Agro changes

[Jal]

Just a quick note regarding the recent agro changes.The main issue now is that higher level group members do not know which mobs will agro the lower members in their group, this causes issues where they run on and the lower member starts getting alot of agro. The change itself is fine but there needs to be a notification to higher groupmembers as to which mobs will draw agro, either set the entire groups agro to the lowest member or just give the higher members the red outline around the names of creatures their group will agro.Theres nothing worse than running off ahead without thinking and suddenly the person you're helping is dead due to 6 mobs attacking them.

[redsma]

<div></div>hmm perhaps the lower lvl should just tell the higher lvl to stay closer. i mean if he is really there to help then it shouldnt be a problem for him to run behind the lower lvl. or perhaps the lower lvl should know that everything will aggro them and forewarn the higher lvl. or maybe the higher lvl who has probably run thru the dungeon or area countless times should know what will aggro the lower lvl player. lets be a little more proactive in our gaming and stop expecting things to be done for us, nothing wrong with a little group communication before or during your run.

[ironman2000]

<div></div><div>Can't always count on that anyway.  Higher level tank with a lower level caster, by the time the tank turns around the caster could be dead, depending on the zone.  So if the tank knows what will be aggroing on the caster, even if its grey, he can do something about it. I ran thru Sol's Eye and we had a level 60 in the group, he kept moving but the higher end stuff was aggroing the lower levels in our group, I stayed near the back to intercede, but if its a duo sometimes this won't work.  Like the OP said, if we know what will be aggroing on our lower level friends, we can attack things before they can "Jump" the people we are grouped with.  Even if it was simply to make the name red or something, like if it was aggro, I always mouse over things as I move and would see this and stop to kill the creature before it got out of hand.</div>

[Kaknya]

 always the possibility of everyone in the group mentoring your lowest lvl group mate? comon practice for some of the groups ive been in on test..<div></div>

[masterche]

You know how aggro mobs have the red borders around the name.why not make another border lets say blue, yellow or orange.. or somethingif the mob will aggro a group member, but not you.(if it aggros both you and the group member, then it stays red)This would be alot easier, i guess.PS this idea took me like 10seconds to think up.. so i didnt think it fully through and yes theres probably something wrong with it<div></div>

[Jal]

<blockquote><hr>mastercheft wrote:You know how aggro mobs have the red borders around the name.why not make another border lets say blue, yellow or orange.. or somethingif the mob will aggro a group member, but not you.(if it aggros both you and the group member, then it stays red)This would be alot easier, i guess.PS this idea took me like 10seconds to think up.. so i didnt think it fully through and yes theres probably something wrong with it<div></div><hr></blockquote>the red outline is what you see if a grey mob will agro you so it makes sense to either make it apply to all the group or just allow the higher ups to see it.Either way you'll have to fight but at least let everyone see what needs to be fought.

[ganng]

<div></div>lead runner just needs to know what level the lowest member is and subtract 10 then you know what will agro.  Only thing I hate in this system are the invisi mobs that pop and eat your low-b casters before you even know what happened.

[KBern]

<div></div><p>Amazing idea here!</p><p>Have your low level buddy pay attention...and...gasp....communicate to you that there are agro mobs ahead.</p><p>Brilliant!</p>

[Femur]

<div></div><p>Just a suggestion on how to deal with the issue in the meantime. </p><p>Have you're lowest member or even more than one of them create a macro that will say something to the effect of "aggro mob" in group chat or whatnot.  No need to get fancy with the need to select anything in order to say exactly what will be aggro but just enough instant communication to let the higher level player know that they need to hold up and take care of business.</p><p>Of course that's no substitute for a seemingly simple method like having aggro be indicated by a red outline on gray mobs.</p><p>Oh well, take it or leave it, just a suggestion for the meantime.</p>

[Outkast1980]

<div>aggro changes are not OK, what needs to be done, is  going back to the original way. nothing aggro's that is SIX lvls less then you. and yes you can carry people . that is the dumbest thing I heard , no a mob RATIONALLY wouldnt attack anything higher lvl, so if that higher lvl is with a LOWER lvl, then the mobs should still see the same thing, as "i wouldnt win this fight , I wont attack" .  Think of it like this , do you go 1 or 2 tiers below your lvl and attack things for NO REASON(besides quest updates maybe) NO. its pointless , if a 60 wizard and a 40 wizard are grouped  no way a  lvl  31 mob should aggro, that is just DUMB. sorry.</div><div>             </div>

[Outkast1980]

<div>when they made it 10 lvls lower , that was dumb to. I dont get crap XP from even a triple arrow mob that is 10 lvls less then me, and I can solo, and even if I couldnt the logic is still flawed. Don't tell me to pay attention, or that is how the game SHOULD BE. the game should not be about having to fight stupid mobs every two seconds. </div><div> </div><div>Anything that is worth any GOOD XP, should aggro you, something that gives you nearly NONE, should not attack, there is a reason it doesnt give you crap XP, cause you should be able to handle it no problem, that being said, why should it get in the way ive me harvesting, or me helping a buddy get safely across a zone without having to go cross the whole zone , and baby get them across.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[EtoilePirate]

Ran into this yesterday as a 46/56 duo in Cazic-Thule.Eventually understood that things that conned grey to both of us were aggro to him.  Things that conned low green to me were aggro to him (but not me).  Things that conned high green to me and up were properly aggro.I mean, once we got used to it -- yeah, sure, it was fine.  But very weird to get used to, I agree.<div></div>

[valkyrja]

I made essentially the same post in the gameplay forum.I think the easiest answer is to have a glow that indicates this mob will attack someone in your group. Yes, communication is the key, but to be honest in pick-up groups, sometimes that is hard to get. I'm cool with the changes, just make it easier for groups to know what to expect aggro from.  Other option would be to show an average con color for the mob when grouped.  For instance, a 40 mob cons green to a lvl50 player, and grey to a lvl 60 player.  An average of these 2 is 55 so the mob would grey.  However, if the mob were 46 it would be aggro to the whole group.<div></div>

[Outkast1980]

