More stickage to the farmers!

[Junkisfunk]

<div></div><div>This was applied to the test servers today -</div><div> </div><div><span class="headline">Update Notes: January 30th, 2006<i> 1/30/2006 11:45 am PST</i></span>*** Items ***</div><div>- Item drop rates now obey the same rules as experience does when damage is contributed by people or creatures other than the group or person that engages an encounter. That is, you will be less likely to find treasure chests on creatures who players outside of your group help fight. The more damage they do, the less likely you will be to obtain the loot.</div><div> </div><div>WTG SOE! More good stuff to stick it to farmers!</div><div> </div><div>Junk</div>

[Calthine]

<div></div>rock on <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[cheerupbrian]

Simple, wasn't it. As I've said "the simple things in life are often the best" SOE should apply that to all areas of the game, Yes some will think it's dumbing down, but the  majority should be catered for first. Whew Felt good to get that off my chest.Thanks<div></div>

[SniperKitty]

I still think named encounters should be auto-locked.<div></div>

[Magu]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>SniperKitty wrote:I still think named encounters should be auto-locked.<div></div><hr></blockquote>And it's still a horrible idea.</span></div><p>Message Edited by Magus` on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:32 PM</span></p>

[SniperKitty]

Whatever.  Auto-locking named encounters is the best and easiest way to stop farmers.  There's no reason for anyone to ever sit around and tag a named mob so a lvl 60 can destroy it with no danger to themselves and still get loot.Since you're saying it's a bad idea, you're probably one of those morons farming RoV and RE all the time.  The sooner they put these changes live the happier I'll be.  I just wish I could petition the bastages exploiting the unlocked encounters right now and get their pathetic arses banned.<div></div>

[Lydiae]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>SniperKitty wrote:Whatever.  Auto-locking named encounters is the best and easiest way to stop farmers.  There's no reason for anyone to ever sit around and tag a named mob so a lvl 60 can destroy it with no danger to themselves and still get loot.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Read the update note again.  If someone tags a MoB and a level 60 outside their group kills it, it won't drop loot.

[AbsentmindedMage]

Sounds like a griefing mechanism.  Someone sees another person taking a name, they jump in and do some damage and little to no loot drops.  End result people go back to selecting lock encounters.I agree autolocking should never have been removed.  Too many problems have arisen.  The people who do not want autolocking are the people who exploit to achieve things they normally couldnt.   An example,  using two groups on carpet quest 4 which is a single group encounter.  You have an outside group healing the first group.  Then you have this issue of farmers that has come about from the lack of autolocking.The system should go back to the way it was.  In other words, autolocking and there should be zone access quests for places like Enchanted Lands, Zek, etc... as before.<div></div>

[Besual]

Sounds like it will slow down "causal farmers" (the ones only dual boxing high level DPS / low level puller) and favor the professional farmers who can run 4+ toons. Let me take a few into the future:New farm groups after LU19: 1 high level tank outside to snap agro as soon as a low level toon pulls, 1-6 low level DPS toons to kill the named. Put in a healer for some safty buffer. Well, thinking twice about this I would bring a high level debuffer (a bard class), high level healer and 1-6 low level DPS toons.And the grief potential is not bad: OMG! The group is in "trouble", I will "help" them and burn down the named. I'm such a nice guy...<div></div>

[Gobbwin]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Besual wrote:Sounds like it will slow down "causal farmers" (the ones only dual boxing high level DPS / low level puller) and favor the professional farmers who can run 4+ toons. Let me take a few into the future:New farm groups after LU19: 1 high level tank outside to snap agro as soon as a low level toon pulls, 1-6 low level DPS toons to kill the named. Put in a healer for some safty buffer. Well, thinking twice about this I would bring a high level debuffer (a bard class), high level healer and 1-6 low level DPS toons.And the grief potential is not bad: OMG! The group is in "trouble", I will "help" them and burn down the named. I'm such a nice guy...<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>True, but people will always find a way to bend, break, or get around the rules and get away with it.  As you say, this change will reduce the casual farmers, but have you been in some of the low/mid level dungeons lately?  That is pretty much all it is, one high lvl dps and a low lvl toon as bait.  This will be a huge help as not only will it be more difficult for them to move around (since the con aggro change), but it will make it so that the lower lvl has to do all of the killing, which will take MUCH longer.  It will quickly boil down to a question of is it still worth their time.  To some it will be, to most the quick and easy profits can be found elsewhere.  This isnt the end all answer, but it is a step in the right direction.</p><p> </p><p>Edit: Forgot to mention, 2 boxing is hard enough in this game, let alone someone running more accounts than that simultaneously.  Yes I know there are 3rd party programs and other ways to do this, but most of the current farmers (I.E. the casual farmers) do not use these methods.  Its just one person w/ 2 accounts, switching back and forth as necessary.</p><p>Message Edited by Gobbwin on <span class="date_text">01-31-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:06 AM</span></p>

