Timeframe for "new" betryal quest going live?

[minionofdeath]

<div></div>Since reading Svartmane's comments...<a target="_blank" href="../view_profile?user.id=343"><span></span></a><span><font color="#ffff00">When the <i>NEW </i>betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change to their correlating class (ie Warlock -> Wizard) <i>without </i>betraying.  The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) <i>would </i>still apply in this situation however.</font></span>I've been giddy with excitement and can't wait for this change to go live.  Is there a timeframe of when this may go live?  I'm finding myself logging into the forums several times a day now looking for info on this.  I'm dying to know anything, something, a small morsel, a tidbit, just something lol.<div></div>

[Sevewe]

<div></div>same....i have my ratonga assassin i can finaly bring to qeynos and make a ranger hehe...

[Stern]

<div></div><p>I've always wanted to play a Ratonga... always. But I did not want to go through all the B***S*** because I like Qeynos better. It's brighter, happier, more colorful... So, now (soon) I can make a Ratonga and get him to Qeynos easier? Okay then, something I can look forward to.</p><p> </p>

[MadLordOfMilk]

Err... how would this make getting a ratonga to Qeynos any easier?<div></div>

[Magu]

It wouldn't. You'd still have to betray.<div></div>

[Moorgard]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> minionofdeath wrote:<BR> Since reading Svartmane's comments...<A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=343" target=_blank><SPAN></SPAN></A><BR><BR><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>When the <I>NEW </I>betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change to their correlating class (ie Warlock -> Wizard) <I>without </I>betraying.  The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) <I>would </I>still apply in this situation however.</FONT></SPAN><BR><BR><BR>I've been giddy with excitement and can't wait for this change to go live.  Is there a timeframe of when this may go live?  I'm finding myself logging into the forums several times a day now looking for info on this.  I'm dying to know anything, something, a small morsel, a tidbit, just something lol.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>We anticipate it will arrive in the next update or two after LU20. That's subject to change, of course.</P> <P>This isn't just about modifying a couple of existing quests; it will be a complete rework of the system with some rather interesting new additions to it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>minionofdeath wrote:<div></div>Since reading Svartmane's comments...<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=343"><span></span></a><span><font color="#ffff00">When the <i>NEW </i>betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change to their correlating class (ie Warlock -> Wizard) <i>without </i>betraying.  The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) <i>would </i>still apply in this situation however.</font></span>I've been giddy with excitement and can't wait for this change to go live.  Is there a timeframe of when this may go live?  I'm finding myself logging into the forums several times a day now looking for info on this.  I'm dying to know anything, something, a small morsel, a tidbit, just something lol.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>We anticipate it will arrive in the next update or two after LU20. That's subject to change, of course.</p><p>This isn't just about modifying a couple of existing quests; it will be a complete rework of the system with some rather interesting new additions to it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>i cant wait...as a person with severe alt-itis (10 char slots full) I am really hoping that one day i'll be able to undertake some kind of extensive quest to "respec" my char.. and be able to do it as many times as I want but with a severe penalty (100% debt?, reset of spells, what ever). ... i dont just mean in the same class either.. like warlock to wizard.. but wizard to fury .. make it something that will take a bit, and only do-able once every month or something.. but i have 10 chars cos i want to try them all at higher levels .. and i get bored with a class and want to switch.long as its not something where you can be a templar today and a wizard tomorrow I see no prob with it.. you'll need to re-equip the char pretty much, nothing that was attuned to the old one can be used on the new one, app 1 spells etc etc..kinda like the template shift in SWG, but with an interesting long quest instead of just a grind.</span></div>

[xOnaton1]

Just one suggestion--Please do not make it trivial and easier than it is now. Please don't make it something you can zip through in one day. Currently the betrayal quest is long, slightly difficult, but not as difficult as it was before. The entire thing is soloable except for one heroic target. I hope it will be as hard or maybe harder than it is now, so that betraying takes some thought and actually means something.Thanks.<div></div>

[minionofdeath]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<blockquote><hr>minionofdeath wrote:Since reading Svartmane's comments...<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=343"><span></span></a><span><font color="#ffff00">When the <i>NEW </i>betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change to their correlating class (ie Warlock -> Wizard) <i>without </i>betraying.  The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) <i>would </i>still apply in this situation however.</font></span>I've been giddy with excitement and can't wait for this change to go live.  Is there a timeframe of when this may go live?  I'm finding myself logging into the forums several times a day now looking for info on this.  I'm dying to know anything, something, a small morsel, a tidbit, just something lol.<hr></blockquote><p>We anticipate it will arrive in the next update or two after LU20. That's subject to change, of course.</p><p>This isn't just about modifying a couple of existing quests; it will be a complete rework of the system with some rather interesting new additions to it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>Thank you </span><span>Moorgard for your reply <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>.</span></div>

[retro_guy]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>minionofdeath wrote:<div></div>Since reading Svartmane's comments...<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=343" target="_blank"><span></span></a><span><font color="#ffff00">When the <i>NEW </i>betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change to their correlating class (ie Warlock -> Wizard) <i>without </i>betraying.  The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) <i>would </i>still apply in this situation however.</font></span>I've been giddy with excitement and can't wait for this change to go live.  Is there a timeframe of when this may go live?  I'm finding myself logging into the forums several times a day now looking for info on this.  I'm dying to know anything, something, a small morsel, a tidbit, just something lol.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>We anticipate it will arrive in the next update or two after LU20. That's subject to change, of course.</p><p>This isn't just about modifying a couple of existing quests; it will be a complete rework of the system with some rather interesting new additions to it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>Would it be possible to work in somewhere a step where the betrayer has to kill x number of frogloks?I know I personally would betray just for that opportunity.Perhaps you could include a special instance of Castleview, those NPCs have been asking for it.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by retro_guy on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:58 PM</span></p>

[Galn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div><p>This isn't just about modifying a couple of existing quests; it will be a complete rework of the system with some rather interesting new additions to it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>Nice carrot yer danglin there Moorgard... any news on whether the Warlock/Wizard, Guardian/Berserker, Dirge/Troubador, etc swaps will be going in? I have a Warlock that really wants to be a Wizard and I dont really want to go through 30 levels again. Not a fact of Wizard being better than Warlock, but the Wizard being more my style of class than Warlock.

