Welcome to LU19 NERF for Tradeskillers -- will increase botts.

[Maroger]

<div><p>This was poorly planned and not really noticeable until you go to live -- the results are horrendous and Beghn needs to go back to the drawing board and try again.</p><p>He has not given enough thought to the harvesting component of rares and now you will see more and more botts to say nothing of prices on the brokers. This whole change to tradeskills was nothing but a big NERF and I don't think that any more changes should go forward.</p><p>Basically this NERF in LU19 has reduced the amount of RARES available to any one tradeskill class.</p><p>Take ORE -- the big deal there was getting Blackened Iron Ore and Iron of courss. NOW - same ORE on T2 gives you salty loam, iron ore, Blackened Iiron Ore , and RARE Loam ( forgot what it is called) - so that is 4 different items coming from ORE which only gives 3 items at any one time. Effectively this reduces your chances considerably getting the ore you need. of course always a chance for a Glowing item</p><p>I think the loams should have been put on the Fungi not on the ores.</p><p>Take WIND SWEPT ROCK- uou used to get electrum, Coral, Silver, and a chance of a Glowing X Now the silver is of no good to scholars and you have to dump it on the broker.</p><p>You are bascially going to have to harvest twice as much to get rares you need. -- Welcome to LU19 NERF.</p></div>

[dom4]

I don't see how this has such a huge negative impact on tradeskillers.  Personaly, I level my TS alts using common drops.  I dont think there has ever been a time where I leveled entirely off of crafting legendary items.  In fact, I generaly prefer not to craft anything legendary until I'm well past the cap just to reduce the chances of screwing up an expensive item.  And even then, someone else harvested/bought the rare and brought it to me to have it crafted into something usualy.  The only people I can see this effecting are the people who harvest purely for profit.  The ones who harvest 4 bags full of stuff, only to throw it all away other than the 1 rare they found.  And that rare is usualy sold for the highest price they think they can get away with, which is generaly well over the amount I'd be willing to spend.  So yes, if you harvest for profit, this may make things a little harder.  But I doubt all the lvl 10 TS alts out there who really form the backbone of the crafting community will even notice the difference.  It may be a bit of a nerf to farmers, but as a crafter myself, I don't see any problem with the new system.  In fact, I like the idea of having a few more ingredients to work with.  It'll make crafting that much more fun for me.  <span>:smileyhappy:</span><div></div>

[Maroger]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>dom420 wrote:I don't see how this has such a huge negative impact on tradeskillers.  Personaly, I level my TS alts using common drops.  I dont think there has ever been a time where I leveled entirely off of crafting legendary items.  In fact, I generaly prefer not to craft anything legendary until I'm well past the cap just to reduce the chances of screwing up an expensive item.  And even then, someone else harvested/bought the rare and brought it to me to have it crafted into something usualy.  The only people I can see this effecting are the people who harvest purely for profit.  The ones who harvest 4 bags full of stuff, only to throw it all away other than the 1 rare they found.  And that rare is usualy sold for the highest price they think they can get away with, which is generaly well over the amount I'd be willing to spend.  So yes, if you harvest for profit, this may make things a little harder.  But I doubt all the lvl 10 TS alts out there who really form the backbone of the crafting community will even notice the difference.  It may be a bit of a nerf to farmers, but as a crafter myself, I don't see any problem with the new system.  In fact, I like the idea of having a few more ingredients to work with.  It'll make crafting that much more fun for me.  <span>:smileyhappy:</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><div>I went out of my way to harvest rares for my alts. All my alts and my main had either Maste or ADept 3 for spells. ANd my SK has a full suit of Blackened Iron Armor with the Imbue for legs and Chest.</div><div> </div><div>But what is really annoying is they even managed to lose apprentice level spells like KICK and INTERVENE -- Beghn needs to stop this conversion until he fixes the mess he has made.</div>

[Magu]

Silver can still be used. Turn it into ink.Yay for checking your info before you post!<div></div>