[Kizee]

<div></div><p>/shrug</p><p>I will just sit back and let my friend do all the damage and kill the mob while I heal him.</p><p>Once again SOE doesn't think things through fully.</p>

[Tro]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lydiaele wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>SniperKitty wrote:Whatever.  Auto-locking named encounters is the best and easiest way to stop farmers.  There's no reason for anyone to ever sit around and tag a named mob so a lvl 60 can destroy it with no danger to themselves and still get loot.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Read the update note again.  <font color="#ff0066">If someone tags a MoB and a level 60 outside their group kills it, it won't drop loot.</font><hr></blockquote><p>It will drop loot but only if the initial attacker does 51% or more of the damage (I believe thats the way the experience works anyway).. Correct me if I am off base here please..</p><p>Thanks</p>

[SniperKitty]

Actually, to me, the way it reads is that the more damage done by the outside player (healing should count too) than the chance for loot drops proportionately.  So if an outside source does 25% of the damage to the encounter, the chance for loot will drop by 25% or some other imaginary number that only SOE truly knows.<div></div>

[AratornCalahn]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote:<div></div><p>/shrug</p><p>I will just sit back and let my friend do all the damage and kill the mob while I heal him.</p><p>Once again SOE doesn't think things through fully.</p><hr></blockquote>when the apporpriate level group comes by and griefs you by burning down the mob making it drop no loot ;P</span><div></div>

[Tro]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>AratornCalahn wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote:<div></div><p>/shrug</p><p>I will just sit back and let my friend do all the damage and kill the mob while I heal him.</p><p>Once again SOE doesn't think things through fully.</p><hr></blockquote>when the apporpriate level group comes by <font color="#ff0066">and griefs you</font> by burning down the mob making it drop no loot ;P</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Can someone please explain what is meant by "Griefing" someone? I am thinking something like Kill Stealing based on what have read but not 100% sure.. I have started seeing this alot recently but not sure what it is referring to..

[Aegori]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Trook wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>AratornCalahn wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote:<div></div><p>/shrug</p><p>I will just sit back and let my friend do all the damage and kill the mob while I heal him.</p><p>Once again SOE doesn't think things through fully.</p><hr></blockquote>when the apporpriate level group comes by <font color="#ff0066">and griefs you</font> by burning down the mob making it drop no loot ;P</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Can someone please explain what is meant by "Griefing" someone? I am thinking something like Kill Stealing based on what have read but not 100% sure.. I have started seeing this alot recently but not sure what it is referring to..<hr></blockquote><p>what the griefing referref to is the fact that  (assuming you leave your encounters unlocked), someone could come along and just start whaling away on your mobs now without asking you, thus reducing the chance you have for loot. Theoretically, i could just follow your group around the entire night with my DPS character and take 30-40% health from every mob making it that much harder for your group to get loot. I wouldnt have much of a reason to do this other than to cause your group "grief" (hence griefing). However, like i said initially, all people have to do is be judicious in changing their lock options and this wont be a problem.</p><p>-Aeg</p><p>Message Edited by Aegorian on <span class="date_text">01-31-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:08 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Aegorian on <span class="date_text">01-31-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:08 PM</span></p>

[Blintok]

can you not just type /lock when u start the fight? ( i think that is the command.) and that locks the encounter to you or yourgroup?I know i used the command to lock an encounter recently to see how it works. Does the command -again not 100% positivebut i think its /lock - not work on named mobs?could u not make a macro that runs this command at the start of your fight?

