Some Balance Changes In Testing

[Blackguard]

<div></div>Balance testing new content ranges is always very revealing. When you take things up a tier, problems in the existing systems end up being magnified and rapidly come to the forefront. The Kingdom of Sky beta is no exception--over the course of KoS beta testing, a few issues came to the surface that we felt were important to address. First off, while creating the next series of imbued items, we noticed a problem with near-infinitely stackable stat buffs from imbued rings. We couldn't continue along with this progression, and decided that it was necessary to change the way imbued rings work. Imbued rings have been modified to be more focused on a single imbued stat. The benefits will also improve depending on the quality level of a crafted item, so you'll see the greatest stat benefit from pristine imbued rings. Additionally, we've made the stat enhancements for imbued rings have a chance to trigger on different events during combat: strength rings can trigger on successful melee attacks; agility rings can trigger on combat art usage; stamina rings can trigger on taking damage; wisdom rings can trigger when beneficial spells are cast; intelligence rings can trigger when offensive spells land. We also discovered some problems with the way procs trigger. As it stands on Live today, the longer the delay of your weapon, the more likely a proc will trigger. Sounds logical, of course, but we noticed one glaring issue: It also affects combat arts. No matter the speed of your weapon, you're able to fire off combat arts just as fast as the next character. Procs would trigger on these combat arts, and with slower weapons, they fire off significantly more often than with faster weapons. This is changing. We couldn't continue with procs working in this manner and make combat that was challenging enough for those who could take advantage of it without making creatures that were far too strong for the vast majority of classes. And finally, we've made a few changes to Brigands that some of you have already seen and provided feedback on. Before the change to Amazing Reflexes, this art could be used to grant permanent indirect AoE immunity. This had the effect of Brigands not needing to acquire diverse gear for resists and health because nothing touched them as long as they did not acquire aggro. This wasn't a matter of player skill so much as it was relying on a single extremely powerful ability. As of LU20, Amazing Reflexes will break for a short duration if the Brigand takes damage, so you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs. You can still avoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so, but Amazing Reflexes is no longer a get-out-of-jail-free card. Keep in mind that the way these changes function when they all make it to Live may be different than described here, and could even be adjusted further thereafter. However, I thought it would be a good idea to discuss what we're doing and why so you know we aren't just "nerfing" things for the fun of it. There's always a reason, and we think this will make the game more fun for everyone, especially in the long term. As always, your feedback is welcome, so feel free to provide it in a constructive manner here.<div></div>

[Melfius]

<div></div><strong><u>T E M P L A R S</u></strong> - please?

[Tomanak]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div>The benefits will also improve depending on the quality level of a crafted item, so you'll see the greatest stat benefit from pristine imbued rings.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Prior to this LU an item HAD to be pristine in order to be imbued. Does this intimate that this is changing and any crafted item can be imbued regardless of quality?

[Moorgard]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tomanak wrote:<BR> <BR>Prior to this LU an item HAD to be pristine in order to be imbued. Does this intimate that this is changing and any crafted item can be imbued regardless of quality?<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No. The line in BG's post means that the non-imbued stat rings get better as they increase in quality level. The biggest benefit comes from the pristine imbued rings, but those aren't the only ones changing in LU20.

[Robert2005]

<div></div><div></div>aw crud; I read this with the dashed hope of priest balance too.edit:   c'mon Moor; I see ya' here... throw us a bone...(60 Templar)<p>Message Edited by Robert2005 on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:09 AM</span></p>

[Tomanak]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tomanak wrote:<div></div>Prior to this LU an item HAD to be pristine in order to be imbued. Does this intimate that this is changing and any crafted item can be imbued regardless of quality?<hr></blockquote>No. The line in BG's post means that the non-imbued stat rings get better as they increase in quality level. The biggest benefit comes from the pristine imbued rings, but those aren't the only ones changing in LU20.<hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>Ok, so will imbuing an item provide different stats from a non imbued item? Ie a pristine Imbued ring will have better stats than a non imbued pristine ring.</p>

[Jgok]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tomanak wrote:<div></div>Prior to this LU an item HAD to be pristine in order to be imbued. Does this intimate that this is changing and any crafted item can be imbued regardless of quality?<hr></blockquote>No. The line in BG's post means that the non-imbued stat rings get better as they increase in quality level. The biggest benefit comes from the pristine imbued rings, but those aren't the only ones changing in LU20.<hr></blockquote>Additionally, an item must be pristine to be imbued, but the imbued version can come out at any quality, giving you lower imbued effects if it's not pristine... Very noticeable in imbued weapons that come out less than pristine in the imbue process.

[Scort]

This proc change will effect a lot more than rangers or monks. Quite a few classes have multiple attack CAs that will now be effected and their DPS dropped even further than the nerfs to their CAs themselves lately.

[Incedio]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div>First off, while creating the next series of imbued items, we noticed a problem with near-infinitely stackable stat buffs from imbued rings. We couldn't continue along with this progression, and decided that it was necessary to change the way imbued rings work.Imbued rings have been modified to be more focused on a single imbued stat. The benefits will also improve depending on the quality level of a crafted item, so you'll see the greatest stat benefit from pristine imbued rings. Additionally, we've made the stat enhancements for imbued rings have a chance to trigger on different events during combat: strength rings can trigger on successful melee attacks; agility rings can trigger on combat art usage; stamina rings can trigger on taking damage; wisdom rings can trigger when beneficial spells are cast; intelligence rings can trigger when offensive spells land.<div></div><hr></blockquote>So wait, I am confused about something here. You changed it so that melee weapons would not proc off of bow damage because you said it didn't make any sense due to the fact that we were not shooting melee weapons out of our bows. But, how does it make sense that a ring on my finger procs when I hit something with an arrow? This sounds like fuzzy logic to me.<p>Message Edited by Incedious on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:17 AM</span></p>

[KagekDahung]

<div>Well, now I'm glad I didn't have enough money to buy that Royal Great Flail. Not only will I not be able to specialize in it with AA, but now the proc rate will be nerfed cause CA will no longer count?</div>

[Tro]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><p>Hi Blackguard. I was wondering if you could please comment on the HP/Power/AC nerf of the Conjurer and Necro pets that occurred during LU19. I won't go into details as there are several posts on it..</p><p>Can you just speak to this please and answer these questions:</p><p>1. Was it intentional or not?</p><p>2. If non intentional, can we get an idea as to when it will be corrected?</p><p>3. If it was intentional, can we get a  reason as to why you all felt this was necessary?</p><p>I feel (As do many others) this was a result of the NPC HP nerf that was advertised in the LU19 notes. Did the PC Pets inadvertently get this change also?     </p></blockquote><p>Many are very upset that we have seen nothing from the Devs/game designers on this issue as of yet..</p><p>Appreciate it..</p><p>Message Edited by Trook on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:20 AM</span></p>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<div></div><p>I would love to know what you plan on doing about these sorc issues.</p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=89946">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=89946</a></p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=3521">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=3521</a></p><p><u><font color="#800080"><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=20390">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=20390</a></font></u><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=20390"></a></p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=5733">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=5733</a></p><p> </p><p>and more specifically wizard issues</p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=20634">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=20634</a></p><p> </p><p>the gap in dps will only widen for t7.</p>

[Incedio]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>IllusiveThoughts wrote:<div></div><p>I would love to know what you plan on doing about these sorc issues.</p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=89946">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=89946</a></p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=3521">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=3521</a></p><p><u><font color="#800080"><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=20390">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=20390</a></font></u><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=20390"></a></p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=5733">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=5733</a></p><p> </p><p>and more specifically wizard issues</p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=20634">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=20634</a></p><p> </p><p>the gap in dps will only widen for t7.</p><hr></blockquote>How is it going to widen? They just nerfed every scout class. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[IllusiveThoughts]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Incedious wrote:<div></div>How is it going to widen? They just nerfed every scout class. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote>i'd like you to actually read the threads before posting something like this.

[Cael]

<div></div>He has, and hes right. You don thave to worry about rangers being your T1 competitors anymore. This has taken us down to t3

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div>We also discovered some problems with the way procs trigger. As it stands on Live today, the longer the delay of your weapon, the more likely a proc will trigger. Sounds logical, of course, but we noticed one glaring issue: It also affects combat arts. No matter the speed of your weapon, you're able to fire off combat arts just as fast as the next character. Procs would trigger on these combat arts, and with slower weapons, they fire off significantly more often than with faster weapons.This is changing. We couldn't continue with procs working in this manner and make combat that was challenging enough for those who could take advantage of it without making creatures that were far too strong for the vast majority of classes.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Easy question, will this new proc change affect spells and spell procs? As in, if I have a 33% chance to proc Dynamism, is that based on a 3.0 casting time, or will be that be based on the fact that it's going to go off with a chance of 1/3?

[Sonorod]

<div>Would using an items such as mana stone or hearts and shards that incurr direct damage to gain power count as the damage that can break Amazing Reflexes?  Just wondering.</div>

[tashanin]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:Balance testing new content ranges is always very revealing. When you take things up a tier, problems in the existing systems end up being magnified and rapidly come to the forefront. The Kingdom of Sky beta is no exception--over the course of KoS beta testing, a few issues came to the surface that we felt were important to address.First off, while creating the next series of imbued items, we noticed a problem with near-infinitely stackable stat buffs from imbued rings. We couldn't continue along with this progression, and decided that it was necessary to change the way imbued rings work.Imbued rings have been modified to be more focused on a single imbued stat. The benefits will also improve depending on the quality level of a crafted item, so you'll see the greatest stat benefit from pristine imbued rings. Additionally, we've made the stat enhancements for imbued rings have a chance to trigger on different events during combat: strength rings can trigger on successful melee attacks; agility rings can trigger on combat art usage; stamina rings can trigger on taking damage; wisdom rings can trigger when beneficial spells are cast; intelligence rings can trigger when offensive spells land.</blockquote><font color="#3399ff">Sounds reasonable enough, could you give us an example of this?Does this mean that rings that are imbued for wisdom would have a higher wisdom base stat than say a strength ring, but then have the ability to proc an additional effect during the casting of beneficial spells? For example, the same wisdom ring has 6 more wis as a base stat then procs a an ability to make heals a small percentage more effecient.  Is this what we are talking about?</font><blockquote>We also discovered some problems with the way procs trigger. As it stands on Live today, the longer the delay of your weapon, the more likely a proc will trigger. Sounds logical, of course, but we noticed one glaring issue: It also affects combat arts. No matter the speed of your weapon, you're able to fire off combat arts just as fast as the next character. Procs would trigger on these combat arts, and with slower weapons, they fire off significantly more often than with faster weapons.This is changing. We couldn't continue with procs working in this manner and make combat that was challenging enough for those who could take advantage of it without making creatures that were far too strong for the vast majority of classes.</blockquote><font color="#3399ff">Sounds logical enough, but my concern is with recent changes this has the possiblity to swing (no pun) drastically in the wrong direction making it even more difficult for players that use long delay weapons and combat arts to recieve procs from imbued weapons, spells, rings, etc. Are procs not going to have the ability to engage during the initiation of a combat art or are you planning on basing it off of a static percentage?</font><blockquote>And finally, we've made a few changes to Brigands that some of you have already seen and provided feedback on. Before the change to Amazing Reflexes, this art could be used to grant permanent indirect AoE immunity. This had the effect of Brigands not needing to acquire diverse gear for resists and health because nothing touched them as long as they did not acquire aggro. This wasn't a matter of player skill so much as it was relying on a single extremely powerful ability.As of LU20, Amazing Reflexes will break for a short duration if the Brigand takes damage, so you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs. You can still avoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so, but Amazing Reflexes is no longer a get-out-of-jail-free card.</blockquote><font color="#3399ff">Don't play a brigand, so can't comment on this...</font><blockquote>Keep in mind that the way these changes function when they all make it to Live may be different than described here, and could even be adjusted further thereafter. However, I thought it would be a good idea to discuss what we're doing and why so you know we aren't just "nerfing" things for the fun of it. There's always a reason, and we think this will make the game more fun for everyone, especially in the long term. As always, your feedback is welcome, so feel free to provide it in a constructive manner here.</blockquote><font color="#3399ff">I appreciate the heads up on this, and hope that this trend continues because it promotes more 2-way communication between the developers and the consumers.  Would it be possible when foundation changes are being tested (example(s): ring imbues, Con changes, etc) that there could be specific posts either on testing or in a seperate section that could be discussed and chewed over with by the community? With the amount of changes that have been coming out with each live update the feedback threads can get cumbersome and the direction of the threads have a tendancy to dive in rather quick fashion.</font><blockquote><hr></blockquote><font color="#3399ff">Thanks for your time,</font><font color="#3399ff"></font><font color="#3399ff">~Gladiusedited for spelling</font></span></div><p>Message Edited by tashanin on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:30 AM</span></p>

[Vollux]

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Sonorod wrote:<div>Would using an items such as mana stone or hearts and shards that incurr direct damage to gain power count as the damage that can break Amazing Reflexes?  Just wondering.</div><hr></blockquote></div><div>As it stands now- yes. </div><div> </div><div>damage shields and manastone/vessel all cancel AR. </div><p>Message Edited by Vollux on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:32 PM</span></p>

[Handleba]

Brigands can like with having to recast AR after an AOE is landed, but with manastones, vessels, and Damage Shields break AR also?<div></div>

[Hirebra]

<div></div>Does this affect the illusionist  <b><i>Prismatic * </i></b> line, Blackguard?<img src="http://www.millsplace.com/eq/images/Illusionist/PrismaticHavoc.gif"><div></div><p>Message Edited by Hirebrand on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:35 PM</span></p>

[Tanit]

So basically you're nerfing rangers down to sorcerer T2 dps, while summoners keep their T1 dps spot?<div></div>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Caelum wrote:<div></div>He has, and hes right. You don thave to worry about rangers being your T1 competitors anymore. This has taken us down to t3<hr></blockquote>that is just flat out false information.  sorc were not doing t1 dps.  and the nerf doesn't put preds down to t3.

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div>Balance testing new content ranges is always very revealing. When you take things up a tier, problems in the existing systems end up being magnified and rapidly come to the forefront. The Kingdom of Sky beta is no exception--over the course of KoS beta testing, a few issues came to the surface that we felt were important to address.First off, while creating the next series of imbued items, we noticed a problem with near-infinitely stackable stat buffs from imbued rings. We couldn't continue along with this progression, and decided that it was necessary to change the way imbued rings work.Imbued rings have been modified to be more focused on a single imbued stat. The benefits will also improve depending on the quality level of a crafted item, so you'll see the greatest stat benefit from pristine imbued rings. Additionally, we've made the stat enhancements for imbued rings have a chance to trigger on different events during combat: strength rings can trigger on successful melee attacks; agility rings can trigger on combat art usage; stamina rings can trigger on taking damage; wisdom rings can trigger when beneficial spells are cast; intelligence rings can trigger when offensive spells land.We also discovered some problems with the way procs trigger. As it stands on Live today, the longer the delay of your weapon, the more likely a proc will trigger. Sounds logical, of course, but we noticed one glaring issue: It also affects combat arts. No matter the speed of your weapon, you're able to fire off combat arts just as fast as the next character. Procs would trigger on these combat arts, and with slower weapons, they fire off significantly more often than with faster weapons.This is changing. We couldn't continue with procs working in this manner and make combat that was challenging enough for those who could take advantage of it without making creatures that were far too strong for the vast majority of classes.And finally, we've made a few changes to Brigands that some of you have already seen and provided feedback on. Before the change to Amazing Reflexes, this art could be used to grant permanent indirect AoE immunity. This had the effect of Brigands not needing to acquire diverse gear for resists and health because nothing touched them as long as they did not acquire aggro. This wasn't a matter of player skill so much as it was relying on a single extremely powerful ability.As of LU20, Amazing Reflexes will break for a short duration if the Brigand takes damage, so you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs. You can still avoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so, but Amazing Reflexes is no longer a get-out-of-jail-free card.Keep in mind that the way these changes function when they all make it to Live may be different than described here, and could even be adjusted further thereafter. However, I thought it would be a good idea to discuss what we're doing and why so you know we aren't just "nerfing" things for the fun of it. There's always a reason, and we think this will make the game more fun for everyone, especially in the long term. As always, your feedback is welcome, so feel free to provide it in a constructive manner here.<div></div><hr></blockquote>More working on templars and guardians .. less sweeping nerf's.The ring debarkle needs to be addressed, and DONE with .. not changed every live update ..The proc deal is way over kill, how bout making some small changes, and seeing how that goes.  Its Ballance (as in meeting in the  middle) .. not nerf the tallest poppy to oblivion.. little changes man.. little changes.. lower the tallest .. lift up the smallest.</span></div>

[Sritt]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Hirebrand wrote:<div></div>Does this affect the illusionist  <b><i>Prismatic * </i></b> line, Blackguard?<img src="http://www.millsplace.com/eq/images/Illusionist/PrismaticHavoc.gif"><div></div><p>Message Edited by Hirebrand on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:35 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I would assume this isn't affected as its an 'always proc' witha  limited number of uses, like the monk's shocking fist line of CA's that don't time out and just lasts for 8 successful attacks. Also I think some people are reversing things with the proc chances, it sounds to me from the post that those with faster CAs and slower weapons were actually getting a higher proc rate than those with faster weapons. Procs seem fairly few on my monk, who has fast dual-wield weapons and fairly fast CAs for the most part (just slow recharge on many of them) while my shadowknight with slower weapons and only slighlty slower combat arts got procs much more often. The issue sounds like proc rate was being 'buffed' for slower weapons but didn't take into account the speed of the user's CAs so those with fast CAs and a slow weapon were having a higher effective proc rate than others (even others of the same class who were using a faster weapon).

