ring imbues... plat wasted... didnt see it coming?

[sarsippi]

<div>I'll prolly get flamed for this, but oh well.</div><div> </div><div>I see a bunch of people saying, omg omg so I just wasted my gold/plat on imbued rings cause I thought they'd give me 32 int/ wis/stam... whatever per ring?</div><div> </div><div>On my server, since they became non-cast and stackable, everyones been saying "that wont last" or "thats gonna be nerfed" or "thats to powerful compared to fabled rings". I guess people should have listened a bit. But now, you hear you've wasted you're hard earned plat and now your listening. </div><div> </div><div>Though, in defense, it didnt mean it was overpowered. It doesnt mean they were gonna change it, within a week, true. But notice how everyone ran to get 2 of the same stat imbue rings? When ever people rush to do something, dont expect it to last long, lol.</div><div> </div><div>Everyones wasted gold/plat  on these rings. Who ever has them equipped right now has wasted gold/ plat on them. I have 3 rings that I had gotten before they became non-cast, I wasted plat on that ring long ago. Though, I'm lvl 60 and got them when I was lvl 50 so I got quite a bit of use out of them. And I'm ready for T7 so it wont be that much longer that I need to go before I'll replace them anyway. I prolly wont even bother to get them imbued with these new versions, they look pretty useless to me. Though it depends on how much more it would cost, if its just a few gold I will, but more then that and it wont be worth it to me. But I imagine just the extract alone will be about 20 gold, at least,  when KoS 1st hits.</div>

[Magu]

Actually it won't be a complete waste, as 2x proc item = 2x the chance to proc, as it will roll for each item.<div></div>

[Edyil]

<div>I say [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fabled.  I don't have any and probably won't get much... ever.  Nor do I have the inclination to go get any (via farming err raiding i mean).  So [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fabled and stop the comparison.</div><div> </div><div>You boneheads at SOE need to stop making major changes to the game based on raiding phatzorz lewtz drops.  Most people don't give a rats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about those sparklie pixels.</div><div> </div><div>Someone else posted that you should put in a vendor that will buy our rings back for 2p (for T6 only obviously) or perhaps 1p and 1 T6 rare.  Limit it to current rings of course.  Or perhaps a 1 time transaction.</div>

[Rhianni]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>sarsippius wrote:<div>I'll prolly get flamed for this, but oh well.</div><div> </div><div>I see a bunch of people saying, omg omg so I just wasted my gold/plat on imbued rings cause I thought they'd give me 32 int/ wis/stam... whatever per ring?</div><div> </div><div>On my server, since they became non-cast and stackable, everyones been saying "that wont last" or "thats gonna be nerfed" or "thats to powerful compared to fabled rings". I guess people should have listened a bit. But now, you hear you've wasted you're hard earned plat and now your listening. </div><hr></blockquote>Thats what I had been thinking for months on the old style rings.  That they couldnt have intended to cycle through items every 30 minutes.  Then I had thought that if they changed it once thats how they wanted it.  Silly us for thinking we could count on SOE thinking something through.

[RedRockCandy!]

<div></div>Every crafter needed to have that one "must have item" so they could get business. So what if the jeweler rings were better than fabled?Anyway, I don't think this is as bad as it looks. If they up the percentage rate of the proc and depending on what each proc does, the rings will still be valuable.<div></div>

[Rashaak]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Edyil wrote:<div>I say [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fabled.  I don't have any and probably won't get much... ever.  Nor do I have the inclination to go get any (via farming err raiding i mean).  So [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fabled and stop the comparison.</div><div> </div><div>You boneheads at SOE need to stop making major changes to the game based on raiding phatzorz lewtz drops.  Most people don't give a rats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about those sparklie pixels.</div><div> </div><div>Someone else posted that you should put in a vendor that will buy our rings back for 2p (for T6 only obviously) or perhaps 1p and 1 T6 rare.  Limit it to current rings of course.  Or perhaps a 1 time transaction.</div><hr></blockquote><p>WoW! Your constructive....</p><p>I didn't even make it past the second haxx0red before I scrolled right past your ...VERY, intellegently thought out post...</p><p>Only a fool would of tryed to beat the stat system by buying two of the same stat rings...basically called an exploit, and SoE caught it..and doing something about it.</p><p>Do I like the proc idea? No...</p><p>But, atleast there doing something to try to ensure the game stays as balanced as it can, and ensuring the item tree (Handcrafted, Legendary, Fabled) doesn't loose it's value</p>

[schatjager]