[elda]

I really hope this doesn't get delayed.Also, I hope the new quest doesn't refuse to start if you have the old one on your completed list.I have a defiler whose entire plan was always to betray over to mystic, but something screwy went wrong and dumped me out of the quest and declared the whole thing 'complete'. (And GMs tell me they can't correct it)Hopefully the new quest will at least allow me to work around whatever the flaw was in the old one.<div></div>

[Lachlan]

<div>The question I have as a Guardian is this: <font color="#ccff33"> Is this betrayal a one time quest or could you reverse it?</font>  If 3 months down the road, the dev team has time to look deeper into the main issues people have identified as problems with Guardians and offer a comprehensive set of changes to bring the playing style of this heavy defensive tank up to where other fighters are at, that's not the kind of surprise people will appreciate getting after going through a class change process that's irreversable.</div><div> </div><div>At any rate, I do appreciate the dev's trying to come up with some creative options to adress player concerns. </div>

[urgatorbait]

<div></div><p>I will utterly do backflips when this goes live.  As another poster stated earlier, I hope it is a lengthy, challenging quest but one that can be done mostly solo or small group-ish.  I have a Warlock that has not been played much since the combat revamp when warlocks suddenly became the AE specialists.  Not something I enjoy.  I will gladly switch to Wizard.  Furthermore, as someone else stated, I hope having betrayed previously does not exclude me from making this switch.</p><p>/cheers SOE</p>

[bo]

<div><span><font color="#ffff00">When the <i>NEW </i>betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change to their correlating class (ie Warlock -> Wizard) <i>without </i>betraying.  The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) <i>would </i>still apply in this situation however.</font></span></div><div><span><font color="#ffff00"></font></span> </div><div><span><font color="#ffff00">What is meant by specific classes?  Should be all across the board for example  templar to inquisitor, paladin to shadowkight, necro to conj,  and so on. I know that you can't have a paladin in freeport so  does non-city specific mean the the classes that are both in one city don't have to betray but can somehow change in their current city?</font></span></div>

[Galn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>bowz wrote:<div><span><font color="#ffff00"><font color="#ff3300">When the <i>NEW </i>betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change to their correlating class (ie Warlock -> Wizard) <i>without </i>betraying.</font>  The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) <i>would </i>still apply in this situation however.</font></span></div><div><span><font color="#ffff00"></font></span> </div><div><span><font color="#ffff00">What is meant by specific classes?  Should be all across the board for example  templar to inquisitor, paladin to shadowkight, necro to conj,  and so on. I know that you can't have a paladin in freeport so  does non-city specific mean the the classes that are both in one city don't have to betray but can somehow change in their current city?</font></span></div><hr></blockquote>You answered yuor question in the text you quoted... highlighted in red now... I'm still wondering if this will really be in the game soon or not, Like urgatorbait Warlock isnt the class I want to play now, after talking to a guildie who has a higher wizard than my warlock the Wizard is more my style. I'd rather not start a new Wizard and get it halfway to the same level as my Warlock if this "feature" will be instituted for sure, on the other hand if this gets scrapped along the way I'd be better off starting a fresh Wizard now.

[cr0wangel]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>minionofdeath wrote:<div></div>Since reading Svartmane's comments...<a href="../view_profile?user.id=343" target="_blank"><span></span></a><span><font color="#ffff00">When the <i>NEW </i>betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change to their correlating class (ie Warlock -> Wizard) <i>without </i>betraying.  </font></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Without betraying? So they will just press a button and change class? O_O Your character's class is one of the basic thing of the game, it should not be done without a very long quest (and should not be done at all in my opinion, if you want to play something else, create another character).</span></div>

[Carna]

<div></div>Without betrayal simply means you'll stay within the same city and doesn't preclude a long quest.

[FatalPhoenix]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>cr0wangel wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>minionofdeath wrote:<div></div>Since reading Svartmane's comments...<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=343"><span></span></a><span><font color="#ffff00">When the <i>NEW </i>betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change to their correlating class (ie Warlock -> Wizard) <i>without </i>betraying.  </font></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Without betraying? So they will just press a button and change class? O_O Your character's class is one of the basic thing of the game, it should not be done without a very long quest (and should not be done at all in my opinion, if you want to play something else, create another character).</span></div><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#ff9900" size="2" face="Verdana">I have to agree.  If they are going to allow you to change your non-city specific class then there should be some sort of quest similar to the betrayal quest that would need to be completed.  It shouldn't be "simple" to change from warden to fury or wizard to warlock, etc.  </font></p><p><font color="#ff9900" size="2" face="Verdana">Of course, we could be jumping the gun since the original post stated <font color="#ffff00"><strong>currently considering</strong> </font><font color="#ff9900">and doesn't state for sure that they are even going to go in this direction.</font></font></p><p><font color="#ffff00"></font> </p><p>Message Edited by FatalPhoenix on <span class="date_text">02-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:59 AM</span></p>