[Aegori]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Blintok wrote:can you not just type /lock when u start the fight? ( i think that is the command.) and that locks the encounter to you or yourgroup?I know i used the command to lock an encounter recently to see how it works. Does the command -again not 100% positivebut i think its /lock - not work on named mobs?could u not make a macro that runs this command at the start of your fight?<hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>exactly <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> with these changes, that will prevent griefing. Without the changes tho, the high lvl/low lvl duo farming could still take place. Under that method a low lvl player pulls a mob and leaves the encounter unlocked. The high level player would pull the mob off the low lvl player and beat it down. This produces loot given that the low lvl player pulled the mob. The changes virtually prevent this from happening while giving legit players the ability to pull their encounters and lock them without possibility of griefing. Good change IMHO.</p>

[Obadiah]

<div></div><p>It's a good change, but still incomplete.</p><p>Now the high level character is either a tank - to hold aggro while the lowbie kills the mob - or a healer. Takes a bit longer sure, but in the end it's a more rewarding method anyway since the lowbie will get full XP in addition to their master chests.</p><p>Locking named encounters still seems like the answer to me.  </p>

[Junkisfunk]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Aegorian wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Blintok wrote:can you not just type /lock when u start the fight? ( i think that is the command.) and that locks the encounter to you or yourgroup?I know i used the command to lock an encounter recently to see how it works. Does the command -again not 100% positivebut i think its /lock - not work on named mobs?could u not make a macro that runs this command at the start of your fight?<hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>exactly <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> with these changes, that will prevent griefing. Without the changes tho, the high lvl/low lvl duo farming could still take place. Under that method a low lvl player pulls a mob and leaves the encounter unlocked. The high level player would pull the mob off the low lvl player and beat it down. This produces loot given that the low lvl player pulled the mob. The changes virtually prevent this from happening while giving legit players the ability to pull their encounters and lock them without possibility of griefing. Good change IMHO.</p><hr></blockquote><p>You could even click that little box under group options that makes all encounters lock as well <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If someone was truly trying to grief you then it should only happen like... what... one time before you go to options and turn that little baby on?!? Sounds to me like the griefers got it bad man.. Stop mak'in negative waves!</p><p>Junk</p>

[Tro]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Aegorian wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Trook wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>AratornCalahn wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote:<div></div><p>/shrug</p><p>I will just sit back and let my friend do all the damage and kill the mob while I heal him.</p><p>Once again SOE doesn't think things through fully.</p><hr></blockquote>when the apporpriate level group comes by <font color="#ff0066">and griefs you</font> by burning down the mob making it drop no loot ;P</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Can someone please explain what is meant by "Griefing" someone? I am thinking something like Kill Stealing based on what have read but not 100% sure.. I have started seeing this alot recently but not sure what it is referring to..<hr></blockquote><p>what the griefing referref to is the fact that  (assuming you leave your encounters unlocked), someone could come along and just start whaling away on your mobs now without asking you, thus reducing the chance you have for loot. Theoretically, i could just follow your group around the entire night with my DPS character and take 30-40% health from every mob making it that much harder for your group to get loot. I wouldnt have much of a reason to do this other than to cause your group "grief" (hence griefing). However, like i said initially, all people have to do is be judicious in changing their lock options and this wont be a problem.</p><p>-Aeg</p><p>Message Edited by Aegorian on <span class="date_text">01-31-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:08 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Aegorian on <span class="date_text">01-31-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:08 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Now I understand.. Kinda like someone following me and harvesting the nodes I start to mine.. Can't lock those though lol...</p><p>Thanks a bunch.. Appreciate the info..</p>

[Almeric_CoS]

<div>This is a positive change overall (so long as you know to /lock your nameds), but until they change the external combat code to including healing instead of JUST damage output, this won't affect farmers too severely.</div><div> </div><div>I'd prefer to see autolocking of named mobs, but we'll see ... SOE clearly knows farming is a problem, but seems standoffish to lay the smack down on farmers.</div>

[Pashta]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Junkisfunk wrote:<div></div><div>This was applied to the test servers today -</div><div> </div><div><span class="headline">Update Notes: January 30th, 2006<i> 1/30/2006 11:45 am PST</i></span>*** Items ***</div><div>- Item drop rates now obey the same rules as experience does when damage is contributed by people or creatures other than the group or person that engages an encounter. That is, you will be less likely to find treasure chests on creatures who players outside of your group help fight. The more damage they do, the less likely you will be to obtain the loot.</div><div> </div><div>WTG SOE! More good stuff to stick it to farmers!</div><div> </div><div>Junk</div><hr></blockquote> This is great!  Now can we forget about the un-greying out thing, please?  This will take care of farming.