[Sykophrog]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Hirebrand wrote:<div></div>Does this affect the illusionist  <b><i>Prismatic * </i></b> line, Blackguard?<img src="http://www.millsplace.com/eq/images/Illusionist/PrismaticHavoc.gif"><div></div><p>Message Edited by Hirebrand on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:35 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>If I understand this spell right.. Its a 100% proc rate for a max of 3 procs right?  In which case from what I've read from BG is that:</p><p> 1) It will only proc 3 times (some CA's that had mulitple attacks could occasionally make it proc more often, ie attack twice then use a 3x CA for a total of 5 procs)</p><p>2) On multi-attack CA's it will only proc on the 1st attack... you'll still get all 3 procs off but only the 1st attack of a multi-attack CA will do so (so if you do a 3x CA you still have to do 2 more attacks to burn off all 3 procs)</p><p>This is how I'm understanding the current proc changes would affect that particular spell.</p>

[Nerj]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Interesting, However balance usually means some sort of equality is being made. From Blackguards' post it appears the ONLY balance being made is to reduce some things for players. Yet, there are many glaring issues that are very unbalanced against players.</p><p>The most common being Enchanter uselessness in Epic battles. We were told that Enchanters weren't being fixed till after the KoS expansion, since there wasn't enough time to do it.  Yet, fo things that are changes AGAINST players there is more then enough time implementation. Now why is there time to balance things AGAINST players and NOT enough time to balance things that are FOR players? Is this then real balance or real nerfage?</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Nerjin on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:54 PM</span></p>

[MexStrat]

<div></div><p>Thank you,  For finally responding to the issue of Amazing Reflexes. </p><p> First, I was very disapointed in some of the terminology you used.  "Get out of jail free card"</p><p>Does this mean that the classes that can effectively do the job, their class is intended to, outside of any AE range essentially gets to keep their "Get out of jail free card"?</p><p>I for one, hate to see Casters and Predators obliterated by AEs.  I enjoy seeing them stand back well out of range of the mobs AE, Firing arrows and lunching Ice Comets, from a safe distance, While the brigands maintain a constant mitigation debuff that benifits them.  </p><p>The issue of not needing 'Diverse Gear', Do you mean to contend that every class should essential be carring several different types of gear?  If this is the case, I can live with it, if it is effectively enforced across all classes.  Although i still contend brigands do have to have diverse gear, from the basic needing to beable to switch from Slashing to Piercing weapons, to the eccentric soloing gear. (I use the word eccentric, Because, is it really neccassary for a brigand to have a set of gear strictly for soloing...probably not.  but do all other classes need to either).</p><p>I am curious what your concept of short period of time.  according to previous post the Amazing Reflexes would not be recastable for 30 seconds.  Am i too assume that, that time frame is being looked at.  </p><p>The one issue not covered in this post is the issue of Damage incurred by friendly means..i.e. Manastone, Overflowing Vessel of Fyr'Un, etc as well as the damage incurred by the seemingly more popular Damage Shields.</p><p>Again I would like to thank you for taking the time to respond to the brigands request for more information.  And I wait in anticipation for a response to the specific issues i have mentioned above.</p>

[thepriz]

I am really greatfull that you are explaining why you are changing what you are changing. This is much better than the stealth nerfs.<div></div>

[RolinThund]

<div></div><div>Blackguard,</div><div> </div><div>Thanks for your feedback on the AR issue regarding Brigands.</div><div> </div><div><em>And finally, we've made a few changes to Brigands that some of you have already seen and provided feedback on. Before the change to Amazing Reflexes, this art could be used to grant permanent i<font color="#ff3333">ndirect</font> AoE immunity. <font color="#ff3333">This had the effect of Brigands not needing to acquire diverse gear for resists and health because nothing touched them as long as they did not acquire aggro. This wasn't a matter of player skill so much as it was relying on a single extremely powerful ability.</font></em></div><p>The key here is <u>indirect</u>,  currently the AR only works as long as the brigand stays in the shadows and does his/her job (debuff) with out drawing aggro from the mob. I personally feel that this requires a lot of work and attention to detail (Player Skill). If we do not pay attention to what we are doing, we <u>will</u> draw aggro, and we <u>will</u> die, AR will not save us because we are not immune to direct AOE.</p><p><em>As of LU20, Amazing Reflexes will break for a short duration if the Brigand takes damage, <font color="#ff0033">so you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs</font>. <font color="#ff0033">You can still avoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so, but Amazing Reflexes is no longer a get-out-of-jail-free card.</font></em><em></em></p><p>Unskilled brigands die <u>now</u>. As Brignads we must use skill <u>now</u> to avoid  drawing aggro and drawing direct AoEs.</p><p>Thank you for the consideration.</p><p>Uccish Nightclaw</p><p>54 Brigand</p><p> </p><div> </div>

[Moorgard]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> Cykophrog wrote: <P></P> <P>If I understand this spell right.. Its a 100% proc rate for a max of 3 procs right?  In which case from what I've read from BG is that:</P> <P> 1) It will only proc 3 times (some CA's that had mulitple attacks could occasionally make it proc more often, ie attack twice then use a 3x CA for a total of 5 procs)</P> <P>2) On multi-attack CA's it will only proc on the 1st attack... you'll still get all 3 procs off but only the 1st attack of a multi-attack CA will do so (so if you do a 3x CA you still have to do 2 more attacks to burn off all 3 procs)</P> <P>This is how I'm understanding the current proc changes would affect that particular spell. <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You are correct.</P> <P>These changes mean, simply, that you'll get the number of procs indicated in the spell description instead of potentially a lot more.</P>

[Xery]

How does this apply to procs that do not have a limited number of charges?  Will they still be able to fire on every hit, or only on the first one, further nerfing several more abilities?<div></div>

[Sli]

<div></div><div>I also applaud the dev team for bringing things like this to peoples attention.  It shows they really are looking in to things and trying to make sure we all end up on a level playing field.</div><div> </div><div>That being said I also had high asperations that this thread would be a glimmer of hope to bring my Templar out of retirement.  Sorry I know , wrong forum and definately wrong thread <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</div>

[Own]

Ok.. the new effects to AR do seem managable, but are Dmg shields and mana stone suposed to break it? could we get a reponse plz moorguardthx

[AratornCalahn]

I really dont see the relation between "skill" and having an ability up or standing outside the AOE...But ok. However - Damage Shield using mobs and self inflicted damage - shards/manastone etc have nothing to do with skill right? why do they punish us as if we got aggro?<div></div>

[Dtrick]

<div></div><p>In regards to the AR change:</p><p>If this skill was overpowered, then why give shamans and bards this skill through an AA?</p><p>This skill was given to us because we have one ranged combat art.  Are we going to get more ranged combat arts to use when we have to joust mobs that have a permanent damage sheild?</p><p>Are the vessel, manastone, shards, and hearts really going to become completely useless to the raiding Brigand?</p><p>To me this seems like a very unfair change towards Brigands.  This skill was given to us due to our non-existant ranged combat arts.  Also with our ranged combat art we are forced to use an item that can not be imbued nor does it proc for us like bows.  As for saying a skilled Brigand will be able to use this skill, I am very hessitant to believe the skill is even working in its current state due to reports from Brigands on beta.  And I would consider these Brigands as very skilled from the knowledge that they bring to the Brigand's boards.</p>

[Strifex]

<div></div><div>With respect to Brigands.  If the Brigand takes damage it will cancel AR.  If I use my manastone or Vessel of Fry'un I will break my own AR.  How does this address the issue noted in your post Blackguard?  My ability to use my manastone and vessel in the same manner as all the classes has just been eliminated if I am adhering to my responsibilities to maintain debuffs on the raid mob.  If I use my stone or vessel then I break my AR and must run to the sidelines, stand there and wait for the penalty to expire for using my manastone/vessel before I can be a contirbuting member of the raid again.  I do not see how nerfing a Brigands use of manastone/vessel relates to "being careful about your targets and aggro management."</div><div> </div><div>I do not think anyone believes you are "nerfing things for the fun of it."  I do believe based on the overwhelming customer responses on the boards, that most think the repetitive nerfing is not well thought out, nor is it done in consideration of the many customers who have countless hours playing their classes.  I do not mean that in a harsh or malicious way at all, the mulittude of posts speak for themselves.</div><div> </div><div>I have posted comments on the Brigand board on the following threads.  "Beta changes to Ruse and AR as of 2-13-06", "What SOE is overlooking with proposd AR nerf", Over reaction", and "its unfair Brigands should have 100% AR immunity."  The upcoming Nerf has sent profound concerns throughout the Brigand community and I have tried to capture those concerns in hopes of them being reviewed and considered.  Forgive some of the in-accurate reasons posted why this nerf was taking place, with out any justification or explanation, some put thier best guess work forward.</div><div> </div><div>Like many other Brigands, not once has my gear selection been driven by my AR skill.  I focus on STR and AGI items (all scouts do), and when given a choice between two similiar items, my priority then becomes providing balance to my resists or to suppliment my secondary set of gear. </div><div> </div><div>As I have stated and I am sure you are extremely familiar with, Brigands are designed to debuff the mob in close combat range.  Many of our debuffs are short duration.  AR in its current form allows Brigands to function with that class design by allowing them to maintain close combat range so they are able to provide those debuffsand it has functioned in a game balancing way by forcing us to take great care in aggro management and in keeping us in our proper place as tier 2 DPS.  The skill comes at a significant cost of +12% aggro increase at adept III.  +12% hate gain is already a huge counter balance to the skill because it forces a calculated pace in our application process of providing those debuffs.  Add the +12% hate gain to the fact that if we do not exercise the proper skill in applying those debuffs we will draw aggro which will (1) draw the mobs AE, (2) take aggro from the MT/MA which risks the success of the raid, (3) more than likely send the Brigand to his death.  Raid mobs hit tremendously hard, well beyond the capability for a Brigand to withstand.  The majority of the time, when I take aggro I die in in 1 or 2 hits, Brigands are just not designed to take those kind of hits. </div><div> </div><div>It adds a level of required finess in playing a Brigand that brings a lot of fun to the game and makes it rewarding when skill is the reason the raid mob falls.  There is no skill involved when, if I face a mob with a damage shield or use my manastone/vessel that forces me sit out of combat when I should be executing my responsibilities of debuffing the mob.  It is skill and its fun when I have to provide a finesse and use the experience I have gathered over many hours of playing time, to control my aggro with an added +12% penalty in order to contribute to the raids success and the preservation of me surviving the encounter.</div><div> </div><div>If AR is to break when the Brigand takes damage, it should be because we screwed up in our application of skill, not because we used our manastone in a manner that every other class does or because of damage shields.  Put the "if a Brigand takes damage" in the AR skill but make the use of manastone/vessel and damage shields the exception to that.</div>

[Xery]

<div></div><div></div>First, let me say, I'm not a ranger - but this proc change is still very upsetting.The change that was made to procs that disabled proc buffs / poisons from firing from offhand weapons hurt all melee classes - EXCEPT rangers, since any smart ranger wasn't using their melee weapons anyway.  Now, another sweeping change is being made in an attempt to balance rangers, with seemingly little regard to how it will affect other classes - again.With the first proc nerf that disabled offhand weapons firing buff procs, it wrecked some key abilities for many classes.  One such ability was mine, Cacophony of Blades (dirge).  Shortly before this change, several changes had been made to the duration and recast timers of the troubador equivalent Precision of the Maestro, and the devs then said that they felt the two songs were balanced with each other.  In response to some troubadors complaining that Precision's duration was too short because melee classes had many more chances to proc, either Moorgard or Blackguard (sorry <span>:smileysad:</span> I mix you guys up sometimes, but I'm pretty sure it was one of you!) stated that players could figure out ways to maximize the effectiveness of each spell.  He said that a dirge could group up with several fast-delay dual wielders to achieve the maximum benefit from Cacophony of Blades, and a troubador grouped with several mages could create a "glass cannon" group with Precision of the Maestro.Because of the situational effectiveness of the 2 songs, the devs and most players seemed to agree that they were balanced.  However, the change to offhand procs cut the maximum potential of Cacophony of Blades in HALF, and nothing was done to address that problem.  The obvious simple solution there, IF the offhand proc removal change is absolutely not changing, is to double the proc damage on Cacophony, although doing so takes out any player thought as far as weapon choice.  Additionally, if this newest change to procs in relation to multiple attack CAs also affects proc buffs with unlimited charges (such as Cacophony of Blades), there's no skill in "saving" flurry attacks for when Cacophony is active.Obviously, these changes affect more classes than just dirges, I'm just pointing out an area I know well.  I play a monk as well, and the offhand proc change, and most likely this newest change, had large negative impacts on the monk taunt proc (Dragon Stance line).After many complaints, Blackguard stated that the offhand proc nerf was being discussed to determine if it was too heavy-handed and should instead only be applied to poisons.  After that statement, the issue fell silent, leaving many of us feeling like our classes were hit by a nerf that wasn't really aimed at us, and then nothing was done to correct it.  Now here we are a couple months later, with still no mention of any changes to address the fallout from that patch, and we're faced with another gamewide change that seems mostly aimed at reducing the damage output of 1 class out of 24.Blackguard stated in the original post here that the current proc formula exists to try to balance out proc rates between fast, slow, 1H, 2H, and DW weapons.  What, then, is the purpose in having different weapon types?  Fast and / or dual wield weapons still miss chances to swing during the time it takes to cast CAs / spells.  The dual wield weapon damage and proc rate increase several updates ago attempted to address that imbalance, but still wasn't perfect.  Many parsers seem to agree that there seems to be a weapon delay minimum cap of 0.8 seconds.  Why shouldn't a 1.2 delay weapon with a lot of haste, be allowed to proc more over time than a slower weapon?  The hasted 1.2 delay weapon very likely will bottom out, thus wasting some haste potential, in addition to having more missed attacks due to CA / soell casting time.  Allowing the faster weapons to proc more often than a slower weapon in the same amount of time would partially fill the gap.  Then again, removing the minimum delay cap and setting CA casting time back to 0.2 seconds and / or removing recovery times would also help address that problem.I realize ranger damage was probably too high, but I don't think this is the right way to handle it.  Perhaps the formula needs to be normalized in a different manner (who really has a 3.0 second delay weapon anyway?).  Maybe, just maybe, the normalizing formula should be scratched, and procs should actually fire at the percentage rate listed on their descriptions.  Failing that, maybe there just needs to be an upper bound on max proc rates.  For example, set the formula to work so that if the weapon's delay is over 3 seconds, then it will be calculated as if it had a 3 second delay.  That would reduce the actual proc rate of 7 second delay longbows, without nerfing everyone else in an attempt to fix just 1 class.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Xeryna on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:05 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Xeryna on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:08 PM</span></p>

