me.</strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong></strong>sorcerers are the glass cannons of the game, the T1 DPS, if a ranger wants to match them, they should run arround naked and hope they dont get hit by a stray AOE in a raid, cus thats gonna leave you... well DEAD?!</p><p><strong>staying out of range of the aoes is what RANGE does. If you want to sit in the fight why did you pick a class that cant handle the aoes? Mabey you need better resist gear?</strong>im glad they are FIXING rangers, after the "Fixed" warlocks and wizards in LU13, there is no balance at all between the classes, where a ranger can run about, hit enemies at range, not worry about AOEs stuns etc, casters need to stand still to fire, fret about when the AOE is about to tic, and pray the healers are paying attention.T1 is for warlocks and wizardsT2 is for the more protected rangers</p><p><strong>T1 should be for the classes that do 1 thing DPS. And that is the rangers soul purpose.</strong>if you want your old ranger back, setup a bootleg server, dont patch past LU20 and live in a world alone</p><p><strong>Comments like this make me laugh. You are contributing nothing to the conversation. Just adding fuel to the fire. </strong></p><div></div><hr></blockquote>

[Kaiser Sigma]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>LlewCadeyrn wrote:<span><div>obviously you didnt read a thing i said, Rangers currently get top DPS with very little risk compared to warlocks and wizards, even if they shared t1 with them it would be unfair.</span></div><div><hr></div></blockquote>So according to that concept Assassins and Rogues have to be Tier S dps (above t1) since we are the ones who risk their necks the most. I would like to see a caster jousting. =D

[jagermiester]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>LlewCadeyrn wrote:<span><div></div><blockquote><hr>jagermiester wrote:<div>T1 Dps is not the issue here. It is dropping far below this. Rangers should be at the top of the dps tree. It is what we do. We dps. Nothing else. All other classes bring a utility to the group. We bring dps. To not only drop us down but to drop us below other Teir 1 dps is just plain [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</div><hr></blockquote><div>obviously you didnt read a thing i said, Rangers currently get top DPS with very little risk compared to warlocks and wizards, even if they shared t1 with them it would be unfair, rangers at least get SOME utility (escape disarm track stuns)</div><div> </div><div><strong>What raid situation does this count in? We have one stun. Sorcers can silence mobs...stun ....root...</strong></div><div> </div><div> wheras last i checked sorcerers get none (ok mabe a stiffle and short stun) add to that casters must be stationary to use abilities wheras CA's can be used on the move</div><div> </div><div><strong>Rangers have 2 count em 2 cas that can be used on the run..Storm of arrows and dehibilitating arrow</strong></div><div><strong>the rest must be cast stationary and have a minimum range. Do your nukes have a min range?</strong></div><div><strong>Plus there is stream of arrows That A) stifles us and roots us B) also has a minimum range.</strong></div><div><strong></strong> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>, casters wear armour you can poke a stick at and kill them, rangers get nice protective suits of mail, casters have an avoidance of about 10-20% rangers 30-45%</div><div> </div><div><strong>rangers have this avoidance due to their high AGI that ties in to their power pool. when i go offensive i have mabey 25% avoidance.</strong>now tell me after all that how is it fair a ranger should still share numer one spot with casters?!!?!!?!?!?maybe if SOE made it so u could only wear leather armour, oh but wait even if they just did that and left your procs as is you would cry nerf!</div><div> </div><div> </div></span><hr></blockquote>

[jagermiester]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kaiser Sigma wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>jagermiester wrote:<div>All other classes bring a utility to the group. We bring dps. To not only drop us down but to drop us below other Teir 1 dps is just plain [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</div><hr></blockquote><p>Enlighten me since I must have missed details about my class. What utility do Assassins bring to raids? If you say agro transfer and apply poison we will just have to dismiss all your rant though.</p><p>You are now t2-t1 dps. Welcome to the world of Predators. Us assassins have been there since forever and we still wait for fixes.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I think assasins need to be brought up a little bit.  As far as utility you have several spells that are incredible in close combat .</p><p>Paralyzing Strike , Anathema , Deadfall, Murderous Design, Crippling Strike,Freezing Strike are just some.</p><p>Assasins also have the potential to do MASSIVE amounts of burst damage.</p>

[Kaiser Sigma]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>jagermiester wrote:<div></div><p>Paralyzing Strike , Anathema , Deadfall, Murderous Design, Crippling Strike,Freezing Strike are just some.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote>Oh man... Freezing Strike (t6 version of Paralyzing Strike) does not affect epics. Murderous design is not raid wide so it's as good as nothing. The others are low debuffs that don't make or break a raid, it's not utility and personally I don't want utility either. Just my long awaited spot as t1 dps.

[jagermiester]

<div>I agree assasins need some love. Although you are unmatched in burst damage.</div>

[Kaiser Sigma]

<div></div>I'm not looking for class support. Just trying to make you guys aware that you aren't the only gimped class, just drop the drama. If the "fixes" are bad the numerous complaints will make SOE retrace some of their steps until then stow it and play with what you have.