[Junkisfunk]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Almeric wrote:<div>This is a positive change overall (so long as you know to /lock your nameds), but until they change the external combat code to including healing instead of JUST damage output, this won't affect farmers too severely.</div><div> </div><div>I'd prefer to see autolocking of named mobs, but we'll see ... SOE clearly knows farming is a problem, but seems standoffish to lay the smack down on farmers.</div><hr></blockquote><p>I think its more like trying to do the right thing than being standoffish. Rememebr these changes went to test and may not make it to live. They will test them and see if they work as they intended. If not then they will pull them and try something different.</p><p>Junk</p>

[Kizee]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Junkisfunk wrote:<div></div><blockquote>Rememebr these changes went to test and may not make it to live. They will test them and see if they work as they intended. If not then they will pull them and try something different.</blockquote><p>Junk</p><hr></blockquote><p>:smileyvery-happy:</p><p>I can't remember any change that went to test and didn't make it to live.</p>

[MadLordOfMilk]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Junkisfunk wrote:<div></div><blockquote>Rememebr these changes went to test and may not make it to live. They will test them and see if they work as they intended. If not then they will pull them and try something different.</blockquote><p>Junk</p><hr></blockquote><p>:smileyvery-happy:</p><p>I can't remember any change that went to test and didn't make it to live.</p><hr></blockquote>Easy - all quest rewards going NO-TRADE <span>:smileytongue:</span></span></div>

[JoarAddam]

<div>It sounds Great! </div><div> </div><div>I do see potential for Griefing in it tho.  (It would only happen once to those who remember after that point that they can set their encounters to lock.  It would never happen to me, I have my encounters set to lock all the time). </div><div> </div><div>X group fights Y mob. Z group, just for the sake of sticking it to X group, attacks Y to try to force no treasure drop.</div>

[Griffinclaw]

<div></div><p>I think this is a wonderful change and will help greatly in eliminating farmers.  I know some people are still concerned that the high levels will just become healers to help there low-level "friend".  Well, I wouldnt worry about that too much.  If most players are like me,  They will join in and help a young player take down the BIG BAD MONSTER, especially If I see a high level player healing him.  I mean, I know it will lessen the chance of them getting a drop, but apparently they need help defeating the encounter.  I am sure they would be quite happy with me "helping" them out.  If not, they would have locked the encounter <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Lerath_Litefo]

Heh...I just had a brainstorm. Yes, this change does open up the possibility of griefing legitimate players trying to kill named mobs for loot. But it also opens up one other delicious possibility...griefing the loot farmers.Imagine the possibilities...you have a farm team that finds a new way to exploit the system by using outside help somehow. Everyone in the zone is ticked off at them taking all the names....Everyone in the zone starts following the farm team around and wailing on every mob they engage to the point where they're lucky to get a tin cluster to drop from the mobs...LOLJust how long do you think that farm team would stick around that night under those circumstances? Heh, heh....ahhh delicious revenge. =)

[Tro]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Pashta wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Junkisfunk wrote:<div></div><div>This was applied to the test servers today -</div><div> </div><div><span class="headline">Update Notes: January 30th, 2006<i> 1/30/2006 11:45 am PST</i></span>*** Items ***</div><div>- Item drop rates now obey the same rules as experience does when damage is contributed by people or creatures other than the group or person that engages an encounter. That is, you will be less likely to find treasure chests on creatures who players outside of your group help fight. The more damage they do, the less likely you will be to obtain the loot.</div><div> </div><div>WTG SOE! More good stuff to stick it to farmers!</div><div> </div><div>Junk</div><hr></blockquote> This is great!  Now can we forget about the un-greying out thing, please?  This will take care of farming.<hr></blockquote>The change to dis-allow greying out the zone for lower level folks was not soley based the farming issue. It was going to be implemented anyway due to no more shard recoveries.. The farming problem I am sure just forced SoE to speed up it's implementation.

