Incoming Aggro Change for Groups on Test different idea

[PallorTheSilent]

<div>From Blackguard..</div><div> </div><div>- Any creature that would aggro a player when solo will aggro that player regardless of the level of group members.- Creatures that would not aggro a player when solo will not aggro that player regardless of the level of group members.</div><div>This will solve nothing.</div><div>My lower level alt yet again had a quest mob stolen from him in stormhold by a level 60 and 27 combo.</div><div>I triggered the Scion at the chess board, ran in and there was a team farming lord Andros.</div><div>The 27 did damaged to the scion then the level 60 took over doing all damage and stealing aggro.</div><div>So the 27 was never in any danger but got full exp and a master chest. :smileymad:</div><div> </div><div>There is a simple way to fix this problem..... Lock ALL named mob encounters. :smileyvery-happy:</div><div> </div><div>The excuse all the level 60 and lower level teams always use is " we are helping them level "</div><div>Well by locking all named encounters they can still help someone level, just not with named/quest mobs.</div><div>This will also stop the working as intended exploit that I stated above.</div><div> </div>

[ironman2000]

<div></div><div></div>Again with the same whine PallorTheSilent? It sounds like you don't every group with anyone, because if you did then maybe you would have a chance to snag the named creatures you're complaining about others stealing from you (and no they aren't stealing, your name wasn't on the creature, just because you hit the bell at the front hallway).  All the creatures everywhere are up for grabs, if you don't like it find an instanced someplace, or go play Guild Wars, all the areas you fight in, in that game are instanced so you don't have to worrry about other people being in there looking at creatures.  Its not stealing just because you rung the bell in the front hall of stormhold, I do that all the time just to put my name on the bells. What if it was a case of the Scion aggroing the lower level, the lower level hits it out of self defense and the higher level taunted it to protect the lower level before or as you got there? <font color="#ff0000"><strong>DID YOU EVER THINK TO ASK, CAN I JOIN YOU TO KILL IT, I NEED IT FOR  A QUEST PLEASE?</strong></font>  Most people would say sure and invite you in the middle of the fight, but you probabally did not, you probabally just yelled and complained to the two and lost out on the kill so all I can say is tough luck then. And no, don't lock all named encounters, locking the epics is just fine.  Also stop already, <strong><font color="#ff0000">GM's and Devs have all said <u>THIS IS NOT AN EXPLOIT</u> </font></strong>just because you feel you're being cheated.<p>Message Edited by ironman2000 on <span class="date_text">01-29-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:23 PM</span></p>

[Giral]

<div>IronMan2000 Wrote :  <strong><font color="#ff0000">GM's and Devs have all said <u>THIS IS NOT AN EXPLOIT</u> </font></strong>just because you feel you're being cheated.</div><div> </div><div>can you tell me what thread or post the Dev's said this in please or if you have the time post a Link</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Thanks Iron</div>

[ironman2000]

<div></div>I can tell you from personal experience that in game I was playing my level 55 paladin and had a group of low 20 casters from my guild.  A GM appeared on the field which I thought was pretty strange to begin with, so I went over and told him what we were doing that they were aggroing the Majestics Griffons and I was taking aggro and we would kill them and we were trying to get Bloodtalon to spawn and we were going to kill BT the same way.  I then asked him, is there anything wrong with this and is this an exploit?  He said NO IT IS NOT AN EXPLOIT and it is perfectly acceptable to work that way.  He then had me bring the group over and he passed out cookies and eggnog to them, wished us good luck and left.  This was on Guk server, but I can't recall the GM's name.  I'll ask in guild when i'm on next time and see if anyone remembers. 