<div></div><span><span><span>Um...  how was that an exploit when SOE told us that they stack?   and we can wear 2 of the same rings to get the stat??<blockquote><hr>Rashaak wrote:<div></div><b>Only a fool would of tryed to beat the stat system by buying two of the same stat rings...basically called an exploit, and SoE caught it..and doing something about it.</b><hr></blockquote></span></span></span>From the LU notes:- Imbued jewelry now applies its effects permanently while it is worn. Imbued effects from these items will stack. For example, wearing two rings with the same strength buff will apply two strength buffs.<p>Message Edited by schatjager on <span class="date_text">02-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:36 AM</span></p>

[valkyrja]

I bought mine before any of the changes.  I only have 1 INT ring.  But I bought it because it had a good clicky on it.  The way it is being changed, it doesn't. I would not spend 2 plat for a ring that has a 3% chance to proc, unless it's proc is a deatblow.  I'm not a raider, and at at the level cap, 2pp is a lot of money for me to feel like I threw away.<div></div>

[thomasza]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>schatjager wrote:<div></div><span><span><span>Um...  how was that an exploit when SOE told us that they stack?   and we can wear 2 of the same rings to get the stat??<blockquote><hr>Rashaak wrote:<div></div><b>Only a fool would of tryed to beat the stat system by buying two of the same stat rings...basically called an exploit, and SoE caught it..and doing something about it.</b><hr></blockquote></span></span></span>From the LU notes:- Imbued jewelry now applies its effects permanently while it is worn. Imbued effects from these items will stack. For example, wearing two rings with the same strength buff will apply two strength buffs.<p>Message Edited by schatjager on <span class="date_text">02-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:36 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>There goes 5p, nice moneysink you created SoE. Wonder who the dev was who made this blunder. Its not just a mistake he made, one week after approving the system they suddenly get the bright knowledge of stuff being overpowered. (i would start to think they had someone on sick leave and they shoved in an SWG dev to help out and we all know how they screwed up that game). And knowing SoE: gameplay may change...forget about that 5p..sorry for the inconvnience and thank you for paying our bills, dont worry we will find something else to screw you again too!

[Rashaak]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>schatjager wrote:<div></div><span><span><span>Um...  how was that an exploit when SOE told us that they stack?   and we can wear 2 of the same rings to get the stat??<blockquote><hr>Rashaak wrote:<div></div><b>Only a fool would of tryed to beat the stat system by buying two of the same stat rings...basically called an exploit, and SoE caught it..and doing something about it.</b><hr></blockquote></span></span></span>From the LU notes:- Imbued jewelry now applies its effects permanently while it is worn. Imbued effects from these items will stack. For example, wearing two rings with the same strength buff will apply two strength buffs.<p>Message Edited by schatjager on <span class="date_text">02-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:36 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>It's an exploit because now two of the same stat ring...of a legendary nature provides more than that of a fabled item, thus negating the fabled items stats and bonuses, making it a low sellable item to almost considered vendor trash.</p><p>Just like it was an exploit before LU19 when peeps buying 5 set's of imbued rings just to get the imbued effect, then switching to fabled.</p><p>Just like grouping with a high level to grey out a zone to get to the named encounter then mentoring to obtain the loot drop. That was an exploit, and aggro rules were changed to balance it out.</p>

[Qaman]

<div>I don't think that word means what you think it means.</div>

[schatjager]

<div>LOL<span><blockquote><hr>Qaman wrote:<div>I don't think that word means what you think it means.</div><hr></blockquote>Yes..   that would not be an exploit as the EQ2 community describes them (something that adds an advantage that goes around how SOE intended the gameplay mechanics to work)..  I would define the LU19 change as bad planning / oversites / not seeing the true outcome of the change, as the dev stated that it could be done and was intended to be used in the manner that the rings are being used... and as for a money sink, I would have to disagree as the money just changed hands from the buyer to the jeweler.   The only money sink that SOE would have gained from it would be the broker fee only if the person bought it off the broker.</span></div>

[Craig3]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p><span>Rashaak,</span></p><p><span>How can you call this an exploit? It was intentionally put in the update! </span></p><p><span>I have never grayed out an area, or used a low level to farm masters, or even use multiple rings for the stat boost but when this came out in the update, I used a pearl and spent 20g to buy an additional ring. I sold my previous ring for almost nothing even though it was better than the new version of these rings will be.</span></p><p><span>The rare is not a huge deal and the 20g is nothing but it is still very very frustrating. There have been tons of suggestions on the boards that IMO are much much better than the proc idea.</span></p><p><span>Fine, the fable stat is +25 and the legendary is +32 with the buff. Then make the buff +12 or someting so I'm not stuck with a mediocre ring.</span></p><p>Message Edited by Craig300 on <span class="date_text">02-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:28 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Craig300 on <span class="date_text">02-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:30 AM</span></p>