[BrizaOr]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div>And finally, we've made a few changes to Brigands that some of you have already seen and provided feedback on. Before the change to Amazing Reflexes, this art could be used to grant permanent indirect AoE immunity. This had the effect of Brigands not needing to acquire diverse gear for resists and health because nothing touched them as long as they did not acquire aggro. This wasn't a matter of player skill so much as it was relying on a single extremely powerful ability.As of LU20, Amazing Reflexes will break for a short duration if the Brigand takes damage, so you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs. You can still avoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so, but Amazing Reflexes is no longer a get-out-of-jail-free card.<hr></blockquote><p>While i understand that the ability that wouldn't basically break for any duration was somewhat very powerful. This change still worries me as brigand, AR will break when a brigand takes <em>any sort</em> of damage. So basically, lets take a scenario of a longer power consuming fight - there a brigand would have to wait 30 seconds to bring up AR again each time after using items such as summoner hearts, manastone, vessel of fyr'un etc. In my opinion especially for using a beneficial item game shouldn't punish a particular class more than any other class ingame.</p><p>Another rather nasty case is where a raid encounter has a damageshield that cannot be removed by means of dispelling - it would make the whole skill useless in the particular fight. I suppose that goes under the "you'll need to be careful about your targets" but still it sounds more of a means to limit the usefulness of brigand class in such fights regardless how skilled you are or not, in such case you would be forced to joust or eat AE's. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Also while we are on the subject of talking about rogues, what about ranged DPS of rogue classes in KoS agains't raid encounters. Since the rare crafted throwing weapon pouches (and other rare crafted items) are currently labeled as treasured in KoS beta and at least this far I haven't heard of any legendary or fabled pouches dropping. Does it mean that rogues will be doing a zero DPS ranged while using throwing weapons due to treasured tag vs an epic mob or was the restriction of needing above treasured weapon to harm an epic mob removed in past updates?</p><p>Bit embarrasing to admit, but I haven't really been checking if the treasured stuff works vs epics in past months. I guess having a single ranged CA with 30 sec recast does that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Message Edited by BrizaOrin on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:05 PM</span></p>

[rackman]

<div></div>When will Wizzy be the top DPS?

[Cragger]

<div>Blackguard,</div><div> </div><div>Your development team does realize that having AR break on taking damage for the reasons you want is exactly the same as AR stands now. You aren't making a balance change you are simply penalizing Brigands.</div><div> </div><div>Current:</div><div> </div><div>AR protects against indirect AoE attacks, if the AoE is direct the Brigand takes damage. Additional hate gain, intent not to draw aggro which on a raid mob the brigand will be dead before the tank knows what happened most of the time.</div><div> </div><div>On test:</div><div> </div><div>AR protects against indirect AoE attacks, if the AoE is direct the Brigand takes damage and AR buff drops. Additional hate gain, intent not to draw aggro, use manastone, use vessel of Fy'Urn, use shards, use hearts, or even attempt to hit a mob with a damage shield on a raid mob the brigand will be dead before the tanks knows what happened most of the time.</div><div> </div><div>You've done nothing to change the skill but remove things which ever other class can use without worry. You've elimanated Brigands from playing any respective role that thier class was designed for against mobs that have damage shields.</div><div> </div><div>My proposal:</div><div> </div><div>Leave AR as it is but have it drop once it eats an AoE, forcing the Brigand to joust out until he can use AR once again 30-45s.</div>

[Geekyone]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>rackman wrote:<div></div>When will Wizzy be the top DPS?<hr></blockquote>Never!   My pally will always be better.

[ZeroRavesOn]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Dtrick wrote:<div></div><p>In regards to the AR change:</p><p>If this skill was overpowered, then why give shamans and bards this skill through an AA?</p><p>This skill was given to us because we have one ranged combat art.  Are we going to get more ranged combat arts to use when we have to joust mobs that have a permanent damage sheild?</p><p>Are the vessel, manastone, shards, and hearts really going to become completely useless to the raiding Brigand?</p><p>To me this seems like a very unfair change towards Brigands.  This skill was given to us due to our non-existant ranged combat arts.  Also with our ranged combat art we are forced to use an item that can not be imbued nor does it proc for us like bows.  As for saying a skilled Brigand will be able to use this skill, I am very hessitant to believe the skill is even working in its current state due to reports from Brigands on beta.  And I would consider these Brigands as very skilled from the knowledge that they bring to the Brigand's boards.</p><hr></blockquote>My Amazing Reflexes-esque achievement choice is hardly as broken as AR is currently on live.Right now, you dont have to worry about AoE abilities at all.  Dirges, Troubadors, Assassins, Swashbucklers currently have to joust, whereas AR makes it such that you dont have to.  At worst, a mob with DS and you manastoneing, makes it such that brigands have to joust, like these other 4 scouts already have to do.Bladedance, the Bard 5th node achievement that grants AoE immunity to the group, currently lasts for 12 seconds and has a recast of 5 minutes.  Bladesinger, the Bard 2nd node achievement that gives self only AoE immunity requires that we have a sword equipped in the primary slot (bye bye dual wield if youre using this) has a duration of 10 seconds and recast of 1 minute.  Compared to even the fixed version of Amazing Reflexes, these suck.The nerf (it is a definate nerf, no question there) brings brigands in line with the other scouts in having to worry about AE attacks, but not quite as much. This is something that should have happened in the DoF beta, not the KoS one.  Brigands still enjoy the best AE avoidance, but it is not the brokenness it was.</span></div>

[emr]

Maybe we can get an explansion as to why the crusader's PvE are being so penalized in this update?.

[emr]

<span><blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>rackman wrote:<div></div>When will Wizzy be the top DPS?<hr></blockquote>Never!   My pally will always be better.<hr></blockquote>LOLmy swashy 35 out DPS my Paladin 60.But my  paladin 60 does out DPS my  wizard 21</span><div></div>

[Dtrick]

<div></div><blockquote><blockquote><blockquote><hr>ZeroRavesOn wrote:<div><span>Right now, you dont have to worry about AoE abilities at all.  Dirges, Troubadors, Assassins, Swashbucklers currently have to joust, whereas AR makes it such that you dont have to.  At worst, a mob with DS and you manastoneing, makes it such that brigands have to joust, like these other 4 scouts already have to do.The nerf (it is a definate nerf, no question there) brings brigands in line with the other scouts in having to worry about AE attacks, but not quite as much. This is something that should have happened in the DoF beta, not the KoS one.  Brigands still enjoy the best AE avoidance, but it is not the brokenness it was.</span></div><hr></blockquote>How is this bringing us in line when we have 1 ranged combat art that requires a pouch.  All of the classes that you mention that have to joust AoEs have more than 1 ranged combat art and can use a bow that procs.  Currently we are FORCED to use a pouch that does not proc and the stats are half of the rare bows.  Also, our 1 ranged combat art does about 600 dmg and has a 30 second recast.  How is this fair to Brigands?</blockquote></blockquote>

[Goonch]

<div></div><div></div><p>First I would like to say thanks for responding to the brigand community with an explanation of the Amazing Reflexes changes. </p><p>The way I interpreted your post is with AR the way it works now there is no skill involved with us sitting in the heat of things hacking away at the mob, and there was no need for us to diversify our gear because we had the attitude, "who cares about resists when you aren't taking the damage?". </p><p>If you want it to be about skill then have AR drop if you get aggro or take damage because you were dumb enough to stand in front of the mob and get riposted.  That takes skill.  There is no skill involved if there is a damage shield on the mob or if you are unable to use the manastone or vessel.  The effect should be changed to "AR drops if you take direct damage while targeted by a npc."  (or something to that effect :smileyvery-happy: ) </p><p>Stay in the lines of the spell.  We are still hit by AE's if we are the target, why not change the turning off effect of the spell to be along the same ideal.  That way damage shield would not drop the buff during a fight , nor would manastone because it would be self inflicted.  I think this is a fair solution.</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Goonch on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:37 PM</span></p>

[Visay1]

<div>Sorcerers will get no buff. They will nerf all classes to be lower than sorcerer damage to make them T1 like they are supposed to. My Ranger damage is down to 50% on Beta right now. I parse lower than Sorcerers every fight now.</div><p>Message Edited by Visay1 on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:37 PM</span></p>

[Melfius]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Visay1 wrote:<hr></blockquote>QFE (Huh???)

[Goonch]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr><div> </div><div>My proposal:</div><div> </div><div>Leave AR as it is but have it drop once it eats an AoE, forcing the Brigand to joust out until he can use AR once again 30-45s.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Ummm no.  This is not a good solution what so ever.  Take it from someone was has been involved in every t6 mob in the game sans the Djinn Master as a brigand.  As you probably know since you have several 60s, most mobs have at least 2 AEs with in seconds of each other.  This idea is not realistic and would be even worse than the current change.</p><p>Message Edited by Goonch on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:43 PM</span></p>

[Cragger]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Goonch wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr><div> </div><div>My proposal:</div><div> </div><div>Leave AR as it is but have it drop once it eats an AoE, forcing the Brigand to joust out until he can use AR once again 30-45s.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Ummm no.  This is not a good solution what so ever.  Take it from someone was has been involved in every t6 mob in the game sans the Djinn Master as a brigand.  As you probably know since you have several 60s, most mobs have at least 2 AEs with in seconds of each other.  This idea is not realistic and would be even worse than the current change.</p><p>Message Edited by Goonch on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:43 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Yes I do know, but my proposal at least AR has function. It can eat one AE and you have to sit out the other. The proposed change has absolutely no function as damage shields completely negate it as well as power recovery items. In essence it will make it like the 65 Defiler spell Defile is going to be ... Absolute Uselessness.

[Neue Reg]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div><font color="#ffff00">And finally, we've made a few changes to Brigands that some of you have already seen and provided feedback on. Before the change to Amazing Reflexes, this art could be used to grant permanent indirect AoE immunity. This had the effect of Brigands not needing to acquire diverse gear for resists and health because nothing touched them as long as they did not acquire aggro. This wasn't a matter of player skill so much as it was relying on a single extremely powerful ability.As of LU20, Amazing Reflexes will break for a short duration if the Brigand takes damage, so you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs. You can still avoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so, but Amazing Reflexes is no longer a get-out-of-jail-free card.</font>Keep in mind that the way these changes function when they all make it to Live may be different than described here, and could even be adjusted further thereafter. However, I thought it would be a good idea to discuss what we're doing and why so you know we aren't just "nerfing" things for the fun of it. There's always a reason, and we think this will make the game more fun for everyone, especially in the long term. As always, your feedback is welcome, so feel free to provide it in a constructive manner here.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>1.  The raiding cntent at the time the spell was given to us didnt have undispellable dmg shields.  You have (since LU19), and possibly before, added SK mobs with undispellable dmg shields to mobs in Gates and PPR.</p><p>2.  Dmg shields will break the AR buff, and so will self inflicted dmg like Manastone and Vessel.  Why would something self inflicted (players choice) and Undispellable dmg shields (SK mobs) have the ability to break a buff?</p><p>3.  I understand the need for a change, I understand we need to be more careful with the way we manage agro.  But to toss a raid force under the buss due to something that is far beyond the control of anyone in the raid, is crazy.</p><p>4.  To appease the community you are adding a temp run buff (which the beta testers are saying doesnt work) and taking off the hate?  TBH its pretty useless.</p><p>5.  I think (I could be wrong), that most of the community could live with it by making dmg shields and self inflicted dmg not effect it.  I know I could.  From what I am gathering the issue seems to be you feel we have it easy by having this skill.  OK fine, but put the destiny of destroying the mob in the players hands.</p><p> </p><p>I am not asking you to go look at the dmg shield buff on SKs and make it dispellable now.  Progressive class nerfs only get you guys in more trouble in the end (yea I have seen it before with eq1 and eq2).  Why not have a look at these 2 specific issues and adress them without further nerfing anyone.  But you cant ignore the fact that a bunch of mobs now have these abilitys, which means all soe has to do is make a mob an SK and it renders this CA (one of 3 new skills we got with DoF) is completly useless. </p><p> </p><p>I am not in Beta so I cannot speak for t7, but at least half of the mobs in gates are now sks and have undispellable dmg shields.  You notice how this was ommitted from any patch notes anywhere.  It almost seems like we were slighted going back for some time when soe started changing the classes and abilities of the mobs.</p><p> </p><p>Take the run speed buff (temp and still non existant), keep the hate, and make the buff require that we have to be on top of the hate list and take dmg from a mobs melee or casted spell to remove the buff.  I dont think this is a bad compromise to the situation as you have presented it.</p>

[tim the so]

Devs, Two things:1). This proc adjustment is good news, and I'm glad to see something is being done to actively bring the DPS classes nearer one another. When considering sorc classes in the equation, we can do damage which is sort-of close to predators, and this change will surely close the gap further.  However are you looking at anything in the way of native hate reduction for sorcs?  At this point the hate reduction abilities for sorcs are effectively useless.  Consider that each other scout class (except maybe dirges?) has passive and active hate reduction abilities (not to mention haste and dps modifiers).  Consider also that sorc classes have no passive hate reduction skills, and the active hate reduction abilities (nullmail, frostmail, and concussive) are so out of line with the scout abilities that I wonder if the person responsible for their design was even aware of scout abilities.  Playing a level 60 warlock on raids, I can't go much above 450 dps without taking agro (without a bard).  Scouts on the same fight will do upwards of 900 dps and not take agro (without a bard).  This disparity is troubling. Is there any talk of such abilities--both passive and active--in the near future?  Hate reduction skills are essential to our ability to dps without taking agro and dying.2). The changes to the ring buffs are somewhat understandable, but you must realize that if you can't count on a buff to be active, then it is not a very worthwhile buff, and the proc method indeed renders several buffs potentially useless.  Take an intelligence buff.  One of the greatest effects of an int buff (for me) is the added max power.  I cast a spell, the buff procs, and I have more max power. In the middle of a fight this does very little good, since I am probably missing a significant portion of my power, and have few ways to increase my power while in combat.  Also: keep in mind that proc rates need to vary.  I cast far fewer spells than a tank is hit during battle, so his chance to proc a stamina buff would be much greater than my chance to proc and int buff. May I ask how it is that the buffs were infinitely stackable?  Is it not the case that you can only have two of these buffs active at a time?  If stacking two of the same buff is a problem, can't you just make it so only one instance of a buff can be active at a time?  I would much prefer this scenario than having my rings buffs proc.  I have spent good money on my rings, and for you to make them far less valuable without compensation is not very pleasing to the community, as was the case after LU13 when you took some masters I had scribed and completely removed them from the game.  Please Un-Attune these items when this change goes live. Thank you for reading, a response would be much appreciated. -Ammok, 60 Warlock.  Permafrost.<div></div>

[Code2501]

<div></div><div></div><p>MG,</p><p>Can you please tell us if the changes to the imbued Stamina ring is intended to be biased against Brawlers?</p><p>As it procs on damage taken mitigation tanks recieve a huge increase in proc chance over avoidance tanks. Now brawlers might not get hit often but they sure as heck get hit hard. As it stands now the imbued armor, and many buffs, proc more often on mitigation tanks, now your making it so another item is much less usefull to brawlers than other classes?</p><p>I could understand it if it was to compensate for higher proc rates on fast DW weapons, but you changed the combat system a while back to bring proc rates on fast DW weapons in line with slower two handers (though you now finaly admit that you messed up with CA procs). So our hasted 1.4 sec DW attacks theoreticaly proc at the same rate as a slow one or two hander... why oh why then do we have to be penalised with "on dmg taken" or "when hit" procs?</p><p>I'm interested to hear the rational as to why the development team feel that avoidance tanks deserve a much lower proc rate than mitigation tanks? On these new imbued rings, and anything else that procs "when hit" or "on dmg taken" for that matter.</p><p> </p><p>Thanks</p><p>Message Edited by Code2501 on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:26 PM</span></p>