<div>No, It is not cool to have anything aggro your group you cant ge XP for. And expecting to mentor so you get XP ? Oh give me a break. Yeah , you do this on a quest here and there, when it's necessary. But for everyone to be expected to mentor repeatedly through a zone , just to get XP for SOMEONE in a zone. That's a crock. The conning system went from just fine , to STUPID, to completely idiotic.</div><div> </div><div>Even if I know a lvl 38 would attack a lvl 48 in my group(that isnt a quest mob) I would have no desire to tank it (54 monk) ; of course I would, but let me tell you it's a pain in the [Removed for Content] to have to take an extra 30 mins fighting grey mobs to get to the QUEST mobs we are after. All cause somehow people feel that there is logic that a low lvl attacks the lowest member in a group, even when grouped with say 5 people that grey that mob out? come on now. Zero logic, no rational, any arguement standing up for this is nothing but a SOE drone. I am getting sick and tired of SOE changing this game 50 times a [Removed for Content] month. How the heck can you get used to a god [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing when all you do is update and change it 2 weeks later? Seriously, this game has been noobafied beyond belief. You have made the fact that people that have bought adept 3's and masters of low lvl quality NEARLY POINTLESS when they get to end game, cause when they mentor they have no use. Yeah yeah, we keep our buffs, and dont have to change spells, that shoulda been there a long time ago. Seriously you have to make this game like WoW . Simplistic.</div><div> Why am I still playing? Seriously? Friends and guildmates is about it. Cause this game offers little challenge , and wants to hand everything to you now.</div><div> </div><div> 1.) Mobs easier.</div><div> 2.) quest NPC's  slapped right in front of your face now .</div><div> 3.)Masters drop a dime a dozen now(thanks for screwing the sage class the last few months as far as adept 3's go, and no I dont have a sage, but thats the truth.)</div><div> 4.)making mounts like carpets and spirit steeds so cheap that almost everyone has one , and now everyone is flooded with mounts.   To top it off you upped the speed haste of the quest carpet!?!!? So really, is the money worth the bought one? BLEH, NO!. I think it's a slap in the face to everyone that spent the 60 pp saving up for that stuff before.</div><div> 5.) Heritage Quests- I will keep this nice and simple for you. When I started playing before, you couldnt do 4-6 a day? now I can do at least that on a average day. Thanks SoE for making things easier for EVERYONE, and making sure that you trivialize everything.</div><div> 6.)tradeskilling-with what has already been done, and what is happening next update , you have officially smacked every crafter that got to 50-60 in the face, and said look what we are doing, we are gonna make things CAKE now for everyone.</div><div> 7.)Money- I gain/spend(Run a guild and literally spend and about 20pp a week on its members) doing what? basically nothing. Then I hear everyone say how do you make money? OMG , seriously people, making money in this game is like learning how to tie your shoes. If you can't figure it out on your own, go play The Sims.</div><div> </div><div>/end rant</div>

[Magu]

There's a large thread on this in gameplay discussion already.<div></div>

[Passionprince]

<div></div>Honestly really sick of the changes myself it gets really old after awhile. Should be the same for everyone from the time it comes out till the last expansion.  Tradeskilling is going to be made easier GREAT...but not for those who roughed it out and got to 60 the hard way.  I would like to know when I get to 60 that I got there the same way those who are 60 now did.  I dont mind things being hard if it was all easy who would still be playing and what would be the point?  As far as grey mobs conning the lower level you are trying to help I think is the most idiotic thing they have done thus far. Hey lets make it to where people cant get help...I help lower levels all the time that cant find a group that wants to kill what they need...I want to get there mentor and get it done not take 5 hours trying to get there. 

[valkyrja]

My biggest concern about this is that groups will start being more selective as to who they allow in.  I know that I will be less likely to invite players who are more than 2-3 levels outside of my level.<div></div>

[KBern]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Outkast1980 wrote:<div>No, It is not cool to have anything aggro your group you cant ge XP for. And expecting to mentor so you get XP ? Oh give me a break. Yeah , you do this on a quest here and there, when it's necessary. But for everyone to be expected to mentor repeatedly through a zone , just to get XP for SOMEONE in a zone. That's a crock. The conning system went from just fine , to STUPID, to completely idiotic.</div><div> </div><div>Even if I know a lvl 38 would attack a lvl 48 in my group(that isnt a quest mob) I would have no desire to tank it (54 monk) ; of course I would, but let me tell you it's a pain in the [Removed for Content] to have to take an extra 30 mins fighting grey mobs to get to the QUEST mobs we are after. All cause somehow people feel that there is logic that a low lvl attacks the lowest member in a group, even when grouped with say 5 people that grey that mob out? come on now. Zero logic, no rational, any arguement standing up for this is nothing but a SOE drone. I am getting sick and tired of SOE changing this game 50 times a [Removed for Content] month. How the heck can you get used to a god [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing when all you do is update and change it 2 weeks later? Seriously, this game has been noobafied beyond belief. You have made the fact that people that have bought adept 3's and masters of low lvl quality NEARLY POINTLESS when they get to end game, cause when they mentor they have no use. Yeah yeah, we keep our buffs, and dont have to change spells, that shoulda been there a long time ago. Seriously you have to make this game like WoW . Simplistic.</div><div> Why am I still playing? Seriously? Friends and guildmates is about it. Cause this game offers little challenge , and wants to hand everything to you now.</div><div> </div><div> 1.) Mobs easier.</div><div> 2.) quest NPC's  slapped right in front of your face now .</div><div> 3.)Masters drop a dime a dozen now(thanks for screwing the sage class the last few months as far as adept 3's go, and no I dont have a sage, but thats the truth.)</div><div> 4.)making mounts like carpets and spirit steeds so cheap that almost everyone has one , and now everyone is flooded with mounts.   To top it off you upped the speed haste of the quest carpet!?!!? So really, is the money worth the bought one? BLEH, NO!. I think it's a slap in the face to everyone that spent the 60 pp saving up for that stuff before.</div><div> 5.) Heritage Quests- I will keep this nice and simple for you. When I started playing before, you couldnt do 4-6 a day? now I can do at least that on a average day. Thanks SoE for making things easier for EVERYONE, and making sure that you trivialize everything.</div><div> 6.)tradeskilling-with what has already been done, and what is happening next update , you have officially smacked every crafter that got to 50-60 in the face, and said look what we are doing, we are gonna make things CAKE now for everyone.</div><div> 7.)Money- I gain/spend(Run a guild and literally spend and about 20pp a week on its members) doing what? basically nothing. Then I hear everyone say how do you make money? OMG , seriously people, making money in this game is like learning how to tie your shoes. If you can't figure it out on your own, go play The Sims.</div><div> </div><div>/end rant</div><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah you make so much sense bro.</p><p>Make this aspect of the game easier for you because it is too difficult but you hate the game because it is too easy.</p><p>Uh huh.</p>

