Continuing to make the game easier! does it end?

[klepp]

<div></div><div>my god, if people really dont like things to be time consuming, or challenging, or have risk vs reward... might as well put in /godmode for the folks that want to be uber w/ no work involved or whatever the case may be.</div><div>I quit once and you guys are driving me to again, i know im only 1 person but i know im not th eonly one who feels this way.i could go down the list of things youve already changed to make the game easier but thats all done and gone and id be bringing up old arguements.  So for the sake of that i wont..</div><div> </div><div>However, now you want to take out subcombines?  [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for?  what purpose does that serve?  Ooooh yea making it easier for someone to level a tradeskiller, thus bringing more crafted stuff to the market and making it easier for high level botters ect.  Great way to get the economy rollin, kinda li ke ffxi's /sarcasm off</div><div>Then you want to take the hq crafted items and make them easier to make?  As if taking the required rare out wasnt enough?  Good god..</div><div> </div><div>and a Teleporter within Sol Eye?  Hell im not gonan even ask!  The one from lava to sol eye wasnt enough?  I thought you werent giving players teleport spells so there would be some challenge.. This game is basically click n zoom around.  Now even in dungeons?  High end dungeons??   Am i the only one who feels this way??</div><div> </div><div>there is no risk vs reward, there is no being rewarded for skill.  Hell ya got pickup raids romping through GoAA, so sad..</div><p>Message Edited by klepp on <span class="date_text">02-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:05 AM</span></p>

[DarkLegacy2005]

<div></div><p>what you mentioned above is the classical(and when I mean classical, I mean brought up about 500000000000000000000000 times already, on this forum alone) arguement about whether or not a timesink is challenging. They havent made the game easier in the examples you provided, they've made it less time consuming.  So in other words, no, I dont feel like the game is getting easier, in a lot of aspects, but in some I do.</p><p>Do I wish they would make bad decisions punish you more? Yes, but it all comes down to timesinks. If they made you get 30% xp debt when you died instead of the 2 now... its just a time sink. /camp for a day and it'll be gone. Maybe you drop an item when you die.... but then again you got it once, you can get it again.</p><p>My point is, there are some things that are mindless timesinks in the game atm... building those trivial parts to get the main part is one imho. Others, such as death, are not. The 'timesink' may not add challenge, but it does add risk. That comes to another point, with risk there should be reward. Hence, a balance. If you survive for x amount of ingame even con+ battles without dieing you should get a reward. XP boost... 'You are starting to better understand your abilities'. But you should also get punished for dieing ( hand reaches outta computer monitor and slaps you, =P). Im sure the Dev's can think of something. Although this is a major reason I am joining the PvP server, to get a sting back in death.</p><p>It will be interesting to see what the Dev's do because they are trying to cater to those like you and me, and those that would like a game that they can reach level 60 in with only spending a small amount of time playing a day. Hard to balance that. Overall though, I believe the Dev's to be doing a fantastic job and their continued updates for EQ2 and their demeanor in the forums about gameplay issues have me satisfied about the longevity and health of this game. I may be upset by one or two things, but I know that they keep working to make this game just a little bit better for all of us. just my 2 cents.</p><p> </p>

[Magu]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div><div> </div><div>and a Teleporter within Sol Eye?  Hell im not gonan even ask!  The one from lava to sol eye wasnt enough?  I thought you werent giving players teleport spells so there would be some challenge.. This game is basically click n zoom around.  Now even in dungeons?  High end dungeons??  </div><hr></blockquote>It only goes to the speaker room. If it went all the way to Naggy, that'd be a possible complaint, but it doesn't.</span></div>

[klepp]

<div></div><p>so you mean to tell me... not having to travel to the bottom of sol eye and risk dying or getting killed or adventering down there isnt making hte game easier?   [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] taking out timesinks?? ok ill bite.... we all know they want our money so if timesink was the name of the game, wouldnt they keep them? lol </p><p>not to derail but ok, timesinks.... do you see me whining about not having as much money as the guy who can sit on eq2 for 12 hours  a day?  NO  because he should.  Im a casual.  I work fulltime and some, im a hobbyist bodybuilder (straight from work to the gym for 2 hrs)  then after i shower and cook i get a few hours a night on eq2.    I'm screaming for just the opposite of what theyre doing.  Is ok, i'll head to vanguard along w/ folks like me im sure.   They  really dumb'd this down si nce launch whether you see it or not.</p>

[klepp]

<div></div><p>ah.. to the speaker room isnt really "all the way"  but it is about 1/2... still would rather not have it, but my opinion wont matter so =) </p><p> </p><p>and to the guy who posted after me, sorry i didnt read your whole thread =p i was in rant mode when i replied so sorry if it seemed like i personally attacked= p</p><p>as for pvp servers. id love to go as well.. but that'd mean leaving my guild ect which unfortunately i cannot do.</p>

[Gorhauth]

<span><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div><p>ah.. to the speaker room isnt really "all the way"  but it is about 1/2... still would rather not have it, but my opinion wont matter so =)</p><hr></blockquote>Because a 60 passing mostly gray mobs on the way to the Speaker Room is a challenge?  If you feel that is a challenge, go ahead and don't take the portal.  All it really does is removes the time it takes to follow a path through stuff you've probably already seen a thousand times, to get to a place you've been before and have no intention of killing anything anyway.Although, if you feel passing through a ton of grays and few greens is a challenge... /boggle.</span><div></div>

[Magu]

klepp, have you tried to go to naggy since the revamp of sol eye?Every last giant sees invis. This means even a level 60 can't just walk down anymore, you have to fight the entire way from Speaker room.All the portal does is make it quicker to get to the hard part.<div></div>

[SniperKitty]

Tedious does not equal challenging.Timesink does not equal effort.Both of the above artificial methods have been used extensively in many online games to try and prolong the life of the game and keep people around.  Howver, imo, it's the worst way to design a game.  All a timesink does is force people to sit around twiddling their thumbs and getting frustrated.  If the timesink is bad enough (VT shards on EQ1) it drives even casual gamers away from completing that quest.Games are meant to be entertainment.  Not a second job.  I've said this many times.  If I wanted a second job, I'd go get one and get paid for it... not pay to play a game and be forced to treat it like a second job.Timesinks and tedious tasks are boring.  Boring is like the opposite of entertaining.  I am glad they are reducing the tedium of playing the game and allowing us to get to the fun, challenging parts faster.  That does not mean I want everything handed to me on a silver platter.  I want to be challenged.  I want to fight for what I earn.  Not work.<div></div>

[Tanit]

Fighting to the end of SE is work that costs effort even though it's easy. And a quest like the prismatic should require a lot of work.<div></div>

[klepp]

<div></div>no but everyone under 60 it is.. cmon now man.. maybe there should be a command that you can /portme XXX   that make ya happy? no timesinks no travel right?  sheeesh back to ff3 with ya

[klepp]

<div></div>and no i havent been to him since revamp, they made giants see invis?    im kinda neutral on that.. i dont mind it, makes it hard and makes it an accomplishment to get down there.. specially for first timers.  On the flipside classes that have invis should be ableto use it.    If ya grey stuff out, good for you i mean.. it is t5 content... people gonna expect portals around DoF stuff once t7 hits since theyre just gonna be greyin all this out too ?

[Wolfgaarr]

<div></div>But soon it will be a bunch of ppl 60 -70 so a lot will be grayed out and easily passed.

[klepp]

<div></div><p>hey sniper, why dont you explain challenge to me then?  Whats challenging in eq?    Certainly not affected by skills of players via the uni-classes we have.  I remember when a buddy of mine said he played eq and quit, when i sked him why i said all the classes were the same.  I couldnt argue much.  In eq a chanter was special cause they could mez.  in eq2 flipping bruisers can mez for gods sake.  well as bard, wiz, yada yada...    Anyhow thats off topic.  Go ahead and tell me about challenge?  soloing a heroic named around your level, sure.. for treasured loot.. pointless.   There has to be something to define the dubbed "elite" from teh dubbed "casual" </p><p> </p><p>this game should be knocked down to a flippin age 7+ rating, theyre making it elementary school friendly for goodness sake</p>

[Badtidings]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div><p>hey sniper, why dont you explain challenge to me then?  Whats challenging in eq?    Certainly not affected by skills of players via the uni-classes we have.  I remember when a buddy of mine said he played eq and quit, when i sked him why i said all the classes were the same.  I couldnt argue much.  In eq a chanter was special cause they could mez.  in eq2 flipping bruisers can mez for gods sake.  well as bard, wiz, yada yada...    Anyhow thats off topic.  Go ahead and tell me about challenge?  soloing a heroic named around your level, sure.. for treasured loot.. pointless.   <strong>There has to be something to define the dubbed "elite" from teh dubbed "casual" </strong></p><p>this game should be knocked down to a flippin age 7+ rating, theyre making it elementary school friendly for goodness sake</p><hr></blockquote><p>That raises an interesting question. In sports, we have players we define as 'elite' and players we define as 'casual'... what makes the 'elite' players better? Do they have better gear? Tiger Woods doesn't have a 'fabled' five iron, Tiger Woods makes a five iron 'fabled' by touching it. In business we have leaders we define as 'elite' versus 'casual'... what make them 'elite?' Lou Gerstner didn't have a 'fabled' guild in IBM, but he made IBM 'fabled' again.</p><p>The problem is, how does one translate leadership and character into a game? How does one recognize dedication? Does clumping up into gangs and beating something over and over again equal dedication? If a solo player can't beat a solo mob in the first ten tries but comes back for an 11th and wins, are they not rising to a challenge by improving their technique? Would running out and getting better gear to trivialize the encounter make them more respectable than the first course of action?</p><p>You appear to be asking for an obvious visual indicator to show that one person is more dedicated than another. But what yardstick measures dedication?</p><p>Message Edited by Badtidings on <span class="date_text">02-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:21 AM</span></p>

[SniperKitty]

Ya wanna know what would really make the game challenging?  Put everyone on similar levels of dps.  Then get rid of taunt completely.  There's challenge.  Of coure we'd have to give the paper tissue classes something a little better.  Maybe newspaper armor would work.  Taunt and the mechanic around it is the one thing that really trivializes this game.In D&D, there is no taunt.  Any class can achieve a sky high armor class.  The true measure of the beating a person can take is their hit points.  So again, remove taunt.  Give everyone roughly equal dps and you bring back challenge into the game.<div></div>

[Proudfoot]

<span><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div><p>There has to be something to define the dubbed "elite" from teh dubbed "casual" </p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>I pay the same $15 a month for this game. If you want to try and be important, this is not the medium to do so.Real life is where desegregation is, not here. No color, no religions, just man/woman. Grow up and start 'playing' and stop 'competing'.You are not better than anyone else in the game-world. Stop trying to be.I'll be so glad when the PvP servers come up so all these underdeveloped boys can go flex there manhood there.</span><div></div>

[Amise]

<span><blockquote><hr>Wolfgaarr wrote:<div></div>But soon it will be a bunch of ppl 60 -70 so a lot will be grayed out and easily passed.<hr></blockquote>60+ will not grey mobs out for those of lower level due to the recent change in rules for greying out mobs while grouped.  And unless you are a 60+ priest or caster you will not want prismatic anyway, since the weapons themselves will be grey.  And if you ARE 60+ and doing prismatic then according to the rules of the game it will indeed be substantially easier to complete the quest, as it should be.  Why on earth it bothers anyone that 60+ people can wander in Sol's Eye and not agro grey mobs, I'll never know.</span><div></div>

[klepp]

<div></div>umm proudfoot, your right we both pay 15 a month.. so if you want to pay it and suck, thats fine by me, i play to be better than most.  And by a reflection of my completed quests, the things ive solo'd, my gear, my status... i am.  Its what im after.  I think i have thousands that will back me when i say that "casuals" by most peples definition should [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if they think they should have all the same luxeries as a person who plays 14 hours a day.  And dont give me the get a life arguement.  I work 45 hours a week, im an amateur bodybuilder and i have housework to do after that.   I get a few hours a day and a little bit more on teh weekends.   See me crying cause the guy who is still in school and lives in moms basement has more? nope he should.. .he sacrifices the things i dont.  Same as real life... one person could spend there life partying,  another going to school but missing out on all the cool parties ect.   The partyer shouldnt be bitter towarfds the guy who worked his rear off.    Get a clue... theyre making this game too casual friendly.  Let me guess, your either A) one of those from WoW B) one of those who this is there first MMO or C) just one of thsoe folks who doesnt want to sacrifice and invest whats needed to obtain XX item, and would rather have it made easier or doable quicker. 