[SalBlu]

<div></div><p>I dont see the change as bad at all.</p><p>The original rings were bound to get changed.  You never should have been able to cycle each ring on, cast the buff, then dump it in your pack again.  I saw a change to that coming for quite a while, and I never understood why it stayed in the game so long.</p><p>The newest change was bound for a re-change.  It has been stated over and over and over again, and Legendary crafted armor would be a mid level target for players to aim for in order to outfit themselves in standard all around good equipment.  Fabled has ALWAYS been said to be the next step up in terms of stats for equipment across the board, and this includes rings.  With the stackable +32 stat rings, we're looking at humongous stat jumps from an item that blows away pretty much all fabled rings ingame with very exclusive exception. </p><p>This is not right.</p><p>But... I think the new rings should have the same proc as what you'd get on armor, IE, similar to the health proc from a crafted chestpiece, or a damage proc from a crafted legpiece, with the same % chance for proc.</p>

[Sunrayn]

<div></div><p>I had one T6 agi ring and one T6 wis.  I wore them to bolster those stats a bit.</p><p>Agility ring is still...useable...for lack of a better word.  I do use CAs quite often in a fight  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Wis ring....Well, I went through my entire book looking for a spell that I could spam to trigger it...</p><p>Guess what? Guardians dont have any spells to trigger the wis ring.</p><p>Developers must have forgotten that they made Wisdom increase Resists.</p><p> </p><p>Sunrayn, 57 guard--Test</p>

[Baelzharon]

<div></div>Gotta love it, a year ago and during Beta all SoE said and repeated was that the best loot would be player made off of rare raws dropped off of epic encounters. Now that's changed to just rare drops?? If I wanted to play EQlive I would, and not this impersonation of it.

[ilucife]

imho this is what all the whining about T6 crafted making T5 fabled worthless (some exceptions) got us. people get upset that they spends weeks trying to kill a named mob(working out a strat), finally kill him and he drops a crappy ring with like 18str on it, where a crafted ring adds 32, and you can wear 2 of them. SOE i guess is trying to balance this out (nice only 4 months after the release).it honestly does amaze me that they would change something twice in 2 updates, but it gives me a headache to think that this has probably been in the works for a month or two(i would agrue that it takes the dev team about a month to crank out an update from the ground up) so they knew last week that with lu 19 that lu 20 was going to be negated, and they still did it. thats kinda pisses me off to be honest.the idea of it procing is STUPID, so lets get this straight, a swashy, brig, assasin, dirges, etc can proc both rings but not their offhand weapon, hmmmmm that really doesnt make sense.one day the devs are going to cause everyone's computer that plays this game to explode, becasue it will cease to make any kind or sense whatsoever. the game wont know whether its starting up or shutting down.<div></div>

[DragonML]

<div></div><blockquote><hr><div></div><p>Only a fool would of tryed to beat the stat system by buying two of the same stat rings...<strong>basically called an exploit, and SoE caught it..and doing something about it.</strong></p><hr><p>Dude it can't be an exploit that they "caught" when it was in the PATCH notes. If it had not been in the patch notes, I would have assumed it was a mistake. But when they put something in the patch notes you tend to think it's working as intended.</p><p>What I want to know is how as a person who doesn't raid very often and doesn't know what the stats of fabled gear are was I suppose to "know" (as so many claim) that the rings were overpowered and bound to be nerfed. I never cycled through the clicky rings - never had that many rares to spend. I had no idea these rings were always "overpowered" in tier 6 and better than fabled.</p><p>As a matter of fact, it was confusing the heck out of me for awhile why these complaints about the rings being overpowered only came about after the LU that made them worn. It's so clear now that I feel foolish. As long as the fabled rings wearers could <strong>exploit </strong>(you know a REAL exploit not something listed in the patch notes) the clicky rings AND wear their fabled rings they didn't care about them being overpowered. Now that they can no longer benefit from them, we are all getting the shaft.</p></blockquote>

[Whazy]