[Outkast1980]

<div>To difficult for me?</div><div> </div><div>where is killing grey mobs SENSELESSLY difficult? hmm? thats what I would like to know ? there is a difference between tedious/annoying and DIFFICULT. </div><div> </div><div>Think before you post your BS again</div>

[Yask]

<div></div><p>Agreed with the OP.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Magu]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Outkast1980 wrote:<div>To difficult for me?</div><div> </div><div>where is killing grey mobs SENSELESSLY difficult? hmm? thats what I would like to know ? there is a difference between tedious/annoying and DIFFICULT. </div><div> </div><div>Think before you post your BS again</div><hr></blockquote>Tons and tons of barely grey ^^^ heroics can indeed be difficult to kill.</span></div>

[Outkast1980]

<div></div>When they are grey, you would have to continue to pull tons, and be that stupid to do so. second of all,even then its usually not difficult. i can take probably a dozen 40 ^^^ casters at a time at 54.. so not liking your arguement here.

[Magu]

But thats the thing. With these changes, theres no "pulling" - you walk by them and they aggro the weakest group member.As for taking them easily, a room full of 25^^^ mobs can kill a 60 caster if they can't kill them quick enough.Those 5 point hits add up after a while.<div></div>

[Outkast1980]

<div>again you proved my point. they died not out of difficulty they died out of stupidity  of the game, of having to fight a mob they shouldnt have had to in the first place. and no there is no difficulty in it. eventually people will learn exactly what to pull( i already have , not tough) and u just work your way through , the whole time saying, this is BS, as is the rest of the group. period.</div><div> </div><div>sorry no arguement you have justifies this change or or any of the others.</div>

[Magu]

I think we had a misunderstanding - I am AGAINST this change, but one of your posts made it sound like you were laughing at the idea of greys being difficult, when indeed they can be.<div></div>

[Raster]

<div>My question is WHY??</div><div>To make the game harder? easer?  Doubtful</div><div>They were next on the list of things to change, fix or Nerf?  Probibly not.</div><div>Randomly picked from a hat?  Maybe.</div><div>Prevent farmers from exploiting the grouping code?  Ding! Ding! I think we have have a winner!</div><div> </div><div>Suggestion:  Keep it as it (cause I know it will not change it back now that it's live) but allow those within acceptable grouping levels to not see the aggro.</div>

[Timaarit]

Well if this is a problem, maybe that group should move to a zone where mobs are not grey to the average level of that group.Second option is to mentor and fight past every aggro mob. You have to fight anyway since those will agro the lowest level group members if they are not grey to them.<div></div>

[Magu]

Mentoring is not an option, as the one mentoring then only gets a small fraction of the normal XP.<div></div>

[Timaarit]

Well when fighting grey mobs that aggro the low level characters, NO ONE will get xp.<div></div>

[Magu]

Better 5% of mobs with no XP then 100% of mobs at 15% XP.<div></div>

[Timaarit]

Hmm, now I must ask you that do you even know how current aggro rules work?Lets take someone at lvl 30 grouping with someone lvl 60. Now if something is aggro to lvl 30 soloing, they will be aggro to lvl 30 grouping with lvl 60. So mentoring or no mentoring, they will have to fight every single mob that is aggro to lvl 30.This means that your 5% and 100% are based on misinformation. It will be that 100% in any case.<div></div>

[Outkast1980]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Timaarit wrote:Hmm, now I must ask you that do you even know how current aggro rules work?Lets take someone at lvl 30 grouping with someone lvl 60. Now if something is aggro to lvl 30 soloing, they will be aggro to lvl 30 grouping with lvl 60. So mentoring or no mentoring, they will have to fight every single mob that is aggro to lvl 30.This means that your 5% and 100% are based on misinformation. It will be that 100% in any case.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Mentoring is not an option dont be a "drone" please.</p><p>People should NOT be forced to MENTOR, to get color/xp. That seriously is the dumbest thing I have EVER heard.  Let me explain to you how it works son,</p><p>LvL 30 as you said , is with a lvl 60, in say.. SH, The they arent farming he is just helping out his friend and showing him a quest update/mob is. Instead of being able to go down and show him where it is, instead of just taking him down there, he needs to mentor down and fight all the way down there to do it? or to stay unmentored and hug his friend the entire way there and pull everything in site? Mentoring needlessly and being forced is unfair/and dumb. Having to hold your groupmates hands isnt fun either. Anyhow who agrees with this change , needs to really start playing the game, or play a tank class LOL =)</p><p>(doesnt mean come here and post your a 60 tank ,lol, was a joke, for you dronies)</p>

[Pashta]