[Onorem]

<span><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr></blockquote>i dont just mean in the same class either.. like warlock to wizard.. but wizard to fury .</span></div><hr></blockquote>That sounds like one of the few things they could do to this game that would convince me to quit.</span><div></div>

[zorros]

<span><blockquote><hr>Galn wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div><p>This isn't just about modifying a couple of existing quests; it will be a complete rework of the system with some rather interesting new additions to it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>Nice carrot yer danglin there Moorgard... any news on whether the Warlock/Wizard, Guardian/Berserker, Dirge/Troubador, etc swaps will be going in? I have a Warlock that really wants to be a Wizard and I dont really want to go through 30 levels again. Not a fact of Wizard being better than Warlock, but the Wizard being more my style of class than Warlock.<hr></blockquote>Im guessing guardians wont get a choice on class change as you can live in either city as it is.Same for furys.</span><div></div>

[Koehianna]

<div>Any update on this?  I'm seriously getting more excited every minute, another minute closer to when this will go live.  I want it <font color="#ff0000">now</font>!</div>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div>/Bump me too ;p

[Magiocracy]

Hmmm.....to be honest I'm not really convinced on this idea, the simple reason being is that it will probably lead to even more class imbalances than before as people (especially the 'neutral') classes respec out of the currently underpowered classes into their subclass equivalent.The two examples I can think of would be a mass exodus of Guardians to Berserkers, and a similar (though probably smalled) exodus of Warlocks to Wizards.Class population imbalances are already bad enough without making them worse.<div></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Magiocracy wrote:Hmmm.....to be honest I'm not really convinced on this idea, the simple reason being is that it will probably lead to even more class imbalances than before as people (especially the 'neutral') classes respec out of the currently underpowered classes into their subclass equivalent.The two examples I can think of would be a mass exodus of Guardians to Berserkers, and a similar (though probably smalled) exodus of Warlocks to Wizards.Class population imbalances are already bad enough without making them worse.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Whats wrong with people unhappy with there class wanting to switch to something new ?</p><p> </p>

[Magiocracy]

<span><blockquote><hr>DarkMirrax wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Magiocracy wrote:Hmmm.....to be honest I'm not really convinced on this idea, the simple reason being is that it will probably lead to even more class imbalances than before as people (especially the 'neutral') classes respec out of the currently underpowered classes into their subclass equivalent.The two examples I can think of would be a mass exodus of Guardians to Berserkers, and a similar (though probably smalled) exodus of Warlocks to Wizards.Class population imbalances are already bad enough without making them worse.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Whats wrong with people unhappy with there class wanting to switch to something new ?</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Nothing is wrong with it per se, but if it's going to lead to ten berserkers for every one guardian then that can't be good for the game. I realise that most players won't take a decision like this lightly (especially if they've built up a nice stable of adepts3/masters), but it WILL cause even more imbalances in the games population that already exists.</span><div></div>

[Koehianna]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Magiocracy wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>DarkMirrax wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Magiocracy wrote:Hmmm.....to be honest I'm not really convinced on this idea, the simple reason being is that it will probably lead to even more class imbalances than before as people (especially the 'neutral') classes respec out of the currently underpowered classes into their subclass equivalent.The two examples I can think of would be a mass exodus of Guardians to Berserkers, and a similar (though probably smalled) exodus of Warlocks to Wizards.Class population imbalances are already bad enough without making them worse.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Whats wrong with people unhappy with there class wanting to switch to something new ?</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Nothing is wrong with it per se, but <font color="#ff0000">if it's going to lead to ten berserkers for every one guardian</font> then that can't be good for the game. I realise that most players won't take a decision like this lightly (especially if they've built up a nice stable of adepts3/masters), but it WILL cause even more imbalances in the games population that already exists.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>It can go both ways you know. There will be people of both sides who will want to betray.  If there are any imbalances with the class populations it's most likely due to the gameplay mechanics of the class, not people favoring one and not its opposite.</p><p>SO WHEN'S IT GOING LIVE?!?!?! :smileyvery-happy:</p><p>Message Edited by Koehianna on <span class="date_text">02-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:50 PM</span></p>

[Ezariel]

<div></div>Please, please, please get this in game asap!  I don't care if we can switch classes at will but what I do care about is the ability for city specific classes to switch.  My poor Bruiser has been nerfed into the trash and I want to be a monk :smileysad:

[Auron_ff10]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ezariel wrote:<div></div>Please, please, please get this in game asap!  I don't care if we can switch classes at will but what I do care about is the ability for city specific classes to switch.  My poor Bruiser has been nerfed into the trash and I want to be a monk :smileysad:<hr></blockquote><p>This is the only problem i see with this system atm... it appears many ppl will be betraying simply to escape a class they feel may be overnerfed... Im going to assume that part of the reason theyre doing this is to allow ppl to effectively /respec their class after certain things are changed... i cant imagine SOE is implementing this just to be kind... theyre trying to make their life easier with class complaints by being able to say 'dont like ya class? just change then!'</p><p>This attitude is the only thing thats worrying me about this as much as itll be great for ppl to get away from the nerfs and play a more effective class there will be a flood of certain classes and a huge drop in others...</p>

[Ezariel]

<div></div><div>Whats so wrong with people being able to change their class?  I see you reference Auron and FF10 in your name.  Ever play FFXI?  In that game you could change your class with the click of a single button.  Was it really so bad?  No.  It was not unbalancing at all.  What does it matter to you if I want to play a templar one day and a zerk the next.  Absolutely nothing.  In fact it made it easier to form groups as a friend could switch to healer if you didn't need the class they were currently on.  And it kept people from being bored or frustrated if they didn't like the class they were playing.  Now we are not asking for anything so radical to be implemented.  We are just asking for a one time shot.</div><p>Message Edited by Ezariel on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:18 AM</span></p>

[Koehianna]

<div></div>Can someone who has tested this recently at least tell us if they think the new betrayal system is polished and ready to go?  At least then we can speculate as to when they'll release.  I'm delaying leveling by just doing HQs and catching up on my crafting, so I can experience more of life as a Necromancer (currently a Conjuror).