<div></div><div></div><p>From LU#19 notes:</p><p><font size="2"><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Items ***</font></strong>- Throwing weapons can now reside within any type of ammo pouch.- Ammo bags in your base inventory will now accept ranged ammunition before other inventory bags.- Item drop rates now obey the same rules as experience does when damage is contributed by people or creatures other than the group or person that engages an encounter. That is, you will be less likely to find treasure chests on creatures who players outside of your group help fight. The more damage they do, the less likely you will be to obtain the loot.<font color="#ff9966">-<strong> Imbued jewelry now applies its effects permanently while it is worn. Imbued effects from these items will stack. For example, wearing two rings with the same strength buff will apply two strength buffs.</strong></font>- All creature Lore and Legend items now stack. These items are also no longer Lore.- Language items are no longer Lore and No Value and can stack.- Reading is fun! Share (most) of your book page finds with your friends, as they are no longer flagged as No Trade.- Creature corpse loot items should no longer carry the Uncommon or Handcrafted titles.- The items effects Flow of Fyr'un and Prismatic Glow no longer stack.</font></p><p>This shows the rings were intentionally changed by SoE to make them stack.  People bought extra rings, based on what SoE said here.  It wasn't an "oops" on SoE's part: they did this intentionally.   If the proposed change goes through as it is now, then SoE is showing that their word cannot be trusted.  I do not appreciate losing plat in game because of SoE.  I do not appreciate paying for a service (Station Access for 2 accounts for my household) and have the company I am giving my money too show indifference towards their customer base at their errors.</p><p>Additionally, the permanent buffs were the same buffs as when you had to click the ring every 15 minutes.  They are the same buffs that went into effect when SoE introduced Imbuing to EQ2 quite a few months ago.  SoE caused this issue and they really seem uninterested in how their bi-polar decision making process affects their customer base.  SoE's actions caused many of their players to use resources (coin, or rare harvests or both) to buy/create these rings based on what SoE said in LU#19.</p><p>If the change to these rings goes that is currently on Test goes live, SoE needs to offer some kind of a.) sincere apology, and b.)some way for the players to recoup some of their platinum/rares.  I'd suggest an NPC in the 2 cities that would trade the imbued rings for the raw components used to create the rings.  Then people could decide what they want to do with those items.</p><p>Finally, SoE sould review its decision making process so this sort of bi-polar idiocy will not happen again.</p><p>Whazy the Annoyed.</p><p>Message Edited by Whazy on <span class="date_text">02-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:31 AM</span></p>

[Qandor]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rashaak wrote:<div></div><p>Only a fool would of tryed to beat the stat system by buying two of the same stat rings...basically called an exploit, and SoE caught it..and doing something about it.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>Buy a clue. From the patch LU19 patch notes I give you</p><p><font color="#ffff33">Imbued jewelry now applies its effects permanently while it is worn. Imbued effects from these items will stack. For example, wearing two rings with the same strength buff will apply two strength buffs.</font></p><p><font color="#ffffff">Not only was SOE aware they would stack they actually went out of their way to give an example. Now you are going to sit there and say using 2 was an exploit and that they "caught it"? ROFL</font></p>

[Qandor]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>DragonMLRS wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr><div></div><p>Only a fool would of tryed to beat the stat system by buying two of the same stat rings...<strong>basically called an exploit, and SoE caught it..and doing something about it.</strong></p><hr><p>Dude it can't be an exploit that they "caught" when it was in the PATCH notes. If it had not been in the patch notes, I would have assumed it was a mistake. But when they put something in the patch notes you tend to think it's working as intended.</p><p>What I want to know is how as a person who doesn't raid very often and doesn't know what the stats of fabled gear are was I suppose to "know" (as so many claim) that the rings were overpowered and bound to be nerfed. I never cycled through the clicky rings - never had that many rares to spend. I had no idea these rings were always "overpowered" in tier 6 and better than fabled.</p><p>As a matter of fact, it was confusing the heck out of me for awhile why these complaints about the rings being overpowered only came about after the LU that made them worn. It's so clear now that I feel foolish. As long as the fabled rings wearers could <strong>exploit </strong>(you know a REAL exploit not something listed in the patch notes) the clicky rings AND wear their fabled rings they didn't care about them being overpowered. Now that they can no longer benefit from them, we are all getting the shaft.</p></blockquote><hr></blockquote>Bingo, you just hit the nail on the head. All was fine when a certain contingent of the population could exploit them. When that recycle thing was negated then it all of a sudden became too powerful. What a joke.