[Tevilspek]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:Silver can still be used. Turn it into ink.Yay for checking your info before you post!<div></div><hr></blockquote>So when I preview Rune of Archer's Stance (Adept III), as I am right now, and the base ingredient lists 'Rough Coral' - no listing of ink or some loam - how am I supposed to know, if I make up an ink with Silver, whether I've effectively just wasted a rare? Because it doesn't say I can use Ink to create that Adept 3 anymore.Only Rough Coral is listed.Then I look at making some rare poisons. Hmm that still asks for Lined Poison vial, Suspension, Soapweed Oil... so I still need to make up an Ink, to get a loam, to make a vial.. But then I've made an Ink which I can't use in an Adept 3??Is this all "working as intended (tm)"?Oh, and then I go to make the Adept 3 Divert (level 1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, and hell, it's not even there!</span></div>

[Calthine]

<div></div><div>You're a little behind on the news :smileyhappy:  The current changes aren't done yet.  Here's everything the TS Dev has said about the changes.</div><div> </div><div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=83780" target="_blank"><font color="#dda600">Tradekskill Bug List - Post LU 19.</font></a></div><div> </div><div>Your existing ink should work in place of the raw, for as long as we have ink recipes.</div>

[Tevilspek]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Calthine wrote:<div></div><div>You're a little behind on the news :smileyhappy:  The current changes aren't done yet. </div><hr></blockquote>Aren't done yet, as in pushed live with a half-[Removed for Content] dog's breakfast of changes?Poisons that are made at level 5 yet cannot be used by any Ranger.Skills that require just the harvested loams, yet the poisons still need loams from the inks - which are no longer made.Some jewlery is one combine, but then a malachite earring is the full stud-setting-jewel combine.Aren't done yet as in pushed live half the tradeskill changes, with a few broken and non-existant recipes (why is there no level 6 apprentice spells in the level 6 tradeskills book?).Aren't done yet as in all 100% of these changes, level 1-70, are going to be in and working smoothly for the release of KoS and the PvP servers?Why was this mess of a 1-20 change introduced Live with only half of a bug-ridden part of it done anyways?This sort of mess should still be on Test.This is my main point (and concern). Why the hell is this mess Live?I re-rolled a Ranger today to do a mock runthrough of the new changes before the PvP servers go live. Loved the Ranger changes, whole lot of fun.Then when I went to craft poisons, apprentice spells and jewelery, I very rapidly lost all enthusiasm...Please Mr Dev, is there any confirmation that this 'Tradeskill System' is going to be completed and ready to go live by KoQ/PvP time?Right now, I highly doubt it.</span></div>

[Magu]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Tevilspek wrote:<div><span>So when I preview Rune of Archer's Stance (Adept III), as I am right now, and the base ingredient lists 'Rough Coral' - no listing of ink or some loam - how am I supposed to know, if I make up an ink with Silver, whether I've effectively just wasted a rare? Because it doesn't say I can use Ink to create that Adept 3 anymore.Only Rough Coral is listed.</span></div><hr></blockquote>I am well aware of what is listed, but the ink DOES work. I just used ink to make 10 copper clusters work in adept3 spells.</span></div>

[Wingrider01]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tevilspek wrote:<span><div></div><blockquote><hr>Calthine wrote:<div></div><div>You're a little behind on the news :smileyhappy:  The current changes aren't done yet. </div><hr></blockquote><div>Aren't done yet, as in pushed live with a half-[Removed for Content] dog's breakfast of changes?Poisons that are made at level 5 yet cannot be used by any Ranger.</div><div> </div><div><em>Will start this with the comment that I have not played a ranger in eq2, but would this be more the fact of the class changes rather then the trade skill changes. Rangers where offshoots of the Scout class, then you chose Predator then either a assassin or a ranger, now when you become a ranger where you able to utilize the higher level poisons? Like I said, seems more a offshoot of the class change rather then the Trade Skill change</em></div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Skills that require just the harvested loams, yet the poisons still need loams from the inks - which are no longer made.</div><div> </div><div><em>Have not noticed that in the 1-19, now 20+ you still make the inks, which give you the loams, the below 19 items I trade asked for the new harvested loams, can you please list the recipies that are still that way below 19? Can't find any in the knowledge book</em></div><div> </div><div>Some jewlery is one combine, but then a malachite earring is the full stud-setting-jewel combine.</div><div> </div><div><em>I was under the impression that the current changes did not affect jewelry at all, can you point out a couple of recipe names that have this issue? Curious</em>Aren't done yet as in pushed live half the tradeskill changes, with a few broken and non-existant recipes (why is there no level 6 apprentice spells in the level 6 tradeskills book?).</div><div> </div><div><em>Again, can you document this? over the last few days since the LU went live I have been making app IV spells for all my alts, I have not found one yet that did not have a recipie on the newly changed spells or the old ones, this is from level 5 to 19 for the spells. </em></div><div> </div><div>Aren't done yet as in all 100% of these changes, level 1-70, are going to be in and working smoothly for the release of KoS and the PvP servers?Why was this mess of a 1-20 change introduced Live with only half of a bug-ridden part of it done anyways?This sort of mess should still be on Test.This is my main point (and concern). Why the hell is this mess Live?</div><div> </div><div><em>Have not seen  any major issues with the LU 19 tradeskill changes in the limited time I have used them for sub 19 scholar and artisian spells, combat abilities or poisons</em>.<em> I am not saying that it is perfect, just that I have not seen the issues you talk of sub 19 on my alchemist or my sage in doing sub 19 recipies</em>I re-rolled a Ranger today to do a mock runthrough of the new changes before the PvP servers go live. Loved the Ranger changes, whole lot of fun.Then when I went to craft poisons, apprentice spells and jewelery, I very rapidly lost all enthusiasm...Please Mr Dev, is there any confirmation that this 'Tradeskill System' is going to be completed and ready to go live by KoQ/PvP time?Right now, I highly doubt it.</div></span><hr></blockquote>