[Auron_ff10]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ezariel wrote:<div></div><div>Whats so wrong with people being able to change their class?  I see you reference Auron and FF10 in your name.  Ever play FFXI?  In that game you could change your class with the click of a single button.  Was it really so bad?  No.  It was not unbalancing at all.  What does it matter to you if I want to play a templar one day and a zerk the next.  Absolutely nothing.  In fact it made it easier to form groups as a friend could switch to healer if you didn't need the class they were currently on.  And it kept people from being bored or frustrated if they didn't like the class they were playing.  Now we are not asking for anything so radical to be implemented.  We are just asking for a one time shot.</div><p>Message Edited by Ezariel on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:18 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>No need to flame me, its a valid point anfd there are a number of ppl worried that class populations will shift majorly after this... the problem is ezariel that here you CANT switch whenever u like and so if sum1 changes their class it will be a permanent change...if this is the case everyone will be changing to the class they feel will benefit them better in the long term...</p><p>i honestly WANT to be able to change though im switching from conj to necro due to aesthetic preferences (conj and necro are currently most overpowered classes in the game so theres nothing like that influening this decision)</p><p>all im worried about is that people may start changing in large numbers and so there will be an unbalanced population of each subclass... ive seen a number of ppl saying they want to change to monk because bruisers have been nerfed a bit recently... if that is the case and anything ever arises where a bruiser may be the best choice, since we dont run the FFXI system here they cant change at the drop of a hat and so bruisers would become a rarity...</p><p>im supporting the change, dont get me wrong on that, im just bracing myself for a huge relocation of players after this and a huge number of ppl who have to relearn their classes (just like ill have to)</p>

[Sir Blig]

<div>Well class numbers move up and down no mater what, I have seen a few people leave because there class got trashed and that means there class went down with no other class going up</div><div> </div><div>A very good idea to support this from a SOE point of view is, some people don’t want to go through the pain of getting another toon up to the top level just because they are no longer playing what they selected or they are tied of there class or there class has ended up not being what they expected,</div><div> </div><div>From a $$$$$ point of view if allowing a class change will keep people playing for longer then it is good for SOE,</div><div>And the cost of loosing all spell upgrades is sacrifice enough, if one had a good few master and adept III’s then changing class will not be done lightly or quickly.</div><div> </div><div>This change will also cause these people to buy upgrades for there new spells and that should reduce stock and increase prices…</div><div> </div><div>For me I welcome this change, as I have toon on a class I never wanted, and a few others at the same time had similar issues and thanks to SOE’s guilty until proven innocent policies that toon of mine was never going to be played again, if</div><div> </div><div>I can change the class to what I wanted then I may play it again and that would mean another toon buying upgrades and helping turn the market toward the sellers.</div><div> </div><div>BTW I wanted that toon to be a GUARDIAN</div><div> </div><div>Echo from before, when o when will this be out? any info from anywhere pls</div>

[Dreadwalk]

What would prompt most poeple to change ?  My guess is perceptions the other classes is better than theirs , which in the mind of most seems to be clear cut (eg Guard vs Bruiser)  So you would probably see huge shifts , as others have alluded to , potentially skyrocketing prices of spells , masters etc, raid slots...This should maybe be offered a 1 time only for poeple above 40 at time of the combat revamp. With new class progression system there is really no need for this as new players can see their class style very early.   The older players who class changed too much for their liking at LU13 could take up the offer.  (eg Warlock who became AOE focus much to dismay of many played warlocks at the time)

[Carna]

<div></div>There's no reason at all to keep players locked into a class they're unhappy with.

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Auron_ff10 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ezariel wrote:<div></div>Please, please, please get this in game asap!  I don't care if we can switch classes at will but what I do care about is the ability for city specific classes to switch.  My poor Bruiser has been nerfed into the trash and I want to be a monk :smileysad:<hr></blockquote><p>This is the only problem i see with this system atm... it appears many ppl will be betraying simply to escape a class they feel may be overnerfed... Im going to assume that part of the reason theyre doing this is to allow ppl to effectively /respec their class after certain things are changed... i cant imagine SOE is implementing this just to be kind... theyre trying to make their life easier with class complaints by being able to say 'dont like ya class? just change then!'</p><p>This attitude is the only thing thats worrying me about this as much as itll be great for ppl to get away from the nerfs and play a more effective class there will be a flood of certain classes and a huge drop in others...</p><hr></blockquote>This could be easily fixed if Sony stopped redesigning the god [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] game every Live Update.  Everytime they deploy a new live update they have done something drastic to one or more claasses that completely ruin the fun for the people playing that class.People who have spent 18 months or more building that character, who adventure nightly with friends with that character, who have spent large amounts of coin on that character.  Its all dashed in a moments patching because they decide to completely rewrite the mechanics..or add in a whole new style of game play that was never designed to be there from the beginning (ala PvP - if PvP was supposed to be part of the game, it would have been designed in from Day 1..it was added simply to try to keep hold of some players who were leaving for other games with PvP).People have investments in these characters and the mechanics make it impossible to change to a character class that hasnt just been gutted without a complete rerolla dn spending the next 3-6 months adventuring alone until your of a high enough level to rejoin your friends ..these quests should be repeatable, but difficult and carry with them a decent negative hit (such as resetting of all spells and not being able to unattune equipment, or 100% debt) so that its not abused.  If i want to /respec my noodle fwapping Ranger to an Assassin, or Brigand, or hell to a Fury or a Wizard of a Guardian, I should be able to do that.</span></div>