[btennison]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>umm proudfoot, your right we both pay 15 a month.. so if you want to pay it and suck, thats fine by me, i play to be better than most.  And by a reflection of my completed quests, the things ive solo'd, my gear, my status... i am.  Its what im after.  I think i have thousands that will back me when i say that "casuals" by most peples definition should [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if they think they should have all the same luxeries as a person who plays 14 hours a day.  And dont give me the get a life arguement.  I work 45 hours a week, im an amateur bodybuilder and i have housework to do after that.   I get a few hours a day and a little bit more on teh weekends.   See me crying cause the guy who is still in school and lives in moms basement has more? nope he should.. .he sacrifices the things i dont.  Same as real life... one person could spend there life partying,  another going to school but missing out on all the cool parties ect.   The partyer shouldnt be bitter towarfds the guy who worked his rear off.    Get a clue... theyre making this game too casual friendly.  Let me guess, your either A) one of those from WoW B) one of those who this is there first MMO or C) just one of thsoe folks who doesnt want to sacrifice and invest whats needed to obtain XX item, and would rather have it made easier or doable quicker. <hr></blockquote>Stupid argument. I suppose suppose the fat [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] who sits on a bar stool for 14 hours a day should get his beer for the same price as the "casual" drinker who drops in for an hour after work. After all he's "sacrficing" so much more, ROFLMAO!

[megaira13]

How often are you planning to spend quality time in SE?  Is this a favorite vacation spot?The zone lags out if there's more than 10 players in it, in the first place, adding plenty of substantial risk to players.Everything is see invis, from giants to miners to efreeti.  A 60 in a group "grays out" mobs, however, lower levels that would get agged, will get agged...and added bonus: the 60 doesn't see the red line, and therefore will not know until experiance teaches them, what is agro to their group members or not.   Not to mention this, the ag mobs will ag those they'd normally attack, so they'll run right past said lvl 60 and gnaw on the 53.I'm a Fury.  The minute I hit 45, I had a new job as everyone's invis bot to Naggy.  I've done more runs down there than I can possibly count for my prismatic, my guildies prismatics, my friends prismatics, their guildies prismatics.  I'm not exaggerating when I say I have dreams about SE.  Until EQ2map, I got lost regularily in the Down Below and I can still find my way down to Naggy in my sleep.Pre-DoF, with the runspeed buffs and invis working, it took us 25-30 minutes to get down with at least one reinvis break (tunnel before speaker's room).   That's running past everything and that was, IMO, "too easy."   Unless someone broke invis and you died and had to go get a shard, in which case, it was usually the snowball being pushed off the top of the hill.After revamps and fixes and this that the other thing, where some mobs became see invis, the run doubled even with invis, due to the see invis flamestalkers who spawn in different torches after they're killed, and efreeti (who we eventually were able to squeak past).   Still fairly easy, with the exception, again, for death and shard runs.Last weekend, we did rune and naggy runs for those that needed prismatics.   The night before, I'd managed to get my 49 monk in w/a 60 monk friend before the patch and we made it down in about 45 minutes with chameleon totems and FD.    Pretty easy.Post patch, with the new ag rules and see invis, with a full group, it took about an hour to get to the Glass Room because not only did we have to clear everything, but we had adds out the wazoo from people backing into stuff.   Not easy.The Naggy run was a complete and total nightmare.  We ended up having 2 tanks stay in the zone for over 4 hours between the rune runs and naggy runs, going up and helping people get back down.   At one point we thought well, we'll take the conjurer down and CotH everyone to Naggy -because the initial trip and 8 minute recast timer on CotH would have still taken less time than running a whole group down there.The one perk I will say, was that without missing shards now, they've taken hours off of SE torture.  With the see invis and ag rules, it has become sort of a wash, timewise, between SE runs with deaths/shard recoveries and SE runs with see invis.Here's what goes on in SE:You get halfway down, someone wants to join your group to either get to point a. or point b. because they're stuck.  At that point, do you take pity and go back up (unleashing the inevitable string of bad luck in SE), or get mercenary (hoping to avoid total chaos)?People lag out & LD in the zone like nuts - so even if you're clearing away at a good pace, inevitably, you'll have a *minimum* of another 30 minutes added on to any SE trip due to the LD's, lagging, and clearing to get back to bodies, or groupmates logging in.Even where you can invis, it will be broken or someone will get agged by a see invis mob. If by horrid chance your entire group does wipe - which is inevitable in SE at some point or another, given that there are nameds to be run into here and there and everywhere, much less said see invis mobs as well as adds, etc.... you are always starting at the top.This is, unless I am mistaken, the deepest dungeon in the game.  It has lag, lava, see invis mobs, bugged mobs that get stuck in walls and is literally a maze from top to bottom.   People will spend hours in there on the LLoLS, GEBS, Prismatic, BoF access, and other quests as it is.Putting a teleporter halfway down is going to make it *too* easy?   It may make it easier, but rest assured the zone won't be trivialized.   What it may ultimately do, btw, is clear up some lag, as several groups bottlenecked up top trying to get past mobs may cause more lag than them spread out over the zone.  Just a theory.The only downside I see to the teleporter is: makes it easier for farmers to get to nameds faster (for the above reasons though, it is not a very feasible zone to farm), makes it easier for raids to get to Nagalik (and one day naggy, I assume).For the average player in the game, this is a godsend - particularily for those having to try to get back to lower areas after a wipe.  I've long wanted them to put in a respawn point at least somewhere halfway down.All of this said, I had originally heard the teleporter was to an instanced zone, btw, not to transport you back up top.  

[OperationsX]

<div></div>To answer the OP, nope it wont end till they have more subcribers than WOW, IE, it will never end.

[klepp]

<div>lol bten.  I hate personally attacking but, folks like you are why this game is getting worse and worse.  So yea.. uh huh.. i guess the guy who plays 3 hours a week shoud most defeintely have the same items at their disposal as someone who plays all day.  yep this is just like the bar.  cmon dude.. sheeesh.   I guess your a first time mmo'er?   go back to ff7, its a great game and you can run the show, paus it when ya want, and be as uber as ya make yourself out to be.   man talk about frustrated w/ kiddies.</div>

[sharz]

dont think they care if its easy i dont care lol<div></div>

[Suraklin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>umm proudfoot, your right we both pay 15 a month.. <font color="#cc0033">so if you want to pay it and suck, thats fine by me, i play to be better than most.</font>  And by a reflection of my completed quests, the things ive solo'd, my gear, my status... i am.  Its what im after.  I think i have thousands that will back me when i say that "casuals" by most peples definition should [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if they think they should have all the same luxeries as a person who plays 14 hours a day.  And dont give me the get a life arguement.  I work 45 hours a week, im an amateur bodybuilder and i have housework to do after that.   I get a few hours a day and a little bit more on teh weekends.   See me crying cause the guy who is still in school and lives in moms basement has more? nope he should.. .he sacrifices the things i dont.  Same as real life... one person could spend there life partying,  another going to school but missing out on all the cool parties ect.   The partyer shouldnt be bitter towarfds the guy who worked his rear off.    Get a clue... theyre making this game too casual friendly.  Let me guess, your either A) one of those from WoW B) one of those who this is there first MMO or C) just one of thsoe folks who doesnt want to sacrifice and invest whats needed to obtain XX item, and would rather have it made easier or doable quicker. <hr></blockquote>You play a video game to be better than most?? That's a really really sad comment there. Your life must really suck if you have to be better than most by playing a video game cause you can't be better than most in real life.

[Kraenor]

For crafting I would argue that they are making it easier, not just less tedious. Less combines means that you now have less chances of screwing up a pristine and only need to get one combine right for the product to turn out the way you want.<div></div>

[Magu]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div>lol bten.  I hate personally attacking but, folks like you are why this game is getting worse and worse.  So yea.. uh huh.. i guess the guy who plays 3 hours a week shoud most defeintely have the same items at their disposal as someone who plays all day.  yep this is just like the bar.  cmon dude.. sheeesh.   I guess your a first time mmo'er?   go back to ff7, its a great game and you can run the show, paus it when ya want, and be as uber as ya make yourself out to be.   man talk about frustrated w/ kiddies.</div><hr></blockquote>If you think it's getting worse and worse, maybe this isn't the game for you.</span></div>

[jarlaxle8]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>... Let me guess, your either A) one of those from WoW B) one of those who this is there first MMO or C) just one of thsoe folks who doesnt want to sacrifice and invest whats needed to obtain XX item, and would rather have it made easier or doable quicker. <hr></blockquote><p>again, one of those people who talk about 'elite' and 'beeing better' and 'invest something' and all that stuff...</p><p>look, i don't come from WoW. and not from FFwhatever, or any other of 'those easy MMOs'. i come from EQ1. and what you are argueing for is utter BS. you talk about 'easy' or 'hard', but all you are argueing for is time invested and how many people will back you up. cause that was one of the so-called 'challenges' of EQ1.</p><p>to get item xx you want 'challenge'? well, the way you seem to think about what a challenge is, it turns out like this:to get item A, you go solo and spend X amount of time. to get item B, you get a group and spend Y amount of time. and to get item C, you get a raid and spend Z amount of time. but where is the challenge there? in the end, you can get anything, even if you are an OK player, not bad, but not elite either. as long as you have the time and the people to back you up, it's possible. IMO, this is not really fun and a way to measure 'elite' vs. 'common'.</p><p>tradeskill: i leveled as woodworker to level 50. never di i feel any challenge in making all those intermediates. it just sucked. i made more reagents, tempers, oils and washes then wooden stuff. what am i, an alchemist? just plain useless and didn't serve to make the game more challenging.</p><p>as for sols eye: go there and have a look. before, i could stealth down pretty far. the first real trouble were the stalkers in the giant area. now i can't even get to the lift without beeing jumped by one of those many mobs which can see stealth. talk about beeing a scout and all stealthy and that crap. scout what? my back yard perhaps, that seems quite safe... so saying that got easier is plain wrong.</p><p>---------------------------<a target="_self" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</p><p> </p>

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>jarlaxle888 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>... Let me guess, your either A) one of those from WoW B) one of those who this is there first MMO or C) just one of thsoe folks who doesnt want to sacrifice and invest whats needed to obtain XX item, and would rather have it made easier or doable quicker. <hr></blockquote><p>again, one of those people who talk about 'elite' and 'beeing better' and 'invest something' and all that stuff...</p><p>look, i don't come from WoW. <font color="#ffff00">and not from FFwhatever, or any other of 'those easy MMOs'</font>. i come from EQ1. and what you are argueing for is utter BS. you talk about 'easy' or 'hard', but all you are argueing for is time invested and how many people will back you up. cause that was one of the so-called 'challenges' of EQ1.</p><p>to get item xx you want 'challenge'? well, the way you seem to think about what a challenge is, it turns out like this:to get item A, you go solo and spend X amount of time. to get item B, you get a group and spend Y amount of time. and to get item C, you get a raid and spend Z amount of time. but where is the challenge there? in the end, you can get anything, even if you are an OK player, not bad, but not elite either. as long as you have the time and the people to back you up, it's possible. IMO, this is not really fun and a way to measure 'elite' vs. 'common'.</p><p>tradeskill: i leveled as woodworker to level 50. never di i feel any challenge in making all those intermediates. it just sucked. i made more reagents, tempers, oils and washes then wooden stuff. what am i, an alchemist? just plain useless and didn't serve to make the game more challenging.</p><p>as for sols eye: go there and have a look. before, i could stealth down pretty far. the first real trouble were the stalkers in the giant area. now i can't even get to the lift without beeing jumped by one of those many mobs which can see stealth. talk about beeing a scout and all stealthy and that crap. scout what? my back yard perhaps, that seems quite safe... so saying that got easier is plain wrong.</p><p>---------------------------<a target="_self" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>OMG did you just use FF and easy in the same sentence? lol

[jarlaxle8]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kenazeer wrote:<div></div>OMG did you just use FF and easy in the same sentence? lol<hr></blockquote><p>lol. don't worry, didn't mean it like that. i just noticed that 'go to FFXY' popped up several times in these posts. i meant that ironic, so i put the 'those easy MMOs' in apostrophes.  :smileyhappy:</p><p>---------------------------<a target="_self" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</p>

[LanatirInno]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div>lol bten.  I hate personally attacking but, folks like you are why this game is getting worse and worse.  So yea.. uh huh.. i guess the guy who plays 3 hours a week shoud most defeintely have the same items at their disposal as someone who plays all day.  yep this is just like the bar.  cmon dude.. sheeesh.   I guess your a first time mmo'er?   go back to ff7, its a great game and you can run the show, paus it when ya want, and be as uber as ya make yourself out to be.   man talk about frustrated w/ kiddies.</div><hr></blockquote>Man. you know. i am seriously wondering...do you have a shrink? If not, i can give you a few adresses.