<div></div><p> This change made me so mad that I sent /feedback with swearing in it.  My husband and I died 3 times trying to do a stupid quest together, because he is 5 levels lower than I am and has different factions. </p><p> <font color="#cc00ff"><font size="4">SOE <u>PLEASE</u></font> put some notification like a purple border around the names of mobs aggro to groupmembers if you want to keep this change.</font></p>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Outkast1980 wrote:<p>Mentoring is not an option dont be a "drone" please.</p><p>People should NOT be forced to MENTOR, to get color/xp. That seriously is the dumbest thing I have EVER heard.  Let me explain to you how it works son,</p><p>LvL 30 as you said , is with a lvl 60, in say.. SH, The they arent farming he is just helping out his friend and showing him a quest update/mob is. Instead of being able to go down and show him where it is, instead of just taking him down there, he needs to mentor down and fight all the way down there to do it? or to stay unmentored and hug his friend the entire way there and pull everything in site? Mentoring needlessly and being forced is unfair/and dumb. Having to hold your groupmates hands isnt fun either. Anyhow who agrees with this change , needs to really start playing the game, or play a tank class LOL =)</p><p>(doesnt mean come here and post your a 60 tank ,lol, was a joke, for you dronies)</p><hr></blockquote>Actually I am lvl 60 tank.And people are not forced to mentor. It is your choice whether you want to kill anything that adds to the lower levels or see yourself what is aggro and what is not.Would it be better if anything that is aggro to one in group, is aggro to all regardless of level? Still no XP to anyone unless the high level mentors.Easiest way is just to get someone with group invis.</span><div></div>

[Sir Blig]

<div>Well the changes are good and bad, and buggy</div><div> </div><div>I died too many times and all I wanted to do was go down Sol to talk to Nagy</div><div> </div><div>Problem is they have put the number of see-invis mobs through the roof and no-one had group invis, was a nice bonfire going fuelled only by totems. Not only that there were some.</div><div> </div><div>We were a group of one 60 and three 51-54's</div><div> </div><div>All were invis and initially things wee going well, until the golems were all the 50's died, the 60 was overwhelmed so ran them off, upon returning there were a number of green non agro mobs, green because of group level being pulled down, for no reason one of the non agro mobs started going for the 60 non of the others had been rezed they were very dead, within a minute and with no assistance all surrounding were climbing in the 60, not one had the agro outline and not one had been hit to cause it to attack.</div><div>Was very odd and a little funny</div><div> </div><div>I would say if the group is legit then agro should be based on the group level, having a grey mob cringing as a 60 walks past and then attack a party member while still cringing is not very cool.</div><div> </div><div>But if the group is invalid, like a 60 dragging a 30 though a zone, well in nature the weak are picked off and a 30 in a t5 or t6 zone is easy prey any self respecting mob would be flogged by his master if he allowed such a week opponent to pass. Would be nice if any low toons that were no-reward due to being too low for the group still agro'ed</div><div> </div><div>Would be nice if the rest of the party got some indication that a mod is agro to someone in the group.Otherwise the change brings being a bit more careful back to the game and the low person keeping an eye out for agro and warning the others.</div>

[KBern]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Outkast1980 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Timaarit wrote:Hmm, now I must ask you that do you even know how current aggro rules work?Lets take someone at lvl 30 grouping with someone lvl 60. Now if something is aggro to lvl 30 soloing, they will be aggro to lvl 30 grouping with lvl 60. So mentoring or no mentoring, they will have to fight every single mob that is aggro to lvl 30.This means that your 5% and 100% are based on misinformation. It will be that 100% in any case.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Mentoring is not an option dont be a "drone" please.</p><p>People should NOT be forced to MENTOR, to get color/xp. That seriously is the dumbest thing I have EVER heard.  Let me explain to you how it works son,</p><p>LvL 30 as you said , is with a lvl 60, in say.. SH, The they arent farming he is just helping out his friend and showing him a quest update/mob is. Instead of being able to go down and show him where it is, instead of just taking him down there, he needs to mentor down and fight all the way down there to do it? or to stay unmentored and hug his friend the entire way there and pull everything in site? Mentoring needlessly and being forced is unfair/and dumb. Having to hold your groupmates hands isnt fun either. Anyhow who agrees with this change , needs to really start playing the game, or play a tank class LOL =)</p><p>(doesnt mean come here and post your a 60 tank ,lol, was a joke, for you dronies)</p><hr></blockquote><p>Maybe this was done to stop just that.</p><p>Ever think of that?  All the people exploiting the new mechanics to farm with the lvl 30-60 combos.</p><p>It sure as heck make their lives much more difficult.</p><p>Maybe mentor down and show your friends how to get down to the spots as they are supposed to...fight or stealth instead of trying to [Removed for Content] them down the easy way.</p><p>I dont feel sorry for the people in the 30-60 scenarios..sorry....get over it.</p><p>We had a group of alts running. lvl 53, 51, 51, 51, and 39.  The 53 mentored to 51 so the 39 could get exp and we roamed around as a group, making sure we stayed together, and actually stayed aware of his agro.</p><p>Imagine, having to pay attention and not just grey out a zone and run around trivializing content.</p>

[zauberan]

I agree with kbern 100% ...<div></div>

[Outkast1980]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>KBern wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Outkast1980 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Timaarit wrote:Hmm, now I must ask you that do you even know how current aggro rules work?Lets take someone at lvl 30 grouping with someone lvl 60. Now if something is aggro to lvl 30 soloing, they will be aggro to lvl 30 grouping with lvl 60. So mentoring or no mentoring, they will have to fight every single mob that is aggro to lvl 30.This means that your 5% and 100% are based on misinformation. It will be that 100% in any case.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Mentoring is not an option dont be a "drone" please.</p><p>People should NOT be forced to MENTOR, to get color/xp. That seriously is the dumbest thing I have EVER heard.  Let me explain to you how it works son,</p><p>LvL 30 as you said , is with a lvl 60, in say.. SH, The they arent farming he is just helping out his friend and showing him a quest update/mob is. Instead of being able to go down and show him where it is, instead of just taking him down there, he needs to mentor down and fight all the way down there to do it? or to stay unmentored and hug his friend the entire way there and pull everything in site? Mentoring needlessly and being forced is unfair/and dumb. Having to hold your groupmates hands isnt fun either. Anyhow who agrees with this change , needs to really start playing the game, or play a tank class LOL =)</p><p>(doesnt mean come here and post your a 60 tank ,lol, was a joke, for you dronies)</p><hr></blockquote><p>Maybe this was done to stop just that.</p><p>Ever think of that?  All the people exploiting the new mechanics to farm with the lvl 30-60 combos.</p><p>It sure as heck make their lives much more difficult.</p><p>Maybe mentor down and show your friends how to get down to the spots as they are supposed to...fight or stealth instead of trying to [Removed for Content] them down the easy way.</p><p>I dont feel sorry for the people in the 30-60 scenarios..sorry....get over it.</p><p>We had a group of alts running. lvl 53, 51, 51, 51, and 39.  The 53 mentored to 51 so the 39 could get exp and we roamed around as a group, making sure we stayed together, and actually stayed aware of his agro.</p><p>Imagine, having to pay attention and not just grey out a zone and run around trivializing content.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I don't see how for 1 second it makes things more difficult,  the level 60 pulls everything. calls for help on each mob, slowly they drop off, then when they get to location, he kills whats what remaining.</p><p>point? Your not stopping farming that way. Only way to stop farming is lower the drop rate.</p><p> </p><p>Ever think of that, Home skillet?</p><p>Message Edited by Outkast1980 on <span class="date_text">02-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:46 AM</span></p>