[Ares The Dark]

<div>We've seen a lot of threads recently about players <font color="#ff0000"><strong>exploiting aggro mechanics in groups in order to farm named creatures</strong> </font>for their items. This has become a lot more prevalent as of late because of the enhancements we've been making to dungeon zones as far as loot is concerned. In response to this, we're making the following changes to Test over the next few days as a solution to your concerns:- Any creature that would aggro a player when solo will aggro that player regardless of the level of group members.- Creatures that would not aggro a player when solo will not aggro that player regardless of the level of group members.That means you won't see high level characters running around through a zone with lower level players to grey out the mobs, because mobs will still aggro the lower level player as one might expect. <font color="#ff0000"><strong>One of the ways players are currently exploiting</strong> </font>the mechanic is that they're doing just that (greying out mobs), then mentoring down to a lower level player in order to get loot from named mobs (thus bypassing all the encounters on the way to the named creature and being rewarded for doing so).This change should make such behavior a lot more difficult, leaving named creatures and their treasures for players who actually work to get to them.<div></div><p><font color="#999999">Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder</font></p><p> </p><p><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=43763" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=43763</a></p><p> </p><p>It seems to Blackguard that mentoring down and helping your low level friends kill named is exploiting. HOWEVER, he does say anything about a higher level tanking out of group for a lower level players.</p><p>Hmmm, which is worse? I would have to say that tanking out of group is.</p></div>

[Magu]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>PallorTheSilent wrote:<div>There is a simple way to fix this problem..... Lock ALL named mob encounters.</div><hr></blockquote>Wrong. Locking is NOT a solution.The only valid solution is this: You don't do 50% of the damage, you don't get loot. Same as XP.</span></div>

[selch]

<div><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>PallorTheSilent wrote:<div>There is a simple way to fix this problem..... Lock ALL named mob encounters.</div><hr></blockquote>Wrong. Locking is NOT a solution.The only valid solution is this: You don't do 50% of the damage, you don't get loot. Same as XP.</span></div><hr></blockquote>That's where instead of camping dps, you will see camping priests.</div>

[Besual]

<span><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>PallorTheSilent wrote:<div>There is a simple way to fix this problem..... Lock ALL named mob encounters.</div><hr></blockquote>Wrong. Locking is NOT a solution.The only valid solution is this: You don't do 50% of the damage, you don't get loot. Same as XP.</span></div><hr></blockquote>ROFL, it's so easy to get around your "only valid solution": low level toon pulls, high level tank grabs agro and does does some (49%), low level toon(s) do 51%. Or just use a high level healer. That was the way I PLed my alt in EQ1.Auto-Locking all nameds won't stop farming to 100% but it will slow down farming much more then your sollution: level 30 tank / level 30 high DPS class will take much longer to kill level 25 named then level 30 tank and level 60 high dps class.</span><div></div>

[PallorTheSilent]

<div></div><div></div><p>ironman2000:</p><p>Again with the same whine PallorTheSilent? It sounds like you don't every group with anyone, because if you did then maybe you would have a chance to snag the named creatures you're complaining about others stealing from you (and no they aren't stealing, your name wasn't on the creature, just because you hit the bell at the front hallway).  All the creatures everywhere are up for grabs, if you don't like it find an instanced someplace, or go play Guild Wars, all the areas you fight in, in that game are instanced so you don't have to worrry about other people being in there looking at creatures.  Its not stealing just because you rung the bell in the front hall of stormhold, I do that all the time just to put my name on the bells. What if it was a case of the Scion aggroing the lower level, the lower level hits it out of self defense and the higher level taunted it to protect the lower level before or as you got there? <font color="#ff0000"><strong>DID YOU EVER THINK TO ASK, CAN I JOIN YOU TO KILL IT, I NEED IT FOR  A QUEST PLEASE?</strong></font>  Most people would say sure and invite you in the middle of the fight, but you probabally did not, you probabally just yelled and complained to the two and lost out on the kill so all I can say is tough luck then. And no, don't lock all named encounters, locking the epics is just fine.  Also stop already, <strong><font color="#ff0000">GM's and Devs have all said <u>THIS IS NOT AN EXPLOIT</u> </font></strong>just because you feel you're being cheated.</p><p> </p><p>Sounds like a prime example of someone exploiting the system for farming reasons. SoE may not call it an exploit, but we all know what it is. When someone is getting exp and treasure while a mob is not able to hit them for whatever reason used to be SoE's definition of an exploit. A shame they have lowered their standards for plat farmers. All that work they did developing the mentoring system and now people don't even bother. I am guessing the only reson they won't put this in is they have people doing it on the exchange server making extra money for the company.</p><p>Also... people are saying locking all named encounters just like epics lock won't work.</p><p>Please include a reason it won't work along with just saying it won't.</p><p>Message Edited by PallorTheSilent on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:07 AM</span></p>