[Sunlei]

<div></div><p> I do agree with you about some things becoming "easier" especially for the new starting players. Many, many are entering eq2 from other even easier games. I think it's a very good plan for those new players to quickly develop low level characters they become attached to so the eq2 game will retain players for many years to come(I hope they learn character love)</p><p>However I disagree with you about "Teleporter within Sol Eye" making that zone easier.</p><p>Easier then it is right now today, yes. But it it not nor ever will be as "easy" as the game was the first 6-7 months.</p><p>Remember the first 6-7 months of the game NOTHING saw invis. nothing,, many monsters were not even aggro. Plenty of people got to 50 having no aggro and a guarranteed 100% invis. Many people got to 50 being almost immune to damage too.</p><p>These things have been changed lu 13 and up, making the game harder, not easier. How can you say adding see-invis. mobs made the game easier when for the first 7 months nothing saw invis?</p>

[Flor]

<div></div><p>In response to the OP, I like the way this game is going.  I've played a long line of MMORPGs so have some basis of comparison.  I played EQ2 at launch, hated it for a variety of reasons (mostly my limited playing time and the huge dependence on groups to do anything meaningful and the lack of solo content).  I left to try out WoW which I played for 6 months and then came back to EQ2.  I'm having a blast with so many things to do.  EQ2 beats out WoW hands down in terms of complexity, content, and the constant infusion of new content.  I really don't see EQ2 becoming "WoWified."  Two very different games.</p><p>Perhaps they are making things a bit easier.  I merely see it as a positive change of making things less tedious.  Take crafting as an example:   I didn't mind crafting the way it was.  Even though it was really tedious, it was relaxing in a way for me.  After CU19, I rolled up a new character and made her a scholar going sage.  I must say that once I tried the "new" system of making spells, I absolutely loved it.  I had the "pleasure" of leveling up a sage on another server to 40 and I must say that was hard work.  And the sage is one of the easier classes to level.   I really admire the crafters who got to 60 under the "old" system (especially armorers, hehe).  That takes some patience.  But you do have to admit, it is tedious.  Personally, I can't wait until the rest of the tradeskill changes go live.  This way, I can get all of my characters outfitted with gear, spells, etc quickly, leaving me more time of adventuring and less time at the crafting tables.   It was such a blast when I could got to the crafting table, and make all of my needed spells in one shot.  Great change in my opinion but I know that others don't feel this way and would rather have the "old" system.</p><p>Personally, I like EQ2 and the changes that they've made.  I have characters in all level ranges as well and have fun with every single one of them.</p>

[Xelrek]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Sunlei wrote:<div></div><p> I do agree with you about some things becoming "easier" especially for the new starting players. Many, many are entering eq2 from other even easier games. I think it's a very good plan for those new players to quickly develop low level characters they become attached to so the eq2 game will retain players for many years to come(I hope they learn character love)</p><p>However I disagree with you about "Teleporter within Sol Eye" making that zone easier.</p><p>Easier then it is right now today, yes. But it it not nor ever will be as "easy" as the game was the first 6-7 months.</p><p>Remember the first 6-7 months of the game NOTHING saw invis. nothing,, many monsters were not even aggro. Plenty of people got to 50 having no aggro and a guarranteed 100% invis. Many people got to 50 being almost immune to damage too.</p><p>These things have been changed lu 13 and up, making the game harder, not easier. How can you say adding see-invis. mobs made the game easier when for the first 7 months nothing saw invis?</p><hr></blockquote>As far as I remember, scout type mobs could see invis/sneak at launch until Sony broke something later on and it was left bugged with mobs losing their see invis if they had been aggro'd after spawning. It took them months and months before it was fixed (and then all the screaming started about how the game was suddenly made harder).They do seem to have over-done it a bit in SE though. Wasn't really that bad till you get past the giants (mostly just Golem Sentry's are the problem) but then everything really does see invis.</span></div><p>Message Edited by saXXon on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:14 PM</span></p>

[Ultharion]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>umm proudfoot, your right we both pay 15 a month.. so if you want to pay it and suck, thats fine by me, i play to be better than most.  And by a reflection of my completed quests, the things ive solo'd, my gear, my status... i am.  Its what im after.  I think i have thousands that will back me when i say that "casuals" by most peples definition should [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if they think they should have all the same luxeries as a person who plays 14 hours a day.  And dont give me the get a life arguement.  I work 45 hours a week, im an amateur bodybuilder and i have housework to do after that.   I get a few hours a day and a little bit more on teh weekends.   See me crying cause the guy who is still in school and lives in moms basement has more? nope he should.. .he sacrifices the things i dont.  Same as real life... one person could spend there life partying,  another going to school but missing out on all the cool parties ect.   The partyer shouldnt be bitter towarfds the guy who worked his rear off.    Get a clue... theyre making this game too casual friendly.  Let me guess, your either A) one of those from WoW B) one of those who this is there first MMO or C) just one of thsoe folks who doesnt want to sacrifice and invest whats needed to obtain XX item, and would rather have it made easier or doable quicker. <hr></blockquote>The casual player represents the vast majority of the player base.  You are not a casual player.   You may think you are, but then again just about every drunk out there thinks that it's the other drunks who are the alcoholics.  You represent an aberration.  As such, it is no surprise that the development of the game is not angled to suit your tastes.  With limited resources, and limited time, no one can make a game that pleases everyone, all of the time.  If you want a game angled at the lunatic fringe, well, look back to the days of EQ1 in its heyday.  You're not going to see it again.  Even Vanguard is going to disappoint the timesink=challenge crowd.  Accept it, and adapt, or keep spewing gibberish diatribes laden with words like "dumbed down" and "I'm an amateur bodybuilder".  Mind you, it won't change things, but at least the rest of us can get some entertainment out of your vitriole in the process.</span></div><p>Message Edited by Ultharion on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:52 PM</span></p>

[Cuz]

<div></div><p>OP an English course seems like it would be a challenge for you.</p><p>MMOs are inherently easy. You want a tough game? Try Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution. VF5 is being tested in Japan right now. </p>

[infernus006]

I for one totally support the changes they are making to the crafting system.  As it is now I cannot stand to spend hours and hours harvesting the megatons of raws and making bajillions of subcombines I need in order to get one pristine item out of a green recipe.  There is nothing fun about that at all, it's just a huge waste of my time.  And it's really sad because I would like to be able to make some of my own stuff without having to pay other people lots of money to do it for me all the time.  Really, think about it, how many game days does it take to make a pristine item from scratch?  Is that realistic?<div></div>

[Rijacki]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>infernus006 wrote:I for one totally support the changes they are making to the crafting system.  As it is now <font color="#ffff00">I cannot stand to spend hours and hours harvesting the megatons of raws</font> and making bajillions of subcombines I need in order to get one pristine item out of a green recipe.  There is nothing fun about that at all, it's just a huge waste of my time.  And it's really sad because I would like to be able to make some of my own stuff without having to pay other people lots of money to do it for me all the time.  Really, think about it, how many game days does it take to make a pristine item from scratch?  Is that realistic?<div></div><hr></blockquote>The use of raw in recipes is increasing expotentially.  Take a look in some of the tradeskill forums for some of the KoS data that has been released now the NDA is lifted.  The number of raws for each combine for T7 is considerably more than the number of raw you would use in all the subcombines to make -any- final product in the current system.The tedium of making endless subs is going to be replaces with the tedium of harvesting.  Worse, you will -need- to be a high level adventurer in order to harvest anything in T7 since all the harvest nodes are directly under the feet of agro mobs including nameds.</span></div>

[bluefish]

<div></div><p>I agree with klepp .. this game is getting too easy ..</p>

[Dail]

<div></div><blockquote><b><span>Worse, you will -need- to be a high level adventurer in order to harvest anything in T7 since all the harvest nodes are directly under the feet of agro mobs including nameds.</span></b></blockquote>I don't really see any difference to previous tiers. Nodes can be anywhere and many always have been near agro mobs.A level 60 crafter / 10 adventurer would have a hard time harvesting in thundering steppes, so why not in the T7 zones ?This always has been a problem unless people were greying out zones with high level chars (was an exploit in my eyesanyway).I have nothing against harvesters or crafters - far from it - but I don't see a difference here in the requirement for a highadventurer level compared to earlier versions of the game.Anyway, everybody is free to buy their resources from the broker as usual or to ask customers to provide them,as I did many times when contacting a sage myself for some spells.<b><span></span></b><b><span></span></b><p>Message Edited by Dailao on <span class="date_text">02-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:47 AM</span></p>

[Rijacki]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Dailao wrote:<div></div><blockquote><b><span>Worse, you will -need- to be a high level adventurer in order to harvest anything in T7 since all the harvest nodes are directly under the feet of agro mobs including nameds.</span></b></blockquote>I don't really see any difference to previous tiers. Nodes can be anywhere and many always have been near agro mobs.A level 60 crafter / 10 adventurer would have a hard time harvesting in thundering steppes, so why not in the T7 zones ?This always has been a problem unless people were greying out zones with high level chars (was an exploit in my eyesanyway).I have nothing against harvesters or crafters - far from it - but I don't see a difference here in the requirement for a highadventurer level compared to earlier versions of the game.Anyway, everybody is free to buy their resources from the broker as usual or to ask customers to provide them,as I did many times when contacting a sage myself for some spells.<b><span></span></b><hr></blockquote>There are -lots- of safe places to harvest in every teir (except for T7 from the reports).  Sometimes you have to go a bit far in to find them, but even the paths to them are relatively risk free, unless you're an idiot and intentionally walk into agro mobs or don't look where you're going.I have found 100% safe places to harvest in Steppes, EL, Zek, Nek Forest, Feerrott (lots of places there), Everfrost, Sinking Sands, etc.  My tradeskill level has been higher than my adventure level from the early 20s on.  Currently my tradeskill level is 60 which I reached when I was a 26 wizard. I have known -several- high level crafters with low adventure levels who do all or most of their own harvesting in all tiers with everything in the zones bloody red.  In all current zones, it is unusual to have -all- harvest nodes under the feet of agro mobs and it is exceedingly rare to have nodes under the feet of Nameds.  In all current tiers, there are -reachable- harvest nodes which do not -require- wiping out an area of all the mobs in order to be able to harvest at all.Mobs requiring combat related quests in order for them to become "friendly" still exclude low adventure level, high tradeskill level players. </span></div>

[Stern]

<div></div><p>I'm afraid to say it, but yes it does end, probably with damage control and a completely unwanted global and total change like Star Wars did... then half the population leaves. As this EQ2 is also SOE, I see the same thing happening... so, yes it probably does end eventually.</p><p> </p>

[Sritt]

<div></div><p>KoS is meant to be challenging. I suspect part of the reason for so many aggro's (and most of them in the entry zone are solo aggro at least on the first island where you can find all the harvest nodes available) is that they wanted to slow down levelling for the 60-70. From some of the posts I've seen by devs it sounds like the level cap won't be raised again anytime soon so they're doing what they can to make the new 'endgame' content last as long as possible.</p><p>My highest crafter on live is 18 so I've not seen the t7 crafting recipes but I know that the number of raws used in the redone lower end recipes is pretty much equal (maybe a bit more roots overall but the main raws that weren't part of WORTs is the same for a new one-step recipe as it was for a set of combines in the old system). I doubt t7 really requires that many more raws, its just we didn't have existing recipes with subcombines to guage the raw usage off of. Also it takes less time usually to harvest the raws needed for a recipe than it does to do all the subcombines so the tediousness has gone down. Also most crafters I know of that were high level asked the customer to provide rares, maybe other raws, or bought from the broker rather than harvest themselves and I doubt that will change and instead just give them more time to make finals to sell or maybe adventure as well.</p><p>Dont' forget the recent aggro change was a step up in difficulty, not down. Funny thing is I've seen a bunch of people who whine about the game being made to easy complaining that the aggro changes make it harder for them to help out alts/lowbie guildies, just can't win when someone just wants to have some drama.</p>

[Twizzel]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:<div></div><p> Dont' forget the recent aggro change was a step up in difficulty, not down. Funny thing is I've seen a bunch of people who whine about the game being made to easy complaining that the aggro changes make it harder for them to help out alts/lowbie guildies, just can't win when someone just wants to have some drama.</p><hr></blockquote>I haven't really ever commented on easy or hard, but I do think there is a vast difference between increased difficulty and something being basically just annoying.  I find it ridiculously annoying when mobs 10 levels below me aggro me...as if I would ever attack a mob 10 levels above me?