[Saihung23]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kaiser Sigma wrote:<div></div>I'm not looking for class support. Just trying to make you guys aware that you aren't the only gimped class, just drop the drama. <font color="#ff00ff">If the "fixes" are bad the numerous complaints will make SOE retrace some of their steps until then stow it and play with what you have.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Oh, yeah...SOE will <quote> retrace some of their steps.  All we have to do is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] like wizards invade other classes forums to further our own self interests and attack any other class that out DPS's us.  Then sometime next year, SOE will finally retrace their steps back to launch because they never finished the game when they released it.  That is what the problem is...SOE half-[Removed for Content] everything and then acts self righteous when called on their ineptitude.</p><p>In beta it is obvious that the changes go too far.  Rangers are nerfed to tier 3 DPS.  I personally would not care about this if SOE didnt state in a post (blackguard I believe, that Rangers/Warlocks/Wizards/Assassins are T1 DPS.  Why the hell would you even say this if you are SOE?  I mean dont they know by now that they cant deliver on ANY of their promises or models of what the game should be like? </p><p>The people who want to now criticize this class for being upset are wearing blinders to the fact that SOE is incompetent.  I am not blind to that...I didnt buy that PoS Kingdom of Sky and I am glad.  I work my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] off 6 days a week and, fortunately, have not paid to play this game in some time (thanks to gift cards).  It will be even longer before I pay to play this game again.  I was already fed up with SOE concerning other issues with my accounts.  I didnt preorder KoS because of those issues.  And the idiocy and backtracking that SOE does only serves to make me lean more towards not renewing my sub.'s.</p><p>They went to far...and they should have a fix already lined up for LU20c or just not let the changes hit Live without some type of fix in place for the way they intend to break the ranger class.</p><p>No pie for me <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Tomanak]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>jagermiester wrote:<div></div><blockquote><span><div> </div><div><strong>What raid situation does this count in? We have one stun. Sorcers can silence mobs...stun ....root...</strong></div><div> </div></span><hr></blockquote><hr></blockquote><p>If you are referring to raids, none of these 'utilities' effect epic mobs. Apparently you are as ignorant about the skill sets of others as you claim they are of yours.</p>

[DarkLegacy2005]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Saihung23 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kaiser Sigma wrote:<div></div>I'm not looking for class support. Just trying to make you guys aware that you aren't the only gimped class, just drop the drama. <font color="#ff00ff">If the "fixes" are bad the numerous complaints will make SOE retrace some of their steps until then stow it and play with what you have.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Oh, yeah...SOE will retrace some of their steps.  All we have to do is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] like wizards invade other classes forums to further our own self interests and attack any other class that out DPS's us.  <font color="#ffff00">Then sometime next year, SOE will finally retrace their steps back to launch because they never finished the game when they released it.  That is what the problem is...SOE half-[Removed for Content] everything and then acts self righteous when called on their ineptitude.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">SOE has far from 'half-[Removed for Content]' it and has finished the game, but updates are a part of a living thriving MMORPG. If you want to see an unfinished product, go buy Dungeon Lords. One hour of that game will make you be thankful for the Dev's we have.</font></p><hr></blockquote>

[Magus_Bl]

<div></div><p>Get off the finger-pointing already.  It's not wizards or anyone elses fault.  If anyone deserves blame here, it's SOE.</p><p>They've tricked everyone into thinking balance is important.  Really, in a PvE world, balance is not important.  The only balance that matters is player vs. environment balance.  They make things 10 times harder on themselves by adjusting both (player and environment) when in sooth only one needs to be adjusted to maintain balance.</p><p>Any old-school D&D players out there?  I know it's not the same... but... what are they up to after 20+ years of an RPG?  Version 4? (Edition 3.5 or something like that)</p><p>The Dungeon Master (usually someone about 13 years old with bad acne) would create an environment that was challenging, yet not impossible.  He would create an environment to challenge the player, and not come out to the wizard and say things like "Oh by the way you can't use fireball anymore...".</p><p>You knew when you rolled a character in that game exactly what your character would be like and could envision what he would grow into.  It's a shame the same isn't even remotely possible in this game.</p><p> </p>

[DarkLegacy2005]

<div></div><p>The difference with D&D and EQ2 is that in D&D you need a GM to micromanage the players and make sure they dont get overpowered... you have a dumb GM that gives out the God's Uber Sword of smiting to all the level 1 players and you have a broken game. Where as EQ2 is made with the mindset of the players are left to their own devices and the developers try to make the world cater to everyone( a group quite larger then your average D&D group of 6).</p><p>To make it short, comparing D&D to EQ2 is like comparing model cars to skyscrapers... they are far from similiar.</p>

[Magus_Bl]

<div></div><p>And making combat revamps every expansion and combat changes every live update isnt micromanagement?</p><p>Ok I wasn't trying to say they are the same.  MMORPGs are far too complex to leave them to the omnipotency of a 20 sided die.  That's not quite the point I was trying to make.  But whatever. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[DarkLegacy2005]

<div></div>yes but my point is they cant control the EQ2 environment in the same manner a GM controls a D&D environment. They have far too many things going on not to make a mistake here and there.

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>DarkLegacy2005 wrote:<div></div>yes but my point is they cant control the EQ2 environment in the same manner a GM controls a D&D environment. They have far too many things going on not to make a mistake here and there.<hr></blockquote><p>Plus you throw in the mix of software coding and changes don't always work like intended.  Software industry calls this "undocumented features".  I have no doubt the job of the deveolopers is a tough one, but it almost seems reckless in my opinion to make changes to the upcoming update and LU13 without vigirous testing with feedback.</p><p>I don't believe the game is tested nearly enough before software goes live in eq2.</p>

[infernus006]

I just want to point out that this change to procs that's going into effect to "punish" Rangers for doing too much DPS will effect every class that uses on procs at all in a negative way, especially tanks that rely on them to keep aggro.  I don't think that's fair at all.<div></div>