[ironman2000]

<div></div><div></div>But again, did you ask them if you could join them for killing the Scion or did you just storm around and rant about them stealing your kill? I would have to guess the second one and that you didn't ask if you could join them to kill it?  I mean i've had this happen myself, but if you ask nicely, most people would say sure in that situation if it would help a person out.  I have been on both sides of that issue low level characters of mine needing a kill and someone was fighting it already, IE: Chomper for the Foomby Heritage quest, its very handy to not be locked, because if you communicate and ask, most people if they are killing something will let you join them if you need it and on the other side of the coin, when we were killing Bloodtalon and I was the person removing aggro from my lower level friends, we had another person come along looking to kill Bloodtalon, while they had already engaged him and I had pulled aggro and I told my fellow guildies to please invite the person because they needed to finish the dwarven workboots quest too, at that point I just sat there and taunted him till they let me know the person was in group with them. It was a good thing combat wasn't locked so that person could get in the group and get her quest done too. <p>Message Edited by ironman2000 on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:30 AM</span></p>

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>ironman2000 wrote:<div></div><div></div>Again with the same whine PallorTheSilent? It sounds like you don't every group with anyone, because if you did then maybe you would have a chance to snag the named creatures you're complaining about others stealing from you (and no they aren't stealing, your name wasn't on the creature, just because you hit the bell at the front hallway).  All the creatures everywhere are up for grabs, if you don't like it find an instanced someplace, or go play Guild Wars, all the areas you fight in, in that game are instanced so you don't have to worrry about other people being in there looking at creatures.  Its not stealing just because you rung the bell in the front hall of stormhold, I do that all the time just to put my name on the bells. What if it was a case of the Scion aggroing the lower level, the lower level hits it out of self defense and the higher level taunted it to protect the lower level before or as you got there? <font color="#ff0000"><strong>DID YOU EVER THINK TO ASK, CAN I JOIN YOU TO KILL IT, I NEED IT FOR  A QUEST PLEASE?</strong></font>  Most people would say sure and invite you in the middle of the fight, but you probabally did not, you probabally just yelled and complained to the two and lost out on the kill so all I can say is tough luck then. And no, don't lock all named encounters, locking the epics is just fine.  Also stop already, <strong><font color="#ff0000">GM's and Devs have all said <u>THIS IS NOT AN EXPLOIT</u> </font></strong>just because you feel you're being cheated.<p>Message Edited by ironman2000 on <span class="date_text">01-29-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:23 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Whether or not it is an "exploit" is up to the devs and producer to decide, not us, and they obviously see some problem with it as they are intstituting changes to curb this behavior. The producer even indicated that mechanics changes were a last resort, but in this case they were necessary.</p><p>Aside from whether it is an exploit, the current mechanics lead to two things:</p><ul><li>Diminishment of enjoyment of the game for some certain amount of people through perma-camping regualr nameds and camping of quest mobs.</li><li>Trivialization of content through a "no risk" scenario.</li></ul><p>However against the changes you may be, warranted changes are on the horizon, and I for one am glad for them. I don't like the group aggro solution, but hopefully they can come up with a better one such as locking named encounters, and named encounters only.</p><p> </p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:42 AM</span></p>

[ironman2000]