[Morel42]

<div></div><p> </p><p> It's a BS change.</p>

[Foiled Aga]

Yep more reason to leave.<div></div>

[Kylae]

<div></div><div></div><div><font size="2">All valid points and I have but 1 question? </font></div><div> </div><div><font size="5"><strong>What was wrong with the way they were before LU #19?</strong></font></div><div><strong><font size="5"></font></strong> </div><div><font size="2">There was no complaining at that point that I recall.  You simply had a ring, clicked on it to activate the buff for 15 minutes and went about your business.  I never thought that it was overpowering, hell, it took a rare.  After LU#19 with the change, everyone was able to have stack-able ring buffs.  I just don't see the problem nor the logic.  Why would you buy a ring now?</font></div><div><font size="2"></font> </div><div><font size="2">Just had to add my 2 cents on the Fabled vs Tier 6 debate....  Say it with me, Fabled gear is UNDERPOWERED!  The T6 crafted rings are not.  Each tier has had the same ring types with increasing stats as you went up in tier.  Its been that way since when?  LAUNCH!  Does that sound like its not working as intended?  DoF had T6 crafted scale the same as T5, the difference is that Fabled T6 does not compare to crafted T6 the same as T5 fabled compares to crafted T5.  That is the problem.  </font></div><div><font size="2"></font> </div><p>Message Edited by Kylae on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:51 AM</span></p>

[Hizel]

<div></div><p>Is there a way to decrease the value of the buff that you get from the ring?  22 to a stat does seem a bit high, but come on..how can you just change all of those rings from the nice click cast, to some proc...what caster is ever going to get these rings?  They don't try to get hit, and if they are high % then tanks can abuse them.  You had it right the first time guys.</p><p>One step forward in this case was one in the wrong direction.</p>

[Kegofbud]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:Actually it won't be a complete waste, as 2x proc item = 2x the chance to proc, as it will roll for each item.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Hurray for 2 x 2% chance to proc. (=crap)Rings were overpowered, but existed that way for 1 year. Only thing that changed was stack-ability and no cast. They shouldn't have baited the people in to buying them to announe a nerf 3 days later. That is where the problem lies. If they had never made that change and patch note, then nerfed in this manner; people would have been much more accepting. Fact is, they knowingly made a change that sucked plat out of the game.<p>Message Edited by Kegofbud on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:54 AM</span></p>

[Edyil]

<div></div>It truely is entertaining to listen to these morons say "you should have seen it coming" when there is absolutely no difference between "working as intended" and a major [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] up.

[Arbrelax]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Kegofbud wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:Actually it won't be a complete waste, as 2x proc item = 2x the chance to proc, as it will roll for each item.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Hurray for 2 x 2% chance to proc. (=crap)Rings were overpowered, but existed that way for 1 year. Only thing that changed was stack-ability and no cast. They shouldn't have baited the people in to buying them to announe a nerf 3 days later. That is where the problem lies. If they had never made that change and patch note, then nerfed in this manner; people would have been much more accepting. Fact is, they knowingly made a change that sucked plat out of the game.<p>Message Edited by Kegofbud on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:54 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>I'm not sure how any of these changes sucked plat out of the game - other than on higher broker's fees paid if you paid more through a broker.  If someone paid 5 plat for a ring it didn't disappear . . .it went into the pocket of the seller, presumably the crafter.  Most high price sales I do as a jeweler are direct - either via mail or in my apartment when in seller mode so no broker fee at all.  So if SOE was thinking this was a plat drain it was an inneficient way to do so.  Don't really think that was the motivation.</p><p>The poster who called the double stacking, non clicky version of the rings an "exploit" doesn't know how to read the EULA , as something they design in and annouce as being able to occur is surely intended (and therefore cannot be an Exploit).  At least it is intended as that is defined in the English language - I think it might even meet the "legal" definition of 'intent" were a trial in a U.S. Court of law held.  :smileywink:</p><p>Personally, I think calling the imbued versions as they were after LU19 "a buff" is a misnomer.  True, when you put them on a pretty little icon appeared in maintained spells window that said how much your (insert Stat here) was increased, but since it was ALWAYS on when you had the ring on (as opposed to the prior clicky version which required seperate activation and could wear off) - it in effect was simply a BOOST to that specific stat on the ring.  They could have more easily just changed the base stat in question on the ring and avoided a lot of programing.  In fact if they had done it that way they might have immediately noticed how they had shot them past the stats on fabled items by simply comparing the numbers. </p><p>If they thought the stats were too high and were "interfering" with the desirability of other items in game why not just dial back on the increased stat a bit?  Why do they have to do things the hard way?</p><p>We may not have insight into the entire STAT/BUFF/Whatever matrix of items they are working with but, come on SOE, why do things the hard way?  :smileyvery-happy:  And always changing them to boot!</p><p>Message Edited by Arbrelax on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:28 AM</span></p>

[ilucife]

i agree fable in t6 wasnt well thought out. and what we have to realize is that its already be increased once. but i dunno, i stopped applying any kinda of logic to this game a couple months ago<div></div>