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:<div></div><p>KoS is meant to be challenging. I suspect part of the reason for so many aggro's (and most of them in the entry zone are solo aggro at least on the first island where you can find all the harvest nodes available) is that they wanted to slow down levelling for the 60-70. From some of the posts I've seen by devs it sounds like the level cap won't be raised again anytime soon so they're doing what they can to make the new 'endgame' content last as long as possible.</p><p>My highest crafter on live is 18 so <font color="#ffff00">I've not seen the t7 crafting recipes</font> but I know that the number of raws used in the redone lower end recipes is pretty much equal (maybe a bit more roots overall but the main raws that weren't part of WORTs is the same for a new one-step recipe as it was for a set of combines in the old system).<font color="#ffff00"> I doubt t7 really requires that many more raws,</font> its just we didn't have existing recipes with subcombines to guage the raw usage off of. Also it takes less time usually to harvest the raws needed for a recipe than it does to do all the subcombines so the tediousness has gone down. Also most crafters I know of that were high level asked the customer to provide rares, maybe other raws, or bought from the broker rather than harvest themselves and I doubt that will change and instead just give them more time to make finals to sell or maybe adventure as well.</p><p>Dont' forget the recent aggro change was a step up in difficulty, not down. Funny thing is I've seen a bunch of people who whine about the game being made to easy complaining that the aggro changes make it harder for them to help out alts/lowbie guildies, just can't win when someone just wants to have some drama.</p><hr></blockquote>Go check out the tradeskill boards. :smileyhappy:

[Zis]

<div>Tradeskilling - maybe they should just fix it so that once you've 'pristined' something you have an option to make it again with no subcombines - so that people asking you to make t4 gray stuff doesn't require you harvesting/acquiring tons of every single material and then doing 9-10 subcombines at different crafting stations to make 1 gray item.  If it is 'trivial' then it should be just that - triviail, not a pain in the butt.    You could even present this option if it still cons to you, just say 'no subcombines means you wont get xp for it'  --- then people who just want to make it and get done with it can do so, and lvl 60 tradeskillers dont have to spend 20 minutes to make 1 t3 item. </div><div>Re : Sols Eye, Travelling, Etc.   In all honesty - the first time you run up to Sols eye maybe you're level 40-something, death and lava and fire all around, your team huddling together on the little walkways over molten lava.  Yeah, its cool, its a challenge.  Then when you're in your mid-50s its just silly, stuff isn't worth killing for xp, its just in the way creating lag.  Now - things will aggro your lower level party members, yay!  So now you have to kill all the grays for np XP.  At what point does it stop being challenging and start just being annoying?  There's no challenge in running a group of 6 people through green/gray mobs - other than making sure you don't lag off the walkways.  It is, like has been said, a time sink.  I think there should be *more* portals to places, no one wants to spend 20 minutes getting somewhere they've already been.    Bad enough that with the server merges and population it can take you a very long time each time you have to zone, why not add quests that reward you with unlocking a portal to someplace, like a device you can put in your house? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  So no more zoning from town--->city--->harbor--->nek/el--->zone---->running across zone to wherever you're going--->instance---->etc.    If you don't have the fastest pc/connection, prepare to spend 15 minutes to get from your house to say, permafrost.   And this is assuming that you're not going to have to fight anything on the way there.</div><div> </div><div>Personally, I think the challenge should be in what you do while you are there, not in 'getting there.'  No one likes to wait 30 mins because the poor mage that was coming to join your xp group got killed by something that saw stealth and has to run alll the way back across from who-knows-where.  Nor do we all want to go back to the beginning of zone and escort them killing everything on the way.  We want to do what we came out here to do ne?   What do we have?  Call of Overlord/Qeynos -once per hour.  Call of Ro -once per hour.   Splitpaw recall if you want to go to TS, Shimmering Citadel Mirrors if you want to go to north PoF from elsewhere in the desert, and rugs that port you to the caretaker in SC from your apartment if you've done the quests for them.  So basically, until you're 50+, you have Call of Overlord/Qeynos and splitpaw recall if you bought the expansion AND have completed more quests many of which cannot be done solo.  Thats not a lot of ways to get around - they don't want to add portal spells, fine - but there really is no need to make getting places more difficult its just a waste of everyones time. </div><div> </div><div>On a final note - the casual vs. serious mmo player argument is one in every game -if you're a serious player why do you care if a casual player has something 'almost as good' ?  Why do you care about them at all?  Go do your raids.   Why do people feel that crafted items need to be considerably weaker than raid loot?  If you want to earn the money the long and tedious way to get something crafted as opposed to spending days in 24-man teams staring at the same raid mobs --- what difference does it make?     And, if you're a casual player, do you honestly expect to be decked out in all fabled gear and have better stats than someone who plays 12 hours a day and raids, tradeskills, etc?   Why do you want to be?  What do you need to be 'uber' for?  The argument is moot, there's no winning it, because there's no right and wrong in it --- its all a matter of opinion and what each individual wants for themselves and their character in the game.  The grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side no matter which side you're on.</div>

[Moonie_CT]

<div>I'm not sure if the original poster has even tried the newer system but it is not "easier". Now instead of spending alot of time doing precombines you now get to spend alot more time out foraging. A drink that previously took 3 raws to make and 6 fuels will now take roughly 12 raws and 15 fuels to make (provisioner 5h drinks/foods with stats). So thats now 120 raws needed instead of 60 (none of these raws will be store purchasble items like the old provisioner recipes.) per stack. It's really not an easier way of doing it, it's just a newer different way.</div>

[Kuko Shakaku]

<div></div><p>All the changes the devs have made not only lead to "timesink" but influence the gameplay as well.</p><p>For example: One year ago you were forced to act carefully when you were in a big group. When you wiped in the depth of Fallen Gate for example it was really a punishment because you had to spend a lot of time to get your soul back, you got a lot of exp-debt for everyone who died, etc..</p><p>So you had to concetrate on your job, you had to do it well, you had to look at what the others do, and so on. There was a special atmosphere deep inside those dungeons. A mighty mob could send you shivers down your spine.</p><p>All that has gone because it does not matter anymore if you wipe or not or whatever happens. All what seems to be important is if there drops a master or not. So please don´t say that all changes are only "time-sinks" because it is simply not true.</p><p>You say the devs are doing a good job. My opinion is that the game got less interesting and challenging with every update. It is still a good game, but it was awesome in Version 1.00.</p>

[JoarAddam]

<div></div>It will probably never end.  They give us customers who want a tough game a good tough game for a while, and then after we've had our fun, they set it to recruit mode for the people who were afraid to play before because it was too hard. 

[Crim001]

<div></div>Not everyone is a hardcore gamer mind you, it can become rather tedious if you gotta spend a few hours ingame in order to accomplish something if you are busy in RL.....IMO they are just trying to help out the casual gamers....

[Leafkiller]

I really have to agree with Kuko on this one. The changes are removing 'timesinks' that were not 'fun'. Timesinks like challenge and risk, and the fear that went with them are gone. More and more so is any level of accomplishment in this game. Pretty much the only difficult thing left are the high end raids, and even those are little more than loot runs now - just remember to bring along a second set of armor (a change of underwear, too, I guess), and the risk is meaningless.I remember doing the betrayal quest shortly after launch...getting through Nek forest was terrifying, even the water was full of orange and red critters with a huge aggro radius...and dying in the depths of Stormhold or Fallen Gate was a disaster! The tanks would do everything they could to buy the party's rezzer a few seconds to get clear so that the 'party' had some hope.Now...who cares? No shards, no shared debt, minimal experience debt and a bit of armor damage. Mob probably too tough? Meh...its a free teleport back to safety.And I don't expect it will change for the better any time soon. I expect we will see increasingly 'uber' raid content and increasingly trivial gameplay, rather than any sort of a balanced game.Toxx<div></div>

[Ultharion]

Hey klepp, funny thing.. it looks like you got what you had wished for. The game did become much more challenging for rangers, which seems to be your chosen profession, with the proc adjustments.. But, a funny thing.. one can take note of your posting history, and *gasp* you clearly be seen complaining virulently about it in several threads. Irony is truly a beautiful thing, it is. Good job, man!

[mazzy]

<div></div><p>i dont recall when buy  eq1 or eq2 that it states "for those who dont have alot of time to play, /feedback so we can nerf the game to cater to the  time sinks"</p><p>you bought the game, you chose to play regardless of how much time you have to spend in the game..</p><p>getting from point a to point z  no matter if i play 2 hours a night, or 3 days straight  is part of the gaming process  and still sucks regardless of how much time one has to play, so yes nerfing they did- for the many people who dont want to waste there so called time getting from point a to point z.</p><p>but then again soe gives and takes away, then gives back, then takes somthing else away, its how they work.</p><p>is the game simplified since launch, YES, does it get more simplified each lu update, yes to that as well.</p><p>people who play on line games ( as well as me) are creating our own time sink, we waste our time in a world that doesnt exist, just so we can complain, choosing to logg in is a time sink, time you spend away from family, friends, jobs, , reality in general, just so u can complain about time sinks in a world that doesnt exist expcet for when you hit that "play" button</p><p>and better yet, think of the time sink you are doing now replying to this thread whether to agree or bash, now if you werent on the boards, that 5 min you spent here would have given you 5 more minutes in the actual game to get from point a to point z</p>

[Iagan the Swart]

<span><blockquote><hr>Twizzel wrote:<div></div>I haven't really ever commented on easy or hard, but I do think there is a vast difference between increased difficulty and something being basically just annoying.  I find it ridiculously annoying when mobs 10 levels below me aggro me...as if I would ever attack a mob 10 levels above me?<hr></blockquote></span>Guild Wars in notorious for this since levels don't mean as much in that game.  Being attacked by the same low level MOBs is one of the annoyances that caused me to stop playing that game.  I approve of the changes SOE is making.  I think most of them are well thought out, and will make the game more fun.Another thing I want to point out is that the upcoming changes follow the same pattern that all other changes have in the past.  SOE announces that they are making a big change.  People complain and rant about how the changes suck.  The changes hit Test, and people rant and complain.  The changes hit Live, and people rant and complain, and threaten to leave.  Then people actually play with the changes and usually end up liking them.To the OP, why are you opining on something you haven't played yet.  Make a run through SE.  See if it is really easier?  If it is, then come back and tell us about it.  Right now your rant only serves to entertain, because you yourself admit that you don't know what you are talking about.  Start a character on Test if you haven't already done so.  Offer feedback here, and who knows, SOE might just listen.<div></div>

[Adar]