[Etherium]

<div></div>My only issue is that I seem to end up with nearly twice as many loams as I do iron in T2 harvesting.  I need the iron and the loams are near worthless.  Is metal needed that much less than the loams? 

[Wingrider01]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Etherium wrote:<div></div>My only issue is that I seem to end up with nearly twice as many loams as I do iron in T2 harvesting.  I need the iron and the loams are near worthless.  Is metal needed that much less than the loams? <hr></blockquote>Noticed that myself last night, I just wrote it off to the Goddess of Random smiling on me because I need the loams, even got a couple of the rares in my tour of anatonica and commlands

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Tevilspek wrote:<div><span>So when I preview Rune of Archer's Stance (Adept III), as I am right now, and the base ingredient lists 'Rough Coral' - no listing of ink or some loam - how am I supposed to know, if I make up an ink with Silver, whether I've effectively just wasted a rare? Because it doesn't say I can use Ink to create that Adept 3 anymore.Only Rough Coral is listed.</span></div><hr></blockquote>I am well aware of what is listed, but the ink DOES work. I just used ink to make 10 copper clusters work in adept3 spells.</span></div><hr></blockquote>For runes and scrolls it does work. </span><div></div>

[pera]

Imo the biggest reason people used bots was because crafting all the sub componats was such a massive task that it took many mind numing hours if you wanted to batch craft anything.   So really i could see this change cutting down on people that bot crafting.<div></div>

[illum]

<div></div><p>I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry for a repeat.  I believe the whole purpose of the haresting trend was to reduce the amount of rares available.  unfortunately as a side effect, regular harvests will be a little harder to get...but the "normal" harvests will still be fairly easy to get.</p><p>with the changes, you'll just be spending more time harvesting instead of crafting...a shift in where the the time sink is.</p>

[Maroger]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>illumin wrote:<div></div><p>I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry for a repeat.  I believe the whole purpose of the haresting trend was to reduce the amount of rares available.  unfortunately as a side effect, regular harvests will be a little harder to get...but the "normal" harvests will still be fairly easy to get.</p><p>with the changes, you'll just be spending more time harvesting instead of crafting...a shift in where the the time sink is.</p><hr></blockquote>Personally I prefer the timesink in Crafting -- not harvesting. And you are right this change does make it harder to get rares than it uses to be -- especially from Ore types nodes.

[Cuz]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>illumin wrote:<div></div><p>I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry for a repeat.  I believe the whole purpose of the haresting trend was to reduce the amount of rares available.  unfortunately as a side effect, regular harvests will be a little harder to get...but the "normal" harvests will still be fairly easy to get.</p><p>with the changes, you'll just be spending more time harvesting instead of crafting...a shift in where the the time sink is.</p><hr></blockquote>Personally I prefer the timesink in Crafting -- not harvesting. And you are right this change does make it harder to get rares than it uses to be -- especially from Ore types nodes.<hr></blockquote>Not me. The wall behind my chemestry table holds no surprises to me anymore.