[skidmark]

If a Guardian were to betray from Freeport to Qeynos but still stay a Guardian, would all of his CAs be reset to App 1 still? Since they would still be the same, I don't see why they should.

[Dr_Cyr]

I have one question as to specificity.Warlock -> Wizard is mentioned.Betrayal gives Necro -> Conj.<b><font color="#ff0000">What about within a city? Like (Qeynos based) Wizard -> Conjurer?</font></b>If not, why not?  Allowing War->Wiz, its only fair that Coercer->Necro or Conj->Wizard be allowed.  That is,  all moves WITHIN the <u>alignment and base type restrictions</u> (<i>i.e no mage to priest,so you <b>do not </b>see Illusionist to Templar, for example</i>) should be allowed.  So an SK could become a bruiser or a Pally a Monk.This would be allowable simply because there are huge imbalances in terms of "need".  I have a 50 guardian that's been set aside has not been played simply because there is a huge overstock of high level guardians in Freeport on my server. I'd love to make him into a bruiser or an SK, even if I lose all my armor and abilites and have to buy all my new lines and abilities up from Apprentice 1.  especially if I have a fairly long and involved set of quests as the like to do.Same goes for several templars in my guild.  When we form up a high end raid force, we frequently have too many of them even in a 24 person raid (and too many guardians as well).  Being able to quest thier way over to a Fury or Mystic, for example, would enable them to get in on more raids and high end content, instead of having to /random to fill that last slot.  Same goes with some of our Rangers who could take a path to brigand and fill a role thats not always filled on some raids instead of the overage of  Rangers we sometimes have.The other effect would be this: if you wanted to take your Freeport based Guardian, and turn him into a Paladin, you'd have to first change to an SK in Freeport incurring those penalties and doing  those quest, THEN betray over to Qeynos, incurring the penalties and doing the other set of quests.  So its would take considerable time, effort and sacrifice to so such a radical change within the archetype.Fair is fair - the system (*<i>if* it does not allow "lateral" moves within the alignment and archetype bounds</i>) should allow this sort of change, with a price and a non-trivial set of quests and time penalties.<div></div>

[Koehianna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dr_Cyrus wrote:I have one question as to specificity.Warlock -> Wizard is mentioned.Betrayal gives Necro -> Conj.<font color="#ff0000">What about within a city? Like (Qeynos based) Wizard -> Conjurer?</font>If not, why not?  Allowing <u><em><strong><font color="#ff0000">War->Wiz</font></strong></em></u>, its only fair that Coercer->Necro or Conj->Wizard be allowed.  That is,  all moves WITHIN the <u>alignment and base type restrictions</u> (<i>i.e no mage to priest,so you <b>do not </b>see Illusionist to Templar, for example</i>) should be allowed.  So an SK could become a bruiser or a Pally a Monk.This would be allowable simply because there are huge imbalances in terms of "need".  I have a 50 guardian that's been set aside has not been played simply because there is a huge overstock of high level guardians in Freeport on my server. I'd love to make him into a bruiser or an SK, even if I lose all my armor and abilites and have to buy all my new lines and abilities up from Apprentice 1.  especially if I have a fairly long and involved set of quests as the like to do.Same goes for several templars in my guild.  When we form up a high end raid force, we frequently have too many of them even in a 24 person raid (and too many guardians as well).  Being able to quest thier way over to a Fury or Mystic, for example, would enable them to get in on more raids and high end content, instead of having to /random to fill that last slot.  Same goes with some of our Rangers who could take a path to brigand and fill a role thats not always filled on some raids instead of the overage of  Rangers we sometimes have.The other effect would be this: if you wanted to take your Freeport based Guardian, and turn him into a Paladin, you'd have to first change to an SK in Freeport incurring those penalties and doing  those quest, THEN betray over to Qeynos, incurring the penalties and doing the other set of quests.  So its would take considerable time, effort and sacrifice to so such a radical change within the archetype.Fair is fair - the system (*<i>if* it does not allow "lateral" moves within the alignment and archetype bounds</i>) should allow this sort of change, with a price and a non-trivial set of quests and time penalties.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Umm.. Who said anything about allowing Warriors become Wizards?...  I personally do not want to see people changing their subclass completely (i.e. Necromancers to Coercers).  You chose your subclass for a reason, stick with it, if you don't want to, reroll your character. </p><p>Allowing people to change their subclass to the opposite allignment, however, is another matter.  Not only does it work gameplay-wise (i.e. Conjurors to Necromancers mean you're still Summoner, nothing too radical), but it does roleplay-wise too.</p><p>If you'd let people change their subclass completely why not let them repick their race and tradeskill too. >.<</p><p>Just doesn't make sense to me.</p>

[Dr_Cyr]