<div>I am A) player from WoW.</div><div> </div><div>However - I played EQ way, way back in the day. I came back to MMORPG for friends in WoW, got completely burned out on how simple it was, and mainly came to EQII for tradeskills and a new world.</div><div> </div><div>I haven't even been here long and I already see the dumbing down and hate it. I realize the fact that WoW has a billion more subscribers and it all boils down to $$$, but it sucks for people like me who just want to play a game that has a little more depth than the others.</div><div> </div><div>Sadly, I doubt it will ever change unless Sony realizes that the number of stupid 12-year-old subscribers doesn't have anything to do with the skill of the company or value of the game.</div><div> </div><div>Anyway - this is my vote for dumbing it down sucks.</div><div>Ad</div>

[lillin]

<div></div><div></div><div>Time sinks do not equal challenge.</div><div> </div><div>Lessining time sinks does not equal dumbing down.</div><div> </div><div>Some of these things been around since eq1 even in Verants Godly areas of the game. </div><div> </div><div>EQ2</div><div>Porting halfway cross Sol Eye.</div><div> </div><div>EQ1</div><div>Going to Cobalt Scar (Druid Port), go inside and succor to other side of zone, welcome to easy way to Western Waste where you see way more dragons then just Nagafin.  Much easier juant too.</div><div> </div><div>Look at crafting in eq1, you open a tradeskill device, put a few items in and hit combine. Poof item ........</div><div> </div><div>There are things in eq1 that bring a funner aspect to the game but there are fun aspects here.  Quit looking for bad things in eq2 and comparing it to good things in eq1.  If ya wanna play that game i can list many more bad things about eq1 to throw back at ya.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by lillin on <span class="date_text">02-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:13 AM</span></p>

[MrTransistor2006]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div><div>This game is basically click n zoom around.  Now even in dungeons?  High end dungeons??   Am i the only one who feels this way??</div><p>Message Edited by klepp on <span class="date_text">02-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:05 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Maybe if you got off your 48% carpet, had the $ of a real newbie so those 60silver tickets were a fortune, and many other things that non-twinks don't have, you wouldn't feel that way.</span></div>

[klepp]

<div></div><p>lol Jenoy.. Hows FU sound?    Timesink does = challenge.  Mind numbing, sure.. monotoneous(sp)  sure..  but the people that put in the time, and suffer the grind should have bettter items than those who cry.. oh this takes to long.. oh this is too hard.....  cmon now..  </p><p>and isnt grinding xp just the same? a timesink?</p><p>vangaurd ftw!</p>

[klepp]

<div></div>jarlaxle,   yea.. unfortunately thats basically how it is, how it always has been.   Until MMO developers find a way to actually differentiate players that play well and are skilled vs the less apt... timesink = challenge.   And no one kid yourself.. there will always be timesinks.. if there werent, they wouldnt have subscriptions very long, nor would many people hold interest if they could just log in for an hour and get 5 levels ect..

[klepp]

<div></div>as for the tradeskill changes.. yea harvesting all these raws, and doing all these subcombines is a "waste of time" but isnt this entire game?  Ok so now we have less combines, raw straight to final product....   SO much for differentiation in the tradeskillers as well... and welcome to market flooding and the incoming price drop on items...

[klepp]

<div></div><p>hey mr transistor.... i didnt have my 48% horse at one time.. i had to get there....... so.. for the noobies, you can too /cheeer! </p><p>and for the folks who stated i may have not tried the new crafting system... no i didnt even hear specifics on it until now.. so if in fact it takes more fuel, more raw's then i guess it would balance out "somewhat"  so i retract my issue with that until i see it in game. </p><p> </p>

[klepp]

<div></div>and ultharion, ive said it once, and will say it again.. daaaaaa-mn right im upset about the changes to the ranger class..    I mean, even if your not a ranger.. stay unbiased for a second... (for starters [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] does rangers being nerf'd have to do w/ challenge lol)  but, the ranger class, assassins as well... get to pay hard earned $$$  ... not just a little bit of $$$ either... to basically try and keep up with other classes that do their dmg for free.......   i mean.. cmon..

[Flor]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div><p>lol Jenoy.. Hows FU sound?    Timesink does = challenge.  Mind numbing, sure.. monotoneous(sp)  sure..  but the people that put in the time, and suffer the grind should have bettter items than those who cry.. oh this takes to long.. oh this is too hard.....  cmon now..  </p><p>and isnt grinding xp just the same? a timesink?</p><p>vangaurd ftw!</p><hr></blockquote><p>Klepp, first want to say that I agree the ranger changes kinda suck.  I have a baby ranger and I was really looking forward to playing her at some future point.  I would delete her however she is a level 30 weaponsmith so I do have a little time invested in her.  Guess she will never really adventure after what I'm reading about rangers. </p><p>But getting to your statement about "suffering the grind," that is an interesting statement and I've heard it from many EQ1 players in particular.  Other words like mind numbing and monotoneus (I can't spell that either) also jumped out at me.  My question/comment is really about why people play a game where they have to suffer anything?  I hope that when people are "suffering the grind" they are still having fun in some way.  A game like WoW  was very fun getting there to end level.  But in many other threads I've read, people seem to equate "suffering" as what a game should be.   Why suffer at all?  Why shouldn't a game be fun?  I know that people like getting to end game to raid or whatever.  But when many people get to end game, they also "suffer" because there isn't much to do. </p><p>One of the worst games that I ever played was Horizons where there was a horrific lack of quests.  To get to level 20-30, 30-40. 40-50, etc  for example, there were only a few repeatable quests that you had to do, over and over again.  You knew that to level, you would be hunting in one spot for 10 levels because those were the only quests you could get.  I stayed only because of the crafting system and the magnificent plot that I was building ( a highlight of the game for me).  But in Horizons, I truely had that "suffering" feeling and that is what led me to finally cancel my account.  It was a terrible grind from the standpoint of no content.</p><p>But what jumped out at me was a common theme of "suffering" or "grinding" and mostly I see this from the EQ1 vets.  I'm not trying to flame anyone so please don't take it that way.  I'm just a bit puzzled about why people need to go through hell levels to get a sense of fulfillment in a game.  Shouldn't it be all fun?</p><p>Caveat:  I do hope that EQ2 doesn't become quite as simplistic as WoW but I don't see that happening actually.  EQ2 has much more to offer in terms of content, quests, constant updates, an evolving world (my opinion). </p>

[TimidMou]

<div></div>Very soon the entire zone of Sol's Eye is going to be grey to you anyway... hmmm what a coincidence that this is the time the devs decided to put the teleporter in and not earlier. Yes, a coincidence.

[klepp]

<div></div>yes... some find the "grind' and "monotony" fun.. in some way.. or they wouldnt continue playing. obviously..   Some dont, and those are the people that whimper and whine for Free xp and reimbursements, double xp weekends, xp potions..  the list goes on.  When i play i derive my enjoyment from feeling like i "earned" whatever it is that im obtaining.  If its made too easy, or easier.. wehres the fun in that? what makes you so differnet for earning "this" if everyone has the same thing because its easy to earn? whether it be earned by skill or monotomy.. there has to be something to seperate accomplishments.... Everyone plays for their own reason.. i dont play for the new "high score" cause there isnt one.. so we have to gauge our accomplishments on something else.  

[klepp]

<div>and your right, i very well may never see Sol Eye again, but its a slap in the face to alot of folks that put blood sweat and tears into making it through that zone ect.  Thats a bad example but its like... when i quit the first time...   I had just gotten my final peice of ebon armor, i was probably the first ranger on the server in full ebon.. it was great.. i worked my rear off.. didnt harvest a single peice, had to buy every last one ( had real bad luck w/ harvesting )  The next day a patch came in saying, they were making rares more common.  Umm way to ruin individuality.. and make someone feel like the hard work they put in is now made much much easier for the next guy.   Sounds bad but its true.. you got guys who play 10 hours a day to become what we all love to call "uber" and get ahead and do big things with less people ect.... then SoE goes and makes some change that makes it 2x as easy for the people a teir lower to accomplish it.. its horrible.</div>

[Flor]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>yes... some find the "grind' and "monotony" fun.. in some way.. or they wouldnt continue playing. obviously..   Some dont, and those are the people that whimper and whine for Free xp and reimbursements, double xp weekends, xp potions..  the list goes on.  When i play i derive my enjoyment from feeling like i "earned" whatever it is that im obtaining.  If its made too easy, or easier.. wehres the fun in that? what makes you so differnet for earning "this" if everyone has the same thing because its easy to earn? whether it be earned by skill or monotomy.. there has to be something to seperate accomplishments.... Everyone plays for their own reason.. i dont play for the new "high score" cause there isnt one.. so we have to gauge our accomplishments on something else.  <hr></blockquote><p>Good, I'm glad that you are having fun in game.  I get confused sometimes when people refer to hell levels or suffering in a game.  It's like people are grimly playing the game and lose some of the fun in the process.  As I mentioned before, this seems to be a common theme with some EQ1 players and I was curious.  If I fell like I'm grimly grinding in a game, that is when I move on.  Since I resubscribed to EQ2 last July, the game has seemed just right to me.  There was certainly the CU#13 to get used to but it wasn't so bad.  I really like this game and hope SOE continues to do fine things.</p><p>You are right about wanting to feel like you earned something.  If a game is too easy, it simply becomes no challenge to blast to end level.  Then everyone is walking around at max level.  I think that EQ2 has things about right but obviously many don't share that opinion.  It's a tough balance and a fine line these companies walk.  I will be curious about Vanguard and how that caters to the player base.  I personally think that the hardcore player base is getting their hopes up a bit.  I think that companies will always keep the casual player base in mind and games won't be hardcore like you saw in the past (early days of EQ1 for example).  We shall see.</p>

[Suta]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>there will always be timesinks.. if there werent, they wouldnt have subscriptions very long, nor would many people hold interest if they could just log in for an hour and get 5 levels ect..<hr></blockquote><p>Not true. I'd play alts. But the thought of the Timesinks put me off "going through all that" again with other chars.</p><p>So what do I do? Just cancel my subscription for a couple months until I feel like playing EQ2 again.</p><p>So without timesinks, they'd get more money out of people like me.</p>

[Alteri_1]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>umm proudfoot, your right we both pay 15 a month.. so if you want to pay it and suck, thats fine by me, i play to be better than most.  And by a reflection of my completed quests, the things ive solo'd, my gear, my status... i am.  Its what im after.  I think i have thousands that will back me when i say that "casuals" by most peples definition should [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if they think they should have all the same luxeries as a person who plays 14 hours a day.  And dont give me the get a life arguement.  I work 45 hours a week, im an amateur bodybuilder and i have housework to do after that.   I get a few hours a day and a little bit more on teh weekends.   See me crying cause the guy who is still in school and lives in moms basement has more? nope he should.. .he sacrifices the things i dont.  Same as real life... one person could spend there life partying,  another going to school but missing out on all the cool parties ect.   The partyer shouldnt be bitter towarfds the guy who worked his rear off.    <strong><font color="#ff0000">Get a clue... theyre making this game too casual friendly.</font></strong>  Let me guess, your either A) one of those from WoW B) one of those who this is there first MMO or C) just one of thsoe folks who doesnt want to sacrifice and invest whats needed to obtain XX item, and would rather have it made easier or doable quicker. <hr></blockquote><p>At this point, I chime in.  As I've posted once in the past, (and I wish the link to Smeds original post was still available) *ahem* This game was originally designed for casual, small group play.  Two, three hours at a time, a few times a week, solo, duo, three man.  Hey, heroic encounters still say "...for three or more".  (Which by the way, makes me "D" someone that's been around EQII long enough to know that as a fact)  By your own statements, you are already all you can be.  Why not content yourself with that?  Does it offend you that others might not have to walk up hill both ways in twenty feet of snow, with out shoes to get ahead?  :smileyindifferent:</p><p>One question, and forgive me if it already came up.  You're willing to go to Vanguard, and leave the game altogether, but not switch servers and leave your guild?</p>

[Poetelia]