[Erendil]

<div></div><div></div><p>So , lets see...</p><p>1. Casters solo better than rangers...only by a little bit before, obviously by quite a lot now. (Stuns will go off much less often, means we get hit and die, damage drops by about 40 to 45% from pre LU 19)</p><p>2. Casters provide utility to groups and raids that rangers dont. (Yes, we have evac, we have pathfinidng, we have a CA that lowers defense  and we can snare a mob and we can lower its hear/cold mitigation- None of these are such that anyone is going to feel the need to bring along a ranger to a raid)</p><p>3. We are now T3 damage. due to the changes on test.</p><p>4, We pay a LOT of money to do our T3 damage. in addition to poison, I pay a hell of a lot of money for arrows. Yes, I can summon arrows, but when I use 4k arrows plus in a day, I have to buy them. Oh wait, I cant solo anymore, means I wont have the money for arrows OR poisons anyway, whats that? t4 dps?</p><p>I'm sorry, remind me why groups and raids would want a ranger along? Why do I want to be a ranger? Why do I want to continue to play this game? You shouldnt count on friends in game being enough to keep all of us in the game through multiple disastrous combat revamps. Revamp 1.0 took all the fun out of my guard, now revamp 2.0 takes my ranger back to being painful to play.</p><p>I am going to cancel my KoS preorder until/unless this changes. I will also be working on convincing everyone in my guild and raid alliance to move on if this stays as it is.</p><p>Steadfast- 60 Ranger, ToxxuliaVentrous-55 Guardian retired, ToxxuliaGuild Leader- Gold and Glory</p><p>Message Edited by Erendil on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:04 PM</span></p>

[Dojoc]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard schrieb:<div></div>Balance testing new content ranges is always very revealing. When you take things up a tier, problems in the existing systems end up being magnified and rapidly come to the forefront. The Kingdom of Sky beta is no exception--over the course of KoS beta testing, a few issues came to the surface that we felt were important to address.First off, while creating the next series of imbued items, we noticed a problem with near-infinitely stackable stat buffs from imbued rings. We couldn't continue along with this progression, and decided that it was necessary to change the way imbued rings work.Imbued rings have been modified to be more focused on a single imbued stat. The benefits will also improve depending on the quality level of a crafted item, so you'll see the greatest stat benefit from pristine imbued rings. Additionally, we've made the stat enhancements for imbued rings have a chance to trigger on different events during combat: strength rings can trigger on successful melee attacks; agility rings can trigger on combat art usage; stamina rings can trigger on taking damage; wisdom rings can trigger when beneficial spells are cast; intelligence rings can trigger when offensive spells land.We also discovered some problems with the way procs trigger. As it stands on Live today, the longer the delay of your weapon, the more likely a proc will trigger. Sounds logical, of course, but we noticed one glaring issue: It also affects combat arts. No matter the speed of your weapon, you're able to fire off combat arts just as fast as the next character. Procs would trigger on these combat arts, and with slower weapons, they fire off significantly more often than with faster weapons.This is changing. We couldn't continue with procs working in this manner and make combat that was challenging enough for those who could take advantage of it without making creatures that were far too strong for the vast majority of classes.And finally, we've made a few changes to Brigands that some of you have already seen and provided feedback on. Before the change to Amazing Reflexes, this art could be used to grant permanent indirect AoE immunity. This had the effect of Brigands not needing to acquire diverse gear for resists and health because nothing touched them as long as they did not acquire aggro. This wasn't a matter of player skill so much as it was relying on a single extremely powerful ability.As of LU20, Amazing Reflexes will break for a short duration if the Brigand takes damage, so you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs. You can still avoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so, but Amazing Reflexes is no longer a get-out-of-jail-free card.Keep in mind that the way these changes function when they all make it to Live may be different than described here, and could even be adjusted further thereafter. However, I thought it would be a good idea to discuss what we're doing and why so you know we aren't just "nerfing" things for the fun of it. There's always a reason, and we think this will make the game more fun for everyone, especially in the long term. As always, your feedback is welcome, so feel free to provide it in a constructive manner here.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>You've forgoten to say that the dev team dont have any clou after 15 months of the gametime of eq2 how to balanced 24 classes and 5 dps tiers</p><p>iam finished with eq2</p><p>thank you</p>

[Ultharion]

Where are you chicken littles getting this "we are now T3 damage" from, out of curiosity? Is it just mindless hyperbole being blindly parrotted around, one chicken little saying it, and then the rest taking it up in chorus? Do you believe that not being in your own tier of damage, above all other damage dealers, and instead being brought more level to the other top dps professions equates to going to T3? I really don't get it. I've not seen any rational analysis of the effects of the changes that suggests such claims have even a shred of validity, only frothing at the mouth, knee-jerk reaction and wailing. I suppose it's to be expected, but still.. take a deep breath. And another.. And another... That's good. Ah well, not working. Back to the tantrums, diatribes, "I quit!" ultimatus and other such melodrama!

[Xibi]

<div>As a level 60 guardian, the ONLY way that we do dps is through the royal great flail and its procs.  If this is reduced, we'll end up doing dps on the scale of templars after LU 20.   I sure hope you guys put in the class switching quest that has been planned so we can become zerkers because we will be absolutely no fun to play unless we are the MT of high end raiding guilds.</div>

[Atrocity]

<font color="#6666ff">Blackguard wrote:</font><font color="#6666ff"></font><font color="#6666ff"></font><font color="#6666ff"></font><font color="#6666ff">And finally, we've made a few changes to Brigands that some of you have already seen and provided feedback on. Before the change to Amazing Reflexes, this art could be used to grant permanent indirect AoE immunity. This had the effect of Brigands not needing to acquire diverse gear for resists and health because nothing touched them as long as they did not acquire aggro. This wasn't a matter of player skill so much as it was relying on a single extremely powerful ability.</font><font color="#6666ff"></font> <font color="#6666ff"></font><font color="#6666ff">As of LU20, Amazing Reflexes will break for a short duration if the Brigand takes damage, so you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs. You can still avoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so, but Amazing Reflexes is no longer a get-out-of-jail-free card.</font><font color="#6666ff"></font><hr>Thanks for filling us in on the thinking behind changes to AR.  Many brigands have already posted excellent information on this thread and in the multiple threads in the brigand forum relating to issues with damage shields and manastones.  I won't rehash these very valid points except to add my agreement that damage shields and manastones should NOT break AR.I also have to take a small issue with the notion that ensuring that we did not draw agro had little to do with skill and everything to do with Amazing Reflexes.  This is just not true.  Any brigand who puts up Amazing Reflexes, runs up to a raid mobs, spams debuffs and CAs will be quickly dead.  In order for us to stay in the fight we HAVE to manage our agro by using our CAs that drop agro and keeping our damage low enough to not draw agro. If you don't believe me just try it out. There have been times when I've been over anxious to kill a boss or just not paid enough attention and have gotten myself killed very quickly because I was not using my CAs correctly.  (I know you are all shocked to hear this from me <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )  So, there is some skill involved in using AR the way it is live.  The skills are the need to understand your class, your ca's and to use them effectively.  Are there other "skills" required to play other classes that I'm overlooking?  AR is not a cloak of invulnerability were you can just put it on and then do whatever you want and never die. Finally, how much "skill" is involved in carying around a couple of bags of resist gear?  These guys are more skilled than me or just richer?  If I had known I would need this skill I would have held on to a lot more of the quest rewards that I sold along the way because they were sub-standard to the rest of my gear and I didn't have a need to cary multiple sets of resist gear.Vlademir Got'Nerfedps: The patch notes on beta indicate that AR will no longer increase agro and will provide a speed increase when it drops. Currently neither of these are true.  I applaud the move to tweak AR a bit more rather than having the initial beta changes go live as is.  If you can remove damage shields and manastones/vessels form the list of things that have it dropped I'll be happy to try it out in live and provide additional feedback.<div></div>

[Andu]

Just for a fleeting second I thought you were going to look at Templars then.Oh, and Guardians.Hmmm, Enchanters as well.You know, classes that have been miserable for 6 months, in the case of Enchanters since the game was released.Of course, I should have known better. Instead of making a large portion of your playerbase delighted you have instead opted for annoying a segment of players thet were pretty happy up until now.I accept that if things were needed to balance combat then they need to be done but I'm pretty sure you could have made positive changes elsewhere that would have offset this somewhat. I don't just mean with the classes above (but I think they are at the head of the queue). I'm pretty sure Rangers have other negative issues with their class that will now only be amplified since they have lost a lot of what it made their class to be fun.It's just common sense that if you are going to make someone swallow a bitter pill then you try your best to sweeten it somehow. A bunch of positive changes to Guardians, Templars, Enchanters and those classes effected by the nerf would really help bury the bad news and people wouldn't be reaching for the cancel subscription button.Instead, the nerf bat cometh. If I were a Summoner I'd seriously start worrying now - theres no-one left to hide behind now.<div></div>

[ZeroRavesOn]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Dtrick wrote:<div></div><blockquote><blockquote><blockquote><hr>ZeroRavesOn wrote:<div><span>Right now, you dont have to worry about AoE abilities at all.  Dirges, Troubadors, Assassins, Swashbucklers currently have to joust, whereas AR makes it such that you dont have to.  At worst, a mob with DS and you manastoneing, makes it such that brigands have to joust, like these other 4 scouts already have to do.The nerf (it is a definate nerf, no question there) brings brigands in line with the other scouts in having to worry about AE attacks, but not quite as much. This is something that should have happened in the DoF beta, not the KoS one.  Brigands still enjoy the best AE avoidance, but it is not the brokenness it was.</span></div><hr></blockquote>How is this bringing us in line when we have 1 ranged combat art that requires a pouch.  All of the classes that you mention that have to joust AoEs have more than 1 ranged combat art and can use a bow that procs.  Currently we are FORCED to use a pouch that does not proc and the stats are half of the rare bows.  Also, our 1 ranged combat art does about 600 dmg and has a 30 second recast.  How is this fair to Brigands?</blockquote></blockquote><hr></blockquote>All scouts have the one ranged combat art at 58 that is 2 strikes (all classes strikes do the same damage, master 1 for a dirge 183-305 for each strike) and a secondary effect, swashbucklers have only hail of steel as something of compensation to AR, which is most certainly not a fair tradeoff. Granted Bards have castable nukes as something, but that is certainly not able to make up for the extra damage potential of AR.  A single target nuke, an encounter wide nuke, a single target scream effect, and a encounter wide DoT.  During that time when I am running in or out, a brigand can continue autoattacking, continue casting CAs, etc.  Do I think bards and brigands should have the same damage - of course not.  I mention bards only as we have to deal with jousting as well to utilize our Combat Arts.  Do I think Swashbucklers and Brigands should have comparable damage output, however? Definately.Both are rogues, and while the archetype system of advancement has been abandoned, the spirit of it is something that remains in the game, and will likely remain for a long time.  Hell, even the Achievement system is bult around the class level of the Archetype system - the devs havent abandoned it fully.</span></div>

[Iseabeil]

<div>On the proc changes..</div><div>A singletarget attack with three attacks will only have one chance to proc.</div><div>How about AEs? In mutliple mob encounters this would be a huge change if I can only get poison to proc on one of the mobs.</div><div>How about Hurricane? There is no set timer nor set amount of procs on it, will it have a chance to proc AE wide or only once every time it triggers?</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[kyth]

   Wrath of Brigands! Really though the entire brigand community really wants a direct answer if the HP>PW conversion items and Damage Shields are supposed to be appart of this.  Seeing that in KoS Shadow Knight seems to be a popular NPC class its kind of tough to say "ok i cant use my best skill here"  how is that skill? Give us a definate answer here. If they are not supposed to be appart of this and that is going to change say so.  If they are going to be and we have to deal with it say so. <div></div>

[Ama]

<p> </p><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div><p>Balance testing new content ranges is always very revealing. When you take things up a tier, problems in the existing systems end up being magnified and rapidly come to the forefront. The Kingdom of Sky beta is no exception--over the course of KoS beta testing, a few issues came to the surface that we felt were important to address.First off, while creating the next series of imbued items, we noticed a problem with near-infinitely stackable stat buffs from imbued rings. We couldn't continue along with this progression, and decided that it was necessary to change the way imbued rings work.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Why couldn't the rings be fixed the way they were?  Couldn't you make a punishment system to where if too many imbued stats are equiped ring wise the buffs on them decrease by 5/10/25% increments? Allowing us who use maybe 1 or 2 ring imbued items to stay safe?  </font>Imbued rings have been modified to be more focused on a single imbued stat. The benefits will also improve depending on the quality level of a crafted item, so you'll see the greatest stat benefit from pristine imbued rings. Additionally, we've made the stat enhancements for imbued rings have a chance to trigger on different events during combat: strength rings can trigger on successful melee attacks; agility rings can trigger on combat art usage; stamina rings can trigger on taking damage; wisdom rings can trigger when beneficial spells are cast; intelligence rings can trigger when offensive spells land.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Although this seems nice it feels like it may still have the old problem.  This problem being the fabled junkies complaining that their fabled ring/jewelers isn't as good as or on par with imbued items.  I think that is the real issue that needs to be address IMHO.  The problem of people having 10+ fabled items and complaining their 1 or 2 items are beat out by crafted legendary gear. </font>We also discovered some problems with the way procs trigger. As it stands on Live today, the longer the delay of your weapon, the more likely a proc will trigger. Sounds logical, of course, but we noticed one glaring issue: It also affects combat arts. No matter the speed of your weapon, you're able to fire off combat arts just as fast as the next character. Procs would trigger on these combat arts, and with slower weapons, they fire off significantly more often than with faster weapons.</p><p>This is changing. We couldn't continue with procs working in this manner and make combat that was challenging enough for those who could take advantage of it without making creatures that were far too strong for the vast majority of classes.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">This unfortunately i'm not too happy about but can be easily fixed if combat arts would made null and void on the effect of procs.  What I mean by this is that if you use a combat art it negates the weapons proc bypassing it then after the time the combat art has ceased the proc resuems itself.  The only combat arts that would be void of this would be buffs since they are pure augmentations and not spells/abilities that you can continously cast on an enemy to do damage. </font>And finally, we've made a few changes to Brigands that some of you have already seen and provided feedback on. Before the change to Amazing Reflexes, this art could be used to grant permanent indirect AoE immunity. This had the effect of Brigands not needing to acquire diverse gear for resists and health because nothing touched them as long as they did not acquire aggro. This wasn't a matter of player skill so much as it was relying on a single extremely powerful ability.As of LU20, Amazing Reflexes will break for a short duration if the Brigand takes damage, so you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs. You can still avoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so, but Amazing Reflexes is no longer a get-out-of-jail-free card.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Unfortunately I do not play the brigand class so I cannot comment or make judgement on this change as good or bad.  </font>Keep in mind that the way these changes function when they all make it to Live may be different than described here, and could even be adjusted further thereafter. However, I thought it would be a good idea to discuss what we're doing and why so you know we aren't just "nerfing" things for the fun of it. There's always a reason, and we think this will make the game more fun for everyone, especially in the long term. As always, your feedback is welcome, so feel free to provide it in a constructive manner here.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Sadly I would call the two parts above nerfing because the system is being completely changed instead of re worked.  The ring system before was great because you had to switch on the item, everyone loved the newer always on buff aswell.  Now it seems that the 2 good ideas are thrown out for this "Snazier" one where it procs for each type of "Situation" as claimed.  As for weapon procing well I use an imbued ebon longsword with my SK and love when it goes off.  Sadly this is few and far between even using combat arts alongside my sword.  The only time I can get atelast a 50% chance of it procing is when I face a group of enemies and use my AoE melee attack.  Even then it is a 50/50 shot of working. </font></p><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>My concern for the game I love is increasing every day with changes such as these.  I approach each and every "Innovation" "Update" and "Exciting Feature" with caution.  I was hurt by SWG and left that game coming to hear.  Please devs I beg you don't make this a "Fool me once Shame on you Fool me twice shame on me" scenario where SoE has tricked me 2 times.  I have some faith in EQ2's future but right now unless KoS does some great things I think its future its quite dim.  :smileysad:</p><p> </p>

[TheGodli]

<div></div><p>There is just one thing about soe that makes ppl [Removed for Content]. Instead of making other classes better, and mobs tougher, we NERF. Did it ever occur to you why so many ppl quit?</p><p>If my poisons and the likes arent gonna proc with my bow. Im gonna do 30%+ less dps, and thereby be useless to any raid as whatever buffs-debuffs i have are crap. And secondly i cant solo effectively anymore in any way. And i do like to solo, looks like im gonna have to find  different game then eh? cause u guys dont want ppl to do what they want, but to do what you feel is best. How many nerfs and new adaptions to my way of playing am i gonna have to take? not much more, that is for sure.</p>

[Nerj]

<div></div><div></div>The problem is that SOE "fixes" things that affect the MOBs first. Those things that affect the <strike>payers</strike> players last. Many fixes to my chosen profession are still outstanding. If it wasn't for a near revolt by the Enchanters we would still be waiting for some balance. Continue to balance just balance fairly and across the board.<p>Message Edited by Nerjin on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:18 AM</span></p>

[Gungo]

<div></div>How will the new spell haste and normal haste effect procs now?