<div></div><div></div><p>So what i'm getting out of what Blackgard said is that a group will have to fight its way thru a dungeon to get to the named even with a high level around to help them with tougher creatures, so no more "Greying Out" the zone to get to one specific creature or spawn?  That seems very reasonable to me, I like it.  If you are going to help people get their quest creatures for stuff like heritage quests, there is no reason why you can't help them fight their way to what they are trying to get to also and help them get the xp for it.  I actually like that solution, because thats what we have been doing all along in my guild and circle of friends, we don't use the greying out technique so it won't really be a change for us.</p><p>What I really don't want to see is all named creatures locked automatically, because if someone comes along and they need the same named you are in the process of killing, you won't be able to invite them to group, causing them the headache of having to wait for the next spawn or you the inconvience of having to yell and run off the aggro (which was a pain in the [Removed for Content]).  I would rather have it set this way so in the middle of a fight, even with a named, you can give someone an invite to allow them that opportunity or if someone is in trouble with a named you can still help them out with heals or a couple of good shots on the named to lessen its HP, which are two of the main reasons I think the rules were changed to begin with. </p><p>I kind of find it funny when I come across someone that I would and could have, otherwise help out, them, having combat lock on, losing a battle with a named, when I know I could throw them a heal or smack the creature and taunt it off of them and they could have won, got the treasure, the xp and what ever loot the creature dropped. It kind of makes me think of that greedy little kid sitting in the corner saying MINE MINE MINE if someone comes near him or her and he or she hasn't been taught that everyone is not going to take stuff from you.</p><p>Message Edited by ironman2000 on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:17 AM</span></p>

[ironman2000]

<div></div><p>How about this for a fix:</p><p>Make named creatures spawn in several random spots, so you never know where exactly they are going to spawn, I think that would make it pretty hard to camp something.  Its too easy to camp now because they don't spawn in random spots, they spawn in stationary spots and everyone and their brother know where they are.  I mean if for example, say the named guy that spawns near the checker board in stormhold, is it Andros?  Anyway, what if he spawned in several spots around the room, maybe where a group of squire skeletons was or behind the wall where the slimes are?  But you don't know exactly where that spot will be, you can't camp it.</p>

[TaleraRis]

<div>I read in another thread that the whole reason for the change isn't the farming, it's that travel through places that is supposed to be challenging is being made too easy because a high level can just come and grey the area out so the person or group in question can just breeze through to the named. Plus I also read that it's diminishing the importance of group invis classes.</div><div> </div><div>Those are reasonable reasons to me.</div>

[ironman2000]

<div></div>Reasonable changes yes, but some of these guys are saying lock all named, thats not the solution.  With the new changes and if they made spawn spots random it would make it pretty tough for people to camp the named and assist with the changes they have on test.

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>ironman2000 wrote:<div></div>Reasonable changes yes, but some of these guys are saying lock all named, thats not the solution.  With the new changes and if they made spawn spots random it would make it pretty tough for people to camp the named and assist with the changes they have on test.<hr></blockquote><div>Locking named encounters WILL be a solution to the trivialization of these encounter through outside help. How could it not?</div><div> </div><div>Making spawn points random within a room? I really dont see that as helping out much, and I don't think moving them randomly within a zone is a viable idea either.</div><div> </div><div>Why go to all this trouble when a simple and easily implementable solution is available.</div><ul><li>There are flags which designate a mob as named (tracking sort)</li><li>There is a test for epics which result in a locked encounter</li><li>Add code to test for named flag and lock these encounters</li></ul><div>Straightforward, easy to implement, fixes the trivialization of out of encoutner help. Why go to any more trouble?</div><div> </div><div>P.S. My support for this solution is only because I currently view it as the most resonable one which fits the bill. If a better solution comes along which has the same net effect, but is more "open" in that it allows players to help players in a reasonable way, then I will support that one. I would love to break apart loot assingment and quest assignment, but right now, I don't see a way to do it which doesn't also open up the possibility of griefing. That is what these discusions should be about....giving the devs ideas on ways to implement a solution which solves the problem while making the greatest percentage of players happy.</div><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:08 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:21 AM</span></p>