<div></div><p>Again the same issue. Its no use arguing the point when the concept is wrong. We are not actually arguing easy-v-difficult here. The OP has admitted in several of his post sthat HE THINKS there is not really such a thing... only way to show your fervor, your worth, your value, is time spent at the computer period. Of course thats as subjective a point as any and not of more worth as any other.</p><p>The real problem behind the post is another. I have commented on this on other threads. There are 2 kinds of players basically in this game, the real PvE people and the undercover PvP that uses environment as a way to keep score.</p><p>It has nothing to do with casual or not, hardcore or not, timesink or not. There are casual PvE and hardcore PvE, and also casual undercover PvP.</p><p>The real PvE (player versus environment) player centers everything in the fun and the desire to beat the game that someone designed for her. She wants to get quests done, visit all the places and is not in a hurry. She also cant care less about what equipment, titles, rewards, the guy next has or hasnt. After camping BT for 14 hours back in the day, she doesnt give a copper if now BT is always up and the DWB are now more easy. She only thinks every day about the fun she got and the piece of game she unraveled, with his friends. And, being so, she can recognize the utter stupidity of spending 14 hours waiting for a bird or trying to spawn the Creator or hunting Rma'nai. She doesnt need to feel superior to anyone but to the game itself.</p><p>The undercover PvP player doesnt measure himself against the environment... he is competing with his fellow players. If I have this piece of equipment it shows that Im better than you, that I have won, that you suck... He is using the environment to keep tally, not as an end to beat in itself. Of course, everytime that another pair of DWB (just to follow the example) hits the game, it represents a step back in his victory of sorts... now those slackers have the equipment I do. They play to be better than you, so, of course, the game must not be fun, must be hard. Obviously the definition of hard varies with the capabilities of every one of them. If they have a ton of free time, hard for them is defined about timesinks. If they dont have that much time, hard comes from joining a big raiding guild and raiding a couple times a week for 4 hours each to get that fabled.</p><p>I play a lot of time. I am an old EQ1 player and have been almost at every place there was to be, for more hours than I care to accept and remember. Ancient Cyclops anyone? Windfeather? Name it... I was there. So if its about time spent at the keyboard in the last 6 years, I can be second to some peeps, but not for a lot.</p><p>But what I look at the end of the day is... FUN. And, frankly, I cant care less what you earned, have or not have. Did you have the same fun I did? Good for you.</p><p>BTW, an easier time at Sol Eye now?   Yeah, riiight.</p><p>And yeah, Vanguard... Vanguard is the answer... at least until Vanguard comes out. Maybe Vanguard has the potential to be a nice game and well thought out, it is still full of promise. But taking into the account the sheer quantity of wannabe elite egos its going to attract, I dont think I wanna be close. Its going to sound like a fight of a thousand roosts.</p><p> </p><p>Poetelia Roseknight</p><p>Paladin of Qeynos</p>

[cheerupbrian]

Get rid of grouping and make everything execpt raids soloable.<div></div>

[Magiocracy]

Gaming in general has evolved lots over the last five years, moving from a niche hobby to the mainstream entertainment market, and one of the consequences of this is that there are now far far more 'casual' players now than ever before.The bottom line here is very simple, as WoW has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt the real money to be made in the MMORPG business is by catering to 'casual' players. As a business therefore SOE would simply be mad not to ensure that their game appeals to the widest section of potential players possible.The unpalatable fact for many 'hardcore' players is that back in the days of EQ1/UO they were the life and soul of the MMORPG industry but the bald truth is that they no longer are, and quite frankly the sooner they get over themselves and their 'better than you' attitude the better for everyone.<div></div>

[CacheR]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Magiocracy wrote:Gaming in general has evolved lots over the last five years, moving from a niche hobby to the mainstream entertainment market, and one of the consequences of this is that there are now far far more 'casual' players now than ever before.The bottom line here is very simple, as WoW has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt the real money to be made in the MMORPG business is by catering to 'casual' players. As a business therefore SOE would simply be mad not to ensure that their game appeals to the widest section of potential players possible.<hr></blockquote><p>I am not sure how you would define 'casual player'. Time spent in-game per week? To Raid, or Not to Raid? kind of slippery definition, IMO.</p><p>Notwithstanding the definition, i will say this -- since the MOBs have gotten tougher:smileysurprised:, and the classes have gotten 'balanced':smileywink: and the tradeskill process has been 'improved':smileywink: and the servers have been merged:smileymad: this game has lost a lot of appeal for me.</p><p>Two days in a row, I logged in at about 9pm CST (GMT -6) to the Blackburrow server, and ran all the way from Nettleville Hovel in Qeynos, through Antonica, across Thundering Steppes, and into Ruins of Varsoon with /LFG tag on, and telling /ooc or /1 (Qeynos) channel that I was a level 38 Templar heading to RoV, willing to kill anything in there with anyone, willing to mentor if needed, and _still_ stood in the first half of that dungeon killing [cencored] green-con MOBs until about 1:00 am, when i wiped on a level 28 heroic encounter (not named, mind you), found the straw that broke the camel's back, and flippin logged out.:smileysad:</p><p>I thought the server moves:smileymad: were supposed to make it easier to find groups?</p><p>OK - Templar can't heal like i could, my Ranger does not have uber-anything, my Conjurer's pet is broken, my Pally and Guardian are made of tissue paper, and tradeskilling - which i used to enjoy - is now an exercise in frustration (ya wanna tick off mechanics? alter the laws of physics, until internal combustion engines run on Smucker's Grape Jelly, and watch the wrenches fly).</p><p>I used to spend every moment I had available playing - now, it's just a pain in my sacrum.</p><p>Am I a casual player? Dunno. Am I pleased with the way this game is heading? I'll give you one guess ........</p>

[Magiocracy]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>CacheRAM wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Magiocracy wrote:Gaming in general has evolved lots over the last five years, moving from a niche hobby to the mainstream entertainment market, and one of the consequences of this is that there are now far far more 'casual' players now than ever before.The bottom line here is very simple, as WoW has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt the real money to be made in the MMORPG business is by catering to 'casual' players. As a business therefore SOE would simply be mad not to ensure that their game appeals to the widest section of potential players possible.<hr></blockquote><p>I am not sure how you would define 'casual player'. Time spent in-game per week? To Raid, or Not to Raid? kind of slippery definition, IMO.</p><p>Notwithstanding the definition, i will say this -- since the MOBs have gotten tougher:smileysurprised:, and the classes have gotten 'balanced':smileywink: and the tradeskill process has been 'improved':smileywink: and the servers have been merged:smileymad: this game has lost a lot of appeal for me.</p><p>Two days in a row, I logged in at about 9pm CST (GMT -6) to the Blackburrow server, and ran all the way from Nettleville Hovel in Qeynos, through Antonica, across Thundering Steppes, and into Ruins of Varsoon with /LFG tag on, and telling /ooc or /1 (Qeynos) channel that I was a level 38 Templar heading to RoV, willing to kill anything in there with anyone, willing to mentor if needed, and _still_ stood in the first half of that dungeon killing [cencored] green-con MOBs until about 1:00 am, when i wiped on a level 28 heroic encounter (not named, mind you), found the straw that broke the camel's back, and flippin logged out.:smileysad:</p><p>I thought the server moves:smileymad: were supposed to make it easier to find groups?</p><p>OK - Templar can't heal like i could, my Ranger does not have uber-anything, my Conjurer's pet is broken, my Pally and Guardian are made of tissue paper, and tradeskilling - which i used to enjoy - is now an exercise in frustration (ya wanna tick off mechanics? alter the laws of physics, until internal combustion engines run on Smucker's Grape Jelly, and watch the wrenches fly).</p><p>I used to spend every moment I had available playing - now, it's just a pain in my sacrum.</p><p>Am I a casual player? Dunno. Am I pleased with the way this game is heading? I'll give you one guess ........</p><hr></blockquote><p>Much like Poetelia I'd say that the difference between a casual and a hardcore player is nothing to do with time played/raiding or whatever, it's to do with their attitude towards the game. Hardcore players feel that they are in a competition - first to level, first to get an item, and they measure their success in relation to other players. Casual players play the game for enjoyment as an end in itself and feel no great compulsion to compare themselves to other players.</p><p>With that out of the way, there is a difference between saying that SOE is trying to make the game more casual friendly and saying that they've succeeded. The problem here seems to me to be that, unlike WoW, where every class can solo pretty efficiently, the solo ability of the classes here varies drastically, therefore in the situations where the more solo-deficient classes (such as Templar) can't get a group, then they're in a far worse position than another class that can go off and do something else. This is an example of where SOE have failed to fully decide what kind of game they want - EQ2 seems stuck at the moment in some sort of limbo between wanting to be a group-based game with solo content, or a solo-friendly game with group content.  Again the contrast with WoW is that Blizzard got the fundamental concepts of their game right from the start, and as a result have only needed to tweak things as they go along, while SOE made any number of fundamentally flawed design decisions right at the beginning, and are still trying to fix them with one drastic change after another.</p><p>..and as for the server merges, it's difficult to say that they've been anything other than a complete mess. </p>

[ldavis]

<div></div><p>I have been seeing alot of counter arguments stating that the game is not getting easier, they are just removing "Timesinks".  But it seems to me that a "Timesink" is whatever the person that posts considers boring or unneeded. </p><p>More portals to get ya there?  It's not easier, its just removing the "Timesink" of travel.  No shards?  It does not change playstyle, it only removes the "Timesink" of having to get yer shard.  No sub-combines?  What do ya know, another pesky "Timesink". </p><p>I just thought I'd help identify some more "hidden Timesinks";</p><p>Getting from level 1 to 20; MAJOR timesink!</p><p>Getting from level;  well, you see where this going.  SOE Should give us a /level command like Dark age of Camelot has that allows us to bypass those boring early "needless" levels and go right for the gusto!</p><p>Mob fights;  Another timesink!  What about 1 hit 1 kill?  If I come up on a bear with a sledgehammer, he is going DOWN!  It's a waste of time to make fights last 30 seconds when 1 hit accomplishes the same thing!</p><p>Crafting;  FOUR levels to a pristine?  Are you TRYING to bore us to death?  Get rid of this timesink and let us just hit a "make" button and be done with it!</p><p>And making ONE item at a time?  Whats THAT about?  Our "make" button should make a STACK... of 100. AT LEAST.  and there should be an AUTO SELL button that sells the extra for the best price.  Do you know who much time it takes to take my extra items (NOT that I have that many only making ONE at a time) to my house vault, open my store, check prices on the broker, move them to the vault, list them for sale and then WAIT to see if anyone buys them?  MAN!  Is SOE trying to KILL US?  Git rid of that rediculus TIME SINK!</p><p>AND THEEM OTHER PLAYERS!!!  THEY TAKE ME MOBS AND THEY SHOULD GIVE ME STUFFS ANED MONEY TOO!!!! EVERYONE BOW TO ME!!!!! IMWEINGBNPWE*(~!!!!</p><p>AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!</p>

[Geekyone]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div><div>my god, if people really dont like things to be time consuming, or challenging, or have risk vs reward... might as well put in /godmode for the folks that want to be uber w/ no work involved or whatever the case may be.</div><div>I quit once and you guys are driving me to again, i know im only 1 person but i know im not th eonly one who feels this way.i could go down the list of things youve already changed to make the game easier but thats all done and gone and id be bringing up old arguements.  So for the sake of that i wont..</div><div> </div><div>However, now you want to take out subcombines?  [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for?  what purpose does that serve?  Ooooh yea making it easier for someone to level a tradeskiller, thus bringing more crafted stuff to the market and making it easier for high level botters ect.  Great way to get the economy rollin, kinda li ke ffxi's /sarcasm off</div><div>Then you want to take the hq crafted items and make them easier to make?  As if taking the required rare out wasnt enough?  Good god..</div><div> </div><div>and a Teleporter within Sol Eye?  Hell im not gonan even ask!  The one from lava to sol eye wasnt enough?  I thought you werent giving players teleport spells so there would be some challenge.. This game is basically click n zoom around.  Now even in dungeons?  High end dungeons??   Am i the only one who feels this way??</div><div> </div><div>there is no risk vs reward, there is no being rewarded for skill.  Hell ya got pickup raids romping through GoAA, so sad..</div><p>Message Edited by klepp on <span class="date_text">02-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:05 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Not that it matter to me, because I play on the pvp server now, and everything is much more difficult.   But I agree with this feller.