[KBern]

<div></div><p>So then your farming/PLing/Bypassing content wont be stopped, it will just take you longer.</p><p>Understand now Champ? (see I can add little names too...)</p><p>Learn to play properly or dont play at all.</p><p>It is not too hard...or you can keep crying on here.</p>

[Raster]

<div></div><p></p><hr> Learn to play properly or dont play at all.<p> Pykyor Poyzun</p><hr><p> </p><p>How many times do we have to "learn" to play properly?</p>

[KBern]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Monsterblitz wrote:<div></div><p></p><hr> Learn to play properly or dont play at all.<p> Pykyor Poyzun</p><hr><p> </p><p>How many times do we have to "learn" to play properly?</p><p></p><p></p><hr><p>I learned to play once and am still doing fine...how bout you?</p><p>If not, you may need to work on awareness, teamwork, and communication.  It will come to you soon enough.</p><p></p></blockquote>

[Outkast1980]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>KBern wrote:<div></div><p>So then your farming/PLing/Bypassing content wont be stopped, it will just take you longer.</p><p>Understand now Champ? (see I can add little names too...)</p><p>Learn to play properly or dont play at all.</p><p>It is not too hard...or you can keep crying on here.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah, your right, I am a champ.  First off, I play quite proper, thank you very much. I can also say that I am sure I play better then you . Next off, how am I crying, I am standing I am not a little guilliable little sony drone like you., I realize when something is completely SIMPLISTIC and generally DUMB. So , that is why I see you have no issues with it. because you my friend fit the bill  as well.</p><p>1.) I don't "power-level" off anyone. Thanks.  I know how to lvl fast the "proper" way. Need a lession? I have no probably taking you to school, but please keep up, sunshine.</p><p>2.)Farming- Would love to know how you came up with that assumption, Sherlock.</p><p>3.) Bypassing- Only time you will see me use that is.. NOW. When I am helping a friend achieve a quest update of some sort.</p><p> </p><p>Please my son, stop while your already not ahead.</p>

[KBern]

<div></div><p>Still crying?</p>

[Outkast1980]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>KBern wrote:<div></div><p>Still crying?</p><hr></blockquote><p>Sound of defeat-</p><p>Game , Set , Match</p>

[Amytheyst]

<div><span>Actually, it is- like it or not the changes ARE going in.<blockquote><hr>Outkast1980 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>KBern wrote:<div></div><p>Still crying?</p><hr></blockquote><p>Sound of defeat-</p><p>Game , Set , Match</p><hr></blockquote></span></div>

[Flor]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>KBern wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Outkast1980 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Timaarit wrote:Hmm, now I must ask you that do you even know how current aggro rules work?Lets take someone at lvl 30 grouping with someone lvl 60. Now if something is aggro to lvl 30 soloing, they will be aggro to lvl 30 grouping with lvl 60. So mentoring or no mentoring, they will have to fight every single mob that is aggro to lvl 30.This means that your 5% and 100% are based on misinformation. It will be that 100% in any case.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Mentoring is not an option dont be a "drone" please.</p><p>People should NOT be forced to MENTOR, to get color/xp. That seriously is the dumbest thing I have EVER heard.  Let me explain to you how it works son,</p><p>LvL 30 as you said , is with a lvl 60, in say.. SH, The they arent farming he is just helping out his friend and showing him a quest update/mob is. Instead of being able to go down and show him where it is, instead of just taking him down there, he needs to mentor down and fight all the way down there to do it? or to stay unmentored and hug his friend the entire way there and pull everything in site? Mentoring needlessly and being forced is unfair/and dumb. Having to hold your groupmates hands isnt fun either. Anyhow who agrees with this change , needs to really start playing the game, or play a tank class LOL =)</p><p>(doesnt mean come here and post your a 60 tank ,lol, was a joke, for you dronies)</p><hr></blockquote><p>Maybe this was done to stop just that.</p><p>Ever think of that?  All the people exploiting the new mechanics to farm with the lvl 30-60 combos.</p><p>It sure as heck make their lives much more difficult.</p><p>Maybe mentor down and show your friends how to get down to the spots as they are supposed to...fight or stealth instead of trying to [Removed for Content] them down the easy way.</p><p>I dont feel sorry for the people in the 30-60 scenarios..sorry....get over it.</p><p>We had a group of alts running. lvl 53, 51, 51, 51, and 39.  The 53 mentored to 51 so the 39 could get exp and we roamed around as a group, making sure we stayed together, and actually stayed aware of his agro.</p><p>Imagine, having to pay attention and not just grey out a zone and run around trivializing content.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I agree with you KBern.  But many don't agree and are quite angry at SOE for making this change.  It does takes some getting used to and perhaps SOE will tweak it a little bit.  Perhaps with "legit" groups, not having these new agro changes apply as one suggested on this thread.  I think the groups that SOE is trying to pinpoint is that level 20/60, 30/60 etc combo  trivialzing content.  </p><p>I was debating this very issue on another thread and finally realized that there is no reasoning with people on this issue.  Yes, this change has impacted the "legit" groups who are fighting their way in and now have to worry about agro at all levels.  It does suck that the actions of a few (the high level/low level combo trivialzing content) has had such a game impact to people all around. </p><p>And a caveat.  I've been accused on another thread of hating high levels helping low levels.  Not true.  My chief complaint has always been the farming issue with said high level/low level people.  Standing in one place farming for hours on end where the only purpose is to scarf up the loot from named chest drops.  Not against farming in general.  Just the 20/60 combo for example.  I'm not sure if this is what SOE intended in their game design.</p>