[ChrisRay]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>AbsentmindedMage wrote:<i><b>Sounds like a griefing mechanism.  Someone sees another person taking a name, they jump in and do some damage and little to no loot drops.  End result people go back to selecting lock encounters.</b></i><font color="#666699">Not really. If you're afraid you're gonna be griefed. You have the option of locking any encounter manually.</font>I agree autolocking should never have been removed.  Too many problems have arisen.  The people who do not want autolocking are the people who exploit to achieve things they normally couldnt.   An example,  using two groups on carpet quest 4 which is a single group encounter.  You have an outside group healing the first group.  Then you have this issue of farmers that has come about from the lack of autolocking.The system should go back to the way it was.  In other words, autolocking and there should be zone access quests for places like Enchanted Lands, Zek, etc... as before.<div></div><hr></blockquote></span></div>

[Tro]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>ChrisRay wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>AbsentmindedMage wrote:<i><b>Sounds like a griefing mechanism.  Someone sees another person taking a name, they jump in and do some damage and little to no loot drops.  End result people go back to selecting lock encounters.</b></i><font color="#666699">Not really. If you're afraid you're gonna be griefed. You have the option of locking any encounter manually.</font>I agree autolocking should never have been removed.  Too many problems have arisen.  The people who do not want autolocking are the people who exploit to achieve things they normally couldnt.   An example,  using two groups on carpet quest 4 which is a single group encounter.  You have an outside group healing the first group.  Then you have this issue of farmers that has come about from the lack of autolocking.The system should go back to the way it was.  In other words, autolocking and there should be zone access quests for places like Enchanted Lands, Zek, etc... as before.<div></div><hr></blockquote></span></div><hr></blockquote><p>I dont care what you are talking about in this game.. someone will find a way to exploit it.. I for one like the idea of having more control over how my encounters work. If I feel I need to lock it,  i can.. if not then I dont. To have it locked automatically with me having no control isn't something I would want to see. I was happy to see the autolocking go away. I like having more choices at my disposal..   Ofcourse most all knew this would open up more problems.. and the Dev's knew it as well..</p><p>We will just have to see how these changes play out.</p><p>Message Edited by Trook on <span class="date_text">02-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:50 AM</span></p>

[Solkarr]

<div></div>oh yeah... that will show the farmers, go ahead and get yourself banned for griefing them!  Farming is highly irritating and the devs are trying to curtail it, however griefing is a banable offense... have fun!

[Flor]

<div></div>Excellent change on SOE's part although there is the potential of griefing as many have pointed out on this thread.  I still think the idea of auto locking named encounters is probably the best best idea.  Way to go SOE.  Get the level 60s out of the low level places and let the lower level players have a chance at some of the loot.   I'm sick and tired of the greedy bastaards farming these low level places.  Sorry to offend anyone but I'm really tired of named mobs being constantly camped by a level 20 and level 60 for example.   Grrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Berek_IronAxe]

<div></div><p>I think this is a good Idea, but I see some potential issues - but now I will have to curtail my habit of helping out a fellow toon in trouble.  If I see someone in trouble I will usually throw an Arrow Attack, Fireball into the mob to help them out(depending on what I am running).  Now I can see that wont fly and I will have to let them get the stuffing beat out of them.  I can just imagine the /tell I would get if I save their bacon and they get a bad chest drop.</p><p>(Devil's Advocate Time) I can see a group of toons standing around watching their fellow players die.  I hate the thought of coming up on a fight, seeing the toon being swamped but not being able to assist - do to affecting their potentail treasure drop - and their anger at me for screwing them.  I play my characters (especially my Ranger, Guardian and my Pallie) as a protential protector to all those that I come across, assist those in danger.  I can see where this change can cause me to be the scourge of the zone unintentionally.  I would think that this will put a rift between players, instead of the heartfelt thanks sent through a /tell as I run on to my destination, I get the {Insert your angry retort here}. </p><p>I know Farming is a huge problem, I see the chinese farmers constantly but there is little I can do to stop them other than report and hope a GM can get them.  I see the groups of toons raiding into RE and Mob stealing.  I agree something needs to be done, Mob locking I do not like since it defeats the purpose of a sense of community.  I have no good answer but I wanted to voice my opinions.</p>