[Rhianni]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div><p>This was poorly planned and not really noticeable until you go to live -- the results are horrendous and Beghn needs to go back to the drawing board and try again.</p><p>He has not given enough thought to the harvesting component of rares and now you will see more and more botts to say nothing of prices on the brokers. This whole change to tradeskills was nothing but a big NERF and I don't think that any more changes should go forward.</p><p>Basically this NERF in LU19 has reduced the amount of RARES available to any one tradeskill class.</p><p>Take ORE -- the big deal there was getting Blackened Iron Ore and Iron of courss. NOW - same ORE on T2 gives you salty loam, iron ore, Blackened Iiron Ore , and RARE Loam ( forgot what it is called) - so that is 4 different items coming from ORE which only gives 3 items at any one time. Effectively this reduces your chances considerably getting the ore you need. of course always a chance for a Glowing item</p><p>I think the loams should have been put on the Fungi not on the ores.</p><p>Take WIND SWEPT ROCK- uou used to get electrum, Coral, Silver, and a chance of a Glowing X Now the silver is of no good to scholars and you have to dump it on the broker.</p><p>You are bascially going to have to harvest twice as much to get rares you need. -- Welcome to LU19 NERF.</p></div><hr></blockquote>So it was fine when jewelars to be screwed cause adept3 rare stones were on their node but now the system is ruined because its us armorers and weaponsmiths that are impacted?

[Anhar]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Wingrider01 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tevilspek wrote:<span><div></div><blockquote><hr>Calthine wrote:<div></div><div>You're a little behind on the news :smileyhappy:  The current changes aren't done yet. </div><hr></blockquote><div>Aren't done yet, as in pushed live with a half-[Removed for Content] dog's breakfast of changes?Poisons that are made at level 5 yet cannot be used by any Ranger.</div><div> </div><div><em>Will start this with the comment that I have not played a ranger in eq2, but would this be more the fact of the class changes rather then the trade skill changes. Rangers where offshoots of the Scout class, then you chose Predator then either a assassin or a ranger, now when you become a ranger where you able to utilize the higher level poisons? Like I said, seems more a offshoot of the class change rather then the Trade Skill change</em></div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Skills that require just the harvested loams, yet the poisons still need loams from the inks - which are no longer made.</div><div> </div><div><em>Have not noticed that in the 1-19, now 20+ you still make the inks, which give you the loams, the below 19 items I trade asked for the new harvested loams, can you please list the recipies that are still that way below 19? Can't find any in the knowledge book</em></div><div> </div><div>Some jewlery is one combine, but then a malachite earring is the full stud-setting-jewel combine.</div><div> </div><div><em>I was under the impression that the current changes did not affect jewelry at all, can you point out a couple of recipe names that have this issue? Curious</em>Aren't done yet as in pushed live half the tradeskill changes, with a few broken and non-existant recipes (why is there no level 6 apprentice spells in the level 6 tradeskills book?).</div><div> </div><div><em>Again, can you document this? over the last few days since the LU went live I have been making app IV spells for all my alts, I have not found one yet that did not have a recipie on the newly changed spells or the old ones, this is from level 5 to 19 for the spells. </em></div><div> </div><div>Aren't done yet as in all 100% of these changes, level 1-70, are going to be in and working smoothly for the release of KoS and the PvP servers?Why was this mess of a 1-20 change introduced Live with only half of a bug-ridden part of it done anyways?This sort of mess should still be on Test.This is my main point (and concern). Why the hell is this mess Live?</div><div> </div><div><em>Have not seen  any major issues with the LU 19 tradeskill changes in the limited time I have used them for sub 19 scholar and artisian spells, combat abilities or poisons</em>.<em> I am not saying that it is perfect, just that I have not seen the issues you talk of sub 19 on my alchemist or my sage in doing sub 19 recipies</em><font color="#66ff00">The combat-arts <strong><font color="#ff0000">Kick</font></strong> and <strong><font color="#ff0000">Intervene</font></strong> are definatly missing as of Sunday. Not sure of the combat arts for level 6-9 fighters since I didn't take the time to make those yet. I'll go into the game tonight and see what other arts and spells are missing from level 1-9. (YoesGato hasen't gotten to Qeynos yet, so can't craft above level 9 items yet.)</font></div><div><font color="#66ff00"></font>I re-rolled a Ranger today to do a mock runthrough of the new changes before the PvP servers go live. Loved the Ranger changes, whole lot of fun.Then when I went to craft poisons, apprentice spells and jewelery, I very rapidly lost all enthusiasm...Please Mr Dev, is there any confirmation that this 'Tradeskill System' is going to be completed and ready to go live by KoQ/PvP time?Right now, I highly doubt it.</div></span><hr></blockquote><hr></blockquote>