[Varl]

<div></div>The problem with the rings all being changed to procs, especially WIS and STA is that the procs will have ZERO actualy beneficial effect.  The point of having more points is to raise your mana pool and hp pool, or to do more dammage.  More STR and INT achieve this and AGI goes to avoidance, so a burst on those stats will help spell/poison/CA damage or avoidance.  But for classes like Tanks and Priests, the most commonly worn rings for those classes, STA and WIS, will do absolutly nothing.  the stat increases static pool size, but one you increase the stat AFTER points have been used from the pool all it does is move the cap.  it DOES NOT add more points.  And, other than pool, Wisdom does absolutly nothing for priests.  There may be some ancilary benefits for the procs, but, for those kinds of classes, who really cares.  Procs almost never go off as it is, so why spend all the points on an imbued ring?  They were fine they way they were b4 teh stat was made permanent.

[AfflictedOne]

The big question I wonder about.  When is the stat cap bug going to be fixed?  You know the one where you have to increase you damage stat by 7 every level to do the same damage with spells/arts as the level before? I understand that spells/arts have to cap somewhere.  But this is the most insane mechanic I've seen in any game.  You level and do less damage.<div></div>

[TalenMorg]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Ultharion wrote:Where are you chicken littles getting this "we are now T3 damage" from, out of curiosity? Is it just mindless hyperbole being blindly parrotted around, one chicken little saying it, and then the rest taking it up in chorus? Do you believe that not being in your own tier of damage, above all other damage dealers, and instead being brought more level to the other top dps professions equates to going to T3? I really don't get it. I've not seen any rational analysis of the effects of the changes that suggests such claims have even a shred of validity, only frothing at the mouth, knee-jerk reaction and wailing. I suppose it's to be expected, but still.. take a deep breath. And another.. And another... That's good. Ah well, not working. Back to the tantrums, diatribes, "I quit!" ultimatus and other such melodrama!<hr></blockquote>There are rangers on beta lvl 70 with legendary/fabled gear full AA's and master 1's.....they are parsing at 600 dps......thats an Ideal set up ranger....considering most rangers wont be set up as well that will be diminished to about 500dps.You don't get it because you don't play a ranger....procs are everything........oh and we get to pay to have that kind of DPS as well......balanced indeed.</span></div>

[MabortKilmodar]

I do not feel that I know enough information about the AR changes to comment on them, so I will refrain from doing so. However, I think I understand what is happening to weapon proc changes, and I have quite a few things to say about that.I will rehash a bit here to make sure that I am understanding 1) the changes that are proposed (better stated that they are going in and are subject to future review), and 2) the problems that people are having with the proposed changes. I will not use quotes here, but more of my understanding, but trust me – I’ve read the thread thoroughly.The proposed change seems to be stating that all weapon procs are no longer going to be able to proc on every hit of combat arts (CAs) that have multiple hits. The reasoning, from what I can gather, is two fold: first off, they don’t want multiple procs on a single CA; and secondly, they are trying to balance the scout classes’ (particularly rangers) DPS to be more in line with the DPS that is done by casters of equivalent level. Perhaps the first aspect is just a means of bring about the ends of the second aspect (quite probable).The complaint is that it seems that the change will severely affect these classes more than what people think was intended. Simply put, the CAs that these classes used provided so many more attempts to proc via multiple hits that removing the ability to proc on ALL of the multiple hits will potentially put their DPS not only below the caster DPS of equivalent level, but well below it – so much so that they will not be desirable for most adventuring (potentially not at all). Now I also understand that there are people who have issues with this impending update just because they feel that there was nothing wrong to begin with. I am not sure I can agree with this position, though, as it seems that the content that has been design was designed with the damage output that is more inline with the DPS of casters and not with the DPS of the classes in question. If it is the case that content has been designed with this in mind (that being the DPS potential of current (pre-LU20) rangers and the like), then this content also needs an overhaul to come inline with the changes (but that being said I still have never seen a raid group of a tank, a couple healers and the rest rangers).Now if I have not given a generalization of the issues at hand that you agree with, then I encourage you to give me some feedback on this, as I am just one person, and cannot know everything – that is to say that I do not want someone to flame me on this because I am unaware of other considerations, but would rather be educated on other points of view.Now my opinion on this situation is kind of funny. Being a game designer and programmer myself, I understand the desirability of such changes – those being general changes that fix things that do not require tons and tons of smaller changes over hundreds of thousands of lines of code. To get very specific, you need a careful attention to ALL aspects of the game in which a minor change to one area could produce undesirable effects in many other areas. So a general change, such as changing how a system works – as is the case with procs in this situation, is usually the less intensive route (at most it might require a lot of find/replace in the code – but that could even be automated). However, that is not to say that I understand how this change was implemented. It could be the case that they did hardcode for each individual skill that they were wanting to change – I assume that the system works on generic damage routines in which all skills/spells will call, there-in providing a way of trapping what kind of hit each particular hit is through different variables passed in the function’s arguments. This easily opens up the opportunity for adding different types of hits, so what was probably before just a CA hit type is not CA primary hit type and CA subsequent hit type, one which can invoke the proc routine, and one which cannot invoke it. This just requires going into each skill/spell function and changing the damage function call to account for the update; moderately tedious, but for the amount that these people get paid, and especially their passion for games, there is nothing wrong with the work load for this type of update.So I can see it from both sides on the design and programming aspect. What the issue at hand here is: Is the change too much? I think in any serious sense, to answer that question you need to do some empirical research, better known as play testing. But we can look at the different aspects of the potential answers to that question. I think the easiest answer would be NO. If it is the case that it is not too much, then all the worrying is moot. The DPS of the classes in question will be balanced with the DPS of the casters, which is what seems to be the desired effect. Of course people will still be upset, as is always the case when someone likes something the way it is no matter if it is unbalanced or not, but I do not think this game is going to cater to those peoples (at least I hope it will not). Of course, just to remind you of what I think the designers are getting at in terms of DPS balance is: a certain damage output they are expecting to be done to complete the content of equivalent level in the time they think is reasonable for it to be done. Here will be the issue between players and designers: what is reasonable to a designer might not be the same for a player. Voice your opinion if you think it is unreasonable, but, in the end, it is still the designer’s choice. The only leverage you have is with your dollars, but that only goes so far. While this is a bit off topic, I think it is something that people do not realize, or at least think is more of a scare tactic, that a video game company usually will kill a game before they let the game be taken in a direction that they refuse to take it in (usually based on their principles), even if it is the only way that players will pay for it. Most of the time it will take an entirely new design team to come in and make huge revamps that goes against the original designers’ conceptions. And if a company is not willing to do that, then either the players become inured to the situation, or the game dies.Back on topic again, another answer to that question would be YES. Now this one is not quite as simple. If it is too much of a change, then how is it too much of a change? I do not think it really is enough to just say yes it is too much and please change it back to the way that it was. It needs to be analyzed: should some CAs have the ability to proc on multiple hits? – should the proc damage be adjusted to account for this? – perhaps the whole proc system needs trashed and redone to begin with? It really boils down to empirical data on this aspect. You cannot say that it is too much without first having data support that claim, and then only with that data you could figure out what exactly is the disparity and adjust accordingly.Now as a note to the designers, I think it is important not to ignore the complaints in this forum or other forums. While I can understand the tendency to write off player complaints as whining and ignorance (god knows I’ve done it in the past), you should at least do some tests to see how significant the change is going to be. I’m not saying that you are not going to do that. You would not be where you are at now if you were not competent game designers, and as such, this sort of thing is standard procedure. But a little reminder every now and then never hurt anyone. Just make sure that the balance that this is going to give us is the kind of balance that you are expecting it to give us. That it does take it more inline with casters DPS (if that is what you are wanting), and that the damage reduction doesn’t make content unplayable (like will the Djinn Master still be beatable with this kind of damage reduction?).I was thinking about giving my personal suggestion on how to revamp the whole proc system, but I’ll save that for another time, considering this is already quite lengthy. Just as a note, it involves adding the proc flags to the weapons instead of the players.Anyways, that’s all I have to say for the time being. Any comments, questions, concerns?

[pedigr]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div>No. The line in BG's post means that the non-imbued stat rings get better as they increase in quality level. The biggest benefit comes from the pristine imbued rings, but those aren't the only ones changing in LU20.<hr></blockquote>Are wis rings still going to proc Wis+[random number]?  Because if they do, its the most stupid thing done - Priests NEED the WIS upfront.  A wis+ proc after youve cast your first heal is utterly pointless.</span></div>

[NemaLVey]

<div></div><p>Oh noes, Brigands dont need resist gear... really?  I can name 7 other classes that dont need resist gear that stand out of AoE range and are fully functional and do thier jobs effectively.  Another 9 that possibly need resist gear.  Please.</p><p>Atleast upgrade our friken taunt so we can "Skillfully" dispell damage shields, while "skillfully" not draw aggro.</p><p>As it stands now, your gonna drop Brigands from t2 dps to t3 in one swoop on raids, or less!  WTG!  Yeah I wont have to worry bout "skillfully" watching my aggro much after theses changes, cuz I wont do enuff DPS/Debuffing to warrant the raid target aggro.  PFFT.</p><p>Hurt?  Upset? Mad? Yes, cuz this is just K rap!</p>

[Code2501]

<div></div><p>Is it too much to ask why the Devs feel avoidance tanks deserve less procs than mitigation tanks? (see my previous post)</p><p>Do you not have an answer? Does that mean its not working as intended???</p>

[Strifex]

<div><p>Exactly my point, the speed boost thingy totally misses the issue.  The heart of the issue is, as AR stands now, we are balanced and it compliments what a Brigand is designed to do.  Instead, they take it away and suppliment it with an "ahhh... run away again!!" skill like in monty pythons' movie The Holy Grail.  With the timers on AE's there is no way a Brigand can use over 30-40% of his classes CA's becuase he is constantly jousting in and out of combat and they are tied to close combat range with short durations.  Ohh, and if I use my manastone I must "ahhh..  run away" once again.  It is almost as if SOE is saying "we must do something to the Brigand, anything, just do something!!"  the reply might have been something like "but sir, we spent a lot of time with LU13 getting their class right where it should be" to which the reply could have been  "It does not have to make sense son, just swing that bat, we will figure it out later."</p><p>I wonder where, or if, there is a well thought out vision in fine tuning the classes of EQ to provide balance and support game mechanics with respect to overall game play as well as individual class design.  This latest swinging of the bat is completely contradictory to a strategic vision that provides that to EQ.  A Brigand is designed to debuff the mob at close range and close range only.  Brigands have no ranged CA's (except flashy throw, a long recast and short ranged CA).  Their ranged attacks have nothing associated with them.  In addition Brigands only have one mediocre AE CA, of which has a long recast timer.  All that is fine with me because at the heart of the Brigand, staying in close combat and debuffing the mob is what we are designed to do.   The customers who play Brigands clearly understand that and it amazes me that SOE, despite our input, is crippling our ability to do our job.  And for what reason?  as it currently stands, staying in close combat and debuffing the mob, we are comfortably behind Predators in DPS.  AR does not give Brigands some unbalancing advantage over everyone else, all it does is allow us to do our job debuffing the mob for the raid force and provide Tier 2 DPS like we are designed to do.  +12% hate gain is already a huge counter balance to the skill because it forces a calculated pace in our application process of providing those debuffs.  Add the +12% hate gain to the fact that is we do not exercise the proper skill in applying those debuffs we will draw aggro which will (1) draw the mobs AE, (2) take aggro from the MT/MA which risks the success of the raid, (3) more than likely send the Brigand to his death.  Raid mobs hit tremendously hard, well beyond the capability for a Brigand to withstand.  The majority of the time, when I take aggro I die in in 1 or 2 hits, Brigands are just not designed to take those kind of hits.  So what good does an increased run speed provide when I am dead for not managing aggro?  I never use the Ruse line in a raid for that exact same reason, I cannot survive the hit from the raid mob to trigger the damage of the CA, and I should not be taking aggro from the MT/MA.  The issue with this nerf, and the senslessness it represents, as so many of us have pointed out is the issue with mob damage shields and the use of manastones and Vessels of Fry'Un.  AR is not broken, just like it was not broken clear back at LU13.  <strong>It is a well designed CA enabling the Brigand to apply his class defining responsibilities of debuffing the mob at close combat range</strong>.  <strong>However, as I pointed out earlier, if SOE just has to "it does not have to make sense son, just swing that bat" then they ought to not make damage shields and manastone/Fry'Un cancel AR</strong>.</p></div>

[MexStrat]

<div></div><div></div>Edited by poster for a major overreaction.....<p>Message Edited by MexStrat on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:23 PM</span></p>

[Dremi]

Did SOE move those wonderful devs from SWG to EQ2? Just wondering SOE.Here is a new idea for SOE that Blizzard practices:Fix the class that needs updating( the word "updating" is the key) vs. nerfing the paying players( SOE's idea of a fix to make players less DPS etc.. thus keeping MOBS harder trying to create a longer exp trip thus trying to suck more cash out of us by making the game longer to level).1. Revert rings back to prior LU19.2. Leave the players classes alone unless you are going to fix a real issue. I mean fix and not nerf.You would think since EQ2's players base is *low( as compared to MILLIONS who play WoW) that SOE would learn something from Blizzard.*server merges- sorry SOE but I don't believe you concerning why you are merging servers. That bird will not fly. Server merger = population problems that = low over all player base.As a paying customer I would like some answers from SOE. If not then I'll take my $21.99 a month away from SOE.I kinda feel like I'm playing DAOC again. I had three accounts in DAOC and because of Mythic's nerfs they stopped getting my cash.Don't flame me for bringing up WoW. SOE NEEDS to be reminded of the beating that WoW is giving them in player base. I do this in hopes that SOE will see their own faults and truly do things right for once. If SOE keeps this up then what kind of a player base will we have in a year? I really enjoy EQ2 far more than WoW but EQ2 is becoming "Mythic like" and I fear another SWG screw up. Say what you want about WoW being easy etc.... but WoW has how many MILLION paying players vs. SOE? The money talks except when it comes to SOE actually doing what the majority of players want out of EQ2.Sorry if this seems like a rant but I hate seeing a game as good as EQ2 being riuned by hard headed Dev's who clearly care nothing about thier boss: the paying $$$$$$ player!