No, I was sayinn stay wihtin your type.  <b>No</b> warriors to wizards.Reroll or start over?Thats just it:Why should I have to reroll?   Wizards dont when they become Warlock.  Why shoudl a Coercer that want to be a Necro (semi-pet ot full pet on the evil side) have to reroll?Did you ever think that not everyoneis happy with their class?  Especially now that the classes are almost radically different from the whay they were at launch, or pre DoF?I really don't even recognize the Coercer class anymore compared to the release version I leveld up, and Warlocks have mutated completey away from single target to AE.  Not to mention my guardian who is parked becasue there are far too many of them due to their limited role now that they have been changed by all the updates.I can tell you whats wrong with your "level an alt": Not everyone has time to do that. The casual player has really been hurt by all the changes, and this gives a casual player (like my wife) a reason to come back to the game instead of playing warcraft or CoH.  She can take her guardian and change her into a bruiser.  That will get her more groups, a slot in raids, and so on.  As it stand now, there's no reason for her to evenhave her account open (other than the 2 alt I have on her account for dual boxing).And to be completely open, I really do not relish the though of pushing another toon thru 60+ levels only to find Sony tinkering wiht the class and its nothing like what I started with.If Sony  is goign to change the classes, why not let the players have a shot at questing laterally within their type?  They are already planning on allowing betrayals to change classes.  And other same-city quests to change within the archetype.  Why not stay within the type and alignment but allow those? I've given more than a few reasons from a game standpoint and a player standpoint why its a good idea.Can you say with specificity what is wrong with that, other than you dont like it?  Be interesting to see if there are any opposing points that cannot be mitigated.<div></div>

[Koehianna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dr_Cyrus wrote:Why should I have to reroll?   Wizards dont when they become Warlock.  Why shoudl a Coercer that want to be a Necro (semi-pet ot full pet on the evil side) have to reroll?<hr></blockquote>Wizards don't have to reroll because they're only becoming their opposite (without changing their class).  And neither do Coercers who want to become Illusionists.  They would if they wanted to become something completely different though. >.<

[x82nd77]

<div></div>Heres a question I havent heard asked yet... when we betray do we keep our AA/AP? 

[Magiocracy]

Would certainly be interested in hearing if this will be going live with LU21 - I have a 52 Warlock pretty much retired atm that I'd seriously consider changing to a Wizard in order to revive the character even though it might cost me a small fortune in rebuying spells.<div></div>

[Dr_Cyr]

<div></div>The change from Warlock to Wizard is just about the same degree as Chanter (as they exist NOW)  to Summoner.  Both have lots of similarities, but both require different playstyles from the losing class ot the gaining class.  Wiz-.War and vice versa are DPS but different emphasis.  Chanter->Summoner are pets but different emphasis.And changing  a coercer to an illusionist is NOT a real change at all - its still gimped, the same sorts of things are still broken, and roles are atill severely limited - both classes pretty much manabots in raids and can be replaced well enough by Bards (who heve a better line of buffs and lther group friendly things).  Just like a guardian - once you have 2 good ones in the guild, you dont need any more - so people can and will change away from them to Zerker (or bruiser/monk if allowed). After all, those reasons (better class usability, raid role, etc) is why Warlocks want to change to Wizard since there is no alignment change. So why not allow Coercer to Necro Or Illu to Conj, changing for the same reason (want to do a similar class and don't want to grind levels again)?  Chanter to Summoner - minor pet using class to major pet using class, within the same city, Coercer-> Necro or Illusionist->Conjuror, like Warlock (area DPS) to Wizard (target DPS) within the same city and no alignment changeI still see no solid ojections as to why if you allow one, you would not allow the other.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Dr_Cyrus on <span class="date_text">03-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:41 PM</span></p>

[Dr_Cyr]

Is there a date given yet for this to go live, and with what feature sets?<div></div>

[minionofdeath]

Well LU21 is due in a few days.  I'm starting to get anxious for this quest to go live.  It's been over a month now since Moorgard posted in this thread.  Can I ask when we can see this quest in game?<div></div>

[Verufian]

<div></div><p>and been months since they put this idea in our heads...</p><p>How about a little less PvP love and more RvP love?  The brig masters and adepts are overflowing my bank waiting for this.</p>

[Magu]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>minionofdeath wrote:Well LU21 is due in a few days.  I'm starting to get anxious for this quest to go live.  It's been over a month now since Moorgard posted in this thread.  Can I ask when we can see this quest in game?<div></div><hr></blockquote>When it's done. Stop trying to get a date.It won't be in LU21, and it may not be in LU22.They are NOT going to give you a date when they don't have one.</span></div>

[MasterAntsa]

So then we are able to betray at any level?<div></div>

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>skidmark wrote:If a Guardian were to betray from Freeport to Qeynos but still stay a Guardian, would all of his CAs be reset to App 1 still? Since they would still be the same, I don't see why they should.<hr></blockquote>It's the penalty for betraying, the cost of it -and- to make it fair for everyone.  Everyone resets to App 1 when they betray.</span><div></div>

[minionofdeath]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>minionofdeath wrote:Well LU21 is due in a few days.  I'm starting to get anxious for this quest to go live.  It's been over a month now since Moorgard posted in this thread.  Can I ask when we can see this quest in game?<div></div><hr></blockquote>When it's done. Stop trying to get a date.It won't be in LU21, and it may not be in LU22.They are NOT going to give you a date when they don't have one.</span></div><hr></blockquote>In a sense you are right Magus, but there's not problem in asking.  There are now Class specific hat quests in game, Relic armor and other such things that will be meaningless when people betray.  I've been holding off on doing these quests and so on, but for how long?  3 months?  6 months?  It's not unreasonable to ask now is it.  The only reason I'm still playing this game is with this carrot of being able to betray.  And I know I'm not alone on that one.</span></div>