[Aegori]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Berek_IronAxe wrote:<div></div><p>I think this is a good Idea, but I see some potential issues - but now I will have to curtail my habit of helping out a fellow toon in trouble.  If I see someone in trouble I will usually throw an Arrow Attack, Fireball into the mob to help them out(depending on what I am running).  Now I can see that wont fly and I will have to let them get the stuffing beat out of them.  I can just imagine the /tell I would get if I save their bacon and they get a bad chest drop.</p><hr></blockquote>honestly, i dont think you'll have to worry about this, as i imagine groups will be much more careful to lock their encounters once this change goes live to avoid griefing. In a good group, there wont be the opportunity for outside assistance <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[ashen1973]

<div></div><p>This is a great idea, it won't stop farmers outright ( high level healer/tank , low level dps etc..) but does go some way to helping.</p><p>One concern (which has been stated before in this post) is the 'helping out' factor.</p><p>I have been having tough fights in the past, and been really gratefull when someone jumps in and helps out, and also on many occasions I have jumped in and helped another player that looked to be in trouble. Now, if i did this , I could ruin the players chance for loot. The other player may or may not mind, depending on their  reason for killing the mob.</p><p>One solution would be to introduce a 'Call for assistance' button.</p><p>This would work similar to 'call for help' but would not break the encounter, just broadcast a call for assisstance in local chat, and place 'needs assistance' or something similar next to the players name.</p><p>Now, other players would know that the player would appreciate help, but doesn't mind the drop in loot chance.</p>

[Suta]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>SniperKitty wrote:I still think named encounters should be auto-locked.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Or maybe a nicer method might be that if a named is red con to the one attacking it, others outside the group can't help. This would force all botters and over the top power levellers to stick with orange con or lower, which is fair.  No more taking out mobs 40 levels higher than you.</p><p> </p>

[infernus006]

<i>"One solution would be to introduce a 'Call for assistance' button.</i><p><i>This would work similar to 'call for help' but would not break the encounter, just broadcast a call for assisstance in local chat, and place 'needs assistance' or something similar next to the players name.</i></p><p><i>Now, other players would know that the player would appreciate help, but doesn't mind the drop in loot chance."</i></p><p>In most cases though I think people are better off either running or dying to break the encounter and reset the mob so they can try again and still have the full chance to recieve any loot that might drop.  Especially now that there's no spirit shards to be lost.  And I think in most cases whenever someone gets the chance to kill a named mobs that has any chance to drop any good loot, even if it's primarilty for a quest update, they still want their full chance to get the loot drop at the same time.</p><p>Anyway, it's already very easy to just make yourself a macro that does almost exactly what you are suggesting.</p><p>IMO though this update is mostly a bad idea.  Just like the change to the aggro mechanics they are suggesting that will make it so no high level people can gray mobs out for lower level people anymore.  The reason is because it actually hurts everyone else in the game more than the people it's intended to disrupt.</p><p>People who support these kinds of changes call it "sticking it to the farmers".  Well IMO it seems more like they are opposed to anyone getting any kind of help from a higher level person, whether they are actually farming for names or not.</p><div></div>

[Geekyone]

<div><blockquote><hr>Lerath_Litefoot wrote:Heh...I just had a brainstorm. Yes, this change does open up the possibility of griefing legitimate players trying to kill named mobs for loot. But it also opens up one other delicious possibility...griefing the loot farmers.Imagine the possibilities...you have a farm team that finds a new way to exploit the system by using outside help somehow. Everyone in the zone is ticked off at them taking all the names....Everyone in the zone starts following the farm team around and wailing on every mob they engage to the point where they're lucky to get a tin cluster to drop from the mobs...LOLJust how long do you think that farm team would stick around that night under those circumstances? Heh, heh....ahhh delicious revenge. =)<hr></blockquote>Brilliant!!!</div>

[Aeroslin]

Very nice job there SOE.  Since I autolock my encounters I've never had to worry about griefers anyway so to have this put in place is great.  Makes me laugh and smile and generally be happy... which is not a common occurance lately.<div></div>

[Durlinn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>infernus006 wrote:<p>People who support these kinds of changes call it "sticking it to the farmers".  Well IMO it seems more like they are opposed to anyone getting any kind of help from a higher level person, whether they are actually farming for names or not.</p><div></div><hr></blockquote>Sounds like you havent played any lower level alts lately. Ive been grouping in Stormhold with my 20 ish ranger. I havent been once when there wasnt at least a few 45+ toons in there farming with an appropriate level char. I could give a rats @$$ if you want to be power leveled by a higher char. But, if you start competing for mobs Im after with that kind of help, you better put me on ignore quickly. :smileywink:

[Zyphius]

<blockquote><hr>AbsentmindedMage wrote:Sounds like a griefing mechanism.  Someone sees another person taking a name, they jump in and do some damage and little to no loot drops.  End result people go back to selecting lock encounters.I agree autolocking should never have been removed.  Too many problems have arisen.  The people who do not want autolocking are the people who exploit to achieve things they normally couldnt.   An example,  using two groups on carpet quest 4 which is a single group encounter.  You have an outside group healing the first group.  Then you have this issue of farmers that has come about from the lack of autolocking.The system should go back to the way it was.  In other words, autolocking and there should be zone access quests for places like Enchanted Lands, Zek, etc... as before.<div></div><hr></blockquote>So, since I liked the removal of autolocking I'm an exploiter? You, sir, are a tool... I have helped many others in need since the removal of autolocking, and was thanked for it, and I too have been helped, when in need, and have thanked them for it. The removal of autolocking is working as intended... The problem is not the people who like the more real feel it has, but the people who abuse it, and I am sorry to say, is not "The people who do not want autolocking" as you so blinded and foolishly seem to think...

[Griffinclaw]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Solkarr wrote:<div></div>oh yeah... that will show the farmers, go ahead and get yourself banned for griefing them!  Farming is highly irritating and the devs are trying to curtail it, however griefing is a banable offense... have fun!<hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>Sorry Solkarr, but how is helping a "Farmer" kill a named, so that he doesnt get a drop, griefing.  If the Farmer doesnt want help killing the monster all he has to do is lock the encounter.  DOH, but he wont do that.... because then he can't farm it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Xaz]

<span><blockquote><hr>Junkisfunk wrote:<div></div><div>This was applied to the test servers today -</div><div> </div><div><span class="headline">Update Notes: January 30th, 2006<i> 1/30/2006 11:45 am PST</i></span>*** Items ***</div><div>- Item drop rates now obey the same rules as experience does when damage is contributed by people or creatures other than the group or person that engages an encounter. That is, you will be less likely to find treasure chests on creatures who players outside of your group help fight. The more damage they do, the less likely you will be to obtain the loot.</div><div> </div><div>WTG SOE! More good stuff to stick it to farmers!</div><div> </div><div>Junk</div><hr></blockquote>Real quick question.  where are these update notes posted? Thanks</span><div></div>

[Lerath_Litefo]

<blockquote><hr>In most cases though I think people are better off either running or dying to break the encounter and reset the mob so they can try again and still have the full chance to recieve any loot that might drop.  Especially now that there's no spirit shards to be lost.  And I think in most cases whenever someone gets the chance to kill a named mobs that has any chance to drop any good loot, even if it's primarilty for a quest update, they still want their full chance to get the loot drop at the same time.<hr></blockquote>In a perfect world, I would be inclined to agree with you. However, I have lost COUNT of the number of times over the life of my character that I have been fighting a very close battle with a named group, gotten all of his buddies dead and died with only say 20% left on the named. I think to myself, no problem I'll just run back and hit him again. With his buddies gone, I should easily be able to take him out now. I arrive back in place just in time to see someone else finishing off the named that I just worked so hard to weaken.I have to agree with the original poster of this idea. I think it would be a splendid idea to add a button to allow a "call for help" without breaking the encounter. In most cases where I ran into that problem, I was there killing the named to satify a quest, not for the loot alone. I would have welcomed their help to finish him off even with the diminished chance of loot. Instead I'm stuck with camping his placeholders to spawn him again and hoping I have better luck on the next attempt.

[AbsentmindedMage]

They had a call for assistance button when they had auto-locked encounters.   It is called:  Yell for Help!  It would automatically unlock the encounter and any outside person could assist you.  In fact, it would tell people where you were.  They would hear So-and-So yells for help to the north of you.    Anyway, I think the un-locked encounter move was wrong.  People who think otherwise are the ones who like to exploit it (use it to their advantage to achieve things otherwise they couldnt).<div></div>

[Lerath_Litefo]

Not entirely...yes the yell for help button unlocks the encounter, but it does so by BREAKING the encounter. When the encounter is broken, you get NO credit for killing the mob for either quest credit or loot. What we are talking about here is a button to allow you to unlock the encounter and allow assistance (with reduced chance for loot) so that you can at least get quest credit for the mob if that's what you are after.