[Rhianni]

<div>Its bad enough SOE that it takes you close to a year to 'discover' how much more the imbued stat rings are over others.  Whats really bad is how many different times you have to change it.  I find it hard to believe that when increasing in tiers you find out things about previous tiers and just know are discovering the things that your players have known for a very long time. </div>

[Golbezz]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div>And finally, we've made a few changes to Brigands that some of you have already seen and provided feedback on. Before the change to Amazing Reflexes, this art could be used to grant permanent indirect AoE immunity. This had the effect of Brigands not needing to acquire diverse gear for resists and health because nothing touched them as long as they did not acquire aggro. This wasn't a matter of player skill so much as it was relying on a single extremely powerful ability.As of LU20, Amazing Reflexes will break for a short duration if the Brigand takes damage, so you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs. You can still avoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so, but Amazing Reflexes is no longer a get-out-of-jail-free card.<hr></blockquote><p><font color="#0099ff">The change to AR should really only use spell, combat art or melee damage from an enemy encounter to break AR. Player triggered items that transfer health to power certainly should not break the effect of AR unless you plan to make them break the class defining buff for EVERY other class to BALANCE things. Damage shields really should not drop AR since they already hit the brigands currently until they are removed.</font></p><p><font color="#0099ff">I can't help but think SoE just caved in to the demands of other close range melee classes that were complaining about AR. Sorta like what happened with the crusader horses last year where SoE gave in to the whining from people about the PAL and SHD getting a 32% horse for 14silver.</font></p><p><font color="#0099ff">Guess what Assassins, Swashbucklers and other classes that complained about AR:  When we aren't in there debuffing right before you guys run in, that means your DPS goes down as well. Complaining about brigands gets not only them nerfed, but every other DPS class indirectly gets nerfed as a result in AE raid encounters if a damage shield is present until it can be removed.</font></p><p><font color="#0099ff">The only positive change here might be an end to people making brigand alts, maybe they will just make rangers instead since they can be totally AE immune all the time and never need resist gear if they stay out of range. Sounds like a double standard there SoE, looks like you better push up the AE radius to be greater than the range of any bow so rangers too can worry about resist gear, potions and AE's.</font></p><p><font color="#0099ff"></font> </p><p><font color="#0099ff">I do find it a bit offensive that people think running with a constant hate INCREASE that made us immune to AE's required no skill. Staying in the whole time means an unskilled brigand is going to pull aggro and die. Relying on the AR ability won't do a thing to prevent this and you guys know it, yet due to obvious complaints from other classes who see only the AE immunity side they call for a nerf and it was done to keep the greater numbers happy. I'm sure they will be even more thrilled to find their DPS has decreased as a result of the change to brigands. In the cases of the people who complained about AR asking for a nerf on it, the indirect nerf on them will be deserved.</font></p><p><font color="#0099ff">Be careful what you guys complain about next time, the nerfs sometimes hit more than their intended target.</font></p>

[K3mik4l]

Uhm... about them proc changes. I don't know if it's completely off topic but I have never (and I do mean never) seen Dirge's Tombs buff line proc during Cacophony of Baldes. Gleaming Strike and Prismatic Shard seem to proc sometimes during the time CoB is up, Tomb's line does not. What's up with that?Oh, and the fact that the spell says every melee attack will inflict additional disease damage is just soo wrong, only half (when dual wielding) melee strikes are granted additional disease damage. Working as intended or is the intended version of CoB meant to add disease damage to offhand weapon aswell?Besides, the typo (Caco<b>hp</b>ony of Blades) has been there for an eternity, hasn't it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Other than that, I've seen Tomb's actually proc notably in beta with fast weapons (1.2 sec delay) not only with some slow ones (leafblades), so the buff is worth something again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Giral]

<div> </div><div> Let's Talk about Shadowknight's</div><div> </div><div>low hp/low power    High power consumption  slow power regain (with great drink and Totem of monkey)</div><div> </div><div>Hienous Blessing (proc's) for heal's " Extremely"  interuptable 2.0 sec cast (more like 3.5) fizzles even mastered and Out leveled</div><div> </div><div>Tap Vien's (lifetap) 2.0 sec cast time (more like 3,0) Highly interuptable</div><div> </div><div>Tuant's (over time) worst tuant's ingame</div><div> </div><div>need stat's : Strenght/Wisdom/Intell/Stamina</div><div> </div><div>Ranged Item ? NONE</div><div> </div><div>Couple spells cast when moving ? Not anymore</div><div> </div><div>Dp's ? underpowered especially in Offensive 1h and shield . An agro tool? i think not</div><div> </div><div>Raid Function ? Not needed BUT if taken can grant Armour to MT  ( LoL)</div><div> </div><div>Dueling Can lose to many classes Brigand, Berzerker,Assasin,Ranger, Coercer,Illusionist, Palladin</div><div> </div><div>Dueling after These changes go live? lol Removed our range spells when moving and Nerfed our proc's on Heinous blessing You do the mAth</div><div> </div><div>AA's ? lol Tree was Made up for Paladin's Sk's get slopy second's</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Sk's posting problem's Since re-vamp , and Nerf to tuants with UL16 back in NOV ,  Thread after Thread after Thread about Shadwoknight's And what do we get for Month's and Month's of No replies?</div><div> </div><div>More NErf's ? nerf our cast and Move ? how build agro ? with THOSe crumby Tuant over time and LOW hp's to save us on the run back to group? when build agro ? when the healer is trying to save our life? Nerf our Heinous blessing Good Grief,</div><div> </div><div>only thing Sk's was good for was Soloing That just got NErfed SO what is Left  for Shadowknight's ?</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> Where are Shadowknight Fixes?</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>why month's and month's of nothing and now NErf's i see people freaking over ring's AND immediate responses and changes : (</div><div> </div><div>i see someone in this thread complaining SK's ability breaks there stance ? don't worry THAT will get Nerfed Also , they NEVER fix anything for SK's they Take Take Take , 10 month's for combat  re-vamp NO fixes for sk's.  Now 5 month's after they start Nerfing us again and never never gave us any fixes : (     1 and 1/2 years casting a couple spells when moving NERFED ? right befor Pvp thanks :smileysad:</div><div> </div>

[Chefren]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>K3mik4l wrote:Uhm... about them proc changes. I don't know if it's completely off topic but I have never (and I do mean never) seen Dirge's Tombs buff line proc during Cacophony of Baldes. Gleaming Strike and Prismatic Shard seem to proc sometimes during the time CoB is up, Tomb's line does not. What's up with that?<hr></blockquote>Tomb sucks. Really. Use somthing else instead. They will have to rework it completely or just remove it from the game.</span></div>

[Taraxus]

<blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div>BFirst off, while creating the next series of imbued items, we noticed aproblem with near-infinitely stackable stat buffs from imbued rings. Wecouldn't continue along with this progression, and decided that it wasnecessary to change the way imbued rings work.Imbued rings have been modified to be more focused on a single imbuedstat. The benefits will also improve depending on the quality level ofa crafted item, so you'll see the greatest stat benefit from pristineimbued rings. Additionally, we've made the stat enhancements for imbuedrings have a chance to trigger on different events during combat:strength rings can trigger on successful melee attacks; agility ringscan trigger on combat art usage; stamina rings can trigger on takingdamage; wisdom rings can trigger when beneficial spells are cast;intelligence rings can trigger when offensive spells land.We also discovered some problems with the way procs trigger. As itstands on Live today, the longer the delay of your weapon, the morelikely a proc will trigger. Sounds logical, of course, but we noticedone glaring issue: It also affects combat arts. No matter the speed ofyour weapon, you're able to fire off combat arts just as fast as thenext character. Procs would trigger on these combat arts, and withslower weapons, they fire off significantly more often than with fasterweapons.This is changing. We couldn't continue with procs working in thismanner and make combat that was challenging enough for those who couldtake advantage of it without making creatures that were far too strongfor the vast majority of classes.And finally, we've made a few changes to Brigands that some of you havealready seen and provided feedback on. Before the change to AmazingReflexes, this art could be used to grant permanent indirect AoEimmunity. This had the effect of Brigands not needing to acquirediverse gear for resists and health because nothing touched them aslong as they did not acquire aggro. This wasn't a matter of playerskill so much as it was relying on a single extremely powerful ability.As of LU20, Amazing Reflexes will break for a short duration if theBrigand takes damage, so you'll need to be careful about your targetsand aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs. You can stillavoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so, but AmazingReflexes is no longer a get-out-of-jail-free card.Keep in mind that the way these changes function when they all make itto Live may be different than described here, and could even beadjusted further thereafter. However, I thought it would be a good ideato discuss what we're doing and why so you know we aren't just"nerfing" things for the fun of it. There's always a reason, and wethink this will make the game more fun for everyone, especially in thelong term. As always, your feedback is welcome, so feel free to provideit in a constructive manner here.<div></div><hr></blockquote>You need several months to realize what you have implemented ? Amazing Reflexes for example was always powerful and if you dont wont the Brigs to have such a good skill why did you put it live ? And why did you nerf it after such a long period of time ? Better spend more hours to think about the "mighty" buffs before releaseing it shouldnt you ? Maybe most Brigs already sold their Resi-Gear ?? Or maybe they dont bought themself resi-gear on whole T6 raids and have them bought by classes who really need it ?You the Devs (as 1 billion times wrote in the formuns and thread you dont read) had nothing learned from EQ1 OR the time EQ2 was released.Sorry its just my tiny opinion.Have phun out there

[zonedbob]

<div></div><p>And no-one's mentioned Defilers yet. Our main group ward is not getting an upgrade - so our best spell is still gonna be a level 56 one when we hit 70. One of our forum posters thought this was an "oversight which will be corrected" but I'm not seeing any love yet.</p><p>And our level 65 AoE spell is fluff compared to the powerful buff the mystics are getting then.</p><p>Are all these balance problems arising because the test server is underpopulated or unrepresentative? I've never played on it, so I don't know, but it doesn't seem to have been running the beta for all that long.</p>

[Niende]

<div></div><p>Please fix Unamazing reflexes so that it does not fall off due to damage shields, manastone, vessel, etc.</p><p>My debuffs requires me to be in melee range. I only have one poor ranged attack. You obviously do not intend brigands to be one of the many classes that stands outside of AOEs and chucks spells pets and arrows at the mob. (You still have not balanced pouches and satchels to be at all equal in stats to bows, and have not put Tier6 throwing weapons on any vendors, we still have to use fulginate throwing weapons.)</p><p>If you do not fix Unamazing Reflexes my guild would be better off bringing another class along to the raid because I will no longer be able to do my job effectively for many fights: (Continuously Debuffing the Mob with melee attacks). Many of my debuffs last just 10 - 20 seconds and there is simply no way I can use even half of my debuffs while jousting with this new Unamazing Reflexes.</p><p>Why design a class that has lots of short duration melee debuff attacks and then ruin their only ability that allows them to use them fully on raids? This nerf is swinging the pendulum way too far, and the brigands were barely played Before the nerf due to mediocre DPS and debuff caps.</p>

[Tro]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Trook wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><p>Hi Blackguard. I was wondering if you could please comment on the HP/Power/AC nerf of the Conjurer and Necro pets that occurred during LU19. I won't go into details as there are several posts on it..</p><p>Can you just speak to this please and answer these questions:</p><p>1. Was it intentional or not?</p><p>2. If non intentional, can we get an idea as to when it will be corrected?</p><p>3. If it was intentional, can we get a  reason as to why you all felt this was necessary?</p><p>I feel (As do many others) this was a result of the NPC HP nerf that was advertised in the LU19 notes. Did the PC Pets inadvertently get this change also?     </p></blockquote><p>Many are very upset that we have seen nothing from the Devs/game designers on this issue as of yet..</p><p>Appreciate it..</p><p>Message Edited by Trook on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:20 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>So I take it Neither Moorgard or Blackgard wish to address these questions..</p><p>I often wonder why is it that when a Dev starts a post that will surely get peoples attention and bring out alot of questions/concerns.. we get maybe one or two replies out of like 4 pages? I know Blackgard posted on a couple specific issues but why not give a status on all the stuff they are currently working to resolve (The more serious issues). -or-</p><p>Wouldn't it be nice to have a forum where a SoE Community Manager could have it as part of their job to just read these boards and at the very least bring our concerns to a dev or game designer and then come back and reply with some updated info..</p><p>The benefits are endless.. The SoE folks get a better rep WRT CS, the paying customers are happy they are getting their concerns addressed and have an open line of communication with the folks that actually design the game.</p><p>To me, if I got a reply saying that the devs are aware of this and expect a fix in the near future or that was intended or oopps they goofed and it will be corrected..</p><p>Just short siimple answers like that is all I would like at a minimum..</p><p>Wouldn't it be nice?</p><p>As it  stands right now, a dev starts a post, folks see it and flock to it to post other concers because there was a "rare" dev/game designer sighting in hopes of several replies as a kind of "Status of the game" conversation on various issues. Instead we get little to no communication and the distinct impression they are ignoring us.. I know they read this post (All 4 pages) but we still get snuffed.</p><p>It's a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] shame</p><p>Message Edited by Trook on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:02 AM</span></p>

[Kaiser Sigma]

<div></div><div></div><div>First of all, I play an assassin. I have no alts, so all I know from classes comes from my experience during raids.</div><div> </div><div>In regards to Brigands.. whoever thinks this fix to Amazing Reflexes is well deserved either: Puts the need of measuring his/her e-pen0s (aka dps on a parser) before the needs of his/her raid or knows crap about raiding. In any case the common denominator is, whoever thinks like that is not a teamplayer.</div><div> </div><div>Brigands are, sorry were, ae immune.. to what end? To benefit the raid with their debuffs. They weren't avoiding agro so they can score 1k-1.5k like summoners / rangers in fact brigands (the ones I've raided with) are on the 450-750 dps range.</div><div> </div><div>Just like the bow proc nerf, sorry fix, if you want to "fix" something give us a good  reason for it. The "not fair they don't have to care about resist stuff" argument doesn't hold any water when you take into account that all t1-t2 dps classes, with the exception of Assassins and Swashbucklers, fight ranged and are never have to worry about aes.</div><div> </div><div>Skill? Any dps class with at least one foot on Earth knows that aggro management is all about skills, Brigands were running around with a death sentence since AR was an aggro amplifier. If you don't consider that fighting a lvl 65+ epic mob with an aggro leash while at the same time meeting the demands of a raid to debuffs resistances and do a job as a t2 dps isn't about skills then I would like to know why sending pets, nuking like hell or sitting back and blasting stuff with a bow is.</div><div> </div><div>But I'll leave the brigands issue at that. In regards to the proc "fix".. I said nothing with the bow proc "fix" even though it made  one of my few "ranged" CAs even more useless than it already was (the only reason to use Assailing Blast was to keep your fingers crossed that procs would trigger with the 2 puny shots of 350-500 at Master I). I let Rangers cry foul because they'd feel the change more, true..</div><div> </div><div>But this upcoming change will diminish Assassins' (as well as rogues') dps even more. Perhaps not nearly as much as the dps of a ranger but it will still affect us. Rangers were "overpowered" fine.. what's the excuse to bring Assassins' dps down? We aren't t1 dps unless we have a coercer, dirge and someone buffing our str to the max.. and even then I still have issues reaching t1 dps. Moreover, I'll have more luck spawning Arazul, Hand of the Godking than getting that set up on my group since no one sees as a priority to buff one class so they can do the damage they were supposed to do on their own. And personally I think they are right on that judgement.</div><div> </div><div>So since we use big words like balance and stuff, that's my question to the devs. You wanted to "fix" Rangers' dps, I got that part. Now, why "fixing" the dps of the other melees classes as well? That bit I didn't get.</div><p>Message Edited by Kaiser Sigma on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:27 AM</span></p>

[swol]

<div></div><p>about procs ...</p><p>I play a 55 ranger with no uber gear (a few pieces of cobalt and a legendary bow) and I like this char. It deals nice damage to my point of view. Nothing insane but if i spend enough on poisons i can be deadly.  (I cannot afford the most expensive poisons so i most often stick with T5 poisons) I am not doing twice the damage of a wizard however.</p><p>I am more than worried with the changes incoming.</p><p> </p><p>Will the new proc value take into account the casting time of a CA ? And maybe a part of its recast time? Because this is the true dealy of CA.</p><p>Also as CAs are considered like normal attacks regarding procs why should they proc only for the first hit ?</p><p> </p><p>Maybe on T7, high end rangers with high end equipement can reach those 4000 DPS. And that is certainely too much.But the change on test seems to affect with the same proportion, every ranger at every level and with every kind of gear. (i wont mention those that dont use poisons ...)Have you considered the impact of T7 uber gear and poisons on the DPS?</p><p>To be more clear. You remove 50 or 60% DPS of high end T7 rangers. ... It seems to remove 50% or 60% DPS to all the rangers.  Is this true and intended  because not all ragers are doing 3 times more damage than other classes...</p><p>Maybe the correction should be applied elsewhere. Or maybe the is some adjustement to be done.</p>