[Verufian]

<div>No you aren't alone.  The fact that the carrot was dangled roughly 6 months ago, and yet they continue to hotfix PvP is irritating. </div>

[Magu]

3 months, not 6.And obviously they can work on more then one thing at once.Someone is working on the new betrayal, and others are working on PvP/etc, and others are working on other fixes.<div></div>

[IA~CHAOS]

<div>I am personally also waiting for this update....I understand its tough and I hope its introduced soon, but I am being patient.  I want every day to be a dirge, infact i have bought masters for my soon to be dirge.  Maybe a progress update, is sony still considering this? If we heard some info that it is still coming we would not feel like they dropped a chocolate cake in our lap with our hands tied behind our back.</div><div> </div>

[Magu]

<div></div>They're not considering it, they ARE implementing it.You just need to wait for the quest to be done. It's not like they are just adding one NPC where you click a few buttons and it changes you over.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Magus` on <span class="date_text">03-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:09 PM</span></p>

[IA~CHAOS]

<div></div>Realy not so much that i am worried if they ARE...its that they havent said anything since they said they are.  I am not too worried but it would be cool to hear them say, "its otw guess" <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Magu]

Why? It wouldn't change a thing. They said it's going to be added and that they're working on it.What use is a progress update that merely says "yes we're still working on it" ?It leaves you exactly where you are now - it's on the way, and you just need to have patience and wait.<div></div>

[IA~CHAOS]

<div></div>Got the patient part down, np, sure it doesnt do much for us but just like the relative that hardly contacts you its nice to know they hear us.  Believe me, I am not argueing that is should come now, or they should tell us the exact date, its that notice thats nice.  Your probably different in that you dont need or want it, but some of us do.  thx tho.

[Sir Blig]

<div></div><div><p><span>Knowing that it is still being worked on would be nice,</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Why?</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>They said there would be guild housing, is there any? Are they still working on it?</span></p><p><span>They showed carpets flying up high in the adverts, do they? or are they still working on it?</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Have they never shelved an idea they worked on or once completed found they no longer liked it? i.e. why don’t / cant carpets change altitude same goes for shapeshifting into birds and bee’s and any other flying form, some enemies we fight can do it so why cant we and again it was advertised or shown in the adverts.</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Those are but a few, </span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>I am sure a good few things seen in beta have not been put in the game.</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>But it does seem the way SOE works; it means they don’t have to be accountable</span></p></div>

[Magu]

They have already stated that flight will never be available in game. No flying, no levitation, no carpets that let you go up higher, nothing.<div></div>

[Rijacki]

The high flying carpets are the ones which are not player controlled.  They're the transportation ones.  Those, like some griffon paths, fly rather high over the ground.<div></div>

[Sir Blig]

<div></div><p>The Ref to flying was from the movie short they released for Dof were they showed I think a gnome flying around and engaging in combat, also the Sha'ir are able to fly and in the latest loads of the flying sentient things fly up high and agro from high so why cant we.</p><p>So to “They have already stated that flight will never be available in game. No flying, no levitation, no carpets that let you go up higher, nothing.”</p><p>They entertained the idea and changed their minds.</p><p>Last I recall they scraped it because they could not master the mechanics v the exploit factor.</p><p>So short of picking just one of the two quoted examples, maybe you can answer why they never delivered guild halls?</p><p>But the reason I mentioned any of that was without a delivery date or a specified LU they have not committed too much, they have simply said ”We anticipate it will arrive in the next update or two after LU20. That's subject to change, of course.”</p><p>All we have is an anticipated and “That's subject to change, of course”</p><p>How far are theyWhat Beta LU are we likely to see some tests (some of 21 is in beta so can we say 22)And hmm are they still working on it</p>

[Supp]

<div>I'm bumping this thread as it seems to most directly relate to my area of interest AND moorgard has replied in it.</div><div> </div><div>      I wish to switch (not betray) my Qeynosian Warden to a Qeynosian Fury and have some particular points of interest that I hope dont get glazed over...</div><div> </div><ul><li>My character is qeynosian, and I want her to remain that way when I switch (not betray) her to a Fury. If I have to betray her twice and just not choose warden when I come back to qeynos, then so be it, but I would hope they implement switching without the need to betray. Having to go through it twice is an annoyance.</li><li>On that same point, my warden has a Hall in SQ loaded with incredible things. If I have to betray twice, are it and its contents safe and secure while I'm away from qeynos? Yeah sure, I could throw everything into an alt's house, but DUDE, everything's perfectly placed. I dont want to move it. I would like that specific question answered if I have to betray twice, and that's the kind of specific question that never gets documented.</li><li>I didnt wait on my class hat quest. I have the hat, but Im pretty sure if I petition SOE, they will give me the Fury hat since the quest is done and cannot be repeated. The relic gear question is obvious, you'd just lose it. I say it's obvious because you can just get more. I'm likewise holding off on adept3's/masters.</li></ul>

[Sir Blig]

<div></div><p>on the house one, unless they change it, it should be kept, I forgot to cancel my rent during a betrayal awile ago and before I could rent a place in Freeport I had to sneak into Qeynos and cancel it, it gave the whole you can have two places message.</p><p> </p><p>but conformation that this has not changed will be nice</p>