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>TaleraRis wrote:<div>I read in another thread that the whole reason for the change isn't the farming, it's that travel through places that is supposed to be challenging is being made too easy because a high level can just come and grey the area out so the person or group in question can just breeze through to the named. Plus I also read that it's diminishing the importance of group invis classes.</div><div> </div><div>Those are reasonable reasons to me.</div><hr></blockquote><blockquote><font color="#ff0000"></font><hr>Gallenite wrote:<div><font color="#ff0000">.....</font></div><div><font color="#ff0000"><strong>As far as farming goes</strong>, there are further changes coming to loot credit assignment and treasure chances that are intended to more directly address the farming problem. </font></div><div><font color="#ff0000"></font> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">As a bit of background:  When we unlocked encounters and made loot credit work the way that it currently does on live, as many people pointed out (and as we were fully aware of), there were holes that we left there that people could take advantage of. </font></div><div><font color="#ff0000"></font> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">We wanted to see what would happen with a non-restrictive, open set of rules first.  <strong> Game mechanics changes aimed at preventing negative behaviors are a last resort.  The behaviors resulting now unfortunately warrant further action to protect legitimate players. </strong></font></div><div><font color="#ff0000"></font> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">We'll have more details soon.  Thanks for your patience.</font></div><div><font color="#ff0000"></font> </div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">Good hunting,</font></div><div><font color="#ff0000"></font> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">- Scott</font></div><hr></blockquote><p></p>

[ironman2000]

<div></div><div></div>I guess you have never been in a situation where you got to a named you needed for a quest or heritage after the fight started, Kenazeer?  If someone comes along while the fight is going on, they should be allowed to join into the group to get credit, but they can't if the encounter is locked, most named are in open areas and if you want to add people to your group you should be able to but you can't if the encoutner is locked, I can understand if with epics and the uber loots they drop.  Maybe SoE needs to re-evaluate the loot that drops from heroic named creatures and tone down their loot tables so they don't always drop master chest or even gear that people are going to want to camp?  Locking is not the answer.<p>Message Edited by ironman2000 on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:27 AM</span></p>

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ironman2000 wrote:<div></div><div></div><font color="#ffff00">I guess you have never been in a situation where you got to a named you needed for a quest or heritage after the fight started, Kenazeer?</font>  If someone comes along while the fight is going on, they should be allowed to join into the group to get credit, but they can't if the encounter is locked, most named are in open areas and if you want to add people to your group you should be able to but you can't if the encoutner is locked, I can understand if with epics and the uber loots they drop.  Maybe SoE needs to re-evaluate the loot that drops from heroic named creatures and tone down their loot tables so they don't always drop master chest or even gear that people are going to want to camp?  Locking is not the answer.<p>Message Edited by ironman2000 on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:27 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><div>Actually, I haven't, but I would have to ask, did the guy/gal who wandered up the quest mob when it was as 10% health and /tell "Hey. I needed that, can you add me real fast," really earn that update? If they were there camping/watching for that mob they would have been there <u>from the start</u>. I am not in favor of drive by quest updating, which is pretty much what you propose. If a person needing the mob was in another zone and the timer is too far along, sorry, they didnt need it bad enough to stay close. A person going through a zone who happens to come across someone else getting an update they needed isn't "entitled" to an update off that mob. Plan, prepare, and fight to get the stuff you want. There might be a rare situation which would justify adding a person to get an update after the fight has started, such as an LD, but as a matter of course it shouldn't be happening. The the negative implications of the justifiable rare occasion is not a valid reason to let named encounters (some of the hardest mobs with the best loot outside of raids) be trivialized by remaining open.</div><div> </div><div></div>

[ironman2000]

<div></div>I'm not talking about that, i'm talking about a person that happened to in the same zone, someone sent them a tell that saw us fighting and new they needed the named.  They came and asked and we invited them.  Just because you have all the time in the world to sit and camp and aren't decent enough to invite people after a fight has started doesn't mean you have to impose your ways on the rest of us, keep your encounters locked, don't let anyone in if they come late, but you know what, I feel better about myself, because if you happened along and asked to be invited during a fight, I would always say YES as long as they don't have the combat locks manditory.

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ironman2000 wrote:<div></div>I'm not talking about that, i'm talking about a person that happened to in the same zone, someone sent them a tell that saw us fighting and new they needed the named.  They came and asked and we invited them.  Just because you have all the time in the world to sit and camp and aren't decent enough to invite people after a fight has started doesn't mean you have to impose your ways on the rest of us, keep your encounters locked, don't let anyone in if they come late, but you know what, I feel better about myself, because if you happened along and asked to be invited during a fight, I would always say YES as long as they don't have the combat locks manditory.<hr></blockquote>So you were considerate enough to add them after the fight had started but not /ooc "Getting ready to kill MobX if anyone needs it?" before you started fighting it? You wouldn't have had to do the former if you had done the latter, right?