[Tro]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Trook wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Trook wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><p>Hi Blackguard. I was wondering if you could please comment on the HP/Power/AC nerf of the Conjurer and Necro pets that occurred during LU19. I won't go into details as there are several posts on it..</p><p>Can you just speak to this please and answer these questions:</p><p>1. Was it intentional or not?</p><p>2. If non intentional, can we get an idea as to when it will be corrected?</p><p>3. If it was intentional, can we get a  reason as to why you all felt this was necessary?</p><p>I feel (As do many others) this was a result of the NPC HP nerf that was advertised in the LU19 notes. Did the PC Pets inadvertently get this change also?     </p></blockquote><p>Many are very upset that we have seen nothing from the Devs/game designers on this issue as of yet..</p><p>Appreciate it..</p><p>Message Edited by Trook on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:20 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#ff0066">So I take it Neither Moorgard or Blackgard wish to address these questions..</font></p><p>I often wonder why is it that when a Dev starts a post that will surely get peoples attention and bring out alot of questions/concerns.. we get maybe one or two replies out of like 4 pages? I know Blackgard posted on a couple specific issues but why not give a status on all the stuff they are currently working to resolve (The more serious issues). -or-</p><p>Wouldn't it be nice to have a forum where a SoE Community Manager could have it as part of their job to just read these boards and at the very least bring our concerns to a dev or game designer and then come back and reply with some updated info..</p><p>The benefits are endless.. The SoE folks get a better rep WRT CS, the paying customers are happy they are getting their concerns addressed and have an open line of communication with the folks that actually design the game.</p><p>To me, if I got a reply saying that the devs are aware of this and expect a fix in the near future or that was intended or oopps they goofed and it will be corrected..</p><p>Just short siimple answers like that is all I would like at a minimum..</p><p>Wouldn't it be nice?</p><p>As it  stands right now, a dev starts a post, folks see it and flock to it to post other concers because there was a "rare" dev/game designer sighting in hopes of several replies as a kind of "Status of the game" conversation on various issues. Instead we get little to no communication and the distinct impression they are ignoring us.. I know they read this post (All 4 pages) but we still get snuffed.</p><p>It's a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] shame</p><p>Message Edited by Trook on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:02 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Thanks MG for posting the info I was requesting in another thread.  really appreciate this!!<p>Message Edited by Trook on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:05 AM</span></p>

[Jai1]

<div></div><div>I'm kinda worried that the combination of proc changes are going to affect the value of the crafted items.  I know that the issue has been discussed in a few threads but people will only buy them if they think the thing is going to proc alot.  I don't think procing once in 33 or so fights is really all that good.  I hope they will still be looked at and balanced instead of put on the back burner. I get it that this is a bigger issue than just with imbued procs but still.</div><div> </div><div>As far as AR goes, I always thought it was cool that Brigs could avoid AEs.  I imagine they still will be able to with a little more movement and awareness.  DS are going to make it impossible though.  I'm a caster I don't even know if DS are common on AoE mobs.</div><div> </div><div>Edit: I do appreciate the effort for communication of these changes.  I hope it continue to clarify to people why things are being done.  I'd like to see a few more on things that are changing. </div><p>Message Edited by Jai1 on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:10 AM</span></p>

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>zonedbob wrote:<div></div><p>And no-one's mentioned Defilers yet. <font color="#ffff00">Our main group ward is not getting an upgrade - so our best spell is still gonna be a level 56 one when we hit 70</font>. One of our forum posters thought this was an "oversight which will be corrected" but I'm not seeing any love yet.</p><p>And our level 65 AoE spell is fluff compared to the powerful buff the mystics are getting then.</p><p>Are all these balance problems arising because the test server is underpopulated or unrepresentative? I've never played on it, so I don't know, but it doesn't seem to have been running the beta for all that long.</p><hr></blockquote><div>Isn't the tiered system of spells, armor, mobs, zones, etc... just working swimmingly well? I believe coercers(?) had this same problem with their power regen the last tier increase. If you just so happen to have a very useful, or even "class defining" spell fall into the x7- x0 range you are SOL for the next tier.</div><div> </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:05 AM</span></p>

[NemaLVey]

<div></div><p>Obviously from the feedback given by the Brigand Community on thier boards, this board, and the Beta boards there is an issue.  You value feedback, but by what your doing and saying you are not listening.  So what is the point to feedback real issues, when they go unheard.</p><p>I know many, if not all, real raiding Brigands have atleast 2 sets of armor, and back-up jewelery/weapons.  That is just for raiding!  Brigands that tank are a whole different animal and require a different set-up.  Brigands that solo are simular animals, but still some changes to armor/weapon/jewelery selection. </p><p> </p><p>I dont know what type of Brigands you are getting your test results from to warrant these changes.  Beta Buffed Brigands?</p>

[Melfius]

<div></div><p>I'd just like to take the time to thank BG for this post.  I think that it improves the game experience overall when the players are given a glimpse into what the thought process is behind these changes.  I really hope to see more of it in the fututre.</p><p> </p><p>Thanks Blackguard!</p>

[killzo]

<div></div><p>I'm really getting tired of these haphazard and ill conceived nerfs.  A note to the developers :   There are other classes out there besides Rangers (and Assasins) that if anything need to have their dps improved and not nerfed further.  As a Dirge these last 2 changes to procs castrated our already pitiful dps.  Cacophony was our signiture art that everyone loved.  Now it's just a 12 second fart in the wind.  Oooh lookout he's got tombs up, thats gonna do an extra 2000 points of damage over 10 minutes to mobs with over 300k hitpoints.  Nah thats too much, lets knock it down to 1000.</p><p>If you guys think Scouts are doing too much damage with poisons (Bards can't use poisons remember?) then address that issue and that issue alone.  Likewise if you think Rangers are doing too much damage with procs address that issue.  But for god's sake don't make sweeping changes that further nerf other classes that are nowhere near T1 (or T2 for that matter) damage.</p><p>Here are a few suggestions.</p><p>1)  If you want to decrease the amount of damage poisons do, rather than nerf procs accross the boards which has the side affect of messing with a lot of other classes (even Wizards get some [Removed for Content] procs they can apply - blazing grandeur), REDUCE the damage range of poisons across the board by whatever % you think they are overpowered by.  This would have the same affect as what you did, WITHOUT messing with the balance of the other classes with [Removed for Content] procs.</p><p>2) So you think Rangers are doing too much proc damage.  Reduce the proc damage range on items JUST for Rangers by whatever amount you feel you want to nerf them by.  This has the same net affect again without nerfing the double attacks that some of the other classes get.  I think it's pretty safe to say Bards, Assasins and Rogues are NOT doing insane damage due to procs from multi hit combat arts.</p>

[pedigr]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>killzone wrote:<div></div><p>I'm really getting tired of these haphazard and ill conceived nerfs.  A note to the developers :   There are other classes out there besides Rangers (and Assasins) that if anything need to have their dps improved and not nerfed further.  As a Dirge these last 2 changes to procs castrated our already pitiful dps.  Cacophony was our signiture art that everyone loved.  Now it's just a 12 second fart in the wind.  Oooh lookout he's got tombs up, thats gonna do an extra 2000 points of damage over 10 minutes to mobs with over 300k hitpoints.  Nah thats too much, lets knock it down to 1000.</p><p>If you guys think Scouts are doing too much damage with poisons (Bards can't use poisons remember?) then address that issue and that issue alone.  Likewise if you think Rangers are doing too much damage with procs address that issue.  But for god's sake don't make sweeping changes that further nerf other classes that are nowhere near T1 (or T2 for that matter) damage.</p><p>Here are a few suggestions.</p><p>1)  If you want to decrease the amount of damage poisons do, rather than nerf procs accross the boards which has the side affect of messing with a lot of other classes (even Wizards get some [Removed for Content] procs they can apply - blazing grandeur), REDUCE the damage range of poisons across the board by whatever % you think they are overpowered by.  This would have the same affect as what you did, WITHOUT messing with the balance of the other classes with [Removed for Content] procs.</p><p>2) So you think Rangers are doing too much proc damage.  Reduce the proc damage range on items JUST for Rangers by whatever amount you feel you want to nerf them by.  This has the same net affect again without nerfing the double attacks that some of the other classes get.  I think it's pretty safe to say Bards, Assasins and Rogues are NOT doing insane damage due to procs from multi hit combat arts.</p><hr></blockquote>You see, that all sounds far too easy and we all know that the devs dont like doing it the easy way.  They seem to enjoy making us hurt which is why I guess that they get 1 sign up for every 1000 WoW signups.  Apart from the time that Lockeye threw a bone to the Wardens after CU13 in gracing us with his wisdom os allowing us an extra 10% ontop of the already woeful heal nerfing, now the scouts get a 30-50% dps.  Bards and Trubs were finding it hard to do any damage before and now theyll dps like a druid.  It sounds like someone should get the sack.6 Months to "fix" the ranger procs - wow, its either taken someone 6 months to slowing pull their finger out or its taken 6 months for someone to finally notice - which one is it?  SoE have in a single ill-concieved motion, completely [Removed for Content] off an entire class - congrast, pat yourselves on the back and go back to thinking about what class/item to completely destory next.</span></div><p>Message Edited by pedigree on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:13 AM</span></p>

[Melfius]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>killzone wrote:<div></div><p>I'm really getting tired of these haphazard and ill conceived nerfs.  <font color="#ff0000">I see BGs post as being very detailed in how the idea was conceived.</font>  A note to the developers :   There are other classes out there besides Rangers (and Assasins) that if anything need to have their dps improved and not nerfed further. <font color="#ff0000"> It is always difficult dealing with a 'nerf'.  Both of the above mentioned classes were getting a wee bit overpowerful.  And no, this is not sour grapes from a Templar. </font> As a Dirge these last 2 changes to procs castrated our already pitiful dps.  Cacophony was our signiture art that everyone loved.  Now it's just a 12 second fart in the wind.  Oooh lookout he's got tombs up, thats gonna do an extra 2000 points of damage over 10 minutes to mobs with over 300k hitpoints.  Nah thats too much, lets knock it down to 1000.  <font color="#ff0000">But is this your only attack?  No.</font></p><p>If you guys think Scouts are doing too much damage with poisons (Bards can't use poisons remember?) then address that issue and that issue alone.  Likewise if you think Rangers are doing too much damage with procs address that issue.  But for god's sake don't make sweeping changes that further nerf other classes that are nowhere near T1 (or T2 for that matter) damage.  <font color="#ff0000">A bit difficult to make an item function differently from person to person.  Fair is fair, I suppose.</font></p><p>Here are a few suggestions.</p><p>1)  If you want to decrease the amount of damage poisons do, rather than nerf procs accross the boards which has the side affect of messing with a lot of other classes (even Wizards get some [Removed for Content] procs they can apply - blazing grandeur), REDUCE the damage range of poisons across the board by whatever % you think they are overpowered by.  This would have the same affect as what you did, WITHOUT messing with the balance of the other classes with [Removed for Content] procs.  <font color="#ff0000">Did you actually infer that other classes were balanced in any form?  Now, that's funny right there. I don't care who you are.</font></p><p>2) So you think Rangers are doing too much proc damage.  Reduce the proc damage range on items JUST for Rangers by whatever amount you feel you want to nerf them by.  This has the same net affect again without nerfing the double attacks that some of the other classes get.  I think it's pretty safe to say Bards, Assasins and Rogues are NOT doing insane damage due to procs from multi hit combat arts.  <font color="#ff0000">NO, they all pretty much do insane amounts of damage.  And, yes, that IS a Templkar talking.</font></p><hr></blockquote>Seriously, I'm just funnin' with ye.  Don't take any of this to heart.  It's early for me, and I haven't regulated my caffeine/nicotine levels yet.

[Robert2005]

I'm with you Melf.  All this attention to these melee/fighter classes. Com'on guys -- how would you feel if you had 300% less DPS then someone IN YOUR ARCHETYPE and everyone kept trying to convince you "working as intended" when all other factors are equal?However; the proc nerfs do suck so don't get too bent out of shape I feel your pain to some degree -- but you gotta admit when you look at the orders of magnitude larger problems...Why isn't such a significant problem like PRIEST BALANCE getting higher priority from SOE then this kind of stuff?  In a "<b>BALANCE</b>" announcement?  A <b>BALANCE </b>problem is when there's a 300% disparity in an archetype not when a skill procs a little more often then the dev/designer wants it too.That said -- I don't believe in shooting the messenger and applaud this post being made.  But please SOE focus some attention where it's needed.

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Robert2005 wrote:I'm with you Melf.  All this attention to these melee/fighter classes. Com'on guys -- how would you feel if you had 300% less DPS then someone IN YOUR ARCHETYPE and everyone kept trying to convince you "working as intended" when all other factors are equal?However; the proc nerfs do suck so don't get too bent out of shape I feel your pain to some degree -- but you gotta admit when you look at the orders of magnitude larger problems...Why isn't such a significant problem like PRIEST BALANCE getting higher priority from SOE then this kind of stuff?  In a "<b>BALANCE</b>" announcement?  A <b>BALANCE </b>problem is when there's a 300% disparity in an archetype not when a skill procs a little more often then the dev/designer wants it too.That said -- I don't believe in shooting the messenger and applaud this post being made.  <font color="#ffff00">But please SOE focus some attention where it's needed.</font><hr></blockquote><div> </div><div>Hey now...no hijacks allowed. JK :smileyhappy:</div><div> </div><div>As a character with a fury alt (45atm) I can certainly sympathize with templars plight.</div><div> </div><div>Dang...did I just aid in the hijack? <smacks self> Here's to hoping everyone get's some love.</div>

[Melfius]

<div></div><img src="http://www.ownedforums.com/pic/albums/Forum%20Funnies/hijacked.jpg">

[smoody]

<div></div><p>As a ranger, I am concerned with the stated proc method of the strength rings. Strength rings proc from melee combat? I don't melee! However, I do want strength buffs. The developers seem to think that AGI is all a ranger should be concerned with. I don't understand this when strength affects the damage output of my CA's. I have sufficient agility and I don't need it increased. However, as a wood elf ranger, I am constantly looking for ways to increase my strength.</p><p>Would another ranger like to comment? Or perhaps a dev? I don't understand the thought process behind AGI being king for a ranger. I rarely solo. I prefer raiding and group instances, so I want to maximize my damage output not my avoidance. What am I missing?</p><p>Fredethel</p>

[Strifex]