[Cynto]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Arbrelax wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Kegofbud wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:Actually it won't be a complete waste, as 2x proc item = 2x the chance to proc, as it will roll for each item.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Hurray for 2 x 2% chance to proc. (=crap)Rings were overpowered, but existed that way for 1 year. Only thing that changed was stack-ability and no cast. They shouldn't have baited the people in to buying them to announe a nerf 3 days later. That is where the problem lies. If they had never made that change and patch note, then nerfed in this manner; people would have been much more accepting. Fact is, they knowingly made a change that sucked plat out of the game.<p>Message Edited by Kegofbud on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:54 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p><strong><u>I'm not sure how any of these changes sucked plat out of the game - other than on higher broker's fees paid if you paid more through a broker.</u> </strong> If someone paid 5 plat for a ring it didn't disappear . . .it went into the pocket of the seller, presumably the crafter.  Most high price sales I do as a jeweler are direct - either via mail or in my apartment when in seller mode so no broker fee at all.  So if SOE was thinking this was a plat drain it was an inneficient way to do so.  Don't really think that was the motivation.</p><hr></blockquote><p>This is not to flame you, just to point out that there is more than just a broker fee involved in creating rings. I'm no jeweler, but I would assume the pricing structure to be about the same for imbued stuff. That said, it costs me as an armorer anywhere from 9g to 14g to make ONE piece of armor, and thats not counting the drinks I consume etc, etc, while making it. I would assume that making one imbued ring costs about the same. So, while this wouldn't have been a 1 to 3 plat a shot money sink, it would still be pretty effective money sink not counting any broker fees on top of the cost of creation. And the way that they announced they would stack and gave an example just seems to me to make it more likely for people go to "OMG they stack now! I gotta get me some more rings!".</p><p>Again, I don't think this was an error on their part, not if they've already got the new system all planned out and from what i've heard has been the way they've worked all through KoS beta. It seems almost malicious in its intent. Whether they meant to suck money out of the system or just jerk us around I don't know, but its seeming less and less like an error to me. I also don't think that the one response I saw on the 11pg thread about this from one of the Devs was very productive either. It seemed condicending and rather rude. Kind of a "Well too F-ing bad! Deal with it!" post, but thats just me.</p>

[Shirlyn]

Frankly I'm very very upset over this.I bought 2 imbued rings for my fury, 1 INT and 1 WIS pre-LU19. I wore them, and clicked them on every time they ran out. It really helped my stats. It was nice when I didn't have to click them on anymore, but changing them to a proc? please.I'm sorry, but I feel absolutely no sympathy for the raiders who are whining that their fabled isn't as good as the rare crafted imbued rings. There is a reason these things are rare. They're not easy to get w/o either spending a lot of time or money getting them. Some of us will never be able to get fabled gear, as we are not in raiding guilds, and don't have a ton of money, nor the time to go harvest for rares to sell, or go farm tough mobs.These rings were a way that we could get good stats w/o raiding being a requirement.You know, there's an easy way to fix this. Make the rings non-stackable and a permanent buff. No a proc for heaven's sake.<div></div>

[Timzil]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:Actually it won't be a complete waste, as 2x proc item = 2x the chance to proc, as it will roll for each item.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Naw, it's pretty much an utter waste. I think most people will need to wear rings that give them the best overall stats. A sub-standard stat ring, such as player made, won't cut it for full time jewelry. The buff procs alone aren't enough to sell them. Would have to be a pretty big buff and a near always on proc rate to justify the stat tradeoff.

[Happyfunba]

<div>To those discussing the "plat drain" concept, at least part of the point may be missing.</div><div> </div><div>It may not have directly drained plat out of the game, but it absolutely drained a large amount of rares out of the game which really is no better. Particularly if the end result for many of them is that they're now rendered useless to their respective owners. The money from those players is indeed drained, whether it ends up going back to Sony or just to another player's character. They won't see that money returned so yes, it is a plat drain in that regard, and I strongly believe at least some people were mislead into taking that path.</div><div> </div><div>But really, it's a "rare drain" more than anything else.</div><div> </div><div>As but one possible example, my main is a tank who lacks wisdom. I was quite tempted even before the LU19 change to purchase a Wisdom imbued ring to help enhance my overall resists. Believe it or not, 22 Wisdom is an acceptable increase in regards to resists; much more so than the 20+ hit points I get from an extra 22 Stamina. If any non-healing person bought such a ring, under the LU20 settings that ring will become completely useless to them as they will have no means of getting it to proc. That rare is now gone, whether they bought it from another player or spent their own play-time harvesting for it. And even more sad is the realization that it could have been used for something that more directly enhances that person's character instead.</div><div> </div><div>Thankfully, I did not go forward in purchasing a Wisdom ring, but for those non-healers who did I can absolutely see where they are right to be upset by this change. And again, this is not the only scenario where players with certain rings will now suddenly be left with little or no hope of ever seeing it's desired benefit.</div><div> </div><div>An extremely reasonable and logical fix has been mentioned over and over with no response from the Dev team as to it's validity. If the fear is that players are stacking non-worn effects then change rings in that manner (which LU19 did). If the fear is that players are now gaining too much of an increase due to the worn effect, adjust the numbers so it can be more in line with Treasured and Fabled drops in that tier. It is truly not that difficult of an adjustment to make, and would possitively be accepted --however reluctantly -- by the vast majority of the player base.</div>