[Outkast1980]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Floria wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>KBern wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Outkast1980 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Timaarit wrote:Hmm, now I must ask you that do you even know how current aggro rules work?Lets take someone at lvl 30 grouping with someone lvl 60. Now if something is aggro to lvl 30 soloing, they will be aggro to lvl 30 grouping with lvl 60. So mentoring or no mentoring, they will have to fight every single mob that is aggro to lvl 30.This means that your 5% and 100% are based on misinformation. It will be that 100% in any case.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Mentoring is not an option dont be a "drone" please.</p><p>People should NOT be forced to MENTOR, to get color/xp. That seriously is the dumbest thing I have EVER heard.  Let me explain to you how it works son,</p><p>LvL 30 as you said , is with a lvl 60, in say.. SH, The they arent farming he is just helping out his friend and showing him a quest update/mob is. Instead of being able to go down and show him where it is, instead of just taking him down there, he needs to mentor down and fight all the way down there to do it? or to stay unmentored and hug his friend the entire way there and pull everything in site? Mentoring needlessly and being forced is unfair/and dumb. Having to hold your groupmates hands isnt fun either. Anyhow who agrees with this change , needs to really start playing the game, or play a tank class LOL =)</p><p>(doesnt mean come here and post your a 60 tank ,lol, was a joke, for you dronies)</p><hr></blockquote><p>Maybe this was done to stop just that.</p><p>Ever think of that?  All the people exploiting the new mechanics to farm with the lvl 30-60 combos.</p><p>It sure as heck make their lives much more difficult.</p><p>Maybe mentor down and show your friends how to get down to the spots as they are supposed to...fight or stealth instead of trying to [Removed for Content] them down the easy way.</p><p>I dont feel sorry for the people in the 30-60 scenarios..sorry....get over it.</p><p>We had a group of alts running. lvl 53, 51, 51, 51, and 39.  The 53 mentored to 51 so the 39 could get exp and we roamed around as a group, making sure we stayed together, and actually stayed aware of his agro.</p><p>Imagine, having to pay attention and not just grey out a zone and run around trivializing content.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I agree with you KBern.  But many don't agree and are quite angry at SOE for making this change.  It does takes some getting used to and perhaps SOE will tweak it a little bit.  Perhaps with "legit" groups, not having these new agro changes apply as one suggested on this thread.  I think the groups that SOE is trying to pinpoint is that level 20/60, 30/60 etc combo  trivialzing content.  </p><p>I was debating this very issue on another thread and finally realized that there is no reasoning with people on this issue.  Yes, this change has impacted the "legit" groups who are fighting their way in and now have to worry about agro at all levels.  It does suck that the actions of a few (the high level/low level combo trivialzing content) has had such a game impact to people all around. </p><p>And a caveat.  I've been accused on another thread of hating high levels helping low levels.  Not true.  My chief complaint has always been the farming issue with said high level/low level people.  Standing in one place farming for hours on end where the only purpose is to scarf up the loot from named chest drops.  Not against farming in general.  Just the 20/60 combo for example.  I'm not sure if this is what SOE intended in their game design.</p><hr></blockquote><p> My problem is with you then now, Floria.</p><p> </p><p>1.) Farming does not affect you. Do not tell me how them farming effects you. It doesnt.</p><p>Yes does the all the masters hurt the economy? YOUR DANG RIGHT IT DOES. Makes everything cheaper and not worth a god dern thing. Do I blame the farmers? For putting in what SOE intended. Don't tell me they didn't know. Everyone knew for the past 4 and half months, that CT and RE were the places to go. Then when it got REAL bad, I said ok they are gonna nerf this crap now. What did SOE DO? Added Varsoons to the list. As of LU19 , add SOL EYE to the list.</p><p>Don't blame the Farmer, blame the people that are making this game and its content so trivial and simplistic. SOE</p><p>I don't care if encounters are locked or not. Let me clarify that now. Matters NOTHING to me. Affects me in no way, and shouldn't affect anyone in anyway. (Including farmers)</p><p>I do however care that they have mobs attacking your group when they shouldn't be.</p><p>Sorry, that is not a realistic fix to the problem of farming. It will not deter, it will not slow it down.</p><p>Think it has? Go to Runnyeye,RoV,CT,and Sol Eye, Look at those zones.  </p><p>I promise you have done NOTHING to slow down any of them.</p><p>Only real fix? Tell SOE, to fix the dang LOTTO DROP RATE.</p><p>How hard is that for any of you to understand?</p><p>That is EASY for them to do.  Trust me it was easy enough for them to raise the master drop rate, its just as it to slow it back down. Listen closely...</p><p>THEY DONT WANT TO.</p><p>This problem has a EASY EASY EASY FIX. they choose to pretend like they are doing things, but they arent.</p><p>Go ahead, be the SOE dronies, and  buy into this crap. I for one see right through it.</p><p>Message Edited by Outkast1980 on <span class="date_text">02-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:30 PM</span></p>

[Flor]