[Supp]

<div></div><div>Double posted. Refer to below.</div><p>Message Edited by Supple on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:17 AM</span></p>

[Supp]

<div>Absolutely Sir Blight,</div><div> </div><div>I also had forgotten to release a house on a toon once and had to sneak back in. But that was a long time ago and this is a hall loaded with 50p worth of replaceables and irreplaceables. I simply must know for certain.</div>

[Shokahn]

<cite>Moorgard wrote:</cite><blockquote> <blockquote> <hr />minionofdeath wrote: Since reading Svartmane's comments...<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=343" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"></a> <span style="color: #ffff00">When the <i>NEW </i>betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change to their correlating class (ie Warlock -> Wizard) <i>without </i>betraying.  The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) <i>would </i>still apply in this situation however.</span> I've been giddy with excitement and can't wait for this change to go live.  Is there a timeframe of when this may go live?  I'm finding myself logging into the forums several times a day now looking for info on this.  I'm dying to know anything, something, a small morsel, a tidbit, just something lol. <hr /> </blockquote> We anticipate it will arrive in the next update or two after LU20. That's subject to change, of course. <p>This isn't just about modifying a couple of existing quests; it will be a complete rework of the system with some rather interesting new additions to it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote> Did this ever make it into the live game? I have a Qeynosian guardian that I want to change to berserker but I want to stay in Qeynos.

[Jal]

<cite>Shokahn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Moorgard wrote:</cite><blockquote> <blockquote> <hr />minionofdeath wrote: Since reading Svartmane's comments...<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=343" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"></a> <span style="color: #ffff00">When the <i>NEW </i>betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change to their correlating class (ie Warlock -> Wizard) <i>without </i>betraying.  The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) <i>would </i>still apply in this situation however.</span> I've been giddy with excitement and can't wait for this change to go live.  Is there a timeframe of when this may go live?  I'm finding myself logging into the forums several times a day now looking for info on this.  I'm dying to know anything, something, a small morsel, a tidbit, just something lol. <hr /> </blockquote> We anticipate it will arrive in the next update or two after LU20. That's subject to change, of course. <p>This isn't just about modifying a couple of existing quests; it will be a complete rework of the system with some rather interesting new additions to it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote> Did this ever make it into the live game? I have a Qeynosian guardian that I want to change to berserker but I want to stay in Qeynos. </blockquote>Yes, betray to haven then earn faction back with Qeynos instead of freeport.

[joebyrdw]

<cite>Shokahn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Moorgard wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote> <hr />minionofdeath wrote: Since reading Svartmane's comments...<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=343" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"></a> <span style="color: #ffff00">When the <i>NEW </i>betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change to their correlating class (ie Warlock -> Wizard) <i>without </i>betraying.  The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) <i>would </i>still apply in this situation however.</span> I've been giddy with excitement and can't wait for this change to go live.  Is there a timeframe of when this may go live?  I'm finding myself logging into the forums several times a day now looking for info on this.  I'm dying to know anything, something, a small morsel, a tidbit, just something lol. <hr /> </blockquote> We anticipate it will arrive in the next update or two after LU20. That's subject to change, of course. <p>This isn't just about modifying a couple of existing quests; it will be a complete rework of the system with some rather interesting new additions to it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote> Did this ever make it into the live game? I have a Qeynosian guardian that I want to change to berserker but I want to stay in Qeynos. </blockquote><p> I think this is the King of the Necro posts. <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>From April 06 to June 07!</p>

[Forsaken1]

Wow, this post is so old it's fossilized....

[Bozidar]

<p>I was talking to some guildies in vent last night about this.  I didn't know it had been posted already, a year ago <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Devs -- Allow folks to change from classes like wiz-warlock w/o a betrayal quest.  I love my city, I don't want to change cities, I just want to change the manner in which i practice magic.. </p>

[Rijacki]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I was talking to some guildies in vent last night about this.  I didn't know it had been posted already, a year ago <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Devs -- Allow folks to change from classes like wiz-warlock w/o a betrayal quest.  I love my city, I don't want to change cities, I just want to change the manner in which i practice magic.. </p></blockquote> You don't need to change cities, but you do have to betray and regain faction with your city.  But, you can return to the same city you left (but your spells/CAs are still reset to App I).

[Bozidar]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I was talking to some guildies in vent last night about this.  I didn't know it had been posted already, a year ago <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Devs -- Allow folks to change from classes like wiz-warlock w/o a betrayal quest.  I love my city, I don't want to change cities, I just want to change the manner in which i practice magic.. </p></blockquote> You don't need to change cities, but you do have to betray and regain faction with your city.  But, you can return to the same city you left (but your spells/CAs are still reset to App I). </blockquote><p> Translation _ i have to betray my city.</p><p>When you betray you lose all PvP faction that you've worked on- as it should be.  But if i want to swap my wizard into a warlock i have to stick a banana in the overlord's tail pipe, then make it up to him and suddenly.. swoosh.. i'm a warlock?</p><p>It's dumb.. just let us swap =P</p>

[Firecracker]

<p>I would like to have the option to be able to do this quest line you speak of but gives us the option of switching to any type class within the type of class they are like if they are: mages=can change to any mage,priest= can change to any priest, fighter= can change into any fighter, and scout= can change into any scout as long as it with in it's faction like only evil can change to an evil class and vise versa for the good side but it works like the betrayal you lose any upgrades made on spells or abilities</p><p>Welcome to give any feedback on this</p>