<div><p>I am done with Blackguard and his "Gotta use my nerf bat" approach these days on the players toward everything.  When he first took the job I saw a genuine effort to improve the game for players by positive corrections and a showed "listening ear" to players concerns and suggestions for the game in which they invest so much time and effort into building their character and being a part of the Everquest world.  His actions over the past 6+ months have shown what seems to be a reactive approach wrapped in thoughtlessness and frustration without regard to the many players concern or input.  Those actions (nerfbatting our characters over and over again) are then explained away with innaccuracies that border on the definition of lies.  Those actions are still implimented despite hundreds of outcries and concerns from the players.  For example, AR was never a get-out-of-jail-free-card as explained by Blackguard, nor was it game unbalancing.  The CA came with a +12% hate generator and if the Brigand pulled aggro he could be targeted with AEs, not to mention probably dead already from the raid mob hit (Brigands are not designed to take raid mob hits).  That required a skillful application of our debuffs to keep aggro on the MT/MA, it added an immense challenge and level of fun to being a Brigand who is designed to debuff the mob in close combat for the raid force.  It added a well balanced uniqueness to the class in executing its designed responsibilities.  Blackgaurd claims that the changes to AR will require the Brigand to now use skill when fighting raid mobs.  There is no skill involved when the Brigands AR drops because of the mobs Damage Shield (DS) or when the Brigand uses Vessel of Fry'un, it is completely out of the players hands.  No application of skill is going to prevent that.  If the Brigand uses that quested item like any other class uses it, he drops his AR...period - no amount of skill can avoid that just like no amount of skill can keep AR up when fighting DS mobs.  Skill was required with the old AR, now it is not, yet Blackguard claims it is probably in hopes of getting us to believe in something that is not.  It is like me telling my 6 year old son at noon time on a clear sunny day that the Sun is not up yet.  It is just not true.  The skill and challenge has been removed and substituted with an huge penalty.  If I use my Vessel of Fry'un, not only did I break my AR for 30 seconds and have to go stand on the sidelines not doing my job of debuffing the mob (since all my CA's are designed to debuff the mob at close range and I have no ranged CAs because it is outside the design and purpose of the Brigand class, I just sit there being useless), I sit out of the fight for minutes because of the DoT effect.  Last night in courts I hit the mob with a debuff, his DS brings down my AE immediately and within a second his AE kills me.  I got one debuff off, a single strike then I am dead.  I too am seeing a lot of DS mobs in KoS despite the claim of only 5% have DS.  With future expansions coupled with the rate increase of DS mobs in KoS compared to PoF, one can only expect a lot more DS mobs as future expansions are released.</p><p>Reminds me of the old verant days of EQ1 where there was a continual rotation of smaking character classes with the bat until eventually, people end up cancelling their subscriptions in frustration.  For those that remember, SOE finally did customer survery on the log-in screen with regard to Verant's customer satisfaction level.  The results where dismal and although it may not have been the primary reason, Verant was soon relieved of its place in EQ1.  After all the thoughtless nerfing over multiple years it produced what?  More nerfing because the nerf corrections still have not balanced their imagined unbalancing issues.  The latest crafted ring fiasco is just one small example to add to the Brigand example.  Crafted rings get changed to remove the ring buff in order to fix some imagined game unbalancing issue, then less than a month later it is changed again to buff on something like a 3.5% rate, to remove the game unbalancing correction they had just put in (I thought we had a test server).  Blackguard wrote "we are not nerfing things for the fun of it"  and from a professional opinion I can agree with that.  Once again that statement avoids the issue.  The issue is, as I stated in my response to his statement in the post "some balance changes in testing" in the Develpoment Corner forum    "<strong>I do not think anyone believes you are nerfing things for the fun of it.  I do believe based on the overwhelming customer responses on the boards, that most think the repetitive nerfing is not well thought out, nor is it done in consideration of the many customers who have countless hours of experience playing their class</strong>." </p><p>As I said, I am done.  I am cancelling my 2 subscriptions to EQ2.  I would expect Blackgaurd to welcome the news since my voice has been a voice of reason which contradicts his recent 6+ month reactive approach wrapped in thoughtlessness and frustration without regard to the overwhelming player input or concern.  I am taking the memories of the many friends of those I have met and bringing them to a different Online game that does not practice continuous and negative nerfing of their players classes with questional integrity justifications.</p></div>

[QQL]

<div></div><p>Just wondering if the change to Alin's Tranquil Serenade was part of the combat changes?  It seems that the wording of the spell has been corrected to say it reduces aggro "IF NOT FIGHTER" but now it is reducing aggro for fighters and when it is played in group, the mobs bounce around because the tank can not hold aggro anymore.  When the description was "IF FIGHTER", the spell was working as intended.  I understand the change in the aggro reduction percentage was part of the balancing changes but can you please fix the spell so that it works?</p><p>Thanks,</p><p>Laara,</p><p>62 Troubador, Ancient Vengeance(Nejena)</p>

[c00nd]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div><p>...</p><p><font color="#ff3399"><font color="#ffffcc">Imbued rings have been modified to be more focused on a single imbued stat. The benefits will also improve depending on the quality level of a crafted item, so you'll see the greatest stat benefit from pristine imbued rings. Additionally, we've made the stat enhancements for imbued rings have a chance to trigger on different events during combat: strength rings can trigger on successful melee attacks; agility rings can trigger on combat art usage; stamina rings can trigger on taking damage; wisdom rings can trigger when beneficial spells are cast; intelligence rings can trigger when offensive spells land.</font></font>...</p><p>Keep in mind that the way these changes function when they all make it to Live may be different than described here, and could even be adjusted further thereafter. However, I thought it would be a good idea to discuss what we're doing and why so you know we aren't just "nerfing" things for the fun of it. There's always a reason, and we think this will make the game more fun for everyone, especially in the long term. As always, your feedback is welcome, so feel free to provide it in a constructive manner here.</p><div></div><hr></blockquote>The ring changes are significant enough to warrant un-attuning in my opinion.  My ring choices will/have changed because of the changes to imbued rings.  I would like to be able to trade or sell these rings (one time obviously) instead of replacing them and having to sell to a vendor.

[Arhan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div>Balance testing new content ranges is always very revealing. When you take things up a tier, problems in the existing systems end up being magnified and rapidly come to the forefront. The Kingdom of Sky beta is no exception--over the course of KoS beta testing, a few issues came to the surface that we felt were important to address.First off, while creating the next series of imbued items, we noticed a problem with near-infinitely stackable stat buffs from imbued rings. We couldn't continue along with this progression, and decided that it was necessary to change the way imbued rings work.Imbued rings have been modified to be more focused on a single imbued stat. The benefits will also improve depending on the quality level of a crafted item, so you'll see the greatest stat benefit from pristine imbued rings. Additionally, we've made the stat enhancements for imbued rings have a chance to trigger on different events during combat: strength rings can trigger on successful melee attacks; agility rings can trigger on combat art usage; stamina rings can trigger on taking damage; wisdom rings can trigger when beneficial spells are cast; intelligence rings can trigger when offensive spells land.We also discovered some problems with the way procs trigger. As it stands on Live today, the longer the delay of your weapon, the more likely a proc will trigger. Sounds logical, of course, but we noticed one glaring issue: It also affects combat arts. No matter the speed of your weapon, you're able to fire off combat arts just as fast as the next character. Procs would trigger on these combat arts, and with slower weapons, they fire off significantly more often than with faster weapons.This is changing. We couldn't continue with procs working in this manner and make combat that was challenging enough for those who could take advantage of it without making creatures that were far too strong for the vast majority of classes.And finally, we've made a few changes to Brigands that some of you have already seen and provided feedback on. Before the change to Amazing Reflexes, this art could be used to grant permanent indirect AoE immunity. This had the effect of Brigands not needing to acquire diverse gear for resists and health because nothing touched them as long as they did not acquire aggro. This wasn't a matter of player skill so much as it was relying on a single extremely powerful ability.As of LU20, Amazing Reflexes will break for a short duration if the Brigand takes damage, so you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs. You can still avoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so, but Amazing Reflexes is no longer a get-out-of-jail-free card.Keep in mind that the way these changes function when they all make it to Live may be different than described here, and could even be adjusted further thereafter. However, I thought it would be a good idea to discuss what we're doing and why so you know we aren't just "nerfing" things for the fun of it. There's always a reason, and we think this will make the game more fun for everyone, especially in the long term. As always, your feedback is welcome, so feel free to provide it in a constructive manner here.<div></div><hr></blockquote>What about the rate that debuff poisons proc?   I'd also like to see an increase of damage/dot poisons increased a bit also not to what it was prekos was, but a little better then it is existing.  Rangers really need more utility if we are barely going proc with poisons.  I'd love to see us get our EQ1 attack buffs back such as Spirit of the Predator, and Strength of Tunare....

[Suraklin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kaiser Sigma wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>First of all, I play an assassin. I have no alts, so all I know from classes comes from my experience during raids.</div><div> </div><div>In regards to Brigands.. whoever thinks this fix to Amazing Reflexes is well deserved either: Puts the need of measuring his/her e-pen0s (aka dps on a parser) before the needs of his/her raid or knows crap about raiding. In any case the common denominator is, whoever thinks like that is not a teamplayer.</div><div> </div><div>Brigands are, sorry were, ae immune.. to what end? To benefit the raid with their debuffs. <font color="#cc3333">They weren't avoiding agro so they can score 1k-1.5k like summoners</font> / rangers in fact brigands (the ones I've raided with) are on the 450-750 dps range.</div><div> </div><div>Just like the bow proc nerf, sorry fix, if you want to "fix" something give us a good  reason for it. The "not fair they don't have to care about resist stuff" argument doesn't hold any water when you take into account that all t1-t2 dps classes, with the exception of Assassins and Swashbucklers, fight ranged and are never have to worry about aes.</div><div> </div><div>Skill? Any dps class with at least one foot on Earth knows that aggro management is all about skills, Brigands were running around with a death sentence since AR was an aggro amplifier. If you don't consider that fighting a lvl 65+ epic mob with an aggro leash while at the same time meeting the demands of a raid to debuffs resistances and do a job as a t2 dps isn't about skills then I would like to know why sending pets, nuking like hell or sitting back and blasting stuff with a bow is.</div><div> </div><div>But I'll leave the brigands issue at that. In regards to the proc "fix".. I said nothing with the bow proc "fix" even though it made  one of my few "ranged" CAs even more useless than it already was (the only reason to use Assailing Blast was to keep your fingers crossed that procs would trigger with the 2 puny shots of 350-500 at Master I). I let Rangers cry foul because they'd feel the change more, true..</div><div> </div><div>But this upcoming change will diminish Assassins' (as well as rogues') dps even more. Perhaps not nearly as much as the dps of a ranger but it will still affect us. Rangers were "overpowered" fine.. what's the excuse to bring Assassins' dps down? We aren't t1 dps unless we have a coercer, dirge and someone buffing our str to the max.. and even then I still have issues reaching t1 dps. Moreover, I'll have more luck spawning Arazul, Hand of the Godking than getting that set up on my group since no one sees as a priority to buff one class so they can do the damage they were supposed to do on their own. And personally I think they are right on that judgement.</div><div> </div><div>So since we use big words like balance and stuff, that's my question to the devs. You wanted to "fix" Rangers' dps, I got that part. Now, why "fixing" the dps of the other melees classes as well? That bit I didn't get.</div><p>Message Edited by Kaiser Sigma on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:27 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Someone likes to smoke crack a we bit don't we? I have never seen a Summoner do that good.

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Suraklin wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kaiser Sigma wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>First of all, I play an assassin. I have no alts, so all I know from classes comes from my experience during raids.</div><div> </div><div>In regards to Brigands.. whoever thinks this fix to Amazing Reflexes is well deserved either: Puts the need of measuring his/her e-pen0s (aka dps on a parser) before the needs of his/her raid or knows crap about raiding. In any case the common denominator is, whoever thinks like that is not a teamplayer.</div><div> </div><div>Brigands are, sorry were, ae immune.. to what end? To benefit the raid with their debuffs. <font color="#cc3333">They weren't avoiding agro so they can score 1k-1.5k like summoners</font> / rangers in fact brigands (the ones I've raided with) are on the 450-750 dps range.</div><div> </div><div>Just like the bow proc nerf, sorry fix, if you want to "fix" something give us a good  reason for it. The "not fair they don't have to care about resist stuff" argument doesn't hold any water when you take into account that all t1-t2 dps classes, with the exception of Assassins and Swashbucklers, fight ranged and are never have to worry about aes.</div><div> </div><div>Skill? Any dps class with at least one foot on Earth knows that aggro management is all about skills, Brigands were running around with a death sentence since AR was an aggro amplifier. If you don't consider that fighting a lvl 65+ epic mob with an aggro leash while at the same time meeting the demands of a raid to debuffs resistances and do a job as a t2 dps isn't about skills then I would like to know why sending pets, nuking like hell or sitting back and blasting stuff with a bow is.</div><div> </div><div>But I'll leave the brigands issue at that. In regards to the proc "fix".. I said nothing with the bow proc "fix" even though it made  one of my few "ranged" CAs even more useless than it already was (the only reason to use Assailing Blast was to keep your fingers crossed that procs would trigger with the 2 puny shots of 350-500 at Master I). I let Rangers cry foul because they'd feel the change more, true..</div><div> </div><div>But this upcoming change will diminish Assassins' (as well as rogues') dps even more. Perhaps not nearly as much as the dps of a ranger but it will still affect us. Rangers were "overpowered" fine.. what's the excuse to bring Assassins' dps down? We aren't t1 dps unless we have a coercer, dirge and someone buffing our str to the max.. and even then I still have issues reaching t1 dps. Moreover, I'll have more luck spawning Arazul, Hand of the Godking than getting that set up on my group since no one sees as a priority to buff one class so they can do the damage they were supposed to do on their own. And personally I think they are right on that judgement.</div><div> </div><div>So since we use big words like balance and stuff, that's my question to the devs. You wanted to "fix" Rangers' dps, I got that part. Now, why "fixing" the dps of the other melees classes as well? That bit I didn't get.</div><p>Message Edited by Kaiser Sigma on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:27 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Someone likes to smoke crack a we bit don't we? I have never seen a Summoner do that good.<hr></blockquote>I have plenty of times.. add the pet DPS to the summoner DPS .</span></div>

[Strifex]

<div></div>I have as well.  Add the pet damage in and you will see why summoner was mentioned.

[Taraxus]

As of LU20, Amazing Reflexes will break for a short duration if the Brigand takes damage, so you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs. You can still avoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so, but Amazing Reflexes is no longer a get-out-of-jail-free card.Yesterday fought against Venekor (CT-Raid) for gaining some guild- as well as aa-xp. Got noone in raid could debuff the dragons feedback making AR completely useless. A single melee hit from the brig and it fades, and this has nothing to do with aggro management, its still broken i think.You should no longer nerf classes who are far beyond the top.BTW without AR and without giving us usefull range attacks for such fights you knock us out for raids ...Another thingee is please give us brigs a usefull 65 ancient spell and take those fluff spell "Band of Thugs" out of the game. Most other classes get very cool stuff hitting the nuts out of the shell !Im bored, please dont leave us alone. Go nerf some summoners ^^.

[Cerivus2]

<div></div><p>The changes to AR for the Brigand class IMO were not very thought out. Raiding Brigands know that if one gains aggro from the raid mob, they were dead. AR increased Aggro. Brigands can not transfer aggro like that of other classes, but can dispel it from themselves. I can tell you that it was a true balancing act between aggro management and staying alive. The changes to AR were not needed, they hurt no other class as all other classes in the raid force gained from the Brigand's ability to stay in close to the mob and land the debuffs needed for the overpowered encounters. Brigand's debuff, we do T2 DPS at best. Now with the change, we are virtually worthless on most raids. AR drops with even 1 point of any damage. Brigands have no abilities that let them sit out of AE range and attack/debuff the encounter like all other Scout classes.</p><p>In short, it hurts.</p><p>I really like playing and love the class. It is truly disheartening when developers make unannounced changes and refuse to make constitutional rational decisions based on hearsay, not live testing or player feedback. You would think that they would take class advice from those who play the class day in and day out. Unfortunately it seems that this is not the case. Why Nerf at all? You claim balance and playability, but time and time again you contradict yourselves. How about you just upgrade the classes that are broken in place of Nerfing the classes that work?</p><p>I have been told that some developers play the Brigand class. I would like to, if at all possible, here their thoughts.</p><p> </p><p>Oh and by the way, Band of Thugs has also been nerfed back to the stone age, rather worthless now as a class ability. Can you look at taking away my ability to dual wield and make me use a broken broomstick held together with duct tape? It would be a good addition to the class.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[curtlewis]

When are Wizards and Warlocks going to be able to do Tier 1 DPS damage since they're a Tier 1 DPS class?As it stands now, they're a Tier 3 DPS class, out gunned by Assassins, Rangers (after next patch), Conjurors, Coercers, Brigands, Necros...Where they particularly suck is in the raid situation, where the DPS classes really need to step forward and do their job.You'll probably find that they need additional aggro management tools when their spells are tweaked to put them in Tier 1 DPS like they should be.