<div></div><p>Well if you want to label me a SOE "dronie" go ahead.  Let's see, on another thread anyone who disagrees is labeled a crybaby and less intelligent.  Have to love generalizations.  What you don't get is that I'm not against farming in general.  I have a problem with two specifc types of farming:</p><p>(1  The real gold farmers who farm for real world profit.  Before you nitpick, I am talking about businesses who operate rooms of computers with people on those computers working 24 x 7.  To farm and make a profit.  I don't like them, they are illegal and against the terms of service?  Am I wrong here?  Do you endorse for profit gold farming?  I sure don't and I think that my fellow players probably have similar feelings.  People get pretty aggravated when they see true "for profit" gold farmers.  The farmers in WoW were out of control and directly impacted my enjoyment of the game. </p><p>(2 Second type of farming is the high level/low level team going in a dungeon trivilizing content with sole intent to farm or trivialize quests.  As Moorguard stated, they have made these changes to crack down on this specific type of farming.  Has it impacted my gaming?  Yes a little.  Seeing the <u><strong><em>high leve/low level duo</em> </strong></u>camping mobs for sole purpose of obtaining books and monopolizing a spot.  I've had a pleasure of running into some pretty rude farmers.  A few times, our little level appropriate group for the dungeon was unable to complete quests because of non stop farming by said high level/low level combo.  Is this what SOE intended for the game? </p><p>What you don't get it that I'm not against "farming" in general.   Everyone farms.  When we harvest, when we are hoping for a rare, when we are waiting for a mob, when we want a particular item off a mob (for example, the tattered robe for the robe of the invoker quest which has never dropped. for me--sigh).  We all farm.  Do I have problems with level appropriate groups in dungeons farming?  Nope.  Never said I did.  You are making generalizations that I am against all farming and want it wiped out.  I don't.   Two particular "types" of farming rub me the wrong way.  In case you feel like generalizing, I don't hate high level people helping others.  I am not looking to wipe out farmers so I can now farm the spots.   Those accusations make me giggle a little bit.  But if that is what you want to think go for it.</p><p>Am I 100% happy with the agro changes that SOE has made?  No.  Even in level appropriate groups for the dungeon, you have to constantly watch agro now.  It has gotton much more challenging as the agro immediately goes to the lower people in the group. It is annoying and I bettca that  SOE can tweak this a bit and make some adjustments so that it is not a one size fits all solution.   I guess that I have faith in SOE and the developers a little bit more than you.</p><p>Anyway, let the flames begin.  I'm sorry that everyone is so angry about it. </p>

[Outkast1980]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Floria wrote:<div></div><p>Well if you want to label me a SOE "dronie" go ahead.  Let's see, on another thread anyone who disagrees is labeled a crybaby and less intelligent.  Have to love generalizations.  What you don't get is that I'm not against farming in general.  I have a problem with two specifc types of farming:</p><p>(1  The real gold farmers who farm for real world profit.  Before you nitpick, I am talking about businesses who operate rooms of computers with people on those computers working 24 x 7.  To farm and make a profit.  I don't like them, they are illegal and against the terms of service?  Am I wrong here?  Do you endorse for profit gold farming?  I sure don't and I think that my fellow players probably have similar feelings.  People get pretty aggravated when they see true "for profit" gold farmers.  The farmers in WoW were out of control and directly impacted my enjoyment of the game. </p><p>(2 Second type of farming is the high level/low level team going in a dungeon trivilizing content with sole intent to farm or trivialize quests.  As Moorguard stated, they have made these changes to crack down on this specific type of farming.  Has it impacted my gaming?  Yes a little.  Seeing the <u><strong><em>high leve/low level duo</em> </strong></u>camping mobs for sole purpose of obtaining books and monopolizing a spot.  I've had a pleasure of running into some pretty rude farmers.  A few times, our little level appropriate group for the dungeon was unable to complete quests because of non stop farming by said high level/low level combo.  Is this what SOE intended for the game? </p><p>What you don't get it that I'm not against "farming" in general.   Everyone farms.  When we harvest, when we are hoping for a rare, when we are waiting for a mob, when we want a particular item off a mob (for example, the tattered robe for the robe of the invoker quest which has never dropped. for me--sigh).  We all farm.  Do I have problems with level appropriate groups in dungeons farming?  Nope.  Never said I did.  You are making generalizations that I am against all farming and want it wiped out.  I don't.   Two particular "types" of farming rub me the wrong way.  In case you feel like generalizing, I don't hate high level people helping others.  I am not looking to wipe out farmers so I can now farm the spots.   Those accusations make me giggle a little bit.  But if that is what you want to think go for it.</p><p>Am I 100% happy with the agro changes that SOE has made?  No.  Even in level appropriate groups for the dungeon, you have to constantly watch agro now.  It has gotton much more challenging as the agro immediately goes to the lower people in the group. It is annoying and I bettca that  SOE can tweak this a bit and make some adjustments so that it is not a one size fits all solution.   I guess that I have faith in SOE and the developers a little bit more than you.</p><p>Anyway, let the flames begin.  I'm sorry that everyone is so angry about it. </p><hr></blockquote><p> Fun Fact for ya- The people that turn into a real life investment, those people dont farm dungeons(Well not as much as,) they harvest. Harvesting Feerrott, and zone like that are where they money is, that and power lvl'n/boxing 5 toons and selling them when they get to where they need them to be.</p><p>No, your arguement was more towards the dungeons, and no matter what goes on there, it has no affect on you. Besides it affects the market, but thats SOE's fault for basically creating a dungeons with master loot WITHOUT timers.</p><p> </p>