[runamonk]

I have a question. Unless I'm mistaken the only way a person could grief a group of normal players is if the group doesn't lock the encounter. I have my auto-lock turned on by default, if this is turned on others cannot touch the mob.So my question is what am I missing here?<div></div>

[Tro]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Xaz wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Junkisfunk wrote:<div></div><div>This was applied to the test servers today -</div><div> </div><div><span class="headline">Update Notes: January 30th, 2006<i> 1/30/2006 11:45 am PST</i></span>*** Items ***</div><div>- Item drop rates now obey the same rules as experience does when damage is contributed by people or creatures other than the group or person that engages an encounter. That is, you will be less likely to find treasure chests on creatures who players outside of your group help fight. The more damage they do, the less likely you will be to obtain the loot.</div><div> </div><div>WTG SOE! More good stuff to stick it to farmers!</div><div> </div><div>Junk</div><hr></blockquote>Real quick question.  where are these update notes posted? Thanks</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I do not see this in the Test update notes so I don't know where else it could be posted...

[selch]

<div>May be it is best...</div><div> </div><div>I dont see any potential griefing, since everyone is aware of locking by now, if not will learn after first experience , so just make it locked so you don't get griefed ever.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[DarkFire9020]

<div>Okay all I a high level tank has to do is keep the aggro. The new system is still flawed on Test all you have to do is be high lvl and unequip your weapon to do the least amount of damage. So this doesn't prevent nothing except outside interference.</div>

[StormCinder]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Junkisfunk wrote:<div></div><div>This was applied to the test servers today -</div><div> </div><div><span class="headline">Update Notes: January 30th, 2006<i> 1/30/2006 11:45 am PST</i></span>*** Items ***</div><div>- Item drop rates now obey the same rules as experience does when damage is contributed by people or creatures other than the group or person that engages an encounter. That is, you will be less likely to find treasure chests on creatures who players outside of your group help fight. The more damage they do, the less likely you will be to obtain the loot.</div><div> </div><div>WTG SOE! More good stuff to stick it to farmers!</div><div> </div><div>Junk</div><hr></blockquote><p>So, the odds of getting loot decrease, but the type/level of loot is still there?  Seems like this just might make the farming worse.  If a person sets up a farm team that just decreases his chance of getting a chest to 50%, he'll still get his desired item only half as often.  So he'll just have to farm twice as much.</p><p>What about scaling the level of loot to the same percentage.  I understand it'd be extremely complicated code to implement, but seems to be more toward the intent.  Excuse my ignorance of terminology ( I AM a "low-level, long time player, casual gamer" type).  For instance--If I do 90-100% damage, I get the intended loot (Fabled, MasterIII,etc).  I do 60-90% it drops to Legendary, etc. </p><p>Like I said, kinda complicated and hopefully my low-level lack of knowledge doesn't confuse.  And a legit group might have problems.</p><p>Anyway...just a different idea.</p><p>SC</p>

[Pashta]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote:<div></div><blockquote>:smileyvery-happy:</blockquote><p>I can't remember any change that went to test and didn't make it to live.</p><hr></blockquote> Batch combines didn't.

[Screamin' 1]

<blockquote><hr>selch wrote:<div>May be it is best...</div><div></div><div>I dont see any potential griefing, since everyone is aware of locking by now, if not will learn after first experience , so just make it locked so you don't get griefed ever.</div><div></div><div></div><hr></blockquote>I have been meaning to ask this for a while. I see no way to set ancounter locking while I am solo. It is a group option, and does not seem to apply when solo. Am I missing something?

[selch]

<blockquote><hr>Screamin' 103 wrote:<blockquote><hr>selch wrote:<div>May be it is best...</div><div></div><div>I dont see any potential griefing, since everyone is aware of locking by now, if not will learn after first experience , so just make it locked so you don't get griefed ever.</div><div></div><div></div><hr></blockquote>I have been meaning to ask this for a while. I see no way to set ancounter locking while I am solo. It is a group option, and does not seem to apply when solo. Am I missing something?<hr></blockquote>Works in solo too