[Astery]

yes, many fabled are underpowered. as an example comparing my vanadium necklace to serrated claw fabled necklace... not any better.imbued rings were fine before LU19. only thing they should have fixed is cycling. when ring is taken off, the buff it is associcated with should have been cleared right away...that way you couldnt use two INT rings to boost mages damage significantly (yes, i got a warlock before you ask), there would be reason to look for fabled gear later.now tell me one thing guys, what am i going to do with my 2 int pearl rings if we go back before LU19.also i dislike this proc-ing solution as planned. however with 5% proc, and allowing all the other jewels (like bracelets) imbued the similar way, would make sense to go this way. all you need to do is to cap imbued ability stat gain, so noone will try to get all jewels INT imbued (unless they are desparate to get to the maximum INT as soon as possible in any fight).that way if you want INT buffed up as soon as possbile, you would imbue all your jewels with flash of intelligence, so the chances they proc is much higher, still, you wont get overpowered becuse they added effect would be capped to a reasonable limit.what i start to dislike in EQ2 gameplay changes is the simplification. i would love to see more factors, details, possibilites in my gear.

[Zis]

<div></div><div>Put it back to activate, if you unequip ring buff goes.  I think that would make the most people happy.  Even reduce it a little if you want.  But nerfing thousands of players who aren't big time raiders doesn't seem fair ...why not just make better t6 fabled rings drop?  Its just rings people have an issue with right?  So give something spiffy to the sparkly pretty fabled ones and let the rest of us go on with our lives.</div><div> </div><div>I understand that as an MMO progresses, things change -- but don't leave something in game for months and then all of a sudden nerf the entire non-raiding-guild lvl 50-60 population  because people whine that their raid fableds aren't good enough.   People spend money on these items because they expect them to be there for the duration, not until the next live update.</div>

[Arbrelax]