[Flor]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Outkast1980 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Floria wrote:<div></div><p>Well if you want to label me a SOE "dronie" go ahead.  Let's see, on another thread anyone who disagrees is labeled a crybaby and less intelligent.  Have to love generalizations.  What you don't get is that I'm not against farming in general.  I have a problem with two specifc types of farming:</p><p>(1  The real gold farmers who farm for real world profit.  Before you nitpick, I am talking about businesses who operate rooms of computers with people on those computers working 24 x 7.  To farm and make a profit.  I don't like them, they are illegal and against the terms of service?  Am I wrong here?  Do you endorse for profit gold farming?  I sure don't and I think that my fellow players probably have similar feelings.  People get pretty aggravated when they see true "for profit" gold farmers.  The farmers in WoW were out of control and directly impacted my enjoyment of the game. </p><p>(2 Second type of farming is the high level/low level team going in a dungeon trivilizing content with sole intent to farm or trivialize quests.  As Moorguard stated, they have made these changes to crack down on this specific type of farming.  Has it impacted my gaming?  Yes a little.  Seeing the <u><strong><em>high leve/low level duo</em> </strong></u>camping mobs for sole purpose of obtaining books and monopolizing a spot.  I've had a pleasure of running into some pretty rude farmers.  A few times, our little level appropriate group for the dungeon was unable to complete quests because of non stop farming by said high level/low level combo.  Is this what SOE intended for the game? </p><p>What you don't get it that I'm not against "farming" in general.   Everyone farms.  When we harvest, when we are hoping for a rare, when we are waiting for a mob, when we want a particular item off a mob (for example, the tattered robe for the robe of the invoker quest which has never dropped. for me--sigh).  We all farm.  Do I have problems with level appropriate groups in dungeons farming?  Nope.  Never said I did.  You are making generalizations that I am against all farming and want it wiped out.  I don't.   Two particular "types" of farming rub me the wrong way.  In case you feel like generalizing, I don't hate high level people helping others.  I am not looking to wipe out farmers so I can now farm the spots.   Those accusations make me giggle a little bit.  But if that is what you want to think go for it.</p><p>Am I 100% happy with the agro changes that SOE has made?  No.  Even in level appropriate groups for the dungeon, you have to constantly watch agro now.  It has gotton much more challenging as the agro immediately goes to the lower people in the group. It is annoying and I bettca that  SOE can tweak this a bit and make some adjustments so that it is not a one size fits all solution.   I guess that I have faith in SOE and the developers a little bit more than you.</p><p>Anyway, let the flames begin.  I'm sorry that everyone is so angry about it. </p><hr></blockquote><p> Fun Fact for ya- The people that turn into a real life investment, those people dont farm dungeons(Well not as much as,) they harvest. Harvesting Feerrott, and zone like that are where they money is, that and power lvl'n/boxing 5 toons and selling them when they get to where they need them to be.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Profit is profit my friend. Gold farmers operate where ever there is money to be made and however they can make money.  In WoW, gold farmers operated in instances getting loot and selling for a nice profit, harvesting rares, etc.  Killing mobs nonstop for vendor junk.  Everything adds up if it is done on a 24 x 7 basis.  My point is that I am against gold farmers (for real world profit) in general and wasn't refereing specifically to dungeons.  I was trying to clarify my distaste of particular types of farming.</font></p><p>No, your arguement was more towards the dungeons, and no matter what goes on there, it has no affect on you. Besides it affects the market, but thats SOE's fault for basically creating a dungeons with master loot WITHOUT timers.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">It has had some impact on me but I'm fairly relaxed about it.   In fact, having the dungeons so heavily camped at this point does impact everyone's play style, especially if you are trying to do a quest and the high/low level combo is there nonstop doing their thing.  My point was you can't generalize and paint someone totally against farming.  I am talking about specific scenarios that I personally don't like.  Not against farming in general because we all do it.   I agree with you about SOE and how they've implemented master loot.  </font></p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>

[Chei]

<div></div><p>This has all been very interesting and I'd hate to try and compare EQ2 to the real world but, guys, these MOBs in the dungeon are predators. If you give them a choice why would they not go for the lowest level character when you were not looking? Why should you be able to grey out MOBs just by hanging around nearby in a Dungeon. If you want to protect your lower level buddy then kill the stuff that would threaten them. Doh.</p><p>Fine, a yellow/orange/blue/green or whatever color box would be nice to show what the lowest level group member gets aggro from, but you could always just do the math. Its really not that hard as long as you know who is in your group.</p><p>It did always seem a bit strange that you could wander through a zone a number of levels higher than you and not take aggro just by grouping with another toon somewhere in the zone. This was fine when you had to go and reclaim shards (I guess) but now there is really no need.</p><p>If your lower level buddy wants to do a quest that is too high, or visit a zone that is too hard for them, for them so they can level up faster then I guess you just have to put int he effort to kill the stuff for them on the way to completing the quest. Don't see why they should get a free ride (or you should be able to give them one by just by being there).</p><p>Cheith</p><p>Someday I'll do a sig .. maybe when my server goes down all day again ... sigh.</p>

[Outkast1980]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cheith wrote:<div></div><p>This has all been very interesting and I'd hate to try and compare EQ2 to the real world but, guys, these MOBs in the dungeon are predators. If you give them a choice why would they not go for the lowest level character when you were not looking? Why should you be able to grey out MOBs just by hanging around nearby in a Dungeon. If you want to protect your lower level buddy then kill the stuff that would threaten them. Doh.</p><p>Fine, a yellow/orange/blue/green or whatever color box would be nice to show what the lowest level group member gets aggro from, but you could always just do the math. Its really not that hard as long as you know who is in your group.</p><p>It did always seem a bit strange that you could wander through a zone a number of levels higher than you and not take aggro just by grouping with another toon somewhere in the zone. This was fine when you had to go and reclaim shards (I guess) but now there is really no need.</p><p>If your lower level buddy wants to do a quest that is too high, or visit a zone that is too hard for them, for them so they can level up faster then I guess you just have to put int he effort to kill the stuff for them on the way to completing the quest. Don't see why they should get a free ride (or you should be able to give them one by just by being there).</p><p>Cheith</p><p>Someday I'll do a sig .. maybe when my server goes down all day again ... sigh.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I'll just say your wrong. The real world doesnt work like that lol. Not when you are walking around with one of your big buddies it sure doesnt lol</p>

[Chei]

<div></div><p>Does if he's in another room .... don't you watch the movies <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p>

[Outkast1980]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cheith wrote:<div></div><p>Does if he's in another room .... don't you watch the movies <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>doesnt if he is within sight of u <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p>

[Chei]

<div></div><p>See, there you go, instant new ruleset. If the character you are protecting is:</p><p>a) In the same room ... after all monsters traditionally wait beside doorways just out of sight, so they wouldn't see you</p><p>b) close enough to you so that the monster doesn't think it can have a really fast snack without you catching it</p><p>And</p><p>c) you are facing him/her/it ... because if you are not then it will sneak off with your buddy behind your back</p><p>d) you are in the monster's line of sight, because if it can't see you it doesn't know you are there</p><p>e) the monster isn't just plain stupid</p><p>Then your buddy doesn;t take aggro.</p><p>Problem solved.</p><p> </p>