[Landiin]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kenazeer wrote:<div></div>So you were considerate enough to add them after the fight had started but not /ooc "Getting ready to kill MobX if anyone needs it?" before you started fighting it? You wouldn't have had to do the former if you had done the latter, right?<hr></blockquote>That is just silly, If you spawn/see a name you engage it before some one else does. You don't set there /ooc fixing to engage bla bla and wait, thats just asking for it to get taken. This world isn't fair, get use to it and learn to counter.</div>

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Landiin wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Kenazeer wrote:<div></div>So you were considerate enough to add them after the fight had started but not /ooc "Getting ready to kill MobX if anyone needs it?" before you started fighting it? You wouldn't have had to do the former if you had done the latter, right?<hr></blockquote>That is just silly, If you spawn/see a name you engage it before some one else does. You don't set there /ooc fixing to engage bla bla and wait, thats just asking for it to get taken. This world isn't fair, get use to it and learn to counter.</div><div></div><div><hr></div><div> </div><div>I guess you kind of missed the rhetorical point to the question. Have you followed the thread or only paged to the end?</div></blockquote><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:36 PM</span></p>

[ironman2000]

<div></div><div></div>Oh for crying out loud, when you don't agree with someone you have to resort to being so petty and nit-picking, Kenazeer? Oh and yes we did /ooc and when no one spoke up we started the fight, apparently the person we added got to the zone just after we started the fight, because a friend sent him a tell, stating that the named he was looking for was up.  This isn't the only time its happened to us either.  Peoples schedules don't always lend themselves to getting their named and I don't mind if someone comes in after the fight starts if they need the named.  Some of the long spawns like the one named orc horn blower guy near the deathfyst lookout tower is a good example.  We did this three times and /ooc for him as well, we started the fight and as we were going someone that was in another zone and had a guildmate or friend there when we did showed up and was added to the group, that happened two of the three times we needed to kill him.<p>Message Edited by ironman2000 on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:30 PM</span></p>

[Kenazeer]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>ironman2000 wrote:Oh for crying out loud, when you don't agree with someone you have to resort to being so petty and nit-picking, Kenazeer? Oh and yes we did /ooc and when no one spoke up we started the fight, apparently the person we added got to the zone just after we started the fight, because a friend sent him a tell, stating that the named he was looking for was up.  This isn't the only time its happened to us either.  Peoples schedules don't always lend themselves to getting their named and I don't mind if someone comes in after the fight starts if they need the named.  Some of the long spawns like the one named orc horn blower guy near the deathfyst lookout tower is a good example.  We did this three times and /ooc for him as well, we started the fight and as we were going someone that was in another zone and had a guildmate or friend there when we did showed up and was added to the group, that happened two of the three times we needed to kill him.<p>Message Edited by ironman2000 on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:30 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Wasnt nitpicking, or being petty, I was trying to get to the heart of the issue. So the person wasnt in the zone when you started the fight, that is different than you originally stated.</span><span>The point in asking the question was to establish one of two things:</span><ul><li>Either you started the fight because you didnt want to "lose" the mob to someone else, or</li><li>The person wasn't wasn't close enough to the initial combat that they made much of a contribution.</li></ul>In the former, the whole reason to engage is so that the mob a group "earned" ( by spawning it, being first in force, etc...) is not lost to another group who didn't "earn" it.In the latter, that person really couldn't have made very big contribution by virtue of distance, unless of course you scaled back to taunt and heal only to buy time.Do you think they have the group level requirement for combat AND quest updates for a reason? I do, and it is called not trivializing a quest or kill. In my opinion, adding members who make little or no actual contribution to a group is trivializing that update to a degree. Just my opnion, doesn't make it right or wrong, it is just the way I feel. Rewards in this game should be earned, and I would argue that that person didn't earn that update by virtue of not being prepared, not watching the spawn, not having a force on hand, etc...<span></span></div>