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>OperationsX wrote:<div></div>To answer the OP, nope it wont end till they have more subcribers than WOW, IE, it will never end.<hr></blockquote><p>you hit it right on the head.</p><p>EQ2 makes the game more *accsessable* until blizzard looses customers.....</p><p>....so blizzard will make WoW more *accessable* again....</p><p>....until both games are so *accsessable* that only  w*nkers care to play them.</p><p>which is no problem for both companies because the w*nkers have at least 51% of the player base :smileywink:</p><p> </p><p>but its not that much a biggie.....when the LU comes that makes it possible to mine a Pristine Ebon Sword right out of Frigid Ore (thats <em>not </em>satire but a prediction) some other MMORPGS will allready be waiting</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p><span class="time_text"><font color="#66ff00">PS: </font></span></p><p><span class="time_text"><font color="#66ff00">some words to timesinks. so *casual* players generally only want to spend time for the *action* not for mundane cr*p some of us allready have enough in the office or at home. bye that definition TRAVEL is ONLY a timesink. we have to drive to the office, pick up the children, make a trip to the mall....timesink,timesink, timesink.</font></span></p><p><span class="time_text"><font color="#66ff00">so WHY do we need to travel in EQ2 at all? why are we forced to waste our precious $$$$$-payed-time running, riding and flying through Norrath (not to mention the spires which have worse schedules than the local bus).</font></span></p><p><span class="time_text"><font color="#66ff00">why not having the ability to teleport to any playe we want?</font> </span></p><p><span class="time_text"><font color="#ff9900">/travel_to_loc</font></span></p><p><span class="time_text"><font color="#66ff00">anyone finds this to easy? wheres the difference between making subcombines, working off that boulder of a 1% XP debth and TRAVEL?</font></span></p><p><span class="time_text"><span class="time_text"><font color="#66ff00">and why does my quest book tell me EXACTELY which NPCs I have to find if I have to TRAVEL to them? thats just stealing my time, my hard earned free time I pay SOE BIG $ for!</font></span></span></p><p><span class="time_text"><span class="time_text"></span><font color="#66ff00">I say SCR*W travelling at all! teleport me from my home to the TS instance, to the zone, the dungeon,  the room,  the spot - right up the nose of the named!</font></span></p><p><span class="time_text"><font color="#66ff00"></font></span> </p><p><span class="time_text"><font color="#66ffff">.....and in case your about  quotin me with a "yeah dude, you rulez" -  this actually WAS satire :smileysad:</font></span></p><p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class="date_text">03-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:06 PM</span></p>

[Sritt]

<div>Heh funny satire, but some seem to actually think that way. I find it funny that I'm a casual player but see no problems with the travel time (and as I've pointed out the wait at the spire and travel to it are less than travel to places that have been in game since launch, and faster than travel in parts of Nek Forest and Thundering Steppes before the griffon towers there).</div><div> </div><div>As for the bus schedule the bus I take to get home from work comes by ONCE every half hour and only in a few hour range during weekdays, and I have to walk 3 blocks to get to the bus stop, will be even further once the bus tunnel re-opens next year! Oh and I have to pay for the bus too, its not free like the spires are (luckily I can expense the monthly bus pass). If I chose to live in another part of the city (as in an even more expensive part, or the ghetto murder capital areas) then I'd have better bus choices but I chose to live in a fairly decent neighborhood at a 'reasonable' rent. Same in EQ2, I chose to live in QH, and if you're running back to the writ givers all the time that's something you choose to do, not something you have to do. I rarely do writs, I get more status off the loot drops and HQs than I do off writs for the same time investment. Writs seem only useful to build faction.</div>

[ldavis]

I for one applaud the wait at the spires.  I know it will go the way of the boats, but while its there, enjoy it!  Talk in /ooc, talk to the other dudes waiting, downtime is not all bad.  The post before this got me to thinking;This would be cool;Spire ride is free IF you wanna wait, BUT, how about cutting off 10 seconds of wait time for every drop from the mushrooms you turn in?  That would finally give a reason for people to gather those nasty things, thus making the more wanted nodes to spawn, reduce the wait for people that need to get there right away, stimulate the economy as the newbies now gather the shrooms and sell them on the broker!Its a Win for the impatient, a win for the lowbies who can sell the stuff, a win for crafters who now have more usable nodes and a general boost to the economy.SOE:  If you use this idea please send 1pp to Salmon on Unrest<span>:smileyvery-happy:</span><div></div>

[Emirikol]

<div>I don't know why but this all seems kind of silly to me.</div><div> </div><div>Time consuming does not equal challenging.</div><div>Tedius does not equal challenging.</div><div> </div><div>Now, if specific encounters are challeging enough that you have to try them multiple times to be successful... that is challenging.  In fact the only real way to raise challenge in this type of game is to increase the chance of failure.</div><div> </div><div>As to the SE portal, how much challenge is there is seeing if I can stay awake to walk back down for the 30th time?  While I agree, I'm not for reducing the challenge of the game.  For instance, if they decided that making Varsoon a double ^^ instead was better...  I'd be against it.  Removing tedious items from the game...  why not? </div><div> </div><div>I keep hearing people talking about risk vs reward?  What risk is there in a MOORPG anyway?  Time is the only thing they can risk anyway.  Even if losing to that dragon would destroy permanently every item on your character and reduce all your spells to apprentice 1...   its still only time. </div><div> </div><div>That being said... time can be used in numerous ways...  I'd rather it was burned up having to get armor repairs, work off debt, upgrade equipment so I can be successful, etc... </div><div> </div><div>Would the game be more challenging if instead of having to work off debt, you had to stand there and do 1000 jumping jacks with your character before he could use another combat art?  I believe it would simply be more tedious.  In the same spirit, they have continously removed tedium from the game since launch.</div><div> </div><div>That being said I don't care for the crafting changes.  Not because I did it the hard way or simply because the t7 items are junk. The reason I don't like it is that it has caused a shift in harvesting vs crafting time.  Previously a it was about 1 hour of harvesting time to 4 hours of crafting time.  Now it is 4 hours of harvesting time to 1 hour of crafting time.  This caused inflation in the harvested item pricing.  (In addition to the uneven usage of harvested items...  pelts used to be too plentiful... now there isn't enough of them.)</div><div> </div><div>But seriously...  why do people think that simply wasting your time creates a challenge? </div>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<div></div><p>then why that tiny 1-2% XP debth a all? why that lame 2 minute "resurrection sickness"?</p><p>If being denied success and havin wated your time on that mob is allready  punishment (*LOL*) enough, than why that fig leaf at all? why arent players allowed to just go on?</p><p>in fact that lame death penalty merely exists so that SOE and the horde of wankers can say. "Nonononono....there still IS a death penalty"</p><p>thats the only purpose.....</p>

[Chefren]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<div></div><p>then why that tiny 1-2% XP debth a all? why that lame 2 minute "resurrection sickness"?</p><p>If being denied success and havin wated your time on that mob is allready  punishment (*LOL*) enough, than why that fig leaf at all? why arent players allowed to just go on?</p><p>in fact that lame death penalty merely exists so that SOE and the horde of wankers can say. "Nonononono....there still IS a death penalty"</p><p>thats the only purpose.....</p><hr></blockquote>I hope they introduce a new hardcore server with permadeath: you die, you reroll and all the stuff you had on is ffa loot.</span></div>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Chefren wrote:<div><span>I hope they introduce a new hardcore server with permadeath: you die, you reroll and all the stuff you had on is ffa loot.</span><hr></div></blockquote><p>believe me, pal - I'd be with the first batch of those who gladly delete a toon to start on a PD server. :smileyhappy:</p><p>and i bet that some 1000 players worldwide would eagerly take the challenge of a server that finally brings darwins law into the game: survivial of the fittest (skilled players) and death to the weaklings (players who dont think before they act).</p><p>Edit: corpses shouldnt be lootable of course so each death also serves the economy <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:34 AM</span></p>

[Chefren]

This would have to be a PvP server of course and since people are going to reroll a lot, item attunement should be removed. Stuff takes damage normally and you drop a chest <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> All your no-trade items will disintegrate of course. Again since people are going to die and reroll a lot, exp gain should be much greater for people to have a reasonable chance to reach even level 20 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<div>I haven't thought about faster XP gain for a PD server but it sounds reasonable.</div><div> </div><div>....but "deliver mesage" quests should give only few XP of course <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[tariq0]

<div></div><p>ok i can call myself sort of exp mmo player . I played EQ1 , GW , Daoc and unfortunatelly WoW.When i managed to walk my 4th character in 6 months to lvl 60 in WoW , while playing with no armor ..lol i figured out i need more challenge and came back to EQ2 .iI had lvl 16 Guardian here that i was playing for 4 months in spring of '05.</p><p>What I'm seeing is a joke , if it's not for tradeskilling i would be lvl 50-60 with my , presently lvl 36 pally ( and i"m played since beggining of February).There is less and less challenge and now they want to nerf tradeskill..ehm i spend 2/3 of time in Tradeskill instance and make armor, etc . Thats really my most pleasurable source of income .</p><p>What is going to be point now? I dunno , but if they make another cakewalk i will have to look for something more challenging.</p><p>I do vote for bringing back old restrictions, so in order for me to get to Zek i need to sweat my back off with access quest , not just casually go there when i feel like it.</p><p>I mean this is becoming joke of the game , almost as much WoW is<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[tariq0]

<div></div><div>and yeah, Soe please make one server , let's call it a Classic Server with all of old rules.That will make everyone happy.I am pretty sure that that server will filled to max capacity in matter of days <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Flor]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>tariq071 wrote:<div></div><div>and yeah, Soe please make one server , let's call it a Classic Server with all of old rules.That will make everyone happy.I am pretty sure that that server will filled to max capacity in matter of days <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote><p>Agree with you.  Then the people who feel as if they are being betrayed by SOE making this into an "easy" game can gravitate over there and we could put to rest the debates of the game becoming too easy.   I've always thought that a "hardcore" server would be a very good solution.  I wonder why SOE hasn't implemented something like this?</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Finora]

<div></div><div></div><div>You were never restricted to doing the access quest for Zek or EL etc. You just had to reach an certain level in Tradeskills or I believe adventure. I know I was wandering around harvesting in Everfrost and stuck my head into Lavastorm at level 29 adventurer due to my tradeskill level.</div><div> </div><div>I will agree that adventure leveling is extremely easy, however I am in the boat that timesink does not = challenge in anyway shape or form. Any idiot can sit and do something for hours on end. Skill is something else altogether. And if you find leveling too fast, you can turn off your adventure xp. I know I have it off on all of but one of my under 40 characters. You get to see more of the game and do more quests that way.</div><div> </div><div>The 'tradeskill nerf' isn't much of a nerf.  It actually increases the tedium unless you sit on a mountain of plat to buy harvests. Just a trade off, so instead of people actually doing what they wanted to do (tradeskill) they have to go out and harvest for 5-6 hours just to get enough to do an hour or 2 of crafting. My armorer doesn't even get that much time crafting out of several hours of harvesting since they moved those stupid loams to the ore nodes. As for chances of failure? I can count on 1 hand the unintentional non-pristines I've had between 273 combined character tradeskill levels.  Good crafter knows how to get a pristine. More combines aren't going to make much difference.</div><div> </div><div>I do most certainly wish they'd just make a hardcore server and allow transfers to it. Make xp debt much higher, make it so your armor is taken down 50% 100% by a death, make it so you have to retrieve your corpse. Remove the griffons/bells/porters and make it so people have to go the longway. Put the buggy boats back in so that to get from say Thundering Steppes to Nektulos they have to ride a boat instead of belling over.</div><div> </div><div>Maybe all these people who are dead set against things that actually improve the game experience (the porter in lavastorm and Sol Eye for example) can have it their way and leave the rest of us alone. It isn't as if you can port down to them without fighting your way to them to open them up anyway, those porters aren't 'freebies'.</div><div> </div><div>And just to point out it's not only people from WOW or newbies to MMO's that feel many of these changes aren't all bad nor do they dumb down the game, my gaming goes back to UO, EQ1 from near the beginning, as well as several others that I hated so I quit rather quickly before coming to EQ2 on the day of release. Nor am I someone who doesn't feel like I should have to work for something. I DO feel like we should have to work for something and have skill to obtain good things. Timesinks aren't work. They are just time. And timesinks require zero skill, so all those folks yelling about needing more time sinks to show their superior skill are full of something.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Calendri on <span class="date_text">03-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:55 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Calendri on <span class="date_text">03-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:55 PM</span></p>