<div></div><p><font color="#ff0033"></font> </p><blockquote><hr>Cynto wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Arbrelax wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr></blockquote><p><strong><u>I'm not sure how any of these changes sucked plat out of the game - other than on higher broker's fees paid if you paid more through a broker.</u> </strong> If someone paid 5 plat for a ring it didn't disappear . . .it went into the pocket of the seller, presumably the crafter.  Most high price sales I do as a jeweler are direct - either via mail or in my apartment when in seller mode so no broker fee at all.  So if SOE was thinking this was a plat drain it was an inneficient way to do so.  Don't really think that was the motivation.</p><hr></blockquote><p>This is not to flame you, just to point out that there is more than just a broker fee involved in creating rings. I'm no jeweler, but I would assume the pricing structure to be about the same for imbued stuff. That said, it costs me as an armorer anywhere from 9g to 14g to make ONE piece of armor, and thats not counting the drinks I consume etc, etc, while making it. I would assume that making one imbued ring costs about the same. So, while this wouldn't have been a 1 to 3 plat a shot money sink, it would still be pretty effective money sink not counting any broker fees on top of the cost of creation. And the way that they announced they would stack and gave an example just seems to me to make it more likely for people go to "OMG they stack now! I gotta get me some more rings!".</p><p>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________</p></blockquote><p>:smileywink:</p><p>Well, (and not in the mode of <font color="#ff3333">flaming</font> but in the spirit of more thorough analysis which you profer) if you are going to parse the "plat drain" concept that far Cinto you should have continued your analysis.  Except for food, potions and poisons which are actually consumed and disappear from the game completely, the fuel cost of production (except for production stops to avoid non-pristines) do remain in the game.  They are built into the resale price of the item to NPC vendors.  Therefore when someone determines that they have outgrown an item or it is rendered worthless in their opinion by changes such as those under discussion, what does the rational player do with the attuned item?  Trash it?  Nope they sell to NPC and Voila the fuel costs + some minor bit for the value of the raws reappears.  Another possible drain might be house items, but again the plat cost of fuel IS conserved although it may not circulate being frozen as long as the player keeps the item.  As for food/drink - personally, crafting is the one time I tend not to eat/drink as I never need the power and the HP drains are far less deadly (no more Deaths by Forge for me).</p><p>So, I stand by my original assertion that to call gyrations in item quality/nerfing and consequent tradeskilling in response thereto a plat drain is really a minor (if that) side issue and certainly not a designers' goal (unless the designers are actually former government economists who have been running the show for the last few years :smileysurprised: )</p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Happyfunball wrote:<div>To those discussing the "plat drain" concept, at least part of the point may be missing.</div><div> </div><div>It may not have directly drained plat out of the game, but it absolutely drained a large amount of rares out of the game which really is no better. Particularly if the end result for many of them is that they're now rendered useless to their respective owners. The money from those players is indeed drained, whether it ends up going back to Sony or just to another player's character. They won't see that money returned so yes, it is a plat drain in that regard, and I strongly believe at least some people were mislead into taking that path.</div><div> </div><div>But really, it's a "rare drain" more than anything else.</div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>Happyfurball hits what I believe is the most important point - Dissapointed player expectations.  They have wasted their TIME - time spent earning the plat to buy the items (or for those who commissioned items spent harvesting the rares) that are now worthless to them.  I don't include time spent by crafters because the size of my bank account (due to the Plat transfer, not drain) from all the items I have sold makes at least me feel pretty good.  :smileysurprised:  Some crafters will feel disappointed as well for lost time spent making inventory that will soon be rendered useless if not sold prior to the changes, but even the plat they spent buying the rares, has again not drained but been transfered.</p><p>Beating a dead horse here I know but isn't the bottom line for all these changes, the basic player complaint (some call whine) that changes have caused wasted time spent organizing their play time based on one "ruleset" and now the rules are changing?</p><p>Unfortunately, (or in the case of the nimble player crafter, sometimes fortunately :smileytongue:  ) the rules in this game change very very frequently.</p>

[Astery]

make it so that when someone equips two INT imbued rings instead of 22 + 22 = 44, they will face the cap around say 30 max boost.that way if you really need that extra INT you can still use two rings, but the added benefints wont be better than fabled gear.personally i would go for INT and STA just to make sure i'm not getting capped while soloing, and get max INT in team...<p>Message Edited by Astery on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:43 PM</span></p>

[Krooner]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Astery wrote:make it so that when someone equips two INT imbued rings instead of 18 + 18 = 36, they will face the cap around say 25 max boost.that way if you really need that extra INT you can still use two rings, but the added benefints wont be better than fabled gear.personally i would go for INT and STA just to make sure i'm not getting capped while soloing, and get max INT in team...<hr></blockquote><p>Its even easier than that.  Establish a max point cap per item per tier.</p><p>Say for T6 make it 20.</p><p>That could be.</p><p>T6 non rare unimbued 10</p><p>T6 non rare imbued 13</p><p>T6 rare non imbued 17</p><p>T6 rare imbued 20</p><p>Make sure that the lowest fabled T6 int stat based ring is 22.</p><p>I Mean really... Its that simple.</p><p>The rings other stats and resists are fine where they are.</p><p>DEVS you said you did not establish a point system for rings.</p><p>Which is simpler for you to impliment.</p><p>a.) change the way the rings work in game by adding procs</p><p>b.) use the scale I outlined above.</p><p> </p><p>:smileywink:</p><p> </p>

[Zis]

<div>which explains exactly why they have chosen the proc route ....</div><div>because doing something the simpler way would be unthinkable.</div>

[Krooner]

<div></div><div></div><div>Yeah I hear you... But that being said. Wouldnt the scale system I suggested take care of all the problems.</div><div>It would give a predictable scale for any tier.</div><div>It would make sure crafted rings have value.</div><div>It would allow designers to scale Raid loot above crafted and keep a nice value system on fabled loot.</div><div> </div><div>For those about to say... well Stats would be crazy come T10  Yeah well they are going to anyway.</div><div>I would like to see new imbues for T8</div><div>Allow jewlers to include 2 types of imbues to do as the devs hinted at in T7</div><div> </div><div>T8 STR imbued rare ring.  Blaze of str.  +30 to STR and + to what ever else.</div><div>Use a uncommon creature dropped item.   Say like a drakota scale.  It would add haste proc effect.</div><div> </div><div>Imbued effects for stats should be maintained</div><div>Other effects should be off procs.</div><div> </div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Warbird1 on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:15 AM</span></p>