[MadLordOfMilk]

...you failed to mention how this has <i>anything </i>to do with botting...<div></div>

[Ekuthh]

<div></div><blockquote><div><p> </p><p><font color="#ff0000">You are bascially going to have to harvest twice as much to get rares you need.</font></p><hr></div></blockquote><p>Which would mean those folks who use bots will be running them to get the rares...</p><p>...</p><p>Wait, they already do.</p><p>No change that I can see.</p>

[MadLordOfMilk]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Ekuth wrote:<div></div><blockquote><div><p> </p><p><font color="#ff0000">You are bascially going to have to harvest twice as much to get rares you need.</font></p><hr></div></blockquote><p>Which would mean those folks who use bots will be running them to get the rares...</p><p>...</p><p>Wait, they already do.</p><p>No change that I can see.</p><hr></blockquote>Yeah, I can't really see any change......I've only heard of the harvesting bot on Tault, and that one supposedly stops working after like 2 nodes... plus, harvesting isn't exactly a specific-spot thing, so it'd end up being a somewhat complex program to run a bot... in other words, you'd either pay through the roof if you could even find one buyable, or you'd have to program one yourself, and I honestly don't see them being all that feasable... but you're sure that people actually bot for harvesting right now? I haven't seen it personally, but I could be wrong.  /end_rambling</span></div>

[Dazzler_Twodir]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>MadLordOfMilk wrote:...you failed to mention how this has <i>anything </i>to do with botting...<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>New crafters start trying it now that it's easier.</p><p>Finished items on market increase in supply but decrese in demand and cost.</p><p>Harvested raw/rares on market decrese in supply but increase in demand and cost.</p><p>Botters take advantage and the 24/7 bot harvesters come out of the woodwork hogging all the nodes across the tiers to sell them to new crafters then sell thier coin for real cash.</p>

[Ekuthh]

<div></div><blockquote><p> </p><p><font color="#ff0000">Botters take advantage and the 24/7 bot harvesters come out of the woodwork hogging all the nodes across the tiers</font> to sell them to new crafters then sell thier coin for real cash.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Okay, not looking to start a flame war or anything, just confuzzled.  How exactly can someone "hog" a node?  I harvest all the time, for hours on end in the same areas- the nodes respawn regularly.  By the time I'm done running my route, fresh nodes have already popped up.  Now admittedly, I dont "cherry pick" nodes- I try to harvest everything so the nodes will respawn.  I can tell when a "cherry picker" has been through an area because I'll generally find nothing but fungi, shrubs and wood....  is that what you consider "hogging"?</p><p>If so, I'd tend to agree- it is darn near impossible to find ore or stone in some zones, but provies snatch up the other stuff like crazy, so *shrug* I still make my gold.  Maybe I dont get that Ebon Cluster to sell for 2p, but it averages out.</p><p>The second part confuses me too... How the heck do they sell the coin for real cash?  Unless you're on an Exchange Server, you cant.  Unless those plat selling companies will also buy for cash.  You'd think that you'd have to harvest so much to make it hardly worth the effort though.</p><p>I know, circular argument.</p>

[domestic godde]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ekuth wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p> </p><p><font color="#ff0000">Botters take advantage and the 24/7 bot harvesters come out of the woodwork hogging all the nodes across the tiers</font> to sell them to new crafters then sell thier coin for real cash.</p><hr></blockquote><p>The second part confuses me too... How the heck do they sell the coin for real cash?  Unless you're on an Exchange Server, you cant.  Unless those plat selling companies will also buy for cash.  You'd think that you'd have to harvest so much to make it hardly worth the effort though.</p><p>I know, circular argument.</p><hr></blockquote>Of course they sell coin for real cash. You're not supposed to, so on non-exchange servers makes it worth all the more. Ebay, plat buying companies and "players" placed by those companies in game. If no one PAID rl cash for plat, wouldn't be an issue, so that's really the circular part...<p>Message Edited by domestic goddess on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:59 PM</span></p>