[sharz]

i dont care if you quit go ahead you'll be less [Removed for Content] off<div></div>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Calendri wrote:<div></div><div></div><div> Timesinks aren't work. They are just time. And timesinks require zero skill, so all those folks yelling about needing more time sinks to show their superior skill are full of something.<hr></div></blockquote><div>just curious:</div><div> </div><div>what do YOU need to show superior skill?</div><div> </div><div>when did you felt the last time you showed *superior* skill?</div><div> </div><div>do you need the feling you just showed skill at all?</div>

[Suraklin]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Calendri wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>You were never restricted to doing the access quest for Zek or EL etc. You just had to reach an certain level in Tradeskills or I believe adventure. I know I was wandering around harvesting in Everfrost and stuck my head into Lavastorm at level 29 adventurer due to my tradeskill level.</div><div> </div><div>I will agree that adventure leveling is extremely easy, however I am in the boat that timesink does not = challenge in anyway shape or form. Any idiot can sit and do something for hours on end. Skill is something else altogether. And if you find leveling too fast, you can turn off your adventure xp. I know I have it off on all of but one of my under 40 characters. You get to see more of the game and do more quests that way.</div><div> </div><div>The 'tradeskill nerf' isn't much of a nerf.  It actually increases the tedium unless you sit on a mountain of plat to buy harvests. Just a trade off, so instead of people actually doing what they wanted to do (tradeskill) they have to go out and harvest for 5-6 hours just to get enough to do an hour or 2 of crafting. My armorer doesn't even get that much time crafting out of several hours of harvesting since they moved those stupid loams to the ore nodes. As for chances of failure? I can count on 1 hand the unintentional non-pristines I've had between 273 combined character tradeskill levels.  Good crafter knows how to get a pristine. More combines aren't going to make much difference.</div><div> </div><div>I do most certainly wish they'd just make a hardcore server and allow transfers to it. Make xp debt much higher, make it so your armor is taken down 50% 100% by a death, make it so you have to retrieve your corpse. Remove the griffons/bells/porters and make it so people have to go the longway. Put the buggy boats back in so that to get from say Thundering Steppes to Nektulos they have to ride a boat instead of belling over.</div><div> </div><div>Maybe all these people who are dead set against things that actually improve the game experience (the porter in lavastorm and Sol Eye for example) can have it their way and leave the rest of us alone. It isn't as if you can port down to them without fighting your way to them to open them up anyway, those porters aren't 'freebies'.</div><div> </div><div>And just to point out it's not only people from WOW or newbies to MMO's that feel many of these changes aren't all bad nor do they dumb down the game, my gaming goes back to UO, EQ1 from near the beginning, as well as several others that I hated so I quit rather quickly before coming to EQ2 on the day of release. Nor am I someone who doesn't feel like I should have to work for something. I DO feel like we should have to work for something and have skill to obtain good things. Timesinks aren't work. They are just time. And timesinks require zero skill, so all those folks yelling about needing more time sinks to show their superior skill are full of something.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Calendri on <span class="date_text">03-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:55 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Calendri on <span class="date_text">03-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:55 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><div>Wish they'd make a server like that too so you get off the normal ones and stop whining about how bad the game is because it's not this way. However, the same kind of wishes for old playstyle servers were asked for in SWG after NGE went live so the veterans could play the game they loved instead of the bullcrap version they changed SWG into.</div><div> </div><div> Guess what? It didn't happen. So about 50% of the subscribers to SWG quit and went to other MMO's. I just decided to play EQ2 full time instead of switching back and forth to SWG when I got bored with EQ2. If they made an old playstyle server for SWG though I'd start playing it again. This is SOE though.  They don't care. You'll either play what they want the game to be or you won't.</div><p>Message Edited by Suraklin on <span class="date_text">03-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:21 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Suraklin on <span class="date_text">03-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:22 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Suraklin on <span class="date_text">03-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:37 AM</span></p>

[btennison]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Calendri wrote:<div></div><div></div><div> Timesinks aren't work. They are just time. And timesinks require zero skill, so all those folks yelling about needing more time sinks to show their superior skill are full of something.<hr></div></blockquote><div>just curious:</div><div> </div><div>what do YOU need to show superior skill?</div><div> </div><div>when did you felt the last time you showed *superior* skill?</div><div> </div><div>do you need the feling you just showed skill at all?</div><hr></blockquote>My dog can sit and lick his butt for hours but I don't really see that as a demonstration of *superior* skill. :smileyvery-happy:

[Hamervelder]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div><div>my god, if people really dont like things to be time consuming, or challenging, or have risk vs reward... might as well put in /godmode for the folks that want to be uber w/ no work involved or whatever the case may be.</div><div>I quit once and you guys are driving me to again, i know im only 1 person but i know im not th eonly one who feels this way.i could go down the list of things youve already changed to make the game easier but thats all done and gone and id be bringing up old arguements.  So for the sake of that i wont..</div><div> </div><div>However, now you want to take out subcombines?  [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for?  what purpose does that serve?  Ooooh yea making it easier for someone to level a tradeskiller, thus bringing more crafted stuff to the market and making it easier for high level botters ect.  Great way to get the economy rollin, kinda li ke ffxi's /sarcasm off</div><div>Then you want to take the hq crafted items and make them easier to make?  As if taking the required rare out wasnt enough?  Good god..</div><div> </div><div>and a Teleporter within Sol Eye?  Hell im not gonan even ask!  The one from lava to sol eye wasnt enough?  I thought you werent giving players teleport spells so there would be some challenge.. This game is basically click n zoom around.  Now even in dungeons?  High end dungeons??   Am i the only one who feels this way??</div><div> </div><div>there is no risk vs reward, there is no being rewarded for skill.  Hell ya got pickup raids romping through GoAA, so sad..</div><p>Message Edited by klepp on <span class="date_text">02-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:05 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>1 - I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation as to why anyone thinks, for example, it is necessary to do fourteen subcombines to make one short sword.  Subcombines are neither challenging nor rewarding.  They are tedious.  Tedium eventually results in less player interest.</p><p>2 - Time sinks are neither risky nor challenging.  They are time-consuming.  Ask yourself:  Does the average player want to try to spend (for example) two or three hours camping the Caveroot Horror, then another two or three hours camping Bloodtalon, as PART of a quest?  Does the average player not want some gratification when they play?  Perhaps they want to feel like they did SOMETHING when they log out after playing for two or three hours.  Long time sinks are counter-productive in this regard; players are left feeling like they wasted their time.  Time wasted eventually begins to seem like money wasted.</p><p>3 - HQ crafted items: Your point?  Is it not enough that players have to (for example, on Stiletto's Orders) campt Stiletto, kill an epic mob, camp another mob, craft the bag, do an access quest, and do a ring event?  You're more than welcome to go harvest until you get the rare item if you want.  Other people's gameplay experiences have (or should have) no bearing on yours. </p><p>4 - Sol's Eye: You are more than welcome to run down to Naggy each and every time you want to go there.  Other people using teleporters does nothing to your game experience.</p><p>5 - Are you the only one that feels this way? Probably not.  But you're probably in the minority. </p><p>6 - There is very little skill required in EverQuest II.  It's all about pushing buttons, and operating within game mechanics.  Camping a mob for several hours or harvesting until you find a rare certainly do not qualify as skillful actions. </p><p> </p>

[Hamervelder]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Chefren wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<div></div><p>then why that tiny 1-2% XP debth a all? why that lame 2 minute "resurrection sickness"?</p><p>If being denied success and havin wated your time on that mob is allready  punishment (*LOL*) enough, than why that fig leaf at all? why arent players allowed to just go on?</p><p>in fact that lame death penalty merely exists so that SOE and the horde of wankers can say. "Nonononono....there still IS a death penalty"</p><p>thats the only purpose.....</p><hr></blockquote>I hope they introduce a new hardcore server with permadeath: you die, you reroll and all the stuff you had on is ffa loot.</span></div><hr></blockquote>Here here!  All the hard-core "bring back the challenge" folks can go there!  What's more challenging than re-rolling every time you die?

[Flor]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>btennison wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Calendri wrote:<div></div><div></div><div> Timesinks aren't work. They are just time. And timesinks require zero skill, so all those folks yelling about needing more time sinks to show their superior skill are full of something.<hr></div></blockquote><div>just curious:</div><div> </div><div>what do YOU need to show superior skill?</div><div> </div><div>when did you felt the last time you showed *superior* skill?</div><div> </div><div>do you need the feling you just showed skill at all?</div><hr></blockquote>My dog can sit and lick his butt for hours but I don't really see that as a demonstration of *superior* skill. :smileyvery-happy:<hr></blockquote><p>lol, you made me snort up a full cup of coffee all over my keyboard.  Thanks a lot...:smileyvery-happy:</p><p>It's funny how people equate severe death penelties to "skill" in a game.   Even in "easy" games like WoW, I met many very, very good players who were just as skilled an any player you could find in EQ1, EQ2, etc.  Players can play a game with "skill" whether there is a harsh death penalty or no death penalty at all.   Playing a game where there is a great amount of tedium doesn't make you automatically into an uber elite skilled player no matter what you want to believe about yourselves.  It just makes you someone who has a great deal of patience and willingness to invest much of your time into an artificially created timesink.</p><p> </p>

[Tradeskill_Addict]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>btennison wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Calendri wrote:<div></div><div></div><div> Timesinks aren't work. They are just time. And timesinks require zero skill, so all those folks yelling about needing more time sinks to show their superior skill are full of something.<hr></div></blockquote><div>just curious:</div><div> </div><div>what do YOU need to show superior skill?</div><div> </div><div>when did you felt the last time you showed *superior* skill?</div><div> </div><div>do you need the feling you just showed skill at all?</div><hr></blockquote>My dog can sit and lick his butt for hours but I don't really see that as a demonstration of *superior* skill. :smileyvery-happy:<hr></blockquote><p>ok, your dog cant demonstrate skill. i take note of that.</p><p>but maybe at least YOU can  - and i am curious about your opinion  when you feel like you just showed skill playing EQ2</p><p>because if you NEVER enjoy that feeling - your playing experience adequates your dog continuosly licking his butt......:smileytongue:</p><p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class="date_text">03-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:40 AM</span></p>

[Emirikol]

<div></div><strong></strong><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Hamervelder wrote:</p><p>1 - I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation as to why anyone thinks, for example, it is necessary to do fourteen subcombines to make one short sword.  Subcombines are neither challenging nor rewarding.  They are tedious.  Tedium eventually results in less player interest.</p><p><strong>Think you missed my earlier point.  Interims were tedius.  Replacing them with 10-20x as much harvesting and a bunch of 1.5% final combines is not less tedius.... in fact is moreso.  Probably agreeing with you but I want to emphasize that the new system isn't better than the old and is actually worse in many ways.</strong></p><p>3 - HQ crafted items: Your point?  Is it not enough that players have to (for example, on Stiletto's Orders) campt Stiletto, kill an epic mob, camp another mob, craft the bag, do an access quest, and do a ring event?  You're more than welcome to go harvest until you get the rare item if you want.  Other people's gameplay experiences have (or should have) no bearing on yours. </p><p><strong>Not all content is meant to be available to every character.  If it isn't worth your time or doesn't peak your interest... go doing something else.   I think I'm agreeing with you here.</strong></p><p>6 - There is very little skill required in EverQuest II.  It's all about pushing buttons, and operating within game mechanics.  Camping a mob for several hours or harvesting until you find a rare certainly do not qualify as skillful actions. </p><p><strong>There is some strategy skills in EQ2, but nothing that couldn't and hasn't been gleaned from a website pretty easily.  Knowing which monster to camp vs just waiting to get lucky is somewhat more skillfull.  In all fairness, the game does require some skill in the same way that say Volleyball does.  It's easy enough for people to pick up.  What the game doesn't require is natural talent.</strong></p><hr></blockquote>